Bradly and Mara, I finally read all the UB quotes you provided; I love the clarity and details of this book, and appreciate your honest efforts to educate those who are sincerely seeking truth. While Flower24 provided many interesting details, I didn’t get the sense from what she shared thus far that she wants to learn much of anything from the Urantia Book. That’s why I backed away; I asked simple, logical, valid questions but received no answers to my specific questions. I would be happy to be proven wrong in this case. But one of the quotes the you Bradly provided from Paper 112 does mention “borderland transactions” that the revealer of that Paper was not permitted to reveal – what a way to pique my curiosity!
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Reincarnation
560 posts · 25 participants · started Jun 2, 2017, 2:41 PM
Hello urantia4me,
You had asked me a question about how I came to experience reincarnation, but I had answered this question in detail.What questions do you think I haven’t answered?
When I read a book or website on any subject, I think, question, and if possible verify that information. I’m not someone who accepts everything that comes my way without thinking or questioning it.
urantia4me wrote:
“But, since we are still on this forum, and since you have had such noteworthy experiences, why do YOU suppose the Urantia Book claims reincarnation is a false teaching?”
The Urantia Book mentions again and again that humans have only one life here, and the description of the formation of a soul in such a life and the described ascent from an evolutionary planet to Paradise is based on the statement that humans start here. My own experiences and observations differ from the statement that people here only have one life. But that doesn’t stop me from studying The Urantia Book. I would take my experiences described above as corroboration of some statements in The Urantia Book, e.g. that the Thought Adjuster sometimes stops the flow of thought to help his message get through.
<small>109:5.1 (1199.2)</small> Supreme and self-acting Adjusters are often able to contribute factors of spiritual import to the human mind when it flows freely in the liberated but controlled channels of creative imagination. At such times, and sometimes during sleep, the Adjuster is able to arrest the mental currents, to stay the flow, and then to divert the idea procession; and all this is done in order to effect deep spiritual transformations in the higher recesses of the superconsciousness. Thus are the forces and energies of mind more fully adjusted to the key of the contactual tones of the spiritual level of the present and the future.
Or when I saw a soul with a registration number. Basically, only someone with the same experience can understand the experiences I have described. Most of the Urantia Book is not verifiable, one must be content with belief. Both in the past and in the present time there have been people who have had and are having divine experiences. When a man prays to God or meditates on Him, he is talking to God; this is normal for a lot of people. But if a person gets an answer that can be presented in different ways, then people are irritated. The Urantia Book mentions that revelations are not only possible through transmitted scriptures, but can also occur in person.
The following quotes apply to the Kundalini rise described above; that’s how i experienced it can.
<small>103:2.1 (1130.6)</small> Religion is functional in the human mind and has been realized in experience prior to its appearance in human consciousness. A child has been in existence about nine months before it experiences birth. But the “birth” of religion is not sudden; it is rather a gradual emergence. Nevertheless, sooner or later there is a “birth day.” You do not enter the kingdom of heaven unless you have been “born again”—born of the Spirit. Many spiritual births are accompanied by much anguish of spirit and marked psychological perturbations, as many physical births are characterized by a “stormy labor” and other abnormalities of “delivery.” Other spiritual births are a natural and normal growth of the recognition of supreme values with an enhancement of spiritual experience, albeit no religious development occurs without conscious effort and positive and individual determinations. Religion is never a passive experience, a negative attitude. What is termed the “birth of religion” is not directly associated with so-called conversion experiences which usually characterize religious episodes occurring later in life as a result of mental conflict, emotional repression, and temperamental upheavals.
<small>109:5.2 (1199.3)</small> It is sometimes possible to have the mind illuminated, to hear the divine voice that continually speaks within you, so that you may become partially conscious of the wisdom, truth, goodness, and beauty of the potential personality constantly indwelling you.
<small>102:6.4 (1124.6)</small> Faith transforms the philosophic God of probability into the saving God of certainty in the personal religious experience. Skepticism may challenge the theories of theology, but confidence in the dependability of personal experience affirms the truth of that belief which has grown into faith.
<small>102:6.5 (1124.7)</small> Convictions about God may be arrived at through wise reasoning, but the individual becomes God-knowing only by faith, through personal experience. In much that pertains to life, probability must be reckoned with, but when contacting with cosmic reality, certainty may be experienced when such meanings and values are approached by living faith. The God-knowing soul dares to say, “I know,” even when this knowledge of God is questioned by the unbeliever who denies such certitude because it is not wholly supported by intellectual logic. To every such doubter the believer only replies, “How do you know that I do not know?”
Best regards
I very much appreciate your thoughtful reply, Flower24! Others on this forum will appreciate this post as well, since you found quotes that not only show that you have been reading the Urantia Book, but also that you cared enough to see which parts may touch upon your unusual experiences!
Regarding my question about your experiences you definitely answered, but I also asked in another post if you had ever read Robert Monroe’s last book, “Ultimate Journey” since you mentioned one of his other writings. And I also asked in that same post about how your experiences may relate to the main message that Jesus kept teaching wherever he went during the years of his public ministry. I asked that question partly because that same message seems predominant throughout the Urantia Book, which is recognizing & respecting God as our Spiritual Parent makes us all children of God, which should naturally and eventually lead us to recognizing & respecting our all of our fellow human beings. Both of those questions were intended to not only generate more discussion, but also to point out that the the UB warns us NOT to so easily assume that ALL of our visions/dreams are coming directly from our Thought Adjusters. The Book also states that such experiences mostly come from the subconscious mind, while messages from our Thought Adjusters seem to have specific noble purposes in mind, come from the superconscious mind, and seem to rarely reach our awareness. (So I guess I was hoping your answers to my few questions would gives us on this forum clues as to what your core interests are in relation to the UB.)
Ok, I better go for now, for I’m quite sleepy after my workday today. Take care everyone, including Flower24. And I will continue to read and write in this forum.
Bradly and Mara, I finally read all the UB quotes you provided; I love the clarity and details of this book, and appreciate your honest efforts to educate those who are sincerely seeking truth. While Flower24 provided many interesting details, I didn’t get the sense from what she shared thus far that she wants to learn much of anything from the Urantia Book. That’s why I backed away; I asked simple, logical, valid questions but received no answers to my specific questions. I would be happy to be proven wrong in this case. But one of the quotes the you Bradly provided from Paper 112 does mention “borderland transactions” that the revealer of that Paper was not permitted to reveal – what a way to pique my curiosity!
Only some aspects of “borderland transactions” are not revealed. Many aspects are revealed though. Interesting topic.
The borderlands are the touch-points of intersection and interaction (or transactions) between the material and morontial and the morontial level and spirit levels and the spirit and material levels of reality.
There are many forms of such transaction intersections described in the Papers. The Deity connections of personality and mind to all experiential beings is one example I think. Adjusters relationships with mortals are another? The brain and mind ministry of the Adjutants too? The soul and material mind?
Definitely the Guardian Angels and mortal charges. And the material death transition phase or slumber cycle and our resurrection on the Mansion Worlds. One might conclude that every morontial transition from resurrection to arrival on Paradise is a form of borderland transaction I think.
Lots of undisclosed mysteries related to such transformation periods and events. The resurrection of Jesus in morontial forms and interaction with 1000+ people is described as a great mystery and borderland transaction as I understand that to mean.
38:7.4 (422.4) The cherubim and sanobim are the routine spirit workers on the individual worlds of the systems. On a nonpersonal assignment and in an emergency, they may serve in the place of a seraphic pair, but they never function, even temporarily, as attending angels to human beings; that is an exclusive seraphic privilege.
38:7.5 (422.5) When assigned to a planet, cherubim enter the local courses of training, including a study of planetary usages and languages. The ministering spirits of time are all bilingual, speaking the language of the local universe of their origin and that of their native superuniverse. By study in the schools of the realms they acquire additional tongues. Cherubim and sanobim, like seraphim and all other orders of spirit beings, are continuously engaged in efforts at self-improvement. Only such as the subordinate beings of power control and energy direction are incapable of progression; all creatures having actual or potential personality volition seek new achievements.
38:7.6 (422.6) Cherubim and sanobim are by nature very near the morontia level of existence, and they prove to be most efficient in the borderland work of the physical, morontial, and spiritual domains. These children of the local universe Mother Spirit are characterized by “fourth creatures” much as are the Havona Servitals and the conciliating commissions. Every fourth cherubim and every fourth sanobim are quasi-material, very definitely resembling the morontia level of existence.
38:7.7 (422.7) These angelic fourth creatures are of great assistance to the seraphim in the more literal phases of their universe and planetary activities. Such morontia cherubim also perform many indispensable borderline tasks on the morontia training worlds and are assigned to the service of the Morontia Companions in large numbers. They are to the morontia spheres about what the midway creatures are to the evolutionary planets. On the inhabited worlds these morontia cherubim frequently work in liaison with the midway creatures. Cherubim and midway creatures are distinctly separate orders of beings; they have dissimilar origins, but they disclose great similarity in nature and function.
8. The Morontia Progressors
48:8.1 (557.16) From the time of graduation from the mansion worlds to the attainment of spirit status in the superuniverse career, ascending mortals are denominated morontia progressors. Your passage through this wonderful borderland life will be an unforgettable experience, a charming memory. It is the evolutionary portal to spirit life and the eventual attainment of creature perfection by which ascenders achieve the goal of time—the finding of God on Paradise.
48:8.2 (557.17) There is a definite and divine purpose in all this morontia and subsequent spirit scheme of mortal progression, this elaborate universe training school for ascending creatures. It is the design of the Creators to afford the creatures of time a graduated opportunity to master the details of the operation and administration of the grand universe, and this long course of training is best carried forward by having the surviving mortal climb up gradually and by actual participation in every step of the ascent.
48:8.3 (558.1) The mortal-survival plan has a practical and serviceable objective; you are not the recipients of all this divine labor and painstaking training only that you may survive just to enjoy endless bliss and eternal ease. There is a goal of transcendent service concealed beyond the horizon of the present universe age. If the Gods designed merely to take you on one long and eternal joy excursion, they certainly would not so largely turn the whole universe into one vast and intricate practical training school, requisition a substantial part of the celestial creation as teachers and instructors, and then spend ages upon ages piloting you, one by one, through this gigantic universe school of experiential training. The furtherance of the scheme of mortal progression seems to be one of the chief businesses of the present organized universe, and the majority of innumerable orders of created intelligences are either directly or indirectly engaged in advancing some phase of this progressive perfection plan.
48:8.4 (558.2) In traversing the ascending scale of living existence from mortal man to the Deity embrace, you actually live the very life of every possible phase and stage of perfected creature existence within the limits of the present universe age. From mortal man to Paradise finaliter embraces all that now can be—encompasses everything presently possible to the living orders of intelligent, perfected finite creature beings. If the future destiny of the Paradise finaliters is service in new universes now in the making, it is assured that in this new and future creation there will be no created orders of experiential beings whose lives will be wholly different from those which mortal finaliters have lived on some world as a part of their ascending training, as one of the stages of their agelong progress from animal to angel and from angel to spirit and from spirit to God.
196:3.34 (2097.2) The great challenge to modern man is to achieve better communication with the divine Monitor that dwells within the human mind. Man’s greatest adventure in the flesh consists in the well-balanced and sane effort to advance the borders of self-consciousness out through the dim realms of embryonic soul-consciousness in a wholehearted effort to reach the borderland of spirit-consciousness—contact with the divine presence. Such an experience constitutes God-consciousness, an experience mightily confirmative of the pre-existent truth of the religious experience of knowing God. Such spirit-consciousness is the equivalent of the knowledge of the actuality of sonship with God. Otherwise, the assurance of sonship is the experience of faith.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Flower24,
Thank you for your patience and persistence to describe your experiences and recollections of those with us here. Personal feelings and experiences have a validity and value that cannot truly be shared with others with the same impact or outcome of effect as by those who actually have the feeling and experience.
No one else can confirm or deny such personal realities either. The UB describes two problems in the understanding and the sharing of such personal experiences. John’s personal revelation/vision is given us in the UB as a very specific example of the second difficulty.
Urantia4me describes the first…the mind at mischief and its inherent and mechanical ability for imagination and invention and surrealism in both the conscious and subconscious states. We are warned about the unreliability of many such “experiences” and subsequent beliefs.
But, perhaps more importantly, in some cases like John’s the vision and personal revelation experience is quite real… but it’s understanding is not clear and not readily or easily articulated to others because it is unique and mysterious and personal and has no prior context or experience to adequately describe OR understand by others or the person who had the vision of personal revelation.
Another potential problem with personal revelation is our belief that such experience has any real meaning or value to others I think, that is as if there were second-hand revelation or revelation to the one person for the benefit of some other person. According to the Papers, personal revelation is indeed personal, to the one for the one to whom it is given.
Your sincerity and your articulation of your experiences is appreciated. Nothing wrong with sharing our beliefs, our faith, or our visions and personal experiences and personal revelation, especially in a classroom and study group setting! So thanks again!
So…a couple of issues about your experiences and understanding and description of those. The UB teaches us that the universe of universes is a very friendly place and that there are no “dark” spirits or forces to fear or have any power to effect or infect souls or invade minds. Second, no souls are, have ever been, or can ever be “lost” in the sense of being misplaced or dislocated or wandering or stuck or held back or sent to anywhere other than the resurrection halls.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
After reading the UB quotes you provided, now I see why you (Bradly) suggested that borderland transactions likely occur during (at least) every major repersonalization transition. As usual, there were also additional gold nuggets of information in those quotes, like the fact that every 4th cherubim has a quasi-material form. That reminds me of how Adamson or Cain married someone who was the last surviving descendant of Price Caligastia’s team. And that person gave birth to children, with every 4th child being invisible to humans!
If I had Flower24’s abilities, I would definitely want to meet as many of the beings mentioned in the Urantia Book as I could, starting with the Midway Creatures!
Hello urantia4me and bradly,
and the others from this forum, I will shortly answer the questions; I have something else to do now, so until then, best regards.
I haven’t read the book “ultimate journey” yet, so it will be a while before I can say anything about it.
It is very interesting and brings new aspects to read the quoted sections of the UB in the context of the questions here in the forum than just reading the UB alone, so thanks for any quotes posted here.hello bradley,
Even if the UB teaches that there are no dark forces, unfortunately my perception is different.
That’s why there are so many specialists who ensure that no soul is lost.
Hello urantia4me,
I agree with you that not all dreams come from the Thought Adjuster. I also have many normal processing dreams, but I did not report on those here. And the experience of what I experienced as a spiritual birth was not a dream, but happened during the day from the waking consciousness and my stream of thoughts was stopped several times, my mind with the thoughts was “pulled the plug” and that was it, which is one of the things that scared me. This episode made me not only say “thy will be done and not mine” but surrender to it, I had to confide in it and only after that could the kundalini (fiery, hot) blast the way and the white light (cool and refreshing) could flow freely. After that, the ability to love for all creatures increased greatly, for people, animals, plants. I started playing the piano at the age of 45 and have been doing voluntary work for many years.
I grew up in a troubled family, but after the breakthrough I was able to focus on forgiveness. It still took some time, but I could see that my parents are just the way they are, they are human beings and don’t have to be perfect, they did it as well as they could. It is possible that these experiences are meant for me personally, as bradly wrote when he mentioned john’s vision, but i still find it important to share, just to show that god cares, that it is important that the soul is freed from such injuries and it can make peace with people.
You know, the fact that your dramatic experiences (Flower24) inspired you to spontaneously say “thy will be done and not mine”, followed by a powerful Kundalini experience, which led to your decisions to forgive your parents and then do volunteer work is at least proof that your unusual experiences were well worth having! And you clearly chose a noble path afterward, which can only increase the likelihood of you proceeding to the Mansion World system sooner rather than later after your time on Earth is done. Since the UB reports that Jesus specifically mentioned that the Father wants to interact with each human on an individual level, then we can reasonably assume that such relationships (to some extent) may be uniquely tailored to each person.
It’s also possible that Flower24’s Kundalini experience was a sign that she reached AT LEAST the start of the 3rd psychic circle, in which a guardian angel was assigned to her to make sure that she does NOT lose her status in that regard, if I recall the UB correctly. Who knows, maybe she has begun the 2nd or even the 1st psychic circle?! (Does the UB indicate a close relationship with one’s Adjuster by the start of the 1st psychic circle? I can’t recall, nor do I recall if Flower24 mentioned any clear communication with her Mystery Monitor.) I suggest that because of how much more dramatic the completion of all 7 psychic circles would be – a total fiery (Phoenix/Enochian) experience leading to the immediate merging with her Thought Adjuster followed by a quick exit from this planet without experiencing death!
(In this post, purposely tried to see Flower24′ situation from her perspective, within the context of the UB. I normally do try to test the integrity of all new ideas by asking both “How could the idea be true/reliable, and how could the idea be false/unreliable?”)
Goodbye for now
Michael – One may complete the 7 Circles and not yet fuse. There is still an integration of self which may take yet longer. Also, circle-counting is neither practical or fruitful to any actual progress with the 7 Psychic Circles.
Tadpoles are tadpoles until we have lungs and legs rather than tail and gills and until we abide on top of the water instead of under!
But speculation is a fun and natural activity!!!
I will not speculate however about the personal experiences shared here by flower24. I too admire and appreciate the healing and forgiveness and mercy and service motive which resulted by that experience. Personal spiritization and faith assurance are always positive and progressive outcomes of truth, beauty, and goodness I think. The fruits of the Spirit do not depend upon the accuracy of beliefs or amount of knowledge but only on our faith experience. I offer only encouragement for the ideals, hopes, trust, and living aspirations of my fellow pilgrims!
I hope such faith dispels all fears and anxieties suffered by the children of time in God’s friendly universe.
Regarding Adjuster communications and the 7 Psychic Circles:
110:5.6 (1208.5) In varying degrees and increasingly as you ascend the psychic circles, sometimes directly, but more often indirectly, you do communicate with your Adjusters. But it is dangerous to entertain the idea that every new concept originating in the human mind is the dictation of the Adjuster. More often, in beings of your order, that which you accept as the Adjuster’s voice is in reality the emanation of your own intellect. This is dangerous ground, and every human being must settle these problems for himself in accordance with his natural human wisdom and superhuman insight.
6. The Seven Psychic Circles
110:6.1 (1209.1) The sum total of personality realization on a material world is contained within the successive conquest of the seven psychic circles of mortal potentiality. Entrance upon the seventh circle marks the beginning of true human personality function. Completion of the first circle denotes the relative maturity of the mortal being. Though the traversal of the seven circles of cosmic growth does not equal fusion with the Adjuster, the mastery of these circles marks the attainment of those steps which are preliminary to Adjuster fusion.
110:6.3 (1209.3) The psychic circles are not exclusively intellectual, neither are they wholly morontial; they have to do with personality status, mind attainment, soul growth, and Adjuster attunement. The successful traversal of these levels demands the harmonious functioning of the entire personality, not merely of some one phase thereof. The growth of the parts does not equal the true maturation of the whole; the parts really grow in proportion to the expansion of the entire self—the whole self—material, intellectual, and spiritual.
110:6.4 (1209.4) When the development of the intellectual nature proceeds faster than that of the spiritual, such a situation renders communication with the Thought Adjuster both difficult and dangerous. Likewise, overspiritual development tends to produce a fanatical and perverted interpretation of the spirit leadings of the divine indweller. Lack of spiritual capacity makes it very difficult to transmit to such a material intellect the spiritual truths resident in the higher superconsciousness. It is to the mind of perfect poise, housed in a body of clean habits, stabilized neural energies, and balanced chemical function—when the physical, mental, and spiritual powers are in triune harmony of development—that a maximum of light and truth can be imparted with a minimum of temporal danger or risk to the real welfare of such a being. By such a balanced growth does man ascend the circles of planetary progression one by one, from the seventh to the first.
110:6.5 (1209.5) The Adjusters are always near you and of you, but rarely can they speak directly, as another being, to you. Circle by circle your intellectual decisions, moral choosings, and spiritual development add to the ability of the Adjuster to function in your mind; circle by circle you thereby ascend from the lower stages of Adjuster association and mind attunement, so that the Adjuster is increasingly enabled to register his picturizations of destiny with augmenting vividness and conviction upon the evolving consciousness of this God-seeking mind-soul.
110:6.6 (1210.1) Every decision you make either impedes or facilitates the function of the Adjuster; likewise do these very decisions determine your advancement in the circles of human achievement. It is true that the supremacy of a decision, its crisis relationship, has a great deal to do with its circle-making influence; nevertheless, numbers of decisions, frequent repetitions, persistent repetitions, are also essential to the habit-forming certainty of such reactions.
110:6.18 (1211.3) The mastery of the cosmic circles is related to the quantitative growth of the morontia soul, the comprehension of supreme meanings. But the qualitative status of this immortal soul is wholly dependent on the grasp of living faith upon the Paradise-potential fact-value that mortal man is a son of the eternal God. Therefore does a seventh circler go on to the mansion worlds to attain further quantitative realization of cosmic growth just as does a second or even a first circler.
110:6.21 (1211.6) The seven circles embrace mortal experience extending from the highest purely animal level to the lowest actual contactual morontia level of self-consciousness as a personality experience. The mastery of the first cosmic circle signalizes the attainment of premorontia mortal maturity and marks the termination of the conjoint ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits as an exclusive influence of mind action in the human personality. Beyond the first circle, mind becomes increasingly akin to the intelligence of the morontia stage of evolution, the conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit of a local universe.
110:7.1 (1212.2) The achievement of the seven cosmic circles does not equal Adjuster fusion. There are many mortals living on Urantia who have attained their circles; but fusion depends on yet other greater and more sublime spiritual achievements, upon the attainment of a final and complete attunement of the mortal will with the will of God as it is resident in the Thought Adjuster.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Thank you Bradly for reminding me of what had read before but had not remembered regarding the psychic circles. Also noted was the friendly warning in the UB about treading on dangerous ground by falsely ascribing to our Adjusters ideas from our own intellect. With that in mind, I just read for the first time today a relevant section in the UB – Paper 148 section 8, the 3rd and 4th paragraphs. First mentioned is a trance prophet named Kirmeth who “had peculiar visions when in trance and dreamed fantastic dreams when his sleep was disturbed.” He is also described as a seld-deceived pretender. And mentioned 2nd is Beth-Marion who “became so fanatical that she went out of her head” and “almost drowned trying to walk on the water”! So while we appreciate what Flower24 has shared in this forum, we also need to realize that risks do exist when having fantastic perceptions. But again, notice where Flower24 is today (in a moral & spiritual sense) verses where she began in childhood. Congratulations to her!
Goodbye for now
Michael – As you suggest it is not unfriendly at a Urantia Book study group to compare and contrast all posts, opinions, and beliefs shared with the text we consider and discuss here.
The UB clearly teaches there are no lost souls or stuck or wandering souls. There are no malevolent or evil forces or spirits of darkness to fear or overcome either in this friendly universe of ours. And mortals do not become angels or any other celestial beings and do not experience the ascendant adventure and return to the world of origin as a material mortal being.
Whether true or not, these are the claims of the UB. The UB also describes why and how we might have such visions and beliefs and that having or not having those is irrelevant to the true faith experience, our Divine Assurance, and our spiritization.
Best wishes to all in the eternal adventure!
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
You well know Bradly that I greatly value the UB itself and your comments. And I naturally compare and contrast what I have learned (or blindly accepted) throughout my life. But it will take a quite a while for me to be fully convinced that neither wandering souls nor malevolent/evil forces exist. All I can say at this point is that I never personally encountered such beings, nor have I experienced anything like what Flower24 described. Thus, similar to what you pointed out in your final comments, I had already concluded a long time ago that such wild experiences must not be absolutely needed to make progress.
Goodnight all.
Michael – I think both issues are relevant to the topic here and should be considered.
Regarding evil spirits, the UB teaches that the primitive mind creates those to explain bad luck and curses and punishment from the gods, delivered in the form of sickness, accident, darkness, shortening days, floods, lightening, wild fire, locusts, famine, drought, birth defects, disease, and death itself.
This is the origin of amulets, priests, witchcraft, etc. to bribe, confuse, ward off, and protect them from such bad outcomes.
Those interested should study Papers 85-90.
These ancient fear based anxieties resulted in superstitious beliefs that still thrive today and have been a significant part of every evolutionary religion – most especially and essentially so in Christianity.
The belief in evil spirits and satanic powers and eternal suffering and temptations by some devil or another is a modern-primitive cultural and religious superstition that defies universe reality and the very nature of God and creation. According to the Papers.
Wandering souls presupposes and requires a personal abandonment of selfhood by the Guardian Angels AND the God Fragment AND the disconnection from the Deity Gravity Circuits of the Father’s Personality Gravity Circuit and Son’s Spirit Gravity Circuit and the Mother’s Mind Gravity Circuit.
That’s a lot of failure and indifference and incompetence required of Deity and celestials to actually happen, don’t you think??
Do souls wander off at death before the slumber? During the slumber?? Or are they lost in transit to the Mansion World?? Are they hiding? Or escaping something or someone? Are the Guardians searching? Or must unfused, material mortals be converted to angels to find them and save them? Save them from who or what I wonder?
Lost and wandering souls? Really?
Hmmm….
A rather peculiar superstition in my opinion. Knock on wood!!
https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/search?keys=Evil+spirits+&op=Search
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
100:5.6 (1099.4) If one is disposed to recognize a theoretical subconscious mind as a practical working hypothesis in the otherwise unified intellectual life, then, to be consistent, one should postulate a similar and corresponding realm of ascending intellectual activity as the superconscious level, the zone of immediate contact with the indwelling spirit entity, the Thought Adjuster. The great danger in all these psychic speculations is that visions and other so-called mystic experiences, along with extraordinary dreams, may be regarded as divine communications to the human mind. In times past, divine beings have revealed themselves to certain God-knowing persons, not because of their mystic trances or morbid visions, but in spite of all these phenomena.
100:5.7 (1099.5) In contrast with conversion-seeking, the better approach to the morontia zones of possible contact with the Thought Adjuster would be through living faith and sincere worship, wholehearted and unselfish prayer. Altogether too much of the uprush of the memories of the unconscious levels of the human mind has been mistaken for divine revelations and spirit leadings.
100:5.8 (1099.6) There is great danger associated with the habitual practice of religious daydreaming; mysticism may become a technique of reality avoidance, albeit it has sometimes been a means of genuine spiritual communion. Short seasons of retreat from the busy scenes of life may not be seriously dangerous, but prolonged isolation of personality is most undesirable. Under no circumstances should the trancelike state of visionary consciousness be cultivated as a religious experience.
100:5.9 (1099.7) The characteristics of the mystical state are diffusion of consciousness with vivid islands of focal attention operating on a comparatively passive intellect. All of this gravitates consciousness toward the subconscious rather than in the direction of the zone of spiritual contact, the superconscious. Many mystics have carried their mental dissociation to the level of abnormal mental manifestations.
100:5.10 (1100.1) The more healthful attitude of spiritual meditation is to be found in reflective worship and in the prayer of thanksgiving. The direct communion with one’s Thought Adjuster, such as occurred in the later years of Jesus’ life in the flesh, should not be confused with these so-called mystical experiences. The factors which contribute to the initiation of mystic communion are indicative of the danger of such psychic states. The mystic status is favored by such things as: physical fatigue, fasting, psychic dissociation, profound aesthetic experiences, vivid sex impulses, fear, anxiety, rage, and wild dancing. Much of the material arising as a result of such preliminary preparation has its origin in the subconscious mind.
100:5.11 (1100.2) However favorable may have been the conditions for mystic phenomena, it should be clearly understood that Jesus of Nazareth never resorted to such methods for communion with the Paradise Father. Jesus had no subconscious delusions or superconscious illusions.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Wow Bradly, I had read those sections of the UB but had forgotten that it clearly states where so much of those wild experiences come from! And your logical questions prove that the angels and Adjusters would not be so careless to lose souls. Thanks again for the education! And yes, I laughed at your “knock on wood” reference ????
By the way, my view of this page 38 in this forum suddenly shows all the headings in Spanish whereas all the prior page headings still appear in English. Was just wondering how that occurred. Bye for now.
Greetings Michael!!
Glad to help.
But I want to be very clear here. I do not wish to challenge the fact and meanings of flower24’s experience. The UB does give us fair warning of certain dangers of the material mind at mischief and describes the potential sources and causes of self delusion. However, the UB also clearly teaches that “picturizations” are a tool of Adjusters for personal revelation, and that the Adjuster has more and more success with this format as the mortal becomes more spiritized and mature and progresses through the 7 Circles.
The Papers describe John’s visions for a very specific purpose I think. John’s visions were real but his descriptions were garbled and distorted by his own lack of experience, context, and references (and of course, his were edited and rewritten by priests). He could not truly communicate his personal revelation and picturizations in any meaningful way.
I am not claiming and do not know or believe that flower24’s experience is not real or invalid in any way. I know her descriptions of some aspects certainly contradict the Revelation. But I am impressed by the sincerity and motive and aroma of the stories shared here by flower24!!
110:6.5 (1209.5) The Adjusters are always near you and of you, but rarely can they speak directly, as another being, to you. Circle by circle your intellectual decisions, moral choosings, and spiritual development add to the ability of the Adjuster to function in your mind; circle by circle you thereby ascend from the lower stages of Adjuster association and mind attunement, so that the Adjuster is increasingly enabled to register his picturizations of destiny with augmenting vividness and conviction upon the evolving consciousness of this God-seeking mind-soul.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
hello bradley,
bradly wrote:
“I am not claiming and do not know or believe that flower24’s experience is not real or invalid in any way. I know her descriptions of some aspects certainly contradict the Revelation. But I am impressed by the sincerity and motive and aroma of the stories shared here by flower24!!”
thanks for this comment; I would like to add that this special experience made forgiveness with my parents possible in the first place (God helped me there) and that such experiences happen, among other things, so that more compassion, mercy and tolerance is brought to people. That this ” birth experience with kundalini ” went so “wildly” as you put it is because in my mortal mind the resistance to relinquishing control for such moments was too strong. I then came across a text in the university library that really touched me; the thing with the neighbor actually happened to me afterwards.
100:4.4 (1098.1) In physical life the senses tell of the existence of things; mind discovers the reality of meanings; but the spiritual experience reveals to the individual the true values of life. These high levels of human living are attained in the supreme love of God and in the unselfish love of man. If you love your fellow men, you must have discovered their values. Jesus loved men so much because he placed such a high value upon them. You can best discover values in your associates by discovering their motivation. If someone irritates you, causes feelings of resentment, you should sympathetically seek to discern his viewpoint, his reasons for such objectionable conduct. If once you understand your neighbor, you will become tolerant, and this tolerance will grow into friendship and ripen into love.
100:4.5 (1098.2) In the mind’s eye conjure up a picture of one of your primitive ancestors of cave-dwelling times—a short, misshapen, filthy, snarling hulk of a man standing, legs spread, club upraised, breathing hate and animosity as he looks fiercely just ahead. Such a picture hardly depicts the divine dignity of man. But allow us to enlarge the picture. In front of this animated human crouches a saber-toothed tiger. Behind him, a woman and two children. Immediately you recognize that such a picture stands for the beginnings of much that is fine and noble in the human race, but the man is the same in both pictures. Only, in the second sketch you are favored with a widened horizon. You therein discern the motivation of this evolving mortal. His attitude becomes praiseworthy because you understand him. If you could only fathom the motives of your associates, how much better you would understand them. If you could only know your fellows, you would eventually fall in love with them.
100:4.6 (1098.3) You cannot truly love your fellows by a mere act of the will. Love is only born of thoroughgoing understanding of your neighbor’s motives and sentiments. It is not so important to love all men today as it is that each day you learn to love one more human being. If each day or each week you achieve an understanding of one more of your fellows, and if this is the limit of your ability, then you are certainly socializing and truly spiritualizing your personality. Love is infectious, and when human devotion is intelligent and wise, love is more catching than hate. But only genuine and unselfish love is truly contagious. If each mortal could only become a focus of dynamic affection, this benign virus of love would soon pervade the sentimental emotion-stream of humanity to such an extent that all civilization would be encompassed by love, and that would be the realization of the brotherhood of man.
Best regards
I’m glad Flower24 reminded us of those UB quotes. When first read those, I thought about how true they have been in my life, especially in the past few years. A better understanding of my parents’ marriage problems, and a better understanding of my own marital issues helped me not to remain brokenhearted or angry as I have watched both marriages crumble in several parallel ways! Btw, the stages of grief that Elizabeth Kubler Ross identified years ago was quite similar to my own natural way processing of the symbolic “death” of both marriages. Eventually, I accepted both failed marriages, which helped me to maintain friendly relationships with each person involved. Goodnight for now.
