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Reincarnation

560 posts · 25 participants · started Jun 2, 2017, 2:41 PM

  1. I have always found this section very enlightening and inspiring too.

     

    44:8.2 (507.7) There are three possible sources of special human ability: At the bottom always there exists the natural or inherent aptitude. Special ability is never an arbitrary gift of the Gods; there is always an ancestral foundation for every outstanding talent. In addition to this natural ability, or rather supplemental thereto, there may be contributed the leadings of the Thought Adjuster in those individuals whose indwelling Adjusters may have had actual and bona fide experiences along such lines on other worlds and in other mortal creatures. In those cases where both the human mind and the indwelling Adjuster are unusually skillful, the spirit artisans may be delegated to act as harmonizers of these talents and otherwise to assist and inspire these mortals to seek for ever-perfecting ideals and to attempt their enhanced portrayal for the edification of the realm.

    44:8.3 (508.1) There is no caste in the ranks of spirit artisans. No matter how lowly your origin, if you have ability and the gift of expression, you will gain adequate recognition and receive due appreciation as you ascend upward in the scale of morontia experience and spiritual attainment. There can be no handicap of human heredity or deprivation of mortal environment which the morontia career will not fully compensate and wholly remove. And all such satisfactions of artistic achievement and expressionful self-realization will be effected by your own personal efforts in progressive advancement. At last the aspirations of evolutionary mediocrity may be realized. While the Gods do not arbitrarily bestow talents and ability upon the children of time, they do provide for the attainment of the satisfaction of all their noble longings and for the gratification of all human hunger for supernal self-expression.

    44:8.4 (508.2) But every human being should remember: Many ambitions to excel which tantalize mortals in the flesh will not persist with these same mortals in the morontia and spirit careers. The ascending morontians learn to socialize their former purely selfish longings and egoistic ambitions. Nevertheless, those things which you so earnestly longed to do on earth and which circumstances so persistently denied you, if, after acquiring true mota insight in the morontia career, you still desire to do, then will you most certainly be granted every opportunity fully to satisfy your long-cherished desires.

    44:8.5 (508.3) Before ascending mortals leave the local universe to embark upon their spirit careers, they will be satiated respecting every intellectual, artistic, and social longing or true ambition which ever characterized their mortal or morontia planes of existence. This is the achievement of equality of the satisfaction of self-expression and self-realization but not the attainment of identical experiential status nor the complete obliteration of characteristic individuality in skill, technique, and expression. But the new spirit differential of personal experiential attainment will not become thus leveled off and equalized until after you have finished the last circle of the Havona career. And then will the Paradise residents be confronted with the necessity of adjusting to that absonite differential of personal experience which can be leveled off only by the group attainment of the ultimate of creature status—the sevenMichael posts above:  th-stage-spirit destiny of the mortal finaliters.

    Michael posts above:  “No wonder the UB refers to the work of the Thought Adjusters as “cross-planet pollination”, which of course is a comparison to how bees pollinate flowers & other plants.”

    Me here:  Michael…please provide a reference for your “pollination” quotation.  Thanks.

    Your pursuit of explanations for the common belief in reincarnation has led here to many theories and lots of text posted to consider.  Further evidence of how keenly mind seeks understanding of reality and the role of supposition and speculations in that pursuit.

    I think you are mixing two different phenomenon here now.   The first is the widespread belief in reincarnation which has one set of explanations and the second is a far more limited phenomena of supposed recollection of former material lives, most often reported in some planet-of-origin (Earth) costume, character, and prior historical time period.

    I find belief in the first to be easily explained and understood by the natural “survival” instinct of all life, most especially minded life connected to Spirit.

    https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/search?keys=Survival&op=Search

    And of course are the hundreds of thousands of years of on planet teachings to people about Havona, Mansonia, resurrection, and the eternal adventure destiny of mortals.  Reincarnation is simply a logically reasoned human distortion of universe reality.

    Supposed memories of former material lives is something else and quite distinct I think.  Statistically, the number of those who claim such specific memories are an infinitesimal subset of and compared to those who believe in reincarnation.  Those memory claims have their own origins and explanations I think.

    In any case, I am glad to be here and am learning much by our studies on the topic of reincarnation and mortal resurrection!

    ;-)

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  2. I always appreciate your feedback, Bradly, which often leads me to either clarify or reconsider my thoughts on reincarnation & related topics. Along those lines, I will provide the specific part of the UB in which I found that phrase “cross-planet pollination” (or something along those lines) as soon as I locate it again. Lately I have been reading so much of the UB, significantly jumping back & forth at times that it may take me a while to find where exactly where I saw it. But I honestly did see the concept if not the exact phrase, for when I saw it, I immediately looked online to learn more about how bees pollinate, for I wanted to better understand why the UB made such a reference to the Thought Adjusters. I think that understanding bee pollination may shed more light on the work of Thought Adjusters, as well as shed more light on the human misperception of reincarnation. Bye for now.

  3. Yes…I too thought it familiar.  Nothing for “pollination ” or “pollinate”.  Finally thought of the term used – “fertilization”!

    109:4.5 (1198.8) I have observed a Thought Adjuster indwelling a mind on Urantia who has, according to the records on Uversa, indwelt fifteen minds previously in Orvonton. We do not know whether this Monitor has had similar experiences in other superuniverses, but I suspect so. This is a marvelous Adjuster and one of the most useful and potent forces on Urantia during this present age. What others have lost, in that they refused to survive, this human being (and your whole world) now gains. From him who has not survival qualities, shall be taken away even that experienced Adjuster which he now has, while to him who has survival prospects, shall be given even the pre-experienced Adjuster of a slothful deserter.

    109:4.6 (1199.1) In a sense the Adjusters may be fostering a certain degree of planetary cross-fertilization in the domains of truth, beauty, and goodness. But they are seldom given two indwelling experiences on the same planet; there is no Adjuster now serving on Urantia who has been on this world previously. I know whereof I speak since we have their numbers and records in the archives of Uversa.

    Personally, I don’t think this is the source of human memories of alleged or purported prior human lives…but it does demonstrate the value of experience in gaining wisdom and effectiveness…or expertise, which does result in the universal and personal distribution of truth, beauty, and goodness by all who abide in time, including the Adjusters.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  4. Well done, Bradly – you found the phrase in the UB that caused me to read about bee pollination:-) Yes, I think we agree that even that section in the UB does NOT indicate reincarnation for humans. Although I must say that I am surprised how often the UB describes how systems on Urantia and other evolutionary worlds were originally planned/designed, but then the UB says that Urantia has often proved to demonstrate exceptions to those normally functioning systems, in part due to the Lucifer Rebellion. So I would NOT be surprised to learn someday that the very small percentage of human examples of reincarnation claims were actually humans who accidentally (mis)perceived a little more of the normally hidden work of Adjusters, Angels, & Artisans. Also the UB refers to Urantia as an experimental planet.

  5. Of 7 trillion material, evolutionary worlds there are 700 billion that are considered “decimal” worlds where there is certain flexibility from bio norms where the Life Carriers are exploring more “experimental” options.  We are assured this is very controlled and within parameters considered normal and predictable.  However, predictable is itself a flexible term!!  Evolution is always somewhat unpredictable, especially regarding timing and sequencing.  Evolution, like freewill itself, is an endless chain of potential realized and also new potential created by the prior realization of potential.  Each world of the 7 trillion is very unique in evolution and also in the outcomes of patterns and potentials.

    Universe reality is a celebration of personalized and unique experiential evolution of potential.  Most people understand the theory of bio evolution and that of creationism.  But few realize that evolution IS creationism.  Far fewer understand the evolutionary nature of society, culture, civilization, and the totality of humanity.  And yet, even fewer might understand that the universe itself is evolutionary as is heaven and the local and super universes and even Deity itself.  All of time and space is experiential and evolutionary…which some might consider experimental(?).  One of ten bio worlds is considered experimental but aren’t they all really????  In a way….yes!!

    Please note that all variables and variations have one singular hope and objective….improvements to prior experience!!  The Life Carriers are also experiential beings with freewill whose knowledge, skill, and wisdom is evolutionary!!

    36:2.12 (397.12) The Second World is the life-designing sphere; here all new modes of life organization are worked out. While the original life designs are provided by the Creator Son, the actual outworking of these plans is intrusted to the Life Carriers and their associates. When the general life plans for a new world have been formulated, they are transmitted to the headquarters sphere, where they are minutely scrutinized by the supreme council of the senior Life Carriers in collaboration with a corps of consulting Melchizedeks. If the plans are a departure from previously accepted formulas, they must be passed upon, and endorsed by, the Creator Son. The chief of Melchizedeks often represents the Creator Son in these deliberations.

    36:2.13 (397.13) Planetary life, therefore, while similar in some respects, differs in many ways on each evolutionary world. Even in a uniform life series in a single family of worlds, life is not exactly the same on any two planets; there is always a planetary type, for the Life Carriers work constantly in an effort to improve the vital formulas committed to their keeping.

    36:2.14 (398.1) There are over one million fundamental or cosmic chemical formulas which constitute the parent patterns and the numerous basic functional variations of life manifestations. Satellite number one of the life-planning sphere is the realm of the universe physicists and electrochemists who serve as technical assistants to the Life Carriers in the work of capturing, organizing, and manipulating the essential units of energy which are employed in building up the material vehicles of life transmission, the so-called germ plasm.

    36:2.15 (398.2) The planetary life-planning laboratories are situated on the second satellite of this world number two. In these laboratories the Life Carriers and all their associates collaborate with the Melchizedeks in the effort to modify and possibly improve the life designed for implantation on the decimal planets of Nebadon. The life now evolving on Urantia was planned and partially worked out on this very world, for Urantia is a decimal planet, a life-experiment world. On one world in each ten a greater variance in the standard life designs is permitted than on the other (nonexperimental) worlds.

    57:8.7 (661.1) 900,000,000 years ago witnessed the arrival on Urantia of the first Satania scouting party sent out from Jerusem to examine the planet and make a report on its adaptation for a life-experiment station. This commission consisted of twenty-four members, embracing Life Carriers, Lanonandek Sons, Melchizedeks, seraphim, and other orders of celestial life having to do with the early days of planetary organization and administration.

    57:8.8 (661.2) After making a painstaking survey of the planet, this commission returned to Jerusem and reported favorably to the System Sovereign, recommending that Urantia be placed on the life-experiment registry. Your world was accordingly registered on Jerusem as a decimal planet, and the Life Carriers were notified that they would be granted permission to institute new patterns of mechanical, chemical, and electrical mobilization at the time of their subsequent arrival with life transplantation and implantation mandates.

    57:8.9 (661.3) In due course arrangements for the planetary occupation were completed by the mixed commission of twelve on Jerusem and approved by the planetary commission of seventy on Edentia. These plans, proposed by the advisory counselors of the Life Carriers, were finally accepted on Salvington. Soon thereafter the Nebadon broadcasts carried the announcement that Urantia would become the stage whereon the Life Carriers would execute their sixtieth Satania experiment designed to amplify and improve the Satania type of the Nebadon life patterns.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  6. Hello again Bradly! I finally logged in and read your detailed reply. Always quality replies from you. Just wanted you to know I’m still reading & still learning (almost daily) from the UB. And I still recommend it to whoever I think would be interested in it, including the former director of the Maryland branch of MUFON as well as one the executives (& prolific authors) with the A.R.E in VA beach. I also briefly contacted the UB Reader Services some months ago & appreciated Bob’s comments. He mentioned the term “repersonalization” that is used in the UB to describe what we humans experience (as opposed to reincarnation). I don’t yet fully understand the difference; I assume that is in the context of awakening in the Mansion World system after our physical deaths on Earth (and our educational adventures beyond the Mansion World system. Oh, and without going into much detail, I have done much better at not only understanding parts of the UB that previously were fuzzy to me, but also I have been able to connect the dots regarding other sources of compatible info from some of my other books, some of which I already referenced in this forum. While some info is compatible, nothing quite compares to the clarity & details in the UB.

    Btw, I actually prefer reading the physical UB, but only reading from the online source when I don’t have the physical book in front of me. I jumped around a lot during my reading of the UB over the past 2 years but recently felt the need to start reading from the very beginning, which now makes much more sense to me.

    Well, it’s late so I must sleep now. Ciao.

  7. Greetings Michael!!!

     

    So good to hear from you again.  So happy to hear your discovery adventure in the Papers continues.

     

    So…a couple of things.  First of all, I have found over the years that I definitely find new meanings within text I have read before.  I think that has to do with learning more points of context and an enlarging perspective which causes greater illumination and insight and connectivity between concepts and reference points.

    There are advantages to both forms of study – lineal, sequential reading and also topical, key word driven, topical study.  The lineal reading is excellent because the text tends to create questions and deliver answer sequentially and incrementally from the front of the book to the end.  It is written in a way that expands perspective and provides space for the many enlarged concepts presented.

    The topical approach immediately demonstrates multiple angles of  perspective, of identical concepts but often in different context that helps the student appreciate those topics from a wider spectrum of context.  More angles of view as well as more panoramic views and also wide angle and telescopic views of the same concepts throughout the text provide a texture and dimensional aspect to our appreciation and reality perspective.

    I read only from hard copy for 30 years and without any topical resource except a Concordex, book index and the Paramony, a cross reference book with the Bible.  Both were very helpful.  But search engines have really elevated my appreciation of the depth and breadth of concepts and context available to a serious student today!!

    Definitions.  “Incarnate” is always a celestial becoming more material as I understand it – from the morontia form to the physical-material form.

    Reincarnation is the myth of multiple incarnations as mortal (or even animal) on the same planet (or other material planets even) and may include some form of progressive (or regressive) enlightenment or wisdom.  But the UB calls such beliefs primitive superstition based on a very false reality perspective.

    “Repersonalization” is simply the reconfiguration of the mortal soul with its morontia body and memories/mind and personality on the mansion worlds.  Happens only once per customer!!

    Search The Urantia Book | Urantia Book | Urantia Foundation

    The myth of reincarnation may originate from the true and factual story of our progressive and incremental spiritization as mortal ascenders.  Once we have a morontia body, we experience 570 progressive transformations from world to world as become less and less material and more and more spirit.

    48:1.5 (542.2) The Morontia Power Supervisors are able to effect a union of material and of spiritual energies, thereby organizing a morontia form of materialization which is receptive to the superimposition of a controlling spirit. When you traverse the morontia life of Nebadon, these same patient and skillful Morontia Power Supervisors will successively provide you with 570 morontia bodies, each one a phase of your progressive transformation. From the time of leaving the material worlds until you are constituted a first-stage spirit on Salvington, you will undergo just 570 separate and ascending morontia changes. Eight of these occur in the system, seventy-one in the constellation, and 491 during the sojourn on the spheres of Salvington.

    48:1.6 (542.3) In the days of the mortal flesh the divine spirit indwells you, almost as a thing apart—in reality an invasion of man by the bestowed spirit of the Universal Father. But in the morontia life the spirit will become a real part of your personality, and as you successively pass through the 570 progressive transformations, you ascend from the material to the spiritual estate of creature life.

    Me here:  The morontial experience is everything between the purely physical/material and the pure spirit reality.

    0:5.6 (8.6) These qualities of universal reality are manifest in Urantian human experience on the following levels:

    0:5.7 (8.7) 1. Body. The material or physical organism of man. The living electrochemical mechanism of animal nature and origin.

    0:5.8 (8.8) 2. Mind. The thinking, perceiving, and feeling mechanism of the human organism. The total conscious and unconscious experience. The intelligence associated with the emotional life reaching upward through worship and wisdom to the spirit level.

    0:5.9 (8.9) 3. Spirit. The divine spirit that indwells the mind of man—the Thought Adjuster. This immortal spirit is prepersonal—not a personality, though destined to become a part of the personality of the surviving mortal creature.

    0:5.10 (8.10) 4. Soul. The soul of man is an experiential acquirement. As a mortal creature chooses to “do the will of the Father in heaven,” so the indwelling spirit becomes the father of a new reality in human experience. The mortal and material mind is the mother of this same emerging reality. The substance of this new reality is neither material nor spiritual—it is morontial. This is the emerging and immortal soul which is destined to survive mortal death and begin the Paradise ascension.

    0:5.11 (9.1) Personality. The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality. The personality is the unique bestowal which the Universal Father makes upon the living and associated energies of matter, mind, and spirit, and which survives with the survival of the morontial soul.

    0:5.12 (9.2) Morontia is a term designating a vast level intervening between the material and the spiritual. It may designate personal or impersonal realities, living or nonliving energies. The warp of morontia is spiritual; its woof is physical.

     

    Back with more later!!  ;-)

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  8. Thanks for the clarifications, Bradly. I had forgotten about some of the quotes regarding repersonalization, most of which I had read. And I too have used the topical search feature on the Urantia website – among other things, that is where I learned that Thor was a real Cro-Mag person???????? Bye for now.

  9. Yes…so many people of legend and myth and the ancient warriors and gods from the pages of time had true origins and great stories!!

    I believe Thor was of mixed and diluted Andite blood and conquered the blue people.

    80:5.1 (893.3) The tribes of northern Europe were being continuously reinforced and upstepped by the steady stream of migrants from Mesopotamia through the Turkestan-south Russian regions, and when the last waves of Andite cavalry swept over Europe, there were already more men with Andite inheritance in that region than were to be found in all the rest of the world.

    80:5.2 (893.4) For three thousand years the military headquarters of the northern Andites was in Denmark. From this central point there went forth the successive waves of conquest, which grew decreasingly Andite and increasingly white as the passing centuries witnessed the final blending of the Mesopotamian conquerors with the conquered peoples.

    80:5.3 (893.5) While the blue man had been absorbed in the north and eventually succumbed to the white cavalry raiders who penetrated the south, the advancing tribes of the mixed white race met with stubborn and protracted resistance from the Cro-Magnons, but superior intelligence and ever-augmenting biologic reserves enabled them to wipe the older race out of existence.

    80:5.4 (893.6) The decisive struggles between the white man and the blue man were fought out in the valley of the Somme. Here, the flower of the blue race bitterly contested the southward-moving Andites, and for over five hundred years these Cro-Magnoids successfully defended their territories before succumbing to the superior military strategy of the white invaders. Thor, the victorious commander of the armies of the north in the final battle of the Somme, became the hero of the northern white tribes and later on was revered as a god by some of them.

    80:5.5 (893.7) The strongholds of the blue man which persisted longest were in southern France, but the last great military resistance was overcome along the Somme. The later conquest progressed by commercial penetration, population pressure along the rivers, and by continued intermarriage with the superiors, coupled with the ruthless extermination of the inferiors.

    80:5.6 (893.8) When the tribal council of the Andite elders had adjudged an inferior captive to be unfit, he was, by elaborate ceremony, committed to the shaman priests, who escorted him to the river and administered the rites of initiation to the “happy hunting grounds”—lethal submergence. In this way the white invaders of Europe exterminated all peoples encountered who were not quickly absorbed into their own ranks, and thus did the blue man come to an end—and quickly.

    80:5.7 (893.9) The Cro-Magnoid blue man constituted the biologic foundation for the modern European races, but they have survived only as absorbed by the later and virile conquerors of their homelands. The blue strain contributed many sturdy traits and much physical vigor to the white races of Europe, but the humor and imagination of the blended European peoples were derived from the Andites. This Andite-blue union, resulting in the northern white races, produced an immediate lapse of Andite civilization, a retardation of a transient nature. Eventually, the latent superiority of these northern barbarians manifested itself and culminated in present-day European civilization.

    80:5.8 (894.1) By 5000 B.C. the evolving white races were dominant throughout all of northern Europe, including northern Germany, northern France, and the British Isles. Central Europe was for some time controlled by the blue man and the round-headed Andonites. The latter were mainly situated in the Danube valley and were never entirely displaced by the Andites.

    Me here:  I think perhaps, these are the Lake Dwellers of Switzerland and Austria who were pushed to the Atlantic seaboard and are known today as the Celts – my ancestral tribe!

     

    https://www.bing.com/images/searchq=the+lake+dwellers+celts&qpvt=the+lake+dwellers+celts&form=IGRE&first=1&tsc=ImageBasicHover

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

     

    Different search engines offer different tools and approaches to topical searches.

    Here at this site:

    https://urassoc.arko.nyc/search/

     

    The Foundation site:

    https://urassoc.arko.nyc/search/

     

    And at TruthBook:

    https://truthbook.com/search2/direct.cfm/

     

    Best wishes!!

     

    :-)

     

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  10. Hello Bradly! I did read your last clarifying comments regarding Thor & the Cro-Magnons and your Celtic ancestry. I was told years ago that I have partial ancestry to the Celtics thru one of my parents. It is very nice when the UB gives info that we can cross-reference with historical info.

    I am still almost daily ready the UB, having reached the halfway point after reading the beginning – what a great book this is! So many topics addressed! For the most part, the UB answers most all the questions I have as I read. I read recently about our Thought Adjusters essentially functioning as our superconsciousness, which I found very useful in making connections to other sources I’ve read regarding what some refer to as our true Higher Selves. I also better understand why the UB warns us to NOT so easily assume dreams, visions and other sudden realizations are coming from Divine sources. The subconscious is such a mixed bag of tricks & treats!

    There is one subject I wish I understood better – the Midway Creatures. Of course I have read all that the UB contains, but it is still somewhat fuzzy. I wish I could see a clear connection to what other sources have mentioned regarding them. Since U have a Celtic ancestry, have you considered which legendary beings from folklore correspond to the Midway Creatures? Would modern technology such as cameras that can see the infrared or UV part of the light spectrum, or thermal imagining devices, detect their presence? I ask you knowing that I am likely asking unanswerable questions.

    Until next time, take care and a late happy new year wish!

  11. Greetings Michael!!!!

    So good to hear your voice at the Forum again!

    Glad to hear your studies continue.   Well done.  You are approaching my favorite Papers in the middle of the book on the personal religious experience and then those on the Adjusters and The Supreme – Papers 100-118.

    The Midwayers are so unique and important to the evolutionary worlds of time and space.   Only on those very rare worlds where the Planetary Prince enters rebellion are there rebellious midwayers, who can create many interesting and intentional forms of mischief.

    I do think ours did result in many legends and folk tales of fairies and goblins and gods and other assorted reality-interlopers (so to speak).  With only loyal midwayers among us these past 2000 years, modern people may now dismiss such legends as simply fairy tales invented by primitive minds.

    I’m not so sure about that.

    Midwayers share the destiny of finality and the Corps of Finality but are on the evolutionary worlds into the Light and Life epochs before released for their ascendant adventures.  Fascinating!!

    Please ask anything you wish and comment on your discovery of the UB freely!!

    Bradly. ;-)

     

    Here’s a link to the keyword search for “midwayers”:

    https://urassoc.arko.nyc/search/?zoom_sort=2&zoom_query=Midwayers+&zoom_per_page=100&zoom_and=0&zoom_cat%5B%5D=-1

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  12. when a world is settled in light and life then there’s no more need for reincarnation, until then reincarnation is helpful for most mortals.

    52:7.2 (598.5) The Teacher Sons come in groups to the spiritualizing worlds. A planetary Teacher Son is assisted and supported by seventy primary Sons, twelve secondary Sons, and three of the highest and most experienced of the supreme order of Daynals. This corps will remain for some time on the world, long enough to effect the transition from the evolutionary ages to the era of light and life—not less than one thousand years of planetary time and often considerably longer. This mission is a Trinity contribution to the antecedent efforts of all the divine personalities who have ministered to an inhabited world.

    I am confused. TUB states in several places that the idea of reincarnation is absurd. How would one explain, then, the work of those such as Brian Weiss, Dolores Cannon, and Michael Newton? (Not to mention the religions of Buddhism and Hinduism). I have an idea on the issue, but I would first like to see some discussion on it to get some other ideas I may not have considered. Then I would like to share my thoughts on the subject.

  13. Thanks as always for your thoughtful feedback, Bradly! I assume from the UB that if we could see the smaller Midwayers, they would likely appear much like humanoid creatures, since the smaller ones were born to one human man & one human woman, though both of those humans had some unusual DNA considering their ancestors. By the time Jesus (aka – our local universe Son of God Michael) began his ministry, we find in the UB that the Midwayers were responsible for the apparent “miracles” ascribed to Jesus. In that context, I do wonder if they are the same as the legends of various elemental beings (perhaps elves), since they used available elements to turn water into wine at the wedding feast.

    Regarding the taller, older line of Midwayers, should we also assume they were humanoid in physical appearance as well as humanoid prior to their physical appearance?! Also I wonder if those who were/are invisible to human eyes are capable of shape-shifting, or at least the ability to project however they want to physically appear to humans, as the UB seems to indicate of the Melchizedek who appeared during the time and place of the biblical Abraham.

    And having now finished half of the UB, I can’t stress enough the importance of reading all the UB, starting from the beginning, for it logically builds upon the info that proceeds it. Also, the UB always seems to address all reasonable questions that one may logically ask as they read it, but not necessarily in the chapters that one would expect! That’s why I find that every sentence in every chapter must be read before comparing & contrasting with other sources of info, such as what I was doing when I first joined this forum.

    So now let me try to address the comments by Rich & Ragathea regarding reincarnation, taking the UB into greater consideration this time. Rich, are you somehow interpreting that UB quote as a reference & confirmation of reincarnation? If yes, you may want to re-read it within the context of that chapter, for that quote does not seem related to your prior comment regarding the assumed usefulness of reincarnation. The quote has more to do with the various teacher personalities remaining on an assigned planet for as many generations of human students as needed. Repersonalization (which is confirmed by the UB) is technically different than reincarnation (which Ragathea correctly says is absurd as far as the UB is concerned). The UB says we only experience one lifetime on our planet of origin, which for us is this Earth.

    Repersonalization may be easier to grasp after you read the part in the UB about Adam & Eve having to transition from their original, advanced bodies (that were common to their planet of origin) to less advanced physical bodies (common to this Earth). Though they ultimately died physically, they were latet allowed by Son of God Michael to transition (aka -repersonalize) to more advanced bodies that are common to the planet on which they now reside. Do you see the difference?

    Ragathea, welcome back! Correct me if I am mistaken, but didn’t you already make some thoughtful comments near the start of this forum about Dolores Cannon, Michael Newton, Brian Weiss, as well as Buddhism & Hinduism? By the way, I have read books from each of those authors, all of which were quite interesting! I am not as familiar with Hinduism & Buddhism, but the UB seems to properly address the topic of reincarnation (and other topics) as taught in the context of those 2 great religions. Regarding the way Cannon, Weiss, and Newton explain reincarnation, the UB does not seem to directly address their version of reincarnation. HOWEVER, we can logically apply to those modern authors/researchers what the UB DOES say about the way in which some well-intended individuals (such as the apostles John & Paul) misinterpreted SOME of their own real visions that their Thought Adjusters allowed them to have.

    So, I’m suggesting that those modern researchers/authors may have indeed perceived higher realities but only in a limited, skewed ways within the framework of their personal, imperfect minds, for our Thought Adjusters do NOT force us to perfectly perceive/understand greater truths all at once, just like we can’t (or rather shouldn’t) force ourselves or anyone else to learn more than what they are willing & able to learn as they individually mature in this lifetime. Thus, what may appear to some of us as reincarnation taking place on this Earth may simply & likely be some aspects of the Mansion World system that we have truly perceived but misinterpreted to some degree, and that is only natural.

    As an example, compare the story of Adam & Eve in the Bible with the story of Adam of Eve in the UB – big difference in perception, but understandable considering the mental framework common to more primitive humans thousands of years ago (who could not have fully grasped the story of Adam and Eve as found in the UB) versus the greater mental framework of modern humans, though we also will seem somewhat primitive to the humans who will live a thousand years from now.

    I look forward to reading your replies, Rich, Ragathea, and Bradly! Take care.

  14. Hi urantia4me,

    Many thanks for sharing such a splendid perspective. You make me anticipate similar depth of insight from you into any of the many topics the UB presents!

    Nigel

     

  15. Thank you Nigel! It really helped me to read the UB from the start; there is such good logic & structure embedded throughout the UB, and I am still amazed by the volume of details in the book, some of which were indepedently confirmed several years later by researchers in their respective fields of study. (By the way, I now can better understand why you, Nigel, appreciate the UB’s details & clues regarding the formation & properties of outer space. Did you ever read in the UB something regarding the speed of light slowing down at times?? I ask because I recently learned from an astronomy website that plasma in outer space affects the speed of light, causing it to slow down a little bit. But that same site indicated that gravitational waves move constantly at the speed of light.

    For example, regarding the section on reptiles, the UB states that “the largest of the dinosaurs originated in western North America…buried throughout the Rocky Mountain regions…” Not long after I had read that section, I saw a TV documentary that mentioned how the greatest deposit of T-Rex bones were found in the 1970s in the Rocky Mountain region. Of course, we know that the UB was published in 1955 – more than 20 years before that discovery, for the information found in the UB Papers was being generated during the 1930s & 1940’s, if I recall correctly.

    Additionally, the documentary indicated that most paleontologists were hesitant to believe the theory by one of their colleagues that birds evolved from reptiles, but if I recall correctly, fossils of hollow-boned baby dinosaurs were found in the 1990s; many, if not all, modern birds have hollow bones, thus the evolutionary connection between birds and reptiles was, at that time, finally established. But again, the UB confirmed that fact decades earlier in Paper 60, Sections 1 and 2:

    “But earlier reptiles were smaller, carnivorous, and walked kangaroolike on their hind legs. They had hollow avian bones and subsequently developed only 3 toes on their hind feet, and many of their fossil footprints have been mistaken for those of giant birds…But these flying pterosaurs were not the ancestors of the true birds of subsequent ages. They evolved from the hollow-boned leaping dinosaurs…”

    Truly the UB is a genuine revelation!

  16. Hello again Bradly,

    You are right about the Papers I will soon be reading; I actually read those chapters prior to reading from the start of the UB, but for that reason, I know I didn’t have the full context at that time & thus I struggled to understand some parts, so this time around, it should be even more enlightening. However, I did take a short break to read a much shorter book on ideal human health – still reading that one.

    Hi Ragathea (& Rich),

    Please feel free express your ideas regarding the authors you mentioned and the religious belief systems you mentioned; I love learning, even if what I learn may not fit with my current ideas & beliefs. I still have books that I read by those same authors, and from others like them – only now I found it necessary for me to use much of my free time to carefully read and ponder the UB.

    Regarding those authors’ ideas on reincarnation, and how they (and the numerous people they interviewed) may not have the full context of what they have learned so far, consider the possibility that in the Mansion World system, part of our experiential learning may at times consist of life simulations that seem so realistic that those in the afterlife may mistakenly conclude they are reincarnating back on their planets of origin.

    For example, in his book “Far Journeys”, self-proclaimed out-of-body pioneer Robert Monroe reported that during one of his “journeys”, he wanted to see God, but in order for his request to be granted, he had to pass simulated tests, which seemed totally real to him, as if he kept reliving his life on Earth, but only after he successfully passed his tests did he realized those past lives were not real – only very convincing simulations. I’m NOT saying that the UB confirms what I just wrote; I’m only saying something like that MAY be occurring in the Mansion World system. Can you, Ragathea (& Rich), see how easy it would be for those modern researchers (or the ones they hypnotized) to misinterpret simulations as being actual reincarnations? Notice how very real our nighttime dreams can seem, until we wake up.

    On that note, I will say, “Goodnight everyone”.

  17. Hi urantia4me,

    You asked:

    “Did you ever read in the UB something regarding the speed of light slowing down at times??”

    That’s a question whose time has come! For an observer at rest in some frame, that observer defines a “speed of light“ relative to the electrical permittivity and magnetic permeability of the space or medium through which that light is passing.

    This is where UB cosmology plays a wild card. One of its unique features is that all standard model matter is built from arrangements of clusters of ultimatons; and that these ultimatons condense within a distribution of primordial force-charge (segregata).

    So one of the (many!) implications of UB cosmology is that galaxies exist within massive invisible disks of ultimatons, which in turn exist within isolated halos of primordial force-charge.

    Thus this model begs the question: is the electrical permittivity and magnetic permeability of an island of segregata the same as the permittivity and permeability of the (more or less) quiescent regions between these islands of segregata?

    If so, then we might predict that the speed of light through the space between galaxies will be different to the speed of light through the space within a galaxy; which would be a very exciting discovery for next.gen astronomers :good:

    Nigel

  18. That is quite interesting, Nigel! I think I recall reading at least some of the parts of the UB that you referenced, though some of what I read in the UB went over my head at that time, so I’m glad you explained it enough for me to understand it better.

    Even before I asked you that question about the speed of light, the impression I got from the UB that there are definite differences between organized/developed space and unorganized/undeveloped space that may correspond to the differences between the Actuality and the Potentiality of The Universal Father.  Also, the UB paper that covers the Seraphim Transport mentioned that while Seraphim can travel up to 3 times the speed of light, they normally travel less than that due to areas of space that require them to move more slowly; I suspect their slowing down at times is related to what you shared in you last post.

    Also, I wonder if what you mentioned regarding the differences between space inside a galaxy versus the space between galaxies somewhat corresponds on a smaller scale to the various areas of space within our heliosphere versus interstellar space. (I’m thinking specifically of the travels of Voyager 1 & Voyager 2 when I ask that last question.)

    I guess I will go for now, as it is late at night where I am in the US. Nice to communicate with you Nigel, for I enjoy the subject of astronomy! By the way, what do you think are the “dark islands of space” mentioned in the UB?

    Best regards, Michael

  19. urantia4me wrote:

    “By the way, what do you think are the ‘dark islands of space’ mentioned in the UB?“

    Hi Michael,

    I give “dark islands” my best shot in this YouTube video: Part 4C – Exploding Dark Islands (v2).

    For easier reference, here’s the script for that video: PDF Script for Part 4C

    For more background, here’s a playlist for the full set .

    Nigel

  20. Hahaha!!!

     

    Rich, so many things in the UB you disagree with and for so long too!!

     

    Michael…you may wish to not engage this one.

    Trouble with a capital T.

     

    Mods here allow his foolishness and piracy.   Too bad.

    Other sites have terminated his posting and hijacking privileges for good cause.

    Habitually disruptive and unresponsive.

    :-(

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

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