Alain, Bradly, et al
Would you care to comment about past life regression services, past life, and whether these phenomena are similar or in some way linked?
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Reincarnation
560 posts · 25 participants · started Jun 2, 2017, 2:41 PM
Duplicate post…..
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Alain, Bradly, et al Would you care to comment about past life regression services, past life, and whether these phenomena are similar or in some way linked?
From wiki: Past life regression is a technique that uses hypnosis to recover what practitioners believe are memories of past lives or incarnations. Past-life regression is typically undertaken either in pursuit of a spiritual experience, or in a psychotherapeutic setting. Most advocates loosely adhere to beliefs about reincarnation,<sup id=”cite_ref-Skepdic_1-0″ class=”reference”>[1] though religious traditions that incorporate reincarnation generally do not include the idea of repressed memories of past lives.<sup id=”cite_ref-Cordon_2-0″ class=”reference”>[2]
The technique used during past-life regression involves the subject answering a series of questions while hypnotized to reveal identity and events of alleged past lives, a method similar to that used in recovered memory therapy.
In the modern era, it was the works of Madame Blavatsky, co-founder of the Theosophical Society, which brought it a new found popularity, especially in the West. French educator Allan Kardec also researched into past life regression in The Spirits Bookand Heaven and Hell. Past life regression therapy has been developed since the 1950s by psychologists, psychiatrists and mediums. The belief gained credibility because some of the advocates possess legitimate credentials, though these credentials were in areas unrelated to religion, psychotherapy or other domains dealing with past lives and mental health. Interest in the phenomenon started due to American housewife Virginia Tighe reporting and recounting the alleged memories of a 19th-century Irish woman named Bridey Murphy; later investigation failed to support the existence of such a woman and the memories were attributed to Tighe’s childhood during which she spent time living next to an Irish immigrant with great similarity to the character she described.<sup id=”cite_ref-Skepdic_1-1″ class=”reference”>[1]
Past life regression is widely rejected as a psychiatric treatment by clinical psychiatrists and psychologists. A 2006 survey found that a majority of a sample of doctoral level mental health professionals rated “Past Lives” therapy as “certainly discredited” as a treatment for mental or behavioral disorders.<sup id=”cite_ref-Norcross2006_7-0″ class=”reference”>[7]
Me here: I feel I have already expressed my own understanding of false memories, especially those allegedly recovered and documented by hypnosis and memory-construction specialists. Quackery. The verification of fiction….for a price or for reputation.
The very state of hypnosis is to create a suggestive state. It works. Does it extract or implant? Both. Either. Neither. Depends on the objective and the hypnotist. A splendid and effective technique for generating, embellishing, and/or confirming false memories.
If one believes the UB then they know there are no and have been no past lives ever lived by anyone. So there is another explanation to the phenomenon. False memories are common and frequent in human experience. What more is needed to explain the false belief in false memories?
Wiki again: Hypnosis is a human condition involving focused attention, reduced peripheral awareness, and an enhanced capacity to respond to suggestion.<sup id=”cite_ref-Lynn_SJ_2015_2-0″ class=”reference”>[2]
There are competing theories explaining hypnosis and related phenomena. Altered state theories see hypnosis as an altered state of mind or trance, marked by a level of awareness different from the ordinary state of consciousness.<sup id=”cite_ref-3″ class=”reference”>[3]<sup id=”cite_ref-4″ class=”reference”>[4] In contrast, nonstatetheories see hypnosis as, variously, a type of placebo effect,<sup id=”cite_ref-:0_5-0″ class=”reference”>[5]<sup id=”cite_ref-:1_6-0″ class=”reference”>[6] a redefinition of an interaction with a therapist<sup id=”cite_ref-7″ class=”reference”>[7] or form of imaginative role enactment.<sup id=”cite_ref-8″ class=”reference”>[8]<sup id=”cite_ref-9″ class=”reference”>[9]<sup id=”cite_ref-10″ class=”reference”>[10]
During hypnosis, a person is said to have heightened focus and concentration.<sup id=”cite_ref-Segi_11-0″ class=”reference”>[11]Hypnotized subjects are said to show an increased response to suggestions.<sup id=”cite_ref-12″ class=”reference”>[12]Hypnosis usually begins with a hypnotic induction involving a series of preliminary instructions and suggestion. The use of hypnotism for therapeutic purposes is referred to as “hypnotherapy“, while its use as a form of entertainment for an audience is known as “stage hypnosis“. Stage hypnosis is often performed by mentalists practicing the art form of mentalism.
Hypnosis for pain management “is likely to decrease acute and chronic pain in most individuals.”<sup id=”cite_ref-Barrett2004_13-0″ class=”reference”>[13] The use of hypnosis in other contexts, such as a form of therapy to retrieve and integrate early trauma, is controversial within the medical or psychological mainstream. Research indicates that hypnotizing an individual may aid the formation of false memories,<sup id=”cite_ref-14″ class=”reference”>[14] and that hypnosis “does not help people recall events more accurately.”<sup id=”cite_ref-15″ class=”reference”>[15]
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Another spammed post…help please.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Oh boy Mark !
Would you please let us know what exactly you are talking about? Why not give us your definition of past life regression services and past life. We can delve into that a bit I guess.
Thank you Bradly and Alain and Mark for the discussion and UB quotes! I particularly like/value the quote from Paper 109:6.2 which explains how “past-life memories” can sometimes exist WITHOUT validating “reincarnation”! Thought Adjusters are always attempting to fuse with their assigned mortals (such as we humans on our physical planet Earth); however, if the TA’s assigned human refuses to continue with his/her ascension career upon his/her one-time death transition from physical planet Earth, then that TA is (at that point) free to become the TA of another previously-unassigned human. So theoretically, that process could happen MANY times without being true reincarnation for ANY of those humans who had been sequentially assigned to a particular TA. Yet, there is NOTHING other than intense opinions that Bradly (or anyone else) has logically presented in this reincarnation forum that prevents/forbids any Thought Adjuster from allowing any particular actions/thoughts/emotions (from previously assigned humans who subsequently chose extinction after their physical deaths) to purposely flow through the mind of any newly-assigned human.
Bradly, you particularly seem unable to perceive any usefulness for such previously-expressed actions/thought/emotions that are mistakenly perceived by some humans as THEIR past-life memories, but even if we agree that every human born is a “clean slate”, why would you insist that Thought Adjusters also act as “clean slates” each and every time?! That would be a TERRIBLY INEFFICIENT way for Thought Adjusters to influence evolution on this planet! And why, Bradly, would you be so unwilling to learn from other people’s successes and/or failures if your TA decided you could benefit from someone else’s past-life memories?! Are you really suggesting that you can ONLY truly learn from your own personally-made successes and failures?! With that kind of limited logic, then one would have to assume that when you were a child, the ONLY way for YOU to have known that it was UNSAFE to NOT look both ways before crossing a busy street was for YOU to carelessly walk into just such a busy street and get struck by a vehicle! You know that is unreasonable – you know you have already learned SO MUCH from the successes and/or failures of OTHERS! NO ONE lives life by ONLY learning from their own successes and failures!
Now before anyone thinks of accusing me of using such an absurd example, realize that I was only using hyperbole to show that it is actually quite reasonable to think that the memories of others who have lived before us could be quite useful to us who are living in the present. And who better than our Thought Adjusters to determine which of those past human expressions and experiences would be most beneficial to have in our conscious and/or subconscious minds?! All that I have shared in this post doesn’t necessarily mean that EVERYONE has a Thought Adjuster who had previously assigned humans – only that the Urantia Book shows us that there is an amazing range of possibilities that exist for us humans to evolve in a variety of ways beyond the limiting opinions too often expressed in this forum! (By the way, Bradly, you keep emphasizing your adherence to science – as if others like myself are not adhering to science simply because I say there are impressive cases that can make one wonder about reincarnation?! I find it funny how every person I have ever met in life who emphasizes how much they live according to science rather than superstition often has had excuses why they ignored science in other areas of their lives. For example, I used to work with an atheist who was well-versed in the latest scientific discoveries and could quote from several atheistic scientists, while at the same time he would take every opportunity to bash the beliefs of mainstream Christians. However, he also knew from the latest scientific research that smoking was bad for his health, but he smoked anyway! In Sociology, that is called Cognitive Dissonance. Like you have said in the past, we humans seem like funny monkeys sometimes, although monkeys would not foolishly smoke
Until next time…and I will keep reading the UB in the meantime…
OK – I just re-read something within Paper 109:4.6 that refutes the theoretical idea I posted in my last post – that none of the Thought Adjusters have not been on this planet Earth, however the following quote does seem to go along with the idea that Alain recently posted regarding the TA’s gaining many experiences from mortals on many other worlds prior to teaming up with us on planet Earth:
109:6.1 (1200.1) Adjusters never fail; nothing worth surviving is ever lost; every meaningful value in every will creature is certain of survival, irrespective of the survival or nonsurvival of the meaning-discovering or evaluating personality. And so it is, a mortal creature may reject survival; still the life experience is not wasted; the eternal Adjuster carries the worth-while features of such an apparent life of failure over into some other world and there bestows these surviving meanings and values upon some higher type of mortal mind, one of survival capacity. No worth-while experience ever happens in vain; no true meaning or real value ever perishes.
So I apologize to Bradly – I should have just kept reading all the posts. Today I also saw the UB quotes regarding mystic experiences and our night dreams – how they often drift into the somewhat unreliable subconscious mind rather than into the reliability of the superconscious mind. Thus, I also see how info gathered via hypnosis – which generally accesses the subconscious rather than the superconscious – cannot always be a reliable source to provide info, at least as it pertains to the topic of reincarnation.
So it seems the only non-UB source of info regarding the topic of reincarnation that I have found thus far that corresponds to the UB is still the last chapter in book 3 of “Conversations With God” which explains how simultaneous realities may be sometimes misperceived by human minds as reincarnation. I would also say the wealth of research/documentation from a few hundred years ago provided by Emmanuel Swedenborg still seems to correspond fairly well with the UB’s teachings on reincarnation.
Have a good week everyone
Greetings Michael….and All!!
A few comments:
First, if I have not been clear about this I hope to be very specific now – my opinions and beliefs are merely that, my opinions and beliefs. My opinions have no importance or value, I do not think, to anyone else…or should not anyway. We are not really gathered here to share personal opinions or beliefs except as those compare, contrast, and relate to the text of the Urantia Papers. I do not think my opinions or beliefs are more accurate or more valuable than any others’ opinions and beliefs. Nor do I think that opinions or beliefs are reliable reflections of universal fact and truth in any case…no matter their human sources (including both scientists and priests). I have long agreed with the UB, even before finding and reading the UB, that neither the accuracy OR the falseness of human knowledge or belief determines anyone’s faith or salvation or personal religious experience and soul growth. There are some very ignorant and unlearned saints among us!! And some really well educated fools too!!
So….what I hope to discuss here is the contents and teachings of the Papers. About reincarnation and all other matters brought forth for discussion and consideration here. Not comparisons to my own beliefs which are mere opinions and perspectives of another tadpole among tadpoles after all.
Next…the UB makes it very clear that unreligious scientist and the unscientific religionist are both equally blind to universe reality and share a very false perspective, albeit polarized in opposition and equal distance from both fact and truth. Neither blind radical is a reliable source for anything approaching truth. The UB is also quite specific and redundant in teaching us that religious experience and truth realization and Circle Progress and wisdom CANNOT be imparted one to another…it cannot be given or loaned or borrowed or stolen or purchased. Knowledge of facts can and are imparted from and to each other. But personal evolution and experiential wisdom and spiritization are not functions of the memories or the experiences or the circumstances or situations or choices or consequences of any other person or being. Or so I understand the teachings and text to say.
Alain has introduced a very interesting suggestion and proposition related to the Adjuster’s prior endowment experiences on other worlds that they utilize for their ministry and mission of soul growth and potential eternal fusion with other mortal beings and those few celestials who become humanized ascenders on the path to the Corps of Finality service. 109:6.2 certainly does NOT say that Adjuster’s transfer mortal memories from one mortal to any other mortals. Neither have I yet found any text which suggests that they do or even might or explains how such memories would ever relate to those alleged prior-life memories claimed by some and implanted by mediums and hypnotists…none of which I have EVER read or heard to by the lives of aliens in alien worlds. Now THAT would be something of great interest indeed.
109:6.2 (1200.2) As related to fusion candidates, if a Mystery Monitor is deserted by the mortal associate, if the human partner declines to pursue the ascending career, when released by natural death (or prior thereto), the Adjuster carries away everything of survival value which has evolved in the mind of that nonsurviving creature. If an Adjuster should repeatedly fail to attain fusion personality because of the nonsurvival of successive human subjects, and if this Monitor should subsequently be personalized, all the acquired experience of having indwelt and mastered all these mortal minds would become the actual possession of such a newly Personalized Adjuster, an endowment to be enjoyed and utilized throughout all future ages. A Personalized Adjuster of this order is a composite assembly of all the survival traits of all his former creature hosts.
Me here: As to science, consider a study of the topic in the text which teaches us that it is science and reason and logic that deliver humanity from superstition and barbarity and the bondage of primitivism. To promote primitivism and superstition as more desirable or functional than science is to ignore reality itself. Understanding of reality is innate and inherent to our very being and science is that functional methodology which helps discover, explain, and understand both causes and effects – and to effectively manage and manipulate the material universe in beneficial ways according to the laws of physics and in God’s creation as is part of the Divine purpose and plan. God is the First scientist and all of creation is a reflection of the science of creation and evolution!!
(59.3) 4:4.7 In science, God is the First Cause; in religion, the universal and loving Father; in philosophy, the one being who exists by himself, not dependent on any other being for existence but beneficently conferring reality of existence on all things and upon all other beings. But it requires revelation to show that the First Cause of science and the self-existent Unity of philosophy are the God of religion, full of mercy and goodness and pledged to effect the eternal survival of his children on earth.
(192.6) 16:6.10 In the local universe mind bestowals, these three insights of the cosmic mind constitute the a priori assumptions which make it possible for man to function as a rational and self-conscious personality in the realms of science, philosophy, and religion. Stated otherwise, the recognition of the reality of these three manifestations of the Infinite is by a cosmic technique of self-revelation. Matter-energy is recognized by the mathematical logic of the senses; mind-reason intuitively knows its moral duty; spirit-faith (worship) is the religion of the reality of spiritual experience. These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions. But when they become unified, they produce a strong character consisting in the correlation of a factual science, a moral philosophy, and a genuine religious experience. And it is these three cosmic intuitions that give objective validity, reality, to man’s experience in and with things, meanings, and values.
(192.7) 16:6.11 It is the purpose of education to develop and sharpen these innate endowments of the human mind; of civilization to express them; of life experience to realize them; of religion to ennoble them; and of personality to unify them.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Keyword “science”:
https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/search?keys=Science&op=Search
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
We discover much upon re-reading papers 107 to 112.
I like to speculate that our TAs make great use of their past experiences and that what we may interpret as past life experience would be imprints within our superconscious level (the soul) of the fact values recorded from the Adjuster from his past experiences with past inhabited humans. When, and if we may be priviledge to have such visions, humans take for granted that they have actually been there before. They are right in a certain sense cause their Adjuster was there. We just confuse our own experience with the one our Adjuster provides.
On behalf of those following along, thanks for this interesting discussion
Especially a big thank-you to Bradly for continually pointing us into the text, so that we might get a glimpse of so many things from the revelators’ point of view.
Nigel
Thank you Nigel!!
We discover much upon re-reading papers 107 to 112. I like to speculate that our TAs make great use of their past experiences and that what we may interpret as past life experience would be imprints within our superconscious level (the soul) of the fact values recorded from the Adjuster from his past experiences with past inhabited humans. When, and if we may be priviledge to have such visions, humans take for granted that they have actually been there before. They are right in a certain sense cause their Adjuster was there. We just confuse our own experience with the one our Adjuster provides.
Very interesting Alain! So many people falsely believe in pre-existence of the soul or the personality we originate here during our first and only material life. It appears you believe (or speculate anyway) that this belief originates by the function and act of our TA’s who impart visions to us. Have you had such visions yourself? Have you found any examples of such a claim in the UB? There are real visions described…not one of which includes any flashbacks or implanted visions of previous lives of any other mortal.
Does our Adjuster provide us an experience? You say we “confuse our own experience with the one our Adjuster provides.” This sounds as if people have two different realities and experiences. Do you have some supporting text for this claim? I am unaware of such a teaching in the Papers. My experience is my own experience I think. My dual nature is my own too. As are my decisions. And it is by my decisions and more decisions and ever more decisions that I create my own experience and circle progress and identity and selfhood.
Definitely do the TA’s gain their own skills and wisdom by every experience….they too are experiential as well as from their existential source. But until fusion, I understand, they minster to mind and accompany us through the hammer and anvil of experience but they do not ever manipulate or determine our choices and freewill. We do benefit personally I am sure by the experience of our Adjuster but nowhere can I find any mention of what you claim above – that the Adjuster provides us an experience or “imprint” our soul with “fact values”. And what are “fact values” please? It appears you are claiming that we gain experiential wisdom not by our own experience but by the experience of others and of our TA’s transfer to soul? Is this accurate?
Interesting claim if I understand it. I am engaged in a discussion and discovery elsewhere about this very topic – Experiential Wisdom – where the teachings are being examined about wisdom that is transferred from one being to another and wisdom which is innate by origin and wisdom which is experiential. I can say I’ve not found anything which describes the transference of wisdom from any being to any other being in all of time and space…but I am keenly interested to find that. I hope to learn from your posted text those teachings. I am studying Papers 107-112 again now and believe your suggestion a good one!! I look forward to the transference of wisdom related text and the definition “fact values”. By the way….do you think the TA’s impart “facts” of universe reality to mind? Or primarily revelatory truth for our truth assurance progress in the Spirit? Are there facts we need to grow soul?
Thanks for being here Alain! I know you hope to support Michael’s search for the source and value of the common belief in pre-lives and recurring material lives discussed here. My only hope is that the Papers and their teachings are clearly articulated in that discussion. Visions of other people’s lives on other worlds delivered by our TA is a most interesting belief itself I think.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
- Post removed…duplicate….see above!
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
urantia4me wrote:
OK – I just re-read something within Paper 109:4.6 that refutes the theoretical idea I posted in my last post – that none of the Thought Adjusters have not been on this planet Earth, however the following quote does seem to go along with the idea that Alain recently posted regarding the TA’s gaining many experiences from mortals on many other worlds prior to teaming up with us on planet Earth: 109:6.1 (1200.1) Adjusters never fail; nothing worth surviving is ever lost; every meaningful value in every will creature is certain of survival, irrespective of the survival or nonsurvival of the meaning-discovering or evaluating personality. And so it is, a mortal creature may reject survival; still the life experience is not wasted; the eternal Adjuster carries the worth-while features of such an apparent life of failure over into some other world and there bestows these surviving meanings and values upon some higher type of mortal mind, one of survival capacity. No worth-while experience ever happens in vain; no true meaning or real value ever perishes. So I apologize to Bradly – I should have just kept reading all the posts. Today I also saw the UB quotes regarding mystic experiences and our night dreams – how they often drift into the somewhat unreliable subconscious mind rather than into the reliability of the superconscious mind. Thus, I also see how info gathered via hypnosis – which generally accesses the subconscious rather than the superconscious – cannot always be a reliable source to provide info, at least as it pertains to the topic of reincarnation. So it seems the only non-UB source of info regarding the topic of reincarnation that I have found thus far that corresponds to the UB is still the last chapter in book 3 of “Conversations With God” which explains how simultaneous realities may be sometimes misperceived by human minds as reincarnation. I would also say the wealth of research/documentation from a few hundred years ago provided by Emmanuel Swedenborg still seems to correspond fairly well with the UB’s teachings on reincarnation. Have a good week everyone.
Apology certainly and gladly accepted!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me repeat and reiterate something I frequently post on these topical threads to reduce the tensions created by opinions in opposition!!
I do not mean to and it would be completely inappropriate to claim my personal beliefs are correct and any other’s opinion are wrong because of any dispute or disagreement such differing opinions may reflect.It is my hope and intention to compare, contrast, and confirm all beliefs to the contents of the Papers we study here together. I believe the authors have written that which they intend for us to take and study as a literal presentation and that they intentionally wrote what they mean and purposefully mean what they wrote…literally. The UB is not a code book or fantasy or metaphorical code book requiring the decipher of priests, the super intellect or educated, or religious or scientific scholar….although all of those should also enjoy a literal reading of the text!
So at no time and in no way should anything I post be taken as a declaration of fact or truth…it is intended as a statement of my own understanding of the contents of the text and the teachings of its authors only! While I have personally, eventually, and finally come to believe the claims of the authors, it is not necessary or important that any other student does so. We all come to the text with our own beliefs and perspective and philosophy…some of which will be confirmed and validated by the Papers and some which will conflict and even contradict the Papers. Our personal disagreement with or disbelief of the Papers or any part of the teachings is no sin or even vice! And is no obstacle to spiritualization and religious experience and the eternal adventure!
It is merely disagreement with or disbelief in the claims of the authors of the Papers. So be it. So let it be. No harm. No foul. Play on!
So….when I engage any opinion that I find in contrast to, conflict with, or contradictory of the Papers and I point out such contradiction, it is NOT a claim of right and wrong!! It is only an attempt to allow the Papers to speak for themselves and be clearly articulated in their own contents, intention, and meaning. And it is certainly true that some of the contents of the UB are unusual and complex and new and unique enough to defy a uniform understanding among students. That’s why discussion and discovery and study are good! We all learn by such discourse. I know I certainly do.Now….the authors of the UB know truthseekers well and also knows those minds who grip tightly to their preconceptions and beliefs to the degree that belief transforms into intractable and entrenched prejudice. Let me repeat that every single person who ever read the UB comes to it with preconception and beliefs which contradict the text. Not one student or believer ever even once read the UB without preconception, conflict, and contradictory beliefs. Some are able to set aside disbelief and suspend prejudice in the pursuit of learning and enlightenment and truth. Others are not. Some arrive with a “pet evil” or misbehavior they are in love with and unwilling to relinquish or set aside.
163:2.7 (1802.3) Almost every human being has some one thing which is held on to as a pet evil, and which the entrance into the kingdom of heaven requires as a part of the price of admission. …
So…we must all be careful of our pet evils and prejudices…even me….hahahahaha!!
100:1.2 (1094.4) …….The chief inhibitors of growth are prejudice and ignorance.
Disagreement with the Papers is merely disagreement with the Papers. Prejudice is always an obstacle to growth. The UB is best read with an open mind and heart and a hope for the discovery and realization of truth. And I have found truth is where you find it and it can be found almost everywhere you look for it!! Which certainly does not make everything one reads or believes true!! Truth discernment takes work and reason and prayer….along with that open mind and heart.
100:4.1 (1097.5) Religious living is devoted living, and devoted living is creative living, original and spontaneous. New religious insights arise out of conflicts which initiate the choosing of new and better reaction habits in the place of older and inferior reaction patterns. New meanings only emerge amid conflict; and conflict persists only in the face of refusal to espouse the higher values connoted in superior meanings.
100:4.2 (1097.6) Religious perplexities are inevitable; there can be no growth without psychic conflict and spiritual agitation. The organization of a philosophic standard of living entails considerable commotion in the philosophic realms of the mind. Loyalties are not exercised in behalf of the great, the good, the true, and the noble without a struggle. Effort is attendant upon clarification of spiritual vision and enhancement of cosmic insight. And the human intellect protests against being weaned from subsisting upon the nonspiritual energies of temporal existence. The slothful animal mind rebels at the effort required to wrestle with cosmic problem solving.
PS Post got spammed and repost got scrambled!! Oh well….carry on….. = (
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Hi Bradly and everyone,
Indeed my thoughts derive from speculation on my part in my quest to discover more. I am also careful not to convince myself or others with my ideas.
110:4.3 (1207.3) Certain abrupt presentations of thoughts, conclusions, and other pictures of mind are sometimes the direct or indirect work of the Adjuster; but far more often they are the sudden emergence into consciousness of ideas which have been grouping themselves together in the submerged mental levels…
110:5.5 (1208.4) It is extremely dangerous to postulate as to the Adjuster content of the dream life. The Adjusters do work during sleep, but your ordinary dream experiences are purely physiologic and psychologic phenomena.
But I did, in a dream state, live a very strange experience. This only happened once in my life and it was a long time ago. I dreamed I was in mid air and was slowly gliding toward an old stone building which looked like the ones we sometimes see in films that characterize the 16th century. The fact is that the more I approched the building, the more I was recalling having being there. And just at the moment the memory was about to fully sprout in my mind, I woke up.
This experience really uplifted my interest for knowing more about life and after-life and I often thought this vision to be some form of stimulus from my TA to push me forward on the path he chose for me… but I could be in the field.
109:6.7 (1201.1) Everything of permanent value which is intrusted to an Adjuster is assured eternal survival. In certain instances the Monitor holds these possessions for bestowal on a mortal mind of future indwelling; in others…
In any case, I am glad my comments stirred up your creative input.
Cheers
Thank you very much Alain for sharing not only your extraordinary “experience”, but also for selecting Urantia Book quotes that may well be related to that experience! I personally believe that people can have such real experiences that may be of some value either for those who have such experiences or for others who hear of such experiences. In your case, it at least created a curiosity within you that led to you wanting to learn more about life beyond ordinary living. However, according to what Bradly & others have previously posted on this forum, your experience would be considered completely unreal nonsense. Maybe in some cases such experiences are pure fantasy. Yet other cases make an honestly curious person wonder about such topics as reincarnation. OR such cases should at least make one wonder if reincarnation is completely false and psychic ability does not truly exist (according to Bradly & others who have thoroughly studied the UB), yet details of someone else’s past life suddenly become known to a total stranger, then there must be some REAL mechanism(s) by which sometimes provable information is being extraordinarily transferred from person to person. There is so much info in the UB that I would hope it would at least give us rational clues as to what those mechanisms are. If & when such mechanisms can be properly identified in the UB, it may not only bring an end to a very widespread supposedly false worldview, but also it could dramatically affect consciousness research!
Related to properly identifying such mechanisms, I wanted to ask Bradly (& whoever else wants to reply) about Urantia Book 47:10.2 & 47:10.3 – sections which refer to both John the Revelator and the apostle Paul having authentic visions of Jerusem. Exactly how AND why were they able to see something that is normally invisible & unknowable to humans on planet Earth?! Also, of what value was such visions to John and Paul, much less to us when we have been repeatedly told by some on this forum that nothing except our own direct experiences of living on Earth has any potential value of being spiritualized after we die?! I am NOT trying to be a jerk by asking such questions; rather, I think such logical questions deserve logical answers.
Blessings to all of you!
Hello again Bradly, Bonita, and the others who interacted with me on this forum; after several months I’m still reading the Urantia Book, though I have also read a few others in between. I just finished reading Paper 117 (God The Supreme) & want to say that this Paper 117 answers the question (as best as I could hope within the Urantia Book) that I kept asking in this forum but no one answered to my satisfaction. That question was, “If reincarnation is false, then what real mechanisms/processes have so many people potentially/likely misinterpreted as reincarnation?” So Nigel was right to encourage people in this forum to keep reading the Urantia Book, for it does seem to anticipate & answer all relevant questions that humans may conceive the ultimate questions regarding our existence.
Greetings All!!
Michael…hmmmm….you seem intent on misunderstanding me and putting words in my mouth I have never and would never utter. A pity. Oh well.
I have never said and do not believe that visions or personal revelation (the only source of real or valid visions by the agency of Spirit) are “completely unreal nonsense”….as I have already and even recently pointed out and reiterated. Are you reading my posts? Perhaps you might actually copy and paste my words rather than misquote and misrepresent them? Thank you.
The UB certainly explains and validates and verifies personal revelation and the more spiritized we become and spiritually progressed we are, the more likely and the more certain are “picturizations of destiny” presented by the Thought Adjusters. Two things: memories of other people’s lives on this or any other planet is irrelevant to our destiny! Second, such picturizations have a specific purpose to inspire the soul to the heavenly survival and experience.
The UB repeatedly points out and explains the very real dangers of believing that what happens in our dream state or subconscious is a result of true personal revelation rather than being what it is so very often – the mortal mind at mischief, creating fantasy and fiction and other forms of self deluding imagery by the very power of mind itself!! Alain has certainly demonstrated an awareness of and appreciation for this very real risk and danger. Does that danger and warning invalidate his experience??? Heck no. Who would say so? Me? Hahahaha….never. How might I know such a thing?????!!!!
Reincarnation is completely false….according to the Papers. Memory implants of other people’s lives is also false…according to the Papers. Believe whatever you will. I believe the long and very clear body and history of scientific documentation of false memory as is thoroughly substantiated by the Papers. You seek proofs of this preconception. So be it. Keep seeking. And keep believing in reincarnation. That is fine. No worries. Perhaps you are right and the UB is wrong!? That’s fine too. Belief in reincarnation is no great obstacle to spirit progress and eternal life….as has been said many time here already.
Prejudice however….that’s another and far more serious matter.
No one here has said that “…nothing except our own direct experiences of living on Earth has any potential value of being spiritualized after we die.” The experiences of the Creator Son and our Guardian Angels and our Thought Adjuster certainly have a great influence upon our personal experience. The experiences of our parents and tribal culture and our ancestors all have a great influence upon our personal experience as well. We are part of something much greater than self. Our very genes influence our personal experience too. In fact, such considerations are part of the TA selection process for choosing those mortal minds for their endowment experience.
The question is not whether an experience is real. Delusion is real. Hallucinations are real too. Fantasy is real. Or they are real to those who experience them. Visions and voices in the head as well. But what parts of our experience reflect universe reality or spiritual realities? Which experiences create or support faith? Faith is real. No matter its source or whether that source is fact or fiction or real or unreal or some combination. Faith is itself a function of reality – the reality of God and mind and spirit and personality and all beings in the universe of universes!
Does one’s belief in reincarnation deliver faith? Does one’s belief in visions or voices bring faith in God or the Great Other? Does one’s belief in the visions of other people’s lives bring us a faith experience? If so, then all of those primitivisms and superstitions have indeed contributed to one’s evolutionary religious experience and deliver the faith results of spirit progress to our soul.
Well done…..carry on!!
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Welcome back Michael. More reading of the UB is always encouraged…and fruitful! I look forward to your discoveries and insights!
It is the experience of many students that every read delivers new meanings and greater context. The presentations of universe reality are like a tapestry with many threads of colors woven into textures and patterns and like an orchestration of many instruments presenting so many parts and movements in a grand symphony of sound – both are appreciated by repeated exposure and experience.
New colors and paterns and melodies and harmonies will emerge to delight and inspire!
Enjoy.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
110:6.5 (1209.5) The Adjusters are always near you and of you, but rarely can they speak directly, as another being, to you. Circle by circle your intellectual decisions, moral choosings, and spiritual development add to the ability of the Adjuster to function in your mind; circle by circle you thereby ascend from the lower stages of Adjuster association and mind attunement, so that the Adjuster is increasingly enabled to register his picturizations of destiny with augmenting vividness and conviction upon the evolving consciousness of this God-seeking mind-soul.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
