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Reincarnation

560 posts · 25 participants · started Jun 2, 2017, 2:41 PM

Mark KurtzParticipant
Feb 26, 2022, 2:22 PM
How to say “No” to God is a momentarily appropriate question in this thread. People can subtlety say ‘no’ while some may consciously express rejection. The UB authors tell us God is the only reality, which seems like a profound declaration that only God the Father knows all and is the Ultimate Planner and Minister Absolute. There is no such other person anywhere. To such a Person we direct our “truth seeker antenna.” The UB is here to re-define who, what, how of truth and is given by assigned personnel of our Universe Parents to correct us, lead us, inspire us. But, as we know a person can reject such guidance, in a way, to say ‘no’ to God. The authors are correcting our concepts that there is only progress, not backward movement. Progress is also provided for beings higher than the human races. Progress is the watchword of the universe, they say.

It seems to me there are truth seekers and evidence seekers- some sincerely wanting to know what is true about God, creation, et al while others are seeking evidence for a current posit. Jesus had a superb ability to judge a person’s heart. If a person refuses to see larger and becomes recalcitrant in the presence of God, then such persons, we are told, are delayed in their progress. Even on the Mansion Worlds, we will be tested before allowed to proceed onward.

Spiritual progress involves sincere truth seeking with a whole heart! I suspect each person must totally surrender all notions of finality of beliefs (firm conclusions) here and become a sincere adventurer citizen of larger truths . We must let go of stubbornness as we see it displayed in Jesus’ day and in current life. The UB authors present a sound case for forward movement, not reverting to old beliefs or returning to planetary re-education sessions.
MaraParticipant
Feb 26, 2022, 8:23 PM

Mark Kurtz wrote:

Spiritual progress involves sincere truth seeking with a whole heart! I suspect each person must totally surrender all notions of finality of beliefs (firm conclusions) here and become a sincere adventurer citizen of larger truths . We must let go of stubbornness as we see it displayed in Jesus’ day and in current life. The UB authors present a sound case for forward movement, not reverting to old beliefs or returning to planetary re-education sessions.

Nicely put Mark. Again, I refer truth-seekers to Jesus. This is what he said:

133:4.4 [Part IV]

To the earnest leader of the Mithraic cult he said: “You do well to seek for a religion of eternal salvation, but you err to go in quest of such a glorious truth among man-made mysteries and human philosophies. Know you not that the mystery of eternal salvation dwells within your own soul? Do you not know that the God of heaven has sent his spirit to live within you, and that this spirit will lead all truth-loving and God-serving mortals out of this life and through the portals of death up to the eternal heights of light where God waits to receive his children? And never forget: You who know God are the sons of God if you truly yearn to be like him.”

.

176:1.7 [Part IV]

When Jesus heard this, he was thoughtful for some time and then said: “You ever err since you always try to attach the new teaching to the old; you are determined to misunderstand all my teaching; you insist on interpreting the gospel in accordance with your established beliefs. Nevertheless, I will try to enlighten you.”
BradlyParticipant
Feb 27, 2022, 2:19 AM
Yes Mark…

…there are those who seek more than they know, and then there are those who merely seek confirmation of what they think they already know.

One moves forward and the other not so much.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
MaraParticipant
Feb 27, 2022, 2:36 AM
No, no reincarnation. At the end of life, whether long or short, we leave earth behind.

39:2.13 [Part II]

The angels cannot transport combustion bodies — flesh and blood — such as you now have, but they can transport all others, from the lowest morontia to the higher spirit forms. They do not function in the event of natural death. When you finish your earthly career, your body remains on this planet. Your Thought Adjuster proceeds to the bosom of the Father, and these angels are not directly concerned in your subsequent personality reassembly on the identification mansion world. There your new body is a morontia form, one that can enseraphim. You “sow a mortal body” in the grave; you “reap a morontia form” on the mansion worlds.

47:3.1 [Part II]

On the mansion worlds the resurrected mortal survivors resume their lives just where they left off when overtaken by death. When you go from Urantia to the first mansion world, you will notice considerable change, but if you had come from a more normal and progressive sphere of time, you would hardly notice the difference except for the fact that you were in possession of a different body; the tabernacle of flesh and blood has been left behind on the world of nativity.
BradlyParticipant
Feb 27, 2022, 4:01 PM
39:4.13 (435.6) To the inhabited worlds the quickeners of morality portray mortal life as an unbroken chain of many links. Your short sojourn on Urantia, on this sphere of mortal infancy, is only a single link, the very first in the long chain that is to stretch across universes and through the eternal ages. It is not so much what you learn in this first life; it is the experience of living this life that is important. Even the work of this world, paramount though it is, is not nearly so important as the way in which you do this work. There is no material reward for righteous living, but there is profound satisfaction—consciousness of achievement—and this transcends any conceivable material reward.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
AnonymousInactive
Feb 28, 2022, 5:24 PM

you’re not prepared to receive the good news from my lips.

137:8.18 (1537.5) When he had thus spoken, he sat down. All who heard him were astonished at his words. His disciples marveled. But the people were not prepared to receive the good news from the lips of this God-man. About one third who heard him believed the message even though they could not fully comprehend it; about one third prepared in their hearts to reject such a purely spiritual concept of the expected kingdom, while the remaining one third could not grasp his teaching, many truly believing that he “was beside himself.”

Nigel Nunn wrote:

Hi Michael, Your truly excellent reply to rich added a whole lot of value to his brief comment. Seems to be true, that when the student (rich) is ready, the teacher (Michael) arrives Nigel
BradlyParticipant
Mar 1, 2022, 1:49 AM

richsachs wrote:

you’re not prepared to receive the good news from my lips.

137:8.18 (1537.5) When he had thus spoken, he sat down. All who heard him were astonished at his words. His disciples marveled. But the people were not prepared to receive the good news from the lips of this God-man. About one third who heard him believed the message even though they could not fully comprehend it; about one third prepared in their hearts to reject such a purely spiritual concept of the expected kingdom, while the remaining one third could not grasp his teaching, many truly believing that he “was beside himself.”

Nigel Nunn wrote:

Hi Michael, Your truly excellent reply to rich added a whole lot of value to his brief comment. Seems to be true, that when the student (rich) is ready, the teacher (Michael) arrives Nigel

Nigel…doesn’t look like rich is a student or ready for any teacher. Too bad.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
AnonymousInactive
Mar 1, 2022, 8:55 PM

you’re learning to laugh and laugh heartily.

128:6.11 (1416.4) The children were always welcome at the repair shop. Jesus provided sand, blocks, and stones by the side of the shop, and bevies of youngsters flocked there to amuse themselves. When they tired of their play, the more intrepid ones would peek into the shop, and if its keeper were not busy, they would make bold to go in and say, “Uncle Joshua, come out and tell us a big story.” Then they would lead him out by tugging at his hands until he was seated on the favorite rock by the corner of the shop, with the children on the ground in a semicircle before him. And how the little folks did enjoy their Uncle Joshua. They were learning to laugh, and to laugh heartily. It was customary for one or two of the smallest of the children to climb upon his knees and sit there, looking up in wonderment at his expressive features as he told his stories. The children loved Jesus, and Jesus loved the children.

Bradly wrote:

richsachs wrote:

i said one thing.

71:2.13 (802.7) Freedom of speech. Representative government is unthinkable without freedom of all forms of expression for human aspirations and opinions.

Bradly wrote:

Hahaha!!! Rich, so many things in the UB you disagree with and for so long too!! Michael…you may wish to not engage this one. Trouble with a capital T. Mods here allow his foolishness and piracy. Too bad. Other sites have terminated his posting and hijacking privileges for good cause. Habitually disruptive and unresponsive.

Actually…you said:

“when a world is settled in light and life then there’s no more need for reincarnation, until then reincarnation is helpful for most mortals.”

And then this:

“You will reincarnate whether or not you believe that you will. It is much easier if your theories fit reality; but if they do not, you will not change the nature of reincarnation one iota.” (From the book: THE SETH MATERIAL) i believe in seth, my only difference with tub.”

Just to be clear, I did not report this post to be “inappropriate”…although I think it is really. Personally I do appreciate Rich pointing out the fact that he disagrees with the Urantia Papers. Certainly this issye is not his only disagreement or contradiction of the UB however, despite that claim above. Rich has a long record of posts and opinions at other sites as well. Anyway…the fictional Seth of Robert’s fame as author and self proclaimed psychic is no authority here about anything at all.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Mar 1, 2022, 9:18 PM
urantia4me wrote:

“Hello Nigel – I want to thank you for your efforts to compare and contrast modern ideas on astronomy with the relevant parts of the Urantia Book. Besides viewing 3 of the 4-part videos (with the Milky Way video still to come), I read some of the related posts in some of the others forums you started, along with some of the comments from others. I have a better understanding of the foundational structures at the macro & micro levels.

So now may I ask, should we think of Segregata as Dark Matter, and Dark Energy as a force coming from Nether Paradise? Also, should we think of the Ultimaton as a kind of bridge between observable matter/gravity & (currently) non-observable counterparts, especially since one of its properties is anti-gravity? I ask that because vortices are thought by some to serve as portals linking lesser to greater realities.”

Hi Michael,

I’ve added a reply over here in the Revisionist Cosmology thread.

Nigel
AnonymousInactive
Mar 2, 2022, 10:17 PM

the ub has weakened its own influence and authority by lying about reincarnation.

92:4.9 (1008.2) 5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.

Bradly wrote:

richsachs wrote:

look this is MY theory, there’s no proof for reincarnation. reincarnation can be helpful on a world not settled in light and life. the ub is about perfection in a sense. there’s no way i can give you an adequate explanation, this is simply a belief held by any given individual. most every new age book i read besides the ub believes in reincarnation. seth explains it extensively. on a world of light and life a person would progress so well that reincarnation wouldn’t be helpful, they would simply go to whichever mansion world they’re meant to go to. i could type about this or talk about this extensively but there’s no point to it. you can’t prove or disprove whatever someone believes about reincarnation.

Agreed. No one can prove anything here and no one is trying to. But we can, I think, agree on what the UB says about reincarnation and it is the Papers we share and study here. Seth is irrelevant here.

The UB is clear. There is no reincarnation in the universe reality perspective given in the UB. None. Why someone would believe in the teachings about planetary destiny and Light and Life in the UB but dismiss the teachings on the primitive and superstitious myth of reincarnation is quite interesting.

And puzzling.
BradlyParticipant
Mar 2, 2022, 11:09 PM
Rather rude for a guest don’t you think?

Similar behaviors got you sacked elsewhere if you recall.

Are direct attacks toward the Papers a wise choice here I wonder?

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Moderator-2Moderator
Mar 3, 2022, 2:31 AM

richsachs wrote:

the ub has weakened its own influence and authority by lying about reincarnation.

Rich this is a serious accusation against the UB which neither you nor anyone else I suspect would be able to prove. It is one thing to disagree with The Urantia Book and quite another to claim that it is deliberately promoting falsehoods. If you wish to continue as a forum member, I suggest that you desist from this type of comment.
MaraParticipant
Mar 4, 2022, 7:29 PM
164:3.4 [Part IV] […] The Master found it difficult to make men believe that their souls had not had previous existences.

No such thing as reincarnation.
urantia4meParticipant
Mar 6, 2022, 7:27 AM
I have a very possible/probable solution to this reincarnation debate based on statements made in the Urantia Book, but I welcome anyone to identify the location of at least one of the UB references I will make. I’m better at remembering ideas rather than where specific quotes are.

Ok, when I first joined this forum, I truly thought reincarnation was part of our human reality, but as I read the UB, I changed my mind to the idea that those who claim reincarnation is real for us humans are mis-perceiving some other real but technically unrelated phenomenon, though I had not found any good examples or analogies to make my points as clearly as I wanted, until now…

In UB Paper 41, Sections 5.6 & 5.7, we are amazingly informed about the human mis-perception of energy (such as light) paradoxically moving as BOTH particles & waves. We learn from the UB that light moves in straight lines, but that other forces are acting upon the light which gives us humans the illusion that the nature of light must also consist of waves. The UB further uses the analogy of rain sometimes appearing to fall in sheets or waves, but that is not the true nature of rain.

Likewise, reincarnation is not the actual process/phenomenon that we humans experience, even though it may appear that way to some of us humans. So here is what may be happening…the UB states somewhere in the 1st half of the book that Urantia (which we know is our Earth) is visited almost daily by other-worldly beings, such as student visitors. Assuming that is true, then we can assume that sometime during those visits, the students are taking guided tours of our planet. There are at least 2 kinds of beings mentioned in the UB – Angels and Midwayers – who would be well-qualified to serve as tour guides due to their having perfect knowledge of Earth’s history, as well as having perfect knowledge of all the humans who ever lived on our planet Earth.

It is also possible/probable that all such planetary tourist information is conveyed directly from the minds of the tour guides to the minds of the student visitors, similar to how telepathy supposedly could theoretically work. But honestly, due the inefficient method of ordinary verbal communication, such communication is likely highly interactive, where complete thoughts & emotions “are worth thousands of words”.

At any given time & place, humans could potentially walk right into such a tour and never directly perceive it or its participants, for the beings involved are naturally functioning in a greater/higher dimensional reality which is “normally” invisible & inaudible to humans. But what if, on rare occasions, human minds CAN or DO pick up such normally imperceptible tour guide communication, similar to how the Smithsonian museums in Washington DC are set up to play audio/video that automatically starts playing when cameras sense your presence in front of the related display?! The answer is that such accidental humans encounters with such advanced beings would easily fool us humans into thinking we were somehow connected to the persons, locations and/or events being “discussed” among the tour guide participants, due to the sudden thoughts simply entering our minds.

If you think that such scenarios are not possible, consider that the UB states that even the jailed apostles of Jesus were set free by a Midway Creature, but they mistakenly assumed it was an Angel who freed them. Thus, humans can have rare interactions with Angels/Midwayers but also mis-perceive them.

Bye for now.
MaraParticipant
Mar 6, 2022, 8:56 PM

urantia4me wrote:

. . . but as I read the UB, I changed my mind to the idea that those who claim reincarnation is real for us humans are mis-perceiving some other real but technically unrelated phenomenon . . . .

As I understand the theory of reincarnation, it is the belief that the soul or spirit has had previous lives as a weed, an insect, an animal, or some other being such as a human who lived in the past. As I understand it, a person goes through an apparently endless cycle of death (from a dead weed, from a dead insect, from a dead animal, from a dead human) and then gets reborn into one or another of the examples I mentioned. In this day and age I never heard anyone report back what life was like as an insect. Usually they report themselves as having been a famous person from the past.

101:3.1 [Part III]

Religion is so vital that it persists in the absence of learning. It lives in spite of its contamination with erroneous cosmologies and false philosophies; it survives even the confusion of metaphysics. In and through all the historic vicissitudes of religion there ever persists that which is indispensable to human progress and survival: the ethical conscience and the moral consciousness.

.

1:3.7 [Part I] In the inner experience of man, mind is joined to matter. Such material-linked minds cannot survive mortal death. The technique of survival is embraced in those adjustments of the human will and those transformations in the mortal mind whereby such a God-conscious intellect gradually becomes spirit taught and eventually spirit led. This evolution of the human mind from matter association to spirit union results in the transmutation of the potentially spirit phases of the mortal mind into the morontia realities of the immortal soul. Mortal mind subservient to matter is destined to become increasingly material and consequently to suffer eventual personality extinction; mind yielded to spirit is destined to become increasingly spiritual and ultimately to achieve oneness with the surviving and guiding divine spirit and in this way to attain survival and eternity of personality existence.

5:4.7 [Part I]

The Zoroastrians had a religion of morals; the Hindus a religion of metaphysics; the Confucianists a religion of ethics. Jesus lived a religion of service. All these religions are of value in that they are valid approaches to the religion of Jesus. Religion is destined to become the reality of the spiritual unification of all that is good, beautiful, and true in human experience.
MaraParticipant
Mar 7, 2022, 10:44 PM
Careful now. You might get booted off this forum after all by group consensus.
AlainParticipant
Mar 8, 2022, 1:50 AM
Richsachs,

I think you are well intended and sincere. But after reading your posts, I can only say that they reflect incongruous and irrelevant responses. It’s sad to say that, while all the UB quotes you use are inspiring, you generally use them out of content. This is annoying. I suggest for you at this time that you concentrate more on what you read than on what you should write.

Fraternal affection.
urantia4meParticipant
Mar 20, 2022, 2:06 PM
Rich, are you aware that the idea of reincarnation is already somewhat outdated/replaced with the idea simultaneous realities/lifetimes even within the New Age movement?! Neale Donald Walsh (within his 3rd Conversations With God book), Dolores Cannon (within the Conversations With Nostradamus series), and some others presented this as a fact, suggesting that the only reason that people continue to believe in reincarnation is because they are either incapable/unwilling to understand this greater reality/truth. So I’m actually surprised that you are so beholden to the Seth Material. Even Emanuel Swedenborg from hundreds of years ago said it was revealed to him that reincarnation was a falsehood based on misperception of such a greater reality that actually seemed very similar to the idea of repersonalization as presented in the Urantia Book. Swedenborg also said we humans never come back to live a physical life on this Earth, and the real process of our continued existence is only taking place in the afterlife in an existence that seems very much like the Morontia existence revealed in the Urantia Book. And quite recently I have even received such confirmation from teachers with the New Age movement that we are NOT experiencing reincarnation after our physical death, but they continue to teach it simply because their followers (and even they themselves) can’t quite explain how simultaneous realities/lifetimes work. In my opinion, there are enough practical clues in the UB to logically explain how simultaneous realities/lifetimes could work.

The answer to that mystery is to learn all what is taught in the Urantia Book regarding repersonalization, and especially notice the reference about the Thought Adjusters engaging in the process of cross-planetary fertilization. Notice also how bees fertilize flowers, since it seems to be analogous on a small, physical scale to what Thought Adjusters do on a large, non-physical scale. Notice especially how individual bees move from flower to flower, NEVER returning to flowers they have already visited before. Likewise, Thought Adjusters pick up where they left us off after we become aware/alive in the Morontia existence. There is where we go from world to world based on our needs for growth/maturity within the Mantion World system.
BradlyParticipant
Mar 30, 2022, 1:25 PM
You “positively suggest”….what?

That superstition and primitive beliefs are somehow accurate? You promote shamanism, witchcraft, and voodoo?

Here?

Paper 92 teaches us how primitive such evolutionary steps are, especially so today.

You embrace and justify primitivism here rich by your claims and disagreement with the UB. I wonder if you also believe in possession by evil spirits and the evil eye?

Humans. We’re a funny bunch of monkeys after all.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
jeanParticipant
Mar 30, 2022, 6:49 PM
Salut Richssachs

T’est sympa mais chiant, tu n’a rien à faire sur ce forum, tu polue la discution par tes interventions, mais je pense que c’est ce que tu désire.

Si les modérateurs ne te vire pas, je quitte le forum

à bon entendeur.

Jean

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