Hi Bradly: You have given much help in the past to those of us who need it from more well versed readers and your name is well known on the forum and I have read many or your posts. Thank you for your time and effort.
I would like to reread and study again papers 110-112 as you suggested and maybe it will result in a fuller understanding of the questions that persist in the transition from a former believer in reincarnation to a better grasp of the UB.
After more study on my part I will reconnect with you about starting a topic on my questions.
Thank you again and stay well
Bart
Thank you Bart. Very kind of you. I look forward to the discussion and study. I think I’ll go ahead and start it up!
In the meantime, as related to reincarnation: After rejecting the evolutionary and fundamentalist church of my youth, I was drawn to the study of Taoism and Zen – still do today (I also studied some Western philosophers and also…still do!) and gave much consideration to reincarnation. I ultimately rejected it before finding the Urantia Papers…but I did discover great truth within it which certainly rang true and felt right to me as well.
As a teenager I early came to believe that the Christian teaching that salvation, which leads to the resurrection of soul immediately results, somehow, in the perfection of the soul merely by surviving material death to be ridiculous!! And the reality portrayed of a universal and uniform stasis to be undesirable!! Christianity was so disappointing, especially when I embraced the teaching of karma and enlightening. Karma is a universal teaching that is certainly distinct from reincarnation. Reincarnationists coopted and incorporated karma. Reincarnation does require karma. Karma does NOT require reincarnation. Jesus taught karmic principals or repercussion of all motive and choices – reaping what is sown and the fruits of the Spirit are universal karmic principals.
Reincarnation teaches experiential progression and the perfecting and becoming related to enlightening and wisdom!! YES PLEASE!!
This is very true according to the UB. This is universe reality. The evolutionary process of perfecting by gaining experiential wisdom!!!
Reincarnation is wrong in little ways but so right in such big ways!!!
The reason I rejected reincarnation was due to a couple of factors: first – it seemed to me to shrink and diminish the universe and God into a very earth-centric and rather primitive perspective – always returning over and over to this same little rock? I find almost all human religions and philosophies do the same. The second reason was retrogression and animal incarnations which I also found to be primitive….even silly. The third point for my ultimate rejection is loss of personal awareness and the continuity of experiential wisdom and enlightening. How can we progress forward by going backwards and without conscious memory of all prior decisions and results????? The fourth point of my disillusionment with reincarnation is the fact and truth that karma is NOT about material outcomes or punishments or rewards in the current life or any future life either….karma is a teacher of wisdom and evolutionary enlightening that requires consciousness and conscience both which reincarnation certainly is lacking!
Ultimately I found reincarnation irreconcilable with the very process of perfecting it claimed to represent. Illogical. Unreasonable. Irrational. It was based on karmic principals which it ignored, denied, and betrayed. That was my personal journey with reincarnation. As I’ve said already here on this thread…reincarnation is not sinful but merely inaccurate and incomplete and unfulfilling – especially related to the Papers we study here!! Why people believe in reincarnation is not so difficult to understand. Why they become prejudice and cling to that falsehood when blessed by the perspective of reality presented in the UB is a mystery to me however!
The UB certainly answered all those questions about karma and evolution and experiential wisdom for me and in so many cases confirmed truths already discovered, embraced, and known and also tweaked many points of context in powerful ways to unify my own experience and perspective in such logical and reasonable and rational ways! The whole text makes so much sense and expands and unifies and harmonizes reality in such glorious ways. Well….I became a big fan….obviously!
As to your specific question….I would say that God chooses all choices out of very personal and Divine Affection for each and for all beings in creation. Fairness and mercy are primary and foundational factors in the experience of all beings throughout eternity and especially those of us born in time. Not everything can be understood by mortal mind…or even by celestials. Not everything is explained to us in the UB as Mara points out. But what is specified and clear is God’s love for all beings and for the totality of creation and the function of fairness in all universe affairs.
So all discussions about survival and progress and destiny and potential begins and ends with God’s love and God’s mercy.
1:4.4 (26.6) We are constantly confronted with this mystery of God; we are nonplused by the increasing unfolding of the endless panorama of the truth of his infinite goodness, endless mercy, matchless wisdom, and superb character.
2:4.1 (38.1) Mercy is simply justice tempered by that wisdom which grows out of perfection of knowledge and the full recognition of the natural weaknesses and environmental handicaps of finite creatures. “Our God is full of compassion, gracious, long-suffering, and plenteous in mercy.” Therefore “whosoever calls upon the Lord shall be saved,” “for he will abundantly pardon.” “The mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting”; yes, “his mercy endures forever.” “I am the Lord who executes loving-kindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth, for in these things I delight.” “I do not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men,” for I am “the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort.”
2:4.2 (38.2) God is inherently kind, naturally compassionate, and everlastingly merciful. And never is it necessary that any influence be brought to bear upon the Father to call forth his loving-kindness. The creature’s need is wholly sufficient to insure the full flow of the Father’s tender mercies and his saving grace. Since God knows all about his children, it is easy for him to forgive. The better man understands his neighbor, the easier it will be to forgive him, even to love him.
2:4.3 (38.3) Only the discernment of infinite wisdom enables a righteous God to minister justice and mercy at the same time and in any given universe situation. The heavenly Father is never torn by conflicting attitudes towards his universe children; God is never a victim of attitudinal antagonisms. God’s all-knowingness unfailingly directs his free will in the choosing of that universe conduct which perfectly, simultaneously, and equally satisfies the demands of all his divine attributes and the infinite qualities of his eternal nature.
2:4.4 (38.4) Mercy is the natural and inevitable offspring of goodness and love. The good nature of a loving Father could not possibly withhold the wise ministry of mercy to each member of every group of his universe children. Eternal justice and divine mercy together constitute what in human experience would be called fairness.
2:4.5 (38.5) Divine mercy represents a fairness technique of adjustment between the universe levels of perfection and imperfection. Mercy is the justice of Supremacy adapted to the situations of the evolving finite, the righteousness of eternity modified to meet the highest interests and universe welfare of the children of time. Mercy is not a contravention of justice but rather an understanding interpretation of the demands of supreme justice as it is fairly applied to the subordinate spiritual beings and to the material creatures of the evolving universes. Mercy is the justice of the Paradise Trinity wisely and lovingly visited upon the manifold intelligences of the creations of time and space as it is formulated by divine wisdom and determined by the all-knowing mind and the sovereign free will of the Universal Father and all his associated Creators.
5. The Love of God
2:5.1 (38.6) “God is love”; therefore his only personal attitude towards the affairs of the universe is always a reaction of divine affection. The Father loves us sufficiently to bestow his life upon us. “He makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”
2:5.2 (39.1) It is wrong to think of God as being coaxed into loving his children because of the sacrifices of his Sons or the intercession of his subordinate creatures, “for the Father himself loves you.” It is in response to this paternal affection that God sends the marvelous Adjusters to indwell the minds of men. God’s love is universal; “whosoever will may come.” He would “have all men be saved by coming into the knowledge of the truth.” He is “not willing that any should perish.”
2:5.3 (39.2) The Creators are the very first to attempt to save man from the disastrous results of his foolish transgression of the divine laws. God’s love is by nature a fatherly affection; therefore does he sometimes “chasten us for our own profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness.” Even during your fiery trials remember that “in all our afflictions he is afflicted with us.”
2:5.4 (39.3) God is divinely kind to sinners. When rebels return to righteousness, they are mercifully received, “for our God will abundantly pardon.” “I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins.” “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God.”
2:5.5 (39.4) After all, the greatest evidence of the goodness of God and the supreme reason for loving him is the indwelling gift of the Father—the Adjuster who so patiently awaits the hour when you both shall be eternally made one. Though you cannot find God by searching, if you will submit to the leading of the indwelling spirit, you will be unerringly guided, step by step, life by life, through universe upon universe, and age by age, until you finally stand in the presence of the Paradise personality of the Universal Father.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
But I appreciate your somewhat unusual style of making your points, and trying to help me feel better about my situation, namelessuntilfused. We can thank the Lucifer Rebellion for taking Earthlings off course, tho we should thank the fused Jesus-Michael for trying to bring us back on course, tho after reading parts of the UB, it seems that that fused being 2000 years ago had more of a greater cosmic goal in mind from which Urantia can benefit. Also, I’ve seen/heard of some of the others topics you mentioned from books and the internet. How long before we are microchipped?! Actually, best to stay within UB topics, tho I’m well-aware of many of the ways that our world is needlessly being corrupted. You know, I get the impression from the UB that our lives are so relative short on Earth that no matter what happens, we will each be given the opportunity (after death) to learn from our shortcomings on Earth without reincarnation. (I hope I made clear from the example I gave last nite that I was NOT promoting telepathy – rather, it was to show another possible way in which humans could mistakenly believe in reincarnation.) Ok – getting sleepy again, so adios amigos!