560 posts · 25 participants · started Jun 2, 2017, 2:41 PM
To all my friends here at the Forum. So long for now. I think a season away might be good for all. Apologies to those discussing reincarnation. Your topic has surely been derailed and hijacked. Perhaps my respite might help restore it.
Adieu. 
Namaste
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Jesus taught that the mind sins long before the tongue or hand in the lesson on lust. Have you read it?
Are you talking about this one:
140:6.5 “You have heard the teachers of the law say, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that every man who looks upon a woman with intent to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. You can only judge men by their acts, but my Father looks into the hearts of his children and in mercy adjudges them in accordance with their intents and real desires.”
Note that Jesus did not say that thinking about adultery is sin. He said thinking about it in the mind is just as bad as doing it, yet we know that self-control can prevent a person from acting out his fantasies, and with a desire to change can overcome it. No judgment is being made here.
Bradly wrote:How does God measure the mind and heart? Only man measures the act. God measures the motivation for the choices made. Need the text Bonita????
God’s measurement of the mind and heart has little to do with karma. Karma is created by actions. And you’re wrong that only man measures those actions. Of course God, in his loving and merciful way, evaluates decision-choices according to their attunement to his will. The act is ours but the consequences are God’s. If the act doesn’t rise to the level of the Supreme, it has no lasting value. But value can’t be measured directly because it’s quality, which is felt. It’s quantity that is measured.
111:3.6 Mind knows quantity, reality, meanings. But quality — values — is felt. That which feels is the mutual creation of mind, which knows, and the associated spirit, which reality-izes.
All the quotes you provided have nothing directly to do with growth of the soul. The first is about entering the kingdom, but not growth within it. The second and third have to do with judgment, the fourth has to do with morality and I have no idea why you included the fifth.
Bradly here: Bonita , your motive here by this post seems sinister and not at all kind. Please stop judging me and badgering me. Your beliefs are your own. So is your confusion. This is not discussion. This is an act of aggression on your part and is easily seen by all here as such. Perhaps you might leave me alone??? It is so sad to see you turn on me so suddenly and viciously. Sad indeed.
But you just said that only God knows my true motives and intentions. Could it be that you are projecting your own? Of course I cannot say. I do not know.
Dearest both of you,
Still rocking heavily the cradle.
Hihihihi, how impetuous, personal and human where yours last posts both of you. Both of you mean well. Each of you had high esteem of the others. As our participants had towards one another with falllble, imperfect family members. BUT STRIVING FOR FATHER’S PERFECTION.
Despite ours clumsy expressive tentative.
I have great appreciation and delight of yours posts Bradley. You have a commitment to share an express honestly, courageously what you think and go up to the barricades despite the possibility of incomplete or inexact assertions. Wasn’t the purpose of such key venue ?
Idem Bonita is concerning your whole-heartedly participation. Always stretch an hand to explain encore et encore facts/significations/values. Up in arms with righteous intentions, brotherly’s motives. Despite it could be imperfectly conveyed. Missing a touch of ponderation.
110:5.1 Conscience, rightly, admonishes you to do right; but the Adjuster, in addition, endeavors to tell you what truly is right; that is, when and as you are able to perceive the Monitor’s leading.
Warms and affectionate regards,
André
Really???!!!! Stop judging and attacking me!!
Bradly wrote:Suddenly you are as mean as a snake Bonita. Perhaps I should retire for a season?? You appear to have seized control here by your obvious superiority. Oh well….
Missing a touch of ponderation.
Not true André. There has been plenty of ponderation. I’ve just put in three hours attempting to explain mischaracterizations and misunderstandings. Lots and lots of ponderation happening here. And don’t forget these words from Jesus:
146:3.2 “Courage is the confidence of thoroughgoing honesty about those things which one professes to believe. Sincere men are unafraid of the critical examination of their true convictions and noble ideals.”
I’m curious, do you have anything to say about karma? What is your understanding of it in terms of TUB’s explanation? Here’s the only quote again:
94:3.5 The karma principle of causality continuity is, again, very close to the truth of the repercussional synthesis of all time-space actions in the Deity presence of the Supreme; but this postulate never provided for the co-ordinate personal attainment of Deity by the individual religionist, only for the ultimate engulfment of all personality by the Universal Oversoul.
We haven’t even begun to discuss engulfment into the so-called Universal Oversoul.
On the karma cleanse…there is no punishment on the Mansion Worlds for the evil or sins committed during our material life. We leave behind all that is not of survival quality. We may arrive with some vestiges of material and animal legacy. But we mature and progress beyond those without suffering punishment for prior errors. You need the quotes for that?
Getting back to the karma cleanse. I honestly don’t know for sure what this means but based on what Bradly said above it sounds like the character consequences of our evil actions are erased as soon as we die and get to the mansion worlds. I’m not buying that because it sounds like magic to me. I agree that punishment is not in God’s vocabulary; he’s all forgiving, but I still can’t see how this theory holds water. If it’s true, it means I can say and do as many hateful things I want short of iniquity and it will all be gone after I die. I think that idea is malarky.
A mind that habitually entertains evil and a personality who habitually chooses to do evil can still wake up on mansonia provided all the mercy credits haven’t been cashed in. Such an individual will have a character reflective of the choices made during planetary life. Character flaws persist as defects and deficiencies which need to be remedied. That’s the whole purpose of the first two mansion worlds, to remedy defects in character as well as other deficiencies. This means we take our character defects with us.
47:3.8 Almost the entire experience of mansion world number one pertains to deficiency ministry. Survivors arriving on this first of the detention spheres present so many and such varied defects of creature character and deficiencies of mortal experience that the major activities of the realm are occupied with the correction and cure of these manifold legacies of the life in the flesh on the material evolutionary worlds of time and space.
If a personality cooperates in its own rehabilitation, then progress is made; if not, the personality can still reject survival. If everyone wakes up with a clean slate, a beautiful, good and true soul with no character blemishes at all, what would motivate them to ever reject survival? What would need correction and cure? Willfulness and reluctance to cooperate, two character defects, do not miraculously disappear, so I don’t see an instant karmic cleanse in this regard as anything possible.
45:7.8 Under the supervision of the Melchizedeks the ascending mortals, especially those who are tardy in their personality unification on the new morontia levels, are taken in hand by the Material Sons and are given intensive training designed to rectify such deficiencies.
What do you suppose tardiness in personality unification means? There’s a whole section about it in paper 56. Since we are made in God’s image we are destined to have a unified personality just as he does. That’s the goal of the Adjuster, to guide the personality in its unification attunement with God’s unified personality. A tardy personality is a personality defective in its divinity attunement. Since personality has a high source, God himself, it’s actually not the personality at fault here but the character of the personality that has habituated some kind of obstruction to unification. That’s a character flaw inhibiting survivability and it’s still there on the mansion worlds. It was not cleansed. It was not left behind on the planet of origin as Bradly claims. Perhaps it means we develop new character flaws on the mansion worlds? I don’t buy that either. I think it’s the old legacy flaws held onto with great stubbornness.
Since the highest form of personality unification is to become the “server of all”, as per Jesus, then tardiness in personality unification is tardiness in developing loving service to others and the universe. It’s a failure of cosmic socialization of the personality, an inability or unwillingness to be about the Father’s business. This is potentially personality isolating which is something not survivable. It seems to me that it is very likely that this sort of behavior results in causality continuity (the karma look-alike) even on the mansion worlds.
56:10.14 “No man lives by himself.” Cosmic socialization constitutes the highest form of personality unification. Said Jesus: “He who would be greatest among you, let him become server of all.”
And here’s another thought about karma cleansing. Isn’t there such a thing as good karma? Is that cleansed too after we die? Of course that doesn’t make sense, so why one and not the other? My solution is that there is no such thing as karma cleanse. I think its poppycock.
Bradly said that karma is determined by motives not actions.
Bradly wrote:Karma has little to do with the actual choices we make but everything to do with the motives of our choices.
I decided to do some research in my library and was surprised to learn that the word karma actually means action.
From the Encyclopedia of World Religions: In Buddhism and Hinduism important term of which the root means “action.” Derivatives of the term mean action and the appropriate result of that action.
It is our motive that is perfected between this life and Paradise according to the text.
I’m not sure what text you are referring to but I do know that it’s our purpose, not motive, that is perfected between this life and Paradise. The text describes perfection of purpose as being disappointment proof and achieving a level of sublime sincerity. There’s no mention of perfecting motive or the reason we do things in the quote. Maybe you mean divinity of desire, which is that one all-consuming desire, with perfect willingness, to do God’s divine will. I don’t think you need a reason for that, other than love.
26:4.13 When, through and by the ministry of all the helper hosts of the universal scheme of survival, you are finally deposited on the receiving world of Havona, you arrive with only one sort of perfection — perfection of purpose. Your purpose has been thoroughly proved; your faith has been tested. You are known to be disappointment proof. Not even the failure to discern the Universal Father can shake the faith or seriously disturb the trust of an ascendant mortal who has passed through the experience that all must traverse in order to attain the perfect spheres of Havona. By the time you reach Havona, your sincerity has become sublime.
Every cause has an effect, whether in the visible mechanism of matter, in the laws that govern our magnificent planet earth, in our physical body, in all the cosmos, but also and especially in our structure of psychological, emotional and spiritual growth.
Karma in the Eastern meaning and origin of the word is not to be compared to the law of cause and effect.
At our individual and personal level and according to the information received in The Urantia Book, our starting point begins on earth in a progressive and ascending way to the maximum consciousness of God.
Excellent start to the week at home and thank you for all your enriching sharing.
Samuel
_________________________________________________________________________
Toute cause amène un effet, que se sois dans le mécanisme visible de la matière, dans les lois qui régissent notre magnifique planète terre, dans notre corps physique, dans tous le cosmos, mais aussi et surtout dans notre structure de croissance psychologique, émotionnelle et spirituelle.
Le Karma dans la signification et l’origine oriental du mot n’est pas à comparé à la loi de cause à effet.
À notre niveau individuel et personnel et d’après les informations reçu dans le livre d’Urantia, notre point de départ commence sur terre de façon progressive et ascendante jusqu’au maximum de conscience de Dieu.
Excellent début de semaine chez vous et merci pour tous vos partages enrichissants.
Samuel
Friendship enhances joys, glorifies the triumphs of life and fidelity is a treasure of the soul.
110:5.1 Conscience, rightly, admonishes you to do right; but the Adjuster, in addition, endeavors to tell you what truly is right; that is, when and as you are able to perceive the Monitor’s leading.
Nice graphic.
140:8.26 Jesus knew men were different, and he so taught his apostles. He constantly exhorted them to refrain from trying to mold the disciples and believers according to some set pattern. He sought to allow each soul to develop in its own way, a perfecting and separate individual before God. In answer to one of Peter’s many questions, the Master said: “I want to set men free so that they can start out afresh as little children upon the new and better life.” Jesus always insisted that true goodness must be unconscious, in bestowing charity not allowing the left hand to know what the right hand does.
WOW! I go away from this forum for just a short while and everybody else shows up – it’s like being late to a party 
Welcome Samuel – I appreciate your comparison of metaphysics and the Urantia Book – metaphysics can only take us humans so far, while TUB takes us further, since it is revelation and not simply humans giving it their best shot. By the way, my wife’s first language is French, while English is a second language, so I appreciate you writing in both languages, for it provides greater potential for others to enter this forum. But realize that you may be asked to translate for those of us who only speak our native languages
Welcome back to Paul in Portland, and Andre, and Mara – I have not yet finished reading all of your posts from months/years ago, but I like the variety of what everyone brings to these discussions! And of course we should all value the years of studying that Bonita and Bradly bring to the forum…
I was surprised by the negativity that recently crept into the forum. I think we should extend some mercy to each other, for teaching and learning involves more than just our knowledge of facts, or our abilities to quote from sources. That is why in the Bible, we have the story of the Good Samaritan which Jesus used to answer the question, “Who is our neighbor?” And that question was asked in response to Jesus saying that 2nd greatest commandment is to “Love your neighbor as (much as you love) yourself”. So I want to pick up on the recent ideas that Mara and Andre provided…
We will make more progress if we hold back any urges to (mis)judge each others’ comments. That stems from hyper-sensitivities, which of course come from our personal life experiences, which shape our beliefs and interpretations of others’ beliefs. That is why when I first joined this forum, I briefly asked Bonita and Bradly about their backgrounds, specifically as they relate to their beliefs about reincarnation and about the Urantia book. Bonita gave enough details to help me understand her perspectives and areas of skepticism, but Bradly did not share as much, which is his right to not disclose as much details. However, I notice that Bradly does not have a problem being a critical of others’ ideas, but is quick to point out when others are critical of his ideas. That is NOT a criticism as much as an observation that makes me wonder all the more what he experienced in life that has made him a bit more hyper-sensitive than I would have expected from him. I wonder if the dispute regarding “suffering” could better be explained by making a distinction between the kind of suffering that comes directly from making poor/bad decisions in life, like me borrowing a lot of money from the government to attend college, versus the kind of suffering that comes from watching our loved ones making poor/bad decisions for themselves in life, like the way my parents “suffer” (emotionally) as they watch me struggle to pay back my student loans. I think that is the kind of distinction that Bradly and Bonita failed to consider and discuss with each other. Bradly and Bonita already know how much I like analogies from our daily life experiences to enhance our understanding of both metaphysical concepts and the ideas presented in the Urantia Book. By the way, the Urantia book has already indicated that it is best NOT to be so dogmatic about our ideas, even if they are true. As an analogy, my parents often try to prove each other wrong when they argue; my father is better at that than my mother; HOWEVER, while he may win most arguments, he has lost “the war” (in terms of the goal of strengthening their marriage, which is pitiful by any normal standard).
Thus, instead of each of us merely defending our positions, let us also try to better understand why each of us believes as we do. Which brings me back to a question that I asked Bradly and Bonita, which the Urantia book may or may not fully answer – how exactly are humans supposedly misinterpreting the mansion worlds and morontia life as “reincarnation”? Just simply quoting a few sections of the Urantia book is NOT enough to help transition people from a “solid” belief in reincarnation to a “solid” belief in the Urantia Book teachings. Neither is it helpful to simply dismiss reincarnation as “false memories”. Karma (and reincarnation in the modern, new age context) are NOT as illogical as Bradly and Bonita makes them out to be; if they were SO illogical, hardly anyone would believe it! Where is the supposed misunderstandings taking place?
Bonita and Bradly have already quoted much from the Urantia Book; I think we should more closely examine some of those quotes, and logically speculate on them if we must, in order to solve such an odd puzzle. The fact that the first mansion world is still so very material in nature as to NOT shock us once we resurrect in the morontia life could be a valuable clue. Another good clue is that the Urantia book states that our souls are already experiencing morontia life (to some extent) while we are still living this physical existence. So let me ask, “In what ways are our souls experiencing morontia life while we are still physically alive?” If you can thoroughly answer that question, perhaps it will shed light on how we are misinterpreting those morontia experiences as reincarnation. Do you all see that I am attempting to get us all to approach this subject like a mystery worth solving, rather than simply restating ideas with the attitude of “I’m right and you are wrong”, which has been the basic pattern that this forum has taken for months and years.
So please, let us try a more creative, constructive approach to this forum topic of reincarnation, instead of jumping from A to Z in just one person’s forum post. Bridge the gaps in our understanding of reincarnation to our understanding of the Urantia book concepts. By the way, Bradly seems to imply that there is NO value in suffering in this physical life; thus suffering should not be a part of the afterlife. Actually, I came to the conclusion years ago that most people seem to learn how to be more respectful human beings often as a result of personal suffering. For example, I used to have poor dietary habits, and as a result of my suffering digestive issues, I changed my diet for the better. So (at least some forms of) suffering/struggles can benefit us humans in the here and now, so why should that type of learning NOT be useful to us in the afterlife?! True that it would be better if we learned our lessons the easy way versus the hard way, but either way, we can learn. Bye for now.
Karma (and reincarnation in the modern, new age context) are NOT as illogical as Bradly and Bonita makes them out to be; if they were SO illogical, hardly anyone would believe it! Where is the supposed misunderstandings taking place?
I don’t think you’ll find any post of mine saying that belief in reincarnation is illogical. Although I personally cannot make it fit into my logic, I certainly do understand how and why others come to the conclusion. Don’t forget that it was the orange man who invented the idea. How long has the orange race been extinct? A very, very long time, eons. This means that the idea is ingrained so deeply that attempting to pull it out would also tear out other ideas that should remain, the most crucial being that one’s life continues on. I much prefer to embellish that idea rather than take the risk of killing it off. I’m a physician, a healer and dedicated to maintaining life wherever I find it, which also fits nicely into the reincarnation mind-set. There are threads of truth worth saving there. I think it best to focus on truth, and when embraced, truth itself will drive out all erroneous ideas. The secret is to let the Spirit of Truth do his own work.
178:1.16 And forget not: We have made no direct attack upon the persons or upon the authority of those who sit in Moses’ seat; we only offered them the new light, which they have so vigorously rejected. We have assailed them only by the denunciation of their spiritual disloyalty to the very truths which they profess to teach and safeguard. We clashed with these established leaders and recognized rulers only when they threw themselves directly in the way of the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom to the sons of men. And even now, it is not we who assail them, but they who seek our destruction. Do not forget that you are commissioned to go forth preaching only the good news. You are not to attack the old ways; you are skillfully to put the leaven of new truth in the midst of the old beliefs. Let the Spirit of Truth do his own work. Let controversy come only when they who despise the truth force it upon you. But when the willful unbeliever attacks you, do not hesitate to stand in vigorous defense of the truth which has saved and sanctified you.
The fact that the first mansion world is still so very material in nature as to NOT shock us once we resurrect in the morontia life could be a valuable clue. Another good clue is that the Urantia book states that our souls are already experiencing morontia life (to some extent) while we are still living this physical existence. So let me ask, “In what ways are our souls experiencing morontia life while we are still physically alive?”
First of all, I don’t think the reason the initial mansion worlds are proportionately more material has anything to do with shocking us. It’s because we have not co-created our souls much beyond the material level here on earth. If a person fuses while in the flesh, that person bypasses the mostly material mansion worlds because the soul has become less material and more spiritual. The requirement of 570 transitions is an indication of decreasing material content and increasing spiritual content of one’s being. The morontia life begins on the world of nativity when the soul is born, and that is because the soul is morontial. To live the morontial life on earth is to live a soul-centered life.
Therefore, the morontia life we experience here on earth must involve soul consciousness. At first the human material, adjutant mind is only partially conscious of the soul, the Adjuster is fully conscious of it and the soul itself has limited consciousness of both. As the soul grows, due to our willingness to do the will of God, the soul gradually becomes conscious of the presence of the material adjutant mind and the Adjuster as its co-creational parents.
111:3.4 Both the human mind and the divine Adjuster are conscious of the presence and differential nature of the evolving soul — the Adjuster fully, the mind partially. The soul becomes increasingly conscious of both the mind and the Adjuster as associated identities, proportional to its own evolutionary growth. The soul partakes of the qualities of both the human mind and the divine spirit but persistently evolves toward augmentation of spirit control and divine dominance through the fostering of a mind function whose meanings seek to co-ordinate with true spirit value.
It is this consciousness of the soul that drives a personalty to co-create and it is the experience of the co-creative partnership that is the morontia life here on earth. Although the soul cannot function on the material level, the mind can become conscious of the soul, and the personality can participate by devoting its power of free will to doing God’s will, which is discovered in the soul. Doing God’s will within the physical life of the individual is referred to as fruit-bearing, a natural outflow of soul-consciousness and the willingness to participate in the great circuit of love. The morontia life is all about love, which we comprehend as truth, beauty and goodness. These divine values are a soul-level reality experience brought to life in the physical world through a co-creative partnership with Love Himself.
56:10.20 To finite man truth, beauty, and goodness embrace the full revelation of divinity reality. As this love-comprehension of Deity finds spiritual expression in the lives of God-knowing mortals, there are yielded the fruits of divinity: intellectual peace, social progress, moral satisfaction, spiritual joy, and cosmic wisdom. The advanced mortals on a world in the seventh stage of light and life have learned that love is the greatest thing in the universe — and they know that God is love.
117:6.10 All true love is from God, and man receives the divine affection as he himself bestows this love upon his fellows. Love is dynamic. It can never be captured; it is alive, free, thrilling, and always moving. Man can never take the love of the Father and imprison it within his heart. The Father’s love can become real to mortal man only by passing through that man’s personality as he in turn bestows this love upon his fellows. The great circuit of love is from the Father, through sons to brothers, and hence to the Supreme. The love of the Father appears in the mortal personality by the ministry of the indwelling Adjuster. Such a God-knowing son reveals this love to his universe brethren, and this fraternal affection is the essence of the love of the Supreme.
If you can thoroughly answer that question, perhaps it will shed light on how we are misinterpreting those morontia experiences as reincarnation. Do you all see that I am attempting to get us all to approach this subject like a mystery worth solving, rather than simply restating ideas with the attitude of “I’m right and you are wrong”, which has been the basic pattern that this forum has taken for months and years.
I think you can see that I did answer that question and it has nothing to do with reincarnation. It has to do with a personal relationship with God. Of course such a relationship leads to the concept of salvation and everlasting life which is the truth that drives out the erroneous beliefs of evolutionary religion. It is the relationship that lives on, the relationship between Creator and creature. It’s a partnership and reincarnation would threaten to separate that partnership or change its trajectory from morontia back to material, going backward instead of forward. All living things want to grow and that includes the soul, which is another word for Creator/creature relationship, the essence of eternal life itself.
The soul cannot function on the material level, so continued material reincarnations would not necessarily contribute to its growth, and once the soul is born it’s urge to grow is insatiable. A progressing personality would identify with the soul and desire to move onto morontia levels of further growth even if the intellect of that personality has not been educated as to the existence of that level of reality. The morontia soul is experienced as a presence, an “other-than-self” presence, and all normal people have the experience. Some ignore it and some embrace it. But those who embrace it want more of it and will follow wherever it goes, it’s called evolution of dominance. The soul, the human-divine relationship, leads the way forward, upward and inward to Paradise.
But, we are taught, that which causes such suffering in our material life does not survive our death.
I have no idea what this means so I ask, what causes suffering? The list is endless and the experience is different for everyone. Something that causes me suffering might bring another person joy. The deer in my yard cause me to suffer loss of shrubbery and flowers which makes me miserable, but the deer in my neighbor’s yard (who feeds them) is a joy to her. Fabric softener causes me great suffering because of a severe allergy, but most people find fabric softener to be useful and pleasant. So obviously, these physical types of suffering are not the real issue here and I agree this kind of suffering does not survive our death.
But that’s not the suffering TUB is referring to in the quotes about the hammer and anvil. Character building suffering is the issue at hand and character building continues after death. So the question becomes, does suffering that contributes to character building survive death? Does some form of suffering exist in the ascension career? If not, why this:
31:10.12 During the present universe age the evolving personalities of the grand universe suffer many difficulties due to the incomplete actualization of the sovereignty of God the Supreme, but we are all sharing the unique experience of his evolution. We evolve in him and he evolves in us. Sometime in the eternal future the evolution of Supreme Deity will become a completed fact of universe history, and the opportunity to participate in this wonderful experience will have passed from the stage of cosmic action.
And when describing the Ministering Reserves on the mansion worlds, why do they mention this:
48:6.36 And from them you will learn to suffer less through sorrow and disappointment, first, by making fewer personal plans concerning other personalities, and then, by accepting your lot when you have faithfully performed your duty.
And why bother telling us that systems, constellations and universes suffer from the wrongdoing of others, as described here:
54:6.3 Each member of a family profits by the righteous conduct of every other member; likewise must each member suffer the immediate time-consequences of the misconduct of every other member. Families, groups, nations, races, worlds, systems, constellations, and universes are relationships of association which possess individuality; and therefore does every member of any such group, large or small, reap the benefits and suffer the consequences of the rightdoing and the wrongdoing of all other members of the group concerned.
And if we are not meant to suffer through our disappointments in the next life, why is being disappointment proof only accomplished when we land on the shores of Paradise? Being disappointment proof is the mark of a divine and noble character which is completely dedicated to God’s will regardless of its potential disappointments. In fact, I don’t think a personality with perfection of purpose is capable of being disappointed by anything God wills. I think that’s what makes it perfect.
26:4.13 When, through and by the ministry of all the helper hosts of the universal scheme of survival, you are finally deposited on the receiving world of Havona, you arrive with only one sort of perfection — perfection of purpose. Your purpose has been thoroughly proved; your faith has been tested. You are known to be disappointment proof.
So, is there opportunity for suffering after we become disappointment proof? I think so, but it’s a different kind of suffering, I think it’s the long-suffering quality of love.
I can always count on U to make good points, Bonita Eventually I will find the answers to my original question, making logical connections step-by-step to reasonably explain how we who view reincarnation as logical can progress from that to what the Urantia book presents, similar to the process of how math students learn to show all their steps which led to their answers. I did read that Urantia chapter about psychic circles that U recommended – I suspect there are also clues there to explain such intense thoughts, feelings, & odd experiences that STILL give the impression of past lives. I also wonder about how our consciousness interacts with the Supreme God (who is evolving & trying to make all things work together for the good of all) as that may also provide clues. I also have seen interesting parallels between info in the Urantia book and some odd experiences described by R. Monroe in his book Far Journeys, & some of the perspectives by ETs regarding inferior human ideas that D. Cannon described in her book The Custodians. All good reading:-)
I did read that Urantia chapter about psychic circles that U recommended – I suspect there are also clues there to explain such intense thoughts, feelings, & odd experiences that STILL give the impression of past lives.
If that’s what you’re looking for, then I can’t help you. If a person can remember their past life as an insect, then their mind is not something I’m familiar with. One of the other things you might look into as a possible explanation is the concept of the alter ego. Every normal person on earth has a dual mind and a dual ego. That feeling of “other life” might just be the other you, your divine self, living in your head.
I also wonder about how our consciousness interacts with the Supreme God (who is evolving & trying to make all things work together for the good of all) as that may also provide clues.
You’re talking about soul consciousness when it comes to the Supreme, and it’s the Holy Spirit in the soul who has connections to the Supreme. So if you’re interested in interacting with the Supreme, be born of the Spirit and work on the psychic circles. The further along you go in the psychic circles, the greater the morontia consciousness of the Supreme. Incidentally, you can call them cosmic circles too because they increase cosmic consciousness. Many of these TUB words overlap.
110:6.16 Perhaps these psychic circles of mortal progression would be better denominated cosmic levels — actual meaning grasps and value realizations of progressive approach to the morontia consciousness of initial relationship of the evolutionary soul with the emerging Supreme Being. And it is this very relationship that makes it forever impossible fully to explain the significance of the cosmic circles to the material mind. These circle attainments are only relatively related to God-consciousness. A seventh or sixth circler can be almost as truly God-knowing — sonship conscious — as a second or first circler, but such lower circle beings are far less conscious of experiential relation to the Supreme Being, universe citizenship. The attainment of these cosmic circles will become a part of the ascenders’ experience on the mansion worlds if they fail of such achievement before natural death.
I also have seen interesting parallels between info in the Urantia book and some odd experiences described by R. Monroe in his book Far Journeys, & some of the perspectives by ETs regarding inferior human ideas that D. Cannon described in her book The Custodians. All good reading:-)
When it comes to the supernatural you will find parallels in all metaphysical works. The supernatural is something we humans are able to sense but cannot understand, so there are as many interpretations of experience with it as there are personalities. I think it’s good to find parallels as long as you realize that the conclusions you draw from them might be erroneous. The human mind is hell-bent on unifying its consciousness and it will connect dots just to have them connected. It doesn’t mean that the dots have been connected correctly, or in the best way. Some dots might be missing. That’s the purpose of revelation, to provide some missing dots. The problem is, some people, once they connect the dots together, don’t want to redo the drawing. And to be fair, some people just can’t, they’re too invested, the whole structure could topple. But it will all be okay in the end. None of it is important for survival. Faith is all you need, a desire for the supernatural Being, the Being people keep chasing and trying to define, the Being they don’t understand but who keeps them constantly intrigued.
Thank you as always for your feedback, Bonita. I think I should give a specific example to demonstrate how specific (and confirmed true by researchers) the details are that individuals have given that strongly suggests past life connections more so than simply labeling such individuals as liars, lunatics, or something else to discredit them without actually investigating such claims. On one episode of “Ghost Inside My Child”, a very young boy kept describing life and death details of an African-American soldier who fought in one of the major global wars, which I think in this case was WW2. The boy’s parents at first thought he was imagining such events until he was able to provide the name (and burial place in Japan!) of that WW2 soldier. When family members later visited Japan, they found the grave of that soldier, then they were able to locate family members of that soldier who were amazed by the young boy’s intimate knowledge of that soldier and his family – even private things that only close family members of the soldier would know! Many such documented cases of suspected reincarnation contain that kind of intimate level of knowledge of people, places, and events! So until rational explanations are given that adequately explain such phenomena, reincarnation will remain as a plausible explanation to many people. You see, false memories doesn’t really explain such phenomenon, nor does the fact that the Urantia book states such explanations as that primitive man falsely got ideas of reincarnation from seeing offspring who looked just like their ancestors. That’s why I am seeking things in the Urantia book that CAN truly explain how & why cases like that still persist. I am NOT opposed to changing my beliefs regarding reincarnation as long as Urantia book teaching are at least equally plausible explanations. Bye for now
The first red flag for me is the fact that your information is from a TV show that makes money off the story. Can’t put much stake in things like that. Sorry. It just doesn’t resonate with my core. Things that don’t resonate with my core get ignored. I’m not saying they are right or wrong, they just don’t resonate. There’s so much more that does resonate that I’m backlogged in my ponderation. Just don’t have the time to ponder the non-resonant. Sorry again.
Hi,
I thought about “reincarnation” . Try to understand ” Why the subject do not interested me that much ? ”
After my earlier years as children, adolescent and young men … basic spiritual cornerstone was set in place. Catholic, metaphysic, Christian and concluded at 61 as Religionist.
I think Religionist is an ever position since bestowal Diety ministries. Expanded potentiallity when bestowed a T/A (Though Adjuster).
The “mise à jour” obtained by TUB was consistent and never unequaled, outdated.
I feel like the twins apostles.
191:0.11 (2038.6) The Alpheus twins took little part in these serious discussions; they were fairly busy with their customary ministrations. One of them expressed the attitude of both when he said, in reply to a question asked by Philip: “We do not understand about the resurrection, but our mother says she talked with the Master, and we believe her.”
Their faith was childlike.
189:1.3 (2021.2) Mankind is slow to perceive that, in all that is personal, matter is the skeleton of morontia, and that both are the reflected shadow of enduring spirit reality.
Truth having to do with spiritual realities and eternal values cannot always be built up by a combination of apparent facts. Although individual facts may be materially true, it does not follow that the association of a group of facts must necessarily lead to truthful spiritual conclusions. 189:2.6
I do not despite facts and TUB unraveled a LOTS. For excellent reasons concerning own creative imagination,inter allia. But rhetoric [Art of persuasion](invention, arrangement, style, memory, and delivery). It’s not my dish of tea,i prefer coffee. Been there, done that.
I’m curious, do you have anything to say about karma? What is your understanding of it in terms of TUB’s explanation? Bonita
Karma !!! Personally, it is significant of all decisions, all actions taken as Urantian. Explaining the unescapable detour throughout The mansion worlds. Correctives animal/human behaviors which attach me to dysfunctional, illusionary, untrue, unreal perceptions.
This next quote underlines an obligatory passage for humans to come to logical fruition whenever is false or true. But obviously
this branch of philosophy: metaphysics is a necessary evil [error] course due to exceptional Urantian’s challenges.
Paper 103 – The Reality of Religious Experience
103:9:0 (1140.7) Notwithstanding the mythologic vagaries and the psychologic illusions of the intellectual content of religion, the metaphysical assumptions of error and the techniques of self-deception, the political distortions and the socioeconomic perversions of the philosophic content of religion, the spiritual experience of personal religion remains genuine and valid.
Regards,
André
