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Reincarnation

560 posts · 25 participants · started Jun 2, 2017, 2:41 PM

  1. 103:9:0 (1140.7) Notwithstanding the mythologic vagaries and the psychologic illusions of the intellectual content of religion, the metaphysical assumptions of error and the techniques of self-deception, the political distortions and the socioeconomic perversions of the philosophic content of religion, the spiritual experience of personal religion remains genuine and valid.

    Fantastic quote.  Thanks Andre.

    I guess this means people shouldn’t ridicule others for their erroneous metaphysical assumptions, self-deceptions, political distortions or philosophic perversions, right?

  2. Ridiculused, roasted, condamnation, bullying, selfishness, idiocy are all childreen whom loves to play in the mud and their parents Immaturity and Irresponsability take pleasure in it. But I suspect mungrels out there.

    As mention in my post. NO steps done on the road of evolution should be criticised by the lights of present time.

    If so … check it out you must be an adopted child or a mungrel of the family mentionned.

  3. I guess this means people shouldn’t ridicule others for their erroneous metaphysical assumptions, self-deceptions, political distortions or philosophic perversions, right?

    Did Jesus ridiculised the apostles ?

    They all can qualified as your question stated

    On this platform non-well-moderated, they are persons whom pass by with stubborn, vindicative, evil-intentioned attitudes.

    I’m not adressing to them.

    Any honest seekers of truths are welcome. Debating  pros/cons  is ok.

    André

     

  4. Thank you again Andre and Bonita, for I read your thoughtful replies, which includes more Urantia quotes.  In fact, what you both have recently provided may serve as relevant connections to something that entered my mind today.  Recall in an earlier post of mine in this forum that I like to view ideas from various perspectives.  One of my methods of learning is to play with “What if” scenarios, such as asking the question, “What if I assume the Urantia book is totally correct regarding the falseness of reincarnation?  What have I learned over the years that I could use to form a logical theory – that I could accept – to support the idea that TUB is totally correct on this issue?  Today, I thought of just such a way to regard what people have experienced as a real but misinterpreted phenomenon; you could say that I am attempting to properly identify the mechanisms by which so many humans are viewing reincarnation as true (even if it is NOT true)…

    I have read/heard of psychic ability being explained in the following way (by those who also believe in reincarnation)…human brains are like radios/TVs that can “tune into” and then receive something metaphysically akin to broadcast signals; those same brains can also metaphysically “transmit” broadcast signals.  What if we humans are unconsciously/subconsciously “tuning into” past lives of other people that were originally broadcast on frequencies that were/are very near to our own particular frequencies?!  But instead of properly recognizing those other signals as belonging to other individuals, what if our minds falsely assumed those signals were somehow our own particular signals, thus thinking those past lives of others were actually our own past lives?!  Normal functioning human brains always try to make sense of signals they receive, as they routinely do whenever sensory input reaches their eyes and ears.  What if a similar kind of process routinely takes place within humans (beyond their normal conscious awareness) in the form of extra sensory perception?!

    Hopefully I adequately presented that what if scenario, for it is late and I am getting sleepy and must end my writing for this evening.  Will be interesting to read everyone’s replies, including replies from those who fully believe in reincarnation.  I hope Bonita (and others who have extensive knowledge of TUB) will let me know if TUB even allows for such a theory, or if TUB even goes further to potentially support such a theory.  Bye for now.

  5. I hope Bonita (and others who have extensive knowledge of TUB) will let me know if TUB even allows for such a theory, or if TUB even goes further to potentially support such a theory.

    Mind is not contained within the skull.  Mind makes contact with physical neural tissue, but it does not reside there. Mind is a ministry and it functions within overlapping circuits.

    111:1.5 Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious.

    Adam and Eve, before being demoted to human, were able to transmit thoughts to their kin over a distance of 50 miles due to a particular gas structure in their heads.  Humans do not have these structures.

     74:6.6 Adam and Eve could communicate with each other and with their immediate children over a distance of about fifty miles. This thought exchange was effected by means of the delicate gas chambers located in close proximity to their brain structures. By this mechanism they could send and receive thought oscillations. But this power was instantly suspended upon the mind’s surrender to the discord and disruption of evil.

    Each person has their own individualized nebula of the cosmic mind ministered to by the adjutant mind ministry (among other mind ministries).

    9:5.4 The Conjoint Creator is the ancestor of the cosmic mind, and the mind of man is an individualized circuit, an impersonal portion, of that cosmic mind as it is bestowed in a local universe by a Creative Daughter of the Third Source and Center.

    The thoughts within each individualized nebulae can be shared with those of “like-mind”.  Mind does run in similar channels because of its origin.

    16.6.3  The fact of the cosmic mind explains the kinship of various types of human and superhuman minds. Not only are kindred spirits attracted to each other, but kindred minds are also very fraternal and inclined towards co-operation the one with the other. Human minds are sometimes observed to be running in channels of astonishing similarity and inexplicable agreement.

    There are such beings as mind-energy manipulators who function on the morontia spheres to enable intercommunication between people. TUB tells us that this phenomenon is practically nonexistent on earth, which I interpret to mean, not entirely absent.

    44:5.3 2. Mind-energy manipulators. These are the experts of intercommunication between morontia and other types of intelligent beings. This form of communication between mortals is practically nonexistent nonexistent on Urantia. These are the specialists who promote the ability of the ascending morontia beings to communicate with one another, and their work embraces numerous unique adventures in intellect liaison which are far beyond my power to portray to the material mind. These artisans are the keen students of the mind circuits of the Infinite Spirit.

    However, there is nothing at all in TUB which suggests that thought waves linger past the time the personality is alive and actively creating them unless they are of high spiritual value, in which case they are drawn to the absolute mind circuit of the Third Source and Center by mind-gravity. But these thoughts are not individualized memories, they are concepts of pure value.

    9:6.2 Much as the Father draws all personality to himself, and as the Son attracts all spiritual reality, so does the Conjoint Actor exercise a drawing power on all minds; he unqualifiedly dominates and controls the universal mind circuit. All true and genuine intellectual values, all divine thoughts and perfect ideas, are unerringly drawn into this absolute circuit of mind.

    Memories are an individual experience.  Human experience involves more than mind waves or thoughts, it involves the entire self, including the personality which unifies it.

    102:4.2 What is human experience? It is simply any interplay between an active and questioning self and any other active and external reality. The mass of experience is determined by depth of concept plus totality of recognition of the reality of the external. The motion of experience equals the force of expectant imagination plus the keenness of the sensory discovery of the external qualities of contacted reality. The fact of experience is found in self-consciousness plus other-existences — other-thingness, other-mindness, and other-spiritness.

    Those experiences with any value are duplicated by the Adjuster for posterity as memories and are the property of the soul and the Adjuster.  They are not broadcasted.  They are entirely passive after death until the individual personality is resurrected by the return of the Adjuster who activates them.  Unresurrected individuals are absent personality and incapable of communicating (no one knows where the personality of a sleeping survivor goes. 112:5.15); resurrected personalities are forbidden to communicate with mortals from their native planet.

    112:6.7 Mortal mind, prior to death, is self-consciously independent of the Adjuster presence; adjutant mind needs only the associated material-energy pattern to enable it to operate.But the morontia soul, being superadjutant, does not retain self-consciousness without the Adjuster when deprived of the material-mind mechanism. This evolving soul does, however, possess a continuing character derived from the decisions of its former associated adjutant mind, and this character becomes active memory when the patterns thereof are energized by the returning Adjuster.

    112:3.7 Such dis-Adjustered souls are wholly and absolutely unconscious during the long or short sleep of death. There can be no exhibition of any sort of personality or ability to engage in communications with other personalities until after completion of survival. Those who go to the mansion worlds are not permitted to send messages back to their loved ones. It is the policy throughout the universes to forbid such communication during the period of a current dispensation.

    It is possible to know the mind of others, but there is nothing said about the possibility to know the minds of dead people, minds which have ceased to function in connection with a personality.  There has to be a consciousness of an active “other-than-self”.  Both self-consciousness and “other-than-self” consciousness is a property of personality. Any lingering mind oscillations, as you propose, must still be attached to an active personality in order to be perceived by another personality’s consciousness.

    102:4.1  Because of the presence in your minds of the Thought Adjuster, it is no more of a mystery for you to know the mind of God than for you to be sure of the consciousness of knowing any other mind, human or superhuman. Religion and social consciousness have this in common: They are predicated on the consciousness of other-mindness. The technique whereby you can accept another’s idea as yours is the same whereby you may “let the mind which was in Christ be also in you.”

    16:8.5 Creature personality is distinguished by two self-manifesting and characteristic phenomena of mortal reactive behavior: self-consciousness and associated relative free will.

    16:8.6 Self-consciousness consists in intellectual awareness of personality actuality; it includes the ability to recognize the reality of other personalities. It indicates capacity for individualized experience in and with cosmic realities, equivalating to the attainment of identity status in the personality relationships of the universe. Self-consciousness connotes recognition of the actuality of mind ministration and the realization of relative independence of creative and determinative free will.

  6. Wow Bonita – though I will have to review your last detailed reply (possibly a few times, due to all the good TUB quotes, it gives me hope in finding possible answers to my primary questions!  I am especially intrigued by the TUB quotes with regard to the nature and function of the cosmic mind.  If you recall, I mentioned that there are interesting parallels between TUB and “The Custodians” and “Far Journeys”, especially in “The Custodians”.  In that book, there is one or more references to the cosmic mind, and a description of a peculiar experience that 2 people were allowed to share that makes me think I should learn as much as I can about the cosmic mind as presented in TUB.  Likewise, from one of the TUB quotes you shared, I should research ” a Creative Daughter of the 3rd Source and Center.  (I saw on the website that someone put together a resource that gives information about many of the personalities referenced in TUB.)

    I have a few questions in the meantime, Bonita.  Does TUB comment on the Earth itself as being a living being, something comparable to the Gaia concept?  Related to that, does TUB comment on anything comparable to the Akashic Records?  You quoted and commented on the fact that once we fully transition into morontia life, we cannot communicate with the world of the living, which is also the basic idea found in the Bible.  Usually, the idea of reincarnation does NOT involve the dead communicating with living, but does TUB contain anything comparable to the idea of simultaneous lifetimes, in the sense of “past, present, and future” being more of a human construct that only exists on Earth?

    It’s after 2am, so to sleep I must go for now.

  7. Does TUB comment on the Earth itself as being a living being, something comparable to the Gaia concept?

    No.  Earth has life but it is not a being.  If a planet is a being, then Paradise would also have to be a being, a member of the Trinity, which it is not.  The word being suggests personality, and while all beings have personality, not all entities do.  However, both personalities and entities are minded in some way. It is also true that all life on the planet is minded in some way, but not all of the planet is living.  The physical matter and energy of the planet is nonliving yet it supports life.  The confusion comes from the fact that matter is responsive to mind, but this does not mean that matter itself is minded; but rather, matter is conditioned by mind, the divine mind of the Conjoint Actor.   The role of the cosmic mind is to coordinate matter and spirit.

    0:5.5 The Universal Father is the secret of the reality of personality, the bestowal of personality, and the destiny of personality. The Eternal Son is the absolute personality, the secret of spiritual energy, morontia spirits, and perfected spirits. The Conjoint Actor is the spirit-mind personality, the source of intelligence, reason, and the universal mind. But the Isle of Paradise is nonpersonal and extraspiritual, being the essence of the universal body, the source and center of physical matter, and the absolute master pattern of universal material reality.

    9:3.7 Paradise is not a person.

    9.6.7 The greater the spirit-energy divergence, the greater the observable function of mind; the lesser the diversity of energy and spirit, the lesser the observable function of mind. Apparently, the maximum function of the cosmic mind is in the time universes of space. Here mind seems to function in a mid-zone between energy and spirit, but this is not true of the higher levels of mind; on Paradise, energy and spirit are essentially one.

    Related to that, does TUB comment on anything comparable to the Akashic Records?

    There are tons of records, but they are not accessible to earth-bound humans.  Some will become accessible on the mansion worlds with assistance from angelic aids.  There are living records (available through reflectivity) and non-living records available for study.  Unfortunately, we mortals on earth do not have access to them, but our Adjusters do.

    17:3.9 While Thought Adjusters do not participate in the operation of the universal reflectivity system, we have every reason to believe that all Father fragments are fully cognizant of these transactions and are able to avail themselves of their content.

    25:6.2 As the recorders advance in universe service, they continue their system of dual recording, thus making their records always available to all classes of beings, from those of the material order to the high spirits of light. In your transition experience, as you ascend from this material world, you will always be able to consult the records of, and to be otherwise conversant with, the history and traditions of your status sphere

    does TUB contain anything comparable to the idea of simultaneous lifetimes, in the sense of “past, present, and future” being more of a human construct that only exists on Earth?

    No. Not aware of any such thing. Timelessness is a feature of the absolute level of reality, and the absonite level of reality transcends time, neither of which are capable of being experienced by earth-bound mortals.

    0:1.13 The absolute level is beginningless, endless, timeless, and spaceless. For example: On Paradise, time and space are nonexistent; the time-space status of Paradise is absolute. This level is Trinity attained, existentially, by the Paradise Deities, but this third level of unifying Deity expression is not fully unified experientially. Whenever, wherever, and however the absolute level of Deity functions, Paradise-absolute values and meanings are manifest.

    0:1.12 The absonite level of reality is characterized by things and beings without beginnings or endings and by the transcendence of time and space. Absoniters are not created; they are eventuated — they simply are. The Deity level of Ultimacy connotes a function in relation to absonite realities. No matter in what part of the master universe, whenever time and space are transcended, such an absonite phenomenon is an act of the Ultimacy of Deity.

     

  8. Thank you Bonita for not only this most recent reply, but thank you also for something you wrote about 8 years or so ago on the Urantia website (InVisionZone) regarding TUB teachings (and your commentary) on the cosmic mind – I have only just began reading that – very informative!

    Now that you have given much input into the topic of reincarnation from the point of view of TUB, and after my attempts to seriously consider what TUB contains & you all have written on this forum, I am willing to accept that what humans are experiencing is NOT EXACTLY true reincarnation, as TUB states. And ironically, while my most recent thoughts on how/why some humans have had such profound experiences that have led them to assume reincarnation (which I have not yet shared with you) actually fit fairly well with TUB, I don’t think hardcore supporters of TUB would fully agree with my current ideas.  For that reason, I hesitate to share the full extent of those ideas.

    But I will write something regarding a pattern I find throughout TUB, which may shed light on this subject.  People throughout history have shown that they can only handle so much truth, and higher beings have been relatively tolerant of that fact.  Thus, when people living hundreds and thousands of years ago mistakenly but understandably concluded that reincarnation was true, the basic attitude of higher beings was that it was a close enough approximation of the actual truth for their evolutionary level of understanding.  Likewise, even one of the most emphasized points made throughout TUB is the concept of the Universal Father, but even TUB admits that that concept is only the closest approximation to the actual truth that can be taught to us humans based on humanity’s level of understanding (as of the first half of the 1900s).  It’s also in part due to the limits of the English language.  I’m going to also share another important factor that I have learned in recent years – whenever information is “revealed” to humans from “higher sources”, those sources are sensitive to not only the limited understanding of the humans through which the information flows, but also the limited understanding of the original listeners of such revealed information is taken into consideration.  Thus, I doubt that those who heard and observed various entities communicating through the sleeping “chosen one” would have even thought to ask some of the questions I have asked in this forum, such as my question about simultaneous realities.  And that may be one of the main reasons it was NOT covered in TUB; likewise, I doubt that those same original listeners/observers would have even thought to ask about the concept of us humans being the “corpuscles of God” (to borrow a phrase from Edgar Cayce) .  If anyone thinks that is an outrageous concept – that we humans form microscopic parts of a God whom we cannot perceive with our 5 senses, then was Paul (in the Bible) completely wrong to tell the Greeks in Athens that “in God we live, move, and have our being?!”  What I am saying is that even TUB does NOT claim to be total, perfect truth that can never be revised.  TUB even states that some of the science it contains will eventually become outdated as humans continue to learn.  That’s an honest, realistic claim in TUB, and I am inclined to belief that it’s possible that other parts of TUB may also someday be revised as humans continue to learn; that’s why I won’t be dogmatic about what it contains, to the exclusion of everything else I have learned so far.

    TUB may NOT be exempt from the limitations I stated in the prior paragraph; HOWEVER, even with such limitations, TUB may still be the BEST source of revealed knowledge & wisdom that is capable of influencing the widest range of people with diverse backgrounds and various levels of understanding on Earth since the Urantia Papers were first produced.  Thus, I have NO problem recommending it to anyone and everyone.  And in my opinion, TUB (when compared to books that would fall into a similar genre) also has the distinct advantage of withstanding modern scrutiny.  (I can’t tell you how many times I have heard people unfairly criticizing the Bible for NOT withstanding modern scrutiny; for goodness sake, it was written for people thousands of years ago, when modern knowledge and modern scrutiny did NOT exist and was NOT expected.  It’s almost a miracle that it has lasted so long and positively influenced so many people throughout its existence!)  In contrast to TUB, while I may still value some of the teachings of Theosophy, it mostly only appeals to those who already accept the idea of Ageless Wisdom being taught by great world teachers/avatars at least once per zodiac age.  And for those who have held relatively traditional concepts of Christianity and the Bible as I did for many years, the readings of Edgar Cayce have been helpful to people like me who simply needed to expand their limited awareness in appropriate ways, but Cayce’s readings still only appeal to a relatively limited audience.  (Yes, there are always going to be people who take ideas to the extreme, but I am NOT referring to those people when expressing such generalizations; please learn to separate the wheat from the chaff, and don’t throw out the baby with the bath water!  And I don’t mean to purposely ignore other comparable sources of knowledge and wisdom; I’m simply not as familiar with other sources.

    Perhaps another time I will be more specific about my revised views of reincarnation.  By the way Bonita – I especially liked the quote (& imagery) of how physical reality is like the skeletal structure for the morontia reality!

     

  9. G’day everyone,

    Maybee you refered to this thread Michael?

    Here is the link.

    The cosmic mind. Bonita

  10. Thanks for the link André.  I forgot I wrote that.

  11. Regarding reincarnation, transmigration, etc, we’d be wise to take counsel from Jesus, whom we may assume was familiar with all religious development before he came to Urantia. He knew Urantia history and likely was the primary designer in partnership with his Paradise Mate (Nebadon Divine Minister) of all provisions for afterlife.

    Note his comment as they crossed a bridge into Sidon, “….., Jesus, among other things, said: “This world is only a bridge; you may pass over it, but you should not think to build a dwelling place upon it.” 156:2.1 There is no provision or design to remain on Urantia.

    He could not tell the Apostles and others all that he knew because they were not ready. Now with the Fifth Revelation, we are more certain of His plans and provisions; we are privileged to understand more. We are invited to greater comprehension of truth even though we are still in the “weakness of the flesh”, as he often characterized human life. We are to be stronger and more robust in truth seeking and in truth recognition. His Spirit of Truth chief mission is to teach us about the truths of the Father’s love and the Son’s mercy. These two are forward pointing personalities, ever shining forward motion pathways toward Paradise.

     

    A great question we had for studying Part IV was, ‘What does it truly mean for me to follow Jesus?’ Ancillary additional considerations include what to give up and what to add to life to follow him.

     

    As the Master often said, “Those who have ears to hear, let him hear.”

     

     

  12. Yes Andre, that is the website to which I referred that Bonita wrote years ago:-) I originally thought I would have time on weekends to write, but then things changed in my life, so now I write when I can. Hope everyone is doing well.

  13. . . .  but then things changed in my life, so now I write when I can. Hope everyone is doing well.

    Hope things are changing for the better.  Looking forward to your input.

  14. Hello all!  I did read your quotes and comments from years ago on “the mind”, Bonita – its was good!  As far as my personal life is concerned, it could always be better.  Personal relationships are quite challenging sometimes.  In my case, my parents’ marriage is following a similar path to my marriage, though my wife is the one treating me similar to the ways in which my father has been treating my mother.  The marriages have been SO parallel in SO many negative ways that I don’t see any good resolution to either, but I have further wondered if there are some life lessons I must learn, or whether I am meant to simply experience all of it, for I feel virtually unable to effect positive changes on either marriage.  About the same time that my father began his most recent marital affair on my mother, my wife began doing something similar to me!  So now I try to calmly make the best of those bad situations.  I think back to the previous forum discussion about karma, and I truly wonder if one lesson from this Earth life is for me to realize how wrong I was throughout my life to act as though relationships were somewhat disposable.  I don’t feel or act that way anymore, but I wonder if I had already set the wheel of karma in motion for myself in this life?!  I’m glad to have learned about the Mansion Worlds in TUB, for some mistakes I have made in this life can never be fixed in this life!  Sorry for not directly discussing reincarnation this time, but what I wrote this time does show why so people through our current dispensation expect some kind of fair resolution for mistakes we have all made, some of which cannot be resolved in our brief human lives on Earth.  Hence an understandable reason why many so people have chosen to believe in reincarnation, but if resolution truly occurs on the Mansion Worlds, so be it!

  15. Resolution rather than damnation!

    Indeed.

    The universe embraces all potential.  Each soul (and all experiential personalities) delivers the realization and creation of potential-in-time for the benefit of all and for eternity.  Deity conserves all potential in reality.

    Patience, mercy, and forgiveness conserves and extends potential.  It’s realization and actualization creates new potentials.

    The temporal nature of and indifference to reality of error and sin purifies potential by a universal filtration system that allows only that which is true, beautiful , and good to flow freely through time to affect and contribute to eternity to come by the experiential wisdom which originates in time.

    Or so I understand.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  16. Hi,

    … wondered if there are some life lessons I must learn.

    … TUB tells us Universe is a big school and we are all alternatively student/teacher.

    Every possible provision is made to qualify de various personalities of the universe for advancing service and improving function. The entire universe is once vast school.. 37:6.2

    Engage in a huge académic school, homeworks and evaluations are current achivements requirement.

    Personaly Michael, I ain’t paticulary bothered whatever/whenever/wherever/whoever is encountered as been set to educated myself. To experienced Truth. I learned to focus primary to my reactions on those issues. Will I choose good or bad . The consequences are out of my actions.

  17. About the same time that my father began his most recent marital affair on my mother, my wife began doing something similar to me!  So now I try to calmly make the best of those bad situations.

    Having been victimized by two spouses who cheated and lied, I think I can relate.  Moving on was hard but rewarding in every detail.  I’ve never been happier after walking away and leaving the evil and sin behind.  Of course it took a toll on the children, but a small one and a healable one.  We all got along and I pretended to like their father, when I was just tolerating him, for the sake of amity and peace.  But once they reached full adulthood, my kids saw the evil for themselves and understood why it all happened and now they know the depths of my disgust, and they think I’m justified in it.

    All I can say is that taking the path of truth, beauty and goodness, as best you can, will always bring happy results.  No one gets trapped in a wheel of karma unless they want to be there.  Just step out of it and watch it spin, but don’t take part in it. Bless it and kiss it good by. You cannot change people, all you can do is be a good person yourself.  Conflict is a great time to find truth, it’s there just waiting to be lived.  It’s part of the process of growth, so look forward to what you are becoming, not what you’ve been.

    Here are some inspiring quotes which have always helped me focus.  I’ve actually printed up a few on cards and carried them around with me during really troubling times, of which there have been many, many.

    159:3.7 Forewarn all believers regarding the fringe of conflict which must be traversed by all who pass from the life as it is lived in the flesh to the higher life as it is lived in the spirit. To those who live quite wholly within either realm, there is little conflict or confusion, but all are doomed to experience more or less uncertainty during the times of transition between the two levels of living. In entering the kingdom, you cannot escape its responsibilities or avoid its obligations, but remember: The gospel yoke is easy and the burden of truth is light.

    48:6.25  Even as mortals, so have these angels been father to many disappointments, and they will point out that sometimes your most disappointing disappointments have become your greatest blessings. Sometimes the planting of a seed necessitates its death, the death of your fondest hopes, before it can be reborn to bear the fruits of new life and new opportunity. And from them you will learn to suffer less through sorrow and disappointment, first, by making fewer personal plans concerning other personalities, and then, by accepting your lot when you have faithfully performed your duty. 

    100:5.2 The progression of religious growth leads from stagnation through conflict to co-ordination, from insecurity to undoubting faith, from confusion of cosmic consciousness to unification of personality, from the temporal objective to the eternal, from the bondage of fear to the liberty of divine sonship. 

    3:5.6 1. Is courage — strength of character — desirable? Then must man be reared in an environment which necessitates grappling with hardships and reacting to disappointments.

    3:5.8 3.Is hope—the grandeur of trust—desirable? Then human existence must constantly be confronted with insecurities and recurrent uncertainties.

    48:7.7 5. Difficulties may challenge mediocrity and defeat the fearful, but they only stimulate the true children of the Most Highs.

    48:7.14 12. The greatest affliction of the cosmos is never to have been afflicted. Mortals only learn wisdom by experiencing tribulation.

    48:7.18 16. You cannot perceive spiritual truth until you feelingly experience it, and many truths are not really felt except in adversity.

    48:7.24 22. The evolving soul is not made divine by what it does, but by what it strives to do.

     

  18. Thank you Bradly (welcome back!), Andre, & Bonita for encouragement each in your particular ways, yet all harmonious!  I wasn’t sure if I should even mention personal issues/challenges on this forum, but at the same time, learning is not merely analytical, and we humans are not merely machines. Bradly reminds us from TUB that only the aspects of our lives that are true, good, & beautiful will survive eternally. Andre reminds us that Earth life is like a school meant for experiential learning the good, the bad, & the indifferent. And Bonita blended her own heartfelt experiences with uplifting TUB quotes that remind us that personal growth often can only come from adversity.

    This is actually my 2nd marriage; my first one ended much quicker, though very similar patterns in both. One thing that struck me is how each person comes into a relationship with certain expectations related the type of relationship. For example, my first wife often argued with me, but when agreed to divorce, then she was very friendly & cooperative with me. I asked why she didn’t interact with me this way BEFORE filing for divorce. Without hesitation she replied, “No more obligations.” That surprised me, for she pretty much did whatever she wanted to do in our marriage whether I liked it or not. A similar scenario has occurred in my current marriage. So odd how quickly expectations can change when marriages officially start & end. (Yes Bradly, another example of how funny we super-monkeys are!)

    Here is what really surprised me – a few years passed without any contact with my first wife, the out of the blue, my ex-wife called me to say she missed my sense of humor, and she asked me if we really tried hard enough to make our marriage work! And my current wife was in my car sitting next to me when my ex-wife made that call to me! Talk about an awkward situation!  I could go on, but I wonder how situations like this will play out when we transition into the afterlife? Will there be some kind of replay of similar events to see if we will change our interactions for the better? Will those same beings be the ones with whom we experience similar roles once again? If not, how else would we make progress?! (By the way, isn’t that the context in which reincarnation seems to make sense to so many people over the centuries?!)

    I ask because TUB states it will be quite a while before we see our parents again, yet so much of who we became in life was a result of genetics & parental interaction with us. Then there is the statement in TUB that says eventually, humans on Earth will evolve to the same degree of advanced living that exists in the Mansion Worlds. At that point, do the mansion worlds cease to exist because they served their purposes? It seems odd that while no contact can occur between the living & the dead, somehow life on Earth will evolve to match life in the Mansion Worlds.

    Oh well, it’s almost 3am Eastern Standard Time, so I must try to sleep.

  19. It is progressive simply to learn what situations to avoid!!  Can one person fix what two or more disable/destroy?

    Wisdom is evolutionary and identical circumstances and intersections of choice do not recur I don’t think .

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  20. I’m still gradually reviewing so many older posts before I joined this forum to gain more insight as to how exactly people are wrong to claim reincarnation. Are the 7 psychic circles the domains in which the 7 adjutant spirits are operating? For there was a TUB quote that gave me the impression that our mortal perceptions could well be jumping to inaccurate conclusions regarding reincarnation as a result of having only acquired/mastered the first 5 psychic levels, thus lacking wisdom & worship. Also, since there are various higher beings co-evolving/learning with us, might there be occasional glitches in the system at those higher levels that some humans are accidentally perceiving as past lives? Likewise, just as our emotions can cloud our judgements at the initial mortal levels of existence, could something like that be a misinterpretation of what TUB refers to as such amazingly similar channels/patterns of thoughts/emotions between mortal beings? Bye for now.

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