martine wrote: And, stupid as it is, history is full of examples of things having to resolve into a catastrophe. Our Civil War was a good example of that.The only thing resolved by the American Civil war was the issue over states vs. federal rights, and that was only partially solved by maintaining the union. We’re still fighting over state vs. federal rights. Slavery was not the reason for the war; it became an issue after the Battle of Bull Run. And the war did absolutely nothing to end bigotry; in fact, bigotry got worse after the war and is still a huge issue today, turn the TV on anytime to see it in action. In a sense, we’re still fighting that war today. Also, it was neither the Civil War nor the Emancipation Proclamation which freed the slaves; it was the 13th amendment to the Constitution, which was ratified 8 months after the end of the war.well saidhowever in terms of bigotry- I see it more as people slowly becoming aware that not all races are compatible.for those that believe that multiculturalism is the new utopia- it hurts.incompatible is not hatred or bigoted.
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"The Book belongs to the era immediately to follow…."
242 posts · 12 participants · started Jan 20, 2015, 5:30 PM
I don’t think it’s a matter of some sort of genetic incompatibility. If this were the case you would see it in children. I’ve spent a lot of time in elementary schools with thoroughly mixed racial makeups, and you just don’t see racism. There are definitely differences and different preferences, that’s for sure, and these may become more salient as children begin to identify with various aesthetics in music and other art, and mating. But there’s no indication that as soon as these children become adolescents and adults that one group feels it is has a right and privilege to start lynching the other groups, or sending them to death camps. That sort of thing has to be taught, implicitly or explicitly by the dominant culture.
And you’re right, the Civil War is still with us, both in the matter of so-called ‘states rights’ and racism – which of course is not confined to the southern states.
The South claimed it was their right, as states, to own slaves. If slavery weren’t in the mix, there would not have been a war. It was about money and profits at the end of the day. The Southern elites needed slaves on the plantations to turn a good profit. I don’t think it was spun that way when they sold the idea of war to the rest of the people. Then framing it as a right of the state against the federal government sounded a bit more noble.
The Urantia book brings our attention to many racial differences that can only be described as genetic. Otherwise the technique of eugenics the revealators tell us is the only way we can improve the human race, would have no meaning.
its our responsibility to improve the human race and recognizing what needs to be improved and how to go about it will challenge us all.
its our responsibility to improve the human race and recognizing what needs to be improved and how to go about it will challenge us all.
In the Urantia Book there is one notation for “eugenics” which is found in the following UB quote:
(1220.3) 111:4.4 The inner and the outer worlds have a different set of values. Any civilization is in jeopardy when three quarters of its youth enter materialistic professions and devote themselves to the pursuit of the sensory activities of the outer world. Civilization is in danger when youth neglect to interest themselves in ethics, sociology, eugenics, philosophy, the fine arts, religion, and cosmology.
Yet when it is read and assumed as a noun, which would imply racial control, selective breading, it would not fit the other words used wherein “eugenics” is used, where if presented as a noun, it would be out of place with the rest, where the rest are the study of, and when used with neglected interests, of basics which form “civilization”, the word should not be assumed as a noun.
It would best be broken down as “eu-gen-ics” where “eu-” – “a combining form meaning “good,” “well,” occurring chiefly in words of Greek origin ( eupepsia); in scientific coinages, especially taxonomic names, it often has the sense “true, genuine” ( eukaryote)”, and “-gen” – “a combining form meaning “that which produces,” used in the formation of compound words: endogen; hydrogen”, and “-ics” – “a suffix of nouns that denote a body of facts, knowledge, principles, etc., usually corresponding to adjectives ending in -ic, or -ical: ethics; physics; politics; tactics.”
Where if associated with genetics would be the study of, which would indicate to understand why there are assumed or are defects in the genetic structure making up the human material body, and to ascertain a possible cure in their proper manipulation.
Because if one actually looks at genetic breading as a possible solution to these problems, one would find that it would be impossible, at this stage of the game, to even select, what would be considered as perfect candidates for parenting perfect children, because many more genes stay dormant for generations before surfacing, from combined chromosomes where many of these issues are associated with the “X” chromosome, verses the “Y”. If we can determine why these chromosomes have defects and isolate them prior to their activation or better to correct them after the fact, which would give us more knowledge of why, then this would fit the usage of “eugenics” as used in the UB, with the rest of the words used.
If you wish to control something or someone, without knowing, or be willing to suffer the consequences of “overcontrolling”, then the more power to you.
- MidiChlorian wrote: Because if one actually looks at genetic breading as a possible solution to these problems, one would find that it would be impossible, at this stage of the game, to even select, what would be considered as perfect candidates for parenting perfect children, because. . . .And because the revelators tell us it would be disastrous.64:6:32 Stronger and better races are to be had from the interbreeding of diverse peoples when these different races are carriers of superior inheritance factors. And the Urantia races would have benefited by such an early amalgamation provided such a conjoint people could have been subsequently effectively upstepped by a thoroughgoing admixture with the superior Adamic stock. The attempt to execute such an experiment on Urantia under present racial conditions would be highly disastrous.
- Bonita wrote: Secular humanism is another thing I don’t understand.What is secular humanism? From the Internet:
- humanism, with regard in particular to the belief that humanity is capable of morality and self-fulfillment without belief in God.
- especially : humanism viewed as a system of values and beliefs that are opposed to the values and beliefs of traditional religions.
- Secular humanism refers to a branch of humanism that is based on exclusively secular principles.
- Secular Humanism is an outgrowth of eighteenth century enlightenment rationalism and nineteenth century freethought.
- any set of beliefs that promotes human values without specific allusion to religious doctrines.
- An outlook or philosophy that advocates human rather than religious values
- Secular humanists believe that this is the only life of which we have certain knowledge and that we owe it to ourselves and others to make it the best life possible
If, for the past 300 years, Western civilization has become increasingly secular, perhaps secularism is an impetus for the “Word made Book.” Perhaps the struggle is between those who are spirit led, and. those who are not.
155:6:11 Never forget there is only one adventure which is more satisfying and thrilling than the attempt to discover the will of the living God, and that is the supreme experience of honestly trying to do that divine will. And fail not to remember that the will of God can be done in any earthly occupation. Some callings are not holy and others secular. All things are sacred in the lives of those who are spirit led; that is, subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness — justice. The spirit which my Father and I shall send into the world is not only the Spirit of Truth but also the spirit of idealistic beauty.The gigantic struggle:195:4:5 Religion is now confronted by the challenge of a new age of scientific minds and materialistic tendencies. In this gigantic struggle between the secular and the spiritual, the religion of Jesus will eventually triumph. - Mara wrote: What is secular humanism?
Secular Humanism: Humanism, with regard in particular to the belief that humanity is capable of morality and self-fulfillment without belief in God.
Humanism: A belief that stresses the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasizes common human needs, and seeks solely rational ways of solving human problems.
I think the ideological struggle of the current age might be summed up by the following quote:
99.4.9 Transition is always accompanied by confusion, and there will be little tranquillity in the religious world until the great struggle between the three contending philosophies of religion is ended: 1. The spiritistic belief (in a providential Deity) of many religions. 2. The humanistic and idealistic belief of many philosophies. 3. The mechanistic and naturalistic conceptions of many sciences.
MidiChlorian wrote: Because if one actually looks at genetic breading as a possible solution to these problems, one would find that it would be impossible, at this stage of the game, to even select, what would be considered as perfect candidates for parenting perfect children, because. . . .
And because the revelators tell us it would be disastrous.Well it could not be too much of a disaster if a couple looked at their family histories and decided to not have children because of a genetic disorder – we might be able to cure cancer doing something like that.
Wasn’t it the genetic characteristics of the Jews that Mac looked at when he chose them to carry his message?
We can do better than jumping into the multicultural cesspool without any thought whatsoever and many disorders can be eliminated imho.
ITs a start anyway and yeah, I would approach it within my own race to begin with. Improve and get the best out of what we have before we try to improve from blending. Disaster looms because of lack of an altruistic approach.
Well it could not be too much of a disaster if a couple looked at their family histories and decided to not have children because of a genetic disorder – we might be able to cure cancer doing something like that.
I don’t think that the “disaster” as mentioned would have anything to do with whether or not a couple decided not to have children, for various reasons, which they think might cause issues with offspring. But, the “disaster” which may associate with this UB statement would be more in line with selective breeding where in not to distant history was a predominant thought in Germany, where this type of selection was a fact, and for a specific purpose in mind. As far as “cancer” is concerned, it has been determined that most all cancers are already in the human body in forms of viruses and for various reasons are activated. I could state additional information but this would be detrimental to current health care for those who suffer from terminal cancer.
However, there is more on the lines of blood testing, which was performed earlier but found to not be a proven test to avoid various diseases, but still may show itself to a viable science.
As to your other mention of the genetics of the Jew’s, where I’m not sure that that it a viable factor today, because in the resent past it was a custom for Jew’s to stay within their own faith when pairing but over many years of close interbreeding, they found that this was a cause of many ailments which are now being changed with the encouragement for Jew’s to pair outside of their immediate blood lines. Not to mention that in those days as mentioned by the UB, the Jew’s where of mixed lineage and it was not until much later when they started to think that they wanted to keep their lines more pure, which later, as mentioned, became a problem.
99.4.9 Transition is always accompanied by confusion, and there will be little tranquillity in the religious world until the great struggle between the three contending philosophies of religion is ended: 1. The spiritistic belief (in a providential Deity) of many religions. 2. The humanistic and idealistic belief of many philosophies. 3. The mechanistic and naturalistic conceptions of many sciences.
So, is the struggle about philosophy after all – the contending philosophies of religion? I put it another way and made a list of the contenting philosophies:
- (many) religions of the spiritistic belief (in a providential Deity)\
- (many) philosophies of the humanistic and idealistic belief
- (many) sciences of mechanistic and naturalistic conceptions
Looks to me like the list is weighted two to one against the “spiritistic belief in a providential Deity.” Do you think this means many “philosophies of humanistic and idealistic belief”, and, many “sciences of mechanistic and naturalistic conceptions” have the upper hand right now with the people of our world? Seem so, which is another way of noting how secular are the times in which we live.
Disaster in my mind is to make up so many excuses so as to inhibit ourselves to the point that we do nothing.
I applaud the German people for making an effort to improve their race.
How would you suggest that we improve the human race? What other method is available to us other than eugenics? Everything human is genetic.
With sincerity, prayer, honest altruistic intentions and hard lessons learned from an honest unbiased review of history we can make decisions that will improve us. To allow histories mistakes to inhibit us is the real disaster.
We should consider carefully and try to fathom to the extent possible the concept of mind over matter. We know its true and it will take much effort to involve ourselves in it, here and in the higher spiritual lifes of our future. Its our destiny.
Disaster in my mind is to make up so many excuses so as to inhibit ourselves to the point that we do nothing.
You speak as if you think that there is only one way to do something, assuming that you know what disaster were to come, but if you look at that state of the world today, and the way which we have taught our youth to mimic intellect and the ability to fix that which may go wrong by sticking their heads into a view screen in order to find solutions for the problems which their parents have caused, don’t be surprise that you may be looking for a magic solution, or to repeat the failures of the past. Many here talk about how to get the Urantia Book into the hands of our youth, well getting it into their hands is not the problem, but getting them to understand what really is in this Book, is a problem, when those that who profess in standing by and doing nothing in educating them to be able to handle life’s problems, which can be technical as well as philosophical.
If one could look into the future you would see that we have created a monster where our youth only knows how to use the technology of today, but do not know how to fix that technology, should something go wrong. In the ancient of days, a period which spans back over two hundred years, the minds which created the basics of this technology actually know how to think and had an ambition to improve things for the future to build on. Today, our mechanics only know how to replace parts until they fix the issue at hand, but have no idea, why or what they are doing. That’s the disaster waiting for them.
I applaud the German people for making an effort to improve their race.
Evidently you did not get gist of my presenting this, for my mother was one chosen for such a program, where was it not up to her mother, would she now have been known as a breading machine for the Third Reich, and followed many others down a path of deception, and disaster.
How would you suggest that we improve the human race? What other method is available to us other than eugenics? Everything human is genetic.
If that’s what you think then we’re doomed before anyone even has a change to improve anything. By the way, who says that the human race needs improving? It is the individual people who need improving, and that can be done through education and selfless devotion to our brothers and sisters who will be here long after you and I have left this plane of existence. Also, if everything human is genetic, then even the way we think, would be in jeopardy of default, and having a Book like this one, is just a futile effort in vanity.
With sincerity, prayer, honest altruistic intentions and hard lessons learned from an honest unbiased review of history we can make decisions that will improve us. To allow histories mistakes to inhibit us is the real disaster.
Well how’s that working for us, where the only action we know is what was done in the past. So, what are you doing from repeating the past. Or for that mater in correcting all of the false information which has been presented from the past which was presented to line the pockets of those honest men who have paved their way with good intentions.
We should consider carefully and try to fathom to the extent possible the concept of mind over matter. We know its true and it will take much effort to involve ourselves in it, here and in the higher spiritual lifes of our future. Its our destiny.
Yes we should consider carefully because as it turns out our minds don’t even know what “matter” is, and if you actually think that Our Father is going to just hand over all the plans to the universe just because we can say that we have learned a “higher spiritual” life, you don’t know Him like I know Him. He will attempt to teach you how to solve the problems, because if you are given everything on a silver platter you won’t appreciate what He has given you. You have to at least attempt to make an effort. This Book is one starting point.
The science in this Book is so sophisticated that it amazes me that no one has really attempted to read like it was meant to be read. There are architectural plans listed in the Book which if understood, could build an optical pump which could be used for communicating and seeing into the cosmos or into the microscopic parts of an atom. Not to mention that this same apparatus could be used for power and travel but there are other things in the Book which need to be learned in order to be able to exist in these other realms. All that one has to do is to open your mind to the possibilities, but as they say you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. To bad for those old dogs, maybe the younger pups will learn better.
So you don’t think the human race needs improving?
sorry, I have difficulty following you so can you keep it simple?
Looks to me like the list is weighted two to one against the “spiritistic belief in a providential Deity.” Do you think this means many “philosophies of humanistic and idealistic belief”, and, many “sciences of mechanistic and naturalistic conceptions” have the upper hand right now with the people of our world? Seem so, which is another way of noting how secular are the times in which we live.
All I can say is that religion, philosophy and science need to be in balance and they are not in balance today. If anything, I would say that the secular humanists have the upper hand and are trying desperately to have ultimate power over both religion and science. When society accept a philosophy that recognizes God, it will give up the power struggle and, instead of dominating religion and science, will do what philosophy is supposed to do: interpret and integrate the two.
There were so many ideological struggles in the 19th and 20th centuries, many of which are still with us, it’s hard to discern. At the time of the writing, there was communism and facism and democracy and autocracy, all competing for hearts and minds and power. Religion and science were polarizing to opposing ends of an ideology spectrum. Agrarianism was replaced by industrialization and urbanization. And technology was beginning to connect diverse and dispersed people with telegraph, telephone, radio, movies, TV by orbital satellites after sending humanity to the moon…and back, to where now all nationalistic barriers and barriers of distance are being destroyed by instant connection/communication and full access to planetary knowledge in hand held data base devices. People can no longer be isolated by borders, languages, cultures, religions, national leaders or politics, and other forms of isolationism and top down control (certainly, this is a trajectory more than, as yet, an absolutism but the direction is clear and the result to date amazing and world changing).
Just watched many specials on the Hubble telescope and tend to agree with the opinion that of all these, it is the struggle between godless science and scienceless religion that may be the “struggle” that is most likely to change the future. Hubble is destroying godless scientific theories faster than any prior application of the scientific method and leaving science with but one conclusion, eventually; that the universes are created, organized, and managed by laws which will come to eliminate big bangs, accidents, and the organization of chaos from nothing by energy and gravity. Science has a long record of God believers at its cutting edge, even into the 20th century. But something, perhaps the atom (?), sent the scientific method away from God as the source and center. For religion’s part, it has resisted science since the apple fell from the tree and went berserk when evolution came to town.
Religion must embrace the physics and evolution as tools of creationism and science must accept origin and organization of life and matter and energy by the first source and center. I tend to agree that this is the most important ideological struggle we face today when viewed as that which presents the greatest obstacle to the greatest progress in planetary, evolutionary progress.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
But something, perhaps the atom (?), sent the scientific method away from God as the source and center.
If that is true it puzzles me because how could anyone conclude that these fundamental building blocks are not engineered is beyond me. Only humans can be engineers I suppose. And we do have extraordinary minds like Hawkings that seem to be devoted to proving that matter comes into existance without God. It puzzles me why brilliant minds appear to be obcessed with this as opposed to just doing science. Its like denial for the sake of denial. However, on the bright side, sometimes brilliant minds need lots of convincing, or lots of failure before truth trumps supposed facts and beliefs.
So you don’t think the human race needs improving? sorry,
I have difficulty following you so can you keep it simple?
I thought I did, NelsonG, in the following:
[. . .] By the way, who says that the human race needs improving? It is the individual people who need improving, and that can be done through education and selfless devotion to our brothers and sisters who will be here long after you and I have left this plane of existence. [. . .]
If by saying that the whole of humanity “needs improving”, one could just go back to the Biblical story of the flood, but at the same time, one seed can make a change, where that seed, when fertilized properly, can grow into many other plants which produce seeds which may, over time, grow beyond the capability for weeds to grow up between. That seed was the message that Jesus brought forth over two thousand years ago, but unfortunately what grow up from that seed was misused to plant ideologies which fostered specific principles which where spawned into idolisms for the benefit of only a few elect, who had that means of education, which was directed away from truth, in its time.
So, in order to change the future, one must educate the future, and not by forcing fallacies, which have proven not to work, and which seem to repeat themselves, over and over again, just with a different twist of the times, upon those who will build the future. The building is only as good as its foundation, and if we continue to remodel the building without taking into account what the foundation is, it will never stand.
Darwin proposed a theory from observation, others took this observation and built on it to introduce the theory of germ plasm, and still others attempt to present genetics as a backbone from Darwin’s theories, yet when presented with new thought, who opposed him? Those, who would believe in magic.
But something, perhaps the atom (?), sent the scientific method away from God as the source and center.
We have learned to split the atom, but we have not really understood what lies at the “source and center” of the atom, which is, in itself, also presented in the Urantia Book at the “ultimaton”, where is it not also a “scientific” approach to how it is or was that God created?
The God factor in science is merely the unknown factor, which in most circles has become known as, the “God Particle.”
Sorry midi
i find it too difficult to have a conversation with you.
- Mara wrote: Looks to me like the list is weighted two to one against the “spiritistic belief in a providential Deity.”I thought about what I said (above) and now realize I am wrong, because no proportional measurements are provided in the reference. So I withdraw my guess that the list is weighted two to one.Urantia is disadvantaged by the fact that we do not have a standing Planetary Prince or a standing Material Son and Daughter who, on normal worlds would serve and minister there until the ages of light and life. (55:7:2) Biologically speaking, the developmental progress of the Urantia races was nearing its apex when Adam and Eve came. (73:0:1) Well, that dispensation went wrong. And yet we can view these disadvantages as advantages. (50:7:1) And are we not the most fortunate in all of Nebadon to have hosted Michael our Creator Son on his seventh bestowal mission? (120:0:2)In my research I discovered Urantia is one full dispensation behind in that we are in the post Adamic dispensation..52:3:6 The result of the gift of the Adamic life plasm to the mortal races is an immediate upstepping of intellectual capacity and an acceleration of spiritual progress. There is usually some physical improvement also. On an average world the post-Adamic dispensation is an age of great invention, energy control, and mechanical development. This is the era of the appearance of multiform manufacture and the control of natural forces; it is the golden age of exploration and the final subduing of the planet. Much of the material progress of a world occurs during this time of the inauguration of the development of the physical sciences, just such an epoch as Urantia is now experiencing. Your world is a full dispensation and more behind the average planetary schedule.By the end of the Adamic dispensation on a normal planet the races are practically blended, so that it can be truly proclaimed that “God has made of one blood all the nations,” and that his Son “has made of one color all peoples.” The color of such an amalgamated race is somewhat of an olive shade of the violet hue, the racial “white” of the spheres.<…>The post-Adamic epoch is the dispensation of internationalism. With the near completion of the task of race blending, nationalism wanes, and the brotherhood of man really begins to materialize. Representative government begins to take the place of the monarchial or paternal form of rulership. The educational system becomes world-wide, and gradually the languages of the races give way to the tongue of the violet people. Universal peace and co-operation are seldom attained until the races are fairly well blended, and until they speak a common language.Etc. etc.
