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Need clarification on the rebellion papers…

278 posts · 10 participants · started Aug 22, 2014, 2:00 AM

  1. Brooklyn_born wrote:  You are right, and honestly Im not even putting much stock into it. it is not something I am internalizing. It is really my curiosity that has me looking into that event.

    That’s a relief.  Here’s something else to ponder about this sentence: “But my most exhilarating moment was the thrilling adventure connected with the Lucifer rebellion when, as second seraphic commander, I refused to participate in the projected insult to Michael; and the powerful rebels sought my destruction by means of the liaison forces they had arranged.”

    You are contending that there is sequentiality in the sentence with everything after the semicolon occurring in response to everything before the semicolon.  And I’m contending the opposite. But here’s another option: since Manotia chose to use the word AND, perhaps both parts of that sentence were happening simultaneously, meaning there is no sequentiality.  It was just one long drawn out affair between her and the liaison forces, she refusing and they trying to persuade her to participate, back and forth, back and forth until she no longer entertained them and shut the door of her heart on them, as in this quote:

    43:4.9  Since the triumph of Christ, all Norlatiadek is being cleansed of sin and rebels. Sometime before Michael’s death in the flesh the fallen Lucifer’s associate, Satan, sought to attend such an Edentia conclave, but the solidification of sentiment against the archrebels had reached the point where the doors of sympathy were so well-nigh universally closed that there could be found no standing ground for the Satania adversaries. When there exists no open door for the reception of evil, there exists no opportunity for the entertainment of sin. The doors of the hearts of all Edentia closed against Satan; he was unanimously rejected by the assembled System Sovereigns, and it was at this time that the Son of Man “beheld Satan fall as lightning from heaven.”
    It seems to me that anybody can close their door to the reception of evil and deny entertaining sophistry.  I don’t think Master Physical Controllers have anything to do with that.  It only takes a personal decision of infallible loyalty, which is Manotia did , and that slammed the door on the liaison forces.
  2. TUB wrote: Do you guys think its crazy to assume that this soul liaison or mind liaison may be some intimate connection between 2 or more souls, or 2 or more minds?

    Liaison between the soul and the Adjuster is as intimate as you can get.

    Your wrong for two reasons. Number one the adjusters of the Staff stay back on the mansion worlds, they don’t have their adjusters. The second reason is that this paragraph is obviously talking about the staff members trying a liaison with one another. They even say that these interactions where (supposedly nonsexual) why would they even say something like that if it was between a staff member and an adjuster.  Obviously there can’t be anything sexual happening between an adjuster and a person. The authors also say that this happened between a “Danite pair”. Last time I checked a Adjuster is not a Danite.

    (744.7) 66:4.8 2. The one hundred were material but superhuman beings, having been reconstituted on Urantia as unique men and women of a high and special order.

    (744.8) 66:4.9 This group, while enjoying provisional citizenship on Jerusem, were as yet unfused with their Thought Adjusters; and when they volunteered and were accepted for planetary service in liaison with the descending orders of sonship, their Adjusters were detached. But these Jerusemites were superhuman beings — they possessed souls of ascendant growth. During the mortal life in the flesh the soul is of embryonic estate; it is born (resurrected) in the morontia life and experiences growth through the successive morontia worlds. And the souls of the Caligastia one hundred had thus expanded through the progressive experiences of the seven mansion worlds to citizenship status on Jerusem.

    (744.9) 66:4.10 In conformity to their instructions the staff did not engage in sexual reproduction, but they did painstakingly study their personal constitutions, and they carefully explored every imaginable phase of intellectual (mind) and morontia (soul) liaison. And it was during the thirty-third year of their sojourn in Dalamatia, long before the wall was completed, that number two and number seven of the Danite group accidentally discovered a phenomenon attendant upon the liaison of their morontia selves (supposedly nonsexual and nonmaterial); and the result of this adventure proved to be the first of the primary midway creatures. This new being was wholly visible to the planetary staff and to their celestial associates but was not visible to the men and women of the various human tribes. Upon authority of the Planetary Prince the entire corporeal staff undertook the production of similar beings, and all were successful, following the instructions of the pioneer Danite pair. Thus did the Prince’s staff eventually bring into being the original corps of 50,000 primary midwayers.

     

  3. But here’s another option: since Manotia chose to use the word AND, perhaps both parts of that sentence were happening simultaneously, meaning there is no sequentiality. It was just one long drawn out affair between her and the liaison forces, she refusing and they trying to persuade her to participate, back and forth, back and forth until she no longer entertained them and shut the door of her heart on them, as in this quote:
    Definitely a plausible scenario.  Sometimes I wonder if I consult earlier epochal revelations that perhaps they could shed some light on this topic. The Book of Enoch goes into the war in Heaven. Have you ever heard of the Book of Enoch? If so, what is your opinion on it? It speaks about creation of Midwayers besides other events mentioned in TUB.

    BB

  4. TUB wrote: Well you picked up listening to the conversation half way through, earlier in the broadcast Chris touches on this paragraph.

    What does that quote have to do with Master Physical Controllers?

     

    Okay I will explain the logic of the conversation again. Earlier in the broadcast Chris went over the paragraph that talks about the rebels thinking that they can debar the Ancient of Days and Executioners and make it so that these beings have no power over them. Chris noted how foolish that was. Later on down the road when he goes over the Monatia paragraph, he notes how foolish the rebels are for thinking that they can use liaison forces to harm another being because a Master Physical Controller can hold them in check just like an Ancient of Days can hold them in check. The connection is that all of these powerful beings can hold the rebels in check. These powerful beings will allow them to spread their ideas, but they are not actually going to let them do whatever they want.

  5. That’s a relief.  Here’s something else to ponder about this sentence: “But my most exhilarating moment was the thrilling adventure connected with the Lucifer rebellion when, as second seraphic commander, I refused to participate in the projected insult to Michael; and the powerful rebels sought my destruction by means of the liaison forces they had arranged.”

    You are contending that there is sequentiality in the sentence with everything after the semicolon occurring in response to everything before the semicolon.  And I’m contending the opposite. But here’s another option: since Manotia chose to use the word AND, perhaps both parts of that sentence were happening simultaneously, meaning there is no sequentiality.  It was just one long drawn out affair between her and the liaison forces, she refusing and they trying to persuade her to participate, back and forth, back and forth until she no longer entertained them and shut the door of her heart on them, as in this quote:

     

    I think its trivially obvious that there is a sequentiality here. Of course the rebels sought her destruction after she turned them down. That is exactly how the paragraph reads.  They got rejected and wanted to destroy her as a result. The sophistries they were spreading where not meant to destroy people (at least in their minds). Their sophistries where meant to give beings liberty. Them tempting her with sophistry is not what was meant to destroy her. If they honestly thought that the sophistries they believed in where destroying people they wouldn’t believe in them in the first place lol.

  6. Your wrong for two reasons. Number one the adjusters of the Staff stay back on the mansion worlds, they don’t have their adjusters.

    Scott,  I’m talking about you and your Adjuster, me and my Adjuster.  I was not referring to the Prince’s staff, but merely making a comment on the most intimate relationship of all, which is in essence, a true romance.  It was meant as a side note.

    143:7.8 Worship is the act of the son’s personal communion with the divine Father, the assumption of refreshing, creative, fraternal, and romantic attitudes by the human soul-spirit.

  7. Scott,  I’m talking about you and your Adjuster, me and my Adjuster.  I was not referring to the Prince’s staff, but merely making a comment on the most intimate relationship of all, which is in essence, a true romance.  It was meant as a side note.

     

    So you do think that the Princes Staff had liaison with each other?

  8. Have you ever heard of the Book of Enoch? If so, what is your opinion on it?

    Yes, I’ve read one translation of it.  I think it is a mixture of myth and truth.  I wouldn’t recommend using it as a source of truth though.   It’s too easy to twist myth and truth together and come up with something totally ridiculous, like Master Physical Controllers zapping negative overlapping energies throughout the cosmos, whatever that is.

  9. TUB wrote: . . . he notes how foolish the rebels are for thinking that they can use liaison forces to harm another being because a Master Physical Controller can hold them in check just like an Ancient of Days can hold them in check. The connection is that all of these powerful beings can hold the rebels in check.

    And just how do the Master Physical Controllers hold them in check?  Would you mind supplying a quote for that?

  10. TUB wrote: . . . he notes how foolish the rebels are for thinking that they can use liaison forces to harm another being because a Master Physical Controller can hold them in check just like an Ancient of Days can hold them in check. The connection is that all of these powerful beings can hold the rebels in check.

    And just how do the Master Physical Controllers hold them in check?  Would you mind supplying a quote for that?

     

    Well think about this. They can encircuit a star as Chris mentioned. In just mere power they make any of the rebels look puny. A lowly angel would be like a little ant standing next to one of these beings. These beings also don’t rebel. There are also a lot of them and they can travel nearly as fast as a Solitary Messenger. If there was a rebel being threatening to use energy in a way that would harm another being these beings could easily step in and contain any rebel. It wouldn’t require any effort on their part at all. The power of a lowly angel is nothing compared to the power of a Master Physical Controller.

    (326.4) 29:4.22 3. Energy Transformers. The number of these beings in a superuniverse is unbelievable. There are almost one million in Satania alone, and the usual quota is one hundred for each inhabited world.

    (324.3) 29:4.1 These beings are the mobile subordinates of the Supreme Power Centers. The physical controllers are endowed with capabilities of individuality metamorphosis of such a nature that they can engage in a remarkable variety of autotransport, being able to traverse local space at velocities approaching the flight of Solitary Messengers

     

  11. TUB wrote:  Their sophistries where meant to give beings liberty. Them tempting her with sophistry is not what was meant to destroy her. If they honestly thought that the sophistries they believed in where destroying people they wouldn’t believe in them in the first place lol.

    And right there you have direct, indisputable evidence of twisted, perverted, warped and backward thinking.  Lucifer contended that mind is infallible, but his own mind defeated him by turning reality inside out and upside down.  It’s no wonder the Union of Days warned that all was not at peace in Lucifer’s mind.  He had turned everything topsy turvy, thinking that oppression was liberty and true liberty was oppression – totally backwards.

  12. Have you ever heard of the Book of Enoch? If so, what is your opinion on it?

    Yes, I’ve read one translation of it. I think it is a mixture of myth and truth. I wouldn’t recommend using it as a source of truth though. It’s too easy to twist myth and truth together and come up with something totally ridiculous, like Master Physical Controllers zapping negative overlapping energies throughout the cosmos, whatever that is.

    Okay. The reason why I asked is because there is a section that speaks on evil spirits proceeding from the bodies of the giants. The giants would be equivalent to the ascendant citizens, the Prince’s staff, and the evil spirits would be the midwayers.

    BB

  13. TUB wrote: Their sophistries where meant to give beings liberty. Them tempting her with sophistry is not what was meant to destroy her. If they honestly thought that the sophistries they believed in where destroying people they wouldn’t believe in them in the first place lol.

    And right there you have direct, indisputable evidence of twisted, perverted, warped and backward thinking. Lucifer contended that mind is infallible, but his own mind defeated him by turning reality inside out and upside down. It’s no wonder the Union of Days warned that all was not at peace in Lucifer’s mind. He had turned everything topsy turvy, thinking that oppression was liberty and true liberty was oppression – totally backwards.

    What do you mean? The notion that mind is infallible is the sophistry. The belief that all beings have “equality of mind” is the sophistry. Those beliefs are the death and destruction. The notion that celestial beings should have the right to self-govern is another one of the sophistries. The notion that humans don’t need to go through the evolutionary process is a sophistry. Lucifer convinced himself of all of these things. He thought these ideas would give celestial beings liberty. He didn’t actually want every being destroyed. He even turned away when Jesus was being beaten. These beings wanted everyone to feel “special” and be “special” and they wanted everyone to live in their version of utopia where they were all their own God.

  14. So you do think that the Princes Staff had liaison with each other?

    In what respect?  Certainly they had close working relationships, which is one meaning of the word liaison.  They may have functioned as mediators between different groups, which is another meaning of the word liaison.  If you mean sex, then no, because we are told that the birth of the primary midwayers did not involve sex.  I think what you’re asking is did they have romantic involvement with one another.  Probably.  Do you think that romance is necessary for the birth of a midwayer?  The text doesn’t say that, but one assumes it was so.  But I don’t think you can assume it was sexual romance.   Human sex attitudes are . . . well . . . human.  The Prince’s staff was superhuman and so was the birth of the primary midwayers, presumably being a product of the union of their superhuman soul selves.  (Which incidentally means that their personalities were fully identified with their souls, leaving their material minds out of it and adding the missing ingredient of personality.  Previously they had tried only mind or soul liaison which did not include personality. Mind melding on the material or soul level didn’t work without personality involvement.)

  15. TUB wrote:  They can encircuit a star as Chris mentioned.

    Where does it say that?  Would you please supply the quote?

    TUB wrote:  If there was a rebel being threatening to use energy in a way that would harm another being these beings could easily step in and contain any rebel.
    Where does it say that?  Would you please supply the quote?
  16. In conformity to their instructions the staff did not engage in sexual reproduction, but they did painstakingly study their personal constitutions, and they carefully explored every imaginable phase of intellectual (mind) and morontia (soul) liaison. And it was during the thirty-third year of their sojourn in Dalamatia, long before the wall was completed, that number two and number seven of the Danite group accidentally discovered a phenomenon attendant upon the liaison of their morontia selves (supposedly nonsexual and nonmaterial);

     

    This quote doesn’t actually state that the (soul) liaison failed though. In fact it eventually worked, it just took 33 years. I don’t think you can have a soul liaison without using your personality. I imagine these beings where functioning at a level where they were always using their personality.

  17. The notion that mind is infallible is the sophistry. The belief that all beings have “equality of mind” is the sophistry. Those beliefs are the death and destruction.

    Exactly, and that is how Lucifer’s liaisons tried to destroy Manotia, by sophistry. Glad you agree.

  18. I imagine these beings where functioning at a level where they were always using their personality.

    Precisely! You imagine.

  19. I imagine these beings where functioning at a level where they were always using their personality.

    Precisely! You imagine.  Imagination can be very creative.

  20. TUB wrote: They can encircuit a star as Chris mentioned.

    Where does it say that? Would you please supply the quote?

    TUB wrote: If there was a rebel being threatening to use energy in a way that would harm another being these beings could easily step in and contain any rebel.
    Where does it say that? Would you please supply the quote?
    Well to answer the question about the sun….
    41:2.4 The circuitizing and channelizing of energy is supervised by the five hundred thousand living and intelligent energy manipulators scattered throughout Satania. Through the action of such physical controllers the supervising power centers are in complete and perfect control of a majority of the basic energies of space, including the emanations of highly heated orbs and the dark energy-charged spheres. This group of living entities can mobilize, transform, transmute, manipulate, and transmit nearly all of the physical energies of organized space.
    29:3.6 The directors, centers, and controllers of power have nothing to do with anything in all creation except power, material or semiphysical energy; they do not originate it, but they do modify, manipulate, and directionize it. Neither do they have anything whatever to do with physical gravity except to resist its drawing power. Their relation to gravity is wholly negative.
    The sun is made up of physical energy last time I checked, these controllers circuitize all physical energy. These beings can mobilize, transform, transmute, manipulate and transmit nearly all of the physical energies of space. So that includes energies that relate to the sun.
    Regarding the Rebels there are Master Physical Controller stationed where Manotia is. All Manotia would have to do is ask one of these beings to help her and they could easily prevent a lowly angel from harming her. Do you really need TUB to tell you that celestial beings are going to stand by and let angels destroy each other? I mean the authors of TUB don’t tell you point blank that they will prevent celestial beings from literally physically destroying one another but that should be a given. “Not a single being was harmed”.

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