Right, and I appreciate the way you qualified your response… “as we mortals know of.” I am curious to get a glimpse into the kind of causalities sustained. and there is “destruction”….but not of bodies or properties. The terminology is used I think as a way to relate to our limited and material life/world. And do we know this with certainty? I understand that the lower is the mansion the more it approximates with what we find in our material reality.
I agree. What I am asking myself is what happens when one rebuffs rebels’ offer to join the secession movement, as was the case with Manotia. While there are no barbarities characteristic of physical war, what about in the celestial sense? What kind of “barbarities” are there? TUB reveals little details save a few hint words, e.g., upheavals, harmed.
Bradly said: “Nothing is more deadly to a celestial, any celestial, than that of betrayal and disloyalty. The answer to your question, then, lies within the destructive power and nature of disloyalty itself I think.
BB replied: “Indeed but the outcome is a result of personal choice. I am interested in the ramification behind resisting the temptation to join the rebellion. The particular passage I posted leaves somewhat to be desired, IMO. When I encounter passages like that it raises questions for me. This is my question: (1) was this arrangement made as a consequence or Manotia’s refusal, or to win over Manotia to the side of the rebellion?”
Me here: I think there is a key phrase that gives us a clue: (606.2) 53:5.6 “There was war in heaven; Michael’s commander and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer, Satan, and the apostate princes); and the dragon and his rebellious angels fought but prevailed not.” This “war in heaven” was not a physical battle as such a conflict might be conceived on Urantia. In the early days of the struggle Lucifer held forth continuously in the planetary amphitheater. Gabriel conducted an unceasing exposure of the rebel sophistries from his headquarters taken up near at hand. The various personalities present on the sphere who were in doubt as to their attitude would journey back and forth between these discussions until they arrived at a final decision.
I would presume from this quote that there were no hostages, internments, bodily injuries, nor destruction of worlds or buildings or beings of any kind….nor can I find any text that would allow for even the possibility of such “physical” outcomes or risks. The “war” was a battle for minds and free will. You also provided a quote that certifies that no mind, divine or celestial, can interfere with the free will choice of any other mind. So I think, by that text, we can conclude that this was not an internal war between any individual’s mind and Lucifer’s or any others’ “invasion” of mind. It is simply, as presented, that internal confusion and paradox – “war” within – that all minds were required to experience….a choice forced on them by the Manifesto and the confusion of loyalties and obedience that resulted by that choice.
(606.5) 53:6.2 At the outbreak of rebellion on Jerusem the head of the seraphic hosts joined the Lucifer cause. This no doubt explains why such a large number of the fourth order, the system administrator seraphim, went astray. The seraphic leader was spiritually blinded by the brilliant personality of Lucifer; his charming ways fascinated the lower orders of celestial beings. They simply could not comprehend that it was possible for such a dazzling personality to go wrong.
I presume this was a most difficult choice in its way….one without precedent or protocol for all affected beings, but perhaps especially so for those who were second or third in command and had always been faithful and loyal to their leadership….which was now in total disruption….and being misled by the one most corrupted – Lucifer himself. What angel would dare to challenge those they had forever followed? Remember that the response was very slow….and then deliberate but not reactionary. There was no demonstration of force or coercion by the legitimate power structure….this patience allowed this “war” within and between minds to carry on until all minds had sufficient time to make a choice….some of whom decided quickly and others not….but every confused mind was given time to work through the process individually.
The arguments presented – “sophistries” as described – are clever presentations of truths within or wrapped with a lie and also lies within or wrapped by truths. Very subtle subversities of persuasion. I look forward to the recordings of this oratory and this example of how the best lies can contain so much truth. As to the meaning of “…and the powerful rebels sought my destruction by means of the liaison forces they had arranged. There was a tremendous upheaval on Jerusem, but not a single loyal seraphim was harmed.” ….I presume that multiple personalities were designated for “peer” persuasion…ambushed by those persuaded by disloyalty. And the end phrase is quite specific…..no loyal beings were “harmed”. And I think further that those disloyal ones were harmed by their own “hand” by the free will choices each made personally within their own mind. And additional text reveals how many of those have since requested and received forgiveness for the error of their choice upon further consideration, evidence, and outcomes.
I know I have not and cannot answer this query in any completeness BB, but I always appreciate your thoughtful reflections and questions on the UB. Thanks for the topic and the discussion.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
