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Agondonters

420 posts · 13 participants · started Mar 23, 2017, 2:39 PM

  1. I was thinking too of how the Adjuster works in the mind. Doesn’t he consider both the egoistic needs of the individual and the altruistic motive, putting a preference on the altruistic option? Doesn’t the Adjuster gently urge us toward that goal?

    103:2.7 Moral choosing is usually accompanied by more or less moral conflict. And this very first conflict in the child mind is between the urges of egoism and the impulses of altruism. The Thought Adjuster does not disregard the personality values of the egoistic motive but does operate to place a slight preference upon the altruistic impulse as leading to the goal of human happiness and to the joys of the kingdom of heaven.

    I find some of the narration above slightly confusing in that some of the words used implies something different and might need additional explanation?  Where if we can agree that “egoistic” can be defined as: “being centered in or preoccupied with oneself and the gratification of one’s own desires; self-centered (opposed to altruistic )”, then the use of the word “needs” as opposed to “motive” as presented in the UB quote, and its reverse usage implication to “altruistic”, might imply confusion of understanding?

    A human may have an egoistic need to be “preoccupied with oneself” and desire self gratification, which might not be considered as being selfish because everyone should have some form of comfort in their environment, but when these “egoistic needs” dominate the individual whereby sharing with others is limited to specific conditions based on a loyalty to these needs over an altruistic (“unselfishly concerned for or devoted to the welfare of others”) option, there should be little behind the motives.  The “egoistic motive” has value when it does not dominate over the altruistic needs, as might be considered as the basic needs of others less fortunate, whereby one is willing to share the benefits of the egoistic need with others.  Then an “altruistic impulse” might motivate the equalization egoism with altruism?

    (1602.7) 142:6.8 Nicodemus was thoroughly sincere. He was deeply impressed but went away bewildered. Nicodemus was accomplished in self-development, in self-restraint, and even in high moral qualities. He was refined, egoistic, and altruistic; but he did not know how to submit his will to the will of the divine Father as a little child is willing to submit to the guidance and leading of a wise and loving earthly father, thereby becoming in reality a son of God, a progressive heir of the eternal kingdom.

    (1602.6) 142:6.7 And Nicodemus said: “But how can I begin to lay hold upon this spirit which is to remake me in preparation for entering into the kingdom?” Jesus answered: “Already does the spirit of the Father in heaven indwell you. If you would be led by this spirit from above, very soon would you begin to see with the eyes of the spirit, and then by the wholehearted choice of spirit guidance would you be born of the spirit since your only purpose in living would be to do the will of your Father who is in heaven. And so finding yourself born of the spirit and happily in the kingdom of God, you would begin to bear in your daily life the abundant fruits of the spirit.”

  2. Mara wrote: . . . due perhaps “. . . owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience.”

    Yessiree!  Exactly.  We’re incomplete, that means we exist somewhere on the grayscale of evil.   And it says that knowledge (or understanding) is not complete either . . . so that must mean we’re not supposed to give it up, but complete it because partial understanding is evil.

    I guess that means what Enno said is not true: “The cost is a great price, which, a man sells all that he has, to posses. Which includes all the  “understanding” he has too.”   

    Looks like we don’t have to sell our understanding either!  Wonderful.  It’s all good.

    130:4.11 Error (evil) is the penalty of imperfection. The qualities of imperfection or facts of misadaptation are disclosed on the material level by critical observation and by scientific analysis; on the moral level, by human experience. The presence of evil constitutes proof of the inaccuracies of mind and the immaturity of the evolving self. Evil is, therefore, also a measure of imperfection in universe interpretation. The possibility of making mistakes is inherent in the acquisition of wisdom, the scheme of progressing from the partial and temporal to the complete and eternal, from the relative and imperfect to the final and perfected. Error is the shadow of relative incompleteness which must of necessity fall across man’s ascending universe path to Paradise perfection. Error (evil) is not an actual universe quality; it is simply the observation of a relativity in the relatedness of the imperfection of the incomplete finite to the ascending levels of the Supreme and Ultimate.

  3. (378.4) 34:4.10 The seven adjutant mind-spirits are the creation of the Divine Minister of a local universe. These mind-spirits are similar in character but diverse in power, and all partake alike of the nature of the Universe Spirit, although they are hardly regarded as personalities apart from their Mother Creator. The seven adjutants have been given the following names: the spirit of wisdom, the spirit of worship, the spirit of counsel, the spirit of knowledge, the spirit of courage, the spirit of understanding, the spirit of intuition — of quick perception.

    (378.5) 34:4.11 These are the “seven spirits of God,” [. . .]

    (402.3) 36:5.6 1. The spirit of intuition — quick perception, the primitive physical and inherent reflex instincts, the directional and other self-preservative endowments of all mind creations; the only one of the adjutants to function so largely in the lower orders of animal life and the only one to make extensive functional contact with the nonteachable levels of mechanical mind.

    (402.4) 36:5.7 2. The spirit of understanding — the impulse of co-ordination, the spontaneous and apparently automatic association of ideas. This is the gift of the co-ordination of acquired knowledge, the phenomenon of quick reasoning, rapid judgment, and prompt decision.

    (402.5) 36:5.8 3. The spirit of courage — the fidelity endowment — in personal beings, the basis of character acquirement and the intellectual root of moral stamina and spiritual bravery. When enlightened by facts and inspired by truth, this becomes the secret of the urge of evolutionary ascension by the channels of intelligent and conscientious self-direction.

    (402.6) 36:5.9 4. The spirit of knowledge — the curiosity-mother of adventure and discovery, the scientific spirit; the guide and faithful associate of the spirits of courage and counsel; the urge to direct the endowments of courage into useful and progressive paths of growth.

    (402.7) 36:5.10 5. The spirit of counsel — the social urge, the endowment of species co-operation; the ability of will creatures to harmonize with their fellows; the origin of the gregarious instinct among the more lowly creatures.

    (402.8) 36:5.11 6. The spirit of worship — the religious impulse, the first differential urge separating mind creatures into the two basic classes of mortal existence. The spirit of worship forever distinguishes the animal of its association from the soulless creatures of mind endowment. Worship is the badge of spiritual-ascension candidacy.

    (402.9) 36:5.12 7. The spirit of wisdom — the inherent tendency of all moral creatures towards orderly and progressive evolutionary advancement. This is the highest of the adjutants, the spirit co-ordinator and articulator of the work of all the others. This spirit is the secret of that inborn urge of mind creatures which initiates and maintains the practical and effective program of the ascending scale of existence; that gift of living things which accounts for their inexplicable ability to survive and, in survival, to utilize the co-ordination of all their past experience and present opportunities for the acquisition of all of everything that all of the other six mental ministers can mobilize in the mind of the organism concerned. Wisdom is the acme of intellectual performance. Wisdom is the goal of a purely mental and moral existence.

    (403.1) 36:5.13 The adjutant mind-spirits experientially grow, but they never become personal. They evolve in function, and the function of the first five in the animal orders is to a certain extent essential to the function of all seven as human intellect. This animal relationship makes the adjutants more practically effective as human mind; hence animals are to a certain extent indispensable to man’s intellectual as well as to his physical evolution.

     

  4. Looks like we don’t have to sell our understanding . . . .

    That’s right.  We are building our understanding.  Proverbs 4:

    7 The beginning of wisdom is: Acquire wisdom;
    And with all your acquiring, get understanding.

     

  5. “The seven adjutants have been given the following names: the spirit of wisdom, the spirit of worship, the spirit of counsel, the spirit of knowledge, the spirit of courage, the spirit of understanding, the spirit of intuition — of quick perception.”  (378.4) 34:4.10

    These are adjutant mind-spirits and mind on Urantia is a compromise:

    9:5.6 [Part I]
    Mind, on Urantia, is a compromise between the essence of thought perfection and the evolving mentality of your immature human nature. The plan for your intellectual evolution is, indeed, one of sublime perfection, but you are far short of that divine goal as you function in the tabernacles of the flesh. Mind is truly of divine origin, and it does have a divine destiny, but your mortal minds are not yet of divine dignity.

     

  6. Mara wrote: That’s right. We are building our understanding. Proverbs 4:7 The beginning of wisdom is: Acquire wisdom; And with all your acquiring, get understanding.

    Thanks for that Mara.  Here’s the companion quote in TUB:

    P1481:5, 133:9.3 It was at Ur that Ganid had a long talk with Jesus regarding the difference between knowledge, wisdom, and truth. And he was greatly charmed with the saying of the Hebrew wise man: “Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom. With all your quest for knowledge, get understanding. Exalt wisdom and she will promote you. She will bring you to honor if you will but embrace her.”

    I think understanding is more than just knowledge.  It’s on the road to wisdom and we know wisdom opens that gateway to the soul where truth resides.

  7. 111:1.9  “Mind is your ship, the Adjuster is your pilot, the human will is captain.”

    111:1.4   Material evolution has provided you a life machine, your body; the Father himself has endowed you with the purest spirit reality known in the universe, your Thought Adjuster. But into your hands, subject to your own decisions, has been given mind, and it is by mind that you live or die. It is within this mind and with this mind that you make those moral decisions which enable you to achieve Adjusterlikeness, and that is Godlikeness.
  8. But what will need to happen when the understanding becomes the black and white truth that the interpretive belief of what may be right or wrong, a mixture of truth and error, is actually the combining of good and evil that isn’t all good?

     

  9. All truth this side of Paradise is relative, which means it can’t be black or white.  Truth is a living flexible reality, always changing.

    79:8.8 Truth is relative and expanding; it lives always in the present, achieving new expression in each generation of men–even in each human life.

    2:7.2 Physical facts are fairly uniform, but truth is a living and flexible factor in the philosophy of the universe. Evolving personalities are only partially wise and relatively true in their communications. They can be certain only as far as their personal experience extends. That which apparently may be wholly true in one place may be only relatively true in another segment of creation.

     

  10. But what will need to happen when the understanding becomes the black and white truth that the interpretive belief of what may be right or wrong, a mixture of truth and error, is actually the combining of good and evil that isn’t all good?

    So, what you seem to be saying, is that one cannot exist without the other, and at the same time there cannot be all-good nor all-evil, because one cannot define one without the other.  The so called gray area between white and black, is that which constitutes life.  If our Father is absolute light, and we cannot exist in relation to this light, because it has been mentioned that we would die or not be able to exist, the same can be assumed about absolute darkness or the absence of light.  Each one by them self cannot exist, so there must be a mother and father, but then without an egg, well that seems to be the gray area, or then we go back to the chicken and the egg analogy, where the only logical answer to that is the pregnant chicken came first.

  11. All truth this side of Paradise is relative, which means it can’t be black or white.  Truth is a living flexible reality, always changing.

    Thank you.  The reasonable understanding that truth is relative and expanding, that it always lives in the present, and that each generation of men and women – each human life – achieves a new expression of it, reminds me of the Supreme Being.

    56:6.3[Part II]
    The material-minded creatures of the evolutionary worlds of the seven superuniverses can comprehend Deity unity only as it is evolving in this power-personality synthesis of the Supreme Being. On any level of existence God cannot exceed the conceptual capacity of the beings who live on such a level. Mortal man must, through the recognition of truth, the appreciation of beauty, and the worship of goodness, evolve the recognition of a God of love and then progress through ascending deity levels to the comprehension of the Supreme. Deity, having been thus grasped as unified in power, can then be personalized in spirit to creature understanding and attainment.
    Inherent capacities cannot be exceeded.  (48:7.5)
  12. “All” may or may not be good. But what is good will only get better, when the inherent capacity for goodness is expanded.

  13. But all good things in their own time.

  14. 56:6.3 The material-minded creatures of the evolutionary worlds of the seven superuniverses can comprehend Deity unity only as it is evolving in this power-personality synthesis of the Supreme Being. On any level of existence God cannot exceed the conceptual capacity of the beings who live on such a level. Mortal man must, through the recognition of truth, the appreciation of beauty, and the worship of goodness, evolve the recognition of a God of love and then progress through ascending deity levels to the comprehension of the Supreme. Deity, having been thus grasped as unified in power, can then be personalized in spirit to creature understanding and attainment.
    I like this quote because it mandates a course of action. It says man MUST evolve the recognition of a God of love and then progress to comprehension of the Supreme.  (Hmmm, comprehension sounds an awful lot like understanding to me.)
    This evolution of recognition and comprehension is the process of expanding conceptual capacity.  Evolution and progress towards  recognition of our Father and comprehension of the Supreme is what we do within the psychic circles, and we are told we must do it.  God gives us personality and free-will, he sends his Sons and even himself, then sets us free to begin the journey of self-realization and divinity attainment.
    We begin with one level of functional capacity, but we are gifted with the potential for unlimited capacity. We are engineered to overcome our inherent capacities.  We are mandated to outgrow them  . . . to evolve . . . to discover newer and greater capacities . . . enhance our capacity.  We can evolve capacities; we can develop capacities; we can create capacities; we can enhance capacities; we can enlarge capacities.  It never ends and it’s all good.

    52:2.3 The evolution of the religious capacity of receptivity in the inhabitants of a world largely determines their rate of spiritual advancement and the extent of religious revelation.

    176:3.7 Only those faithful servants who thus grow in the knowledge of the truth, and who thereby develop the capacity for divine appreciation of spiritual realities, can ever hope to “enter fully into the joy of their Lord.”
    100:6.9 But it is experience in and with the human religions that develops the capacity for subsequent reception of increased bestowals of divine wisdom and cosmic insight

    146:2.14 But he did teach that prayer is a factor in the enlargement of one’s capacity to receive the presence of the divine spirit.

    132:2.5 An experience is good when it heightens the appreciation of beauty, augments the moral will, enhances the discernment of truth, enlarges the capacity to love and serve one’s fellows, exalts the spiritual ideals, and unifies the supreme human motives of time with the eternal plans of the indwelling Adjuster, all of which lead directly to an increased desire to do the Father’s will, thereby fostering the divine passion to find God and to be more like him.

    103: 0.1 Subsequent to the bestowals of the Paradise Sons the liberated Spirit of Truth makes mighty contributions to the enlargement of the human capacity to perceive religious truths.

    117.6.9  Men all too often forget that God is the greatest experience in human existence. Other experiences are limited in their nature and content, but the experience of God has no limits save those of the creature’s comprehension capacity, and this very experience is in itself capacity enlarging. When men search for God, they are searching for everything.

    118:10.13  1. Man’s augmenting vision — his increased understanding of the world in which he lives; his enlarging capacity for the comprehension of the material facts of time, the meaningful ideas of thought, and the valuable ideals of spiritual insight. As long as men measure only by the yardstick of the things of a physical nature, they can never hope to find unity in time and space.

    52:6.7 The only technique for accelerating the natural trend of social evolution is that of applying spiritual pressure from above, thus augmenting moral insight while enhancing the soul capacity of every mortal to understand and love every other mortal.

    144:4.2  The earnest and longing repetition of any petition, when such a prayer is the sincere expression of a child of God and is uttered in faith, no matter how ill-advised or impossible of direct answer, never fails to expand the soul’s capacity for spiritual receptivity.

    170:2.23 When you forgive your brother in the flesh, you thereby create the capacity in your own soul for the reception of the reality of God’s forgiveness of your own misdeeds.

    92:0.4 3. The Holy Spirit – this is the initial supermind bestowal, and it unfailingly appears in all bona fide human personalities. This ministry to a worship-craving and wisdom-desiring mind creates the capacity to self-realize the postulate of human survival, both in theologic concept and as an actual and factual personality experience.

    115:3.16 Always will actuals be opening up new avenues of the realization of hitherto impossible potentials—every human decision not only actualizes a new reality in human experience but also opens up a new capacity for human growth. The man lives in every child, and the morontia progressor is resident in the mature God-knowing man.

    140:8.32 The Master came to create in man a new spirit, a new will—to impart a new capacity for knowing the truth, experiencing compassion, and choosing goodness—the will to be in harmony with God’s will, coupled with the eternal urge to become perfect, even as the Father in heaven is perfect.

    Growth of the Supreme is dependent upon us increasing our capacity through soul growth. If capacity doesn’t enlarge then there is no change, and if there is no change there is death. Growing and enlarging our capacity is a mandate for survival.  This is why it is said that the further we progress through the psychic circles, the more we become aware of a relationship with the Supreme. (Who incidentally is represented by Michael and his Spirit of Truth.)
    106:2.5 Since creatures, even mortals, are personality participants in this majestic transaction, so do they certainly attain the capacity to know the Supreme and to perceive the Supreme as true children of such an evolutionary Deity.
    110:6.16 Perhaps these psychic circles of mortal progression would be better denominated cosmic levels—actual meaning grasps and value realizations of progressive approach to the morontia consciousness of initial relationship of the evolutionary soul with the emerging Supreme Being. And it is this very relationship that makes it forever impossible fully to explain the significance of the cosmic circles to the material mind. These circle attainments are only relatively related to God-consciousness. A seventh or sixth circler can be almost as truly God-knowing—sonship conscious—as a second or first circler, but such lower circle beings are far less conscious of experiential relation to the Supreme Being, universe citizenship. The attainment of these cosmic circles will become a part of the ascenders’ experience on the mansion worlds if they fail of such achievement before natural death.
  15. It never ends and it’s all good.
     Yes but if all is to be sold, won’t that include everything, even “understanding”? What did Jesus intend to say when he said all?
    (140:8.28) The right to enter the kingdom is conditioned by faith, personal belief. The cost of remaining in the progressive ascent of the kingdom is the pearl of great price, in order to possess which a man sells all that he has.
    (151:4.5) “The kingdom of heaven is also like a merchant seeking goodly pearls; and having found one pearl of great price, he went out and sold everything he possessed that he might be able to buy the extraordinary pearl.”
    How can you buy the pearl of great price if you don’t sell all that you have, everything, if that’s the only way to have the kingdom?
  16.  

    Enno, the merchant sold every THING he POSSESSED.  In other words, the other things in his life were not as valuable to him as the pearl, so he relinquished them.  Those things no longer HAD value.  He chose the one thing that IS value.  The pearl is a metaphor for what IS value.  Everything he possessed prior to discovering the pearl he sold because it only HAD value. It’s crucial to consider the difference between “has value” and “is value”.  And understanding adds meaning to value. Value is not appreciated without meaning.  Meaning requires understanding, a mental association.  Without understanding you are an amoeba, an organism reflexively reacting to the environment rather than a thinking, growing personality. Consider these quotes:

    115:2.2 Value is a unique element in universe reality. We do not comprehend how the value of anything infinite and divine could possibly be increased. But we discover that meanings can be modified if not augmented even in the relations of infinite Deity. To the experiential universes even divine values are increased as actualities by enlarged comprehension of reality meanings.

    100:3.3 In the contemplation of values you must distinguish between that which is value and that which has value. You must recognize the relation between pleasurable activities and their meaningful integration and enhanced realization on ever progressively higher and higher levels of human experience.

    100:3.4 Meaning is something which experience adds to value; it is the appreciative consciousness of values. An isolated and purely selfish pleasure may connote a virtual devaluation of meanings, a meaningless enjoyment bordering on relative evil. Values are experiential when realities are meaningful and mentally associated, when such relationships are recognized and appreciated by mind.

     

     

  17. Bonita,

    (171:8.8) Jesus would only say, in answer to their many questions:

    “Ponder well these words in your hearts while each of you finds out their true meaning.”

     

  18. So Enno, do you understand my post?  What do you suppose pondering in your heart means?  Ponder means think carefully, to contemplate the meaning of value.  When you contemplate values in your heart, you’re looking for the best meaning, a meaning in line with reality, a meaning revealed by the Spirit of Truth in the soul which can be acted out within your own life. Then, when you apply that meaning, you actualize what was merely potential by giving it meaning within your own life.

    Meanings begin with discovering and recognizing value within the heart (soul). They require pondering, or contemplation, a form of cooperation with the inner spirit in order to interpret the meaning of a given value as it applies to your individual life situation. Once the meaning is pondered (recognized and interpreted), it is made ready for action by the Spirit of Truth who shows you how it relates to the real situations, things and people in your own life, then you augment it by the actual experience of acting it out.  That’s when it has real meaning and is fully understood within the context of your life situation.  Which is why truth is relative. It only applies to your experience and understanding of it.  Final truth only exists on Paradise.

    Pondering in the heart means developing spiritual insight.  Spiritual insight is simply learning to discover, recognize, interpret and choose what IS value.  Interpretation within the soul, with the help of the Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth and Adjuster contributes to the understanding of the meaning of values.  Why do you think Jesus kept telling people to ponder, Enno?  Did you find a quote where Jesus told people to sell their pondering, or give it away?  I don’t think so.  Understanding is part of growth.  The only kind of understanding he wants you to  give away is misunderstanding.  Cast it off and go with understanding.

  19. Bonita,

    I usually understand your posts very well, and everyone else’s posts too.

    It’s by the contributions and the ideas about it all that others add to my life that a blind man like me can arrive at enough of a glimpse of the path to keep me walking in the right direction.

    There are a few things to bump my toes against once in a while but the spirit of brotherhood is strong, and no matter how gray things may be, I agree with all of you who insist that it’s all good, that it’s only a matter of time.

    And I think this time, it’s good.

    Enno

  20. VanAmadon wrote:(171:8.8) Jesus would only say, in answer to their many questions: “Ponder well these words in your hearts while each of you finds out their true meaning.”
    You have answered your own question –  “Ponder well these words in your hearts while each of you finds out their true meaning.”

     

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