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200 Million Mortal Ascenders on Jerusem

176 posts · 14 participants · started Nov 26, 2017, 11:47 PM

BradlyParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 12:13 PM
To me the primary issue here is not the assumption of one’s own salvation but the presumption of the inadequacies and undeserving masses of others compared to ourselves who are believed unworthy of salvation….a sad form of self superiority and judgment….made far worse by its source coming from Urantia Book students when the UB is the greatest source of hope and trust ever gifted or written, endlessly presenting the function of mercy, love, faith, and the inherent religious life all people experience….even those who apparently disappoint others so very much. Thankfully, Jesus seems much less disappointed and enduringly endeared to us mortals in his own opinions and expressions of understanding, no matter the immaturity or brutality he endured…still did and does he love us and teach us and guide us today.

Hopefully, THIS is the gospel and good news we share with others. For the message that few are worthy and the path to paradise is closed but for the few who pass the judgment of other tadpoles is the same old message of doom and gloom and suffering and damnation that the true gospel of Good News was given to overcome!! Such a perspective certainly does not come from the Revelation itself! And those who claim such and seek to prove their own despair and blindness by the text of the UB should be corrected, not coddled. This is a friendly universe in which all of reality is formed and founded on LOVE and the relentless ministry of mercy and Divine Patience wherein every single mind and being is provided sufficient time to embrace this truth and reality…even Lucifer and all the rebels are in this embrace of love, kindness, mercy, and patience….surely we mortals might assume our own safety and standing as God’s beloved Children? I think so….yes!

Tadpoles judging tadpoles….hilarious if not so sad in its source and audience here…….

(1115.3) 101:9.2 When you presume to sit in critical judgment on the primitive religion of man (or on the religion of primitive man), you should remember to judge such savages and to evaluate their religious experience in accordance with their enlightenment and status of conscience. Do not make the mistake of judging another’s religion by your own standards of knowledge and truth.

194:3.2 (2062.11) Many things which happen in the course of a human life are hard to understand, difficult to reconcile with the idea that this is a universe in which truth prevails and in which righteousness triumphs. It so often appears that slander, lies, dishonesty, and unrighteousness — sin — prevail. Does faith, after all, triumph over evil, sin, and iniquity? It does. And the life and death of Jesus are the eternal proof that the truth of goodness and the faith of the spirit-led creature will always be vindicated. They taunted Jesus on the cross, saying, “Let us see if God will come and deliver him.” It looked dark on that day of the crucifixion, but it was gloriously bright on the resurrection morning; it was still brighter and more joyous on the day of Pentecost. The religions of pessimistic despair seek to obtain release from the burdens of life; they crave extinction in endless slumber and rest. These are the religions of primitive fear and dread. The religion of Jesus is a new gospel of faith to be proclaimed to struggling humanity. This new religion is founded on faith, hope, and love.

194:3.11 (2064.3) Pentecost, with its spiritual endowment, was designed forever to loose the religion of the Master from all dependence upon physical force; the teachers of this new religion are now equipped with spiritual weapons. They are to go out to conquer the world with unfailing forgiveness, matchless good will, and abounding love. They are equipped to overcome evil with good, to vanquish hate by love, to destroy fear with a courageous and living faith in truth. Jesus had already taught his followers that his religion was never passive; always were his disciples to be active and positive in their ministry of mercy and in their manifestations of love. No longer did these believers look upon Yahweh as “the Lord of Hosts.” They now regarded the eternal Deity as the “God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ.” They made that progress, at least, even if they did in some measure fail fully to grasp the truth that God is also the spiritual Father of every individual.

Me here: Not just every deserving individual…..let us trust the sheep to the shepherd…for who of us is ‘deserving’ after all??!! For God knows best and rules by love and leaves the 99 to find and save even the one who is lost. In the UB, even the barbarous savage of a caveman standing snarling and club raised between those loved and danger to them is given as example of that which is noble and endearing in human kind….any and all love is by and from but the original source, even the love of a child or a primitive savage, and all such love saves us from material death for our chance at immortality for no one may give love to another by any measure without being loved first. Who is not loved?

And this is the Gospel – all are so loved and may trust God…in this material life and in the next…such is the hope and trust demonstrated by Jesus on Easter Morning. This is a good week to consider his life and his gift and his example and all the many lessons on God’s endless love and the triumph of that love and the tender mercy and forgiveness we are each and all given. This is the Good News….let us proclaim it….and believe it!

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
GeneParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 3:09 AM
Bradly wrote:

Rick Warren wrote:

:

I have found plenty of evidence within the UB for my optimism regarding the soul’s chance for survival from this world.

Do you think that making an assumption about survival is much the same as assumption of divine mercy?
BonitaParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 1:35 PM
Then there’s these quotes:

(1141.3) 103:9.5 Although religious experience is a purely spiritual subjective phenomenon, such an experience embraces a positive and living faith attitude toward the highest realms of universe objective reality. The ideal of religious philosophy is such a faith-trust as would lead man unqualifiedly to depend upon the absolute love of the infinite Father of the universe of universes. Such a genuine religious experience far transcends the philosophic objectification of idealistic desire; it actually takes salvation for granted and concerns itself only with learning and doing the will of the Father in Paradise. The earmarks of such a religion are: faith in a supreme Deity, hope of eternal survival, and love, especially of one’s fellows.

(2017.4) 188:4.9 All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one’s fellows is the highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer’s chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one’s fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.
BradlyParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 3:47 PM
Yes…those and so many more….

In the study topics here on Papers 100 & 101 (so far), we have read much about “primitive religion” and the “religions of primitive” people and also studied the broad spectrum of “faith” and also the very inherent nature of the Spirit ministry within us all….children, barbarian, primitive, and the less primitive, including those with a more “genuine religious experience” which “actually takes salvation for granted” as “Salvation should be taken for granted…”.

No where are we instructed to take our own salvation for granted but doubt and determine the jeopardy and the doomed-to-oblivion status of any others….ANY OTHERS at all!! And to then attempt to prove this false and presumptuous belief of the unworthiness of others while also claiming, by obvious logical extension and conclusion so associated, the very real failure of love, mercy, patience, and universe leadership to overcome evil, ignorance, immaturity, and even sin by the purpose and plan of Deity!! A preposterous and dangerous conclusion for any person or believer or student of the Revelation or the Gospel OF Jesus to believe, preach, teach, or otherwise perpetuate!

This is a critically important lesson taught by Jesus as the Son of Man and redundantly and repeatedly in the Papers. Our low opinion of others is a crime against ourselves!! Our ability to receive forgiveness is based upon our willingness and ability to forgive others first! We are taught that the love others and forgiveness of others and that which we perceive and claim to be their faults, failures, weaknesses, evils, and sins are inherently linked together!! We are to love and forgive…and we will receive forgiveness according to our ability and willingness to forgive. It is neither loving nor forgiving to believe and claim few of our fellows survive by our judgments and perspective.

Perhaps we should start a topic on “Forgiveness”?? (or maybe we have already right here?) It so relates to Religion In Human Experience and The Real Nature of Religion too!! Our own religious experience and personal progress in the Spirit depends upon an understanding of the fact and function of forgiveness. How cruel and false it is for any of us to judge this world of 7 billion souls so coldly and brutally and to also include all of Satania, and by extension all the mortal spheres of time and space, and by such accusation to most cruelly indict all those who lovingly minister to us mortals by God’s purpose, plan, and power of Love of their own abject failure. Lord have mercy…what a claim!!!!

Those here who defend such a proclamation and stance and perspective and/or those who make such false claims should reconsider such support and the beliefs such a conclusion and claim demonstrates. I think it shameful personally…a most unworthy proposition without any support whatsoever in the Papers but, rather, with an endless litany of proofs to the contrary!!

Wisdom requires consideration of the motivations of words and perspective and claims made and also must consider, by logic and reason, the extended and consequential conclusions such claims must lead us to in our considerations of the claims and motives. Why would someone presume and claim that there are few who survive? This claim cannot originate in the UB itself by or for those who know its contents. Several here have wrongly claimed that the spiritual progress and attitudes required for fusion are the same as those for survival – an inherently flawed position easily proved incorrect by the text itself in multiple places and ways! The differences between these two are profoundly different as redundantly described….a topic addressed here on many threads, including the studies on Papers 100 and 101. Can one fuse with but a flicker? An obviously flawed belief and lack of understanding when confusing the two very distinct issues.

Faith and religious experience have many levels in their spectrums of progressions…including object worship, ghost fears, and many forms of childish, immature, inexperienced, primitive, and other forms of inferior practice based on false beliefs and total ignorance….and still are they personalized faith and religious experiences which delivers progress in the Spirit….and by such ones not to be judged so harshly by those of us who consider ourselves more knowledgeable, experienced, wise, and enlightened. Indeed, we are admonished to be very careful with such self evaluations and the resulting low opinions of others which might result thereby.

This topic is a very big deal!

Here’s a link to a study of the key words “Forgive OR Forgiveness”:

https://urassoc.arko.nyc/search/?zoom_sort=2&zoom_query=forgive+OR+forgiveness&zoom_per_page=100&zoom_and=0&zoom_cat%5B%5D=-1

140:3.16 “Your Father in heaven makes the sun to shine on the evil as well as upon the good; likewise he sends rain on the just and the unjust. You are the sons of God; even more, you are now the ambassadors of my Father’s kingdom. Be merciful, even as God is merciful, and in the eternal future of the kingdom you shall be perfect even as your heavenly Father is perfect.

140:3.17 “You are commissioned to save men, not to judge them. At the end of your earth life you will all expect mercy; therefore do I require of you during your mortal life that you show mercy to all of your brethren in the flesh. Make not the mistake of trying to pluck a mote out of your brother’s eye when there is a beam in your own eye. Having first cast the beam out of your own eye, you can the better see to cast the mote out of your brother’s eye.

2:4.2 [Part I]
God is inherently kind, naturally compassionate, and everlastingly merciful. And never is it necessary that any influence be brought to bear upon the Father to call forth his loving-kindness. The creature’s need is wholly sufficient to insure the full flow of the Father’s tender mercies and his saving grace. Since God knows all about his children, it is easy for him to forgive. The better man understands his neighbor, the easier it will be to forgive him, even to love him.

2:6.6 [Part I]
The affectionate heavenly Father, whose spirit indwells his children on earth, is not a divided personality — one of justice and one of mercy — neither does it require a mediator to secure the Father’s favor or forgiveness. Divine righteousness is not dominated by strict retributive justice; God as a father transcends God as a judge.

2:6.9 [Part I]
Facing the world of personality, God is discovered to be a loving person; facing the spiritual world, he is a personal love; in religious experience he is both. Love identifies the volitional will of God. The goodness of God rests at the bottom of the divine free-willness — the universal tendency to love, show mercy, manifest patience, and minister forgiveness.

159:1.5 [Part IV]
“And this chief steward, having thus received mercy and forgiveness at the hands of the king, went about his business, and finding one of his subordinate stewards who owed him a mere hundred denarii, he laid hold upon him and, taking him by the throat, said,’Pay me all you owe. And then did this fellow steward fall down before the chief steward and, beseeching him, said:’Only have patience with me, and I will presently be able to pay you. But the chief steward would not show mercy to his fellow steward but rather had him cast in prison until he should pay his debt. When his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were so distressed that they went and told their lord and master, the king. When the king heard of the doings of his chief steward, he called this ungrateful and unforgiving man before him and said:’You are a wicked and unworthy steward. When you sought for compassion, I freely forgave you your entire debt. Why did you not also show mercy to your fellow steward, even as I showed mercy to you?‘ And the king was so very angry that he delivered his ungrateful chief steward to the jailers that they might hold him until he had paid all that was due. And even so shall my heavenly Father show the more abundant mercy to those who freely show mercy to their fellows. How can you come to God asking consideration for your shortcomings when you are wont to chastise your brethren for being guilty of these same human frailties? I say to all of you: Freely you have received the good things of the kingdom; therefore freely give to your fellows on earth.”

(1861.10) 170:3.3 It is in the consideration of the technique of receiving God’s forgiveness that the attainment of the righteousness of the kingdom is revealed. Faith is the price you pay for entrance into the family of God; but forgiveness is the act of God which accepts your faith as the price of admission. And the reception of the forgiveness of God by a kingdom believer involves a definite and actual experience and consists in the following four steps, the kingdom steps of inner righteousness:

(1862.1) 170:3.4 1. God’s forgiveness is made actually available and is personally experienced by man just in so far as he forgives his fellows.

(1862.2) 170:3.5 2. Man will not truly forgive his fellows unless he loves them as himself.

(1862.3) 170:3.6 3. To thus love your neighbor as yourself is the highest ethics.

(1862.4) 170:3.7 4. Moral conduct, true righteousness, becomes, then, the natural result of such love.

Me here: Let us love one another and forgive one another and give hope and good news one to another…for this is the Good News given to us!!

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
GeneParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 4:29 PM

Bonita wrote:

Then there’s these quotes:

(1141.3) 103:9.5 Although religious experience is a purely spiritual subjective phenomenon, such an experience embraces a positive and living faith attitude toward the highest realms of universe objective reality. The ideal of religious philosophy is such a faith-trust as would lead man unqualifiedly to depend upon the absolute love of the infinite Father of the universe of universes. Such a genuine religious experience far transcends the philosophic objectification of idealistic desire;

the subjective approach (faith) to objective spirit realities I get, but there remains that “assumption” that my subjective approach is up to par.

Clipped from above:

“Salvation should be taken for granted”

relying on Webster for “assume” I can (I’m sure this interpretation is wrong but it helps me make a point) interpret that I take hold of mercy, take control of it as opposed to taking it for granted. Same interpretation for my subjective approach to spirit realities.

as for “should” it’s looking to the future in a positive fashion with the hope that things will turn out the way I assume.

the authors leave a little room for doubt I think purposely because they realize how devious a human mind is so this intended doubt helps us reflect on our assumptions and shoulds realistically so that our subjective faith approach to spirit objective realities is anything but a subtle deception.

imho.
BonitaParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 5:02 PM
Those who have accepted sonship are at liberty to take salvation for granted. Both are gifts. Nothing can be done to earn salvation, being a faith-son is enough to assure salvation. That’s not to diminish the importance of growth and progress, which does require considerable effort and commitment.

I think there are many souls who have yet to embrace their own sonship. Until they do, they will doubt their own salvation even though it exists for them quite freely for the choosing. Consciousness of sonship and its acceptance naturally leads to fruit production which is shared with the rest of the family. I think our job as faith-sons is to teach sonship with God to those who doubt it. And I think the best way to teach it is to live it. Said Jesus:

(2054.3) 193:2.2 “Peace be upon you. You rejoice to know that the Son of Man has risen from the dead because you thereby know that you and your brethren shall also survive mortal death. But such survival is dependent on your having been previously born of the spirit of truth-seeking and God-finding. The bread of life and the water thereof are given only to those who hunger for truth and thirst for righteousness — for God. The fact that the dead rise is not the gospel of the kingdom. These great truths and these universe facts are all related to this gospel in that they are a part of the result of believing the good news and are embraced in the subsequent experience of those who, by faith, become, in deed and in truth, the everlasting sons of the eternal God. My Father sent me into the world to proclaim this salvation of sonship to all men. And so send I you abroad to preach this salvation of sonship. Salvation is the free gift of God, but those who are born of the spirit will immediately begin to show forth the fruits of the spirit in loving service to their fellow creatures. And the fruits of the divine spirit which are yielded in the lives of spirit-born and God-knowing mortals are: loving service, unselfish devotion, courageous loyalty, sincere fairness, enlightened honesty, undying hope, confiding trust, merciful ministry, unfailing goodness, forgiving tolerance, and enduring peace. If professed believers bear not these fruits of the divine spirit in their lives, they are dead; the Spirit of Truth is not in them; they are useless branches on the living vine, and they soon will be taken away. My Father requires of the children of faith that they bear much spirit fruit. If, therefore, you are not fruitful, he will dig about your roots and cut away your unfruitful branches. Increasingly, must you yield the fruits of the spirit as you progress heavenward in the kingdom of God. You may enter the kingdom as a child, but the Father requires that you grow up, by grace, to the full stature of spiritual adulthood. And when you go abroad to tell all nations the good news of this gospel, I will go before you, and my Spirit of Truth shall abide in your hearts. My peace I leave with you.”
BonitaParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 5:05 PM

Gene wrote:

I take hold of mercy, take control of it as opposed to taking it for granted.

How exactly does one control mercy?
BradlyParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 5:28 PM
Agreed Bonita…I find nothing ambiguous about the quotes you posted: “…it actually takes salvation for granted…” and “Salvation should be taken for granted…” by those who claim to believe…

So, while I think some who accuse so many others of unworthiness to survive due to their own egoistic pride in their own self perceived superiority of religious progress and standing, it is also true there are those who wallow in self doubt and guilt which means they “….will doubt their own salvation even though it exists for them quite freely for the choosing.” Their judgment of others originates in their own self doubts, as you point out.

But in either case or by either form or origination of belief and proposition….both are flawed and inaccurate. Especially so by the contents and teachings of the UB. And professed believers who do not show forth the Divine Fruits are not any source of value or meaning to believers or students of the teachings we share here.

So, by definition, those who proclaim that few survive death and make it to the Mansion Worlds are mighty poor representatives of the either the Jesusonian Gospel OR the Urantia Papers and their false claims and assumptions should be rigorously opposed by those who know better!

Just sayin’…..

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Van AmadonParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 6:19 PM

(140:8.21) Jesus had little to say about the social vices of his day; seldom did he make reference to moral delinquency. He was a positive teacher of true virtue. He studiously avoided the negative method of imparting instruction; he refused to advertise evil. He was not even a moral reformer. He well knew, and so taught his apostles, that the sensual urges of mankind are not suppressed by either religious rebuke or legal prohibitions. His few denunciations were largely directed against pride, cruelty, oppression, and hypocrisy.
GeneParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 6:26 PM

Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote:

I take hold of mercy, take control of it as opposed to taking it for granted.

How exactly does one control mercy?

you left out the word “assume” which is key to my idea. A Webster alternative interpretation that I used to make my point.

I n regard to divine mercy we know we cannot control. I did state in above post that this interpretation (taking over, taking control of) of the word “assume” was a Webster alternative but not vald in the intended topic of the quote from the paper. Aren’t we told to not assume divine mercy?

but we can be merciful, I suppose this is an element of control.

i feel like I never make sense to people and I get lost in explanations.
BradlyParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 9:40 PM

Gene wrote:

Aren’t we told to not assume divine mercy?

I cannot find any such quote or reference Gene….where or what context do you think so? I think all the quotes directly say we are to “assume” divine mercy…like one assumes gravity…it is dependable, natural, inherent, systemic, normal, and fundamental to reality itself, and, interestingly enough, it exists and operates regardless of our knowledge of, belief in, or understanding it.

There are three principal definitions of the word ‘assume’….I would assert (or assume – hahaha) that all 3 are pertinent and descriptive!

as·sume

VERB
suppose to be the case, without proof.

synonyms: presume · suppose · take it · take for granted · take as read · take it as given · presuppose · conjecture · surmise · conclude · come to the conclusion · deduce · infer · draw the inference · reckon · reason · guess · imagine · think · fancy · suspect · expect · accept · believe · be of the opinion · understand · be given to understand · gather · glean · figure · opine · ween

take or begin to have (power or responsibility).

synonyms: accept · shoulder · bear · undertake · take on · take up · take on oneself · manage · handle · deal with · get to grips with · turn one’s hand to

take on (a specified quality, appearance, or extent).

We are to assume mercy, without evidence or proof as it is suppose to be the case of universe reality. We are to assume mercy, to take or begin to have mercy ourselves and for others, in order to give it to others. We are to assume mercy by personally taking on the quality of mercy to others generally in motive and intention and demeanor. By such assumptions of mercy do we the better receive mercy ourselves we are taught.

As you suggest Gene, we do not control THE mercy of Reality….except to the degree that we extend it to others. Now this extension of our own willing mercy ministry (forgiveness) is voluntary and has its own level of effect(s), both to the receiver and the giver of mercy/forgiveness I think. It makes us more reality-aligned when we give forgiveness and extend love to others. But no others depend upon us for their own mercy ministry and full quota of Divine Mercy….the Mercy Credits.

We are taught that such love and forgiveness should lead to service to others. We are also taught that patience, kindness, peace of mind, and happiness are the fruits that one enjoys and shares by such motive, intention, and choice in life. We are personally blessed by the giving and sharing of love and forgiveness.

Mercy is very related to our ultimate eternal adventure and the potential for self annihilation and termination. We are taught we must give mercy to receive it…not for its extension TO us but for its reception BY us!! We are always and forever loved….but if we cannot learn to give mercy and love to others, we are not able to receive those unto ourselves….and we cannot associate with reality or survive eternally without such association…our eternal adventure depends upon our willingness to give mercy and love to others!

That’s why this very topic is, to me, so potentially dangerous!!! Who condemns others so? And so many others? On what basis? Who presumes to so judge God’s tender and paternal mercy and wisdom and love and purpose and plan and power? Who so defies the Gospel of Jesus and the teachings of the FER? I would caution such tadpoles of the dangers and repercussions of such merciless opinions of others. Beware…danger attends such judgments and such beams blind us to our own needs and shortcomings.

And who listens to and supports and defends such notions here?

We may assume the love and mercy of the Father, Mother, and Son. This is the good news and this is the news to share with others!

Such an assumption may not and does not excuse or justify our own chosen misbehavior or lack of response to the Spirit. Neither does such an assumption give us license to judge others and their worth or relationship to God and Divine Mercy and Love. It is our opinion of others, specifically and generally, that exemplifies our own light within…be it flicker or bright in its shine! Beware of those who are so disappointed in their fellows and wish to share their gloom with you. Uhhhh…no thanks please!!!

From 103:9.5 above: “The ideal of religious philosophy is such a faith-trust as would lead man unqualifiedly to depend upon the absolute love of the infinite Father of the universe of universes.”

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Mar 27, 2018, 10:14 PM

Gene wrote:

Aren’t we told to not assume divine mercy?

I think you mean presume, but I guess that’s splitting hairs. Yes, one of the habitual religious attitudes we are supposed to cultivate is refusal to presume on divine mercy:

100:1.8 Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one’s spiritual life with one’s fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.

But I don’t see a link between taking survival for granted and presuming on mercy. I suppose if something was gained by survival, if survival was some kind of reward, one might not want to presume on one’s worthiness of the reward. But that’s not how it goes, we gain nothing after death, nothing except continued life; it’s not a reward for being good.

Survival is about everlasting life, mercy is about divine justice applied to that life. We are all going to make many mistakes and use up many mercy credits in this life and in the next one as well, but that doesn’t preclude survival. Every last mercy credit must be squandered away resulting in complete moral and spiritual bankruptcy before survival is rescinded. And even then, it has to be a wholehearted conscious decision, and the personality must agree to his own annihilation, which we all agree is some kind of insanity.

Gene wrote:

. . . but we can be merciful, I suppose this is an element of control.

It takes a lot of growth to be merciful. Recall that there are several steps that must be traversed before a person can show mercy. First you need to be just, then fair, then patient, then kind and then, and only then, if you happen to have it in your heart, you can show mercy. As I see it, most folks have trouble with step #1 let alone the rest of it. Mercy really relies on sonship consciousness and its resultant brotherhood consciousness, if you really think about it. So, if you accept sonship, you can take survival for granted and then start working on the 5 steps toward actual mercy.

28:6.8 While the spirit techniques of mercy ministry are beyond your concept, you should even now understand that mercy is a quality of growth. You should realize that there is a great reward of personal satisfaction in being first just, next fair, then patient, then kind. And then, on that foundation, if you choose and have it in your heart, you can take the next step and really show mercy; but you cannot exhibit mercy in and of itself. These steps must be traversed; otherwise there can be no genuine mercy. There may be patronage, condescension, or charity — even pity — but not mercy. True mercy comes only as the beautiful climax to these preceding adjuncts to group understanding, mutual appreciation, fraternal fellowship, spiritual communion, and divine harmony.*
BonitaParticipant
Mar 28, 2018, 12:15 PM
A good quote to remind us about mercy credits:

(314.6) 28:6.7 The Memory of Mercy must show that the saving credit established by the Sons of God has been fully and faithfully paid out in the loving ministry of the patient personalities of the Third Source and Center. But when mercy is exhausted, when the “memory” thereof testifies to its depletion, then does justice prevail and righteousness decree. For mercy is not to be thrust upon those who despise it; mercy is not a gift to be trampled under foot by the persistent rebels of time. Nevertheless, though mercy is thus precious and dearly bestowed, your individual drawing credits are always far in excess of your ability to exhaust the reserve if you are sincere of purpose and honest of heart.

We are not to squander mercy in this life or the next, but sincerity of desire assures there will always be enough mercy. Salvation is a gift; mercy is also a gift. Mercy is the personal application of loving justice to each individual life in its struggle to be sincere and honest of heart.

In this next quote we’re informed that if an individual is of questionable survivability, mercy allows for the advance of that individual to the mansion worlds as a transitional being. This means that such individuals are given more time for mercy ministry before any decisions are made. This alone should convince the naysayers on this forum that most people get an opportunity to go to the mansion worlds. Certainly not 100%, but much, much more than just a few as claimed.

(1233.3) 112:5.7 If ever there is doubt as to the advisability of advancing a human identity to the mansion worlds, the universe governments invariably rule in the personal interests of that individual; they unhesitatingly advance such a soul to the status of a transitional being, while they continue their observations of the emerging morontia intent and spiritual purpose. Thus divine justice is certain of achievement, and divine mercy is accorded further opportunity for extending its ministry.

I really like the reference to emerging morontia intent. On the mansion worlds we will have morontia minds to work with, which in itself is a gift of mercy. Emerging morontia intent in this life has to do with a developing desire to transfer identity to the morontia soul. Emerging means a budding willingness to do God’s will. Emerging means it may be just a flicker of desire, hope and faith. Recall the covenant of Melchizedek:

(1020.7) 93:6.4 This covenant of Melchizedek with Abraham represents the great Urantian agreement between divinity and humanity whereby God agrees to do everything; man only agrees to believe God’s promises and follow his instructions. Heretofore it had been believed that salvation could be secured only by works — sacrifices and offerings; now, Melchizedek again brought to Urantia the good news that salvation, favor with God, is to be had by faith. But this gospel of simple faith in God was too advanced; the Semitic tribesmen subsequently preferred to go back to the older

Is this gospel still too advanced for humans? Do people still believe that heaven is a reward for good behavior? That only the most righteous find favor with God and enter into his heavenly abode?? God surely loves sinners as much as he loves the uber-righteous and we certainly cannot buy his favor. His love is already fully funded.
BradlyParticipant
Apr 17, 2018, 4:46 PM
In my recent studies on the topic of “assurance”, I was struck even more so about the motive and intent and the very real danger of the topic here and the claims by some related to it. The most fundamental and elemental foundation of a person’s faith is survival assurance and the inner assurance of God and God’s love for me….every “me”! This is the reality and truth that is experienced by children and primitives alike! The I AM tells us each I AM AND YOU ARE TOO!! And I AM WITH YOU AND YOU ARE OF ME!!

Those who doubt and despair for their own safety or the safety of others diminish this reality of God’s love for and understanding of the mortal children of time. They misunderstand the very nature of faith itself and its expressions by the children of time….especially those children from the cusp of planetary inhabitation through the early mortal epochs when ignorance and fear combine to, perhaps, distort the religious experience compared to its eventual fullness and enlightenment in the ages to come….but the truth, reality, and power of that primitive and immature religious experience is very real.

The flicker comes early. The soul may grow and commune despite mortal ignorance and material gravity effects. So the flicker might grow in some without a clear perception of its vitality by those mortals inclined to measure and judge the light within others!! I think this topic is most unwise and foolish even and defies that hope and assurance which is the very point of the Revelation! Faith assurance and truth assurance are the objectives of every level of Spirit ministry…it is the very source of the branch and its attachment to the vine….no matter how tender or small….and no other branches are worthy to assess the worthiness of another. We are reminded of the need to remove our own timbers of personal blindness, the better to “see”…and let God do the seeing and weighing and judging!

I don’t think tadpoles can truly ascertain or measure religious experience, faith in others, circle progress, or the destiny potential for the children of time. And I’m sure that the UB teaches us to focus only or primarily on our own personal religious experience and its expression in loving service to other children of time…and not by expressing our doubts, fears, suspicions, and determinations of the unworthiness of others for the eternal adventure…and the assurance of our salvation and God’s love and mercy. Just sayin’…..

5:4.2 [Part I]
The great and immediate service of true religion is the establishment of an enduring unity in human experience, a lasting peace and a profound assurance. With primitive man, even polytheism is a relative unification of the evolving concept of Deity; polytheism is monotheism in the making. Sooner or later, God is destined to be comprehended as the reality of values, the substance of meanings, and the life of truth.

19:5.12 [Part I]
And from all this, you mortals, just now taking your first step on the eternal journey, can well see that you must advance a long way before you will progress by “sight” and “material” assurance. You will long use faith and be dependent on revelation if you hope to progress quickly and safely.

101:1.6 [Part III]
Faith unites moral insight with conscientious discriminations of values, and the pre-existent evolutionary sense of duty completes the ancestry of true religion. The experience of religion eventually results in the certain consciousness of God and in the undoubted assurance of the survival of the believing personality.

101:5.10 [Part III]
Evolutionary religion is the outworking of the endowment of the local universe mind adjutant charged with the creation and fostering of the worship trait in evolving man. Such primitive religions are directly concerned with ethics and morals, the sense of human duty. Such religions are predicated on the assurance of conscience and result in the stabilization of relatively ethical civilizations.

101:5.12 [Part III]
Evolved religion rests wholly on faith. Revelation has the additional assurance of its expanded presentation of the truths of divinity and reality and the still more valuable testimony of the actual experience which accumulates in consequence of the practical working union of the faith of evolution and the truth of revelation. Such a working union of human faith and divine truth constitutes the possession of a character well on the road to the actual acquirement of a morontial personality.

117:6.8 [Part III]
All soul-evolving humans are literally the evolutionary sons of God the Father and God the Mother, the Supreme Being. But until such time as mortal man becomes soul-conscious of his divine heritage, this assurance of Deity kinship must be faith realized. Human life experience is the cosmic cocoon in which the universe endowments of the Supreme Being and the universe presence of the Universal Father (none of which are personalities) are evolving the morontia soul of time and the human-divine finaliter character of universe destiny and eternal service.

Me here: I think those who are so disappointed in their fellow mortals and so doubtful as to the survivor rates of tadpoles, are measuring the lack of frogs they perceive as evidence of the failure of tadpoles to survive and yet tadpoles might only perceive other tadpoles I think and will naturally be disappointed by the lack of perceived frogs when that is their measure of tadpole success! Or put another way, the perception of worms does not see that the worm in the cocoon is a butterfly to be but not a butterfly today and the lack of butterflies is more an indication of the season of being, not the termination of being or the lack of that season to come…the season of the butterfly to come!

So, of 7 billion souls on Urantia today…how many do not hope and yearn and have ideas of God and ideals about God’s nature and pray for the survival of others and themselves? And how many do? And how many since Andon and Fonta have enjoyed this faith assurance from the Adjutants and that hope which carries the children of time through trials and tribulations to our grave? Is not hope the flicker? Those without hope are hardly them we should trust to fan the flicker I think. Who hopes to be better than we are?

26:4.14 [Part I]
Faith has won for the ascendant pilgrim a perfection of purpose which admits the children of time to the portals of eternity. Now must the pilgrim helpers begin the work of developing that perfection of understanding and that technique of comprehension which are so indispensable to Paradise perfection of personality.

101:9.2 (1115.3) When you presume to sit in critical judgment on the primitive religion of man (or on the religion of primitive man), you should remember to judge such savages and to evaluate their religious experience in accordance with their enlightenment and status of conscience. Do not make the mistake of judging another’s religion by your own standards of knowledge and truth.

What is “primitive religion”? Well, survival hope and belief is its core. And I doubt that ANY who so hope or believe are disappointed.

https://urassoc.arko.nyc/search/?zoom_sort=2&zoom_query=%22primitive+religion%22&zoom_per_page=100&zoom_and=0&zoom_cat%5B%5D=-1

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Apr 17, 2018, 7:39 PM
I think one of the most perceptive quotes in TUB related to this topic is this:

146:3.2 You should never forget that intolerance is the mask covering up the entertainment of secret doubts as to the trueness of one’s belief.

Perhaps those who fear that few will be saved are not really pretending to be spiritually superior, but rather covering up secret doubts concerning their own salvation. The unsalvageable character they perceive in others might be what they really see in themselves, and this can cause uncertainty, not to mention some level of mental chaos. I’m not sure what can be done about that though. It seems the more you try to help, the more defensive and angry they get. In some cases, at least.
BradlyParticipant
Apr 23, 2018, 9:48 PM
110:7.6 (1213.1) But with the vast majority of Urantians the Adjuster must patiently await the arrival of death deliverance; must await the liberation of the emerging soul from the well-nigh complete domination of the energy patterns and chemical forces inherent in your material order of existence. The chief difficulty you experience in contacting with your Adjusters consists in this very inherent material nature. So few mortals are real thinkers; you do not spiritually develop and discipline your minds to the point of favorable liaison with the divine Adjusters. The ear of the human mind is almost deaf to the spiritual pleas which the Adjuster translates from the manifold messages of the universal broadcasts of love proceeding from the Father of mercies. The Adjuster finds it almost impossible to register these inspiring spirit leadings in an animal mind so completely dominated by the chemical and electrical forces inherent in your physical natures.

I have always found the authors to be quite precise in their use of language and the construction of concepts, sentences, paragraphs, etc. There is an intentionality it seems to me that is very thoughtful and ponderous…there is a weight as well as a cadence that is impressive.

The above quote does not say “…of those who survive…” nor “….of those few who survive….” but directly says the “…vast majority…must patiently await …..death deliverance.” Hmmmmm……

The years of “silent sojourn” are typical on this world and in this mortal epoch and on all worlds and all the earlier epochs. The “vast majority” of all who survive to the Mansion Worlds live short lives that are dominated by material isolation and the demands of our electro/chemical natures. This is the very purpose of the Mansion Worlds! To deliver the mortal to a new state of being that offers a much more direct communication between ascender and TA.

Is the universe fair? Just? Then does our brief existence and natural inability to communicate with or hear the voice of the TA mean our condemnation and failure to survive? Who thinks this way? By what teaching, text, or belief?

I find it ironic that it is by such minds that this claim of low survivor rates comes forth!! The deaf and dumb who cannot hear the “…messages of the universal broadcasts of love proceeding from the Father of mercies…”, and declaring the lack of mercy and the condemning demands of creators and Deity which we fail to achieve and the doom which is our just reward! Such nonsense!

Surely our God is greater than this?! More compassionate, kind, understanding, patient, loving, paternal, and merciful?? I know of a book which certainly claims God is all of that…and far more! It is that book we share here together!

110:7.7 (1213.2) Adjusters rejoice to make contact with the mortal mind; but they must be patient through the long years of silent sojourn during which they are unable to break through animal resistance and directly communicate with you. The higher the Thought Adjusters ascend in the scale of service, the more efficient they become. But never can they greet you, in the flesh, with the same full, sympathetic, and expressionful affection as they will when you discern them mind to mind on the mansion worlds.

110:7.8 (1213.3) During mortal life the material body and mind separate you from your Adjuster and prevent free communication; subsequent to death, after the eternal fusion, you and the Adjuster are one — you are not distinguishable as separate beings — and thus there exists no need for communication as you would understand it.

110:7.9 (1213.4) While the voice of the Adjuster is ever within you, most of you will hear it seldom during a lifetime. Human beings below the third and second circles of attainment rarely hear the Adjuster’s direct voice except in moments of supreme desire, in a supreme situation, and consequent upon a supreme decision.

Bonita wrote:

I think one of the most perceptive quotes in TUB related to this topic is this:

146:3.2 You should never forget that intolerance is the mask covering up the entertainment of secret doubts as to the trueness of one’s belief.

Perhaps those who fear that few will be saved are not really pretending to be spiritually superior, but rather covering up secret doubts concerning their own salvation. The unsalvageable character they perceive in others might be what they really see in themselves, and this can cause uncertainty, not to mention some level of mental chaos. I’m not sure what can be done about that though. It seems the more you try to help, the more defensive and angry they get. In some cases, at least.

In our recent studies of the concept of “assurance”, I agree that this may be the case…those who fear for and doubt the survivability of others, especially so many others, may indeed truly lack the faith and truth assurance which is fundamental to Religion In Human Experience and The Real Nature of Religion of their own futures and status. Such assurance is a principal ministry function and outcome of true religious experience. It is the primal experience in children and primitives which delivers hope and trust and faith expressions.

To me it is the greatest example of God’s love for us…we are immediately and patiently and persistently enveloped in this feeling of belonging and caring and importance and eternal being and becoming. This is the very cocoon for our entire mortal and religious lives, the dual nature is not its result but its very source…I AM! I AM…loved.

I think it must be either this doubt or it can only be the other option discussed – spiritual pride…a sense of personal superiority which justifies a low opinion of others and a judgement that is typically human in its assessment and demands. After all, it is the human mind that invented fear of God and eternal damnation and suffering and blood sacrifice and the abomination of atonement! The human mind has a long history of making gods small and petty and all too human. Take your pick….a sad affair in either case.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

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