That is an ad hominem Bonita.
Please explain how feeling ashamed and embarrassed of someone’s behavior is ad hominem. Isn’t this exactly what you’re doing right now?
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200 Million Mortal Ascenders on Jerusem
176 posts · 14 participants · started Nov 26, 2017, 11:47 PM
It seems to me you’ve taken the higher road in the discussion today.
Since when is calling someone a TOOL the higher road? What road is that? I’m not familiar with that moral high road.
It seems to me that the moral high road would be saying, “Sorry”. And I don’t detect any sincerity at all in Enno’s comment about loving me. Where’s the evidence? Perhaps I missed it?
Van Amadon wrote: George was right. So you also think I’m dishonest and stupid?
My goodness… Don’t you ever grow tired of constantly misrepresenting what others say? I never said I thought you were unintelligent. Quite the opposite, in fact!
133:2.1 While tarrying at the ship landing, waiting for the boat to unload cargo, the travelers observed a man mistreating his wife. As was his custom, Jesus intervened in behalf of the person subjected to attack. He stepped up behind the irate husband and, tapping him gently on the shoulder, said: “My friend, may I speak with you in private for a moment?” The angry man was nonplused by such an approach and, after a moment of embarrassing hesitation, stammered out — “er — why — yes, what do you want with me?” When Jesus had led him to one side, he said: “My friend, I perceive that something terrible must have happened to you; I very much desire that you tell me what could happen to such a strong man to lead him to attack his wife, the mother of his children, and that right out here before all eyes. I am sure you must feel that you have some good reason for this assault. What did the woman do to deserve such treatment from her husband? As I look upon you, I think I discern in your face the love of justice if not the desire to show mercy. I venture to say that, if you found me out by the wayside, attacked by robbers, you would unhesitatingly rush to my rescue. I dare say you have done many such brave things in the course of your life. Now, my friend, tell me what is the matter? Did the woman do something wrong, or did you foolishly lose your head and thoughtlessly assault her?” It was not so much what he said that touched this man’s heart as the kindly look and the sympathetic smile which Jesus bestowed upon him at the conclusion of his remarks. Said the man: “I perceive you are a priest of the Cynics, and I am thankful you restrained me. My wife has done no great wrong; she is a good woman, but she irritates me by the manner in which she picks on me in public, and I lose my temper. I am sorry for my lack of self-control, and I promise to try to live up to my former pledge to one of your brothers who taught me the better way many years ago. I promise you.”
184:2.12 Having taken the first step along the path of compromise and least resistance, there was nothing apparent to Peter but to go on with the course of conduct decided upon. It requires a great and noble character, having started out wrong, to turn about and go right. All too often one’s own mind tends to justify continuance in the path of error when once it is entered upon.Greetings Mara!
While I am happy to leave you to your opinions as what is virtue and what is not related to this conversation, I am puzzled by your position on the mention, discussion, or even posting what someone has publicly posted of their own opinions and views at another study group forum. Van/Enno/nod publicly posted on many topics. This one he actually titled and originated. I still study it to consider Enno’s motives and mind set and opinions of the UB. By the way I post as fanofVan at TruthBook and believe the words one publishes are public and subject to public consideration and review. So we’ll disagree on this one. As to Enno’s high road and impeccable standards of conduct here and historically….well to each their own opinion. Here’s a link to Enno’s claims of the dangers of the UB:
http://truthbook.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5332
By the way, he has not publicly altered, amended, edited, or otherwise changed this public opinion and defense of his proposition to my knowledge….which can always be done at TruthBook….there is no deadline for editing or adding to a post and topic.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
My goodness… Don’t you ever grow tired of constantly misrepresenting what others say? I never said I thought you were unintelligent. Quite the opposite, in fact!
Sorry, but you said it was hard to have an honest conversation with someone who is obtuse. That makes my efforts at conversation, according to you, dishonest, annoyingly insensitive and hard to understand. You did say that, right?
While I am happy to leave you to your opinions
Thank you for leaving me to my opinions. It seems to me you are not okay with the opinions of Van. People are entitled to have their opinions whether you agree with them or not.
By the way, he has not publicly altered, amended, edited, or otherwise changed this public opinion and defense of his proposition to my knowledge
It that your mission? To change his *proposition*? Is this forum about the exchange of ideas and interpretations of the Urantia Book? Isn’t it desirable to respect the personalities of those who express their opinions here?
159:3.2 Always respect the personality of man. Never should a righteous cause be promoted by force; spiritual victories can be won only by spiritual power. This injunction against the employment of material influences refers to psychic force as well as to physical force. Overpowering arguments and mental superiority are not to be employed to coerce men and women into the kingdom. Man’s mind is not to be crushed by the mere weight of logic or overawed by shrewd eloquence. While emotion as a factor in human decisions cannot be wholly eliminated, it should not be directly appealed to in the teachings of those who would advance the cause of the kingdom. Make your appeals directly to the divine spirit that dwells within the minds of men. Do not appeal to fear, pity, or mere sentiment. In appealing to men, be fair; exercise self-control and exhibit due restraint; show proper respect for the personalities of your pupils. Remember that I have said: “Behold, I stand at the door and knock, and if any man will open, I will come in.”George Park wrote: My goodness… Don’t you ever grow tired of constantly misrepresenting what others say? I never said I thought you were unintelligent. Quite the opposite, in fact! Sorry, but you said it was hard to have an honest conversation with someone who is obtuse. That makes my efforts at conversation, according to you, dishonest, annoyingly insensitive and hard to understand. You did say that, right?
Sorry if you are apparently having a hard time understanding and/or remembering what I actually wrote. Don’t see how I can help you further.
Sorry if you are apparently having a hard time understanding and/or remembering what I actually wrote.
Well, I think it’s the other way around. I think you’ve forgotten what you wrote. Here it is:
George Park wrote:I must say it’s hard to have a honest discussion with someone who is being intentionally obtuse. But have a good weekend!Here’s what I wrote:Sorry, but you said it was hard to have an honest conversation with someone who is obtuse.
Sorry I switched your word discussion to conversation, my bad. And, I left out the word intentionally, which actually makes what you said worse because it impugns my motives, which you are mistaken about. So you did say that my attempts at discussion are intentionally dishonest, annoyingly insensitive and hard to understand. By the way, another meaning of the word obtuse is dumb or stupid.
George Park wrote:Don’t see how I can help you further.What makes you think I’m asking for, or want, your help? Seems to me that I did remember what you said and I’m still wondering why you’re denying that you said it? It’s in print!!Isn’t it desirable to respect the personalities of those who express their opinions here?
Yes, we all have to respect each other’s personalities, but we don’t have to respect each other’s opinions. No one should be expected to respect the opinion that an honest man is a TOOL. Some opinions are simply not worthy of respect.
God has many tools. No?
- God has many tools (us) to further his plans. And he allows us to be used that way, even if co-operation with him isn’t according to his plan.(48:4.7) 3. Prophetic joy. It will perhaps be difficult for mortals to envisage this phase of humor, but we do get a peculiar satisfaction out of the assurance “that all things work together for good”—for spirits and morontians as well as for mortals. This aspect of celestial humor grows out of our faith in the loving overcare of our superiors and in the divine stability of our Supreme Directors.But we have a particular tool we can use too. And when we do, we’ll be taking it out of low gear, and getting it into a higher gear of co-operation. (195:10.18)(160:4.15) And it is in this business of facing failure and adjusting to defeat that the far-reaching vision of religion exerts its supreme influence. Failure is simply an educational episode—a cultural experiment in the acquirement of wisdom—in the experience of the God-seeking man who has embarked on the eternal adventure of the exploration of a universe. To such men defeat is but a new tool for the achievement of higher levels of universe reality.
You and Bradly both have felt justified in calling others Luciferian, beyond evil/error, sinful, and iniquitous.
No we didn’t do that. At least I didn’t. Here’s what I said:
Bonita wrote:Brilliant observation Bradly. The idea that the ascension plan is faulty, that it fails to save large numbers of God’s creatures, is rather Luciferian in my opinion. So is the pride of spiritual superiority.Note that I said, “THE IDEA” is Luciferian. No person was mentioned or implied. If you took personal offense then I think that is your problem for not reading what I wrote correctly.In fact, it seems that it is really just the two of you who are going around calling others “the spawn of the devil.”
I think you ought to back up that claim if you’re going to make it. I’d like to see a direct quote where I called you such a thing. I know you won’t find it, so I would like an apology for being falsely accused. Bearing false witness against another personality is very serious. I think it’s one of those commandments that go back thousands and thousands of years.
Can you understand the significance of the fact that those you have viciously attacked in this way have not immediately spun around and hurled the same accusations back at you?
Well, what I understand is that you are viciously attacking me right now. You’re making untrue accusations against an innocent person. And that can’t be good for you. It looks to me like you may have lost your temper over something I never wrote.
Yeah but here’s the problem. The Spirit of Truth is playing his role.
(48:7.30) 28. The argumentative defense of any proposition is inversely proportional to the truth contained.One other thing that keeps running through my brain on this topic: The number of people who will quit.
Over and over we read the words or the reference to, ‘if you don’t reject.’ Have you considered the idea that ascension might be akin to Navy Seal training here on Urantia? The drop out rate is high (60%). It’s going to be tough, maybe even tougher than Seal training, notwithstanding the fact that half the time is recreational. We will have to face every shortcoming, every imperfection, and do so over billions of years.
…And you will sometime meet these noble beings face to face if you do not reject the certain and all-perfected plan designed to effect your survival and ascension…. 24:6.9 (270.7)
…If you do not reject this spirit, even though eternity may be required to fulfill the commission, “he will guide you into all truth.” 34:7.1 (382.1)
…Though you will probably never understand the fact of such an inexplicable transaction, you will sometime experientially know the truth of it if you do not reject the plan of mortal survival…. 30:4.15 (341.5)
***
Richard E Warren
And here’s something to add to it Rick, that if you do finally reject, there won’t be a second chance.
(112:5.9) This does not mean that human beings are to enjoy a second opportunity in the face of the rejection of a first, not at all. But it does signify that all will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice. The sovereign Judges of the universes will not deprive any being of personality status who has not finally and fully made the eternal choice; the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.Over and over we read the words or the reference to, ‘if you don’t reject.’
I think that’s simply a reference to free will and how important it is. We must want to love our Father in order to have the opportunity to be with him in eternity. No one is coercing us to keep the great circuit of love going. But, if love does not bring a person joy, then by all means, they have the freedom to leave. The only problem is, there’s nowhere to go, and that’s why it’s a final decision.
But is it a spiritual reaction?
I forgive you for your willful attacks on my personality.
I will go even further than forgiveness. I will attempt to go the second and third mile. Please know that I am actively praying for you George, for you and your soul. I know you are greatly loved and I endeavor to love you as Jesus loves you. I will do whatever I can for you because you are valuable.
Oh, I almost forgot the most important thing. I will also forget your vicious attacks upon my personality. We’re told to forgive and forget. I will definitely do that.
