176 posts · 14 participants · started Nov 26, 2017, 11:47 PM
I can’t estimate the numbers but to me, the significance of the message of the UB is that if I don’t pay attention, I could get confused and end up not surviving .
Another direct contradiction of the UB….can’t happen!!
Oh you’re right. I forgot.
The UB says Lucifer proclaimed everyone survives no matter what.
I can’t estimate the numbers but to me, the significance of the message of the UB is that if I don’t pay attention, I could get confused and end up not surviving .
Another direct contradiction of the UB….can’t happen!!
Oh you’re right. I forgot. The UB says Lucifer proclaimed everyone survives no matter what.
Enno – we’ve had this discussion on TruthBook, you and I. You’re doubts as to your own worthiness and survival and that of your fellows for whom you are so concerned. Your lack of confidence in the survival of your soul originates from the beliefs and teachings of other religionists (especially certain so-called Christian religionists). And while your personal humility may be laudable and your uncertainties deserving of tender empathy and patience, still do you contradict the teachings. Non-survival, according to the Revelation, requires very specific knowledge, conscious decision, and knowing rejection of love and mercy….confusion won’t cut it dude.
110:3.5 (1206.3) Confusion, being puzzled, even sometimes discouraged and distracted, does not necessarily signify resistance to the leadings of the indwelling Adjuster. Such attitudes may sometimes connote lack of active co-operation with the divine Monitor and may, therefore, somewhat delay spiritual progress, but such intellectual emotional difficulties do not in the least interfere with the certain survival of the God-knowing soul. Ignorance alone can never prevent survival; neither can confusional doubts nor fearful uncertainty. Only conscious resistance to the Adjuster’s leading can prevent the survival of the evolving immortal soul.
34:7.8 (383.2) Having started out on the way of life everlasting, having accepted the assignment and received your orders to advance, do not fear the dangers of human forgetfulness and mortal inconstancy, do not be troubled with doubts of failure or by perplexing confusion, do not falter and question your status and standing, for in every dark hour, at every crossroad in the forward struggle, the Spirit of Truth will always speak, saying, “This is the way.”
188:4.9 Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer’s chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one’s fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.
Cheer up Enno….it’s not what I say or Lucifer said….it’s the whisper of the Comforter and Pilot within, the Light of Love that lives within and the 4th and 5th Epochal Revelations that should relieve your “confusional doubts” and your “fearful uncertainty”. I’ve always taken you for a Believer Enno. Did you know that well over 90% of Urantians today profess such belief? I wonder can those who believe in a Creator or Great Cause & Upholder, no matter how ignorant or depraved or misguided or misdirected, can they be condemned to oblivion by the God of our Brother Michael as taught by Jesus….the Giver of Life and the Loving Father of All?
Enno…do you truly fear for the survival of your soul? And the souls of others with the Light Within?
If so….then I am very sorry for you Brother, very sorry indeed. I hope you jest or hope to make some point I am too blind to see!
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Enno, it might be useful to remember that as long as you disagree with the verdict of extinction, you won’t be executed. Neither will you be executed if your supporters and sympathizers also disagree. So, as long as we’re all fighting for you and you want to exist, you will.
(615.4) 54:3.2 Although conscious and wholehearted identification with evil (sin) is the equivalent of nonexistence (annihilation), there must always intervene between the time of such personal identification with sin and the execution of the penalty — the automatic result of such a willful embrace of evil — a period of time of sufficient length to allow for such an adjudication of such an individual’s universe status as will prove entirely satisfactory to all related universe personalities, and which will be so fair and just as to win the approval of the sinner himself.
(615.5) 54:3.3 But if this universe rebel against the reality of truth and goodness refuses to approve the verdict, and if the guilty one knows in his heart the justice of his condemnation but refuses to make such confession, then must the execution of sentence be delayed in accordance with the discretion of the Ancients of Days. And the Ancients of Days refuse to annihilate any being until all moral values and all spiritual realities are extinct, both in the evildoer and in all related supporters and possible sympathizers.
Wow thanks Bonita for that quote! I confess that I’ve never seen it before….or at least I don’t remember seeing it. We truly are part of a supernal system of justice and mercy. It makes me feel safe and loved. 
Hi Julian, good to hear from you. That quote is one of my favorites too. Its companion quote is the one that explains how Jesus disciplined his family using the same technique.
(1401.3) 127:4.3 Jesus began wise discipline upon his brothers and sisters at such an early age that little or no punishment was ever required to secure their prompt and wholehearted obedience. The only exception was Jude, upon whom on sundry occasions Jesus found it necessary to impose penalties for his infractions of the rules of the home. On three occasions when it was deemed wise to punish Jude for self-confessed and deliberate violations of the family rules of conduct, his punishment was fixed by the unanimous decree of the older children and was assented to by Jude himself before it was inflicted.
Enno, it might be useful to remember that as long as you disagree with the verdict of extinction, you won’t be executed. Neither will you be executed if your supporters and sympathizers also disagree. So, as long as we’re all fighting for you and you want to exist, you will.
(615.4) 54:3.2 Although conscious and wholehearted identification with evil (sin) is the equivalent of nonexistence (annihilation), there must always intervene between the time of such personal identification with sin and the execution of the penalty — the automatic result of such a willful embrace of evil — a period of time of sufficient length to allow for such an adjudication of such an individual’s universe status as will prove entirely satisfactory to all related universe personalities, and which will be so fair and just as to win the approval of the sinner himself.
(615.5) 54:3.3 But if this universe rebel against the reality of truth and goodness refuses to approve the verdict, and if the guilty one knows in his heart the justice of his condemnation but refuses to make such confession, then must the execution of sentence be delayed in accordance with the discretion of the Ancients of Days. And the Ancients of Days refuse to annihilate any being until all moral values and all spiritual realities are extinct, both in the evildoer and in all related supporters and possible sympathizers.
Me here: This topic and discussion reminds me of the differences between fear based evolutionary religions and love based revelationary religion. So many of us suffer from base fears and anxieties that are so socially and religiously deeply ingrained. Here’s a link to a fascinating story at Scientific American, posted by a UB friend of mine, about cognitive ability and our response/retention of Fake News….even when we are informed that a story IS fake….still do we believe. I think this is related to social memory and consciousness and belief systems.
This topic seems to perpetuate the notions of original sin and humanity’s inherent depravity and unworthiness (fake news – falsehoods). Something Jesus did not believe or teach. He taught precisely the opposite. And yet human unworthiness and God’s inherent judgmentalness and wrath are still deeply ingrained in Christianity and raises its ugly head even among students of the UB. Why and how so?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cognitive-ability-and-vulnerability-to-fake-news/
99:5.2 (1091.1) Always keep in mind: True religion is to know God as your Father and man as your brother. Religion is not a slavish belief in threats of punishment or magical promises of future mystical rewards.
99:5.5 (1091.4) The doctrine of the total depravity of man destroyed much of the potential of religion for effecting social repercussions of an uplifting nature and of inspirational value. Jesus sought to restore man’s dignity when he declared that all men are the children of God.
99:7.3 (1093.1) Religion inspires man to live courageously and joyfully on the face of the earth; it joins patience with passion, insight to zeal, sympathy with power, and ideals with energy.
That which and those who perpetuate the myth of humanity’s low and fallen estate and our unworthiness for that destiny which has been planned, designed, implemented, and managed so well and so lovingly by our Creator Son and Paradise Deity demonstrate their own personal belief in the FAKE NEWS of our ancestors and their denial of the GOOD NEWS of the 4th and 5th Epochal Revelations AND the personal/auto revelation within each of us by and from the Son’s Spirit of Truth. It demonstrates an inability or unwillingness to HEAR the voice within that comforts and gives truth of God’s love for us each and for us all.
That this is someone’s perspective they seek to ‘share’ with others is a mystery to me. Why share personal doom and gloom with any others? Why twist, torment, and distort the words of hope and promise in the UB to other students? Such a perspective and tactic demonstrate a real and personal problem best kept to oneself. It is fine to ask questions and seek opinions and express personal doubts; it is quite another to make declarations and defend proposals that presume the unworthiness of God’s children for His love and mercy ministry….especially when that is so eloquently and redundantly taught to us in the UB.
The Urantia Papers are designed to and should make us all feel so completely “….safe and loved.” Indeed Julian, indeed! 
Or so I think……
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Or so I think……
I have an honest question for you Bradly.
When are you going to KNOW instead of THINK?
Well Enno…I’m not the one here doubting my own or other’s destiny and the strength of their flicker within am I?
To say…”Or so I think”….merely demonstrates I state an opinion and not a declared fact. It also demonstrates a wariness of personal prejudice and indicates a willingness to adjust and/or correct an opinion based on new insights and the perspective of others – it’s an invitation for other opinions which may agree or disagree or somewhat agree or somewhat disagree.
You are one of the least certain of all students I’ve met the past 6+ years…what do you know? And doesn’t that change? You knew of a certainty and publicly declared the UB to be DANGEROUS. Do you still ‘think’ so? When will you KNOW better?
I know my Father within and the love of my Master and my safe passage to eternity…what do you know?
193:0.4 (2052.4) “…. Sonship with God, by faith, is still the saving truth of the gospel of the kingdom. You are to go forth preaching the love of God and the service of man. That which the world needs most to know is: Men are the sons of God, and through faith they can actually realize, and daily experience, this ennobling truth. My bestowal should help all men to know that they are the children of God, but such knowledge will not suffice if they fail personally to faith-grasp the saving truth that they are the living spirit sons of the eternal Father. The gospel of the kingdom is concerned with the love of the Father and the service of his children on earth.”
I know there is no doubt or doom and gloom in the Good News we have been given Enno. Yes, I do know that!
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
When are you going to KNOW instead of THINK?
Thinking is good. It’s thoughts that lead a person Godward. At least Bradly dares to think, which is something we’re told so few humans have the courage to do. Kudos Bradly!
16:6.9 But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking.
Bradly, what I know is that you’re a tool.
Well Enno…that’s what you think and not what you might know. I wonder if you’ll understand that the insults from some sources may be high praise indeed?!
Best wishes with what you know Enno….and what you think you know…..I’ll bet I see you on up the pilgrim’s path to Paradise Enno and we’ll get to share a little reversion time together…and maybe a fandor flight. You may doubt for the safety of your soul Enno but I do not.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Yup Bradly. We’ll sit down and have a beer.
Try not to think about what others know too much Bradly. I know you know this because in an earlier post, you admitted that it was dangerous when you do it.
Cheers friend.
I’m so ashamed of Enno. Why does every conversation with him eventually devolve into name calling? Such a shame. I’d report his post too if the forum would allow more than one thumbs down. Let it be known to the administration that I too object.
So Enno…you claim or wish to be friends? Really??!! Hmmm……one might wonder the need for enemies with such friends.
Various meanings of being a “tool”…..
It means that you are a person that is being used without knowing it. A person that concentrates on fitting in to a crowd and having others notice that he is not a loser…an attention seeker hoping to fit in.
It means that you are something being used as a means for someone else to achieve something. A person who is a ‘tool’, is easily manipulated, especially to carry out unpleasant or dishonest tasks that somebody else is unwilling to do.
When someone is called a tool, it indicates that they lack personal convictions, and generally go along with what they believe is expected of them without bothering to question the higher purpose.
According to Green’s Dictionary of Slang, tool has several meanings. In the current context it would probably mean “a stupid, useless or socially inept person”. The first citation for this dates from 1656.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
You know, there are lots of people who are interested in the UB.
Some of them come to forums like this one to checkout what those who profess an understanding of what the UB teaches have to say.
They I pressume, might be even more interested though in the people, what the UB teachings do with those who study it.
Kudos to you all.
You know, there are lots of people who are interested in the UB. Some of them come to forums like this one to checkout what those who profess an understanding of what the UB teaches have to say. They I pressume, might be even more interested though in the people, what the UB teachings do with those who study it. Kudos to you all.
If so, then I wonder what the UB teachings have done with you Enno? Has it changed your perspective and helped adjust your philosophy of living? And has that delivered the fruits of the Spirit so that you are more kind, patient, loving, happy, confident in God’s love and your own destiny? For it does not sound so Enno…which is a pity. For the study of the Revelation should deliver a calm and joyful trust in God’s friendly universe and assurance of our destiny. It does not seem to have such an effect for some. A pity indeed.
I have given my own testimony of such wondrous transformations and hopes as the Revelation has assisted so many students over the decades. Keep reading Enno…hopefully the UB teachings may still do something with you….too.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
They I pressume, might be even more interested though in the people, what the UB teachings do with those who study it.
Presumptions can be wrong, but let’s say that you’re right, people come here to get to know the people who read TUB not TUB itself. It you truly believe that, why do you always resort to name calling? Is that what you want others to see from a TUB reader?
They I pressume, might be even more interested though in the people, what the UB teachings do with those who study it.
Presumptions can be wrong, but let’s say that you’re right, people come here to get to know the people who read TUB not TUB itself. It you truly believe that, why do you always resort to name calling? Is that what you want others to see from a TUB reader?
George was right.
George was right.
So you also think I’m dishonest and stupid? Well, that’s two, but it’s not a majority, I don’t think. Sorry you guys have such a low opinion of me. Personally, I don’t have such negative thoughts about either of you. I just find it shocking when otherwise good people resort to ad hominem when a discussion isn’t going the way they want it to go. The other thing they do is run away to their safe zone. Understandable but not ideal.
I love you all.
Especially those who are ashamed of me.
I’m so ashamed of Enno.
I love you all. Especially those who are ashamed of me.
It seems to me you’ve taken the higher road in the discussion today. Thanks.
