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The "Document"

213 posts · 16 participants · started Dec 31, 2016, 9:21 PM

BradlyParticipant
Jan 3, 2017, 1:14 PM
Thank you VanAmadon….I can hardly contain my enthusiasm for your thoughtful sharing and my agreement.

Indeed, as you say, the UB comes at an advent or it would not be presented as an “epochal” revelation. Timing is an inherent attribute I would think to anything considered epochal. And I think it was Gene who pointed out (or perhaps Chuck) that term also describes an enduring influence expected by the authors.

I also agree, if I understand you correctly, that while the UB is filled with a factual presentation of universe reality and its creators and citizens to provide orientation to mortals lacking such knowledge, truth itself is discovered within by living and choosing according to our understanding of reality and how it works. We are able to live in reality and according to reality in recognition of reality and the perspective of reality…which most certainly should change our motives for living, our intentions at the intersections of choice, the priorities that drive our choices, and guide us in our relationships while living and choosing….all according to reality rather than some false construct of reality and with an understanding of our dual nature and our potential destiny. That destiny is best realized by the truths discovered while living a life within universe reality. We are “wired” for truth delivery, discovery, realization, response, and utilization if we can but overcome the material attachments and animal natures we are born with. Or so I see it.

I think the Spirit of Truth has been quite successful in awakening and personalizing the religious life and this gift of knowledge/facts is well timed as a response and additional fulcrum for the reality-response already gained in the mortal minds of Urantia due to the work of the 3 Spirits within us all – the Mother’s, Father’s, and Son’s. Society, or the aggregation of individuals, has also changed significantly due to these great uplifters and unifiers and harmonizers and has assisted in planetary progress through the mortal epochs.

Oracles, priests, sooth sayers, etc. are not particularly relevant…even if sincere…in such a time as we now live. The Document is an example of self importance and self interest that would defy free will by its dictatorial “instructions”. Perhaps I am missing it, but I don’t find the UB particularly declarative in instruction of what to do and when so much as how things work and what works and what does not work or bring desirable results. If you want these results, then here’s the perspective and the motive which will bring those results, however, there are as many choices and decisions and as much uniqueness of experience and expression as their are minds in the universe of universes….there are no specific things or order of things which everyone must all do alike. The universe is a celebration of individuality motivated by love, sharing, and caring but not proscribed to or by the same choices or expressions.

Jesus left us with but two commandments – both are based on love and individuality of expression and experience. The Document commands more…obedience….as do all forms of the priesthood. The contrast is stark indeed. The Document expresses impatience, another curiosity to me…given the epochal nature of the Revelation and planetary evolutionary progress. The Document defies evolution and substitutes a construct demand that simply can never be achieved….even if it were desirable….which it is not….we are instructed to go back in time and reconstruct the past (unscramble the egg) which ignores the present moment of situation, need, and opportunity…one might say it defies reality. Or so I see it.

I recognize I have not expressed myself well on this complex issue and look forward to the thoughts of others regarding those who would dictate what to do and how to do it and when to do it….or else!!

Thanks again to VanAmadon for the thoughtful articulation. = )

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Jan 3, 2017, 2:09 PM
I have to confess that I couldn’t even get past the title of the document without gagging. It’s so hateful right out of the gate, and so contrived. I mean incredibly contrived . . . using Jesus’ birthday? Come on guys, if you’re going to create something believable, you have to be less phony about it. And the voice, how harsh and unloving is that voice? It reminds me of the Old Testament volcano god. I can’t imagine any Melchizedek being so cranky. It’s so obviously human produced, anyone with half a brain should be able to see that. And why so political? Human politics have to be solved by humans. Humans who attempt to wield political power by fiat from the celestial realm are throw backs to the days of the divine right of kings. Why would this civilization want to go backward. Bizarre! These people need psychiatric help. I think they have meds for this.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 4, 2017, 1:38 PM

Bradly wrote: I recognize I have not expressed myself well on this complex issue and look forward to the thoughts of others regarding those who would dictate what to do and how to do it and when to do it….or else!!

You laugh yourself silly then carry on. Like the nobility . . . keep smiling, be calm and carry on. You absolutely cannot take these people seriously. When you do, you give them credence. Don’t do that. That’s what they crave. If pompous power-hungry palookas get the better of you, they’ve won. As of now, like Kirmeth the trance prophet, these control freaks only attract unstable and erratic souls who want to be controlled. The question becomes: what is our moral responsibility toward the unstable and erratic souls, of which there are quite a few? I think we give advice only when asked, and otherwise, smile and carry on, as we pass by. Those who want to save the world should consider the Master’s words: “May your wisdom equal your zeal and your courage atone for your ignorance.” (140:7.7)
GeneParticipant
Jan 4, 2017, 4:54 PM
“The question becomes: what is our moral responsibility toward the unstable and erratic souls, of which there are quite a few?”

ill give my opinion and may get censored for it:

Eugenics!
AnonymousInactive
Jan 4, 2017, 4:56 PM

Bradly wrote:

One must read Nick’s presentation for any context of comparison in our different perspectives of the past, present, and future of dissemination and the major organizations involved, as specified by Nick as the Foundation, the Brotherhood, the Fellowship, and the Urantia Association International (UAI). It is my position that Nick appears to exhibit significant disappointment in the state of, or progress with, dissemination by the major organizations; and that there seems to be both a sense of impatience and urgency to address his perceived deficiencies; and he seems very certain as to the “solutions” needed for these perceived and articulated failures in the 60 year history of dissemination efforts by the named organizations and the readership at large.

Bradly, I’m curious as to why you (personally) would have received a copy of this document, and why. As you indicate and assume that this “Nick” person is the originator of this document is also misleading, as I have mentioned previously, and now I have proof as to the primary author, where in the “document” it is mentioned the “Conciliating Commission” who’s or where its initial introduction seems to come from one individual (receiver/transmitter) back in 2012, which I have corresponding documentation to validate this, from that individuals posting to his self-administered forum. This individuals hatred for the UAI is well documented and it would now seem that the underlying intention for this planed broadcast works hand in hand with his idea of setting these various organization against themselves in order to further his plan to attempt to take over the potential market associated to the Urantia Book.

As I mentioned I have copies of his resent presentations regarding this document where it seems to have appeared on his forum as well, and he seems to be changing his attitude in order to present confusion, where the sheer size of this document and its self contained contradictive content by over statement and repetition of information, is synonymous to his writing style.

Bottom line is that this document is a product of a schizophrenic mind, where by his own admiration, is a requirement to be able to channel the higher spirits, where upon he also teaches others in how this can be accomplished. I have read his own narrations that he started his forum and various web-sites so that other individuals who may suffer from schizophrenia may have the opportunity to present their receptions as transmissions to the public. However, those so-called broadcasts are heavily monitored and augmented by this administrator if any material does not coincide with his mandates.

Being that there are meany followers who have attached themselves to his coattails, it would seem that he has also acquired a god complex, which if too many individuals attach themselves to this train, there could be a bigger problem in the future to come?
Van AmadonParticipant
Jan 4, 2017, 5:35 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

Being that there are meany followers who have attached themselves to his coattails, it would seem that he has also acquired a god complex, which if too many individuals attach themselves to this train, there could be a bigger problem in the future to come?

Midi, you’re very perceptive. I know you’re talking about Ron Besser. I think what he’s doing is very harmful, but it doesn’t take long to figure out that it’s all deception. He’s not the only one who does this between Urantia Book organizations and forums, deceiving who they really are. Some even cross gender.
GeneParticipant
Jan 4, 2017, 5:57 PM
It should be self evident by this thread that there will be no new epochal revelations for a very very long time. Assimilation of the 5th will likely require thousands of years.

In other words we are babies with a new toy.
AnonymousInactive
Jan 4, 2017, 6:28 PM

VanAmadon wrote:

MidiChlorian wrote:

Being that there are meany followers who have attached themselves to his coattails, it would seem that he has also acquired a god complex, which if too many individuals attach themselves to this train, there could be a bigger problem in the future to come?

Midi, you’re very perceptive. I know you’re talking about Ron Besser. I think what he’s doing is very harmful, but it doesn’t take long to figure out that it’s all deception. He’s not the only one who does this between Urantia Book organizations and forums, deceiving who they really are. Some even cross gender.

Regarding your assertion about the individual in question, I will not confirm or deny at this time, and as far as other individuals associating themselves, be it “cross gender” or otherwise, that would be a personal issue, and would be their prerogative to do so. Even the UB would concur that women have been oppressed and persecuted over time, and their voices negated just because of their gender, so if presenting themselves as someone else, works for them then so be it. It is the voice which is important, but when these voices dominate others it can also become concerning, but still can be considered as a viable opinion.

I have been researching many offshoot Urantia organizations, as well as the primary one’s and there would seem to be issues with all but, mostly sincere to their purpose as indicated. It is the ones that do not state a specific purpose, or have alternate reasons for their using the Urantia Book to foster financial, political and or personal endeavors that I find primarily most interesting, and secondly my interest is why people latch onto certain groups, and participate as they do, because everyone has issues which may affect their participation in such groups or multiple groups, and this gives me an insight into there personality patterns, that seem to make up multiple personalities, or not. The UB implies a dual nature but also indicates that there are many associated influences that can play a less than normal influence on anyone. So, my studies seem to make me more proficient in associating various psychologies just by observing the written words presented.

As to the aforementioned person, I have found many similarities between other subject that I have focused on and there seems to be to many similarities for this to be just coincidental. So, it would seem that there are fewer people represented then what would originally be associated to all of these occurrences.
AnonymousInactive
Jan 4, 2017, 6:39 PM

Gene wrote:

It should be self evident by this thread that there will be no new epochal revelations for a very very long time. Assimilation of the 5th will likely require thousands of years. In other words we are babies with a new toy.

This very well may be correct “Gene”, but this will not stop others from either creating their own supplements, for various purposes, and there will always be those who would believe them to be from whomever is indicated as their authors. Thereby, creating numerous cult type factions, which may or may not be good, in the ability to keep a majority from forming.

If it were possible to look into the future, in order to see how the Urantia Book may have influenced the future, there might be a concern if a majority were to form, and their followers, where to be misguided based on personal understandings of the book, the same thing has been seem in the various Bible sects. Maybe, the future is in jeopardy, if we do not understand how such products can effect the majority. Don’t forget this is an experimental planet.
GeneParticipant
Jan 4, 2017, 6:55 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

Gene wrote:

It should be self evident by this thread that there will be no new epochal revelations for a very very long time. Assimilation of the 5th will likely require thousands of years. In other words we are babies with a new toy.

This very well may be correct “Gene”, but this will not stop others from either creating their own supplements, for various purposes, and there will always be those who would believe them to be from whomever is indicated as their authors. Thereby, creating numerous cult type factions, which may or may not be good, in the ability to keep a majority from forming. If it were possible to look into the future, in order to see how the Urantia Book may have influenced the future, there might be a concern if a majority were to form, and their followers, where to be misguided based on personal understandings of the book, the same thing has been seem in the various Bible sects. Maybe, the future is in jeopardy, if we do not understand how such products can effect the majority. Don’t forget this is an experimental planet.

Well, with my first exposure to the revelation in 1971 I met John the Baptist now residing in Sedona and with very little reading or religious background I spotted a fraud with no help from anyone. His followers were increasing in numbers and I was out of there. I’m not highly educated and have average or maybe less than average intelligence.

Its not that difficult.

this spirit of truth within us really works. Even if we do not understand what it is or are knowledgeable of its presence.
Van AmadonParticipant
Jan 4, 2017, 7:21 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

Even the UB would concur that women have been oppressed and persecuted over time, and their voices negated just because of their gender, so if presenting themselves as someone else, works for them then so be it.

I can accept that. I had a mother, have a wife, and daughters too. I have always been sympathetic to they’re plight when it comes to unfair domination by men. I found what the Urantia Book has to say about it all very beautiful and edifying. I hope this gender struggle and conflict between women and men will start to improve more. It’s long overdue.
AnonymousInactive
Jan 4, 2017, 7:26 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

Well, with my first exposure to the revelation in 1971 I met John the Baptist now residing in Sedona and with very little reading or religious background I spotted a fraud with no help from anyone. His followers were increasing in numbers and I was out of there. I’m not highly educated and have average or maybe less than average intelligence.

Its not that difficult.

this spirit of truth within us really works. Even if we do not understand what it is or are knowledgeable of its presence.

Yes, that was you but, as you indicated “His followers were increasing in number”, why?
AnonymousInactive
Jan 4, 2017, 7:31 PM

VanAmadon wrote:

I have always been sympathetic to they’re plight when it comes to unfair domination by men.

And I agree. Also, what the UB presents is primarily a root cause for such domination, but today’s domination persists, and I can understand that some women may have developed anger towards this and to some degree, are attempting to get revenge.
GeneParticipant
Jan 4, 2017, 7:37 PM
why?

i don’t care to know because it is a problem I cannot solve and I rank his followers with the Jonestown koolaide drinkers, another type I don’t have the desire or energy to analyze.

the answer is eugenics

do t know what else to say about it.
Van AmadonParticipant
Jan 4, 2017, 7:46 PM

Gene wrote:

why? i don’t care to know because it is a problem I cannot solve and I rank his followers with the Jonestown koolaide drinkers, another type I don’t have the desire or energy to analyze.

the answer is eugenics

do t know what else to say about it.

(111:4.4) The inner and the outer worlds have a different set of values. Any civilization is in jeopardy when three quarters of its youth enter materialistic professions and devote themselves to the pursuit of the sensory activities of the outer world. Civilization is in danger when youth neglect to interest themselves in ethics, sociology, eugenics, philosophy, the fine arts, religion, and cosmology.

Youth, for some it’s a big problem.
Van AmadonParticipant
Jan 4, 2017, 8:03 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

VanAmadon wrote:

I have always been sympathetic to they’re plight when it comes to unfair domination by men.

And I agree. Also, what the UB presents is primarily a root cause for such domination, but today’s domination persists, and I can understand that some women may have developed anger towards this and to some degree, are attempting to get revenge.

Well, like you said, so be it. It only means that men now have a better opportunity to love women more. When this happens both are made better. Women have the right to be angry. Men have an obligation to protect this right.
Van AmadonParticipant
Jan 4, 2017, 8:09 PM

(68:5.8) Prepastoral society was one of sex co-operation, but the spread of animal husbandry reduced women to the depths of social slavery. In earlier times it was man’s duty to secure the animal food, woman’s business to provide the vegetable edibles. Therefore, when man entered the pastoral era of his existence, woman’s dignity fell greatly. She must still toil to produce the vegetable necessities of life, whereas the man need only go to his herds to provide an abundance of animal food. Man thus became relatively independent of woman; throughout the entire pastoral age woman’s status steadily declined. By the close of this era she had become scarcely more than a human animal, consigned to work and to bear human offspring, much as the animals of the herd were expected to labor and bring forth young. The men of the pastoral ages had great love for their cattle; all the more pity they could not have developed a deeper affection for their wives.
Van AmadonParticipant
Jan 4, 2017, 8:15 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

MidiChlorian wrote:

Well, with my first exposure to the revelation in 1971 I met John the Baptist now residing in Sedona and with very little reading or religious background I spotted a fraud with no help from anyone. His followers were increasing in numbers and I was out of there. I’m not highly educated and have average or maybe less than average intelligence.

Its not that difficult.

this spirit of truth within us really works. Even if we do not understand what it is or are knowledgeable of its presence.

Yes, that was you but, as you indicated “His followers were increasing in number”, why?

Why? It’s because they haven’t allowed their real spiritual experience to guide them yet.
AnonymousInactive
Jan 4, 2017, 8:38 PM

Gene wrote:

why?

i don’t care to know because it is a problem I cannot solve and I rank his followers with the Jonestown koolaide drinkers, another type I don’t have the desire or energy to analyze.

the answer is eugenics

do t know what else to say about it.

Yet your here on a Urantia forum? Where you indicated earlier “Well, with my first exposure to the revelation in 1971 I met John the Baptist now residing in Sedona”, where one might assume that this person introduced you to “the revelation”, which might indicate that your interest in the UB is different from back then, if my assumption is correct?

In general “eugenics” isn’t the answer, if we assume that all individuals are carriers of certain genetic traits. If this information was known, the the life carriers in the UB they would have been able to just put together a perfect package, and not having to rely on the intermingling between different races or beings, in order to augment their work. Education can be the most powerful influence to change the type of behavior problem you mention that leads persons to “the Jonestown koolaid drinkers,” and other types, where even education used by those “Jonestown” higher-ups, would be the wrong education, so what else could be helpful? I then assume your indication for “eugenics” would be directed towards the “johnstown” higher-ups. But then where does it stop?

This is relevant to this topic because these specific individuals are allowed to do their bidding because of free-will and in this case the bill of right, here in the US, and in other similar countries around the world, where all one has to do is shield their beliefs under a religion or church, regardless of the true definition thereof, and they are protected to perform their will on others regardless of possible consequence.

So, I’m sure that you and others would have opinions on these subjects, where “eugenics” is not the primary solution. How is it that people can be brainwashed to think differently and to do things that would otherwise be self-destructive? Even the fundamentalist UB students site the UB for these answers but really don’t understand its contents or purpose.
AnonymousInactive
Jan 4, 2017, 8:56 PM

VanAmadon wrote:

Why? It’s because they haven’t allowed their real spiritual experience to guide them yet.

Spirit is something that one cannot see and, as you have mentioned, comes from within. But if one looks back at Jesus’ intervention, attempting to proclaim, in a different way, what could be done, He merely seemed to add to the problem, because it would seem that everyone has their own definition of what a “real spiritual experience” is. Did he not say that he came to take peace from the Earth, or something to that nature. Where if one looks back to that time, what was going on then? And, it looks as if the same type of things are still going on now, just under a different name, or more of them?

If most of the people are preoccupied with putting food on the table, a roof over their heads, and hopefully staying healthy, what else is more important to them, to be able to have a “real spiritual experience”, because all of those material needs, most often involve an acquisition, not for themselves, but their family members who may not be able to fend for them-self?

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