213 posts · 16 participants · started Dec 31, 2016, 9:21 PM
I think that all of the religions of the world suffer from similar difficulties, as to why some failures are more apparent than others I’m not certain but losing ones head can be a factor.
this reader can talk about past experience with attempted brotherhoods or if I can coin a word brotherhoodisms – they come and go and I do believe that they have meaning and value in the Supreme as part of the evolutionary process.
I hope the following will be helpful. God is no respecter of persons. Goals, not creeds, should unify religionists. Shared psychological opinions and theological beliefs contribute to the various religious groups and creeds. But all religions “. . . have arisen as a result of man’s variable intellectual response to his identical spiritual leading.” ( 92:7.4 )
99:5.7 Just as certainly as men share their religious beliefs, they create a religious group of some sort which eventually creates common goals. Someday religionists will get together and actually effect co-operation on the basis of unity of ideals and purposes rather than attempting to do so on the basis of psychological opinions and theological beliefs. Goals rather than creeds should unify religionists. Since true religion is a matter of personal spiritual experience, it is inevitable that each individual religionist must have his own and personal interpretation of the realization of that spiritual experience. Let the term “fait h” stand for the individual’s relation to God rather than for the creedal formulation of what some group of mortals have been able to agree upon as a common religious attitude. “Have you faith? Then have it to yourself.”
. . . . .
99:6.2 There is a real purpose in the socialization of religion. It is the purpose of group religious activities to dramatize the loyalties of religion; to magnify the lures of truth, beauty, and goodness; to foster the attractions of supreme values; to enhance the service of unselfish fellowship; to glorify the potentials of family life; to promote religious education; to provide wise counsel and spiritual guidance; and to encourage group worship. And all live religions encourage human friendship, conserve morality, promote neighborhood welfare, and facilitate the spread of the essential gospel of their respective messages of eternal salvation.
Hi,
Samuel before go further about “intellectualization”, would you ask your daughter what is her définition of it ?
What happened when you over-intellectualize and when you under-intellectualize?
She must be able to define what is for the use of intellect?
Is actions are the result of a proper and balanced intellect?
How can she knows Urantians reader over-intellectualize —- could it be because we are not millions in numbers?
Is quantity an indicative of sound actions? Internet is a tool. Talking about quantity … did she have quantity friends or quality friends on facebook?
Thanks you,
André
p.s. I saw first video and inspiring such commitment from individuals
Hi André and all of you,
We can imagine a person collecting a lot of information about what a burn means, without ever getting burned.
She will try to imagine and imagine the burn and will never really feel what it means to get burned!
The only thing that would make it possible to make the link between intellect and feeling is experimentation.
Experimentation makes it possible to move from knowledge (intellect) to action.
To “know” brotherhood and unity among all men, it is necessary to experience it.
The two videos give an example.
Samuel
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator
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Salut André et vous tous,
Nous pouvons imaginer une personne qui collectionne une multitude d’informations sur ce qu’une brûlure veut dire, sans jamais se brûler.
Elle essaiera d’imaginer et de se représenter la brûlure et n’arrivera jamais à vraiment ressentir ce que signifie se brûler !
La seule chose qui permettrait de faire le lien de l’intellect au ressenti est l’expérimentation.
L’expérimentation permet de passer du savoir (intellect) à l’action.
Pour « connaitre » la fraternité et l’unité entre tous les hommes il faut l’expérimenter.
Les deux vidéos donnent un exemple.
Samuel
Note : En anglais « Savoir » et « Connaitre » se traduit identiquement.
Friendship enhances joys, glorifies the triumphs of life and fidelity is a treasure of the soul.
It is very difficult to communicate because the translation is not accurate. 
Friendship enhances joys, glorifies the triumphs of life and fidelity is a treasure of the soul.
The number of Baha’is has increased considerably. From about 400,000 in 1963, the year of the first Bahá’í World Congress, it grew to about 3,500,000 in 1985 and 7 million members from more than 2,100 ethnic groups in more than 189 countries in 2011.
Brotherhood, friendship and active service are contagious! 
What a great example.
Samuel
Friendship enhances joys, glorifies the triumphs of life and fidelity is a treasure of the soul.
The only thing that would make it possible to make the link between intellect and feeling is experimentation.
So you’re saying that experience is the link between thinking and feeling? Is that the purpose of experience?
TUB tells us the purpose of experience is to add meaning to value. It makes sense then that thoughtful appreciation of value would have to precede experience. Therefore, thought must come before action. Otherwise a person is living only on the feeling/reacting level of life, which is no better than an animal, more like an amoeba. I can’t stress how important it is to strive for your very highest thinking in search of value if you want to find true meaning in the experience of life.
100:3.4 Meaning is something which experience adds to value; it is the appreciative consciousness of values. An isolated and purely selfish pleasure may connote a virtual devaluation of meanings, a meaningless enjoyment bordering on relative evil. Values are experiential when realities are meaningful and mentally associated, when such relationships are recognized and appreciated by mind.
100:3.5 Values can never be static; reality signifies change, growth. Change without growth, expansion of meaning and exaltation of value, is valueless—is potential evil. The greater the quality of cosmic adaptation, the more of meaning any experience possesses. Values are not conceptual illusions; they are real, but always they depend on the fact of relationships. Values are always both actual and potential—not what was, but what is and is to be.
100:3.6 The association of actuals and potentials equals growth, the experiential realization of values. But growth is not mere progress. Progress is always meaningful, but it is relatively valueless without growth. The supreme value of human life consists in growth of values, progress in meanings, and realization of the cosmic interrelatedness of both of these experiences. And such an experience is the equivalent of God-consciousness. Such a mortal, while not supernatural, is truly becoming superhuman; an immortal soul is evolving.
I’m curious to know how Samuel thinks TUB and the Bahá’í Faith intersect. What does the Fifth Epochal Revelation have to offer the followers of this religion?
Hi Bonita,
According to The Urantia Book, they will go mostly to the mansion worlds and will eventually perceive a greater coherence in the intelligent organization of God’s plan.
In the immediate future, the Urantia Book can enable those who are interested to see in Jesus our Creator Son and to come to come out of the “God of the Law” and enter into the understanding of a “God of Love”.
Anyway, everyone can learn from each other.
Best regards.
Samuel
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Salut Bonita,
D’après le livre d’Urantia, ils et elles iront majoritairement sur les mondes des maisons et finirons par percevoir une plus grande cohérence dans l’organisation intelligente du plan de Dieu.
Dans l’immédiat, le livre d’urantia peut permettre à ceux qui sont intéressé de voir en Jésus notre fils créateur et d’en arriver à sortir du « Dieu de la lois » pour entrer dans la compréhension d’un « Dieu d’Amour ».
Quoi qu‘il en soit, chacun peut apprendre de l’autre.
Amitiés.
Samuel
Friendship enhances joys, glorifies the triumphs of life and fidelity is a treasure of the soul.
Anyway, everyone can learn from each other.
Most definitely!
I am always curious and suspicious whenever I perceive anyone who appears to believe that they know what other people believe or what other people do or are not doing or should be doing instead of what someone thinks they’re doing or instead of what they should be doing.
It’s an interesting behavioral choice and predilection for some of us. It begins with a presumption based on a fiction and falsehood…that I or we or someone or anyone might factually and objectively know what someone else or anyone else or, most especially, what everyone else is actually doing or generally doing. What a farce. An obvious false assumption which can only result in false conclusions.
We know by the teachings that a true religious experience results in the actual expression and doing based on decisions delivered by the experience. Our motives and intentions are changed which effect our decisions. Everyone is making an endless stream of decisions and taking action based on their own motives and decisions which no one of us might know.
To claim UB readers merely intellectualize the Revelation is to believe they are not having a personal religious experience and that this epochal revelation they embrace is not a source of cause with effect or with teachings that transform one’s thinking and choosing and becoming and very being. But such a claim also logically indicates a belief in one’s own knowledge of what all others are or are not doing and should otherwise be or not be doing instead. Wow.
The word hubris comes to mind.
This entire topic and the Treatise itself is about the disappointments of some people and these false presumptions of their own invention which lack objectivity and perspective and factual knowledge. Those who believe the UB movement has failed or falters do not see reality clearly or with the proper time unit perspective but do suffer from an immaturity and impatience that delivers their disappointment with both false perception and priorities. Or so I think.
Watch out for that beam in your eye!!
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Hi, Bradly,
I would like to share this quote, which I really like.
“Between what I think, what I want to say, what I believe I say, what I say, what you want to hear, what you believe to hear, what you hear, what you want to understand, what you think you understand, what you understand…They are ten possibilities that we might have some problem communicating. But let’s try anyway…”
I have to leave you because something big is blocking my eye. 
Experience all things, remember what is good!
Samuel
Friendship enhances joys, glorifies the triumphs of life and fidelity is a treasure of the soul.
Explaining more or less well is how I feel immediately.
I think I come at a time in my life when I am getting a better and better understanding of what Jesus would have done in my place.
The great adventure I want to live at forty-five years old is “to believe what I say and do what I believe”.
The fraternity, friendship and service that I idealize; it is up to me to realize it on the island of Reunion.
Without false sentimentality and without fanaticism.
We can now move on to another subject.
Thank you to all of you.
Samuel
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Expliquer plus ou moins bien, c’est ce que je ressens immédiatement.
Je pense que j’arrive à un moment de ma vie où je comprends de mieux en mieux ce que Jésus aurait fait à ma place.
La grande aventure que je veux vivre à quarante-cinq ans, c’est “croire ce que je dis et faire ce que je crois”.
La fraternité, l’amitié et le service que j’idéalise, c’est à moi de le réaliser sur l’île de la Réunion.
Sans fausse sentimentalité et sans fanatisme.
Nous pouvons maintenant passer à un autre sujet.
Merci à vous tous.
Samuel
Friendship enhances joys, glorifies the triumphs of life and fidelity is a treasure of the soul.
Samuel, your comments are inspiring to me! Thank you for positive teaching!
I wish you a lot of luck Samuel. May Jesus be with you.
And I’ll share a favorite with you:
Things are not as they appear …and neither are they different.
I have not been able to identify why you chose this topic to revive of all the ones available.
My best wishes too.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Bradley,
On behalf of our brother from his legitimate exercise of “free will” Samuel decide to act on this subject.
Anybody on brotherhood enhancement will deny it or suggest otherwise ?
Anybody on siblings improvement will encourage a new participant ?
Come on … !
André
p.s. obviously Bradley was “watch out for that beam in your eye” essential to reach out and participate to unity?
Hmmmmm….I’m a little confused here Andre. My posts have been about the authors and supporters of The Treatise or the topic of this thread, The “Document” who have declared the work of thousands of volunteers over 6 decades to have failed and be in default and the Movement to itself be a failure. I confess I still do not understand why Samuel refreshed this particular topic or his actual point since his first post related to the topic. But no matter, Samuel is most welcome to post and to his opinions.
Let me be clear and direct here: Samuel – if I have offended you in any way, I apologize sincerely and hope for your forgiveness. Brother, I have been too unclear as to your own opinions here so far to directly disagree with you about anything.
But those who complain about the organizations and the movement have much in common and do fit a certain profile of lament, disappointment in others, expectations of others, and an apparent knowledge of all others I find particularly annoying, especially regarding the practical impossibility of even holding such encompassing knowledge as a mortal of limited and subjective perspective. There are readers who share a disappointment not only in the progress of the Movement but also of our world, a disappointment that certainly indicts the Most Highs and those who serve our world as well as the celestials charged with the Revelation’s universal success. Readers of the Papers should certainly understand the time frames and patience required for evolutionary progress through the Mortal Epochs and the leaven effect of each Epochal Revelation on a world.
To your own posts here, you first seem to be in agreement that the UB movement should not be focused on creating another evolutionary religion. But then compare the UB movement to Ba’hai which is an evolutionary religion. Your first two posts:
The main thing is that we become in time, a living example of brotherhood and friendship, of men and women, filled with the fruits of the spirit and that it becomes contagious for the whole world. (Especially for youth)
Are we the result of our actions?
Jesus did more in a few years of ministry than his disciples in more than two thousand years.
May Jesus be the unifying model for the realization of the era of light and life on earth.
In Unicity.
Samuel
Let’s not be afraid!!!!!
Creating a new religion has become outdated and useless.
The younger generations are increasingly turning away from religious institutions.
Whether it’s the old or the new!
Because more and more intelligent they judge trees by their fruits.
When the sterility of audiovisual relations, materialism and selfishness are understood, the younger generations will feel the need to live true fraternity.
In thoughts, feelings and actions for the construction of an ideal world.
For religion, the true religion, is the indispensable source of the higher energy that drives men to establish a higher civilization based on human brotherhood. (LU/79 :4.9)
Everything in us in the Love of God.
Samuel
Then you say:
I hope that the Urantian brotherhood will not wait 1000 years to organize concrete ideas of selfless and altruistic services in society.
There are countless useful and constructive ideas for yourself and others.
In humanitarian and social work!
This must be one of the main objectives for the realization of social fraternity in our world.
Be living examples of what we believe in.
This is the emerging factor of a superior civilization based on human brotherhood!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyA4ScSogVQ
Let me ask you this: Are you able to drink the cup I’m about to drink?
(LU/171:0.5)
Jesus our model!
That’s my prayer.
Samuel
Me here: Do you think the Urantia brotherhood has been or is waiting to organize concrete ideas of selfless and altruistic services in society? Do you think it altruistic to disseminate the 5th Epochal Revelation to our world in one million years and the movement itself for dissemination and socialization but 60 years into such an enterprise? What value do you think such an effort has to a world and what benefit might such a successful effort of selfless service have I wonder for those so engaged and those who discover the Revelation by their efforts, expectantly an entire planet in just a few dozen generations of time? How many have served how well to deliver this single tool of a website and forum of learning, socialization, and discussion to us today I wonder? And do you think the tens/hundreds of thousands of readers over the decades also serve in many living examples of what they believe in with the very real objective of social fraternity in our world? I certainly do think and know first hand that we do so!
Then later you also post:
My 17-year-old daughter, to a Baha’i friend and told me one morning; “you readers of The Urantia Book, intellectualize yourself a lot on the Internet but you don’t do much in action.”
She also told me, “Dad, share this little film with your friends who read The Urantia Book and take some of it. No wonder there are so few of you.”
https://www.bahai.org/light-to-the-world/
This is my daughter’s opinion of the judgment she had in learning about the activities of readers of The Urantia Book on the Internet and social networks.
I love the kid!
Samuel
Me here: So in this post we read opinions that readers of the UB intellectualize ourselves a lot and don’t do much in action and there are few of us. Pardon me if I find these opinions rather uninformed and naïve….but not so uncommon. I wonder why you Samuel decided it appropriate to share such opinions here?
It is my hope we can all share ideas and opinions here in conversation but that we may express differences of opinion and opposing ideas without people taking opposition personally and without offence. It has not been my intention to offend anyone. But I certainly do disagree with Samuel’s daughter’s opinions as posted! Samuel’s opinions not so much.
So, Samuel, can you tell us why you refreshed this topic? What is it about the Document you agree with or disagree with or find interesting?
Bradly
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Hi, Bradly,
My sharing corresponds to a feeling and an intuition.
I do not claim to be right, far from it.
To form an opinion of this feeling I also published these shares on :
http://forum.urantia.fr/index.php/forum/messagesrecents
As the only reader of the Urantia Book on Reunion Island, the Internet is for me a means of communication and sharing.
I am not offended Bradly, on the contrary, thank you for your attention and sharing.
Let us not forget also the language barrier.
Best regards. 
Samuel
Friendship enhances joys, glorifies the triumphs of life and fidelity is a treasure of the soul.
… here’s my boy !
Sorry Bradley for my misinterpretation. As Samuel judiciously quote earlier Bernard Weber.
n.b. Thanks to my speech therapist, I stutter less.
André
Hi, my big brother André,
It’s late at home, aren’t you in bed yet?
See you soon.
Samuel
Friendship enhances joys, glorifies the triumphs of life and fidelity is a treasure of the soul.
