The Bright and Morning Star

158 posts · 10 participants · started Jan 28, 2015, 1:46 PM

1. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Feb 11, 2015, 3:08 PM

   I’m inclined to believe that Gabriel’s visitations were an integral part of the bestowal plan.  Recall that when John retold the story of Gabriel’s visit to Mary after Jesus’ baptism, his followers became even more curious about Jesus and his message.   This was an era of miracle-seeking.  Everyone was looking for signs from heaven.

   135:9.1 When John returned to his disciples (he now had some twenty-five or thirty who abode with him constantly), he found them in earnest conference, discussing what had just happened in connection with Jesus’ baptism. They were all the more astonished when John now made known to them the story of the Gabriel visitation to Mary before Jesus was born, and also that Jesus spoke no word to him even after he had told him about this. There was no rain that evening, and this group of thirty or more talked long into the starlit night. They wondered where Jesus had gone, and when they would see him again.

2. T

   tasParticipant
   Feb 11, 2015, 3:52 PM

   Keryn wrote:

   emanny3003 wrote:

   Why did Gabriel tell Mary and Elizabeth ahead of time that they carried children of destiny? What did he hope to accomplish with giving these women foreknowledge of what was to come? Can you think of any good that came of this message giving? Can you think of any harm that may have come of this preview of coming attractions?

   Perhaps it was in recognition of the equality of these women in Michael’s Bestowal and to acknowledge their critical role in bringing it about. Perhaps also to give them guidance and increased motivation (above even that which comes naturally to most pregnant women) to care for herself and her unborn child and not to take unnecessary risks with regard to the gestating period. I cannot think of any harm that may have come from giving them the awareness in advance that the child they are carrying is of unprecedented import. I can only think of good that would come of it; a shared understanding of the respect and recognition of the female role in universe affairs (which is a lesson not only to them but to us as well); a gentle reminder to care for their pregnancy and themselves; and most likely many other positive outcomes of which we have no understanding while in our current mortal state.

   The answer of “why” is provided right at the beginning of Gabriel’s visitation, they are the very first words from Gabriel:

   “One evening about sundown, before Joseph had returned home, Gabriel appeared to Mary by the side of a low stone table and, after she had recovered her composure, said: “I come at the bidding of one who is my Master and whom you shall love and nurture. To you, Mary, I bring glad tidings…” (122:3.1)

   The reason Gabriel announced to Mary that she was carrying the child of destiny was because Gabriel was told to do so.  Anybody who wants to question the wisdom of that further, they’ll have to take it up with the Creator Son.

3. B

   BradlyParticipant
   Feb 11, 2015, 3:59 PM
   emanny3003 wrote:

   BTW, where has Michael been for the past 2000 years? A revelation essentially commissioned by Gabriel tells us nothing of Michael’s whereabouts. Michael could have written Part IV of TUB first hand, an autobiography, but did not. Why?

    

   Well….as just one tadpole of many trillions of us in this universe of Michael’s creation, my assumption would be that the settled and supreme sovereign and Master Son of his own creation is exactly, precisely even, wherever he needs to be, wants to be, and ………. where he’s supposed to be.  But hey, that’s just me.

   Michael has always been in charge of Nebadon and now, even more so.  But beyond that is the superuniverse and central universe admins and creators.  Where is God’s hand not found I wonder?   The UB was written and presented by Michael’s authority and direction one must presume since he is indeed the Creator and Master Son….and Gabriel is his first born and most trusted servant.

   It sounds by your inquiry that you doubt who’s in charge and then who’s in charge of them.  You think Michael is missing?  Or indifferent?  Or lacks control or authority?  Weird.  That’s all a little above my pay grade to speculate or make claims or doubt or fear.

   "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

4. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Feb 11, 2015, 4:34 PM

   tas wrote:  The reason Gabriel announced to Mary that she was carrying the child of destiny was because Gabriel was told to do so.  Anybody who wants to question the wisdom of that further, they’ll have to take it up with the Creator Son.

   Exactly!  Which is another reason why I said that I’m inclined to believe that it was all part of the bestowal plan.

   Bradly wrote: . . . .the settled and supreme sovereign and Master Son of his own creation is exactly, precisely even, wherever he needs to be, wants to be, and ………. where he’s supposed to be.

   Exactly!  And I know as a fact where he is. He’s in my soul.  The Spirit of Truth is the Master. Wondering where he is and what he’s doing seems to be a failure to recognize his presence alive and well right inside of your soul.  Moreover, having attained the experience of Supremacy, having exhausted all the potentials of finite experience, Michael now portrays to his entire universe the divinity of the Supreme Being.  And when divinity becomes like humanity it makes it possible that humanity can become like divinity.  This is what makes our Michael the LIVING WAY.

   Soooo . . . I think he’s rather busy doing  what a Master of Supremacy does:

   • a living channel from humanity to divinity (117:3.4)
   • the universe approach to the transcendence of finite limitations (117:3.4)
   • the great avenue through which the love of the Father flows outward to all creation (117:6.3)
   • the great avenue through which finite creatures pass inward in their quest of the Father (117:6.3)
   • revealing the Supreme and participating in the actualization of the sovereignty of Supremacy (119:8.7)
5. MK

   Mark KurtzParticipant
   Feb 11, 2015, 5:39 PM
   emanny3003 wrote:

   BTW, where has Michael been for the past 2000 years? A revelation essentially commissioned by Gabriel tells us nothing of Michael’s whereabouts. Michael could have written Part IV of TUB first hand, an autobiography, but did not. Why?

    

   The authors tell us a Creator Son may leave his domain, but the Universe Mother cannot.  Michael is free to go anywhere he pleases at any time without restriction, except as the Paradise Father may limit him.  He may visit other local universes and the Master Sons do gather on Paradise.  His Spirit of Truth is present in all his believing children, so Bonita is right, Michael is in her and all other Nebadon believers.

   One could be very satisfied knowing Michael’s location at any moment, but we could be satisfied without knowing because we have a capable Master Son-Father-Brother with a desire to be in all of us!

   Many of our questions are addressed in the book!  This is a marvelous feature of the book!

    

6. E

   emanny3003Blocked
   Feb 11, 2015, 9:45 PM

   Keryn wrote:

   I cannot think of any harm that may have come from giving them the awareness in advance that the child they are carrying is of unprecedented import.

   What about the tremendous discord between mother and son as to his Mission on Earth. Messiah of the Jewish variety or spiritual teacher?

   Keryn wrote:

   Me, here. Clearly, Michael is too busy to write his autobiography.

   Michael is in charge of time. No excuse if he really wanted to write it. As it is, he did not even allow his name in TUB as a sponsor of any paper.

   Keryn wrote:

   Keep in mind, also, that Elizabeth and Mary were far from the only people to be given advance notice.

   But not by Gabriel personally. Who authorized Gabriel to give notice to Mary? Who authorized the unnamed seraphim?

   Bonita wrote:

   I’m inclined to believe that Gabriel’s visitations were an integral part of the bestowal plan.

   We are told of the bestowal plan and this detail was left out. Why? Was it authorized by Immanuel or did Gabriel do this one this own? Or did Michael tell Gabriel to disclose this to Mary? I can hear the Master say, “tell no one”.

   Bonita wrote:

   They were all the more astonished when John now made known to them the story of the Gabriel visitation to Mary before Jesus was born, and also that Jesus spoke no word to him even after he had told him about this.

   (135:9.1)

   Jesus did not acknowledge to John the issue of Gabriel’s visitation to Mary. Hmmm.

   tas wrote:

   “One evening about sundown, before Joseph had returned home, Gabriel appeared to Mary by the side of a low stone table and, after she had recovered her composure, said: “I come at the bidding of one who is my Master and whom you shall love and nurture. To you, Mary, I bring glad tidings…” (122:3.1)

   The reason Gabriel announced to Mary that she was carrying the child of destiny was because Gabriel was told to do so.  Anybody who wants to question the wisdom of that further, they’ll have to take it up with the Creator Son.

   I already have.

   We assume that Gabriel’s Master is none other than Michael, but at this time Michael was already incarnated. Was Gabriel told to do such a thing before the bestowal of Michael or by Immanuel?

   Bradly wrote:

   It sounds by your inquiry that you doubt who’s in charge and then who’s in charge of them.  You think Michael is missing?  Or indifferent?  Or lacks control or authority?  Weird.  That’s all a little above my pay grade to speculate or make claims or doubt or fear.</blockquote

   It sounds by your inquiry to my inquiry that you really don’t care. So it is better to shut up in such cases. Pay grade?

   I thought you were a volunteer to fear and doubt.

   Mark Kurtz wrote:

   Many of our questions are addressed in the book!  This is a marvelous feature of the book!

   But I have so many more questions. And I am getting them answered. Ask and you shall receive.

7. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Feb 11, 2015, 10:31 PM

   So Bradly,  what did you think of my answer to your question about righteous indignation?  Did you get a chance to read it? Post #13201

8. B

   BradlyParticipant
   Feb 11, 2015, 10:50 PM

   I found it to be spot on!  Thank you.  That explains it very well I think.  Jesus allowed plots against his life, and insults, and entrapments, and all manner of vicious personal abuse with no response.  But to those who cause unfair suffering and exploit others his indignation was allowed expression.  I remember him saying something about defending himself to Ganid and supporting those who suffer from an unrighteous minority to remove them; both of which further support your explanation.  You’re a peach Bonita.  And I am grateful for your persistent patience with this tadpole.

   By the way, for those who do not know my definition of tadpole:  all ascending mortals who are not yet fused, still have their tadpole tail and live underwater yet….so I do not demean myself…..or elevate others by my use of the term.  I think it is what was meant by the “parable” or lesson on loyalty and sincerity.  Hey…..I really enjoy my current status.  There’s so much to do and learn.  It’s great fun when one believes in the source and the destiny of tadpoles!!

   

   "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

9. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Feb 11, 2015, 11:39 PM

   Bradly wrote: Jesus allowed plots against his life, and insults, and entrapments, and all manner of vicious personal abuse with no response.

   That’s right.  Jesus did not engage in self-defense.  Self-defensive behavior is only necessary for those who think their self is important enough to defend.  Jesus was selfless, so no need to defend it.

   Self-defensiveness must be a stumbling block to the acceptance of truth.  I say that because Jesus told us that he used parables because they aroused very little of the self–defensiveness of personal resentment (151:3.8).  If only we could all converse in parables . . .  but alas not.

10. E

    emanny3003Blocked
    Feb 12, 2015, 12:35 AM

    Bonita wrote:

    If only we could all converse in parables . . .  but alas not.

    Perhaps we can converse in parabolas? Ha Ha. Just a little humor as we are in sore need of it here.

11. B

    BonitaParticipant
    Feb 12, 2015, 3:13 PM

    122:02  . . . Subsequent to this decision Gabriel made a personal visit to Urantia, and, as a result of his study of human groups and his survey of the spiritual, intellectual, racial, and geographic features of the world and its peoples, he decided that the Hebrews possessed those relative advantages which warranted their selection as the bestowal race.

    Gabriel chose the Hebrews . . . hmmm, so in a sense, they were the chosen people.  They were chosen because of their spiritual, intellectual, racial and geographic features, but not necessarily because of their organized, evolutionary religion.  It is interesting that the Hebrews rabbis understood Gabriel to be an archangel, one of the highest angels in the celestial hierarchy and the leader of the angelic hosts.  Along with the archangel Michael, he is mentioned by name in the Hebrew scriptures (Daniel 8&9), mostly involving the interpretation of dreams, visions and prophecy.

12. N

    nelsongParticipant
    Feb 12, 2015, 8:32 PM

    hmmm, so in a sense, they were the chosen people.

    ______________________________________________________________________

    This notion was masterfully capitalized upon over the centuries. Likely without this concept Judeo/Christian would not exist. It hung on like the atonement doctrine. A fanatical response to spiritual interaction IMHO. A hard lesson to be learned if it ever happens.

13. E

    emanny3003Blocked
    Feb 13, 2015, 12:01 AM

    Bonita wrote:

    122:02  . . . Subsequent to this decision Gabriel made a personal visit to Urantia, and, as a result of his study of human groups and his survey of the spiritual, intellectual, racial, and geographic features of the world and its peoples, he decided that the Hebrews possessed those relative advantages which warranted their selection as the bestowal race.

    Gabriel chose the Hebrews . . . hmmm, so in a sense, they were the chosen people.

    Here Gabriel chooses the parents of Jesus, a personal decision on his part.

    When Gabriel chose to visit Mary with news of her “son of destiny” he attributed his visit to the “bidding of his Master”

    So we are told that Gabriel is free to decide on his own accord to “choose” the parents of Jesus but wants us to believe that in visiting Mary and Elizabeth he had acted on orders from his Master. Hmmm. Does this seem logical? Is Gabriel looking for an excuse for having ‘spilled the beans’, ‘let the cat out of the bag’, with Mary and Elizabeth? He did tell Mary to tell no one except Joseph and Elizabeth of his visitation. Payton Place in Nazareth?

14. M

    MaraParticipant
    Feb 13, 2015, 1:29 AM

    Bonita wrote:  Gabriel chose the Hebrews . . .

    And this is the reference – the context:

    122:0:2   After a study of the special report on the status of segregated worlds prepared by the Melchizedeks, in counsel with Gabriel, Michael finally chose Urantia as the planet whereon to enact his final bestowal. Subsequent to this decision Gabriel made a personal visit to Urantia, and, as a result of his study of human groups and his survey of the spiritual, intellectual, racial, and geographic features of the world and its peoples, he decided that the Hebrews possessed those relative advantages which warranted their selection as the bestowal race. Upon Michael’s approval of this decision, Gabriel appointed and dispatched to Urantia the Family Commission of Twelve — selected from among the higher orders of universe personalities — which was intrusted with the task of making an investigation of Jewish family life. When this commission ended its labors, Gabriel was present on Urantia and received the report nominating three prospective unions as being, in the opinion of the commission, equally favorable as bestowal families for Michael’s projected incarnation.

    A study was conducted. A special report prepared.  Michael chose Urantia. Gabriel came to Urantia and chose the Hebrews.  Michael approved of the decision. Gabriel dispatched a special commission of 12 selected from among the higher orders of universe personalities to further study Jewish family life.  Gabriel got the report of the commission’s findings that three equally favorable bestowal families were found for Michael’s incarnation.

    And from the three couples nominated, Gabriel made the personal choice of Joseph and Mary, subsequently making his personal appearance to Mary, at which time he imparted to her the glad tidings that she had been selected to become the earth mother of the bestowal child.
15. E

    emanny3003Blocked
    Feb 13, 2015, 3:42 AM

    Mara wrote:

    And from the three couples nominated, Gabriel made the personal choice of Joseph and Mary, subsequently making his personal appearance to Mary, at which time he imparted to her the glad tidings that she had been selected to become the earth mother of the bestowal child.

    And the question remains as to why it was necessary to tell Mary of anything special about her child especially when Jesus was to grow up and live the life of an average mortal. By telling Mary of the child of destiny that she carried, Gabriel betrayed the bestowal by injecting false expectations and confusion into the mind of the mother of Jesus. Why did Gabriel do this? At the bidding of his Master? This seems to be wrong somehow. If Michael wanted to live a life as a man among men, then why cripple his efforts from day one with news to his parents of matters beyond their understanding? Does anyone else think this is counter productive to the bestowal?

16. M

    MaraParticipant
    Feb 13, 2015, 3:25 PM

    emanny3003 wrote:  And the question remains as to why . . . .

    Who knows?  It is speculation.
17. B

    BonitaParticipant
    Feb 13, 2015, 3:27 PM

    Mara wrote:  Gabriel came to Urantia and chose the Hebrews.

    And the UB gives us clues as to why Gabriel chose the Hebrews.  We know the following:

    • The Jews were eminently fitted to utilize Greek culture and language the effective spread of a new religion to both East and West. (121:1.1)
    • The influence of Jewish religious and moral teachings were rapidly spreading throughout the Occident. (121:1.6)
    • The Jews were the most influential group of the Semitic peoples. (121:2.1)
    • The Jews occupied a strategic geographic position in the world for organized trade and travel. (121:2.1-2)
    • The Jews were spread abroad in the diaspora, dwelling and trading in every province of the Roman and Parthian states. (121:2.3)
    • The Jews had more than two hundred synagogues and well-organized religious communities scattered throughout the Roman world, which provided the cultural centers in which the new gospel of the kingdom of heaven could take root and spread. (121:2.4)
    • Each Jewish synagogue tolerated a fringe of gentile believers. (121:2.5)
    • The Jewish people enjoyed a considerable degree of self-government, mostly because of their fortuitous geopolitical situation. (121:2.7-8)
18. E

    emanny3003Blocked
    Feb 13, 2015, 4:56 PM

    Bonita wrote:

    And the UB gives us clues as to why Gabriel chose the Hebrews.  We know the following:

    Obviously the best choice on Gabriel’s part. But in choosing the parents of Jesus he also chose to tell Mary of the bestowal. I do not think it was wise and Michael may not have approved but did not forbid it.

19. M

    MaraParticipant
    Feb 13, 2015, 5:12 PM

    And the UB gives us clues as to why Gabriel chose the Hebrews. We know the following:

    • The Jews were eminently fitted to utilize Greek culture and language the effective spread of a new religion to both East and West. (121:1.1)
    • The influence of Jewish religious and moral teachings were rapidly spreading throughout the Occident. (121:1.6)
    • The Jews were the most influential group of the Semitic peoples. (121:2.1)
    • The Jews occupied a strategic geographic position in the world for organized trade and travel. (121:2.1-2)
    • The Jews were spread abroad in the diaspora, dwelling and trading in every province of the Roman and Parthian states. (121:2.3)
    • The Jews had more than two hundred synagogues and well-organized religious communities scattered throughout the Roman world, which provided the cultural centers in which the new gospel of the kingdom of heaven could take root and spread. (121:2.4)
    • Each Jewish synagogue tolerated a fringe of gentile believers. (121:2.5)
    • The Jewish people enjoyed a considerable degree of self-government, mostly because of their fortuitous geopolitical situation. (121:2.7-8)

     

     

    And,  122:0:1 IT WILL hardly be possible fully to explain the many reasons which led to the selection of Palestine as the land for Michael’s bestowal, and especially as to just why the family of Joseph and Mary should have been chosen as the immediate setting for the appearance of this Son of God on Urantia.

20. E

    emanny3003Blocked
    Feb 13, 2015, 5:36 PM

    Mara wrote:

    And,  122:0:1 IT WILL hardly be possible fully to explain the many reasons which led to the selection of Palestine as the land for Michael’s bestowal, and especially as to just why the family of Joseph and Mary should have been chosen as the immediate setting for the appearance of this Son of God on Urantia.

    And what are YOUR thoughts on this, Mara? What does YOUR TA tell you? Have you asked? Have you listened?

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