158 posts · 10 participants · started Jan 28, 2015, 1:46 PM
Apparently, once Nebadon is settled in light and life there are readjustments in the administration. Then Gabriel will have direct contact with the Ancients of Days while Michael is away from Salvington. He only has indirect contact now.
I am wondering whether the future administration will have incorporated some of lucifer’s call for greater freedom. As we approach greater perfection, what is the perfect administration? I would guess that it would be more like Havona.
Poor Gabriel. It seems that more than once he’s been used by humans to legitimize their misconceptions.
92:2.5 This is well illustrated by the example of a certain New Zealand tribe whose priests, after nominally accepting Christianity, professed to have received direct revelations from Gabriel to the effect that this selfsame tribe had become the chosen people of God and directing that they be permitted freely to indulge in loose sex relations and numerous other of their olden and reprehensible customs. And immediately all of the new-made Christians went over to this new and less exacting version of Christianity.
Poor Gabriel. It seems that more than once he’s been used by humans to legitimize their misconceptions.
92:2.5 This is well illustrated by the example of a certain New Zealand tribe whose priests, after nominally accepting Christianity, professed to have received direct revelations from Gabriel to the effect that this selfsame tribe had become the chosen people of God and directing that they be permitted freely to indulge in loose sex relations and numerous other of their olden and reprehensible customs. And immediately all of the new-made Christians went over to this new and less exacting version of Christianity.
Notice that this Melchizedek author provides his opinion and judgement (bias).
Recall that Jesus refused to attend the Roman baths with his Indian friends but provided no opinion or judgement.
I am wondering whether the future administration will have incorporated some of lucifer’s call for greater freedom. As we approach greater perfection, what is the perfect administration? I would guess that it would be more like Havona.
Please describe those elements of the Manifesto which you deem worthy of incorporation in Nebadon’s administration. What does “greater freedom” mean? Greater than what? And to what end? False liberty cannot be made into True liberty. So, no, I don’t think there is such a thing as “greater” freedom than the great freedom we enjoy as children of God with his divine gift of free will. Are we not free? Was not Lucifer free?
(613.5) 54:1.3 Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled. True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity, and divine obligations.
(613.6) 54:1.4 Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships.
(613.7) 54:1.5 Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage.
(614.4) 54:1.9 How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality!
(614.8) 54:2.3 Lucifer’s folly was the attempt to do the nondoable, to short-circuit time in an experiential universe. Lucifer’s crime was the attempted creative disenfranchisement of every personality in Satania, the unrecognized abridgment of the creature’s personal participation — freewill participation — in the long evolutionary struggle to attain the status of light and life both individually and collectively. In so doing this onetime Sovereign of your system set the temporal purpose of his own will directly athwart the eternal purpose of God’s will as it is revealed in the bestowal of free will upon all personal creatures. The Lucifer rebellion thus threatened the maximum possible infringement of the freewill choice of the ascenders and servers of the system of Satania — a threat forevermore to deprive every one of these beings of the thrilling experience of contributing something personal and unique to the slowly erecting monument to experiential wisdom which will sometime exist as the perfected system of Satania. Thus does the Lucifer manifesto, masquerading in the habiliments of liberty, stand forth in the clear light of reason as a monumental threat to consummate the theft of personal liberty and to do it on a scale that has been approached only twice in all the history of Nebadon.
What are you proposing by your question?
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Please describe those elements of the Manifesto which you deem worthy of incorporation in Nebadon’s administration. What does “greater freedom” mean? Greater than what? And to what end? False liberty cannot be made into True liberty. So, no, I don’t think there is such a thing as “greater” freedom than the great freedom we enjoy as children of God with his divine gift of free will. Are we not free? Was not Lucifer free?
When will you believe me when I say that I have NO OPINION on the Manifesto of Lucifer one way or another?!
Quoting paper Paper 54 is of no use to a discussion among us. This paper is the opinion of this particular Mighty Messenger. Opinion counts for nothing when there is a matter for the courts. Justice should be blind as to opinion.
What then are these or this “greater freedom” you ask about? What do you mean?
As to the “opinions” of the author, we are offered this:
2. The Mighty Messengers
(245.1) 22:2.1 Mighty Messengers belong to the ascendant group of the Trinitized Sons. They are a class of perfected mortals who have been rebellion tested or otherwise equally proved as to their personal loyalty; all have passed through some definite test of universe allegiance. At some time in their Paradise ascent they stood firm and loyal in the face of the disloyalty of their superiors, and some did actively and loyally function in the places of such unfaithful leaders.
(245.2) 22:2.2 With such personal records of fidelity and devotion, these ascending mortals pass on through Havona with the stream of the pilgrims of time, attain Paradise, graduate therefrom, and are mustered into the Corps of the Finality. Thereupon they are trinitized in the secret embrace of the Paradise Trinity and subsequently are commissioned to become associated with the Ancients of Days in the administration of the governments of the seven superuniverses.
(245.8) 22:2.8 In the superuniverse courts, Mighty Messengers act as defenders of both individuals and planets when they come up for adjudication; they also assist the Perfections of Days in the direction of the affairs of the major sectors. As a group, their chief assignment is that of superuniverse observers. They are stationed on the various headquarters worlds and on individual planets of importance as the official observers of the Ancients of Days. When so assigned, they also serve as advisers to the authorities directing the affairs of the spheres of their sojourn. The Messengers take active part in all phases of the ascendant scheme of mortal progression. With their associates of mortal origin they keep the supergovernments in close and personal touch with the status and progression of the plans of the descending Sons of God.
Me here: They are Trinity embraced finaliters whose experience and wisdom includes seeing God and training in Paradise for service to all other ascenders, not only in time and space but including all of us in time and space.
Are you suggesting that the accuracy of some authors and Papers is greater than for others? And that Mighty Messengers are a lesser source of fact or record? How so? By what measurement I wonder?
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Bradly wrote:False liberty cannot be made into True liberty.
21:5.7 The elevation of a sevenfold bestowal Son to the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe means the beginning of the end of agelong uncertainty and relative confusion. Subsequent to this event, that which cannot be sometime spiritualized will eventually be disorganized; that which cannot be sometime co-ordinated with cosmic reality will eventually be destroyed. When the provisions of endless mercy and nameless patience have been exhausted in an effort to win the loyalty and devotion of the will creatures of the realms, justice and righteousness will prevail. That which mercy cannot rehabilitate justice will eventually annihilate.
Lucifer’s minions delight in creating confusion, chaos, disorganization and disharmony. That is what happens with false liberty.
And here’s a little warning from the Master to those who sow seeds of doubt and fear, and cause another to stumble in their faith:
(1761.2) 158:8.1 …….Jesus, knowing what it was that occupied their thoughts that day, beckoned to one of Peter’s little ones and, setting the child down among them, said: “Verily, verily, I say to you, except you turn about and become more like this child, you will make little progress in the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever shall humble himself and become as this little one, the same shall become greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso receives such a little one receives me. And they who receive me receive also Him who sent me. If you would be first in the kingdom, seek to minister these good truths to your brethren in the flesh. But whosoever causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hanged about his neck and he were cast into the sea. If the things you do with your hands, or the things you see with your eyes give offense in the progress of the kingdom, sacrifice these cherished idols, for it is better to enter the kingdom minus many of the beloved things of life rather than to cling to these idols and find yourself shut out of the kingdom. But most of all, see that you despise not one of these little ones, for their angels do always behold the faces of the heavenly hosts.”
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
(1121.5) 102:3.3 Material feelings, human emotions, lead directly to material actions, selfish acts. Religious insights, spiritual motivations, lead directly to religious actions, unselfish acts of social service and altruistic benevolence.
(506.6) 44:6.5 3. The emotion designers. These enhancers and conservators of feeling are those who preserve the sentiments of morontia and the emotions of divinity for the study and edification of the children of time and for the inspiration and beautification of morontia progressors and advancing spirits.
I have read much about seraphic emotions and I am familiar with the emotions of mortals that are either fear or love centered, but what are “emotions of divinity” I wonder? Not finding much. There is that about the joy of worship for example; hard for a mortal to imagine such splendor as described. To be without fear of any form is incomprehensible…..even if I do not suffer from endless or great fears myself, I am surrounded by those who do so and spend much effort simply helping reduce the fear in others. Fear cripples – indeed it creates a form of paralysis and seemingly endless cycles of bad judgment. I think the Master’s most difficult message was “Fear Not” in this world…..sadly and ironically, fear is the fulcrum which the christian priesthood has most leveraged in “conversion” and “salvation”.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Bradly wrote: . . . but what are “emotions of divinity”
Thank you Bonita. I was also wondering about the anger or righteous indignation displayed by the Master while he walked among us. Was that purely human I wonder? It is obvious that Jesus never felt angered by any personal abuse suffered by any hand but he was quite stirred up regarding the priests’ hold on people…..far more so it appears than he ever demonstrated any anger at the Roman conquerors and occupiers. His anger seemed only focused on those who used religious position and power to take advantage of truth seekers and believers. He also demonstrated frazzled patience by the endless inability of the apostles to discern their standing and to constantly strive for favor. I am curious as to your (and all others) take on this as well.
While I have complete confidence in those who work for our liberation from material fetters and in our source and destiny – I do wonder what emotions we take with soul and by morontia mind to come. As stated, I have no context for a reality that contains no fear nor all that springs from fear. Jesus had no fear….so his anger had another source other than self. And there was no wrath or acting out this anger but he was mightily stirred by the grip of priests who were self serving and victimized their flock rather than serve love and God.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Are you suggesting that the accuracy of some authors and Papers is greater than for others? And that Mighty Messengers are a lesser source of fact or record? How so? By what measurement I wonder?
Not accuracy but bias as to their experiences. Mighty Messenger went through the trials and tribulations of rebellion and are tested but also scarred in some way. Ascenders always remember their careers and are affected by their experiences that contribute to their biases. This “type is black” is an opinion not a fact.
And there was no wrath or acting out this anger but he was mightily stirred by the grip of priests who were self serving and victimized their flock rather than serve love and God.
For the hypocrites and idolators Jesus had stern warnings, not anger or wrath.
By the way, once Nebadon is settled in light and life, there is a complete reorganization of the universe administration. But Gabriel remains in charge; our lovely Bright and Morning Star. (55:10.4; 55:10.10)
Why did Gabriel tell Mary and Elizabeth ahead of time that they carried children of destiny?
What did he hope to accomplish with giving these women foreknowledge of what was to come?
Can you think of any good that came of this message giving?
Can you think of any harm that may have come of this preview of coming attractions?
BTW, where has Michael been for the past 2000 years? A revelation essentially commissioned by Gabriel tells us nothing of Michael’s whereabouts. Michael could have written Part IV of TUB first hand, an autobiography, but did not. Why?
These questions deserve answers, don’t you think?
Bradly wrote:I was also wondering about the anger or righteous indignation displayed by the Master while he walked among us.
140:5.24 Fatherly love delights in returning good for evil — doing good in retaliation for injustice.
Why did Gabriel tell Mary and Elizabeth ahead of time that they carried children of destiny? What did he hope to accomplish with giving these women foreknowledge of what was to come? Can you think of any good that came of this message giving? Can you think of any harm that may have come of this preview of coming attractions?
Perhaps it was in recognition of the equality of these women in Michael’s Bestowal and to acknowledge their critical role in bringing it about.
Perhaps also to give them guidance and increased motivation (above even that which comes naturally to most pregnant women) to care for herself and her unborn child and not to take unnecessary risks with regard to the gestating period.
I cannot think of any harm that may have come from giving them the awareness in advance that the child they are carrying is of unprecedented import. I can only think of good that would come of it; a shared understanding of the respect and recognition of the female role in universe affairs (which is a lesson not only to them but to us as well); a gentle reminder to care for their pregnancy and themselves; and most likely many other positive outcomes of which we have no understanding while in our current mortal state.
TW, where has Michael been for the past 2000 years? A revelation essentially commissioned by Gabriel tells us nothing of Michael’s whereabouts. Michael could have written Part IV of TUB first hand, an autobiography, but did not. Why? These questions deserve answers, don’t you think?
You can find the answers in TUB. Paper 119, section 8, “Michael’s Post-Bestowal Status”.
(1318.5) 119:8.6 In the experience of descending from God to man, Michael was concomitantly experiencing the ascent from partiality of manifestability to supremacy of finite action and finality of the liberation of his potential for absonite function. Michael, a Creator Son, is a time-space creator, but Michael, a sevenfold Master Son, is a member of one of the divine corps constituting the Trinity Ultimate. (1318.6) 119:8.7 In passing through the experience of revealing the Seven Master Spirit wills of the Trinity, the Creator Son has passed through the experience of revealing the will of the Supreme. In functioning as a revelator of the will of Supremacy, Michael, together with all other Master Sons, has identified himself eternally with the Supreme. In this universe age he reveals the Supreme and participates in the actualization of the sovereignty of Supremacy. But in the next universe age we believe he will be collaborating with the Supreme Being in the first experiential Trinity for and in the universes of outer space.
Me, here. Clearly, Michael is too busy to write his autobiography.
(1346.2) 122:2.7 John was born in the City of Judah, March 25, 7 B.C. Zacharias and Elizabeth rejoiced greatly in the realization that a son had come to them as Gabriel had promised, and when on the eighth day they presented the child for circumcision, they formally christened him John, as they had been directed aforetime. Already had a nephew of Zacharias departed for Nazareth, carrying the message of Elizabeth to Mary proclaiming that a son had been born to her and that his name was to be John.
(1346.3) 122:2.8 From his earliest infancy John was judiciously impressed by his parents with the idea that he was to grow up to become a spiritual leader and religious teacher. And the soil of John’s heart was ever responsive to the sowing of such suggestive seeds. Even as a child he was found frequently at the temple during the seasons of his father’s service, and he was tremendously impressed with the significance of all that he saw.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
(1317.5) 119:8.1 After Michael’s final and successful bestowal on Urantia he was not only accepted by the Ancients of Days as sovereign ruler of Nebadon, but he was also recognized by the Universal Father as the established director of the local universe of his own creation. Upon his return to Salvington this Michael, the Son of Man and the Son of God, was proclaimed the settled ruler of Nebadon. From Uversa came the eighth proclamation of Michael’s sovereignty, while from Paradise came the joint pronouncement of the Universal Father and the Eternal Son constituting this union of God and man sole head of the universe and directing the Union of Days stationed on Salvington to signify his intention of withdrawing to Paradise. The Faithfuls of Days on the constellation headquarters were also instructed to retire from the councils of the Most Highs. But Michael would not consent to the withdrawal of the Trinity Sons of counsel and co-operation. He assembled them on Salvington and personally requested them forever to remain on duty in Nebadon. They signified their desire to comply with this request to their directors on Paradise, and shortly thereafter there were issued those mandates of Paradise divorcement which forever attached these Sons of the central universe to the court of Michael of Nebadon.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Keep in mind, also, that Elizabeth and Mary were far from the only people to be given advance notice.
(1317.2) 119:7.6 Certain wise men of earth knew of Michael’s impending arrival. Through the contacts of one world with another, these wise men of spiritual insight learned of the forthcoming bestowal of Michael on Urantia. And the seraphim did, through the midway creatures, make announcement to a group of Chaldean priests whose leader was Ardnon. These men of God visited the newborn child in the manger. The only supernatural event associated with the birth of Jesus was this announcement to Ardnon and his associates by the seraphim of former attachment to Adam and Eve in the first garden.*
