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The Bright and Morning Star

158 posts · 10 participants · started Jan 28, 2015, 1:46 PM

MaraParticipant
Jan 29, 2015, 8:51 PM

emanny3003 wrote: In what order would God place us in personality status as compared to Gabriel? I would suggest to you that I have equal standing in personality status according to God. He is no respecter of persons. Gabriel’s personality stands no higher than mine or yours.

Gabriel 33:4:6 is “. . . the combined chief executive of both the super- and the local universe rulers.” He is 38:6:2 “. . . the ‘supreme commander of the armies of heaven,’ the chief executive of the Sovereign of Nebadon, ‘the Lord God of hosts.'” It’s an Old Testament reference – Lord God of hosts – cause it’s in quotation marks.

But I’m getting a glimpse of your thesis emmany from other things you’ve said on other topics. I’m not going to second guess you or debate you about a name. It seems to me you want to compare Gabriel to us in terms of personality and based on the statement God is no respecter of persons. I think this refers to man and angels and others even up to and including the Lanonandek Sons. In the hierarchy of created beings in our universe, do you know if a Vorondadek Son has ever been found in contempt of universe government or gone into rebellion?

Gabriel has his assignments. We have ours. We are on the lowest rung of the ladder and will not own our personality until we fuse. We are not equal and there is no comparison. Humans and the Bright and Morning Stars are completely different orders of being. Completely different.
emanny3003Blocked
Jan 29, 2015, 8:55 PM

Bonita wrote:

2:3.5 In any universe contest between actual levels of reality, the personality of the higher level will ultimately triumph over the personality of the lower level. This inevitable outcome of universe controversy is inherent in the fact that divinity of quality equals the degree of reality or actuality of any will creature. Undiluted evil, complete error, willful sin, and unmitigated iniquity are inherently and automatically suicidal. Such attitudes of cosmic unreality can survive in the universe only because of transient mercy-tolerance pending the action of the justice-determining and fairness-finding mechanisms of the universe tribunals of righteous adjudication.

Gabriel is the ideal of divinity in our universe. Looks to me like he has a very high degree of REALNESS and therefore is someone worthy of a massive amount of respect. And it also looks to me like he’s the guy who is going to ultimately triumph, that is, if you go by what’s written in 2:3.5.

32:2.6 . . . the Bright and Morning Star, the personification of this initial creative concept of identity and ideal of divinity.

Gabriel is created as the “ideal” of divinity yet this does not mean that he is that in actuality.

32:2.6 Presently, the physical plan of a universe is completed, and the Creator Son, in association with the Creative Spirit, projects his plan of life creation; whereupon does this representation of the Infinite Spirit begin her universe function as a distinct creative personality. When this first creative act is formulated and executed, there springs into being the Bright and Morning Star, the personification of this initial creative concept of identity and ideal of divinity. This is the chief executive of the universe, the personal associate of the Creator Son, one like him in all aspects of character, though markedly limited in the attributes of divinity.

Gabriel cannot be the “actual” ideal of divinity if he is markedly limited in the attributes of divinity. He can only be ideal in potential but not in reality as a creative concept of identity.

Gabriel is worthy of massive respect as we are worthy as well. We are of potential Finaliter status on Paradise.

Bonita wrote:

And it also looks to me like he’s the guy who is going to ultimately triumph, that is, if you go by what’s written in 2:3.5.

And who will Gabriel triumph against? Will he take prisoners or kill the vanquished? Gabriel went to war against his enemies. Did he love his enemies as Michael would have him do? Do you kill the ones you love or the ones you hate? Would you do the killing yourself or pass the buck to higher ups? This would certainly wash your hands of the deed. And once Gabriel has rid the Universe of his enemies and they are no longer in their places, will he remember them as a brother or as a hated enemy? Will he remember them at all?
BonitaParticipant
Jan 30, 2015, 1:39 PM

Mara wrote: Humans and the Bright and Morning Stars are completely different orders of being. Completely different.

That’s exactly right. We are meant to become ascending Sons while the Bright and Morning Stars are descending Sons. Ascending Sons are mortal, descending Sons are immortal. Ascending Sons must evolve whereas descending Sons are divinely created.
emanny3003Blocked
Jan 30, 2015, 2:24 PM

Bonita wrote:

Mara wrote: Humans and the Bright and Morning Stars are completely different orders of being. Completely different.
That’s exactly right. We are meant to become ascending Sons while the Bright and Morning Stars are descending Sons. Ascending Sons are mortal, descending Sons are immortal. Ascending Sons must evolve whereas descending Sons are divinely created.

Completely different is what you both say. Well, are we as humans the children of a lesser god?
BonitaParticipant
Jan 30, 2015, 4:46 PM
The Father Melchizedek is Gabriel’s first assistant who assumes authority when Gabriel is absent. Gabriel occupies himself with universe policies and presides over the tribunals and councils of Nebadon, while Father Melchizedek is concerned with practical procedures and presides over emergency commissions and advisory bodies. Gabriel supervises the judicial system of Nebadon. These courts are primarily concerned with creation, evolution, maintenance and ministry. They do not deal with matters of life and death. Those cases are referred to the tribunals of the super universe. (33:6.2; 33:7.2; 35:1.2)
emanny3003Blocked
Jan 30, 2015, 6:05 PM

Bonita wrote:

The Father Melchizedek is Gabriel’s first assistant who assumes authority when Gabriel is absent. Gabriel occupies himself with universe policies and presides over the tribunals and councils of Nebadon, while Father Melchizedek is concerned with practical procedures and presides over emergency commissions and advisory bodies. Gabriel supervises the judicial system of Nebadon. These courts are primarily concerned with creation, evolution, maintenance and ministry. They do not deal with matters of life and death. Those cases are referred to the tribunals of the super universe. (33:6.2; 33:7.2; 35:1.2)

Yes. And what of it? A son is a son is a son is a son, by any other name.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 31, 2015, 4:38 PM
The Most Highs of each constellation are Vorondadek Sons, selected by Michael and commissioned by Gabriel. In other words, Gabriel gives them the authority to function in the universe. The Vorondadek Sons, or Constellation Fathers, are an order of Sons created below the Melchizedeks. These Constellation Fathers rarely commit errors and none have ever entered into rebellion. They are completely loyal which is one reason they can rule in the kingdom of men.

43:3.1 The rulers of the constellations are of the Vorondadek order of local universe sonship. When commissioned to active duty in the universe as constellation rulers or otherwise, these Sons are known as the Most Highs since they embody the highest administrative wisdom, coupled with the most farseeing and intelligent loyalty, of all the orders of the Local Universe Sons of God. Their personal integrity and their group loyalty have never been questioned; no disaffection of the Vorondadek Sons has ever occurred in Nebadon.
MaraParticipant
Jan 31, 2015, 5:18 PM

Bonita wrote:

These Constellation Fathers rarely commit errors and none have ever entered into rebellion. They are completely loyal which is one reason they can rule in the kingdom of men.

Yes. But not so with the Lanonandeks.

35:9:8 Of all the local universes in Orvonton, our universe has, with the exception of Henselon, lost the largest number of this order of Sons. On Uversa it is the consensus that we have had so much administrative trouble in Nebadon because our Sons of the Lanonandek order have been created with such a large degree of personal liberty in choosing and planning. I do not make this observation by way of criticism. The Creator of our universe has full authority and power to do this. It is the contention of our high rulers that, while such free-choosing Sons make excessive trouble in the earlier ages of the universe, when things are fully sifted and finally settled, the gains of higher loyalty and fuller volitional service on the part of these thoroughly tested Sons will far more than compensate for the confusion and tribulations of earlier times.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 31, 2015, 5:27 PM

Mara wrote:

Yes. But not so with the Lanonandeks.

The Life Carriers are an order of Sonship below the Lanonandeks and some of them also went into rebellion. It seems the cut-off point was the Lanonandek order of Sonship; every order below seemed to succumb, but I’m not entirely sure . . . need to read up.
MaraParticipant
Jan 31, 2015, 6:07 PM

Bonita wrote: The Life Carriers are an order of Sonship below the Lanonandeks and some of them also went into rebellion.

32:3:6 The farther down the scale of life we go, the more difficult it becomes to locate, with the eye of faith, the invisible Father. The lower creatures — and sometimes even the higher personalities — find it difficult always to envisage the Universal Father in his Creator Sons. And so, pending the time of their spiritual exaltation, when perfection of development will enable them to see God in person, they grow weary in progression, entertain spiritual doubts, stumble into confusion, and thus isolate themselves from the progressive spiritual aims of their time and universe. In this way they lose the ability to see the Father when beholding the Creator Son. The surest safeguard for the creature throughout the long struggle to attain the Father, during this time when inherent conditions make such attainment impossible, is tenaciously to hold on to the truth-fact of the Father’s presence in his Sons. Literally and figuratively, spiritually and personally, the Father and the Sons are one. It is a fact: He who has seen a Creator Son has seen the Father.

How bright is the Bright and Morning Star who is the first-born son of our Creator Son!
BonitaParticipant
Jan 31, 2015, 6:45 PM

Mara wrote:

How bright is the Bright and Morning Star who is the first-born son of our Creator Son!

Agreed. Amazingly bright. No wonder he has that name. Bright symbolizes his closeness to both the Creator Son and Spirit, while Morning symbolizes first born, the first to rise. And by bright I don’t mean just smart. I mean the radiance of his personality.

Interestingly, the latin name for Morning Star is the name the Church has given to Lucifer. The Hebrew word, הֵילֵל, which appears only once in the Old Testament (Isaiah 14:12), is roughly translated to mean “shining one, morning star”. How backwards and confused a notion!
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 1, 2015, 1:19 PM
53:8.4 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.

53:9.4Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabrielvs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations. when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.

53:9.9 [Presented by Manovandet Melchizedek, onetime attached to the receivership of Urantia.]

Sponsored by a Nebadon Corps of Local Universe Personalities acting by authority of Gabriel of Salvington.
BonitaParticipant
Feb 1, 2015, 3:05 PM
In the very beginning of our universe Gabriel worked alone with the Creative Son and Spirit. The worked as a threesome until the universe grew so large that Gabriel needed aides. That’s when the Brilliant Evening Stars were created. (37:1.10)
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 1, 2015, 7:46 PM

Bonita wrote:

In the very beginning of our universe Gabriel worked alone with the Creative Son and Spirit. The worked as a threesome until the universe grew so large that Gabriel needed aides. That’s when the Brilliant Evening Stars were created. (37:1.10)

And that was the beginning of Local Universe bureaucracy.
BonitaParticipant
Feb 2, 2015, 1:11 PM
The Brilliant Evening Stars are Gabriel’s liaison officers who represent him in the Salvington conclaves since Gabriel cannot be in two places at the same time (37:2.2). In this way Gabriel is just like his father, the Creative Son, who also cannot be simultaneously in two places at once (34:3.5). It is through the Brilliant Evening Stars that Gabriel maintains his contact with all phases of universe life (37:2.3).
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 2, 2015, 9:14 PM

Bonita wrote:

In this way Gabriel is just like his father, the Creative Son, who also cannot be simultaneously in two places at once (34:3.5).

Gabriel is UNLIKE his father, the Creative Son, in that he does NOT know of a father’s love.
MaraParticipant
Feb 3, 2015, 3:47 AM
Just imagine this:

122:3:1 One evening about sundown, before Joseph had returned home, Gabriel appeared to Mary by the side of a low stone table and, after she had recovered her composure, said: “I come at the bidding of one who is my Master and whom you shall love and nurture. To you, Mary, I bring glad tidings when I announce that the conception within you is ordained by heaven, and that in due time you will become the mother of a son; you shall call him Joshua, and he shall inaugurate the kingdom of heaven on earth and among men. Speak not of this matter save to Joseph and to Elizabeth, your kinswoman, to whom I have also appeared, and who shall presently also bear a son, whose name shall be John, and who will prepare the way for the message of deliverance which your son shall proclaim to men with great power and deep conviction. And doubt not my word, Mary, for this home has been chosen as the mortal habitat of the child of destiny. My benediction rests upon you, the power of the Most Highs will strengthen you, and the Lord of all the earth shall overshadow you.”
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 3, 2015, 11:26 AM
139:6.5 The apostles all loved and respected Nathaniel, and he got along with them splendidly, excepting Judas Iscariot. Judas did not think Nathaniel took his apostleship sufficiently seriously and once had the temerity to go secretly to Jesus and lodge complaint against him. Said Jesus: “Judas, watch carefully your steps; do not overmagnify your office. Who of us is competent to judge his brother? It is not the Father’s will that his children should partake only of the serious things of life. Let me repeat: I have come that my brethren in the flesh may have joy, gladness, and life more abundantly. Go then, Judas, and do well that which has been intrusted to you but leave Nathaniel, your brother, to give account of himself to God.” And the memory of this, with that of many similar experiences, long lived in the self-deceiving heart of Judas Iscariot.

Gabriel VS Lucifer

Gabriel, listen to the Master, your father, and do not overmagnify your office.
BonitaParticipant
Feb 3, 2015, 1:31 PM

Mara wrote:

Just imagine this:

It’s hard to imagine Mara. I would have gone screaming from the house, never to return. But it does illustrate the fact that Gabriel accompanied Michael on his incarnation. The Bright and Morning Star always accompanies a Creator Son on his bestowal. Whereas, when Avonal Sons incarnate, they are accompanied by one of the Brilliant Evening Stars (37:2.8). More evidence of Gabriel’s high standing in the universe.
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 3, 2015, 7:43 PM

Bonita wrote:

It’s hard to imagine Mara. I would have gone screaming from the house, never to return. But it does illustrate the fact that Gabriel accompanied Michael on his incarnation. The Bright and Morning Star always accompanies a Creator Son on his bestowal. Whereas, when Avonal Sons incarnate, they are accompanied by one of the Brilliant Evening Stars (37:2.8). More evidence of Gabriel’s high standing in the universe.

Gabriel not only accompanied the Creator Son on his final bestowal, he interfered with it. Why did Gabriel have to forewarn Mary and Elizabeth about the bestowal? Why did he interfere in such a way? To tell Mary that she carried a “child of destiny” was an augmentation of conflict between mother and child as to what Jesus was to do with his life. Messiah to the Jews? Miracle worker? Gabriel did Jesus no favor in this meddling. What were Gabriel’s motivations in informing Mary beforehand of anything about who Jesus was to be? It ultimately led to greater friction in the family which caused Jesus much pain and sorrow. What good could come of telling Mary of the impending birth of a God son? Thank you so much, Gabriel.

Gabriel well knew that Immanuel had instructed Michael on nine things to be accomplished in his final bestowal. The second was the termination of the Lucifer rebellion as the “Son of Man”. Was Gabriel worried that the rebels would all accept Jesus’ final offer of forgiveness? Did he want to interfere with this in any way? The eldest brother in the parable of the prodigal son was unhappy that the father forgave the younger erring child and was quite bitter about it. Bitterness and resentment are powerful motivating factors indeed. Gabriel not only accompanied Michael but it appears to have ‘set him up’ by putting this truth in Mary’s ear when Jesus was only a few cells old.

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