158 posts · 10 participants · started Jan 28, 2015, 1:46 PM
I was surprised to find that the archangels are not under Gabriel’s direct jurisdiction. And that is because they are not concerned with the administration of the local universe; they are concerned with creature survival (37:3.2). They are directed by the first-born of their order.
The seraphic hosts are commanded by an archangel and directed by a Brilliant Evening Star under the supreme command of Gabriel. So in a sense, Gabriel is still their Commander-in-Chief.
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I was surprised to find that the archangels are not under Gabriel’s direct jurisdiction. And that is because they are not concerned with the administration of the local universe; they are concerned with creature survival (37:3.2). They are directed by the first-born of their order. The seraphic hosts are commanded by an archangel and directed by a Brilliant Evening Star under the supreme command of Gabriel. So in a sense, Gabriel is still their Commander-in-Chief. .
Interesting.
The 24 Counselors on Jerusem, the home of the judgment seat, are Michael’s personal agents since his bestowal. They have the authority to represent Michael when it comes to the scheme of mortal ascension (45:4.1). Gabriel is not involved in this, but they do also act as agents for his special requests. One of those requests of Gabriel was to exempt the whole lot of them from the ascension scheme, at least temporarily. (45:4.19)
53:8.4 True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels,…
53:9.4 Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels.
Does anyone detect even a SMIDGEN of RESENTMENT of Gabriel for the rebels in these quotes?
Praying, destruction; plea, annihilation. Maybe it’s just crazy me. :)
Does anyone detect even a SMIDGEN of RESENTMENT of Gabriel . . . .
No. Resentment is a human emotion. It’s a bitter indignation at having been treated unfairly, as interpreted by the one who is resentful. It’s a feeling of deep and bitter anger and ill-will. Gabriel is the first-born Son of Micheal and his Daughter Spirit associate and he resides on Salvington. He’s Michael’s chief executive – a being of a completely different order than finite mortals.
All Planetary Princes in Nebadon are under the jurisdiction of Gabriel (50:2.1). Planetary Princes are secondary Lanonandek Sons, several orders of sonship below the Bright and Morning Star.
Mara wrote:No. Resentment is a human emotion.
No. Resentment is a human emotion. It’s a bitter indignation at having been treated unfairly, as interpreted by the one who is resentful. It’s a feeling of deep and bitter anger and ill-will. Gabriel is the first-born Son of Micheal and his Daughter Spirit associate and he resides on Salvington. He’s Michael’s chief executive – a being of a completely different order than finite mortals.
So you think that the celestials do not share any human emotions? Do you think they have any emotions at all? If so, what are they?
Does Christ Michael have any human emotions? Before you answer, remember that he is still Jesus and forever will be.
Mara wrote:No. Resentment is a human emotion.I agree Mara. It belongs to the lower adjutant level of thinking. Not even Lucifer experiences resentment.
Most bitterly did he attack the right of the Ancients of Days—”foreign potentates”—to interfere in the affairs of the local systems and universes. These rulers he denounced as tyrants and usurpers. He exhorted his followers to believe that none of these rulers could do aught to interfere with the operation of complete home rule if men and angels only had the courage to assert themselves and boldly claim their rights.
Lucifer bitterly attacked. Let me define the word BITTER; ‘angry, hurt, or resentful because of one’s bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment’.
Allow me to define ATTACK; ‘take aggressive action against with weapons or armed force, typically in battle or war’.
Give me a break people. Lucifer and Gabriel are the adversaries of the WAR IN HEAVEN. They BOTH hold these so called human emotions. Stop trying to confuse everyone here with your false assertions!
Mara wrote:No. Resentment is a human emotion.I agree Mara. It belongs to the lower adjutant level of thinking. Not even Lucifer experiences resentment.
Most bitterly did he (Lucifer) attack the right of the Ancients of Days—”foreign potentates”—to interfere in the affairs of the local systems and universes. These rulers he denounced as tyrants and usurpers. He exhorted his followers to believe that none of these rulers could do aught to interfere with the operation of complete home rule if men and angels only had the courage to assert themselves and boldly claim their rights. (53:3.1)
Lucifer bitterly attacked. Let me define the word BITTER; ‘angry, hurt, or resentful because of one’s bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment’.
Allow me to define ATTACK; ‘take aggressive action against with weapons or armed force, typically in battle or war’.
Give me a break people!
Lucifer and Gabriel are the adversaries of the WAR IN HEAVEN. They BOTH hold these so called human emotions.
Stop trying to confuse everyone here with your false assertions!
emanny3003 wrote: Stop trying to confuse everyone
66:8:2 It should be noted that both Lucifer and Caligastia had been patiently instructed and lovingly warned respecting their critical tendencies and the subtle development of their pride of self and its associated exaggeration of the feeling of self-importance. But all of these attempts to help had been misconstrued as unwarranted criticism and as unjustified interference with personal liberties. Both Caligastia and Lucifer judged their friendly advisers as being actuated by the very reprehensible motives which were beginning to dominate their own distorted thinking and misguided planning. They judged their unselfish advisers by their own evolving selfishness.
53:1:3 Lucifer is now the fallen and deposed Sovereign of Satania. Self-contemplation is most disastrous, even to the exalted personalities of the celestial world. Of Lucifer it was said: “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your brightness.” Your olden prophet saw his sad estate when he wrote: “How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds!”
54:2:3 Lucifer’s folly was the attempt to do the nondoable, to short-circuit time in an experiential universe. Lucifer’s crime was the attempted creative disenfranchisement of every personality in Satania, the unrecognized abridgment of the creature’s personal participation — freewill participation — in the long evolutionary struggle to attain the status of light and life both individually and collectively. In so doing this onetime Sovereign of your system set the temporal purpose of his own will directly athwart the eternal purpose of God’s will as it is revealed in the bestowal of free will upon all personal creatures. The Lucifer rebellion thus threatened the maximum possible infringement of the freewill choice of the ascenders and servers of the system of Satania — a threat forevermore to deprive every one of these beings of the thrilling experience of contributing something personal and unique to the slowly erecting monument to experiential wisdom which will sometime exist as the perfected system of Satania. Thus does the Lucifer manifesto, masquerading in the habiliments of liberty, stand forth in the clear light of reason as a monumental threat to consummate the theft of personal liberty and to do it on a scale that has been approached only twice in all the history of Nebadon
120:3:11 “In your stead I now reign. I assume jurisdiction of all Nebadon as acting sovereign during the interim of your seventh and mortal bestowal on Urantia. And to you, Gabriel, I commit the safekeeping of the Son of Man about-to-be until he shall presently and in power and glory be returned to me as the Son of Man and the Son of God. And, Gabriel, I am your sovereign until Michael thus returns.”
Despite the belittling attitude, a most excellent topic for consideration but nearly all the quotes on “emotions” or “emotional” do deal with human emotions. However, here’s a few for our reflection:
(1243.2) 113:2.5 The angels develop an abiding affection for their human associates; and you would, if you could only visualize the seraphim, develop a warm affection for them. Divested of material bodies, given spirit forms, you would be very near the angels in many attributes of personality. They share most of your emotions and experience some additional ones. The only emotion actuating you which is somewhat difficult for them to comprehend is the legacy of animal fear that bulks so large in the mental life of the average inhabitant of Urantia. The angels really find it hard to understand why you will so persistently allow your higher intellectual powers, even your religious faith, to be so dominated by fear, so thoroughly demoralized by the thoughtless panic of dread and anxiety.
(1246.1) 113:5.2 Angels are so near you and care so feelingly for you that they figuratively “weep because of your willful intolerance and stubbornness.” Seraphim do not shed physical tears; they do not have physical bodies; neither do they possess wings. But they do have spiritual emotions, and they do experience feelings and sentiments of a spiritual nature which are in certain ways comparable to human emotions.
(304.4) 27:7.6 There are appointed times and places for worship on Paradise, but these are not adequate to accommodate the ever-increasing overflow of the spiritual emotions of the growing intelligence and expanding divinity recognition of the brilliant beings of experiential ascension to the eternal Isle. Never since the times of Grandfanda have the supernaphim been able fully to accommodate the spirit of worship on Paradise. Always is there an excess of worshipfulness as gauged by the preparation therefor. And this is because personalities of inherent perfection never can fully appreciate the tremendous reactions of the spiritual emotions of beings who have slowly and laboriously made their way upward to Paradise glory from the depths of the spiritual darkness of the lower worlds of time and space. When such angels and mortals of time attain the presence of the Powers of Paradise, there occurs the expression of the accumulated emotions of the ages, a spectacle astounding to the angels of Paradise and productive of the supreme joy of divine satisfaction in the Paradise Deities.
(419.1) 38:2.1 Angels do not have material bodies, but they are definite and discrete beings; they are of spirit nature and origin. Though invisible to mortals, they perceive you as you are in the flesh without the aid of transformers or translators; they intellectually understand the mode of mortal life, and they share all of man’s nonsensuous emotions and sentiments. They appreciate and greatly enjoy your efforts in music, art, and real humor. They are fully cognizant of your moral struggles and spiritual difficulties. They love human beings, and only good can result from your efforts to understand and love them.
(419.2) 38:2.2 Though seraphim are very affectionate and sympathetic beings, they are not sex-emotion creatures.
(430.1) 39:2.5 2. The Voice of Mercy. Mercy is the keynote of seraphic service and angelic ministry. It is therefore fitting that there should be a corps of angels who, in a special manner, portray mercy. These seraphim are the real mercy ministers of the local universes. They are the inspired leaders who foster the higher impulses and holier emotions of men and angels.
(1121.5) 102:3.3 Material feelings, human emotions, lead directly to material actions, selfish acts. Religious insights, spiritual motivations, lead directly to religious actions, unselfish acts of social service and altruistic benevolence.
(506.6) 44:6.5 3. The emotion designers. These enhancers and conservators of feeling are those who preserve the sentiments of morontia and the emotions of divinity for the study and edification of the children of time and for the inspiration and beautification of morontia progressors and advancing spirits.
It’s all angelic until the last one.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
On the contrary. My aim is to offer clarity to your pronouncements.
And what exactly are my pronouncements that you add clarity to? You write that resentment is a human emotion. Bonita agreed with you.
Both of you are wrong.
They were lovingly warned of their critical tendencies.
At this level if you can love you can hate. Lucifer and Gabriel hate each other.
Despite the belittling attitude, a most excellent topic for consideration but nearly all the quotes on “emotions” or “emotional” do deal with human emotions. However, here’s a few for our reflection:
You are belittling with this line, and you are being hypocritical without realizing it. Stick to the discussion.
Most bitterly did he (Lucifer) attack the right of the Ancients of Days—”foreign potentates”—to interfere in the affairs of the local systems and universes. These rulers he denounced as tyrants and usurpers. He exhorted his followers to believe that none of these rulers could do aught to interfere with the operation of complete home rule if men and angels only had the courage to assert themselves and boldly claim their rights. (53:3.1)
53:5.6 “There was war in heaven; Michael’s commander and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer, Satan, and the apostate princes); and the dragon and his rebellious angels fought but prevailed not.” This “war in heaven” was not a physical battle as such a conflict might be conceived on Urantia. In the early days of the struggle Lucifer held forth continuously in the planetary amphitheater. Gabriel conducted an unceasing exposure of the rebel sophistries from his headquarters taken up near at hand. The various personalities present on the sphere who were in doubt as to their attitude would journey back and forth between these discussions until they arrived at a final decision.
You all are wrong or TUB is wrong, pick one. You DO NOT fight a war without the emotions of resentment, anger, hatred, and vengeance.
Bradly wrote: Despite the belittling attitude, a most excellent topic for consideration but nearly all the quotes on “emotions” or “emotional” do deal with human emotions. However, here’s a few for our reflection:
Do you mind if we talk about this on another thread? I’d like this thread to be about the Bright and Morning Star and not spiral out of control into a Lucifer Love-In.
That being said, this topic on emotions has been discussed before. Mortals are capable of both human and divine emotions. Divine emotions are Adjuster derived. They are called the fruits of the spirit. Descending Sons do not have Adjusters, but they have direct access to divinity and Deity. Their minds are of a high order; their personalities are of a high order. They are created to function at a very high level. We humans, by contrast, must evolve by choice, from the lowest to the highest. We choose our reactions, and emotions. Some people choose poorly. Some people cannot control their emotions and continuously choose to be disrespectful and disruptive. It’s hard to recognize anything resembling spiritual fruit when they show up and their presence results in chaos and disorder.
And that’s exactly what self-important, self-exalting, self-asserting people seem to love most. While doing this, they rob others of their liberties, by forcing their agenda, their ideas, and themselves on others. And that’s exactly what Lucifer did. But it wasn’t out of revenge or resentment. There was nothing human in what he did. It was love. Love of self. Love completely misplaced, misguided and misused. He loved himself so much, he tried to convince everyone else to love themselves as much as he loved himself. It has nothing to do with emotions at all, it has to do with insanity. That kind of love is not love at all. It’s a sickness, a cosmic mental disorder.
You hate it when you are wrong Bonita. What you are doing is what all people do when they found to be wrong, change the subject.
Have I robbed you of your liberty? If so, you need a better alarm system. If there is chaos and disorder in your mind because of me then your mind must be quite feeble and unprotected. My logic is common. My sense is common. If I knock you over with it, you must be off balance to start with.
And that’s exactly what Lucifer did. But it wasn’t out of revenge or resentment. There was nothing human in what he did. It was love. Love of self.
You cannot know anything of this because you are not in anyones mind and neither is any other person. We are TOLD that Lucifer was bitter in his attack. Gabriel was bitter in his counterpunches. Sorry if this destroys your idealized picture of the heavens.
You were caught off guard when you asked for the quote where Gabriel’s was pleading for the annihilation of the rebels.
This is hard to swallow but it is true if you still want to believe TUB. There is no escaping this quote. Any being that desires the annihilation of another being is quite angry, resentful and vengeful. This cannot be argued or mitigated
I do not takes sides in Gabriel vs lucifer no matter what any of you assert. It is apparent that all of you take the side of Gabriel. You are confident that you have backed the right horse and you all may very well be right. I will await the trial because I trust the Superuniverse AOD.
Mind you, Michael and Father have not taken sides in the matter of Gabriel vs Lucifer, else the case would be null and void.
Meanwhile I will endure your slings and arrows obliquely hurled in order to avoid the wrath of Moderator 2. These are only flesh wounds and of no significance. Perhaps shunning me would be more effective. Wait, you already conspired to do this but I keep coming back. I will not be ignored. :) I am a gnawing stitch in your side. I will not let anyone ignore their own hypocrisies when confronted. None of you are accustomed to such challenges. Lets see how you deal with them.
A lot of people have difficulty realizing that some phrases in the UB are meant metaphorically. For instance, a “bitter attack” describes the unpleasant experience (an acrid odor, like the stench from hell) resulting from someone displaying flagrant self-indulgence and arrogant self-assertion. A “war” is symbolic of the conflict caused by the chaos of a self-exalting cosmic lunatic.
A lot of people have difficulty realizing that some phrases in the UB are meant metaphorically. For instance, a “bitter attack” describes the unpleasant experience (an acrid odor, like the stench from hell) resulting from someone displaying flagrant self-indulgence and arrogant self-assertion. A “war” is symbolic of the conflict caused by the chaos of a self-exalting cosmic lunatic.
Humble pie is quite bitter when it hits a weak stomach. Disappointment is a bitter pill to swallow. Build your house out of straw and with the gentlest wind one finds oneself grasping at straws. An unpleasant experience does not even begin to describe the feeling when you realize that the straw house is built on quicksand. I mean all of this metaphorically, of course. Sad really, homelessness, that is.
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BB
Lucifer bitterly attacked. Let me define the word BITTER; ‘angry, hurt, or resentful because of one’s bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment’. Allow me to define ATTACK; ‘take aggressive action against with weapons or armed force, typically in battle or war’. Give me a break people. Lucifer and Gabriel are the adversaries of the WAR IN HEAVEN. They BOTH hold these so called human emotions. Stop trying to confuse everyone here with your false assertions!
Me here: rather than metaphor, perhaps it is only a matter of WHICH optional definition is applied to a word that is used? The “war” was a 7 year “discussion” and debate about realities and loyalties in which all participants moved freely between opposing presentations, yes? A war of words and ideas and ideals….but war is the word used to describe it…but no tanks, rifles, trenches, or gas and yet the word chosen has multiple definitions. As do “bitterly” and “attack” as shown below:
Thesaurus
bitterly
bitterly
adverb
Definition of BITTERLY
with feelings of bitterness or grief
Synonyms agonizingly, bitterly, dolefully, dolorously, grievously, hardly, inconsolably, lugubriously, mournfully, painfully, plaintively, regretfully, resentfully, ruefully, sadly, sorely, sorrowfully, unhappily, wailfully, woefully, wretchedly
Related Words abjectly, cheerlessly, crestfallenly, dejectedly, despairingly, despondently, disconsolately, dispiritedly, downheartedly, low-spiritedly; blackly, darkly, dismally, distressfully, distressingly, dourly, drearily, forlornly, gloomily, glumly, joylessly, mirthlessly, miserably, morosely, pessimistically, somberly, sullenly; acutely, harshly, keenly, piercingly, poignantly, severely, sharply; cruelly, hurtfully, ill, rancorously
Near Antonyms cheerfully, cheerily, delightedly, gaily (also gayly), gleefully, good-naturedly, lightheartedly, merrily, mirthfully, rejoicingly, sunnily; blithely, blithesomely, calmly, casually, dispassionately, easily, impassively, indifferently, lightly, nonchalantly, stoically, unconcernedly; favorably, well
Antonyms blissfully, gladly, happily, joyfully, joyously
Attack – verb (used with object)
1.
to set upon in a forceful, violent, hostile, or aggressive way, with or without a weapon; begin fighting with:
He attacked him with his bare hands.
2.
to begin hostilities against; start an offensive against:
to attack the enemy.
3.
to blame or abuse violently or bitterly.
4.
to direct unfavorable criticism against; criticize severely; argue with strongly:
He attacked his opponent’s statement.
5.
to try to destroy, especially with verbal abuse:
to attack the mayor’s reputation.
6.
to set about (a task) or go to work on (a thing) vigorously:
to attack housecleaning; to attack the hamburger hungrily.
7.
(of disease, destructive agencies, etc.) to begin to affect.
verb (used without object)
8.
to make an attack; begin hostilities.
noun
9.
the act of attacking; onslaught; assault.
10.
a military offensive against an enemy or enemy position.
11.
Pathology. seizure by disease or illness:
an attack of indigestion.
12.
the beginning or initiating of any action; onset.
13.
an aggressive move in a performance or contest.
14.
the approach or manner of approach in beginning a musical phrase.
Perhaps the “literal” meaning is that Lucifer “rancorously” “whistled” Dixie? Just as literal as a vicious military assault, no? Multiple definitions applications are situational and context sensitive…and they are not metaphorical in this way where one thing is said but another thing is meant. Not the same at all. This does not mean that there are no patterns provided which demonstrate deeper connections than a literal reading might imply, but the narrative provided is claimed to be as accurate and clear as possible to eliminate error and reduce confusion. A metaphorical approach to the text belies and belittles the claims of the authors. Is it not enough that the difficulties of clarity stated in the text were obstacle enough? If metaphor, then we need some priests right away to explain these words and find the keys of understanding in the book of hidden, half, and un-truths? Bizzaro land. Down the rabbit hole we go.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
It was an emergency council of glorified mortals who counseled Gabriel to allow the rebellion to go its full force in order to diminish the number of beings lost to its sophistry (54:5.12). Gabriel took their advice. It was Michael who petitioned the Ancients of Days to put them all in prison (53:9.3). And thankfully they did. Gabriel looks forward to the opening of the system circuits and a return of Nebadon to normal relationships with the superuniverse, which will not happen until their annihilation. Meanwhile we wait in isolation, all of us, an imposed prison caused by someone else’s sin. But, within every sin is concealed the seeds of its own destruction. The hastening of that destruction is something we all desire most ardently. It’s group justice.
