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Who Knows "The Truth"? What is Truth? Where is Truth Found?

203 posts · 11 participants · started Mar 27, 2016, 11:58 AM

AngelaParticipant
Apr 16, 2016, 12:32 PM

Rick Warren wrote:

Is God’s truth the same as Michael’s bestowed Spirit of Truth? Do they at some point combine, and later culminate in the Supreme Being, that living repository of all time/space value experience? If truth is a person, can we, as a planet, eventually feel, even return, truth’s full embrace?

I think we have to distinguish between the personalities of the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit. God’s truth is not the person of the Spirit of Truth. Paradoxically they do “liaison”. But personalities do not “combine”. Also experiences are distinguishable from the truth which inspires them.

Your next question is really rather interesting. Truth isn’t “felt”. Can we embrace the Spirit of Truth? — To what extent is the Spirit of Truth manifested in the material world? Even the Spirit of truth could probably do with a good hug once in a millennium.

Secondly, we are not capable of a “full” embrace given our limited/finite intellect. But yes, I think the relationship lends itself to affectionate embrace, even if only in the mind-consciousness sense. Finally, confusion rather disqualifies us from embracing truth en masse.

Enjoyed this immensely — more mind riddles please.

^56:10.13 ^(647.4) The recognition of true relations implies a mind competent to discriminate between truth and error. The bestowal Spirit of Truth which invests the human minds of Urantia is unerringly responsive to truth—the living spirit relationship of all things and all beings as they are co-ordinated in the eternal ascent Godward.

^34:5.4 ^(379.4) The Spirit of Truth works as one with the presence of the spirit of the Divine Minister. This dual spirit liaison hovers over the worlds, seeking to teach truth and to spiritually enlighten the minds of men, to inspire the souls of the creatures of the ascending races, and to lead the peoples dwelling on the evolutionary planets ever towards their Paradise goal of divine destiny.

The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
BonitaParticipant
Apr 16, 2016, 1:10 PM

Rick Warren wrote: It begs the questions: Is God’s truth the same as Michael’s bestowed Spirit of Truth?

Why wouldn’t they be?

194:3.1 The Spirit of Truth is concerned primarily with the revelation of the Father’s spirit nature and the Son’s moral character.
BonitaParticipant
Apr 16, 2016, 1:34 PM

Angela wrote: Your next question is really rather interesting. Truth isn’t “felt”. Can we embrace the Spirit of Truth? — To what extent is the Spirit of Truth manifested in the material world? Even the Spirit of truth could probably do with a good hug once in a millennium.

More than once a millennium, like every day, several times a day, anytime you want. Actually, you don’t really embrace the Spirit of Truth, you embrace Michael (Jesus if you prefer). The Spirit of Truth creates a consciousness of the presence of Michael in your soul. You can fellowship all you like with Michael, embrace him too if you want. It’s a real thrill by the way.

194:2.4 Do not make the mistake of expecting to become strongly intellectually conscious of the outpoured Spirit of Truth. The spirit never creates a consciousness of himself, only a consciousness of Michael, the Son. From the beginning Jesus taught that the spirit would not speak of himself. The proof, therefore, of your fellowship with the Spirit of Truth is not to be found in your consciousness of this spirit but rather in your experience of enhanced fellowship with Michael.

And I disagree that truth isn’t felt, or sensed. Truth is an experience on the soul level, not the material mind level. Unless you’ve reached a high level of soul consciousness, I doubt you can do anything other than sense the presence of truth as an experience. That’s why they say knowledge is a demonstrable possession of the mind and truth is experience of the soul. Truth is not an intellectual event, it’s really a pre-morontia event, when you boil it down, and the morontia level can only be felt or sensed through spiritual insight and spiritual senses. Although, first circlers do get a superimposition of some level of morontia mind upon the adjutant mind that might allow for more than just a sense, maybe a conscious understanding of some kind. Not sure because I’m nowhere near there and can only surmise by what’s written:

112:6.9 The soul of survival value faithfully reflects both the qualitative and the quantitative actions and motivations of the material intellect, the former seat of the identity of selfhood. In the choosing of truth, beauty, and goodness, the mortal mind enters upon its premorontia universe career under the tutelage of the seven adjutant mind-spirits unified under the direction of the spirit of wisdom. Subsequently, upon the completion of the seven circles of premorontia attainment, the superimposition of the endowment of morontia mind upon adjutant mind initiates the prespiritual or morontia career of local universe progression.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 17, 2016, 10:17 AM

Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote: It begs the questions: Is God’s truth the same as Michael’s bestowed Spirit of Truth?

Why wouldn’t they be?

194:3.1 The Spirit of Truth is concerned primarily with the revelation of the Father’s spirit nature and the Son’s moral character.

Hmm…if they are the same, then there’s no need for different names. It suggests to me, God’s truth is somehow attenuated until Michael bestows the SofT. Maybe Michael is a truth enabler, he and his Mate, our ‘local’ father and mother.

Interesting to note “Father’s spiritual nature” (from your quote above) is often described using the words truth, beauty and goodness. Love gets in on this one:

…By the nature of God, especially by his infinite love, by truth, beauty, and goodness…. (48.3) 3:2.11

.

So, is truth love? Is love truth? God is truth. God is love. God has to be both, and so much more we are told. And we are also told the Spirit of Truth moves us to love:

.

…the Spirit of Truth, who directs the loving contact of one human being with another…. (1950:6) 180:5.11

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Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Apr 17, 2016, 12:05 PM

Rick Warren wrote:  Hmm…if they are the same, then there’s no need for different names.

The Spirit of Truth is a dual spirit, the spirit of both the Son and the Father. For us creatures, they are one and the same. You cannot get to the Father but through the Son. The Spirit of Truth reveals the Father’s love and the Son’s mercy.

194:2.3 In a certain sense, this Spirit of Truth is the spirit of both the Universal Father and the Creator Son.

p2062:11 194:3.1 The chief mission of this outpoured spirit of the Father and the Son is to teach men about the truths of the Father’s love and the Son’s mercy. These are the truths of divinity which men can comprehend more fully than all the other divine traits of character. The Spirit of Truth is concerned primarily with the revelation of the Father’s spirit nature and the Son’s moral character. The Creator Son, in the flesh, revealed God to men; the Spirit of Truth, in the heart, reveals the Creator Son to men.

169:4.2 His teaching regarding the Father all centered in the declaration that he and the Father are one; that he who has seen the Son has seen the Father; that the Father, like the Son, knows all things; that only the Son really knows the Father, and he to whom the Son will reveal him; that he who knows the Son knows also the Father; and that the Father sent him into the world to reveal their combined natures and to show forth their conjoint work.

166:3.3 And the Son will never refuse entrance to any child of the universe who, by faith, seeks to find the Father through the Son.

7.7.4The Father comes down to you as a personality only through the divine Sons of the Eternal Son. And you attain the Father by this same living way; you ascend to the Father by the guidance of this group of divine Sons. And this remains true notwithstanding that your very personality is a direct bestowal of the Universal Father.

Rick Warren wrote: It suggests to me, God’s truth is somehow attenuated until Michael bestows the SofT. Maybe Michael is a truth enabler, he and his Mate, our ‘local’ father and mother.

I don’t think truth can be attenuated; it is inconcussible. I think what you mean is that, like love, the quantity of truth is different from the quality of truth. Quantity is limited by human capacity; quality is not. Quality is value. Quantity is meaning. The quality of love and truth do not change, but the receptive ability of each individual to recognize the meanings of values does. The Spirit of Truth assists each individual to reach the pinnacle of their capacity of reception; he is the soul’s philosopher who deciphers meanings and values and makes them comprehensible to the soul and actionable to the mind. He is the Father’s translator, the Word of God. When the love of God passes through the Son, it is with loving mercy that he makes it real and tangible to his creatures.

10:3.3 The divine Sons are indeed the “Word of God,” but the children of the Spirit are truly the “Act of God.” God speaks through the Son and, with the Son, acts through the Infinite Spirit, while in all universe activities the Son and the Spirit are exquisitely fraternal, working as two equal brothers with admiration and love for an honored and divinely respected common Father.

Rick Warren wrote: So, is truth love? Is love truth? God is truth. God is love. God has to be both, and so much more we are told. And we are also told the Spirit of Truth moves us to love:

Love is a relationship, the greatest relationship in existence and truth is its proclamation, its living assertion in reality. Love is a relationship and truth, the Spirit of Truth, is a revelation of that relationship. Truth is always a revelation. Divine love is manifested to us by a growing recognition of and choice for truth, beauty and goodness.

  p1615:5  143:6.4 And again and again he impressed upon them that love is the greatest relationship in the world—in the universe—just as truth is the greatest pronouncement of the observation of these divine relationships.

1:4.5 The God of universal love unfailingly manifests himself to every one of his creatures up to the fullness of that creature’s capacity to spiritually grasp the qualities of divine truth, beauty, and goodness.

110:3.7 Choosing to respond to divine leading; sincerely basing the human life on the highest consciousness of truth, beauty, and goodness, and then co-ordinating these qualities of divinity through wisdom, worship, faith, and love.

2:6.5 Truth exhibits God as a revealer, as a teacher. But love gives and craves affection, seeks understanding fellowship such as exists between parent and child. Righteousness may be the divine thought, but love is a father’s attitude.

196:3.29 But love, divested of truth, beauty, and goodness, is only a sentiment, a philosophic distortion, a psychic illusion, a spiritual deception.

143:1.4  Truth is a liberating revelation, but love is the supreme relationship.

56:10.20 To finite man truth, beauty, and goodness embrace the full revelation of divinity reality. As this love-comprehension of Deity finds spiritual expression in the lives of God-knowing mortals, there are yielded the fruits of divinity: intellectual peace, social progress, moral satisfaction, spiritual joy, and cosmic wisdom. The advanced mortals on a world in the seventh stage of light and life have learned that love is the greatest thing in the universe — and they know that God is love.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 18, 2016, 11:12 AM

Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote: Hmm…if they are the same, then there’s no need for different names.

The Spirit of Truth is a dual spirit, the spirit of both the Son and the Father. For us creatures, they are one and the same. You cannot get to the Father but through the Son. The Spirit of Truth reveals the Father’s love and the Son’s mercy.

194:2.3 In a certain sense, this Spirit of Truth is the spirit of both the Universal Father and the Creator Son. p2062:11 194:3.1 The chief mission of this outpoured spirit of the Father and the Son is to teach men about the truths of the Father’s love and the Son’s mercy. These are the truths of divinity which men can comprehend more fully than all the other divine traits of character. The Spirit of Truth is concerned primarily with the revelation of the Father’s spirit nature and the Son’s moral character. The Creator Son, in the flesh, revealed God to men; the Spirit of Truth, in the heart, reveals the Creator Son to men. 169:4.2 His teaching regarding the Father all centered in the declaration that he and the Father are one; that he who has seen the Son has seen the Father; that the Father, like the Son, knows all things; that only the Son really knows the Father, and he to whom the Son will reveal him; that he who knows the Son knows also the Father; and that the Father sent him into the world to reveal their combined natures and to show forth their conjoint work. 166:3.3 And the Son will never refuse entrance to any child of the universe who, by faith, seeks to find the Father through the Son. 7.7.4The Father comes down to you as a personality only through the divine Sons of the Eternal Son. And you attain the Father by this same living way; you ascend to the Father by the guidance of this group of divine Sons. And this remains true notwithstanding that your very personality is a direct bestowal of the Universal Father.

Rick Warren wrote: It suggests to me, God’s truth is somehow attenuated until Michael bestows the SofT. Maybe Michael is a truth enabler, he and his Mate, our ‘local’ father and mother.

I don’t think truth can be attenuated; it is inconcussible. I think what you mean is that, like love, the quantity of truth is different from the quality of truth. Quantity is limited by human capacity; quality is not. Quality is value. Quantity is meaning. The quality of love and truth do not change, but the receptive ability of each individual to recognize the meanings of values does. The Spirit of Truth assists each individual to reach the pinnacle of their capacity of reception; he is the soul’s philosopher who deciphers meanings and values and makes them comprehensible to the soul and actionable to the mind. He is the Father’s translator, the Word of God. When the love of God passes through the Son, it is with loving mercy that he makes it real and tangible to his creatures.

10:3.3 The divine Sons are indeed the “Word of God,” but the children of the Spirit are truly the “Act of God.” God speaks through the Son and, with the Son, acts through the Infinite Spirit, while in all universe activities the Son and the Spirit are exquisitely fraternal, working as two equal brothers with admiration and love for an honored and divinely respected common Father.

Rick Warren wrote: So, is truth love? Is love truth? God is truth. God is love. God has to be both, and so much more we are told. And we are also told the Spirit of Truth moves us to love:

Love is a relationship, the greatest relationship in existence and truth is its proclamation, its living assertion in reality. Love is a relationship and truth, the Spirit of Truth, is a revelation of that relationship. Truth is always a revelation. Divine love is manifested to us by a growing recognition of and choice for truth, beauty and goodness.

p1615:5 143:6.4 And again and again he impressed upon them that love is the greatest relationship in the world—in the universe—just as truth is the greatest pronouncement of the observation of these divine relationships. 1:4.5 The God of universal love unfailingly manifests himself to every one of his creatures up to the fullness of that creature’s capacity to spiritually grasp the qualities of divine truth, beauty, and goodness. 110:3.7 Choosing to respond to divine leading; sincerely basing the human life on the highest consciousness of truth, beauty, and goodness, and then co-ordinating these qualities of divinity through wisdom, worship, faith, and love. 2:6.5 Truth exhibits God as a revealer, as a teacher. But love gives and craves affection, seeks understanding fellowship such as exists between parent and child. Righteousness may be the divine thought, but love is a father’s attitude. 196:3.29 But love, divested of truth, beauty, and goodness, is only a sentiment, a philosophic distortion, a psychic illusion, a spiritual deception. 143:1.4 Truth is a liberating revelation, but love is the supreme relationship. 56:10.20 To finite man truth, beauty, and goodness embrace the full revelation of divinity reality. As this love-comprehension of Deity finds spiritual expression in the lives of God-knowing mortals, there are yielded the fruits of divinity: intellectual peace, social progress, moral satisfaction, spiritual joy, and cosmic wisdom. The advanced mortals on a world in the seventh stage of light and life have learned that love is the greatest thing in the universe — and they know that God is love.

Thank you Bonita, your clarity, and back up quotes, are inspiring and appreciated. You appear to have that “conviction of truth” that comes with the Spirit of Truth:

…The new teacher is the conviction of truth, the consciousness and assurance of true meanings on real spirit levels. And this new teacher is the spirit of living and growing truth, expanding, unfolding, and adaptative truth…. ^180:5.1 ^(1949.3)

The Spirit of Truth’s work is to lead us into greater spiritual realities and loving service. Following this lead causes us to reveal new beauties of living and teaching, to ourselves and others. As Bonita pointed out, when we teach and live truth, we immediately grow in understanding and capacity for even greater truths and more refined expressions of beauty and goodness. The Spirit of Truth multiplies our effectiveness as teachers and it augments our comprehension of the central message Jesus brought to Urantia–that God is everyone’s Father, that all are family. Said Jesus:

“…and they will follow after the Spirit of Truth which they see in your lives, to the finding of eternal salvation….” ^191:6.2 ^(2044.3)

Cosmic love always grows, adapts and changes, even on a world like ours where evil has taken root. We must choose love–truth, goodness and beauty–no matter what world we are on, no matter what circumstances we find. This is the ascender’s challenge. But this choice will not, cannot, be forced on us. When we do choose the Spirit of Truth as our guide, it becomes a light and comfort forever, but most especially when conflict and trouble comes. From this choice comes our growth in spiritual reality.

When the Spirit of Truth descended on Urantia on the Day of Pentecost the apostles knew it. Peter declared it and they all went to the temple at Jerusalem to spread the good news with new vigor and fearless conviction. Everyone since then has had access to the Spirit of Truth because it is never out-of-date. The Spirit of Truth is always more than sufficient to guide us through each new difficulty with certain conviction. And it was designed so each generation will be led to restate the saving truth of the gospel that declares God is our Ultimate Father.

The authors give new and greater meaning to the word conviction.

***

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Apr 18, 2016, 1:25 PM
Nicely written Rick. I think genuine religious experience creates conviction because it is the experience of having a relationship with reality. Truth is a spiritual level of reality. When the mind recognizes reality there is a solid response. Which reminds me of a discussion begun long, long ago and never finished, with someone named Nigel. Have you heard of him? Is he still alive? Does anyone know?
Nigel NunnParticipant
Apr 18, 2016, 6:51 PM
Hi Bonita – following along closely! Busy preparing for scientific symposium, June 2-5.

PS: great work with Soul thread

Nigel
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 19, 2016, 9:47 AM

Bonita wrote:

Nicely written Rick. I think genuine religious experience creates conviction because it is the experience of having a relationship with reality. Truth is a spiritual level of reality. When the mind recognizes reality there is a solid response. Which reminds me of a discussion begun long, long ago and never finished, with someone named Nigel. Have you heard of him? Is he still alive? Does anyone know?

Nigel Nunn wrote:

Hi Bonita – following along closely! Busy preparing for scientific symposium, June 2-5.

PS: great work with Soul thread

Nigel

He lives! We are comforted by yours and his life, faithful teachers and students of our new revelation, WHICH, several times mentions the Spirit of Truth is a real and present spiritual comforter. This is one place where we find differences between the two indwellers of our minds. In the Adjuster Papers, Melchizedek says straight out, the Adjuster is not in us to give comfort:

…It is not the mission of the Mystery Monitor to smooth your ruffled feelings or to minister to your injured pride; it is the preparation of your soul for the long ascending career that engages the attention and occupies the time of the Adjuster…. ^(1192.1) ^108:5.6

The SofT is here, at our center, to offer comfort, but under what circumstances?

…This bestowed Comforter is the spiritual force which ever draws all truth seekers towards Him who is the personification of truth in the local universe…. ^(377.9) ^34:4.5

But what exactly does the Comforter do? Sooth feelings? Minister to pride? Probably not.

Can comfort actually be felt within? How? When? Have you experienced this?

.

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Apr 19, 2016, 12:38 PM

Rick Warren wrote:

Can comfort actually be felt within? How? When? Have you experienced this?

Oh for sure! Many times daily. I inherited some of my mother’s anxieties, which I intellectually know are a waste of time, but they creep in from time to time. Every time they do, I hand them over, yell “help!” and feel immediate comfort, a genuine release of fear, a sense of security and a little bit of whimsy, meaning: don’t take yourself so seriously, this is not a worthwhile activity, there are answers to every problem, and you know where to find them. It always calms me down knowing that I am being looked after and that the universe is a positive and friendly place, that effort applied in the right way will definitely pay off. It hits home every time.

It’s what I call my personality assurance . . . I know I’m gonna make it and there’s hope everyone else will too. It’s about confidence, courage and strength, no second guessing because I know with certainty the direction I’m supposed to go. For me, it’s the direction pointing that helps the most. It’s like the coach saying, “keep your eyes on the ball, it’s over here.” It takes the burden off the brain running around in circles looking for a clue.

Jesus said, “Come to me.” I truly think he meant that. It may seem silly, but I go to him with everything, even though I’m sure he’s not really interested in everything. I let him decide what’s worth thinking about. I decide what to act on, but I let him guide the thinking. How? I turned my life into a prayer long ago. I don’t remember how or when it happened, so I think it was gradual. But I ain’t ever goin’ back no matter how crazy people think I am. It’s the only way to live. At least it’s the only way for me. My brain was fried in that awful accident 20 years ago. Without him helping me, I’d be a total mess. I truly believe these words with all my heart:

“If your own mind does not serve you well, you can exchange it for the mind of Jesus of Nazareth, who always serves you well.” (48:6.26)

“If any man thirst, let him come to me and drink. From the Father above I bring to this world the water of life.” (162:6.1)

“I always stand near, and my invitation-call is, and ever shall be, Come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am true and loyal, and you shall find spiritual rest for your souls.” (163:6.7)
BonitaParticipant
Apr 19, 2016, 4:04 PM
Rick, having just written my post on the soul, I realize that I forgot to mention another source of comfort from the Spirit of Truth, one I often take for granted, and that is his ability to alleviate loneliness. What a comfort that is. They say since Jesus walked this earth and we have gotten to know him, that we would all be horribly lonely without him. Who hasn’t fantasized about being alive in the first century and meeting Jesus, sitting down to eat with him, listening to him speak, asking him questions and watching him in action? I have and I do, but the good news is that we don’t have to go any further than our souls to be in his presence. How comforting is that?

166:3.7 Slowly the apostles and many of the disciples were learning the meaning of Jesus’ early declaration: “Unless you are born again, born of the spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of God.” Nevertheless, to all who are honest of heart and sincere in faith, it remains eternally true: “Behold, I stand at the doors of men’s hearts and knock, and if any man will open to me, I will come in and sup with him and will feed him with the bread of life; we shall be one in spirit and purpose, and so shall we ever be brethren in the long and fruitful service of the search for the Paradise Father.” And so, whether few or many are to be saved altogether depends on whether few or many will heed the invitation: “I am the door, I am the new and living way, and whosoever wills may enter to embark upon the endless truth-search for eternal life.”
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 19, 2016, 4:23 PM

Bonita wrote:

Rick, having just written my post on the soul, I realize that I forgot to mention another source of comfort from the Spirit of Truth, one I often take for granted, and that is his ability to alleviate loneliness. What a comfort that is. They say since Jesus walked this earth and we have gotten to know him, that we would all be horribly lonely without him. Who hasn’t fantasized about being alive in the first century and meeting Jesus, sitting down to eat with him, listening to him speak, asking him questions and watching him in action? I have and I do, but the good news is that we don’t have to go any further than our souls to be in his presence. How comforting is that?

VERY! Thanks a billion for both enlightening posts on the Comforter.

.It’s noteworthy that John Zebedee alluded to the Comforter more than once. Evidently Christianity has known since the Spirit of Truth’s inception:

John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
.

Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 20, 2016, 11:05 AM
Thanks again for insights into your inner life, Bonita. Most instructive.

No study of truth should omit the evolved and traditional view of it. So how does the scholarly community view truth? Wikipedia has a page on it. In the page’s introduction there is this astonishing statement:

Friedrich Nietzsche famously suggested that an ancient, metaphysical belief in the divinity of Truth lies at the heart of and has served as the foundation for the entire subsequent Western intellectual tradition: “But you will have gathered what I am getting at, namely, that it is still a metaphysical faith on which our faith in science rests–that even we knowers of today, we godless anti-metaphysicians still take our fire too, from the flame lit by the thousand-year old faith, the Christian faith which was also Plato’s faith, that God is Truth; that Truth is ‘Divine’…”[6][7]

Friedrich “God is dead” Nietzsche said that!?!

On the same Wiki page is this comment about the intellectual pursuit of truth:

Various theories and views of truth continue to be debated among scholars, philosophers, and theologians.[5] Language and words are a means by which humans convey information to one another and the method used to determine what is a “truth” is termed a criterion of truth. There are differing claims on such questions as what constitutes truth: what things are truthbearers capable of being true or false; how to define and identify truth; the roles that faith-based and empirically based knowledge play; and whether truth is subjective or objective, relative or absolute.

Source/more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth

You think university and seminary scholars would protest vehemently if truth were to be defined as it is by the UB authors–living? And shouldn’t a new concept of truth be inaugurated, making a distinction between truth with a lower case t, and Truth, upper case? Lower case would indicate relative truth, truth as it is perceived in time and space. And Truth would always refer to Absolute Truth, to God.

.

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Apr 20, 2016, 11:34 AM

Rick Warren wrote: And shouldn’t a new concept of truth be inaugurated, making a distinction between truth with a lower case t, and Truth, upper case? Lower case would indicate relative truth, truth as it is perceived in time and space. And Truth would always refer to Absolute Truth, to God.

Absolute Truth is the same as Final Truth, right? But even as finaliters we won’t know Final Truth, so why bother with something we will never know? God, as we know him, is a living God, so I’m personally only interested in living truth. In my mind, I consider living truth to be the one with a capital T, and the so-called truth scholars muse about is intellectual truth, which is not really truth at all, but philosophy. Philosophy is a material mind level phenomenon, truth is a morontia soul phenomenon.

No wait, I have a better idea. Truth with a capital T is a possession of the First Source and Center. Truth on this level is always the same because it is existential. Truth with a small t is the purview of the Creator Sons (Spirit of Truth). Truth on this level is relevant, flexible, growing and alive because it is experiential. What do you think?

p42:4 2:7.3 Divine truth, final truth, is uniform and universal, but the story of things spiritual, as it is told by numerous individuals hailing from various spheres, may sometimes vary in details owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience. While the laws and decrees, the thoughts and attitudes, of the First Great Source and Center are eternally, infinitely, and universally true; at the same time, their application to, and adjustment for, every universe, system, world, and created intelligence, are in accordance with the plans and technique of the Creator Sons as they function in their respective universes, as well as in harmony with the local plans and procedures of the Infinite Spirit and of all other associated celestial personalities.
Mark KurtzParticipant
Apr 20, 2016, 12:24 PM
Y’all can bat the definition ball back and forth for fun and personal acceptance at any level so desired. But, it seems all of us eventually realize we don’t own truth and therefore can never see the final “affidavit of perfection” , perhaps even as a finaliter as Bonita says. What civil discourse needs among philosophers and truth seekers is acceptance of impotence for defining finality. Regarding truth we seek, observe, utilize, admire, share, praise, compare, apply, work to understand and comprehend, and continue to seek for even more and better understanding for the processes and the results. But, we don’t own any of what we see, borrow, consume, or promulgate. Truth seeking amounts to progress making, considering all the above. When progress is no longer desired, then could we say one’s truth is digressing?

The truth is we are partial. It seems the ride on the pathway of truth seeking that is invigorating! The ferris wheel goes in a circle, but the ride excites! Turn over the rocks some more.
GeneParticipant
Apr 20, 2016, 2:31 PM
So what about the term “finaliter”

how truthful is that?
BonitaParticipant
Apr 20, 2016, 2:42 PM

Gene wrote:

So what about the term “finaliter” how truthful is that?

A finaliter is a perfected personality. Final truth is not perfected; it is perfect. One is experiential, the other existential.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 21, 2016, 9:23 AM

Mark Kurtz wrote:

Y’all can bat the definition ball back and forth for fun and personal acceptance at any level so desired. But, it seems all of us eventually realize we don’t own truth and therefore can never see the final “affidavit of perfection” , perhaps even as a finaliter as Bonita says. What civil discourse needs among philosophers and truth seekers is acceptance of impotence for defining finality. Regarding truth we seek, observe, utilize, admire, share, praise, compare, apply, work to understand and comprehend, and continue to seek for even more and better understanding for the processes and the results. But, we don’t own any of what we see, borrow, consume, or promulgate. Truth seeking amounts to progress making, considering all the above. When progress is no longer desired, then could we say one’s truth is digressing? The truth is we are partial. It seems the ride on the pathway of truth seeking that is invigorating! The ferris wheel goes in a circle, but the ride excites! Turn over the rocks some more.

Thanks for the thoughtful comments, Mark. Good question about progress. We are told there is no standing still, one is either swimming toward life’s established goals, or drowning in a stagnant pool. There’s little to no treading water, it’s just the nature and limits of being, one of God’s wise rules.

We have been informed that capacity for the reception of truth varies, it is unique for each of us. Our spirit ‘helper’ as Ganid called it, the Spirit of Truth, can increase capacity. But even before it was bestowed, while still on Urantia Jesus was teaching truth, expanding its definition and espousing its value. He well knew he was preparing Urantia’s soil for the planting of, “the last of the spirit endowment designed to aid in the ascending search for God”, the Spirit of Truth.

Several of the 84 Truth, Beauty, Goodness quotes are attributed to the Master, either verbatim or his teachings. The first one is about progress:

…To do the will of God, therefore, is the progressive experience of becoming more and more like God, and God is the source and destiny of all that is good and beautiful and true…. (1431.2) 130:2.7

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…Revealed truth, personally discovered truth, is the supreme delight of the human soul; it is the joint creation of the material mind and the indwelling spirit…. (1459.4) 132:3.4

“…Revere goodness and exalt truth. Choose the beautiful in place of the ugly. Love your fellows and reach out for God with a whole heart, for God is your Father in heaven….” (1461.4) 132:4.6

…He exalted love–truth, beauty, and goodness–as the divine ideal and the eternal reality…. (1583.5) 140:8.31

“…Beauty is always triumphant over ugliness in the hearts of all who are illuminated by the love of truth….” (1738.4) 156:5.5

“…Love is the ancestor of all spiritual goodness, the essence of the true and the beautiful….” (2047.5) 192:2.1

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Richard E Warren
Mark KurtzParticipant
Apr 21, 2016, 1:14 PM
There are times when attempts to share truth, or thinking about someone with whom to share, coupled with details of a person’s likely resistance, imagining so, frustrations develop about such resistance. I am told my home area is within the “Bible belt” (nebulously defined, of course) and that we need to be extra careful. Hmmmmmmmm.

Thinking about all I’ve heard and read about human resistance, it does seem to me people are effectively saying ‘No’ to God when rejecting anything other than their declared authority document, i.e. the Bible. Can we say to people something like, ‘Do you want to dare God or say No to God by rejecting something new?’ How can we say what we believe is final when we are not omniscient? Sharing truth can be joyful with people who are truly open. Truth can be a marvelous “lens” through which we observe new vistas of possibilities.

My first encounter with TUB was fraught with doubt, skepticism, mockery, curiosity, and some degree of frustration, even some degree of anger. As time passed, there came to mind joyful feelings and new clarity. And still more joy later. Why not share that!!!!!!

Let those who desire new vistas from new truth enjoy to the fullest the experiences of newer and expanded relationships with matter and spirit!
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 21, 2016, 1:53 PM

Mark Kurtz wrote:

There are times when attempts to share truth, or thinking about someone with whom to share, coupled with details of a person’s likely resistance, imagining so, frustrations develop about such resistance. I am told my home area is within the “Bible belt” (nebulously defined, of course) and that we need to be extra careful. Hmmmmmmmm. Thinking about all I’ve heard and read about human resistance, it does seem to me people are effectively saying ‘No’ to God when rejecting anything other than their declared authority document, i.e. the Bible. Can we say to people something like, ‘Do you want to dare God or say No to God by rejecting something new?’ How can we say what we believe is final when we are not omniscient? Sharing truth can be joyful with people who are truly open. Truth can be a marvelous “lens” through which we observe new vistas of possibilities. My first encounter with TUB was fraught with doubt, skepticism, mockery, curiosity, and some degree of frustration, even some degree of anger. As time passed, there came to mind joyful feelings and new clarity. And still more joy later. Why not share that!!!!!! Let those who desire new vistas from new truth enjoy to the fullest the experiences of newer and expanded relationships with matter and spirit!

Yes! And I am finally learning, don’t try to feed truth to those who aren’t hungry.

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Richard E Warren

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