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Who Knows "The Truth"? What is Truth? Where is Truth Found?

203 posts · 11 participants · started Mar 27, 2016, 11:58 AM

Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 1, 2016, 11:44 AM

Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote: Does “innate recognition” come only with maturity, like logic and reason. Can a babe recognize meanings and values? What is truth to a child? An evolving realization perhaps…but then truth evolves for us all, child or adult, no?

Great questions Rick. Innate recognition covers a lot of ground from adjutants to Adjuster, and then there’s personality. Personality has its own innate ability to recognize morality. (112:0.11) When it comes to the quote in question, the innate recognition of things, meanings and values, I think we’re referring to the cosmic mind in conjunction with other spirit influences, particularly the Spirit of Truth and the Adjuster.

16:6.9 These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures. The experience of living never fails to develop these three cosmic intuitions; they are constitutive in the self-consciousness of reflective thinking. But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking.

I think we’re born with personality and volition, but the free-will of a baby is limited by the state of its mental development. When each of the five lower adjutants make contact with the developing brain and mind of a baby is matter of opinion, but we do know that all seven make contact somewhere between age five and six. At this time the limited free-will of the baby shows willingness to be guided by spirit and thus experiences more liberty to explore its innate abilities to discern the difference between truth and error, as well as things, meanings and values. Innate abilities are given to us by personality and mind ministry, but they evolve and need to be developed. The above quote tells us development is through reflective thinking and independent cosmic thinking. (I’m struggling to explain this with as few words as possible, so I hope it’s making sense.) I think children more readily recognize truth because they are more likely to trust what experience as real. Truth is an experience, not an intellectual exercise, so truth can be experienced even by people with limited intellect as long as they have a soul. Truth is a soul experience.

130:4.10 Knowledge is demonstrable; truth is experienced. Knowledge is a possession of the mind; truth an experience of the soul . . .

In fact, Jesus said that the spiritual simplicity, easy-believing and full-trusting child is an example of the attitude we should adopt if we wish to realize the presence of God.

155:6.12 Many of your brethren have minds which accept the theory of God while they spiritually fail to realize the presence of God. And that is just the reason why I have so often taught you that the kingdom of heaven can best be realized by acquiring the spiritual attitude of a sincere child. It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the spiritual simplicity of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one.

Yeah, I agree that truth evolves, it changes. It has to change because truth is an experience of the soul and the soul dies if it doesn’t change. The soul is also a relationship, which is what truth is all about, as I tried to explain in a former post.

Thanks Bonita! You offer much clarity and understanding here. I found people are taken aback when truth and relationship are cited in the same sentence. It takes some ‘splainin’.

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Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 1, 2016, 11:50 AM
.

Question: Does truth have an agenda?

The reason I ask, some Facebook readers have been circulating an image of a wall, with these four words emblazoned across it: Truth Has No Agenda.

What do you say?

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Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Apr 1, 2016, 12:43 PM

Rick Warren wrote:Question: Does truth have an agenda?

The reason I ask, some Facebook readers have been circulating an image of a wall, with these four words emblazoned across it: Truth Has No Agenda. What do you say? .

That’s hysterical. I suppose it depends on how you define the word agenda. If they mean the slang way, as in hidden agenda, then I have to agree with the slogan. Truth has no ulterior motive. Also, if you define agenda to mean timetable, then I agree that truth has no timetable.

181:3.2 Things are time conditioned, but truth is timeless. The more truth you know, the more truth you are, the more of the past you can understand and of the future you can comprehend.

Other meanings of the word agenda, such as a general scheme or plan, a motive or intention, then I say that it probably does have an agenda. If you consider the ascension plan to be an agenda, then truth plays an enormous role in that.

I guess what you have to ask is, “What is the purpose of truth?” If truth is one of the three elements of reality, then I would say that truth’s agenda is reality. The more you embrace truth, the more real you become, the further you ascend in the psychic circles. That’s a pretty cool agenda.
BonitaParticipant
Apr 1, 2016, 12:45 PM
Oooops. Had an afterthought just as I hit the submit button.

If truth is a person, and we know him as the Spirit of Truth, then there is absolutely no doubt that Michael/Jesus has an agenda. He’s the way, the truth and the life. He’s the Good Shepherd, the Master. His agenda is that all his children make it out of his universe school and ascend all the way to Paradise. That’s a cool agenda too.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 1, 2016, 1:01 PM

Bonita wrote:

Oooops. Had an afterthought just as I hit the submit button. If truth is a person, and we know him as the Spirit of Truth, then there is absolutely no doubt that Michael/Jesus has an agenda. He’s the way, the truth and the life. He’s the Good Shepherd, the Master. His agenda is that all his children make it out of his universe school and ascend all the way to Paradise. That’s a cool agenda too.

That was my reaction too. And if God is equated with Truth, then Truth would have God’s agenda. But I like that you differentiated between definitions of agenda.

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Richard E Warren
Nigel NunnParticipant
Apr 1, 2016, 7:11 PM
Hi Bradly and Rick,

Just to clarify, Bonita was referring to my use of the offending phrase, Spirit of Fact, in an article I wrote on “Making Truth Accessible“. For reference, I’ve attached an updated pdf version of that article with offending phrase replaced (by another place-holder — please feel free to help adjust!)

Why bother coining any such phrase? I got to thinking about how a “level of consciousness” of the Divine Minister serves as “the seven adjutant mind spirits”, that initial ministry to the minds of baby ascenders in Nebadon. What I had in mind was another “level of consciousness” of the Divine Minister that makes accessible the three cosmic intuitions. Some sort of reality sensitivity (“Spirit of Validity”?) to complement the Spirit of Truth’s work in the soul. As I write on page 4 of the attached:

“As one level of her consciousness (the adjutants) fosters in us a capacity to believe, in her capacity as “Spirit of Validity”, she makes it possible for us to know, ….”

PS: Bradly, regarding truth and pre-spiritual persons, I was referring to the way faith and truth are described as “former techniques of personality assurance” in paper 101 section 5:

(1111.4, 101:5.14) “Increasingly throughout the morontia progression the assurance of truth replaces the assurance of faith. When you are finally mustered into the actual spirit world, then will the assurances of pure spirit insight operate in the place of faith and truth or, rather, in conjunction with, and superimposed upon, these former techniques of personality assurance.”

Nigel

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BonitaParticipant
Apr 1, 2016, 9:17 PM
The adjutants do not minister to ascenders in Nebadon. The adjutant mind spirits minister to faith-sons. When we are ascenders, which happens after fusion, the adjutant mind ministry has long since ceased to function.

40:6.1 You will be reckoned as ascending sons the instant fusion takes place, but the status of the mortals of time and space is that of faith sons prior to the event of the final amalgamation of the surviving mortal soul with some type of eternal and immortal spirit.

The adjutants are part of the cosmic mind. They are the lowest and most primitive part of the cosmic mind. Mind is a ministry. Cosmic mind is a ministry. Adjutants are ministries. They’re all part of the ministry of the Infinite Spirit.

56:2.3 This infinite and universal mind is ministered in the universes of time and space as the cosmic mind; and though extending from the primitive ministry of the adjutant spirits up to the magnificent mind of the chief executive of a universe, even this cosmic mind is adequately unified in the supervision of the Seven Master Spirits, who are in turn co-ordinated with the Supreme Mind of time and space and perfectly correlated with the all-embracing mind of the Infinite Spirit.

The recognition response of the cosmic mind is available to any personality with an Adjuster.

16:9.1 The cosmic-mind-endowed, Adjuster-indwelt, personal creature possesses innate recognition-realization of energy reality, mind reality, and spirit reality. The will creature is thus equipped to discern the fact, the law, and the love of God. Aside from these three inalienables of human consciousness, all human experience is really subjective except that intuitive realization of validity attaches to the unification of these three universe reality responses of cosmic recognition.

Reality sensitivity, the feeling of reality, is the function of the Adjuster.

102:3.12 The pursuit of knowledge constitutes science; the search for wisdom is philosophy; the love for God is religion; the hunger for truth is a revelation. But it is the indwelling Thought Adjuster that attaches the feeling of reality to man’s spiritual insight into the cosmos.

The complement for the Spirit of Truth in the soul is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is more than supermind; the Holy Spirit is also the personality presence of the Creative Spirit or Divine Minister. Personality is critical to reality recognition, since reality is only recognized by persons.

103:0.1 Man’s first supermind endowment is that of personality encircuitment in the Holy Spirit of the Universe Creative Spirit; and long before either the bestowals of the divine Sons or the universal bestowal of the Adjusters, this influence functions to enlarge man’s viewpoint of ethics, religion, and spirituality.

Personality assurance means salvation. Salvation is based upon faith initially, then upon self-revelation of truth. Personal religious experience is the means for personality assurance.

101:1.6 Faith unites moral insight with conscientious discriminations of values, and the pre-existent evolutionary sense of duty completes the ancestry of true religion. The experience of religion eventually results in the certain consciousness of God and in the undoubted assurance of the survival of the believing personality.

102:3.9 Knowledge yields pride in the fact of personality; wisdom is the consciousness of the meaning of personality; religion is the experience of cognizance of the value of personality; revelation is the assurance of personality survival.

101:0.3 The assurance of religion transcends the reason of the mind, even the logic of philosophy. Religion is faith, trust, and assurance.

The term “Spirit of Validity” does not exist anywhere in TUB. Adding the words “Spirit of” implies personality presence. The cosmic mind is impersonal. The presence of the Holy Spirit makes the cosmic mind available to our personalities and thus creates the capacity to self-realize, or experience self-revelation. But actual self-revelation is due to the Adjuster. She provides the space for this to happen, also known as the supermind.

9:5.4 The Conjoint Creator is the ancestor of the cosmic mind, and the mind of man is an individualized circuit, an impersonal portion, of that cosmic mind as it is bestowed in a local universe by a Creative Daughter of the Third Source and Center.

92:0.4 This ministry to a worship-craving and wisdom-desiring mind creates the capacity to self-realize the postulate of human survival, both in theologic concept and as an actual and factual personality experience.

I can’t find anything in TUB that says either the Divine Minister or the Holy Spirit validate anything. I’m pretty sure that validation comes from personal religious experience.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Apr 2, 2016, 2:31 PM
Dear Bonita, thanks for collecting those gems! It’s this intuitive realization of validity (195.7, 16:9.1) that I was thinking is “made accessible” by a level of consciousness of the Divine Minister, in her role as mediator of the three forms of the cosmic discrimination. I see her ministry in this role as essential to the “integration of reality” you mention in post 20297 above:

“I don’t think we mortals can integrate reality without logic. Even if we find truth in our souls, we have to keep it alive, not only in the spiritual realm, but in the mental and physical realms as well. We have to live on earth, not just above it.”

While the experience of the validity of spiritual and personal truth is made accessible by Adjuster and Spirit of Truth, I’m trying to feel out a way to describe the source of that subjective and faith-based sense of validity that the Divine Minister makes accessible, between the zealous belief of adjutant animation and the insight of full blown morontia mind.

What would be great (and much appreciated!) is if you could help rewrite my confused paragraph spanning pages 3 and 4 of the pdf attached to post 20361 above (please ignore if no time or interest).

The paragraph in question:

“Ok, this too is new. What’s even more surprising is how these intuitions, these “reality responses”, are made accessible to us. As local source and center of the “Nebadon variant of the Orvonton type of cosmic mind” (102.3, 9:4.3), our local universe mother, the Divine Minister of Salvington, complements Michael’s Spirit of Truth by serving as [ “spirit of …” ]; as local source of these three intuitions, she enables us not only to recognize (1) the facts of causality, (2) the facts of relative right and wrong, and (3) the facts of spirit values, but also to sense the meaning of all these facts (see 192:1, 16:6.5). As one level of her consciousness (the adjutants) fosters in us a capacity to believe, in her capacity as [“spirit of …”], she makes it possible for us to know, to discriminate fact from figment.”

As always, thanks for the time and thought you put into these forum discussions,

Nigel
BonitaParticipant
Apr 2, 2016, 2:35 PM

Rick Warren wrote: Thanks for the feast of questions! Some do relate directly to this thread: “Where is the Michael’s personality and how does it relate to the Spirit of Truth? Are the words fact and reality synonymous? Are facts and truth the same type of reality? Are facts ever a revelation? Can fact consciousness lead to truth consciousness? Is there such a thing as knowledge of truth, or is truth always experienced? What role does the Holy Spirit play in truth experience.”

No one seems to be interested in answering these questions, but that’s okay because I think I can answer them, or at least try to answer them.

Where is Michael’s personality and how does it relate to the Spirit of Truth?

Michael and his personality are inseparable. Wherever Michael is, so is his personality. However, he also has a spirit presence, the Spirit of Truth. This spirit presence is similar in concept to the spirit presence of the Father, known as the Thought Adjuster. The actual personality of God the Father does not indwell us. The Father’s personality is always on the Isle of Paradise; however, his personality presence does indwell us in the form of a fragment of his pre-personality.

9:2.5 Human beings can also in some degree become conscious of the Adjuster, the impersonal presence of the Universal Father.

Before creating Nebadon, Michael resided on Paradise. When he was released to create Nebadon, he had to remain on Salvington until the Creative Mother Spirit was able to establish a balance between gravity and mass (32:2.5). Michael is now free to go anywhere he chooses. This is not so for the Creative Spirit’s personality which must always remain on Salvington. (22:2.11; 34:4.7)

But even though Michael and his personality can be anywhere, he leaves his personality presence with the Creative Spirit (21:2.11-12). And, although the Creative Spirit’s personality is always on Salvington, her personality presence is within every mortal in Nebadon, which allows her to bring the personality presence of Michael to each and every one of us with a soul. Why a soul? Because the personality presence of the Creative Spirit is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is only in the soul.

The presence of the Creative Spirit, or Divine Minister, may be anywhere, it’s called omnipresence. But the Holy Spirit is different, she resides specifically within the soul because that is the spiritual center of each mortal. The Holy Spirit, and with her, the Spirit of Truth, are confined to the spiritual realm of their creation. The Holy Spirit is a particular spirit circuit of the Divine Minister’s, of which the adjutants are not a part. The Holy Spirit is just a part of the Divine Minister, or Creative Spirit’s presence, a part with a very specific function. But I won’t go into that because it is not part of the answer to this question.

8:5.3 The Holy Spirit is a circuit indigenous to each local universe and is confined to the spiritual realm of that creation; but the Infinite Spirit is omnipresent.

34:4.3 2. The spirit circuit of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit.

36:5.16 The adjutant mind-spirits are in no manner directly related to the diverse and highly spiritual function of the spirit of the personal presence of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit of the inhabited worlds; but they are functionally antecedent to, and preparatory for, the appearance of this very spirit in evolutionary man.
BonitaParticipant
Apr 2, 2016, 2:57 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote: What would be great (and much appreciated!) is if you could help rewrite my confused paragraph . . .

Nigel, I’ve been waiting over two years to discuss this with you. I’m more than willing and always have been, but you have a problem with responding in a timely manner. I don’t want that to sound harsh and “acerbic,” as I’ve been accused of being by Moderator 2, it’s just that I cannot converse with a person who doesn’t respond, or takes months and years to do it. If you’re willing to communicate, I’m willing also. But it has to be a team effort or it’s entirely worthless to both of us. If you disagree with me, fine. I really don’t care, just say something . . . anything. Even an ugh! or aargh! would do. Grunt once for yes, two for no . . . just kidding . . . no really, I am.

If you read my last post, and thought about it, you would see that this sentence you wrote is not entirely kosher:

Nigel Nunn wrote: . . . our local universe mother, the Divine Minister of Salvington, complements Michael’s Spirit of Truth by serving as . . .

The Divine Minister is not the complement of the Spirit of Truth. The Holy Spirit is the complement of the Spirit of Truth. There’s no need to rename her. She has her own name and function.

Okay, now your turn . . . .
BonitaParticipant
Apr 3, 2016, 2:14 PM
Rick Warren wrote: Thanks for the feast of questions! Some do relate directly to this thread: “Where is the Michael’s personality and how does it relate to the Spirit of Truth? Are the words fact and reality synonymous? Are facts and truth the same type of reality? Are facts ever a revelation? Can fact consciousness lead to truth consciousness? Is there such a thing as knowledge of truth, or is truth always experienced? What role does the Holy Spirit play in truth experience.”

Are the words fact and reality synonymous?

Fact is only one element of a trifold finite reality. The three elements of reality are;
1. fact
2. idea
3. relation
196:3.2 There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea, and relation. The religious consciousness identifies these realities as science, philosophy, and truth. Philosophy would be inclined to view these activities as reason, wisdom, and faith — physical reality, intellectual reality, and spiritual reality. We are in the habit of designating these realities as thing, meaning, and value.

But, as stated in the quote above, the three elements of reality also have other names:
1. physical reality, science, fact, reason, thing
2. intellectual (mindal) reality, idea, philosophy, meaning
3. spiritual reality, faith, relation, truth, value
These same three levels of reality are recognized by the discriminating intuitions of the cosmic mind and are given additional names (16:6.6-8):
1. causation
2. duty
3. worship
Finally, these same levels are also the three functioning levels of finite reality we are told that the human intellect can grasp the meaning of (12:8.9-12):
1. Matter
2. Mind
3. Spirit
Fact is always the material level of reality involving matter, math, science, reason, things and causation. The goal is to integrate all three levels of reality into a unified philosophy, and in regards to finite reality, such integrations occur within a personal finite mind. Mind is unity and personality is the unifier.

The reality level of finite mind functions to integrate matter and spirit realities by giving them meaning for the individual personality on finite levels. However, for Adjuster indwelt personalities, the goal is always spiritual reality, which means that all three levels of reality are not of the same value to personality in terms of goal attainment, divinity of personality, which is also personality assurance. Therefore, although facts are essential to finding the meanings which build a solid philosophy of living, they are not as important as values, which are spiritual. Momentum of reality recognition is toward the spiritual.

12:8.15 Mind, matter, and spirit are equally real, but they are not of equal value to personality in the attainment of divinity.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Apr 3, 2016, 6:04 PM
Hi Bonita — When you say ( post 20378 ) “and the Holy Spirit is only in the soul.”, what relation do mortals have with her spirit presence prior to receiving an Adjuster, i.e. before that mortal has a soul?

(379.4, 34:5.4) When mind is thus endowed with the ministry of the Holy Spirit, it possesses the capacity for (consciously or unconsciously) choosing the spiritual presence of the Universal Father — the Thought Adjuster.

Also, with regard to your comment:

“The presence of the Creative Spirit, or Divine Minister, may be anywhere, it’s called omnipresence.“

As I understand it, omnipresence is an attribute of the Infinite Spirit. Since omnipresence implies presence at all times as well as all places, our Divine Minister’s presence would seem to be more ubiquitous (within Nebadon) than omnipresent?

Bonita wrote: “Your turn.”

Ok, here’s a thought: Given that Adjusters can serve as a cosmic window through which our personality might faith-glimpse “certainties and divinities” (1129.1, 103:0.1), do the three cosmic intuitions function as windows through which our mind might glimpse other types of certainties?

This is what I was getting at when I wrote about humans mistaking their particular experiential certainty (made accessible via the cosmic intuitions) with experiential truth. Thus Richard Dawkins can sincerely mistake the mathematical form of the cosmic discrimination for the only type of truth available. Or mystics can sincerely settle for the worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination (experienced in their mind) instead of the personal truth made accessible by the Father and the Son.

(1129.1, 103:0.1) “[…] The Thought Adjuster is the cosmic window through which the finite creature may faith-glimpse the certainties and divinities of limitless Deity, the Universal Father.”

PS: the reason I’ve been fishing for an alternate phrase to describe her role as mediator of the cosmic intuitions is that this particular ministry is “mindal”, and thus distinct from the spiritual ministry of her Holy Spirit.

Bonita wrote:

“Fact is always the material level of reality involving matter, math, science, reason, things and causation.”

Ahah, this may be the source of our non-consensus: I’ve always included the Adjuster as my first fact

Nigel
BonitaParticipant
Apr 3, 2016, 7:13 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote:Hi Bonita — When you say ( post 20378 ) “and the Holy Spirit is only in the soul.”, what relation do mortals have with her spirit presence prior to receiving an Adjuster, i.e. before that mortal has a soul?

None. The Holy Spirit arrives when the mortal enters the seventh psychic circle. That does not mean that individuals prior to the birth of their souls are not ministered to by cosmic mind, or the Divine Minister.

110:6.13 The seventh circle. This level is entered when human beings develop the powers of personal choice, individual decision, moral responsibility, and the capacity for the attainment of spiritual individuality. This signifies the united function of the seven adjutant mind-spirits under the direction of the spirit of wisdom, the encircuitment of the mortal creature in the influence of the Holy Spirit, and, on Urantia, the first functioning of the Spirit of Truth, together with the reception of a Thought Adjuster in the mortal mind. Entrance upon the seventh circle constitutes a mortal creature a truly potential citizen of the local universe.

Nigel Nunn wrote: As I understand it, omnipresence is an attribute of the Infinite Spirit. Since omnipresence implies presence at all times as well as all places, our Divine Minister’s presence would seem to be more ubiquitous (within Nebadon) than omnipresent?

Yes, I meant omnipresent within her sphere of influence, Nebadon. Ubiquitous presence might be a better way to describe it. The Divine Minister functions on all levels of reality (within her universe), but her personality presence has to be on spiritual levels, hence the role of the Holy Spirit. Incidentally, the Holy Spirit is also really a combined spirit consisting of both the Infinite Spirit and the Creative Spirit.

194:2.17 The spirit of the Infinite Spirit and the Universe Mother Spirit — the Holy Spirit, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Spirit.

Nigel Nunn wrote: This is what I was getting at when I wrote about humans mistaking their particular experiential certainty (made accessible via the cosmic intuitions) with experiential truth. Thus Richard Dawkins can sincerely mistake the mathematical form of the cosmic discrimination for the only type of truth available. Or mystics can sincerely settle for the worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination (experienced in their mind) instead of the personal truth made accessible by the Father and the Son.

This is a description of failure to unify and coordinate all three levels of reality in personality development. Dawkins ignores spiritual reality and mystics ignore material reality. The mind is in between both levels and has to unify and coordinate the two realities in order to create a balanced and symmetric personality. It’s about that elliptical symmetry of thought mentioned in TUB.

16:6.10 These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions.

Nigel Nunn wrote: . . . do the three cosmic intuitions function as windows through which our mind might glimpse other types of certainties?

I suppose that’s one way to visualize it. But I think of it more in line with mind gravity. The strongest mind gravity occurs in pure mind, mind not subject to material or spiritual gravity. It draws all divine thoughts toward the Infinite Spirit. But when the cosmic mind is associated with material or spirit gravity, it still functions, and quite well.

My visualization, which might seem a bit crude in description, is that material gravity pulls material thinking toward it, but mind gravity is dominant over material gravity, so when thoughts tend toward a higher level, they are exhibiting recognition of a higher gravity presence, similarly with spirit gravity. It is the recognition of a higher drawing power that is innate in mind. Mind is unity. It strives to unify divergent levels of reality with the goal always toward the highest gravity pull, that of spirit. I don’t know if I drew an adequate mental picture with that description. Probably could do better, but I’ll have to work on it.

Nigel Nunn wrote: PS: the reason I’ve been fishing for an alternate phrase to describe her role as mediator of the cosmic intuitions is that this particular ministry is “mindal”, and thus distinct from the spiritual ministry of her Holy Spirit.

Don’t forget that the Holy Spirit is mind too, just mind on a spiritual level. The Holy Spirit is the supermind. What could be more mindal than that for humans? I know I’ve posted the quotes about this before, so forgive me if I’m being redundant. Here they are again:

92:0.4 3. The Holy Spirit — this is the initial supermind bestowal, and it unfailingly appears in all bona fide human personalities.

103:0.1 Man’s first supermind endowment is that of personality encircuitment in the Holy Spirit of the Universe Creative Spirit; . . .

101:3.2 Spiritual reason, soul intelligence, is the endowment of the Holy Spirit, the Creative Spirit’s gift to man.

Nigel Nunn wrote: I’ve always included the Adjuster as my first fact

Well, if the Adjuster is God, then the Adjuster would be the first truth and the last fact, right? If you’re thinking of the Adjuster as fact, then you’re thinking of all that is relative to the Adjuster, not the Adjuster himself.

102:6.6 God is the first truth and the last fact; therefore does all truth take origin in him, while all facts exist relative to him.

Facts are about infinity-reality and truth is about reality-infinity. God is the first reality that goes on for infinity and the last part of infinity that is real. Facts are always relative to God, but truth is God.

Thanks for the conversation. Enjoying it immensely. So, shall we go on with your rewrite?
GeneParticipant
Apr 4, 2016, 1:25 AM
what about worship.

are we in worship mode when experiencing truth?
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 4, 2016, 10:48 AM

Nigel Nunn wrote:

Hi Bradly and Rick, Just to clarify, Bonita was referring to my use of the offending phrase, Spirit of Fact, in an article I wrote on “Making Truth Accessible“. For reference, I’ve attached an updated pdf version of that article with offending phrase replaced (by another place-holder — please feel free to help adjust!) Why bother coining any such phrase? I got to thinking about how a “level of consciousness” of the Divine Minister serves as “the seven adjutant mind spirits”, that initial ministry to the minds of baby ascenders in Nebadon. What I had in mind was another “level of consciousness” of the Divine Minister that makes accessible the three cosmic intuitions. Some sort of reality sensitivity (“Spirit of Validity”?) to complement the Spirit of Truth’s work in the soul. As I write on page 4 of the attached:

“As one level of her consciousness (the adjutants) fosters in us a capacity to believe, in her capacity as “Spirit of Validity”, she makes it possible for us to know, ….” PS: Bradly, regarding truth and pre-spiritual persons, I was referring to the way faith and truth are described as “former techniques of personality assurance” in paper 101 section 5:

(1111.4, 101:5.14) “Increasingly throughout the morontia progression the assurance of truth replaces the assurance of faith. When you are finally mustered into the actual spirit world, then will the assurances of pure spirit insight operate in the place of faith and truth or, rather, in conjunction with, and superimposed upon, these former techniques of personality assurance.” Nigel

Thanks Nigel. I should have realized there was more to it. But the term “spirit of fact” doesn’t appear in your essay, Spirit of Validity does. I can’t see anything wrong with using either term in attempting to teach the truths and the facts presented in the UB, as long as they clarify and enlighten, which your essay does.

.

.

Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 4, 2016, 11:05 AM

Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote: Thanks for the feast of questions! Some do relate directly to this thread: “Where is the Michael’s personality and how does it relate to the Spirit of Truth? Are the words fact and reality synonymous? Are facts and truth the same type of reality? Are facts ever a revelation? Can fact consciousness lead to truth consciousness? Is there such a thing as knowledge of truth, or is truth always experienced? What role does the Holy Spirit play in truth experience.”

No one seems to be interested in answering these questions, but that’s okay because I think I can answer them, or at least try to answer them. Where is Michael’s personality and how does it relate to the Spirit of Truth? Michael and his personality are inseparable. Wherever Michael is, so is his personality. However, he also has a spirit presence, the Spirit of Truth. This spirit presence is similar in concept to the spirit presence of the Father, known as the Thought Adjuster. The actual personality of God the Father does not indwell us. The Father’s personality is always on the Isle of Paradise; however, his personality presence does indwell us in the form of a fragment of his pre-personality.

9:2.5 Human beings can also in some degree become conscious of the Adjuster, the impersonal presence of the Universal Father.

Before creating Nebadon, Michael resided on Paradise. When he was released to create Nebadon, he had to remain on Salvington until the Creative Mother Spirit was able to establish a balance between gravity and mass (32:2.5). Michael is now free to go anywhere he chooses. This is not so for the Creative Spirit’s personality which must always remain on Salvington. (22:2.11; 34:4.7) But even though Michael and his personality can be anywhere, he leaves his personality presence with the Creative Spirit (21:2.11-12). And, although the Creative Spirit’s personality is always on Salvington, her personality presence is within every mortal in Nebadon, which allows her to bring the personality presence of Michael to each and every one of us with a soul. Why a soul? Because the personality presence of the Creative Spirit is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is only in the soul. The presence of the Creative Spirit, or Divine Minister, may be anywhere, it’s called omnipresence. But the Holy Spirit is different, she resides specifically within the soul because that is the spiritual center of each mortal. The Holy Spirit, and with her, the Spirit of Truth, are confined to the spiritual realm of their creation. The Holy Spirit is a particular spirit circuit of the Divine Minister’s, of which the adjutants are not a part. The Holy Spirit is just a part of the Divine Minister, or Creative Spirit’s presence, a part with a very specific function. But I won’t go into that because it is not part of the answer to this question.

8:5.3 The Holy Spirit is a circuit indigenous to each local universe and is confined to the spiritual realm of that creation; but the Infinite Spirit is omnipresent. 34:4.3 2. The spirit circuit of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit. 36:5.16 The adjutant mind-spirits are in no manner directly related to the diverse and highly spiritual function of the spirit of the personal presence of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit of the inhabited worlds; but they are functionally antecedent to, and preparatory for, the appearance of this very spirit in evolutionary man.

Thanks Bonita. Much appreciate the answers and insights to that batch of questions. There may be unending confusion among readers about the value, range, and function of the multiple ministries of the Infinite Spirit as He is down-stepped and diversified way out here in time and space, so your comments and attention to subtle details are very helpful.

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Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 4, 2016, 11:18 AM
Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote: Thanks for the feast of questions! Some do relate directly to this thread: “Where is the Michael’s personality and how does it relate to the Spirit of Truth? Are the words fact and reality synonymous? Are facts and truth the same type of reality? Are facts ever a revelation? Can fact consciousness lead to truth consciousness? Is there such a thing as knowledge of truth, or is truth always experienced? What role does the Holy Spirit play in truth experience.”

Are the words fact and reality synonymous? Fact is only one element of a trifold finite reality. The three elements of reality are;
1. fact
2. idea
3. relation
196:3.2 There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea, and relation. The religious consciousness identifies these realities as science, philosophy, and truth. Philosophy would be inclined to view these activities as reason, wisdom, and faith — physical reality, intellectual reality, and spiritual reality. We are in the habit of designating these realities as thing, meaning, and value.

But, as stated in the quote above, the three elements of reality also have other names:
1. physical reality, science, fact, reason, thing
2. intellectual (mindal) reality, idea, philosophy, meaning
3. spiritual reality, faith, relation, truth, value
These same three levels of reality are recognized by the discriminating intuitions of the cosmic mind and are given additional names (16:6.6-8):
1. causation
2. duty
3. worship
Finally, these same levels are also the three functioning levels of finite reality we are told that the human intellect can grasp the meaning of (12:8.9-12):
1. Matter
2. Mind
3. Spirit
Fact is always the material level of reality involving matter, math, science, reason, things and causation. The goal is to integrate all three levels of reality into a unified philosophy, and in regards to finite reality, such integrations occur within a personal finite mind. Mind is unity and personality is the unifier. The reality level of finite mind functions to integrate matter and spirit realities by giving them meaning for the individual personality on finite levels. However, for Adjuster indwelt personalities, the goal is always spiritual reality, which means that all three levels of reality are not of the same value to personality in terms of goal attainment, divinity of personality, which is also personality assurance. Therefore, although facts are essential to finding the meanings which build a solid philosophy of living, they are not as important as values, which are spiritual. Momentum of reality recognition is toward the spiritual.

12:8.15 Mind, matter, and spirit are equally real, but they are not of equal value to personality in the attainment of divinity.
Excellent thought extension, classification and evaluation, Bonita. Another way to distinguish fact from reality is with this jewel from the treasure chest of the Melchizedek Papers:

…The eternal real is the good of the universe and not the time illusions of space evil. In the spiritual experience of all personalities, always is it true that the real is the good and the good is the real…. ^(1122.11) ^102:3.15

Facts aren’t always good or real.

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Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Apr 4, 2016, 11:37 AM

Gene wrote:

what about worship. are we in worship mode when experiencing truth?

Interesting and relevant thought here, Gene, since both truth and worship are intimately connected in and thru God. Twice the Midwayers mention ‘worshiping in spirit and truth’:

…But you should believe me when I say that the hour will soon come–even now is–when all sincere worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for it is just such worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and they who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth….” (1613:4) 143:5:6

“…The time has come when you worship God neither on Gerizim nor at Jerusalem, but where you are, as you are, in spirit and in truth….” (2053:4) 193:1.2

What does this mean?

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Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Apr 4, 2016, 12:20 PM

Gene wrote:what about worship. are we in worship mode when experiencing truth?

Gene, truth is defined as:

180:5.3 Truth is a spiritual reality value experienced only by spirit-endowed beings who function upon supermaterial levels of universe consciousness, and who, after the realization of truth, permit its spirit of activation to live and reign within their souls.

How do you suppose you get to supermaterial levels of universe consciousness without worship? You can’t. The sixth and seventh adjutants, the spirits of worship and wisdom, are the gateway to the soul, the beginning of spiritual insight. The soul is a level of supermaterial consciousness. The soul is where truth is discovered, recognized, interpreted and chosen. Recall that truth is on the spiritual level of reality. Facts are on the material level of reality, ideas are on the mindal level of reality, truth is on the spiritual level of reality.
BonitaParticipant
Apr 4, 2016, 12:35 PM

Rick Warren wrote: Facts aren’t always good or real.

I agree that facts cannot be truly good if you define good as virtuous or righteous since that requires a personality. Then they wouldn’t be facts at all. But facts can be good if you define good as useful or beneficial. Gravity is a fact which I think is a very good thing.

I disagree that facts aren’t always real. Facts are one element of a trifold reality. Facts are real. Of course, made up facts, especially those with specious reasoning, erroneous thinking and casuistry, are not really facts at all, but fabrication or non-facts (nice word for lies). Sorta like sophistry. Kinda like what Lucifer did, which is why he became unreal.

196:3.2 There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea, and relation.

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Who Knows "The Truth"? What is Truth? Where is Truth Found?

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