Who Knows "The Truth"? What is Truth? Where is Truth Found?

203 posts · 11 participants · started Mar 27, 2016, 11:58 AM

1. RE

   Richard E WarrenParticipant
   Mar 27, 2016, 11:58 AM
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   Forum Friends,

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   It was during Jesus’ strange trial that Pilate asked half seriously, half in ridicule: “…Truth, what is truth — who knows?” (1991.5) 185:3.5

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   The irony of having God’s son, the living truth standing before you and then asking that question would be laughable if the Master weren’t about to be whipped half to death by Pilate’s order, then crucified.

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   Before the Master left the planet he promised a new spirit influence would come to the apostles, and everyone. The Spirit of Truth was bestowed on Urantia and all Nebadon 40 days after the Master’s resurrection (May 18, AD 30).  This Truth Spirit of Michael combines with the Holy Spirit in those already “encircuited”, making way for universal Adjuster bestowal. Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit well before he died.

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   …Said Jesus: “John did indeed baptize you in token of repentance and for the remission of your sins, but when you enter the heavenly kingdom, you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” (137:8.10 (1536.7)

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   And after his death and resurrection morontia Jesus said this to his apostles:

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      “…Through fear you now flee from the facts of a disagreeable experience, but when you shall have been baptized with the Spirit of Truth, you will bravely and joyously go forth to meet the new experiences of proclaiming the good news of eternal life in the kingdom of God.” 191:5.3 (2043.1)

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   40 days later Truth flooded our little universe, and personal will creatures could note the difference. Anyway the apostles did. Have you wondered if you can sometimes discern the Spirit of Truth at work, distinct from the Indweller, and the Holy Spirit? No doubt they all work as one and are difficult to distinguish, but is there some subtle difference in feeling or outworking that you have noted?

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   Over past weeks we UB students/teachers here on UAI Forum have, in a measure, explored two of the three core divine attributes, Beauty, then Goodness.  These  three are presented as the pillars of God’s eternal nature, and the bent of his infinite character. The third attribute is of course, Truth. For the next 40 days, until the celebration of the day of Pentecost, I propose discussing this most prominent wing of the Truth, Beauty, Goodness trio, until May 6.

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   Truth is by far the most cited of the three in the book. Just to give an idea of the relative conceptual space that was accorded each, consider this raw word statistic, the TB&G count, by paragraph, and according to “FOLIOS”:

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   Truth = 790

   True = 702

   Truly = 273

   Truths = 95

   Truthful = 5

   Truest = 4

   Truthfully = 4

   Truer = 3

   Truthfulness = 2

   Trueness = 1

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   Good = 559

   Goodness = 152

   Goods = 25

   Goodly = 4

   Goodnesses = 2

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   Beauty = 148

   Beautiful = 125

   Beauties = 9

   Beautifully = 6

   Beautification = 6

   Beauteous = 4

   Beautified = 1

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   Going to the very core of the matter of truth, how would you answer Pilate’s question: ‘What is truth?’ Is it identifiable? Is it quantifiable? Can that first question even be answered since the authors consistently declare truth, real truth, lives?

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   …Truth cannot be defined with words, only by living. Truth is always more than knowledge…. (1459.2) 132:3.2

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   May yours be a true, beautiful and good resurrection day! Or, if you prefer, Happy Easter!!
   

   ***

   Richard E Warren

2. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Mar 27, 2016, 2:52 PM

   Thank you Rick.  Another wonderful presentation of an extremely important topic.

   I think you answered your own question when you mentioned that truth lives.  Living truth isn’t so much a “what” as it is a “who”.  Years ago I got myself into a lot of hot water for saying that truth is a person, living truth, that is, and I still think so.

   But as to Pilot’s question, it’s not all that far fetched really.  We all know that truth is relative and cannot be nailed down.  Facts can be nailed down (which is why there is no such thing as a Spirit of Fact), but anything short of divine and final truth on Paradise, cannot be anything but relative.

   79:8.8 Truth is relative and expanding; it lives always in the present, achieving new expression in each generation of men–even in each human life.

   2:7.2 Physical facts are fairly uniform, but truth is a living and flexible factor in the philosophy of the universe.

   Years ago I compiled a list of “the truth is” quotes from TUB, the two above being part of it.  One of those quotes that I absolutely love is the one that says truth is always a revelation.  The word “always” impresses me when it’s used in TUB.  It means it can never be anything other.  You have to love that.

   101:4.3  Truth is always a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.

   The Spirit of Truth is a revealer, a revelation of truth to the soul, but the spirit of wisdom is necessary to open the gateway from the mind to the soul.  And, probably another topic altogether, the Holy Spirit reaches down in her overlapping ministry to mind.  In the soul, the Holy Spirit has her own presence (34:4.7) while providing the focus for the Spirit of Truth.  They work in concert as a dual spirit liaison (34:5.4).

   101:6.4 Truth is made accessible to the wisdom-endowed individual by the bestowal on such a mind of the spirits of the Father and the Sons, the Thought Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth.

3. G

   GeneParticipant
   Mar 27, 2016, 10:44 PM

   truth is always a revelation

   to add a bit to what Bonita says about this paper:

   101.6.4 talks about evolutionary knowledge as an accumulation of protoplasmic memory material, something we share with animals but capable of being wisdom endowed by reformulating and rearranging ideas, then becoming different from our animal cousins and capable of access to truth with the help of the father son spirits the TA and spirit of truth.

   101.6.5 goes on to say that Jesus lived under reign of evolutionary religion until his babtism.

   interesting to consider this phase of the masters life and this paper that talks about access to truth.

   i don’t believe he was missing anything.

4. RE

   Richard E WarrenParticipant
   Mar 28, 2016, 10:36 AM

   Bonita wrote:

   Thank you Rick. Another wonderful presentation of an extremely important topic. I think you answered your own question when you mentioned that truth lives. Living truth isn’t so much a “what” as it is a “who”. Years ago I got myself into a lot of hot water for saying that truth is a person, living truth, that is, and I still think so. But as to Pilot’s question, it’s not all that far fetched really. We all know that truth is relative and cannot be nailed down. Facts can be nailed down (which is why there is no such thing as a Spirit of Fact), but anything short of divine and final truth on Paradise, cannot be anything but relative.

   79:8.8 Truth is relative and expanding; it lives always in the present, achieving new expression in each generation of men–even in each human life. 2:7.2 Physical facts are fairly uniform, but truth is a living and flexible factor in the philosophy of the universe.

   Years ago I compiled a list of “the truth is” quotes from TUB, the two above being part of it. One of those quotes that I absolutely love is the one that says truth is always a revelation. The word “always” impresses me when it’s used in TUB. It means it can never be anything other. You have to love that.

   101:4.3 Truth is always a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.

   The Spirit of Truth is a revealer, a revelation of truth to the soul, but the spirit of wisdom is necessary to open the gateway from the mind to the soul. And, probably another topic altogether, the Holy Spirit reaches down in her overlapping ministry to mind. In the soul, the Holy Spirit has her own presence (34:4.7) while providing the focus for the Spirit of Truth. They work in concert as a dual spirit liaison (34:5.4).

   101:6.4 Truth is made accessible to the wisdom-endowed individual by the bestowal on such a mind of the spirits of the Father and the Sons, the Thought Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth.

   Excellent contributions as usual, Bonita. Thank you, I had to laugh on reading the new phrase you coined: Spirit of Fact And this conjures beautiful imagery: “…the spirit of wisdom is necessary to open the gateway from the mind to the soul.”

   

   Richard E Warren

5. RE

   Richard E WarrenParticipant
   Mar 28, 2016, 10:52 AM

   Gene wrote:

   truth is always a revelation to add a bit to what Bonita says about this paper: 101.6.4 talks about evolutionary knowledge as an accumulation of protoplasmic memory material, something we share with animals but capable of being wisdom endowed by reformulating and rearranging ideas, then becoming different from our animal cousins and capable of access to truth with the help of the father son spirits the TA and spirit of truth. 101.6.5 goes on to say that Jesus lived under reign of evolutionary religion until his baptism. interesting to consider this phase of the masters life and this paper that talks about access to truth. i don’t believe he was missing anything.

   I don’t either, Gene. And you bring out a crucial point about accessing truth. Evidently truth evolves and manifests differently in every phase of life. But we know some are more mature in the acquisition, knowledge, and application of truth. Also in evidence, the Master knew this because he taught the Corinthian miller to:

   “…Give the milk of truth to those who are babes in spiritual perception. In your living and loving ministry serve spiritual food in attractive form and suited to the capacity of receptivity of each of your inquirers.” ^{(1474.2) 133:4.2}

   Later, he said this to his apostles:

   “…My beloved, you must always make a difference in teaching so as to suit your presentation of truth to the minds and hearts before you. ^{(1691.4) 151:3.1}

   .

   Richard E Warren

6. RE

   Richard E WarrenParticipant
   Mar 28, 2016, 11:56 AM

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   Truth is available to the average human, we are told, by two means: auto revelation and epochal revelation. But why should we want truth in the first place?

   …The sincere pursuit of goodness, beauty, and truth leads to God…. ^{(2078.3) 195:6.17}

   Where does truth originate?

   …God is the first truth and the last fact; therefore does all truth take origin in him, while all facts exist relative to him…. ^{(1125.1) 102:6.6}
   

   Truth has to have its origin in the one great and mysterious Being-over-all, God. But how much of God’s truth can we acquire during the short test of incarnation far, so far away from perfection?

      …On any level of existence God cannot exceed the conceptual capacity of the beings who live on such a level…. ^{(641.4) 56:6.3}
   

      Since all genuine truth originates with God, this must be the Standard of Truth. The truth for us is Father needs our experience to create the Supreme, an evolved time/space being in whose making we have a creative role–if we want it. The Supreme is constructed from the Truth that is created by our experience in time and space. God has a project, it has to do with Truth accumulation and personification. Such a plan for such a Universe!
   

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     The wonderful news about truth is that our Paradise Father wants us to have and live it, Jesus was a perfect living example. If we have faith in the truth of God we will eventually see God. In the meantime we will have the entire cosmos as our university, our playground, and our locus of service.

   We have a multiplicity of spirit influences within our unique body/mind/spirit units right now. These inner influences assist us in finding and living truth. The Father of Creation lives in us this minute, as does the Spirit of Truth (a spirit singular to Truth!). And the seven adjutant spirits of the Mother of Nebadon also indwell us. The highest, the Spirit of Wisdom, works seamlessly with the Spirit of Truth.  All this inner network of divine sorting and leading is there to assist and guide us in living the truth, creating beauty and doing good.

   What an immense span of truth our new revelation offers, from soul awakening on this spinning, organic, fully self-contained planet to the shores of Absolute Truth and the presence of Father on Paradise. Out here on the very fringes of imperfection, we were born in abject ignorance, without the knowledge of even the concept of truth. As we grow in body, mind and spirit, aspects of truth, goodness and beauty become part of our being, one experience at a time.

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   Truth and its realization are at the epicenter of the intention behind the presentation of the Urantia Book. The concept of truth  appears in the very first and the very last paragraph of our new revelation.

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   From a Divine Counselor in the Foreword:

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   …I have been directed to formulate this introductory statement in explanation of the meanings which should be attached to certain word symbols as they may be hereinafter used in those papers which the Orvonton corps of truth revealers have been authorized to translate into the English language of Urantia…. ^{(1.1) 0:0.1}

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   From the Midwayers on page 2097:

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   …Only the spirit content of any value is imperishable. Even that which is true, beautiful, and good may not perish in human experience….  ^{(2097.3) 196:3.35}

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   The value of divine Truth cannot be overstated, because “God is truth”, something the Cynics and Hindus recognized long ago:
   

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    “…He will guide the honest of heart into the truth, for God is truth….” ^{(1443.2) 131:1.6 (Cynics)}
   

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   “…God is truth. And it is the desire of God that his creatures should understand him — come fully to know the truth. Truth is eternal; it sustains the universe….” ^{(1449.1) 131:4.6 (Hinduism)}

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   Once the Truth of God on Paradise and God dwelling within are discovered by a lowly human on Urantia, what is next? A single human can discover truth, but is the whole world ready? If it is, how best to present it? If it isn’t ready, should/can anything be done to make it ready?

   Richard E Warren

7. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Mar 28, 2016, 12:41 PM

   Rick Warren wrote: I had to laugh on reading the new phrase you coined: Spirit of Fact

   You’re being facetious, right? That phrase was coined by Chris Halvorson then quoted and published by Nigel Nunn. Please don’t blame me for that piece of misinformation.  I have my own mistakes to deal with.

   Rick Warren wrote: Once the Truth of God on Paradise and God dwelling within are discovered by a lowly human on Urantia, what is next? A single human can discover truth, but is the whole world ready? If it is, how best to present it? If it isn’t ready, should/can anything be done to make it ready?

   Is the whole world ready for what?  For discovering truth?  The whole world is already in the process of doing that.  The Spirit of Truth has been poured out upon all flesh.  The only thing necessary for the functioning of the Spirit of Truth is entrance into the seventh psychic circle, which is something all “normal” humans do.  Then it becomes a matter of receptivity, the willingness to accept the gospel, Michael’s mission on earth.

   34:5.5 Though the Spirit of Truth is poured out upon all flesh, this spirit of the Son is almost wholly limited in function and power by man’s personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of the bestowal Son.

   Present what?  Present truth?  You don’t present truth, you live truth (which is why truth is a person) and it’s manifested as fruits of the spirit.  Anyone who thinks they’re presenting truth, is fooling him/herself.   That’s what organized religion does, it presents the one and only true truth.  Hogwash and malarky.

   To live the truth simply means allowing Jesus to live his life anew in your own life.  It means yielding the fruits of the spirit by staying connected to the living vine, who is the Spirit of Truth, the way to the Father.

   194:3.1 The chief mission of this outpoured spirit of the Father and the Son is to teach men about the truths of the Father’s love and the Son’s mercy. These are the truths of divinity which men can comprehend more fully than all the other divine traits of character. The Spirit of Truth is concerned primarily with the revelation of the Father’s spirit nature and the Son’s moral character. The Creator Son, in the flesh, revealed God to men; the Spirit of Truth, in the heart, reveals the Creator Son to men. When man yields the “fruits of the spirit” in his life, he is simply showing forth the traits which the Master manifested in his own earthly life. When Jesus was on earth, he lived his life as one personality — Jesus of Nazareth. As the indwelling spirit of the “new teacher,” the Master has, since Pentecost, been able to live his life anew in the experience of every truth-taught believer.

8. RE

   Richard E WarrenParticipant
   Mar 28, 2016, 1:38 PM

   Bonita wrote:

   Rick Warren wrote: I had to laugh on reading the new phrase you coined: Spirit of Fact

   You’re being facetious, right? That phrase was coined by Chris Halvorson then quoted and published by Nigel Nunn. Please don’t blame me for that piece of misinformation. I have my own mistakes to deal with.

   No, not you too?! But yes, I was sincere, just admiring the cleverness of it as a teaching tool, erroneously thinking you came up with ‘Spirit of Fact’.

   Rick Warren wrote: Once the Truth of God on Paradise and God dwelling within are discovered by a lowly human on Urantia, what is next? A single human can discover truth, but is the whole world ready? If it is, how best to present it? If it isn’t ready, should/can anything be done to make it ready?

   Is the whole world ready for what? For discovering truth? The whole world is already in the process of doing that. The Spirit of Truth has been poured out upon all flesh. The only thing necessary for the functioning of the Spirit of Truth is entrance into the seventh psychic circle, which is something all “normal” humans do. Then it becomes a matter of receptivity, the willingness to accept the gospel, Michael’s mission on earth.

   34:5.5 Though the Spirit of Truth is poured out upon all flesh, this spirit of the Son is almost wholly limited in function and power by man’s personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of the bestowal Son.

   Present what? Present truth? You don’t present truth, you live truth (which is why truth is a person) and it’s manifested as fruits of the spirit. Anyone who thinks they’re presenting truth, is fooling him/herself. That’s what organized religion does, it presents the one and only true truth. Hogwash and malarky.

   By present, I meant both speak and live the truth. In fact, speaking is an act, so speaking the truth qualifies as living it in my mind.

   To live the truth simply means allowing Jesus to live his life anew in your own life.

   There is nothing simple about it! Isn’t it rather the most difficult of human paths?

   It means yielding the fruits of the spirit by staying connected to the living vine, who is the Spirit of Truth, the way to the Father.

   194:3.1 …As the indwelling spirit of the “new teacher,” the Master has, since Pentecost, been able to live his life anew in the experience of every truth-taught believer.

   That truth is amazing all by itself, both Michael and the Father (and the Holy Spirit presumably) want to live their lives in and through us, spontaneously and limitlessly, which must be why they advise us to avoid making personal plans. Living the truth, once again, becomes a matter of capacity.

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   Pondering this quote about capacity and the spiritual approach to truth, I realized there is no other approach, except maybe a godless philosophy, no?

   …Spirituality enhances the ability to discover beauty in things, recognize truth in meanings, and discover goodness in values…. (1096:1) 100:2.4

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   Richard E Warren

9. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Mar 28, 2016, 2:19 PM

   Rick Warren wrote:  . . . just admiring the cleverness of it as a teaching tool

   A teaching tool for what?

   Rick Warren wrote: In fact, speaking is an act, so speaking the truth qualifies as living it in my mind.

   Well, you have to be careful there.  Speaking truth can get you into a little bit of trouble, just ask moderator 2.  You have to be discriminate with the truth, as you yourself have pointed out, and as is illustrated in this quote:

   180: 5.5 The golden rule, when divested of the superhuman insight of the Spirit of Truth, becomes nothing more than a rule of high ethical conduct. The golden rule, when literally interpreted, may become the instrument of great offense to one’s fellows. Without a spiritual discernment of the golden rule of wisdom you might reason that, since you are desirous that all men speak the full and frank truth of their minds to you, you should therefore fully and frankly speak the full thought of your mind to your fellow beings. Such an unspiritual interpretation of the golden rule might result in untold unhappiness and no end of sorrow Jesus did say that what comes out of a man’s mouth defiles him more than what goes in, or something like that, and that great men learn to control their tongues.  I don’t think speaking truth is useful unless it’s wedded to wisdom.  Still learning that, myself.

   Rick Warren wrote:  There is nothing simple about it! Isn’t it rather the most difficult of human paths?

   No.  His yoke is easy and his burden light.  Even little children can do it.  Only people who dissect and analyze truth have a difficult path because they turn the simple truth into something confusing and misleading (like the Spirit of Fact).

   195:5.2 Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed. Living truth teaches the truth seeker aright only when it is embraced in wholeness and as a living spiritual reality, not as a fact of material science or an inspiration of intervening art.

   Rick Warren wrote: Pondering this quote about capacity and the spiritual approach to truth, I realized there is no other approach, except maybe a godless philosophy, no?

   No other approach to what?  How can a godless philosophy be an approach to anything?  Not following you.  Are you saying that spirituality is the approach to truth, beauty and goodness?  Spirituality has to do with response to spiritual gravity, which is response to spiritual reality, right?  Therefore, maximum spirituality means maximum reality attainment (100:2.5). Spirituality, response to spiritual reality, is achieved through spiritual insight (71:4.14), and spiritual insight is God-consciousness (91:7.12).  So, a godless philosophy would get you as far away from spiritual reality as you can be, wouldn’t it? I don’t see how capacity for anything would be increased by a godless philosophy.  Maybe I’m not understanding your point?
10. RE

    Richard E WarrenParticipant
    Mar 29, 2016, 10:22 AM

    Bonita wrote:

    Rick Warren wrote: . . . just admiring the cleverness of it as a teaching tool

    A teaching tool for what?

    For teaching the Spirit of TRUTH.

    Rick Warren wrote: In fact, speaking is an act, so speaking the truth qualifies as living it in my mind.

    Well, you have to be careful there. Speaking truth can get you into a little bit of trouble, just ask moderator 2. You have to be discriminate with the truth, as you yourself have pointed out, and as is illustrated in this quote:

    180: 5.5 The golden rule, when divested of the superhuman insight of the Spirit of Truth, becomes nothing more than a rule of high ethical conduct. The golden rule, when literally interpreted, may become the instrument of great offense to one’s fellows. Without a spiritual discernment of the golden rule of wisdom you might reason that, since you are desirous that all men speak the full and frank truth of their minds to you, you should therefore fully and frankly speak the full thought of your mind to your fellow beings. Such an unspiritual interpretation of the golden rule might result in untold unhappiness and no end of sorrow Jesus did say that what comes out of a man’s mouth defiles him more than what goes in, or something like that, and that great men learn to control their tongues. I don’t think speaking truth is useful unless it’s wedded to wisdom. Still learning that, myself.

    Rick Warren wrote: There is nothing simple about it! Isn’t it rather the most difficult of human paths?

    No. His yoke is easy and his burden light. Even little children can do it. Only people who dissect and analyze truth have a difficult path because they turn the simple truth into something confusing and misleading (like the Spirit of Fact).

    195:5.2 Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed. Living truth teaches the truth seeker aright only when it is embraced in wholeness and as a living spiritual reality, not as a fact of material science or an inspiration of intervening art.

    Rick Warren wrote: Pondering this quote about capacity and the spiritual approach to truth, I realized there is no other approach, except maybe a godless philosophy, no?

    No other approach to what? How can a godless philosophy be an approach to anything? Not following you. Are you saying that spirituality is the approach to truth, beauty and goodness? Spirituality has to do with response to spiritual gravity, which is response to spiritual reality, right? Therefore, maximum spirituality means maximum reality attainment (100:2.5). Spirituality, response to spiritual reality, is achieved through spiritual insight (71:4.14), and spiritual insight is God-consciousness (91:7.12). So, a godless philosophy would get you as far away from spiritual reality as you can be, wouldn’t it? I don’t see how capacity for anything would be increased by a godless philosophy. Maybe I’m not understanding your point?

    Godless philosophy is secularism’s approach to explaining reality, that’s all I meant.

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    Richard E Warren

11. RE

    Richard E WarrenParticipant
    Mar 29, 2016, 10:50 AM

    Truth is one of the three “Transcendentals” in classic philosophy, a special grouping.

    From Wikipedia:

    The three terms Beauty, Goodness, Truth form a separate subgroup within the general family of transcendentals and their development can be considered separately. Although associated in particular with Platonism the ideas may have an earlier origin, appearing for example in the Bhagavad Gita to describe “words which are good and beautiful and true”. [7]
    

    Source/more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendentals#Beauty.2C_Goodness.2C_Truth

    There’s good reason to believe Truth, Beauty and Goodness were taught in Dalamatia, before the rebellion, in the Gardens by Adam and Eve–to the more advanced students. Then came the Greeks, who thought about truth, revered beauty, but neglected goodness. It was Socrates, Plato and Aristotle who history remembers as the big thinkers of yore, alongside many less well known. And in the early renaissance the Florentines resurrected Greek philosophy and patched it onto Christianity. At some point the Catholic Church permanently adopted Truth, Beauty and Goodness into its body of religious doctrine.

    Philosophy has taken many turns, rises, and dips since the 1400’s, but Truth, Beauty and Goodness has survived. Last year modern philosopher Steve McIntosh published:  The Presence of the Infinite: The Spiritual Experience of Beauty, Truth, and Goodness (Quest Books).
    

    On my first reading of the UB, I noticed the TB&G phrase keep appearing, but not until ten years ago did I dig them all out. The authors used them in 84 paragraphs across the book, with some being used two or three times in one paragraph. Jesus used them several times.

    The main pillar of the three transcendentals has to be Truth. None of the three is indispensable to philosophy or reality, but Truth sets up a universal standard that Goodness and Beauty might be realized alongside Truth. This standard establishes a Central Truth, to which all else is related and relative.

    Now I’m wondering, what all does such a universal Standard of Truth imply, personally, collectively, and cosmically?!
    

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    Richard E Warren

12. G

    GeneParticipant
    Mar 29, 2016, 12:51 PM

    Now I’m wondering, what all does such a universal Standard of Truth imply, personally, collectively, and cosmically?!

     

    For or me it implies the source, and the source being available and accessable to all as a reality and a destiny that our minds can come to understand and be comfortable with because the source is a person, like us.

     

13. RE

    Richard E WarrenParticipant
    Mar 29, 2016, 12:58 PM

    Gene wrote:

    Now I’m wondering, what all does such a universal Standard of Truth imply, personally, collectively, and cosmically?! For or me it implies the source, and the source being available and accessable to all as a reality and a destiny that our minds can come to understand and be comfortable with because the source is a person, like us.

    Nicely stated, all encompassing, even includes us!

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    Richard E Warren

14. G

    GeneParticipant
    Mar 29, 2016, 1:05 PM

    What say you about how faith may fit into all of this TBG stuff?

15. RE

    Richard E WarrenParticipant
    Mar 29, 2016, 1:18 PM

    Gene wrote:

    What say you about how faith may fit into all of this TBG stuff?

    Hmm….Isn’t faith founded in the truth of God, validated by goodness, enhanced by beauty?

    There’s this from Melchizedek:

    …The faith acceptance of the truth of God enables man to escape from the circumscribed confines of material limitations and affords him a rational hope of achieving safe conduct from the material realm, whereon is death, to the spiritual realm, wherein is life eternal…. (1116:5) 101:10.4

    .

    …When you are finally mustered into the actual spirit world, then will the assurances of pure spirit insight operate in the place of faith and truth or, rather, in conjunction with, and superimposed upon, these former techniques of personality assurance…. (1111:4) 101:5.14

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    Richard E Warren

16. B

    BonitaParticipant
    Mar 29, 2016, 1:37 PM

    Rick Warren wrote: The main pillar of the three transcendentals has to be Truth. None of the three is indispensable to philosophy or reality, but Truth sets up a universal standard that Goodness and Beauty might be realized alongside Truth. This standard establishes a Central Truth, to which all else is related and relative. Now I’m wondering, what all does such a universal Standard of Truth imply, personally, collectively, and cosmically?!

    The central truth, the so-called standard of truth you refer to, exists only on Paradise.  We critters out here in the worlds of time and space can only hope for a relative form of truth.  The final and divine truth found on Paradise is perfect truth (supertruth); it is uniform and universal.  We can never attain perfect truth because it is an existential reality and we are experiential, imperfect creatures.  Our form of truth approaches perfection as we ascend toward Paradise, but it is a perfected form of truth that we attain.  Then there is more; after discovering the perfected truth of the Supreme, we seek the absonite level of truth evolving in God the Ultimate.

    2:7.3 Divine truth, final truth, is uniform and universal, but the story of things spiritual, as it is told by numerous individuals hailing from various spheres, may sometimes vary in details owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience.

    159:4.8 Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.

    117:1.7 Truth, beauty, and goodness are correlated in the ministry of the Spirit, the grandeur of Paradise, the mercy of the Son, and the experience of the Supreme. God the Supreme is truth, beauty, and goodness, for these concepts of divinity represent finite maximums of ideational experience. The eternal sources of these triune qualities of divinity are on superfinite levels, but a creature could only conceive of such sources as supertruth, superbeauty, and supergoodness.

    115:3.19 The final penetration of the truth, beauty, and goodness of the Supreme Being could only open up to the progressing creature those absonite qualities of ultimate divinity which lie beyond the concept levels of truth, beauty, and goodness.

    Fortunately for us, we have the source of final and perfect Truth living in our heads, the Thought Adjuster.  We also have the revealer of living truth toiling in our souls.  What does that mean personally, collectively and cosmically?  It means we’re supposed to follow our inner leader to Paradise and back.  We’re supposed to become perfected finaliters and work towards evolution of the Supreme, a manifestation of living perfection in the experiential worlds of time and space, then seek the Ultimate and beyond.  All we have to do is follow Michael, who is the way, the truth and the life, our loving shepherd.

    56:6.3 The material-minded creatures of the evolutionary worlds of the seven superuniverses can comprehend Deity unity only as it is evolving in this power-personality synthesis of the Supreme Being. On any level of existence God cannot exceed the conceptual capacity of the beings who live on such a level. Mortal man must, through the recognition of truth, the appreciation of beauty, and the worship of goodness, evolve the recognition of a God of love and then progress through ascending deity levels to the comprehension of the Supreme. Deity, having been thus grasped as unified in power, can then be personalized in spirit to creature understanding and attainment.

    21:6.4 Just as the Deity of the Supreme is actualizing by virtue of experiential service, so are the Creator Sons achieving the personal realization of the Paradise-divinity potentials bound up in their unfathomable natures. When on Urantia, Christ Michael once said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” And we believe that in eternity the Michaels are literally destined to be “the way, the truth, and the life,” ever blazing the path for all universe personalities as it leads from supreme divinity through ultimate absonity to eternal deity finality.

17. RE

    Richard E WarrenParticipant
    Mar 29, 2016, 2:10 PM

    Bonita wrote:

    Rick Warren wrote: The main pillar of the three transcendentals has to be Truth. None of the three is indispensable to philosophy or reality, but Truth sets up a universal standard that Goodness and Beauty might be realized alongside Truth. This standard establishes a Central Truth, to which all else is related and relative. Now I’m wondering, what all does such a universal Standard of Truth imply, personally, collectively, and cosmically?!

    The central truth, the so-called standard of truth you refer to, exists only on Paradise. We critters out here in the worlds of time and space can only hope for a relative form of truth. The final and divine truth found on Paradise is perfect truth (supertruth); it is uniform and universal. We can never attain perfect truth because it is an existential reality and we are experiential, imperfect creatures. Our form of truth approaches perfection as we ascend toward Paradise, but it is a perfected form of truth that we attain. Then there is more; after discovering the perfected truth of the Supreme, we seek the absonite level of truth evolving in God the Ultimate.

    2:7.3 Divine truth, final truth, is uniform and universal, but the story of things spiritual, as it is told by numerous individuals hailing from various spheres, may sometimes vary in details owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience.

    159:4.8 Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.

    117:1.7 Truth, beauty, and goodness are correlated in the ministry of the Spirit, the grandeur of Paradise, the mercy of the Son, and the experience of the Supreme. God the Supreme is truth, beauty, and goodness, for these concepts of divinity represent finite maximums of ideational experience. The eternal sources of these triune qualities of divinity are on superfinite levels, but a creature could only conceive of such sources as supertruth, superbeauty, and supergoodness.

    115:3.19 The final penetration of the truth, beauty, and goodness of the Supreme Being could only open up to the progressing creature those absonite qualities of ultimate divinity which lie beyond the concept levels of truth, beauty, and goodness.

    Fortunately for us, we have the source of final and perfect Truth living in our heads, the Thought Adjuster. We also have the revealer of living truth toiling in our souls. What does that mean personally, collectively and cosmically? It means we’re supposed to follow our inner leader to Paradise and back. We’re supposed to become perfected finaliters and work towards evolution of the Supreme, a manifestation of living perfection in the experiential worlds of time and space, then seek the Ultimate and beyond. All we have to do is follow Michael, who is the way, the truth and the life, our loving shepherd.

    56:6.3 The material-minded creatures of the evolutionary worlds of the seven superuniverses can comprehend Deity unity only as it is evolving in this power-personality synthesis of the Supreme Being. On any level of existence God cannot exceed the conceptual capacity of the beings who live on such a level. Mortal man must, through the recognition of truth, the appreciation of beauty, and the worship of goodness, evolve the recognition of a God of love and then progress through ascending deity levels to the comprehension of the Supreme. Deity, having been thus grasped as unified in power, can then be personalized in spirit to creature understanding and attainment. 21:6.4 Just as the Deity of the Supreme is actualizing by virtue of experiential service, so are the Creator Sons achieving the personal realization of the Paradise-divinity potentials bound up in their unfathomable natures. When on Urantia, Christ Michael once said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” And we believe that in eternity the Michaels are literally destined to be “the way, the truth, and the life,” ever blazing the path for all universe personalities as it leads from supreme divinity through ultimate absonity to eternal deity finality.

    Thanks Bonita, was hoping you would bring in the big guns (and so much more)…Supertruth, superbeauty, supergoodness! From critterhood to the Absolute, Truth enlightens, loves, and leads.

    Truth has so many close relatives out here in time and space, doesn’t it? Like wisdom, knowledge, reason, insight, intuition, logic, fact, reality, faith too. And so many distant relatives: error, mistake, inaccuracy, miscalculation, blunder, oversight, fallacy, misconception, delusion, boo-boo, goof

    .

    .

    Richard E Warren

18. B

    BonitaParticipant
    Mar 29, 2016, 2:42 PM

    Rick Warren wrote:

    Truth has so many close relatives out here in time and space, doesn’t it? Like wisdom . . .

    Hmmmm.  I don’t know about close relatives . . .  actually more like cousins.

    Wisdom and truth are on two different levels of reality.  Recall the bit about the reality responses of the cosmic mind?  Wisdom is at the level of duty, the moral and philosophic realm of mental reality.  Truth is at the level of worship, the highest insight of the cosmic mind, which is the realm of the soul.

    Wisdom is an adjutant level of mind function; truth is a soul level of supermind (soul) function.  They are related only when they become unified by personality.

    180:5.2 Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality. Truth exists only on high spiritual levels of the realization of divinity and the consciousness of communion with God. You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct. When you undertake the human formulation of divine truth, it speedily dies. The post-mortem salvage of imprisoned truth, even at best, can eventuate only in the realization of a peculiar form of intellectualized glorified wisdom. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind.

    180:5.3 Intelligence grows out of a material existence which is illuminated by the presence of the cosmic mind. Wisdom comprises the consciousness of knowledge elevated to new levels of meaning and activated by the presence of the universe endowment of the adjutant of wisdom. Truth is a spiritual reality value experienced only by spirit-endowed beings who function upon supermaterial levels of universe consciousness, and who, after the realization of truth, permit its spirit of activation to live and reign within their souls.

19. B

    BonitaParticipant
    Mar 29, 2016, 3:24 PM

    Gene wrote:

    What say you about how faith may fit into all of this TBG stuff?

    Well, since this topic is about truth, how about faith and truth?  Consider this quote:

    p1141:5 103:9.7 Faith most willingly carries reason along as far as reason can go and then goes on with wisdom to the full philosophic limit; and then it dares to launch out upon the limitless and never-ending universe journey in the sole company of TRUTH.

    What they are saying here is that the adjutant mind thinks as best it can with its reason (science).  Then, when utilizing the highest adjutant, the spirit of wisdom, the mind breaches the gateway to the soul.  When wisdom has done all it can, when it has reached its full philosophic limit of adjutant thinking, it dares to think with the soul (a.k.a. soul-consciousness).  Once you start thinking with the supermind at the soul level, you’re thinking in the soul company of TRUTH (the Spirit of Truth).  Bingo!  That means you’ve begun to do what the revelators have asked:

    p2097:2 196:3.3 The great challenge to modern man is to achieve better communication with the divine Monitor that dwells within the human mind. Man’s greatest adventure in the flesh consists in the well-balanced and sane effort to advance the borders of self-consciousness out through the dim realms of embryonic soul-consciousness in a wholehearted effort to reach the borderland of spirit-consciousness—contact with the divine presence. Such an experience constitutes God-consciousness, an experience mightily confirmative of the pre-existent truth of the religious experience of knowing God. Such spirit-consciousness is the equivalent of the knowledge of the actuality of sonship with God. Otherwise, the assurance of sonship is the experience of faith.

    As noted in the last sentence of that quote, anything below the level of the soul is achieved through faith.  Truth is a soul level of reality.  It does not require faith.  That sounds almost blasphemous, doesn’t it?  Faith is what carries you to truth; it carries you to the gateway of the soul where Truth lives. Truth is inconcussible (118:3.3), he’s an assurance, a certainty because truth is reality.  Faith is the hope of the possibility of discovering truth (reality).  The recognition of truth in the soul is an experience that gives certitude because Truth can be known and known now!  Truth can be acted out and lived!  Recognition of truth is a supermaterial reality phenomenon that is unshakable, meaning faith has already played its role in discovery.  What is left then is allowing the Spirit of Truth to interpret (relationship) and the personality to choose. Discover, recognize, interpret and choose, that’s all you can do, and all you need to do.  Faith and trust start the process.

    102:2.4 Knowledge is an eternal quest; always are you learning, but never are you able to arrive at the full knowledge of absolute truth. In knowledge alone there can never be absolute certainty, only increasing probability of approximation; but the religious soul of spiritual illumination knows, and knows now. And yet this profound and positive certitude does not lead such a sound-minded religionist to take any less interest in the ups and downs of the progress of human wisdom, which is bound up on its material end with the developments of slow-moving science.

20. G

    GeneParticipant
    Mar 29, 2016, 4:51 PM

    So maybe faith is the feed forward and truth the feedback

    in scientific terms that is

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