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The Reality of Religious Experience – Paper 103

230 posts · 8 participants · started Aug 1, 2018, 10:07 PM

BradlyParticipant
Dec 27, 2018, 10:25 PM
A fascinating discussion about the nature/nurture aspects of character and the racial related issues thereto all of which goes to The Reality of Religious Experience….especially regarding those vestiges of racial influence which go with us to the Mansion Worlds (all our remaining or lingering animal vestiges to be eradicated by the end of our sojourn on World 2 we are told). Interesting comment above about the fruits of the Spirit by Bonita. I remembered this related quote by the Master:

5. Lesson Regarding Contentment

(1674.3) 149:5.1 When Jesus was visiting the group of evangelists working under the supervision of Simon Zelotes, during their evening conference Simon asked the Master: “Why are some persons so much more happy and contented than others? Is contentment a matter of religious experience?” Among other things, Jesus said in answer to Simon’s question:

(1674.4) 149:5.2 “Simon, some persons are naturally more happy than others. Much, very much, depends upon the willingness of man to be led and directed by the Father’s spirit which lives within him. Have you not read in the Scriptures the words of the wise man, ‘The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts’? And also that such spirit-led mortals say: ‘The lines are fallen to me in pleasant places; yes, I have a goodly heritage.’ ‘A little that a righteous man has is better than the riches of many wicked,’ for ‘a good man shall be satisfied from within himself.’ ‘A merry heart makes a cheerful countenance and is a continual feast. Better is a little with the reverence of the Lord than great treasure and trouble therewith. Better is a dinner of herbs where love is than a fatted ox and hatred therewith. Better is a little with righteousness than great revenues without rectitude.’ ‘A merry heart does good like a medicine.’ ‘Better is a handful with composure than a superabundance with sorrow and vexation of spirit.’

(1674.5) 149:5.3 “Much of man’s sorrow is born of the disappointment of his ambitions and the wounding of his pride. Although men owe a duty to themselves to make the best of their lives on earth, having thus sincerely exerted themselves, they should cheerfully accept their lot and exercise ingenuity in making the most of that which has fallen to their hands. All too many of man’s troubles take origin in the fear soil of his own natural heart. ‘The wicked flee when no man pursues.’ ‘The wicked are like the troubled sea, for it cannot rest, but its waters cast up mire and dirt; there is no peace, says God, for the wicked.’

(1674.6) 149:5.4 “Seek not, then, for false peace and transient joy but rather for the assurance of faith and the sureties of divine sonship which yield composure, contentment, and supreme joy in the spirit.”

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Dec 28, 2018, 1:06 PM
(1674.4) 149:5.2 “Simon, some persons are naturally more happy than others.

I think this is yet another quote supporting the fact that character is inherited from DNA. Some persons inherit from nature a happier, more content viewpoint, or attitude toward life. Somewhere in TUB it tells us that Andonite babies are more docile and easier to raise than babies with a greater Andite inheritance (84:7.21), another indicator of genetic contribution to character. But I guess a lot depends upon how the word happy is defined. Some people who are not happily content are more adventurous, inquisitive and courageous, which can also be good things.

Bradly wrote:

Interesting comment above about the fruits of the Spirit by Bonita.

Yeah, there are tons of quotes referring to fruits of the spirit as character fruits. I didn’t think it was necessary to reference or post all of them, but here are a few in addition to 34:7.1 which I already posted above:

140:4.7 “By their fruits you shall know them.” Personality is basically changeless; that which changes — grows — is the moral character.

152:6.3 “You see, my children, the appeal to human feelings is transitory and utterly disappointing; the exclusive appeal to the intellect of man is likewise empty and barren; it is only by making your appeal to the spirit which lives within the human mind that you can hope to achieve lasting success and accomplish those marvelous transformations of human character that are presently shown in the abundant yielding of the genuine fruits of the spirit in the daily lives of all who are thus delivered from the darkness of doubt by the birth of the spirit into the light of faith — the kingdom of heaven.”

194:3.1 The chief mission of this outpoured spirit of the Father and the Son is to teach men about the truths of the Father’s love and the Son’s mercy. These are the truths of divinity which men can comprehend more fully than all the other divine traits of character. The Spirit of Truth is concerned primarily with the revelation of the Father’s spirit nature and the Son’s moral character. The Creator Son, in the flesh, revealed God to men; the Spirit of Truth, in the heart, reveals the Creator Son to men. When man yields the “fruits of the spirit” in his life, he is simply showing forth the traits which the Master manifested in his own earthly life.

156:5.1-2 On this Wednesday afternoon, in the course of his address, Jesus first told his followers the story of the white lily which rears its pure and snowy head high into the sunshine while its roots are grounded in the slime and muck of the darkened soil beneath. “Likewise,” said he, “mortal man, while he has his roots of origin and being in the animal soil of human nature, can by faith raise his spiritual nature up into the sunlight of heavenly truth and actually bear the noble fruits of the spirit. . . . Your spirit nature — the jointly created soul — is a living growth, but the mind and morals of the individual are the soil from which these higher manifestations of human development and divine destiny must spring. The soil of the evolving soul is human and material, but the destiny of this combined creature of mind and spirit is spiritual and divine.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 28, 2018, 5:39 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote:

For example, regarding that enhanced “righteous indignation” you mentioned, here’s one idea. From Mary, Jesus inherits an enhanced susceptibility to, and affinity for, courage, counsel and (6th-adjutant) zeal; when courage and counsel get fired up by zeal… bingo, Righteous Indignation! Of course in the case of Jesus, his wisdom more than “equaled his zeal (140:7.7)” !

I’ve been thinking about your idea. Doesn’t indignation require a sense of fairness? Isn’t it a reaction to perceived injustice? I’m not seeing either of those character qualities as being entirely adjutant derived, particularly the lower adjutants. Animals do not have a sense of fairness, but they do have pecking orders which I think originate from self-preservation instincts. In humans, the spirit of courage is supposed to be the secret to character acquirement through spiritual bravery. Isn’t there supposed to be spiritual involvement then? – especially if the indignation is to be righteous? I’m also not following why zeal is assigned to the spirit of worship. I guess you mean passionate devotion? And yes I agree, worship on its own is directionless. Worship needs wisdom – meditative and experiential thinking – to admonish it. (85:7.3)

Personally, I think a sense of fairness has to originate in the two higher adjutants who are capable of exposing the mind to something of more value as a comparison. Wisdom is essential to this. I don’t think it’s possible to judge something unfair or unjust unless one is able to perceive that a more fair or more just potential is available. That, in my opinion, requires wisdom.

But then there’s the righteous part to that. I think one must discover a loftier, unprejudiced and noble viewpoint capable of recognizing a more valuable, stable and ideal option in order for indignation to be considered righteous. Wouldn’t it need an actual source of righteousness for that? Isn’t there only one source of true righteousness, of divine thought? Doesn’t righteous indignation have something to do with treating others the way God would treat them, the highest level of the golden rule? Don’t you have to know God before you can appreciate something like that and then get bent out of shape when it’s being violated?

Well anyway, I think there is a vast difference between anger and indignation and an even greater difference between indignation and righteous indignation. Just my opinion though.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 1, 2019, 6:11 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote:

To clarify, I’m thinking of these susceptibilities and affinities as emotionally-backed motivations (e-motivations?). Somehow the Life Carriers evolve — into their sequence of animals — susceptibility to adjutant motivation, mediated by emotion.

Well, we do know that evolution is prodded along by suffering, the hammer and anvil thing. But is it the suffering itself or the emotional response to suffering that causes evolution? There’s this quote to ponder:

(951.3) 86:2.1 Anxiety was a natural state of the savage mind. When men and women fall victims to excessive anxiety, they are simply reverting to the natural estate of their far-distant ancestors; and when anxiety becomes actually painful, it inhibits activity and unfailingly institutes evolutionary changes and biologic adaptations. Pain and suffering are essential to progressive evolution.

The way I read this is that pain itself puts evolution into motion rather than the emotions which lead to pain. I agree, emotions do play a role, but I think they are the result of the experience of living this life with all its anguish – we are, after all, told that our anxieties are part of the divine plan (23:2.12). But if anguish is the most important emotion, then we should all be utterly miserable and Jesus would have been blowin’ smoke when he said, “Fear not”. Somehow that doesn’t ring true.

Of course every person or race inherits a certain emotional pattern of reaction to the experience of life’s anxieties, but I don’t see those patterns as primary motivators. Yes, emotions can and do motivate people but not always in a beneficial and progressive way, so they can’t be the principal cause for evolution. I’m not sure if I were designing DNA meant to evolve into a human being capable of eternal survival that I would have its progress motivated predominantly by emotion.

Perhaps an increased sensitivity to the pain of anguish and suffering would better serve? Or even better, the capacity to imagine more creative ways to deal with the pain of living? Higher thinking? Wisdom? Mind ministry is defined to include the emotional life “. . . reaching upward through worship and wisdom to the spirit level.”(0:5.8) I take that to mean the emotional life is driven toward spirit by mind ministry and not the other way around.

Another thing to consider is this capacity for creative imagination. We know that mind ministry directs overall evolution in such a way that thought, or mind, becomes ” . . . increasingly adjustive, creative, co-ordinative, and dominative” (65:6.7) over matter. And this dominance of the mind is superphysical, meaning it’s more than chemicals and hormones. In fact, we’re told mind ministry is not directly involved with physical evolution, but only with mind evolution. However, the goal of mind evolution is to dominate physical reality, while at the same time, allowing itself to become dominated by spiritual reality.

Yet we are also told that gland chemistry determines spirit receptivity (49:5.19) which can be confusing. There seems to be a pattern of evolving physical capacity first in order to increase mind dominance which leads to spirit creativity and dominance. So, I still think that racial differences have more to do with varying capacities for mind dominance, while at the same time providing varying receptivity reactions to imaginative creativity, which is fundamentally a spiritual experience.

But I admit that my thoughts on this subject are in flux. I keep going round and round on this, but it might be due to the elliptical symmetry of all reality thingy. Lots to consider.
BradlyParticipant
Jan 8, 2019, 5:29 PM
I am so very grateful for the detailed discussion on the evolutionary religious experience as influenced by the adjutants and the racial inherencies and tendencies and how those persist beyond the purely material life on the worlds of origin. Each of the races on each world are instruments of a certain form of specialization of tendencies and responses I think which are anticipated to contribute to the resulting amalgamation and anticipated bio uplift of Adamic blood.

The evolutionary process can appear so impersonal and so unfair on the surface of its examination considering that some seem so less favored in circumstance and others more favored…by racial tendencies but also by era and the forms of suffering endured (from disease and carnivores and cannibals to war and slavery and genocide) as measured by the material life we live. But I am heartened by the Revelation’s teachings about the briefness of such material suffering and the reality that no one truly suffers any lack of opportunity for spirit ministry and response no matter the racial or social or personal circumstances and sources or severity of personal suffering.

5:1.5 (63.3) However Urantia mortals may differ in their intellectual, social, economic, and even moral opportunities and endowments, forget not that their spiritual endowment is uniform and unique. They all enjoy the same divine presence of the gift from the Father, and they are all equally privileged to seek intimate personal communion with this indwelling spirit of divine origin, while they may all equally choose to accept the uniform spiritual leading of these Mystery Monitors.

5:1.6 (63.4) If mortal man is wholeheartedly spiritually motivated, unreservedly consecrated to the doing of the Father’s will, then, since he is so certainly and so effectively spiritually endowed by the indwelling and divine Adjuster, there cannot fail to materialize in that individual’s experience the sublime consciousness of knowing God and the supernal assurance of surviving for the purpose of finding God by the progressive experience of becoming more and more like him.

5:1.7 (63.5) Man is spiritually indwelt by a surviving Thought Adjuster. If such a human mind is sincerely and spiritually motivated, if such a human soul desires to know God and become like him, honestly wants to do the Father’s will, there exists no negative influence of mortal deprivation nor positive power of possible interference which can prevent such a divinely motivated soul from securely ascending to the portals of Paradise.

Me here: The reality that we can have an effective and transformative religious experience which delivers each of us the opportunity for eternal adventure and growth regardless of our material realities and our ignorance of universe reality and the construction of completely false and fictional realities is absolutely astounding to me!!! That faith and truth can penetrate and overcome such depths of ignorance and error and depravity and suffering and primitivism and superstition in the material life to deliver happiness and contentment and peace is amazing!! No matter our material origins or circumstances we may each enjoy this phenomenon and experience and enjoy the sublime assurance of God’s love and embrace.

Next quote in our study of Paper 103 – The Reality of Religious Experience

103:9.5 (1141.3) Although religious experience is a purely spiritual subjective phenomenon, such an experience embraces a positive and living faith attitude toward the highest realms of universe objective reality. The ideal of religious philosophy is such a faith-trust as would lead man unqualifiedly to depend upon the absolute love of the infinite Father of the universe of universes. Such a genuine religious experience far transcends the philosophic objectification of idealistic desire; it actually takes salvation for granted and concerns itself only with learning and doing the will of the Father in Paradise. The earmarks of such a religion are: faith in a supreme Deity, hope of eternal survival, and love, especially of one’s fellows.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Jan 9, 2019, 1:08 PM
Quote 103:9.5 states the ideal of religious philosophy takes salvation for granted. Kinda takes the punch out of the original sin argument doesn’t it? It also means that those who claim only a few survive don’t espouse an ideal of religious philosophy, just a plain old ordinary, concrete idea of religious philosophy.

So then . . . what is this “philosophic objectification of idealistic desire” all about?
BradlyParticipant
Jan 13, 2019, 2:31 PM

Bonita wrote:

Quote 103:9.5 states the ideal of religious philosophy takes salvation for granted. Kinda takes the punch out of the original sin argument doesn’t it? It also means that those who claim only a few survive don’t espouse an ideal of religious philosophy, just a plain old ordinary, concrete idea of religious philosophy.

So then . . . what is this “philosophic objectification of idealistic desire” all about?

103:9.5 (1141.3) Although religious experience is a purely spiritual subjective phenomenon, such an experience embraces a positive and living faith attitude toward the highest realms of universe objective reality. The ideal of religious philosophy is such a faith-trust as would lead man unqualifiedly to depend upon the absolute love of the infinite Father of the universe of universes. Such a genuine religious experience far transcends the philosophic objectification of idealistic desire; it actually takes salvation for granted and concerns itself only with learning and doing the will of the Father in Paradise. The earmarks of such a religion are: faith in a supreme Deity, hope of eternal survival, and love, especially of one’s fellows.

Isn’t philosophy a perspective of reality or the subjective lens through which we view it? There is a metaphysical component that is or may be delivered by subjective idealisms that is not experiential or genuine or certain as is faith and truth. What is “philosophic objectification”? and what is “idealistic desire”? compared to “the highest realms of universe objective reality”?

How much do we truly “depend upon the absolute love of the infinite Father” in our daily life? What is our certainty of that love and how does it affect us in our daily life? For such certainty of such love changes us and delivers the earmarks noted and the fruits of the Spirit.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
AndréParticipant
Jan 13, 2019, 5:20 PM
G’day everyone,

Very interesting reading yours posts.

Race is a protected characteristic that refers to an individual’s cultural, color, nationality and ethnic or geographic origins.

Genetic diversity has characterized human survival.

Humans are humans, we are all one species. Racials’s differences wouldn’t be harmonize solely by humans will. Remember unity, not uniformity. If society created the problem, society has to take it on itself to fix it.

A person’s race must be related to intellectual, spiritual, and moral qualities that they inherited.

^84:8.3 ^(942.4) The violet race introduced a new and only imperfectly realized characteristic into the experience of humankind—the play instinct coupled with the sense of humor.

The social classification will attribute and recognize a particularity a sense of humour to Britishs.

The scientific classification of human racial types is based on certain combinations of fixed, inherited, as far as possible measurable and visually identifiable traits.

Originally, we were used to delineate biological races.

Races are an intended factor to eventually blended in on single race.

Traits of characters if not unified, harmonized are definitely corrected, enhanced in mansions worlds.

DNA’s clusters aren’t invariant, constant, fix, stable aggregates.

As an example; Cain as a 50% base heredity had came to asked for spiritual help and guidance, and when he honestly sought divine assistance, an Adjuster indwelt him. 76:2.8

Our eldery brother show us the way in 156:5.5.

In 91:6.2 through spirituals influences, spiritual’s search, character infaillibly change.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 13, 2019, 7:43 PM

Bradly wrote:

. . . what is “idealistic desire”? . . .

I thought that had to do with hunger for perfection aroused by the Thought Adjuster within the soul (102:1.6). I think the word idealistic has to do with perfection and the word desire has to do with the inborn drive to become perfected.

(737.2) 65:6.2 There is original endowment of adaptation in living things and beings. In every living plant or animal cell, in every living organism — material or spiritual — there is an insatiable craving for the attainment of ever-increasing perfection of environmental adjustment, organismal adaptation, and augmented life realization. These interminable efforts of all living things evidence the existence within them of an innate striving for perfection.

Wouldn’t such an inborn desire or striving be an entirely subjective experience, an experience totally dependent upon the individual’s inner perspective and feelings which can be too deep for words? The thing that makes such an inner experience objectively real is the intimate personality-to-personality contact of creature and Creator through the Father’s personality circuit in the soul. Otherwise, all attempts to objectify that experience are left to the philosophic realm, the intervening domain where the human intellect strives to make sense of it.

Bradly wrote:

What is “philosophic objectification”?

Here’s my spin on it: This is what happens when the human mind takes a transcendent religious experience, which “. . . is a purely spiritual subjective phenomenon,” and attempts to objectify it, or make sense of it in concrete, materially comprehensible philosophical terms. I think this is where metaphysics creeps in. Yet despite all the errors of philosophical objectification, quote 103:9.5 tells us that the soul continues to desire and strive perfection through faith-trust in its perceptible ideal – the living God within it. This eternal relationship, personality-to-personality, is what the soul depends upon, ” . . . the absolute love of the infinite Father of the universe of universes.” [Note the reference to Father, a person, and the source of the personality circuit.]

And the soul will do this in and of itself. It will embark on its eternal journey of idealistic desire in the sole company of TRUTH (103:9.7), leaving behind the objectifying, philosophical material mind which continuously wrestles with this level of reality because it is lacking in mota, or morontia sensitivity. Truth is a morontia reality only perceived in the soul. (130:4.10) And the Spirit of Truth, who just happens to be a person, is also the spirit of idealistic beauty.

155:6.11 The spirit which my Father and I shall send into the world is not only the Spirit of Truth but also the spirit of idealistic beauty.
BradlyParticipant
Jan 14, 2019, 4:14 PM
103:9.6 (1141.4) When theology masters religion, religion dies; it becomes a doctrine instead of a life. The mission of theology is merely to facilitate the self-consciousness of personal spiritual experience. Theology constitutes the religious effort to define, clarify, expound, and justify the experiential claims of religion, which, in the last analysis, can be validated only by living faith. In the higher philosophy of the universe, wisdom, like reason, becomes allied to faith. Reason, wisdom, and faith are man’s highest human attainments. Reason introduces man to the world of facts, to things; wisdom introduces him to a world of truth, to relationships; faith initiates him into a world of divinity, spiritual experience.

103:9.7 (1141.5) Faith most willingly carries reason along as far as reason can go and then goes on with wisdom to the full philosophic limit; and then it dares to launch out upon the limitless and never-ending universe journey in the sole company of TRUTH.

Me here: I think 9.6 is telling us that doctrine, creed, and theology are substitutes for the living of one’s religion by the making of sincere choices based on experience and personal growth in truth and knowledge and wisdom. To do or say exactly the same thing over and over in exactly the same circumstances (theology) does not rely upon reason or thinking and is not progressive and cannot deliver wisdom or actual religious experience…the very purpose and goal of time and life in time….the perfecting of imperfection requires adjustments and responsiveness to outcomes by experience which theologies do not provide for or encourage. Jesus was so spontaneous and reflexive in his religious responses to circumstance and situation. It is our motives and intentions which deliver such a personalized response, not rigid theologies and predetermined actions or reactions.

196:0.4 In the Master’s life on Urantia, this and all other worlds of the local creation discover a new and higher type of religion, religion based on personal spiritual relations with the Universal Father and wholly validated by the supreme authority of genuine personal experience. This living faith of Jesus was more than an intellectual reflection, and it was not a mystic meditation.

196:0.5 Theology may fix, formulate, define, and dogmatize faith, but in the human life of Jesus faith was personal, living, original, spontaneous, and purely spiritual. This faith was not reverence for tradition nor a mere intellectual belief which he held as a sacred creed, but rather a sublime experience and a profound conviction which securely held him. His faith was so real and all-encompassing that it absolutely swept away any spiritual doubts and effectively destroyed every conflicting desire. Nothing was able to tear him away from the spiritual anchorage of this fervent, sublime, and undaunted faith. Even in the face of apparent defeat or in the throes of disappointment and threatening despair, he calmly stood in the divine presence free from fear and fully conscious of spiritual invincibility. Jesus enjoyed the invigorating assurance of the possession of unflinching faith, and in each of life’s trying situations he unfailingly exhibited an unquestioning loyalty to the Father’s will. And this superb faith was undaunted even by the cruel and crushing threat of an ignominious death.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Nigel NunnParticipant
Jan 14, 2019, 11:56 PM
Bradly wrote

“I think 9.6 is telling us that doctrine, creed, and theology are substitutes for the living of one’s religion by the making of sincere choices based on experience and personal growth in truth and knowledge and wisdom.”

From 103:9.6,

“The mission of theology is merely to facilitate the self-consciousness of personal spiritual experience. […]“

Maybe we can distinguish between “initial mission“, and “actual potential” of theology? Historically, theology has stumbled along as “dogma to be defended”. In the future, a more agile version of theology might serve truly to facilitate and foster not only that “intellectual reflection” upon, but also the sharing of, our personal spiritual experience?

Nigel
BonitaParticipant
Jan 15, 2019, 12:16 AM
Doesn’t TUB define theology as the psychology of religion?

(69.1) 5:5.6 Religious experience, being essentially spiritual, can never be fully understood by the material mind; hence the function of theology, the psychology of religion.

It also tells us that theology is the study of your own religion whereas the study of other people’s religion is called psychology.

(1135.3) 103:6.1 Theology is the study of the actions and reactions of the human spirit; it can never become a science since it must always be combined more or less with psychology in its personal expression and with philosophy in its systematic portrayal. Theology is always the study of your religion; the study of another’s religion is psychology.

I think it’s a bit confusing. TUB also tells us that the science of psychology has weakened religions dependent upon psychological poisons.

(1090.4) 99:4.8 Man’s greatest spiritual jeopardy consists in partial progress, the predicament of unfinished growth: forsaking the evolutionary religions of fear without immediately grasping the revelatory religion of love. Modern science, particularly psychology, has weakened only those religions which are so largely dependent upon fear, superstition, and emotion.

I agree that theology (the study of my own religion) is an evolutionary process. It grows and progresses, and I suppose the same thing happens with everyone, but some fixate at a certain phase. TUB describes four phases in the evolution of a religious philosophy of living, which I think is the same as the mission of theology: ” . . . to facilitate the self-consciousness of personal spiritual experience.”

101:7.4 . . . There are four phases in the evolution of religious philosophy: Such an experience may become merely conformative, resigned to submission to tradition and authority. Or it may be satisfied with slight attainments, just enough to stabilize the daily living, and therefore becomes early arrested on such an adventitious level. Such mortals believe in letting well enough alone. A third group progress to the level of logical intellectuality but there stagnate in consequence of cultural slavery. It is indeed pitiful to behold giant intellects held so securely within the cruel grasp of cultural bondage. It is equally pathetic to observe those who trade their cultural bondage for the materialistic fetters of a science, falsely so called. The fourth level of philosophy attains freedom from all conventional and traditional handicaps and dares to think, act, and live honestly, loyally, fearlessly, and truthfully.
BradlyParticipant
Jan 18, 2019, 10:56 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote:

Bradly wrote

“I think 9.6 is telling us that doctrine, creed, and theology are substitutes for the living of one’s religion by the making of sincere choices based on experience and personal growth in truth and knowledge and wisdom.”

From 103:9.6,

“The mission of theology is merely to facilitate the self-consciousness of personal spiritual experience. […]“

Maybe we can distinguish between “initial mission“, and “actual potential” of theology? Historically, theology has stumbled along as “dogma to be defended”. In the future, a more agile version of theology might serve truly to facilitate and foster not only that “intellectual reflection” upon, but also the sharing of, our personal spiritual experience? Nigel

Thanks Nigel…yes, I now notice the text says theology “may” fix and dogmatize, not that it inherently or ideally does so. A “more agile version” certainly offers greater potential!

Thanks Bonita for the quotes which also enlarge the concept and functions of theology! My theology is the study of my religion, not its definition or limits.

In that case, these study groups on Personal Religion – Papers 100-103 – have indeed prompted such study of my own and consideration on how to improve personal practices to provide the soil and opportunity for more growth and a stronger attachment of my branch to the vine to ever grow in faith!

The objective is to not let theology become a simple belief or creed that becomes an unyielding prejudice and obstacle to growth. Theology should be as alive and formative as the religious experience and our spiritization itself!

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Jan 20, 2019, 4:06 PM

Bradly wrote:

Theology should be as alive and formative as the religious experience and our spiritization itself!

I would say that’s correct since theology is defined as an attempt to define God. (90:5.7) If theology concerns your own personal religion, then your personal definition of God will change as you get to know him and become more like him.

Socialized theology tends to get mired in strict definitions of God, which is where creeds and dogma come from. That’s why I’m so adamantly against churchification of the Revelation. Socializing one’s own theology should be about discovering the psychology, or psychic environment, of other religionists – which is the same as getting to know other humans and how they think. “Human things must be known in order to be loved”, a fact we’re told is literally true. Another fact we’re told is literally true is that “no man lives by himself”. Socializing the personality is the highest form of personality unification. (56:10.14)

So there is the challenge – how to socialize your own private theology without dogmatizing it. Folks that go about proselytizing their own theology because they feel certain that it’s true often forget the simple fact that what is true for them may not be true for others. An honest person would go about asking about others’ theologies, their psychologies, rather than trying to sell their own. I say if you’re trying to sell your own theology to others, then you’re probably not very secure about it. Chances are you’re looking for verification instead – “Look at me, I’ve found the answer . . . you agree right?” Or, “I know I’ve found the answer and you should be ashamed of yourself if you don’t agree.” Seen it both ways depending upon the ego involved.

That’s not to say if someone asks you to explain your own personal theology that you shouldn’t wax poetic about it. After all, if it’s something of utmost importance and value to you, then you’ll be enthusiastic about sharing it. But then it would have that attractive fragrance TUB talks about.

99:4.1 Genuine religion renders the religionist socially fragrant and creates insights into human fellowship.
AndréParticipant
Jan 20, 2019, 4:08 PM

In Brotherhood,

André
BonitaParticipant
Jan 21, 2019, 9:17 PM

andré wrote:

Racials’s differences wouldn’t be harmonize solely by humans will.

I agree. The Revelation tells us that racial harmony, or social brotherhood, is not natural among humans. It’s something that must evolve from experience, which is one reason why we have different races in the first place. In fact, racial harmony is only possible with celestial help, which is why we have the ministry of The Spirits of Brotherhood. (39:5.4)

(1573.5) 140:5.3 Jesus did not expect his followers to achieve an impossible manifestation of brotherly love, but he did expect them to so strive to be like God — to be perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect — that they could begin to look upon man as God looks upon his creatures and therefore could begin to love men as God loves them — to show forth the beginnings of a fatherly affection.

andré wrote:

A person’s race must be related to intellectual, spiritual, and moral qualities that they inherited.

Yes, I agree. A person’s character is inherited, which includes psychic and moral qualities as well as the rational and spiritual inclinations of the human intellect.

andré wrote:

As an example; Cain as a 50% base heredity had came to asked for spiritual help and guidance, and when he honestly sought divine assistance, an Adjuster indwelt him. 76:2.8

I think it was the better half of Cain’s heredity that led him to sincerely seek for divine assistance. His 50% base inheritance always disdained his father’s religion. His better half won, and that’s how it always works in the universe. Spirit triumphs when given a chance and that’s because it’s more real. Unreal things don’t work no matter how hard you try, which is why life in Realville is so rewarding – where the yoke is easy and the burdens light.
BradlyParticipant
Jan 22, 2019, 5:42 PM
103:9.8 (1141.6) Science (knowledge) is founded on the inherent (adjutant spirit) assumption that reason is valid, that the universe can be comprehended. Philosophy (co-ordinate comprehension) is founded on the inherent (spirit of wisdom) assumption that wisdom is valid, that the material universe can be co-ordinated with the spiritual. Religion (the truth of personal spiritual experience) is founded on the inherent (Thought Adjuster) assumption that faith is valid, that God can be known and attained.

103:9.9 (1141.7) The full realization of the reality of mortal life consists in a progressive willingness to believe these assumptions of reason, wisdom, and faith. Such a life is one motivated by truth and dominated by love; and these are the ideals of objective cosmic reality whose existence cannot be materially demonstrated.

Would someone please clarify, again, the definition of metaphysics and its relationship to “co-ordinate comprehension” (philosophy)? Is metaphysics one of “these assumptions of reason….”?

Again, 9.9 above indicates that experiential wisdom results in greater and greater objectivity and less and less subjectivity regarding our perspective and knowledge of universe reality…”the ideals of objective cosmic reality”.

Does “full realization of the reality of mortal life” mean conquest/progress of the 7 Psychic Circles?

When it says “…whose existence cannot be materially demonstrated.”…I presume that means to mortals living still upon their material worlds of origin? I mean, mota and our morontial education and journey to Paradise and fusion with our Adjuster should provide a material or factual demonstration of objective reality, right?

Thanks everyone for such illuminating commentary and discussion.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Jan 22, 2019, 11:27 PM
In a nutshell, human metaphysics is what happens when philosophy takes a train ride out of Realville.

There are only three levels of reality available to finite beings: science, philosophy and religion (causation, duty, worship). Metaphysics is what happens when the reality reflex response doesn’t ping because the philosopher has gone off the rails in search of figment (as Nigel likes to call it).
BonitaParticipant
Jan 23, 2019, 12:52 PM

Bradly wrote:

Is metaphysics one of “these assumptions of reason….”?

No.

The assumptions of reason have to do with material facts, science or causation. It’s a level of fact-consciousness provided by the lower adjutants. If we are willing to accept the reality reflex associated with this level of consciousness, we are able to recognize its validity.

The assumptions of faith have to do with spirit, value or worship. It’s a level of spirit-consciousness provided by the Adjuster, the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit. If we are willing to accept the reality reflex associated with this level of consciousness, we are able to recognize its validity.

The assumptions of wisdom have to do with meanings, philosophy or duty. It’s a level of coordinate-consciousness provided by the two higher adjutants. If we are willing to accept the reality reflex associated with this level of consciousness, we are able to recognize its validity.

These are the three levels of reality we finite beings are capable of recognizing. The crucial information is that philosophy is the level of reality which coordinates both the assumptions of reason and the assumptions of faith. If both the assumptions of reason and the assumptions of faith are recognized as real, then philosophy has the moral duty to coordinate them both into something that is also real, that can be acted out in real life.

Metaphysics either fails to do that entirely, or it may only partially coordinate the two realities. Partial coordination is incomplete, imperfect and therefore evil, but it is not necessarily sin. Being confused is an expected byproduct of evolution. Working diligently and sincerely to become unconfused is the accepted response. Revelation is God’s answer to the dilemma, both epochal revelation and self-revelation (or auto-revelation).
BonitaParticipant
Jan 23, 2019, 2:54 PM

Bradly wrote:

Does “full realization of the reality of mortal life” mean conquest/progress of the 7 Psychic Circles?

The quote is referring to the entire mortal life and its progression. We never fully realize all the reality there is to realize. I don’t think the quote uses the word full to mean final and total realization of reality. Instead, I think of it more as the fullness of one’s capacity, where capacity is ever growing.

I think the second sentence of the quote is more revealing. “Such a life is one motivated by truth and dominated by love; and these are the ideals of objective cosmic reality whose existence cannot be materially demonstrated.” This tells us that truth and love are just as objectively real as material reality which we can touch, feel and interact with in a physical manner. The objective validity of these ideals becomes more apparent to us as our personalities become more real, and that is the purpose of the psychic circles. Self-revelation and personality realization is the product of our labor with our psychic conundrums provided there is willingness to believe (and perceive) the three assumptions of reality.

I think it’s curious they use the word assumption, but I think they are trying to say that the proof we crave is not always tangible. Mathematical formulas don’t provide the answers for everything. We have to be willing to trust the reality reflexes of the cosmic mind and accept with confidence the feeling of reality even if it can’t be proven. The only proof we have is that it works, it’s stable, there are no loose parts dangling due to an improper fit. Dangling parts are metaphysical parts. Meta- has to do with position and metaphysics is physics misplaced. It’s what happens when philosophy attempts to apply the rules of the physical world in its duty to coordinate material and spiritual reality. And that comes from a lack of perception of morontia reality, which is why we need revelation in the morontia soul.

Hope this makes sense.

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