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The Reality of Religious Experience – Paper 103

230 posts · 8 participants · started Aug 1, 2018, 10:07 PM

BonitaParticipant
Dec 14, 2018, 1:39 PM
Jesus explained how to deal with metaphysical fictions when he told Simon to refrain from trying to “take something out” of the hearts of men. He was talking about those metaphysical patches placed by people in the fabric of their minds in order to cover the holes and gaps created by a lack of mota/revelation. Mind is unity, and it will automatically fill in those gaps with invented reality. To remove them would cause chaos – who can adequately think with a swiss cheese mind filled with empty vacuoles where ideas simply disappear into little black holes? It would cause an otherwise good soul to freak-out!

Instead, Jesus told Simon to labor to put something into souls instead, and that something would be an abundance of truth, beauty and goodness. This, explained Jesus, would crowd out the error and replace it. It’s not unlike how new skin forms under a scab. If you pull off a scab too soon it reactivates the injury and won’t heal; it festers. Leaving the scab on works best because the new skin beneath gently lifts it off and all is whole and healthy in the end.

But this only addresses the situation where a person recognizes metaphysical fictions in another person’s psyche. It does not address how to discover and recognize one in your own psychic milieu. But wouldn’t the same apply? Isn’t it best to simply seek truth, beauty and goodness with a whole heart and mind, then allow it to crowd out all misconceptions, errors and fictions? Rather than self-analysis, I think the approach should be prayerful living, as though in the presence of God, thus always humbly and sincerely seeking what is truly real, while at the same time, knowing that the seeking never ceases. Such an attitude becomes a habit, a way of life, which would naturally influence the same approach toward others.

I think TUB calls this process auto-revelation. Old ideas gradually get new meanings and fall off like a dead scabs. It’s about growth, the process of which is completely unconscious, so analyzing it will get you nowhere. The process of growing new skin under the old is essentially imperceptible until the scab finally falls off. When that happens, you’re like, Wow! This is great!. I’m so happy, I feel like new. Let me tell someone! (aka, socialization of the personality).

56:10.14 . . . Cosmic socialization constitutes the highest form of personality unification.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Dec 15, 2018, 2:02 AM
Dear Bonita — this is one of the best insights (and so beautifully expressed) I’ve seen for years:

Bonita wrote:

“Jesus explained how to deal with metaphysical fictions when he told Simon to refrain from trying to “take something out” of the hearts of men. He was talking about those metaphysical patches placed by people in the fabric of their minds in order to cover the holes and gaps created by a lack of mota/revelation. […]“

For those following along, please see Bonita’s full comment above. Worth a 2nd (and 3rd) look.

Wow. Thanks for such contributions!

Nigel
BonitaParticipant
Dec 15, 2018, 10:26 AM
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the feedback Nigel. Thank you very much.
GeneParticipant
Dec 15, 2018, 12:54 PM

Bonita wrote:

Jesus explained how to deal with metaphysical fictions when he told Simon to refrain from trying to “take something out” of the hearts of men. He was talking about those metaphysical patches placed by people in the fabric of their minds in order to cover the holes and gaps created by a lack of mota/revelation. Mind is unity, and it will automatically fill in those gaps with invented reality. To remove them would cause chaos – who can adequately think with a swiss cheese mind filled with empty vacuoles where ideas simply disappear into little black holes? It would cause an otherwise good soul to freak-out! Instead, Jesus told Simon to labor to put something into souls instead, and that something would be an abundance of truth, beauty and goodness. This, explained Jesus, would crowd out the error and replace it. It’s not unlike how new skin forms under a scab. If you pull off a scab too soon it reactivates the injury and won’t heal; it festers. Leaving the scab on works best because the new skin beneath gently lifts it off and all is whole and healthy in the end. But this only addresses the situation where a person recognizes metaphysical fictions in another person’s psyche. It does not address how to discover and recognize one in your own psychic milieu. But wouldn’t the same apply? Isn’t it best to simply seek truth, beauty and goodness with a whole heart and mind, then allow it to crowd out all misconceptions, errors and fictions? Rather than self-analysis, I think the approach should be prayerful living, as though in the presence of God, thus always humbly and sincerely seeking what is truly real, while at the same time, knowing that the seeking never ceases. Such an attitude becomes a habit, a way of life, which would naturally influence the same approach toward others. I think TUB calls this process auto-revelation. Old ideas gradually get new meanings and fall off like a dead scabs. It’s about growth, the process of which is completely unconscious, so analyzing it will get you nowhere. The process of growing new skin under the old is essentially imperceptible until the scab finally falls off. When that happens, you’re like, Wow! This is great!. I’m so happy, I feel like new. Let me tell someone! (aka, socialization of the personality).

56:10.14 . . . Cosmic socialization constitutes the highest form of personality unification.

there seem to be an over abundance of people freaking out these days with little truth beauty or goodness making its way into so many hungry minds.

i wonder how the lack of Adamic biological upgrade has impacted our ability to deal with creating metaphysical patches?
BonitaParticipant
Dec 15, 2018, 2:01 PM

Gene wrote:

i wonder how the lack of Adamic biological upgrade has impacted our ability to deal with creating metaphysical patches?

Excellent thought. Personally, I think it has more to do with modern society than DNA. Myths are being shattered by science so people are using science as metaphysical patches – turning science into myth, not unlike the great flood. TUB refers to materialism as a “false science”.
Van AmadonParticipant
Dec 16, 2018, 10:11 AM

Bonita wrote:

Jesus explained how to deal with metaphysical fictions when he told Simon to refrain from trying to “take something out” of the hearts of men. He was talking about those metaphysical patches placed by people in the fabric of their minds in order to cover the holes and gaps created by a lack of mota/revelation. Mind is unity, and it will automatically fill in those gaps with invented reality. To remove them would cause chaos – who can adequately think with a swiss cheese mind filled with empty vacuoles where ideas simply disappear into little black holes? It would cause an otherwise good soul to freak-out! Instead, Jesus told Simon to labor to put something into souls instead, and that something would be an abundance of truth, beauty and goodness. This, explained Jesus, would crowd out the error and replace it. It’s not unlike how new skin forms under a scab. If you pull off a scab too soon it reactivates the injury and won’t heal; it festers. Leaving the scab on works best because the new skin beneath gently lifts it off and all is whole and healthy in the end. But this only addresses the situation where a person recognizes metaphysical fictions in another person’s psyche. It does not address how to discover and recognize one in your own psychic milieu. But wouldn’t the same apply? Isn’t it best to simply seek truth, beauty and goodness with a whole heart and mind, then allow it to crowd out all misconceptions, errors and fictions? Rather than self-analysis, I think the approach should be prayerful living, as though in the presence of God, thus always humbly and sincerely seeking what is truly real, while at the same time, knowing that the seeking never ceases. Such an attitude becomes a habit, a way of life, which would naturally influence the same approach toward others. I think TUB calls this process auto-revelation. Old ideas gradually get new meanings and fall off like a dead scabs. It’s about growth, the process of which is completely unconscious, so analyzing it will get you nowhere. The process of growing new skin under the old is essentially imperceptible until the scab finally falls off. When that happens, you’re like, Wow! This is great!. I’m so happy, I feel like new. Let me tell someone! (aka, socialization of the personality).

56:10.14 . . . Cosmic socialization constitutes the highest form of personality unification.

Thank you Bonita, for putting something into our souls.

All the best!
BonitaParticipant
Dec 16, 2018, 11:21 AM
All the best to you too Enno and thanks for the feedback.
Van AmadonParticipant
Dec 16, 2018, 12:05 PM

Bonita wrote:

All the best to you too Enno and thanks for the feedback.

You’re welcome.

You know, stopping to pick at scabs (mine and especially those of others) has been something I’ve been working on recently and it was quite helpful when I read your post, how your insight into habits and picking at scabs, put it into its proper perspective for me. And because of it, I will always keep it in mind like that from now on.

Thanks again Bonita.

Enno
BonitaParticipant
Dec 16, 2018, 2:37 PM
Thank you so much for sharing that Enno. I can’t tell you how much it means to me.

We’re all alike in that way, impatiently picking at our own scabs. For one thing, they itch. Deep inside we must know that they have to go. Back in the day when TUB first arrived on my shores I had many metaphysical scabs itching to come off. There were some things I knew in my heart were not real but I had no suitable replacement, so they sat there getting crustier. Those things were concepts such as: original sin; hell; meddling devils; a vengeful god who flooded the whole planet; an ark full of animals; the land of Nod thing; the virgin birth, etc.. Revelation closed those gaps and the scabs fell off almost instantly. What a relief! Finally something that made sense and had that REAL feel.

We’ve all had that experience on some level and want to share it. But I think each person in his own time and according to the make-up of his/her psyche, not to mention where their psyches are on the circle journey. None of us know where another person is on this spectrum. We don’t even know where we, ourselves, are. So, patience is required. Time is necessary. Thankfully mercy credits are abundant for those times when we can’t seem to stop ourselves from scratching and oozing.

Way, way back in the day when I was in nursing we had to wear white uniforms, stockings, shoes and caps, as well as a pin from the school we graduated. Times were changing rapidly and the caps went, as did the pins, but some of us wore other adornments. I worked in the ICU and most of my patients were barely conscious, so I was a bit bold. I found a pin that said: ” Germ-free environment. Please refrain from dropping scabs and oozing pus.” It got a mixed response. Don’t know what happened to that thing. Would love to find it.
BradlyParticipant
Dec 18, 2018, 1:50 PM
Thank you Bonita!!

Such insightful illuminations which deliver greater clarity, focus, frame of reference, context, and perspective. All critical adjustments for us all related to universe reality…and such meanings clearly showcase the value of epochal revelation in improving the quality of and The Reality of ….Religious Experience!! The adding of that which clarifies truth and removes the impurities of human misconceptions and the metaphysical fictions created in mind as a substitute for the realities still to discover is such a welcome blessing!!

8. Philosophy and Religion

103:8.1 (1140.1) Although both science and philosophy may assume the probability of God by their reason and logic, only the personal religious experience of a spirit-led man can affirm the certainty of such a supreme and personal Deity. By the technique of such an incarnation of living truth the philosophic hypothesis of the probability of God becomes a religious reality.

103:8.2 (1140.2) The confusion about the experience of the certainty of God arises out of the dissimilar interpretations and relations of that experience by separate individuals and by different races of men. The experiencing of God may be wholly valid, but the discourse about God, being intellectual and philosophical, is divergent and oftentimes confusingly fallacious.

103:8.3 (1140.3) A good and noble man may be consummately in love with his wife but utterly unable to pass a satisfactory written examination on the psychology of marital love. Another man, having little or no love for his spouse, might pass such an examination most acceptably. The imperfection of the lover’s insight into the true nature of the beloved does not in the least invalidate either the reality or sincerity of his love.

103:8.4 (1140.4) If you truly believe in God—by faith know him and love him—do not permit the reality of such an experience to be in any way lessened or detracted from by the doubting insinuations of science, the caviling of logic, the postulates of philosophy, or the clever suggestions of well-meaning souls who would create a religion without God.

103:8.5 (1140.5) The certainty of the God-knowing religionist should not be disturbed by the uncertainty of the doubting materialist; rather should the uncertainty of the unbeliever be mightily challenged by the profound faith and unshakable certainty of the experiential believer.

103:8.6 (1140.6) Philosophy, to be of the greatest service to both science and religion, should avoid the extremes of both materialism and pantheism. Only a philosophy which recognizes the reality of personality—permanence in the presence of change—can be of moral value to man, can serve as a liaison between the theories of material science and spiritual religion. Revelation is a compensation for the frailties of evolving philosophy.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Dec 20, 2018, 1:09 PM
Thanks Bradly. I agree. The reality of religious experience is a personal revelation. But isn’t 103:8.2 interesting in that it declares that race influences a person’s religious experience. Given the recent lengthy discussion about race and adjutants, where does this fit in, especially given that revelation is not adjutant derived? What’s the link between race and the morontia soul given the information that racial characteristics follow us to the mansion worlds? It wouldn’t be physical in nature, but mindal on some level, but not adjutant mind, right?
GeneParticipant
Dec 20, 2018, 2:13 PM
If I may give my 2cents:

isnt it true that six Sangik races have a tendency to favor one of the first six adjutants?
1. spirit of intuition indigo race
2. spirit of understanding green race
3. spirit of courage orange race
4. spirit of knowledge blue race
5. spirit of counsel yellow race
6. spirit of worship red race
Then, after Adam and an Eve come to blend the Sangik races, the violet race should emerge after blending the above and tend to favor the seventh Adjutant, the spirit of wisdom.

sounds very racial to me this connection between Adjutant and race. Don’t you think we have an orange commander in chief? ????
BonitaParticipant
Dec 20, 2018, 5:58 PM

Gene wrote:

isnt it true that six Sangik races have a tendency to favor one of the first six adjutants?

Are you able to provide supporting references from the Revelation which you believe confirms your proposition to be true?

Gene wrote:

Don’t you think we have an orange commander in chief? ????

If the color-coding thing is true, then YUP, I think we do. But what about the wisdom thing?
GeneParticipant
Dec 20, 2018, 9:14 PM
Can’t prove by direct quotes

so many things and beings if not all that have to do with the ascension plan tend to be in groups of seven starting at the top and stepping down to us lowly tadpoles.

Whats the lowest order of seven that has anything to do with animal and human response to same – the Adjutants.

I suppose I’m guilty of reading between the lines, otherwise all men are created equal and that’s not possible or logical.
BradlyParticipant
Dec 20, 2018, 10:42 PM

Bonita wrote:

Thanks Bradly. I agree. The reality of religious experience is a personal revelation. But isn’t 103:8.2 interesting in that it declares that race influences a person’s religious experience. Given the recent lengthy discussion about race and adjutants, where does this fit in, especially given that revelation is not adjutant derived? What’s the link between race and the morontia soul given the information that racial characteristics follow us to the mansion worlds? It wouldn’t be physical in nature, but mindal on some level, but not adjutant mind, right?

Rightly or wrongly I have always assumed the term used in this line: “The confusion about the experience of the certainty of God arises out of the dissimilar interpretations and relations of that experience by separate individuals and by different races of men.” – meant different cultures of people rather than races as determined by color. But I can say there are distinctions in my white family’s Baptist church and the black side of my family’s Baptist church experiences and expressions of worship and song. Weddings and funerals too! But I fear any distinctions I might articulate would primarily illuminate my ignorance and unwise generalizations. Read recently in the UB that one’s religious experience began with simple dancing…the physical expression of the inner response to Spirit.

I notice that the UB seems to lament that on Uranita, the colored races were so genocidal toward one another before the Adamic blood became available and that each color of the 6 has important and valuable genetic contributions to make to the aboriginal and the resulting amalgamation results on more normal worlds. We’re told how much more intelligent were ALL the colored races compared to the aboriginal Andonic stock. Consider how amalgamation works on a normal world where the Prince arrives so much sooner after the aboriginal first people and the 6 colors come individually and geographically separated and the violet is universally distributed which all results in a much more dispersed and evenly integrated genetic pool which takes the best from each to evolve the all.

It would seem that the Mansion World distinction must only be effective or relevant during the earlier mortal epochs. This might provide important emotional continuity for such souls as I doubt our new morontial bodies perpetuate racial distinctions…but again I generalize from ignorance. If not adjutant related, then either the mortal mind or the soul would need some differential or distinct relational response and recognition related to the Thought Adjuster? Mystery to me.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
GeneParticipant
Dec 21, 2018, 12:22 AM

Gene wrote:

Can’t prove by direct quotes so many things and beings if not all that have to do with the ascension plan tend to be in groups of seven starting at the top and stepping down to us lowly tadpoles. Whats the lowest order of seven that has anything to do with animal and human response to same – the Adjutants. I suppose I’m guilty of reading between the lines, otherwise all men are created equal and that’s not possible or logical.

thinking again about this maybe it was something to do with how the leaders of the Sangik races expressed their concept of God: The Red Sangik leader called him the great spirit, I’d have to look up the others.

But a close connection of Sangiks to Adjutants made sense to me at some point in my reading adventure.

Am I alone and off base with this idea? What do you think?
BonitaParticipant
Dec 21, 2018, 11:41 AM
I’ve been trying to come up with a delicate way to express my thoughts on this matter and the following is the best I can do, so I hope there’s no offense.

Gene wrote:

Can’t prove by direct quotes

That’s because they don’t exist.

Gene wrote:

so many things and beings if not all that have to do with the ascension plan tend to be in groups of seven starting at the top and stepping down to us lowly tadpoles

That’s because the number seven is based upon the “associative possibilities mathematically inherent in the three persons of Deity” (16:0.1). But just because there’s seven of this, or seven of that, doesn’t mean that everything appearing in groups seven are all directly related by number. If that were so, the first adjutant, (and as you and Nigel claim, the indigo race, which incidentally is not the first race, the red race is), would also have to be related to the first superuniverse; to Master Spirit Number One; to the first of the seven circuits of Havona; to Supreme Executive Number One; to the first of the seven Supreme Power Directors; to this or that first world . . . I could go on and on. Of course none of that can be true. Plus! we have eight races, not seven!

Gene wrote:

Whats the lowest order of seven that has anything to do with animal and human response to same – the Adjutants.

That’s because the adjutants are mind spirits involved in the development of character, which is multifactorial. The physical world is dominated by the number ten, the spirit world by number seven (42:9.2), and DNA is dominated by the number twelve. (36:2.11) Character is inherited through DNA (12), then perfected through mind ministry (7) and personality choice (1) while living in the physical world (10). Lots of numbers to choose from there.

Gene wrote:

I suppose I’m guilty of reading between the lines,

No, I think you just swallowed Nigel’s metaphysics hook, line and sinker. Which is why I have a cow over this stuff. It’s the same type of phenomenon that exchanged a hybrid Mithras-Christos Savior for Jesus, which was subsequently swallowed hook, line and sinker by half the world. Ya gotta be careful with metaphysics. It’s not real. It just seems real to the lower mind.

Gene wrote:

. . . otherwise all men are created equal and that’s not possible or logical.

So you’re saying that if each of the races are not dominated by a particular adjutant mind ministry, then all men are “created equal”? That the only thing that makes humans unequal is the influence of a particular adjutant? Where does character come into this? Character is genetic. It’s built into the DNA, which is based on the number twelve. There are not twelve adjutants.

This is a topic for another thread, but I’ll ask anyway. What makes one race superior over another? If racial superiority is genetic and all adjutants make contact with human mind (otherwise it wouldn’t be human), then wouldn’t superiority have to do with the quality of response to the totality of mind ministry rather than the quantity of one particular part? And isn’t quality a measure of divinity? (0:1.2) – the response to Deity, which is spiritual? And isn’t mind the intervening ministry between one’s physical genetic character and one’s progressively perfecting spiritual character (aka divinity attainment, an achievement of the total personality)?
BonitaParticipant
Dec 21, 2018, 3:27 PM

Bradly wrote:

Rightly or wrongly I have always assumed the term used in this line: “The confusion about the experience of the certainty of God arises out of the dissimilar interpretations and relations of that experience by separate individuals and by different races of men.” – meant different cultures of people rather than races as determined by color.

Aren’t they saying that different races of men have different interpretations of their religious experiences? I agree that it tends to be cultural when the members of a given race live in close proximity to one another. But now that races are commingled and scattered all over the globe, there still remains a specific flavor of worship response that can be identified as this race or that. TUB mentions that there are “definite social tendencies” of the different races that persist even on the mansion worlds. (48:6.22)

The purpose of the different races is to provide ” . . . desirable variations in mortal types” in order to afford “. . . an otherwise unattainable expression of diverse human potentials” (51:4.4). But isn’t it true that human potentials were exhausted prior to the arrival of Adam and Eve, the violet race? So what is it today that makes the races different in their interpretation of religious experience and does it matter? Wouldn’t the basis of expression still be genetic, or physical – the style by which spiritual experiences are expressed within the physical world? On morontia levels is there still a difference? TUB says yes, I think.

Bradly wrote:

It would seem that the Mansion World distinction must only be effective or relevant during the earlier mortal epochs. This might provide important emotional continuity for such souls as I doubt our new morontial bodies perpetuate racial distinctions…but again I generalize from ignorance. If not adjutant related, then either the mortal mind or the soul would need some differential or distinct relational response and recognition related to the Thought Adjuster? Mystery to me.

The seven racial wings of the resurrection hall, I admit, have mystified me for many reasons. If each race represents a “mortal type” then I can understand there being different resurrection needs for each type. But as the races combine in various ways, how do they determine which wing you’re resurrected in? My hobby is genealogy and I did the DNA thing a few years ago. Everyday I get DNA matched to 20-50 new cousins. It’s remarkable the variety of sources of DNA in my relatives. Only a very rare few are 100% of anything. In fact, there are more that have a mixture of everything. So what determines race today? For instance, the greatest portion of my DNA is from England, Wales and Northwestern Europe, which means I’m mostly blue/white. Am I going to wake up in the blue wing of the resurrection hall? I wish I knew, not that it matters.

I guess the heart of it is, how does race make a difference on the morontia level of reality? I think it has to do with character. The soul is the survival character of the personality. Since it is a co-created character, then there must be a racial flavor stemming from the original DNA inherited character traits we have our parents to thank for (not happy about inheriting my mother’s). That would explain why some undesirable vestiges of character need to be corrected or polished on the mansion worlds.

I’m not sure what happens in the later epochs when folks begin to translate instead of die. By then the planet is supposed to be one race or very close to it, yet everyone who dies a natural death goes to mansion world number one and there’s no mention of changing the resurrection hall over time, unless I missed it, which is possible. Also, are the resurrection halls on the other mansion worlds racially segregated too? I’ll have to go back and refresh my memory. At some point it seems the racial thing must dissipate and no longer be relevant, but I can’t recall at the moment. And what wing do they assign people like Andon and Fonta who existed prior to the colored races? I don’t think the revelators explained that.
GeneParticipant
Dec 21, 2018, 5:08 PM
Any association between me and Nigel is coincidence

as for superior inferior I can’t think about it like that, but differences, certainly. It’s all good, beautiful and true.

Seems that discussion of racial differences lights the fire, difficult to have reasonable discussion but that wasn’t my point really.

i think I said the different Sangiks tend to favor an Adjutant not be dominated by.

think about it this way: the Adjutants tend to reflect individuality associativity and unity

take courage and worship – aren’t these an expression of unity?

dont you see unity in the red Sangik by the description of their traits and charistics and when their leader refers to god as spirit? Or the great spirit? Spirit is unity.

other Sangiks tend to favor individuality and others associativity. I read it in their traits and charistics. Maybe my mistake.

The six Adjutants. And the seventh, seems reasonable it should unify all.

metaphysics is dangerous but it is also a tool. We use it because there is no alternative and can easily be wrong, move on and keep learning.

is it metaphysics that happens when we recognize superadditives?
BonitaParticipant
Dec 21, 2018, 6:41 PM

There’s just one thing I want to know. If the orange race favored moral stamina, spiritual bravery and the urge of evolutionary ascension, why are they extinct?

And maybe one other thing. Are you defining superadditve as the phenomenon of putting two substances together and getting an entirely new substance as in this quote:

(141.4) 12:9.3 Mathematics, material science, is indispensable to the intelligent discussion of the material aspects of the universe, but such knowledge is not necessarily a part of the higher realization of truth or of the personal appreciation of spiritual realities. Not only in the realms of life but even in the world of physical energy, the sum of two or more things is very often something more than, or something different from, the predictable additive consequences of such unions. The entire science of mathematics, the whole domain of philosophy, the highest physics or chemistry, could not predict or know that the union of two gaseous hydrogen atoms with one gaseous oxygen atom would result in a new and qualitatively superadditive substance — liquid water. The understanding knowledge of this one physiochemical phenomenon should have prevented the development of materialistic philosophy and mechanistic cosmology.

Or, do you mean the phenomenon of squaring the effect of personality association as in this quote? (Which is exponential but not superadditive, I don’t think):

(1477.1) 133:5.6 Mathematics asserts that, if one person stands for a certain unit of intellectual and moral value, ten persons would stand for ten times this value. But in dealing with human personality it would be nearer the truth to say that such a personality association is a sum equal to the square of the number of personalities concerned in the equation rather than the simple arithmetical sum. A social group of human beings in co-ordinated working harmony stands for a force far greater than the simple sum of its parts.

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