All humans are relegated to the opinion section of the bleachers of life!
Is that true?
Seems so to me; we have opinions about everything, but not omniscience about anything.
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The Reality of Religious Experience – Paper 103
230 posts · 8 participants · started Aug 1, 2018, 10:07 PM
I don’t disagree with you entirely, but . . . how does this:
Mark Kurtz wrote: All humans are relegated to the opinion section of the bleachers of life!Align with this:(1120.1) 102:2.4In knowledge alone there can never be absolute certainty, only increasing probability of approximation; but the religious soul of spiritual illumination knows, and knows now.
It aligns very well! Ultimate knowledge capability is God, the Trinity, the Supreme. So, the quote states knowledge alone is not absolute certainty for us mortals. We study deeply; we study using conjecture and involve ourselves in supposition, but cannot achieve omniscience. We’d do well to soften our adamant attitudes and accept we mortals only have opinions based on what we know, what we can imagine, and what we observe in the experiences of others. And some of us our too “opinionated”, some of us complain. We are seated in that section.
We know in our “hearts” what is true and that is a mind experience that is not subject to sciences and math. Isn’t that wonderful!
The opinion section statement is only a softening technique for those persons who are narrow and unwilling to think. It is intended to apply a leveling to those who may be too confident and to crack open the leaks for learning more, if willing.
Well, its nice to be able to know; our Mother Provides this wonderful mind experience.
(1120.1) 102:2.4In knowledge alone there can never be absolute certainty, only increasing probability of approximation; but the religious soul of spiritual illumination knows, and knows now.
I think this quote is making a clear distinction between the two minds we humans are gifted with. One is an adjutant mind, the other is a morontia mind. The adjutant mind has one kind of knowing, the morontia mind has a different kind of knowing. Both are essential to a well-balanced personality while in the flesh.
The kind of knowing we gain from our adjutant mind concerns facts and the interpretation of facts. Because mental interpretations differ, opinions concerning facts will also differ. Absolute certainty regarding the interpretation of facts is not attainable, at least not in this life.
The kind of knowing we gain from our morontia mind concerns truth and the experience with truth. Such personality experiences are real and permanent, therefore reliable and certain. That being said, all personalities are different, so their experiences with truth will also differ, but they are none the less real and certain.
Assurance and certainty depend upon the second type of knowing. It is personal and real. The first type of knowing is only an approximation of reality and therefore less certain. The anxiety over this uncertainty makes some people want all the more to make it certain by attempting to convince others to adopt and accept it. The more unreal knowledge is, the greater the anxiety, and thus the need to persuade others of its reality – all producing more and more frustration, anger, resentment and hostility – which is where we find society today. This problem cannot be solved with more tolerance and acceptance of competing ideas; it can only be resolved by more of the second type of knowing.
People who have turned science into a religion and people who have turned morality into a religion, based upon ideologies formed by the first kind of knowing, will continue to be miserably frustrated until they discover the second kind of knowing in the morontia soul. These folks need more true religion, the religion of the spirit, the Holy Spirit, who makes up the matrix of the soul and in concert with the Spirit of Truth and Adjuster, provides certainty and assurance of personality reality.
Well said Bonita….reminds me of the quotes I provided links to for “faith assurance” and “truth assurance”…the assurance is certain regardless of the fact content of that which feeds faith or realizes truth.
I disagree with the opinion that mortal mind can have nothing more than opinion. We do acquire facts and knowledge. Our entire universe career is about the acquisition of knowledge and experience which makes our perspective more and more objective and less and less subjective. This is as true of mortal mind as it is of morontia mind. Morontia mind still is subjective and experientially and educationally based and dependent. The closer we get to Paradise and the further from animal birth, the more objective becomes our perspective – the more reality based it becomes.
This is the value of science and epochal revelation in conjunction with experience. We may not understand physics but experience will certainly teach us basic physics no matter our ignorance or lack of education….we will learn objectivity from physics or it will kill us as we learn it and learn it objectively.
I do not dispute our opinions and or the fact we are all too opinionated. The UB teaches us that ignorance and prejudice are the greatest inhibitors of growth. Opinionation is certainly an aspect of prejudice….love for one’s opinions and stubborn loyalty to them no matter how ignorant or stupid or detached from reality. But this does not mean we are only capable of opinions. Indeed not. We can learn. We are curious as to how things work. We have imagination and intuitions and insights in this life too!! This is as true of Adjutant Mind as it is of Morontia Mind….or at least potentially and is easily observed in our children. It is wonderful to watch a baby’s awareness develop spatial and cause/effect, and a child’s learning and conquering basic physics from raw gravity to angular momentum!!
Remember, even celestials have opinions and mysteries!! And conjecture and discovery! And Ah-Ha and Eureka moments of realization. Our tadpole perspective is, or should be, far more objective than merely opinion! Especially those tadpoles with epochal revelation and scientific knowledge as their sources of objective perspective of universe realities!!
It is not opinions that are traps of prejudice….it is our blind loyalty and unreasoned grip upon our opinions that are unworthy and counter productive. The forming of opinions should come by way of logic, reason, and experience or they are hardly opinions worthy of the having and are more likely parroted from someone else and are therefore unreasoned and unreasonable and indefensible. The defense of one’s reasoned opinions is a great exercise in learning and adapting and reforming new opinions that reach closer to objective realities.
Nothing wrong with opinions….at least not mine……HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
. . . the more objective becomes our perspective – the more reality based it becomes.
That could also be stated the other way around – the more reality attuned our personality becomes, the more objective its perspective.
Not to change the subject, but isn’t opinion also related to judgment? Individual opinion is based upon one person’s experiential judgment, but collective opinion can become devastatingly judgmental, even punitive. This is why TUB recommends that government not depend upon opinion polls, which is unfortunately how the US government runs, presumably due to the way too frequent election cycle. And isn’t it amazing how a completely benign personal opinion can offend so many into utter outrage? Why is that?
(970.5) 88:3.4 The insignia of priestly and kingly office were eventually regarded as fetishes, and the fetish of the state supreme has passed through many stages of development, from clans to tribes, from suzerainty to sovereignty, from totems to flags. Fetish kings have ruled by “divine right,” and many other forms of government have obtained. Men have also made a fetish of democracy, the exaltation and adoration of the common man’s ideas when collectively called “public opinion.” One man’s opinion, when taken by itself, is not regarded as worth much, but when many men are collectively functioning as a democracy, this same mediocre judgment is held to be the arbiter of justice and the standard of righteousness.
“…increasing probabilities of approximation.” Now there’s a mouthful!!
Quite a description of increasing our objectivity by knowledge plus experience.
The current section of text we study makes clear that only an integrated and balanced perspective from both within and without tempered by an experienced and unifying philosophy can begin to attain such probabilities of approximation…or increasing objectivity.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
So what is an “integrated and balanced perspective”? Would that be a true perspective as described in this quote:
(215.3) 19:1.6 . . . The true perspective of any reality problem — human or divine, terrestrial or cosmic — can be had only by the full and unprejudiced study and correlation of three phases of universe reality: origin, history, and destiny. The proper understanding of these three experiential realities affords the basis for a wise estimate of the current status.
I’m curious if you think the three phases of universe reality mentioned in the above quote, origin, history and destiny, are the same as energy, mind and spirit, and material things, intellectual meanings and spiritual values, mentioned in this quote:
(1120.2) 102:2.5 The mind perspective will not yield the existential unity of the source of reality, the First Source and Center, but it can and sometime will portray to man the experiential synthesis of energy, mind, and spirit in and as the Supreme Being. But mind can never succeed in this unification of the diversity of reality unless such mind is firmly aware of material things, intellectual meanings, and spiritual values; only in the harmony of the triunity of functional reality is there unity, and only in unity is there the personality satisfaction of the realization of cosmic constancy and consistency.
Doesn’t an “integrated and balanced perspective” require recognition of the triunity of functional reality? Don’t we need to use both of our gifted minds in order to attain that harmony?
I’m sorry to keep harping on the triune approach to reality and the necessity to strive to access one’s own soul. I’m sure everyone is tired of hearing it over and over again, but the world badly needs a new perspective. The only way I know to lift the mired minds of mankind is to stress the importance of developing a cosmic perspective. One cannot have a cosmic perspective without engaging one’s cosmic mind.
All the fuss over activating or unifying adjutants does nothing to further this desperate and urgent necessity. In fact, it only fosters the mortal perspective, the very perspective which denies the personality the third lens of cosmic acuity. Without it, the mind functions on a two-dimensional level, not much better than an animal. If it were not for personality, that’s exactly where adjutant fixation would lead the mind, to just a slightly better place than Gene’s dog – and that’s only because personality has the unique ability to watch itself think. But why watch your navel, or your chakras, when you can watch your mind and personality engage in a cosmic relationship with TRUTH? TRUTH can only be found in the co-creative soul. It cannot be found in any rhythmic pulsation of adjutant orgasm.
Can’t copy and paste right now but please read 12:8.14 to end of Paper 12 for confirmations of Bonita’s posts above. 8.14 came this morning as my Thought to Ponder for the day.
It is only by the lens and truth realizations of personality that mortals may grow, transform, survive, and fuse.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Thanks Bradly. I bring particular attention to 12:8.8 which informs us that: ” . . . . the ability to co-ordinate things, ideas, and values, is supermaterial.”
The only way to obtain an “integrated and balanced perspective” of triune reality is on the supermaterial level. What is the supermaterial level? It is the soul. Without spiritual partnership our personalities languish, only slightly better than the animals, weighed by material gravity while part of us yearns to be liberated from it. How best to do that, one might ask?
Some swear the best way is to spread the revelation, to put as many books in as many places, in as many languages as possible. It is my opinion that this merely gets the boat near the shore but does not dock it in safe harbor. How many people, how very many people, read TUB and come away with unbalanced, unintegrated ideas? Ideas like orbiting space ships filled with midwayers emailing messages to fused mortals who have been given special dispensation to spread truth, either by themselves or by channeling more experienced celestials. And ideas equally unbalanced as messiahs, prophets and apostles of God who feel ordained to save lost souls, and the world itself, through shame, guilt and brow-beating until a TUB collective is formed. (Reminds me of the Borg.) Then there are those who believe there are mystical secret messages hidden within the words, names and numbers of the text. And finally, let’s not forget the raping angels and devil-train of satanic possession. What to do with all this noise?
Granted, TUB in its own right gives us a cosmic perspective, but it too is two dimensional until it comes to life within the soul, the third lens. That’s where living truth has a personality who can be experienced by our mortal personality in a relationship. Truth is a relationship. Shouldn’t we be helping people realize this? Without it, the text of TUB only takes us to the shoreline.
I think the new generation of TUB leaders must come up with a way to dock the boat and walk ashore, to reveal more about the soul and the spirit who lives there while demystify the prayer of communion. I’m talking about actually living the living truth, sharing it one-on-one. This is something that can be done with or without the book itself. It can be done in person or on the internet. But it must be done, or at least begun.
The concept of the soul is ancient. Most people accept the idea on some level. It has such a wealth of possibilities . . .
Thanks Bradly. I bring particular attention to 12:8.8 which informs us that: ” . . . . the ability to co-ordinate things, ideas, and values, is supermaterial.” The only way to obtain an “integrated and balanced perspective” of triune reality is on the supermaterial level. What is the supermaterial level?It is the soul.
“It seems that whenever unity is considered it is triune in nature and on many levels or situations or incidents or events there results some sort of a superadditive when unity happens.” For us its all about the Supreme. How many Triunities are there – 16, 18??
Without spiritual partnership our personalities languish, only slightly better than the animals, weighed by material gravity while part of us yearns to be liberated from it. How best to do that, one might ask?
“Id say just keep trying to reach up, kind of like from paper 37 about getting to know Seraphim – things analagous to learning to love above the animal emotional or passionate level. Like Jesus tried to teach us. Or just keep trying because intentions matter more.”
Some swear the best way is to spread the revelation, to put as many books in as many places, in as many languages as possible. It is my opinion that this merely gets the boat near the shore but does not dock it in safe harbor. How many people, how very many people, read TUB and come away with unbalanced, unintegrated ideas? Ideas like orbiting space ships filled with midwayers emailing messages to fused mortals who have been given special dispensation to spread truth, either by themselves or by channeling more experienced celestials. And ideas equally unbalanced as messiahs, prophets and apostles of God who feel ordained to save lost souls, and the world itself, through shame, guilt and brow-beating until a TUB collective is formed. (Reminds me of the Borg.) Then there are those who believe there are mystical secret messages hidden within the words, names and numbers of the text. And finally, let’s not forget the raping angels and devil-train of satanic possession. What to do with all this noise?
“I have known more than one of these and its not just the individual that claims to be sanctioned by Mel, its his followers that carry out his commands. Arent we warned about the direction that the zeal induced by experience with the 6th Adjutant can be taken by weak minds?”
Granted, TUB in its own right gives us a cosmic perspective, but it too is two dimensional until it comes to life within the soul, the third lens. That’s where living truth has a personality who can be experienced by our mortal personality in a relationship. Truth is a relationship. Shouldn’t we be helping people realize this? Without it, the text of TUB only takes us to the shoreline. I think the new generation of TUB leaders must come up with a way to dock the boat and walk ashore, to reveal more about the soul and the spirit who lives there while demystify the prayer of communion. I’m talking about actually living the living truth, sharing it one-on-one. This is something that can be done with or without the book itself. It can be done in person or on the internet. But it must be done, or at least begun. The concept of the soul is ancient. Most people accept the idea on some level. It has such a wealth of possibilities . . .
“Simple teachings that have been with us for 0ver 200 centuries – The Golden Rule as well as really being a Second Miler are what we are told the human race has not tried yet. When we finally do in “unity” there will be a super additive – the begining of light and life. Its also our only survival tool, our ability to learn how to let go of so many material things that appear to have overwhelming gravity.” Its regretable that so few people ——– you know the rest of that one.
Bonita said:
“Then there are those who believe there are mystical secret messages hidden within the words, names and numbers of the text”
I will say this: you can search how many times the various authors tell us about something “unrevealed”.
then throughout the book you can find hints that are suggestive of what is unrevealed. Like giving us a puzzle to solve.
they are either violating the mandate that limits what they can reveal, (I really don’t believe that) the information really has no meaning for us or they are coaxing us to use our intellect to figure out something or in other words to read between the lines. A challenge to find out more subtle details.
103:7.7 (1138.5) What both developing science and religion need is more searching and fearless self-criticism, a greater awareness of incompleteness in evolutionary status. The teachers of both science and religion are often altogether too self-confident and dogmatic. Science and religion can only be self-critical of their facts. The moment departure is made from the stage of facts, reason abdicates or else rapidly degenerates into a consort of false logic.
103:7.8 (1138.6) The truth—an understanding of cosmic relationships, universe facts, and spiritual values—can best be had through the ministry of the Spirit of Truth and can best be criticized by revelation. But revelation originates neither a science nor a religion; its function is to co-ordinate both science and religion with the truth of reality. Always, in the absence of revelation or in the failure to accept or grasp it, has mortal man resorted to his futile gesture of metaphysics, that being the only human substitute for the revelation of truth or for the mota of morontia personality.
103:7.9 (1139.1) The science of the material world enables man to control, and to some extent dominate, his physical environment. The religion of the spiritual experience is the source of the fraternity impulse which enables men to live together in the complexities of the civilization of a scientific age. Metaphysics, but more certainly revelation, affords a common meeting ground for the discoveries of both science and religion and makes possible the human attempt logically to correlate these separate but interdependent domains of thought into a well-balanced philosophy of scientific stability and religious certainty.
103:7.10 (1139.2) In the mortal state, nothing can be absolutely proved; both science and religion are predicated on assumptions. On the morontia level, the postulates of both science and religion are capable of partial proof by mota logic. On the spiritual level of maximum status, the need for finite proof gradually vanishes before the actual experience of and with reality; but even then there is much beyond the finite that remains unproved.
103:7.11 (1139.3) All divisions of human thought are predicated on certain assumptions which are accepted, though unproved, by the constitutive reality sensitivity of the mind endowment of man. Science starts out on its vaunted career of reasoning by assuming the reality of three things: matter, motion, and life. Religion starts out with the assumption of the validity of three things: mind, spirit, and the universe—the Supreme Being.
Me here: What is the “constitutive reality sensitivity of the mind endowment of man.”?????
We are told the mind will invent fictional facts to form a framework of concepts from which to perceive reality if real facts and knowledge are lacking. Is reality sensitivity a form of internal confirmation of truth from an external source such as the Holy Spirit or Spirit of Truth or TA?
Notice the definition of truth above includes “universe facts”. Interesting.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Me here: What is the “constitutive reality sensitivity of the mind endowment of man.”?????
It’s this, isn’t it:
16:6.4 There exists in all personality associations of the cosmic mind a quality which might be denominated the “reality response.” It is this universal cosmic endowment of will creatures which saves them from becoming helpless victims of the implied a priori assumptions of science, philosophy, and religion. This reality sensitivity of the cosmic mind responds to certain phases of reality just as energy-material responds to gravity. It would be still more correct to say that these supermaterial realities so respond to the mind of the cosmos.
Thanks Bonita…
The problem with reality sensitivity is the certainty with which some folk embrace falsehood, fantasy, illusion, and delusion. We read not long ago how the mind will invent false “facts” in order to bring structure to perspective and we know how committed certain scientist, theologians, and philosophers are to inventions of mind without basis in reality. The UB warns us of the dangers of giving false credence to dream state imaginings and the ability of the subconscious to construct false memories and false realities.
So I wonder how does one differentiate the reality response and our human grip upon fantasy?
Last text of Section 7 – Science and Religion:
103:7.12 (1139.4) Science becomes the thought domain of mathematics, of the energy and material of time in space. Religion assumes to deal not only with finite and temporal spirit but also with the spirit of eternity and supremacy. Only through a long experience in mota can these two extremes of universe perception be made to yield analogous interpretations of origins, functions, relations, realities, and destinies. The maximum harmonization of the energy-spirit divergence is in the encircuitment of the Seven Master Spirits; the first unification thereof, in the Deity of the Supreme; the finality unity thereof, in the infinity of the First Source and Center, the I AM.
103:7.13 (1139.5) Reason is the act of recognizing the conclusions of consciousness with regard to the experience in and with the physical world of energy and matter. Faith is the act of recognizing the validity of spiritual consciousness—something which is incapable of other mortal proof. Logic is the synthetic truth-seeking progression of the unity of faith and reason and is founded on the constitutive mind endowments of mortal beings, the innate recognition of things, meanings, and values.
103:7.14 (1139.6) There is a real proof of spiritual reality in the presence of the Thought Adjuster, but the validity of this presence is not demonstrable to the external world, only to the one who thus experiences the indwelling of God. The consciousness of the Adjuster is based on the intellectual reception of truth, the supermind perception of goodness, and the personality motivation to love.
103:7.15 (1139.7) Science discovers the material world, religion evaluates it, and philosophy endeavors to interpret its meanings while co-ordinating the scientific material viewpoint with the religious spiritual concept. But history is a realm in which science and religion may never fully agree.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
So I wonder how does one differentiate the reality response and our human grip upon fantasy?
Are you asking how to tell the difference between truth and error?
Yes. Or between reality and delusion or reality and metaphysical fictions.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Well, the very first thing that pops into my head is the fact that error cannot be acted out because it is not real. That surely leads to frustration, resentment, anger, fear and a host of other human emotions which all add up to miserable.
Then there’s that list beginning at 91:7.5 that pretty much sums up the experience of living in realville. Seems to me if you’re sick, confused, unhappy and don’t enjoy other people because all you can do is find fault with them or their way of life; if the world seems to be constantly letting you down and you see a bogie man around every corner, then you’re more’n likely livin’ a lie.
Reality is a joy, a peace, a fulfillment of hope and overflowing with beauty and goodness. What do you think?
The metaphysical fiction thing is a slippery slope because it’s there to fill the gap caused by a lack of mota, or recognition of revelation (and we know truth, aka reality, is always a revelation.) Take the caveman for instance. He lived a really miserable life, in constant fear of upsetting the ghosts. Ghost fear metaphysics filled the space which would otherwise be an empty abyss to those poor souls. You gotta give the caveman some slack.
Same applies today. There are people walking this earth now who, for one reason or another, have not discovered revelation, have not recognized it if they did, are uninterested in finding it or are not spiritual enough to know they should try. Those people kinda need metaphysics, sorry to say. But my own personal opinion is that there are plenty of people who are just too cowardly to give some of it up, like in this quote:
101.7.4 The great difference between a religious and a nonreligious philosophy of living consists in the nature and level of recognized values and in the object of loyalties. There are four phases in the evolution of religious philosophy: Such an experience may become merely conformative, resigned to submission to tradition and authority. Or it may be satisfied with slight attainments, just enough to stabilize the daily living, and therefore becomes early arrested on such an adventitious level. Such mortals believe in letting well enough alone. A third group progress to the level of logical intellectuality but there stagnate in consequence of cultural slavery. It is indeed pitiful to behold giant intellects held so securely within the cruel grasp of cultural bondage. It is equally pathetic to observe those who trade their cultural bondage for the materialistic fetters of a science, falsely so called. The fourth level of philosophy attains freedom from all conventional and traditional handicaps and dares to think, act, and live honestly, loyally, fearlessly, and truthfully.
Then there are also those who gain psychologically from metaphysics and are thus forced to hold onto it in order to keep their psyche from imploding.
