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Calling All Philosophers

249 posts · 14 participants · started Jan 13, 2016, 1:00 PM

  1. Any philosophy that doesn’t recognize and adopt them as universal standards is off the mark and doomed to ignominy.

    As usual, the points I spend so much time on explaining are totally lost on my readers.  I never said that philosophy should not recognize and adopt TBG.  What I said is that there is more than TBG to be considered.  TBG are the overlying values to be applied to matter, mind and spirit; they are not the philosophy itself but one factor in its development.  In order to make a philosophy, you also have to consider the physical world, the intellect and religion (causation, duty and worship).

    There are only three elements of reality: fact, idea and relation.  In making a philosophy you have to consider all three elements of reality.  If you don’t, you’ll lose people, and maybe that’s why no one has any interest in the subject.  Ya gotta have something they can relate to, something in the real world, not just in the ether.

    Forgive me for not including the quotes.  I can’t deal with the formatting issue and I have a foot of snow to shovel, another foot on the way.  Nice chatting. Thanks for the response.  See you later if I don’t slip a disc.   :-)

     

  2. As usual, the points I spend so much time on explaining are totally lost on my readers. I never said that philosophy should not recognize and adopt TBG. What I said is that there is more than TBG to be considered. TBG are the overlying values to be applied to matter, mind and spirit; they are not the philosophy itself but one factor in its development. In order to make a philosophy, you also have to consider the physical world, the intellect and religion (causation, duty and worship). There are only three elements of reality: fact, idea and relation. In making a philosophy you have to consider all three elements of reality. If you don’t, you’ll lose people, and maybe that’s why no one has any interest in the subject. Ya gotta have something they can relate to, something in the real world, not just in the ether. Forgive me for not including the quotes. I can’t deal with the formatting issue and I have a foot of snow to shovel, another foot on the way. Nice chatting. Thanks for the response. See you later if I don’t slip a disc. :-)

    Careful there! You better move down south where winters have all but disappeared. Hope you are warm and well stocked. Evidently you have power.

    So now we’re discussing the breadth of philosophy. We’ve already stipulated what the authors declare, that it is the reconciler of science and religion. Science includes the physical, in fact, nothing else in its current state. Religion necessarily embraces goodness. And philosophy itself is beauty’s greatest observer, analyzer, and advocate. TB&G are inclusive of philosophy, not the reverse, I submit.

    Bringing philosophy down to the level of the average person is the responsibility of teachers (all of us at some point), who, in order to succeed, must observe the Master’s advice to give milk to babes, and presumably, solid food to the mature.  Eventually, I believe, the appeal and necessity of philosophy will triumph and it will be taught from kindergarten to the grave. Some good teachers, teachers with genuine talent for it, can make just about any subject palatable.

    Yesterday I was inspired by comments about teaching by a reader on Facebook, which have resonance with some of your words. She wrote in part:

    …My best teachers were able to make the subject relevant to me, the individual, while showing me how my participation, in understanding the relative truth of the course, could help me benefit my fellowman. For example, my greatest history teacher let the musically inclined create and perform the music of the period, those who were speakers, narrated the history of the times, while those philosophically versed, narrated the ” thinking” of that time period.. Therefore, most were thrilled that their personal ” talent ” was being used in the comprehensive effort to understand a distant people and their mark on history. Since we were asked, to use our distinct talents, history became relevant to us. In addition, I have noticed, a great love for one’s fellowman seems to be the prerequisite of a great philosophy or teacher. In my experience, great mentors engage their pupils with a sense that they are an important part of the process. To me philosophy is the art of thinking and we all think somewhat differently. Consequently, I have come to recognize personal philosophy, wisely, coordinated by truth, goodness and beauty, also, as an individualized ” talent ” with individualized resources in music, science, social studies, dance, art, labor, parenting, teaching etc. If we speak to people about what is important to them, they gradually unfold their personal insight and their progressive philosophy of life. Then, the teacher may nurture this learning process, while encouraging the coordinating factors of enlightened insight.

     

    Richard E Warren

  3. Rick Warren wrote: So now we’re discussing the breadth of philosophy. We’ve already stipulated what the authors declare, that it is the reconciler of science and religion. Science includes the physical, in fact, nothing else in its current state. Religion necessarily embraces goodness. And philosophy itself is beauty’s greatest observer, analyzer, and advocate. TB&G are inclusive of philosophy, not the reverse, I submit.

    I’m wondering if you might humor me by discussing the following quote:

    2:6.1 In the physical universe we may see the divine beauty, in the intellectual world we may discern eternal truth, but the goodness of God is found only in the spiritual world of personal religious experience. In its true essence, religion is a faith-trust in the goodness of God. God could be great and absolute, somehow even intelligent and personal, in philosophy, but in religion God must also be moral; he must be good. Man might fear a great God, but he trusts and loves only a good God. This goodness of God is a part of the personality of God, and its full revelation appears only in the personal religious experience of the believing sons of God.

    Looking just at beauty of the triad TBG:  The physical world is more than science, as you say.  The physical world also needs a triune approach coordinated by philosophy.  The material facts and things of the physical world need to be reasoned with the mind and then coordinated with its reflection of divine beauty (the Isle of Paradise), a value discovered in the inner life with the Adjuster.  This is the role of philosophy, to integrate the facts and things reasoned by mind with the insight of divine beauty experienced in the soul.

    I don’t know if I’m making any sense.  I try to explain things in as many different ways as I can come up with, but then it often sounds like I’m arguing, or worse, conceited and dogmatic about my opinions, and then I lose everyone. (Even been called acerbic and abrasive.) So, if you can’t see this point I’m trying to make about beauty, then I think I’ll just let it go and move on to other topics. No problem.

    [And thanks for your concern about my well-being Rick.  You’ve always been a gentleman and I want you to know how wonderful it is to know one.  Three hours to make the first pass, two more passes to go . . . I have plenty of hot chocolate and brownies to get me through, like  dangling a carrot in front of a mule.  BTW, there are too many bugs in the south and I’d rather shovel than deal with hurricanes and tornados.  I’m staying right here, God willing. Actually, I’m stuck here.  Roads are closed. But it is beautiful, paradisiacal  actually, now that I’m sitting in front of the fire.  It’s all good, and that’s the truth.]

  4. Thanks Bonita, glad you’re ok, and I will humor you. But tomorrow, gotta run now. Chat amongst yourselves. ;-)

    Richard E Warren

  5. This is the role of philosophy, to integrate the facts and things reasoned by mind with the insight of divine beauty experienced in the soul.

    As you say above Bonita, that the role of philosophy is: “to integrate the facts and things reasoned by mind with the insight of divine beauty experienced in the soul.” Where you indicate that “philosophy” has a role to play in the soul’s experience, or so I read it, in short.  Mara presented a UB quote which kind of defined the role of philosophy as an association with religion, in the following:  ‘. . . “Philosophy is to religion as conception is to action.” . . .’ (98:2.12)  In essence what you have said above is true and somewhat the same thing in my assessment.  If religion can be associated to action, or in this case “religious experience” would reside in the soul as the ‘soul experiences’ which has ‘integrated’ with “conception” where a concept has many definitions which can include “facts”, the minds ‘reasoning’ with “insight” that can be associated with a reasonable amount of imagination, or ideas, as one attempts to create a conceptual action plan, or theory about some specific ‘thing’, or thought.  So, that’s my understand of your statement.

    “I don’t know if I’m making any sense. I try to explain things in as many different ways as I can come up with, but then it often sounds like I’m arguing, or worse, conceited and dogmatic about my opinions, and then I lose everyone. (Even been called acerbic and abrasive.) So, if you can’t see this point I’m trying to make about beauty, then I think I’ll just let it go . . .”

    Of coarse you are making sense, but sometimes in explaining “things in as many different ways as” one can, which I also attempt to do as well, and heaven knows that “I lose everyone” from time to time, because I have a certain philosophical approach to thinking which has been conceived from many years of ‘religious experience’, to use a UB term.  That being said, you indicate that you have a point to make about “beauty” which is still “in the eye of the beholder” and just because we don’t all see “beauty” the same way does not mean that it does not exist in association with other conceptions.

    It might appear that differences in opinion are the same thing as saying that “if you are not with me, then you are against me,” and I don’t believe that this is the case, because as you have mentioned before that one must get to know another before they can truly understand each other.  And by the posts on this forum, where your opinion and knowledge is much respected and appreciated, it is still comes from your religious experience, and is most useful to all, even if sometimes there is not 100% agreement.

    . . . BTW, there are too many bugs in the south and I’d rather shovel than deal with hurricanes and tornados. I’m staying right here, God willing. Actually, I’m stuck here. Roads are closed. But it is beautiful, paradisiacal actually, now that I’m sitting in front of the fire. It’s all good, and that’s the truth.

    I must agree, although for different reasons.  For me it was the heat, having lived in Florida for 32 years.  Fortunately I live a little bit further north from you and don’t have to deal with the two plus feet of snow as you do.  As it turns out I’ll get about four to six inches, but my snow blower should handle that well enough as it has seen more in the past. I hope that you have someone who can help you with the snow removal, if not I’m sure there are enough young persons who would like a few bucks for work, now that your state has allowed for youth labor without needing to have a business license, as was an issue in the past.  Good luck, and enjoy the “hot chocolate and brownies.”

     

     

  6. This is the role of philosophy, to integrate the facts and things reasoned by mind with the insight of divine beauty experienced in the soul.

    Not to nit pick but isn’t it personality doing this and philosophy is just how it gets talked about?

    dont recall personality being mentioned yet but it seems appropriate to me.

  7. Not to nit pick but isn’t it personality doing this and philosophy is just how it gets talked about?

    Interesting conception “Gene” where it seems that your presumption of “philosophy” might indicate something which can be debated by one to another.  This may be true to some degree, but in that case one might presume that there would be a specific subject of category being talked about.  A persons personality can contribute to a philosophic discussion and a persons experience may affect their personality, but personality is much more than a philosophy.

    From the section titled “The Cosmic Mind” we have the following which may shed some light on your premise.

    (192.6) 16:6.10  In the local universe mind bestowals, these three insights of the cosmic mind constitute the a priori assumptions which make it possible for man to function as a rational and self-conscious personality in the realms of science, philosophy, and religion. Stated otherwise, the recognition of the reality of these three manifestations of the Infinite is by a cosmic technique of self-revelation. Matter-energy is recognized by the mathematical logic of the senses; mind-reason intuitively knows its moral duty; spirit-faith (worship) is the religion of the reality of spiritual experience. These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions. But when they become unified, they produce a strong character consisting in the correlation of a factual science, a moral philosophy, and a genuine religious experience. And it is these three cosmic intuitions that give objective validity, reality, to man’s experience in and with things, meanings, and values.

     

  8. In my opinion personality does much more than contribute to discussion. It is the discussion. It is the coordinator and the integrator.

    philosophy is nothing, merely a concept without personality. Philosophy cannot take any action, make use of mind or accomplish anything.

  9. I’m wondering if you might humor me by discussing the following quote:

    2:6.1 In the physical universe we may see the divine beauty, in the intellectual world we may discern eternal truth, but the goodness of God is found only in the spiritual world of personal religious experience. In its true essence, religion is a faith-trust in the goodness of God. God could be great and absolute, somehow even intelligent and personal, in philosophy, but in religion God must also be moral; he must be good. Man might fear a great God, but he trusts and loves only a good God. This goodness of God is a part of the personality of God, and its full revelation appears only in the personal religious experience of the believing sons of God.

    Looking just at beauty of the triad TBG: The physical world is more than science, as you say. The physical world also needs a triune approach coordinated by philosophy. The material facts and things of the physical world need to be reasoned with the mind and then coordinated with its reflection of divine beauty (the Isle of Paradise), a value discovered in the inner life with the Adjuster. This is the role of philosophy, to integrate the facts and things reasoned by mind with the insight of divine beauty experienced in the soul. I don’t know if I’m making any sense. I try to explain things in as many different ways as I can come up with, but then it often sounds like I’m arguing, or worse, conceited and dogmatic about my opinions, and then I lose everyone. (Even been called acerbic and abrasive.) So, if you can’t see this point I’m trying to make about beauty, then I think I’ll just let it go and move on to other topics. No problem.

    Hmmm…can’t see where we diverge on this, Bonita. You said it as well as a UB author: “…This is the role of philosophy, to integrate the facts and things reasoned by mind [science] with the insight of divine beauty experienced in the soul [religion].”

    [And thanks for your concern about my well-being Rick. You’ve always been a gentleman and I want you to know how wonderful it is to know one. Three hours to make the first pass, two more passes to go . . . I have plenty of hot chocolate and brownies to get me through, like dangling a carrot in front of a mule. BTW, there are too many bugs in the south and I’d rather shovel than deal with hurricanes and tornados. I’m staying right here, God willing. Actually, I’m stuck here. Roads are closed. But it is beautiful, paradisiacal actually, now that I’m sitting in front of the fire. It’s all good, and that’s the truth.]

    Ha! Understood, and we’ll be envious of you this summer (more truth).

    Richard E Warren

  10. Thanks for indulging me Rick.  I guess we’re just describing the same thing differently.  My only point in trying to expand the issue is to find a way to describe TBG as the building blocks of a worthwhile philosophy in such a way that would want people to think and talk about it. You said you have difficulty getting people interested, and that’s probably because they don’t see the connection between the physical world and the spiritual world.  The words “truth, beauty and goodness,” are just words.  They’re meaningless without something living to relate them to.

    I think most people have a good handle on the physical or material level of thinking, but trying to find the ideal value (TBG) to marry it to is much harder.  Usually the best the average person does is try to make a moral issue out of physical facts, things and ideas, which is a good start, but not good enough to deliver the prize.  What you’re trying to do is get people to think with their souls, and if people don’t understand what a soul is, then there is another problem worth educating them about.  I think TBG are soul level ideals.

    Jesus was a master at getting people to think with their souls; he used parables to wake up the gateway to the soul.  I’m not capable of that, and few are, so there’s another conundrum. I’m wondering if story telling would come close, offering real life issues that can be linked to higher values in a philosophical way rather than an ideological way.  It’s a challenge, but I think someone out there might be able to do it.  We need good teachers, or examples.  And for now, I think that will primarily be a one-on-one phenomenon.

    Enjoyed the chat.  Thanks.

  11. Learned a lot and also enjoyed it, thanks Bonita, and everyone who read or chimed in! Somehow, we know, philosophy will return to its rightful place in Urantian culture. When is the only variable. It’s important enough that the authors include it in this fairly ominous, and seemingly prescient, warning:

    …Civilization is in danger when youth neglect to interest themselves in ethics, sociology, eugenics, philosophy, the fine arts, religion, and cosmology…. (1220.3) 111:4.4

    Education, education, quality education, eh?

     

    Richard E Warren

  12. In my opinion personality does much more than contribute to discussion. It is the discussion. It is the coordinator and the integrator. philosophy is nothing, merely a concept without personality. Philosophy cannot take any action, make use of mind or accomplish anything.

     

    Greetings Gene!!…and thanks to all!

    Philosophy is like religion (and science too) in that all concepts related to each are dead and without meaning or value until those concepts are actualized by our living.  When they determine our motives, intentions, and priorities for our free will choices, then and only then, do they bring results.  To believe is not yet to act on belief.   As has been said redundantly and eloquently here, philosophy unites, integrates, and harmonizes our dual nature and reality of living in the spirit and living in the material world and when based on universe fact and truth, it propels us into action….it is a cause with effect if acted upon and actualized in experience I think.  Rodan says something similar regarding religion….it changes me in my hopes and priorities – and it motivates me to choose and act accordingly.

    I think everyone has a philosophy of living…some are purely material (might makes right, eye for an eye, he who dies with the most toys wins, money/pleasures delivers happiness etc.) while others abandon the realities of material living for the purely aesthetic life of the mystic or monk, embracing the spiritual but abandoning the material life as illusionary.  But both extremes miss the point of this life…and all life.  It is not one or the other but the harmonization and balance of both that delivers peace of mind and happiness.  I think the pursuit of happiness is a powerful driver of choice…and that experience should teach us that only love and service will deliver that which we seek most.

    There was a season when I believed that serving God was my task…..I have revised this belief by realizing that God’s will and way is to serve his family and creation like a trusting child in a family of such children who take delight in playing, learning, working, and sharing all together in a blissful and confident way.  Philosophy, when based upon this universe reality, remains very personal and experiential while gaining wisdom and power by the fruits of the spirit which are delivered by such a WAY of living.  We all have our own WAY and our own path to realize such a truth and to live such truth.  Or so I think.

    Thanks again to all….a wonderful topic and discussion.

    ;-)

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  13. Gene wrote:  [Bonita wrote: This is the role of philosophy, to integrate the facts and things reasoned by mind with the insight of divine beauty experienced in the soul.]
    Not to nit pick but isn’t it personality doing this and philosophy is just how it gets talked about?
    dont recall personality being mentioned yet but it seems appropriate to me.
    I think too there must be a person involved when talking about philosophy, otherwise it all too abstract, too intellectual.  Interpretations of what is true, what is beautiful, what is good, occur along the continuum of a living person — all the parts of human creature endowment.
    44:7:3  Cosmic concepts of true philosophy, the portrayal of celestial artistry, or the mortal attempt to depict the human recognition of divine beauty can never be truly satisfying if such attempted creature progression is ununified. These expressions of the divine urge within the evolving creature may be intellectually true, emotionally beautiful, and spiritually good; but the real soul of expression is absent unless these realities of truth, meanings of beauty, and values of goodness are unified in the life experience of the artisan, the scientist, or the philosopher.
    .
    We mustn’t forget personhood.  Since personality is unique and since each one of us experience life in a unique way, it stands to reason each person contributes unique factors of truth, beauty and goodness to the growth of the Supreme Being.
    .
    111:3:2  During the life in the flesh the evolving soul is enabled to reinforce the supermaterial decisions of the mortal mind. The soul, being supermaterial, does not of itself function on the material level of human experience. Neither can this subspiritual soul, without the collaboration of some spirit of Deity, such as the Adjuster, function above the morontia level. Neither does the soul make final decisions until death or translation divorces it from material association with the mortal mind except when and as this material mind delegates such authority freely and willingly to such a morontia soul of associated function. During life the mortal will, the personality power of decision-choice, is resident in the material mind circuits; as terrestrial mortal growth proceeds, this self, with its priceless powers of choice, becomes increasingly identified with the emerging morontia-soul entity; after death and following the mansion world resurrection, the human personality is completely identified with the morontia self. The soul is thus the embryo of the future morontia vehicle of personality identity.
    The soul, being supermaterial, does not of itself function on the material level of human experience.
    .
    117:2:1  The Supreme is God-in-time; his is the secret of creature growth in time; his also is the conquest of the incomplete present and the consummation of the perfecting future. And the final fruits of all finite growth are: power controlled through mind by spirit by virtue of the unifying and creative presence of personality. The culminating consequence of all this growth is the Supreme Being.
    Jesus’ personality:
    100:7:18  Jesus was the perfectly unified human personality. And today, as in Galilee, he continues to unify mortal experience and to co-ordinate human endeavors. He unifies life, ennobles character, and simplifies experience. He enters the human mind to elevate, transform, and transfigure it. It is literally true: “If any man has Christ Jesus within him, he is a new creature; old things are passing away; behold, all things are becoming new.”
  14. Excellent additions Gene, Brad, Mara,

    When you think about, not much has meaning or value without the presupposition of personhood/personality, including philosophy. Beauty requires a beholder, goodness is certainly a personal attribute, and truth cannot be known, explored or lived by an automaton.

    Evidently, persons require philosophy. It is the great integrator of personally recognized meanings, values and destinies (purpose). The quality of one’s personal philosophy necessarily hinges genetics, experience, motivation and revelation. Therefore the highest quality human philosophy would be expressed in a person with a preponderance of Adamic DNA, well rounded education and training, wholly spiritually inspired, and with full access to the truths and trials of existence. No?

     

     

     

    Richard E Warren

  15. Yes, Rick and the quality of one’s personal philosophy depends on honesty.  Jesus was a keen observer and he honestly considered everything he read, observed, heard and offered.  Psychological balance he modeled very well.  After all is said, it could assumed God desires honest balance for all we do.  That’s tough sometimes because it seems balance is a moving target.

    Wishing you all well while searching out balance.

     

  16. Thanks Mark,

    Good points you make. Honesty, integrity, loyalty, sincerity, have to be there in substantial measure to create a viable personal or global philosophy, we know that for sure.

    That’s the perfect metaphor: Balance is a moving target. Yet soo essential for any hope of happiness and progress amidst Urantia’s perennial, exasperating, frustrating, benighted, normally insane, turmoil. Let us feast :-)

    Love to you and Ms~

    Richard E Warren

  17. Rick Warren wrote: Therefore the highest quality human philosophy would be expressed in a person with a preponderance of Adamic DNA, well rounded education and training, wholly spiritually inspired, and with full access to the truths and trials of existence. No?

    No . . . wait.  Amadon did not have Adamic DNA, nor a well rounded education, or even that much in the way of smarts, yet he followed God’s will.  He had a truly lofty philosophy of living, as far as I can tell. One of the best.

    p757:2 67:3.9 Caligastia, with a maximum of intelligence and a vast experience in universe affairs, went astray – embraced sin. Amadon, with a minimum of intelligence and utterly devoid of universe experience, remained steadfast in the service of the universe and in loyalty to his associate.

    It’s not so much what you are, but what you are striving to become that really matters.  It’s all about the striving. A noble philosophy of living is one that is always striving for perfection.  If we are striving to find the highest concepts of TBG and then sincerely attempting to apply them to all the relationships in our lives (both people and things), then we are striving for perfection, for divinity, for doing God’s will.  That’s what I’d call a worthy philosophy of living.

    The goal of human living is divinity attainment and this can be done with normal DNA and normal mind. Even the environment is not that important, really.  Sometimes a very harsh environment results in greater striving.  It’s really all about the striving.  That’s what feeds the soul.

    p1216:6 111:1.5  And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.

    The best philosophy is to keep your eyes on the goal.

    p365:4 32:5.8 The goal of eternity is ahead! The adventure of divinity attainment lies before you! The race for perfection is on! whosoever will may enter, and certain victory will crown the efforts of every human being who will run the race of faith and trust, depending every step of the way on the leading of the indwelling Adjuster and on the guidance of that good spirit of the Universe Son, which so freely has been poured out upon all flesh.

    p1206:2 110:3.4 The great goal of human existence is to attune to the divinity of the indwelling Adjuster; the great achievement of mortal life is the attainment of a true and understanding consecration to the eternal aims of the divine spirit who waits and works within your mind.

  18. Good point (which I will gladly cede, but with rebuttal), Bonita,

    And also to your point, you didn’t mention Jesus, who we are told didn’t have pure violet blood, yet he would become the premier philosophy master in all Nebadon.

    Rebuttal: I did specify “the highest quality”.  And if one doesn’t happen to be a descending Son, doesn’t have access to a Van type, or the tree of life, then I believe my statement is ballpark correct. Otherwise we wouldn’t need genetic upstepping for better bodies and minds which might more readily and easily be host for Adjusters–because of a greater ability/capacity to grasp and live out divine values of TB&G.   But having less than ideal genes and life experience does not mean humans can’t find God who indwells them. On that we have no disagreement?

     

    Richard E Warren

  19. Sorry Rick.  I’m not following you.  If Jesus had the highest quality philosophy, then by your argument he would have had to have pure violet blood and the highest education possible.  The fact that he didn’t have either means that the highest attainable mortal philosophy of living is not entirely dependent upon DNA or education .

    Consider the following quote which states that spiritual evolution of the soul is not dependent upon education, mental culture or wisdom.  It’s based on the mental capacity to choose.  The ability to recognize choices, which means having a soul and a personality.  That’s all it takes, really.  I agree that the greater the mental and spiritual receptivity of the individual, the greater the odds that the individual will achieve the highest goal of a noble philosophy of living, but it is achievable regardless.

    65:8.4 As mind evolution is dependent on, and delayed by, the slow development of physical conditions, so is spiritual progress dependent on mental expansion and unfailingly delayed by intellectual retardation. But this does not mean that spiritual evolution is dependent on education, culture, or wisdom. The soul may evolve regardless of mental culture but not in the absence of mental capacity and desire – the choice of survival and the decision to achieve ever-increasing perfection – to do the will of the Father in heaven. Although survival may not depend on the possession of knowledge and wisdom, progression most certainly does.

    If you want to split hairs over what makes one individual have more of a capacity of receptivity than another, I would say it’s more about the person who is the most humble, childlike and trusting, the person willing to be led, the person dedicated to serving others, rather than DNA or education.

    Actually, they tell us that prayer is the way to increase one’s capacity of receptivity, and this can be done regardless of DNA or education, as Jesus made so evident with the choice of his apostles.  They were of many levels of intellect and inheritance.  And although it is admirable to strive for the highest level of spirituality and divinity, we ourselves cannot attain such a thing on conscious levels.  All true goodness is unconscious, all true growth is unconscious.  It’s the conditions that really matter, and the conditions are determined by the striving for perfection, a goal that actually never ends, and a goal that can be attempted and achieved with at least a normal DNA inheritance and education.

    They say that it is our characters that we inherit and that an inferior character cannot be easily compensated for by environment. But the inheritance of an ideal character can be ruined by a bad environment.  Yet, I don’t think God holds it against us for having a base heredity or an inferior environment.  Both can be compensated for by a desire for God’s help, which is what gave Cain his Adjuster.  I still think striving is the answer to discovering, recognizing, interpreting and choosing divine values. Ask and you shall receive, as Jesus said.

     848:6 76:2.6  The observation of Abel’s conduct establishes the value of environment and education as factors in character development. Abel had an ideal inheritance, and heredity lies at the bottom of all character; but the influence of an inferior environment virtually neutralized this magnificent inheritance. Abel, especially during his younger years, was greatly influenced by his unfavorable surroundings. He would have become an entirely different person had he lived to be twenty-five or thirty; his superb inheritance would then have shown itself. While a good environment cannot contribute much toward really overcoming the character handicaps of a base heredity, a bad environment can very effectively spoil an excellent inheritance, at least during the younger years of life. Good social environment and proper education are indispensable soil and atmosphere for getting the most out of a good inheritance.

     

  20. …If Jesus had the highest quality philosophy, then by your argument he would have had to have pure violet blood and the highest education possible. The fact that he didn’t have either means that the highest attainable mortal philosophy of living is not entirely dependent upon DNA or education.

    “Not entirely” we agree on. The potentials for all arenas of thought and experience (including philosophy) are increased with better DNA, or they wouldn’t bother sending Adam and Eves. Why is it the three brained have a spiritual advantage of two brainers? Better capacity.

    …While the terrestrial attainments of the one-brained races are slightly limited in comparison with the two-brained orders, the older planets of the three–brained group exhibit civilizations that would astound Urantians, and which would somewhat shame yours by comparison. In mechanical development and material civilization, even in intellectual progress, the two-brained mortal worlds are able to equal the three–brained spheres. But in the higher control of mind and development of intellectual and spiritual reciprocation, you are somewhat inferior…. 49:5:15

    Richard E Warren

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