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Calling All Philosophers

249 posts · 14 participants · started Jan 13, 2016, 1:00 PM

AnonymousInactive
Jan 19, 2016, 9:00 PM

Bonita wrote:

. . . I still think his scientific theories were only science though. There’s no mention of religion in his treatise on relativity. In order to qualify as philosophy there has to be some melding of both science and religion. [. . .]

I agree that “There’s no mention of religion in his treatise on relativity.” Nevertheless, there is a certain amount of “religious experience” involved within “philosophy” or the method by which one may deduce theory. Religious experience would not imply a practice of theology per say, but an understanding of God-consciousness, whether it be by use of the fragment of God within us or, by having spiritually-fused with that fragment whereby the person and the fragment are one. With the latter, the mind would have access to many other aspects and the cosmic mind and its attributes, which includes imagination which is vital to creative thinking.

(17.2) 0:12.13 We are fully cognizant of the difficulties of our assignment; we recognize the impossibility of fully translating the language of the concepts of divinity and eternity into the symbols of the language of the finite concepts of the mortal mind. But we know that there dwells within the human mind a fragment of God, and that there sojourns with the human soul the Spirit of Truth; and we further know that these spirit forces conspire to enable material man to grasp the reality of spiritual values and to comprehend the philosophy of universe meanings. But even more certainly we know that these spirits of the Divine Presence are able to assist man in the spiritual appropriation of all truth contributory to the enhancement of the ever-progressing reality of personal religious experience — God-consciousness.
GeneParticipant
Jan 20, 2016, 12:07 AM
If man is able to exercise scientific, moral and spiritual insight prior to all experimentation does this not give us a hint that in regard to the scientific-material realities, secrets of the universe, can come to a man like Einstein similar to revelation? If not then what is the mechanism, just mental exercise? He is obviously using cosmic mind in addition to his material mind.

Mind, matter and spirit are all equally real. Discovering them without experimentation or experience certainly has interesting implications.
Mark KurtzParticipant
Jan 20, 2016, 1:11 AM
Perhaps the 4th Adjutant Mind Spirit is more efficient with high intelligence and advanced knowledge. The more we know the more we have questions and the more questions the more evidence of curiosity. How far could this go?
BonitaParticipant
Jan 20, 2016, 3:07 PM
I believe Einstein stated that he was heavily influenced by David Hume’s “A Treatise of Human Nature,” particularly Book 1,Part 2 “Of the Ideas of Space and Time”. Hume believed that space and time cannot be conceived on their own apart from objects in space or objects changing in time. Hume was an empiricist who believed that scientific ideas are based upon tangible evidence and experience.

I guess what you are all suggesting is that Einstein could not have arrived at his theory without spirit influence on some level. Perhaps, since we know that some talented individuals receive Adjusters who can help establish their gifts so all can benefit (44:8.2). But Einstein’s theory is still a scientific theory, not a philosophical theory.

There are scientific revelations, or discoveries, but they are still science, not philosophy. Insight into how the material universe works is not philosophy. Philosophy, when aided by revelation, gives us insight into the workings of both the material and spiritual universe. Einstein’s theory of relativity tells us nothing about the spiritual universe. It is about physical gravity, physical light, physical mass. His famous formula gives us no insight into morality or the nature of the personality of God. It only gives us insight into the realm of God, not God himself.

The cosmic mind has three reality responses. The first is causation which has to do with science; the second is duty which has to do with morality; the third is worship which has to do with the personality of God. Einstein’s theory shows no evidence of duty or worship, as far as I can see. That does not mean that Einstein was not a moral individual, nor does it mean that he was not in a personal relationship with God. It simply means that he was using his human reasoning powers of discrimination concerning a scientific concept; which I think is only the first reality response of causation.

Although the mind of man has a divine origin, it is not divine. The cosmic mind endowment of man does not lead all the way back to Paradise Deity; it is a local phenomenon, and without the Adjuster cannot begin to approach divine status. The spirit of worship is the morality adjutant. The adjutant of curiosity is number four, the spirit of knowledge. The adjutants of understanding and courage (two and three), are involved in reasoning and intelligence. How far can it go? All the way to wisdom and then the long arm of the Holy Spirit grabs it and ushers it into the soul where an idea has a chance to be spiritized. Then it has the power to be acted out under the auspices of the Spirit of Truth. I’m not seeing Einstein’s theory of relativity as something that has been spiritized. I could be wrong, but I just don’t see it.

Although I don’t think his theory of relativity is philosophy, I do think Einstein was a philosopher as per his quotes:
- There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.
- Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value.
- I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice.
- Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.
- The whole of science is nothing more than a refinement of everyday thinking.
- As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
- The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed.
- We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality.
- When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than any talent for abstract, positive thinking.
Mark KurtzParticipant
Jan 20, 2016, 3:55 PM
Expanding the mind aspect into the discussion is helpful. I generally agree, Bonita. What underlies most all these Forum discussions is truth seeking, a very good mind activity, regardless of whether we agree. It seems to me the most important and highest level of active wisdom seeking is a simple question for all aspects of life, which could be, ‘What is true?’ Or substitute “real” for true. This underlies living philosophy and rebuts any tendency within the total planetary discussion for any one person’s closed mindedness.

My main point for Einstein is he likely was very closely observed on high and his Adjuster knew his preferences, posits and tendencies. What is more important than one or a few persons is the direction humanity is moving. He added mightily to increased material understanding. He only lasted a short time in the flesh, but his contributions added new thought. He was not omniscient, but he contributed to the overall planetary plan of progress, IMHO.

Thanks for your input!
GeneParticipant
Jan 20, 2016, 5:38 PM
Somewhere in the Urantia Book we are told that there are forms of energy that have not been revealed to us yet.

what do you make of that?

im trying to find that quote and I may be wrong, it may have said energy that we have not discovered yet.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 20, 2016, 6:15 PM
3:2.3 Of all the divine attributes, his omnipotence, especially as it prevails in the material universe, is the best understood. Viewed as an unspiritual phenomenon, God is energy. This declaration of physical fact is predicated on the incomprehensible truth that the First Source and Center is the primal cause of the universal physical phenomena of all space. From this divine activity all physical energy and other material manifestations are derived. Light, that is, light without heat, is another of the nonspiritual manifestations of the Deities. And there is still another form of nonspiritual energy which is virtually unknown on Urantia; it is as yet unrecognized.

42:1.3 There is innate in matter and present in universal space a form of energy not known on Urantia. When this discovery is finally made, then will physicists feel that they have solved, almost at least, the mystery of matter. And so will they have approached one step nearer the Creator; so will they have mastered one more phase of the divine technique; but in no sense will they have found God, neither will they have established the existence of matter or the operation of natural laws apart from the cosmic technique of Paradise and the motivating purpose of the Universal Father.

42:4.1 Light, heat, electricity, magnetism, chemism, energy, and matter are — in origin, nature, and destiny — one and the same thing, together with other material realities as yet undiscovered on Urantia.

42:6.4 The ultimatons, unknown on Urantia, slow down through many phases of physical activity before they attain the revolutionary-energy prerequisites to electronic organization. Ultimatons have three varieties of motion: mutual resistance to cosmic force, individual revolutions of antigravity potential, and the intraelectronic positions of the one hundred mutually interassociated ultimatons.

42:8.1 While gravity is one of several factors concerned in holding together a tiny atomic energy system, there is also present in and among these basic physical units a powerful and unknown energy, the secret of their basic constitution and ultimate behavior, a force which remains to be discovered on Urantia. This universal influence permeates all the space embraced within this tiny energy organization.

42:8.6 The mesotron explains certain cohesive properties of the atomic nucleus, but it does not account for the cohesion of proton to proton nor for the adhesion of neutron to neutron. The paradoxical and powerful force of atomic cohesive integrity is a form of energy as yet undiscovered on Urantia.

58:3.1 During the earlier times of universe materialization the space regions are interspersed with vast hydrogen clouds, just such astronomic dust clusters as now characterize many regions throughout remote space. Much of the organized matter which the blazing suns break down and disperse as radiant energywas originally built up in these early appearing hydrogen clouds of space. Under certain unusual conditions atom disruption also occurs at the nucleus of the larger hydrogen masses. And all of these phenomena of atom building and atom dissolution, as in the highly heated nebulae, are attended by the emergence of flood tides of short space rays of radiant energy. Accompanying these diverse radiations is a form of space-energy unknown on Urantia.

81:2.14 The savage is a slave to nature, but scientific civilization is slowly conferring increasing liberty on mankind. Through animals, fire, wind, water, electricity, and other undiscovered sources of energy, man has liberated, and will continue to liberate, himself from the necessity for unremitting toil. Regardless of the transient trouble produced by the prolific invention of machinery, the ultimate benefits to be derived from such mechanical inventions are inestimable. Civilization can never flourish, much less be established, until man has leisure to think, to plan, to imagine new and better ways of doing things.

Here are some quotes, although I’m not sure what it has to do with TBG or philosophy. I’m sorry I can’t underline the relevant parts of the quotes because the formatting on this site won’t let me highlight. When I try, it jumps the screen out of view or erases my post. All extremely irritating. Plus, since the meltdown, I haven’t been getting email notifications of posts. I’m wondering if everyone has this issue or just me.
AnonymousInactive
Jan 20, 2016, 8:37 PM

Bonita wrote:

Here are some quotes, although I’m not sure what it has to do with TBG or philosophy. I’m sorry I can’t underline the relevant parts of the quotes because the formatting on this site won’t let me highlight. When I try, it jumps the screen out of view or erases my post. All extremely irritating. Plus, since the meltdown, I haven’t been getting email notifications of posts. I’m wondering if everyone has this issue or just me.

I’m sorry to here that you are having issues Bonita, where there have been many issues with this forums infrastructure which are inferior to what they had in the past, but it might also be that you may be using an “Apple” product?? and have not updated your software or, your browser needs tweaking??

Nevertheless, your presentation of the Urantia Book quotes are or have been written in a philosophical format. In this I mean that when one studies the old ancient philosophers narratives and translations, one can deduce a similarity as to the structure of the narratives. The UB is no different, in that one can take any one of the UB quotes which you have presented and brake them down in a philosophical format or technique. Let’s take one of the narrations which you presented as an example:

Bonita wrote:

42:1.3 There is innate in matter and present in universal space a form of energy not known on Urantia. When this discovery is finally made, then will physicists feel that they have solved, almost at least, the mystery of matter. And so will they have approached one step nearer the Creator; so will they have mastered one more phase of the divine technique; but in no sense will they have found God, neither will they have established the existence of matter or the operation of natural laws apart from the cosmic technique of Paradise and the motivating purpose of the Universal Father.

If one takes the philosophical technique which I found in studying Philo’s work, you might pick up on the subtle intent placed in this narrative by the authors. For instance why use the word “innate” which if one were to use various synonyms of that word, where in this case would be “inherent” or “existing in one from birth”, which describes “matter”, which then indicates that “matter” is “energy”, but many forms of “energy”, which have a distinct pattern, when one examines a form of “matter”. But, later in the narration it indicates that this “energy”, is part of a “technique” where, this “energy” would be imbedded within “matter”, but not noticeable as a separate primal element of that “matter”, because the result is the product of a “technique”. Then the phrase “almost at least” is not really puzzling, but would be overlooked by many, and not understood that, what the “physicists feel that they have solved” is the “least” part of “the mystery of matter” which would indicate that what they have found in science, currently the discovery of a new “Higgs boson” particle will not solve this mystery but is only a visible part or phase of the “divine technique” of creating primal “matter”, or for that mater “primal atoms”.

Now the narration points to “natural laws” which our science has isolated many forms, and also points to the “cosmic technique of Paradise” where in the Urantia Book, this technique has been described but will not be understood unless we compare these descriptions with our known scientific laws and formulas. It just so happens that I have found these narrations in the UB and have started to put together the patterns which describe this paradise technique. But, what I have found is “innate” to the biologic process and function held within the human body, which is in my opinion the “motivating purpose” behind the “Universal Father” to look within ourselves in order to discover in this case the mysteries of life or matter, which would at the same time be able to cure that which ails us. So, it would seem that in order to find the mysteries of matter, we will need to be able to cure our human medical issues in order to proceed further into the “cosmic technique of Paradise.” Fix one thing and you will find yourself one step closer to solving the mystery of another.

Theory and Philosophy are one in the same in that philosophy is the technique by which one creates theory and then through science turning theory into proved known procedures which become law or truth. Even in music one must understand the philosophy behind the composers creation, where in order to understand this philosophy, one must understand the basic structures of the theory of music. Music has its own language and can be read or understood as the composer has presented it on paper, but it is the conductor who through the feeling of the interpreted philosophy, imbedded by the composer, in its creation, who translates the intent of the creator.
AndréParticipant
Jan 20, 2016, 8:58 PM
Dear Bonita,

There must be a way to relieve that threatening irritant encounter when you want to highlight an editing line !

* _{Concerning notification, when you are editing your profile, a question to check √ or unchecked one of those boxes, maybe? Look at this screenshot.}

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GeneParticipant
Jan 20, 2016, 10:13 PM
Unknown or yet to be discovered

thank you Bonita
MaraParticipant
Jan 20, 2016, 10:32 PM
When I ask myself “What is my philosophy?” I find it is very hard to articulate. I am inclined to first go to basics, starting out with what I understand is the beginning of stuff – what I believe about where everything originated. Then proceeding to my understanding of the unfolding of histories of all types, as they chance to come to my attention, and attempting to make sense of those histories and events, even attempting to make sense of current historical events and situations, ever reaching to comprehend and discern meanings with respect to them, as applied to people on a world-stage scale and including myself and my own history. A raison d’etre. And thirdly, to me there has to be a destination, a goal so to speak, to round everything out and join loose ends in a unified fashion. [If such a “goal” or “destination” is you are born, you live, then you die, i.e. end-of-story, at least the person who believes this to be true has rounded out and pulled loose ends together in his or her mind concerning what happens after the last breath is breathed. Even if it’s erroneous. Even if it’s a weak or halfhearted idea about what happens after death.]

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I found this reference interesting. Perhaps philosophy is an action-plan in the realm of religion.

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98:2:12 Religions have long endured without philosophical support, but few philosophies, as such, have long persisted without some identification with religion. Philosophy is to religion as conception is to action. But the ideal human estate is that in which philosophy, religion, and science are welded into a meaningful unity by the conjoined action of wisdom, faith, and experience.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jan 21, 2016, 10:33 AM
Mara wrote:

…Philosophy is to religion as conception is to action. But the ideal human estate is that in which, religion, and science are welded into a meaningful unity by the conjoined action of wisdom, faith, and experience.

That’s one to contemplate Mara……..then put on a welder’s hood, create some fire, light and unity!

It’s been fascinating reading your responses, a real education in philosophy and related topics. Evidently there is more interest and understanding of philosophy than I realized, at least here on this Forum. Other sites where this has been posted have so far brought little to no response.

Philosophy has been around ever since men and women tried to add understanding to their nascent religions of fear and superstition. That couldn’t be successful until the scrutiny of science was in place. Evidently, just as truth, beauty, and goodness have to advance together or suffer distortion and failure, religion, philosophy, and science must also. One of the most potent quotes to back that up is in Paper 2:

…The great mistake of the Hebrew religion was its failure to associate the goodness of God with the factual truths of science and the appealing beauty of art…. (43:2) 2:7.9

Science, philosophy and religion are already welded fast in the UB. There are no less than 48 paragraphs that have all three, often in partnership with truth, beauty and goodness:

…Truth is the basis of science and philosophy, presenting the intellectual foundation of religion. Beauty sponsors art, music, and the meaningful rhythms of all human experience. Goodness embraces the sense of ethics, morality, and religion — experiential perfection-hunger…. (647.1) 56:10.10

In their essence, and at their source and destiny, all three must be one. Only out here in time and space where body, mind and spirit appear to be separate do truth, beauty, goodness, and science, philosophy and religion also appear to be separate. Let us weld.

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Jan 21, 2016, 3:42 PM

Rick Warren wrote: Other sites where this has been posted have so far brought little to no response.

Part of the problem, as I see it, is it’s hard to tell if you want to talk about TBG or philosophy. I don’t think they’re the same thing. Also, I’m not sure everyone knows what true philosophy is according to TUB. Just an observation.

You know, there are other triads besides TBG, and science, philosophy, religion. I think the triads are all part of the elliptical symmetry of reality that we are supposed to be thinking deeply about and experiencing on all three levels, while unifying all of it with our personalities.

Revelation is tied to personality, or so I think, which means that personal revelation only comes when we unify all these little triads in a meaningful way. I think the wholeness of personality is the means by which we avoid the distortion caused by failure to consider the elliptical symmetry of all the parts of reality. Personal revelation comes when we succeed at this, and this leads to a progressively spiritual life. Those psychic circles are about gathering up all those little triads and making them whole, over and over and over again in a nice symmetric, elliptical spiral of ascension. At least that’s how I picture it.

56:10.16 All insight into the relations of the parts to any given whole requires an understanding grasp of the relation of all parts to that whole; and in the universe this means the relation of created parts to the Creative Whole. Deity thus becomes the transcendental, even the infinite, goal of universal and eternal attainment.

Just for fun, some other triads are: thing, meaning, value; fact, idea, relation; reason, logic, worship; knowledge, wisdom, experience; brotherhood of culture, brotherhood of wisdom, brotherhood of spirit; fact, law, love; fact, idea, ideal; causation, duty, worship; scientific reality, moral reality, spiritual reality; physical gravity, mindal gravity; spiritual gravity; knowledge, wisdom, faith; physical reality, intellectual reality, spiritual reality; matter, mind, spirit; Father, Son, Holy Spirit. I guess there are more . . . don’t know.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jan 22, 2016, 10:27 AM

Bonita wrote:

Part of the problem, as I see it, is it’s hard to tell if you want to talk about TBG or philosophy. I don’t think they’re the same thing. Also, I’m not sure everyone knows what true philosophy is according to TUB. Just an observation.

That’s an observation well worth considering, Bonita…I don’t think they are the same either, but I DO think TB&G are revealed as the solitary, irreplaceable, irreducible, foundation stones of universe/cosmic philosophy, not merely a thought framework for Urantians alone.

But it should be noted here the authors cautioned us against putting TB&G (and philosophy presumably) above their source, twice that I’ve noticed:

…The idealization and attempted service of truth, beauty, and goodness is not a substitute for genuine religious experience–spiritual reality…. (2095.7) 196:3.23

…Even truth, beauty, and goodness–man’s intellectual approach to the universe of mind, matter, and spirit–must be combined into one unified concept of a divine and supreme ideal…. (647.6) 56:10.15

One of the reasons I created and posted this call for philosophers was to highlight the UB authors’ redefinition of philosophy, as the buffer between science and religion, as a new and vastly expanded cosmic view of God and the Universe, as a way to think of sentient personal existence, and to progress seamlessly thru it. Sooner or later, people everywhere will learn of this revealed philosophy that comforms so perfectly with divine reality.

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Jan 22, 2016, 1:50 PM

Rick Warren wrote:

Sooner or later, people everywhere will learn of this revealed philosophy that comforms so perfectly with divine reality.

To what revealed philosophy are you referring?
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jan 22, 2016, 2:10 PM

Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote:

Sooner or later, people everywhere will learn of this revealed philosophy that comforms so perfectly with divine reality.

To what revealed philosophy are you referring?

The cosmically inclusive philosophy founded on the universal divine principles best expressed by the word/concepts, Truth, Beauty, Goodness.

.

Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Jan 22, 2016, 3:14 PM
So Rick, you’re saying that revealed philosophy is based upon TBG but they’re not the same thing? Wouldn’t a revealed philosophy be more like morontia mota, something we are not capable of? Maybe you’re thinking of a cosmic philosophy developed from the revelations in TUB, which is something we are capable of?

If TBG are the building blocks of your revealed philosophy, how do we go about building such a thing? If philosophy is logic, and TBG are religious experience, where does science come into this thing you’re building? To be cosmically inclusive with this philosophy, don’t you have to include science? Where’s the science in TBG? Maybe I’m missing something here, but I think you’re leaving out 1/3 of reality.

As I see it, TBG are experienced in the soul. Science is perceived in the mind. Philosophy is the bridge that attempts to integrate the two. It is not a soul function or strictly a mind function, but a function that attempts to transcend the mind by observing that which is observed. It usually falls short since logic is only meagerly transcendent without revelation. That which reveals is the Spirit of Truth within us who helps us discover, recognize and interpret these relationships in new and revelatory ways, ways that have meaning to us in relationship to the lives we each live.

Truth, beauty and goodness are meaningless words until a link up is made between the objective, scientific realm of reality (the world our egos live in) and the subjective spiritual realm of reality (the world our souls live in). That’s the job of philosophy. Truth, beauty and goodness don’t make any sense at all until they have meaning in both worlds. That’s the job of the Spirit of Truth, if we allow him to do his work. I know I’m repeating myself . . . sorry.

101:3.2 Spiritual philosophy, the wisdom of spirit realities, is the endowment of the Spirit of Truth, the combined gift of the bestowal Sons to the children of men.

So, to boil it down, I don’t think you can build a cosmically inclusive philosophy founded solely on the universal divine principles expressed by the word/concepts truth, beauty and goodness. What is the divine principle of truth? What is the divine principle of beauty? What is the divine principle of goodness? What meanings do these word/concepts have? TBG are values, but values without meanings aren’t all that useful, which is why I think it’s hard for people to talk about them.

TBG are relative values because everyone has to give them their own meanings based on the facts experienced in their individual lives. I think philosophy must draw upon both our outer experience, which is the meaning we give to the facts in our lives, and our inner experience, which is the meaning we give to values we discover in our souls, if philosophy is to be equated with wisdom. Otherwise, such a philosophy would be merely an idealistic fantasy or a practical realism. To base philosophy solely on TBG would lean towards an idealistic fantasy, in my opinion.

101:5.2 Science deals with facts; religion is concerned only with values. Through enlightened philosophy the mind endeavors to unite the meanings of both facts and values, thereby arriving at a concept of complete reality. Remember that science is the domain of knowledge, philosophy the realm of wisdom, and religion the sphere of the faith experience.

Anyway, I’m tired of the formatting on this forum. It takes five times longer than usual to make a post . . . very tiring and frustrating. See you later.
Nigel NunnParticipant
Jan 23, 2016, 12:16 AM
Dear Bonita – while formats and fonts may be frustrating, your thoughts come through loud and crystal clear.

Thank you for all the meaning and value you pack into each post.

Nigel
MaraParticipant
Jan 23, 2016, 4:50 AM
The following reference informs us of the great difference between a religious and non-religious philosophy of living. I hope you find this interesting.

101:7:4 The great difference between a religious and a nonreligious philosophy of living consists in the nature and level of recognized values and in the object of loyalties. There are four phases in the evolution of religious philosophy: Such an experience may become merely conformative, resigned to submission to tradition and authority. Or it may be satisfied with slight attainments, just enough to stabilize the daily living, and therefore becomes early arrested on such an adventitious level. Such mortals believe in letting well enough alone. A third group progress to the level of logical intellectuality but there stagnate in consequence of cultural slavery. It is indeed pitiful to behold giant intellects held so securely within the cruel grasp of cultural bondage. It is equally pathetic to observe those who trade their cultural bondage for the materialistic fetters of a science, falsely so called. The fourth level of philosophy attains freedom from all conventional and traditional handicaps and dares to think, act, and live honestly, loyally, fearlessly, and truthfully.

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101:7:5 The acid test for any religious philosophy consists in whether or not it distinguishes between the realities of the material and the spiritual worlds while at the same moment recognizing their unification in intellectual striving and in social serving. A sound religious philosophy does not confound the things of God with the things of Caesar. Neither does it recognize the aesthetic cult of pure wonder as a substitute for religion.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Jan 23, 2016, 12:50 PM

Bonita wrote:

…So, to boil it down, I don’t think you can build a cosmically inclusive philosophy founded solely on the universal divine principles expressed by the word/concepts truth, beauty and goodness. What is the divine principle of truth? What is the divine principle of beauty? What is the divine principle of goodness? What meanings do these word/concepts have? TBG are values, but values without meanings aren’t all that useful, which is why I think it’s hard for people to talk about them. TBG are relative values because everyone has to give them their own meanings based on the facts experienced in their individual lives. I think philosophy must draw upon both our outer experience, which is the meaning we give to the facts in our lives, and our inner experience, which is the meaning we give to values we discover in our souls, if philosophy is to be equated with wisdom. Otherwise, such a philosophy would be merely an idealistic fantasy or a practical realism. To base philosophy solely on TBG would lean towards an idealistic fantasy, in my opinion.

We’ll have to disagree about that. As I see it, the great standards of divine perfection and human endeavor are Truth, Beauty and Goodness, they are in and of God. Any philosophy that doesn’t recognize and adopt them as universal standards is off the mark and doomed to ignominy.

Greek philosophers isolated these ‘transcendentals’, Truth, Beauty, Goodness, no doubt derived from revelations and wisdom of previous epochs, Adam and Eve, and a then recent visit from Melchizedek. I’d bet the angels and midwayers have fostered this threefold foundation of philosophy from distant times. The authors associated TB&G and philosophy in a host of quotes that tie into one, two, or all three of these divine standards, quotes that lead me to believe this is a new and revealed philosophy. And I think philosophy’s boiled down essence can only be expressed by this universal philosophical triad.

…Truth, fact, and relationship are intellectually inseparable and associated with the philosophic concepts of beauty. Goodness, righteousness, and justice are philosophically interrelated and spiritually bound up together with living truth and divine beauty…. (507:3) 44:7.2

…Truth is the basis of science and philosophy, presenting the intellectual foundation of religion…. (647:1) 56:10.10

…Love is the highest motivation which man may utilize in his universe ascent. But love, divested of truth, beauty, and goodness, is only a sentiment, a philosophic distortion, a psychic illusion, a spiritual deception…. (2096:5) 196:3.29

…Physical facts are fairly uniform, but truth is a living and flexible factor in the philosophy of the universe…. (42.3) 2:7.2

…The highest attainable philosophy of mortal man must be logically based on the reason of science, the faith of religion, and the truth insight afforded by revelation…. (1137:5) 103:6.15

…The higher and superphilosophic wisdom of such enlightened and disciplined individuals ultimately instructs them that to doubt God or distrust his goodness would be to prove untrue to the realest and deepest thing within the human mind and soul–the divine Adjuster…. (1105.4) 101:1.7

…Intellectual self-consciousness can discover the beauty of truth, its spiritual quality, not only by the philosophic consistency of its concepts, but more certainly and surely by the unerring response of the ever-present Spirit of Truth…. (42.7) 2:7.6

…These superaphic masters of philosophy are the “wise men of heaven,” the beings of wisdom who make use of the truth of knowledge and the facts of experience in their efforts to master the unknown…. (302:6) 27:6.2

…Spiritual philosophy, the wisdom of spirit realities, is the endowment of the Spirit of Truth…. (1108:1) 101:3.2

…These expressions of the divine urge within the evolving creature may be intellectually true, emotionally beautiful, and spiritually good; but the real soul of expression is absent unless these realities of truth, meanings of beauty, and values of goodness are unified in the life experience of the artisan, the scientist, or the philosopher…. (507:4) 44:7.3

…Never, then, can either science or religion, in and of themselves, standing alone, hope to gain an adequate understanding of universal truths and relationships without the guidance of human philosophy and the illumination of divine revelation…. (1135:7) 103:6.5

…On Paradise the ascendant personalities of space experience the heights of being: They have knowledge; they know the truth; they may philosophize–think the truth; they may even seek to encompass the concepts of the Ultimate and attempt to grasp the techniques of the Absolutes…. (302:6) 27:6.2

Bonita wrote:

Anyway, I’m tired of the formatting on this forum. It takes five times longer than usual to make a post . . . very tiring and frustrating. See you later.

Thanks for your time and comments. See ya.

Richard E Warren

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Calling All Philosophers

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