197 posts · 15 participants · started May 31, 2015, 1:16 AM
Thanks Mara. Sab didn’t disrespect me and said nothing even pointed at me prior to my post. I just didn’t want to further participate in a thread where the issue changed to posting personal a negative opinion about the present Pope’s thinking, as compared to other Popes. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on such things, but an ad hominem attack against a current religious leader is not something I want to participate in.
Peace.
Thanks Mara. Sab didn’t disrespect me and said nothing even pointed at me prior to my post. I just didn’t want to further participate in a thread where the issue changed to posting personal a negative opinion about the present Pope’s thinking, as compared to other Popes. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on such things, but an ad hominem attack against a current religious leader is not something I want to participate in. Peace.
I agree that it is most unfortunate that such secular politics overtake any conversation and display such a myopic and dark view of our world and its future on a UB forum. The critical analysis of any institutional religion or its leaders seems to me to miss the subject of real religion especially given the diversity and disparity we know exists in all such institutions as we are taught that there is only one true and real religion…and there’s around 7 billion of them!!
Christianity, of any flavor by any institution, is not the solution to any need or lack and is but the cocoon – not the butterfly to come. Christianity can only “re-invent” itself one soul at a time….same with the world and society and culture.
Personally, I really like the Pope’s institutional expressions of his personal religion and his willingness to up the ante by recognition of the importance of every person and his love for others. It appears to be an earnest attempt to reconstruct that particular brand of Christianity. But what do I know?
Political commentary is an unwise insertion as well. Damning that which one disagrees with changes nothing…especially the critic. But the heathen rage! And gnash their teeth and demonstrate the fool’s errand of opposition to other’s choices while demonstrating the real need for personal transformation and transcendence above such a fray whereby a clearer view of actual progress and potential might be found. Anger and fear offer nothing to anyone of any value. Let the heathen rage.
The Urantia movement should not be called to arms for such petty trifles as social reform, political change, or condemning others. Each religionist is called upon to change the world by their living of the truth and by the love which they share in their daily walk and to be certain in our own destiny and that of our world. Progress cannot be measured by the short sighted and darkened view of disappointment and impatience. Or so I think.
99:1.1 (1086.4) Mechanical inventions and the dissemination of knowledge are modifying civilization; certain economic adjustments and social changes are imperative if cultural disaster is to be avoided. This new and oncoming social order will not settle down complacently for a millennium. The human race must become reconciled to a procession of changes, adjustments, and readjustments. Mankind is on the march toward a new and unrevealed planetary destiny.
99:2.1 (1087.4) Institutional religion cannot afford inspiration and provide leadership in this impending world-wide social reconstruction and economic reorganization because it has unfortunately become more or less of an organic part of the social order and the economic system which is destined to undergo reconstruction. Only the real religion of personal spiritual experience can function helpfully and creatively in the present crisis of civilization.
99:2.2 (1087.5) Institutional religion is now caught in the stalemate of a vicious circle. It cannot reconstruct society without first reconstructing itself; and being so much an integral part of the established order, it cannot reconstruct itself until society has been radically reconstructed.
99:2.3 (1087.6) Religionists must function in society, in industry, and in politics as individuals, not as groups, parties, or institutions. A religious group which presumes to function as such, apart from religious activities, immediately becomes a political party, an economic organization, or a social institution. Religious collectivism must confine its efforts to the furtherance of religious causes.
99:2.4 (1087.7) Religionists are of no more value in the tasks of social reconstruction than nonreligionists except in so far as their religion has conferred upon them enhanced cosmic foresight and endowed them with that superior social wisdom which is born of the sincere desire to love God supremely and to love every man as a brother in the heavenly kingdom. An ideal social order is that in which every man loves his neighbor as he loves himself.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Christianity—some suggested steps
- Proclaim Sonship with God as a fact of mortal status. Child has right of access to the parent.
- Discard the Atonement doctrine.
- Discard virgin birth myth. Accept that Jesus was born as children are, by sexual intercourse of parents. Joseph and Mary were already married, she was not a virgin.
- Promote peace. Advocate exclusively non-violent means of resolving human disagreements.
- Establish gender equality. Cease the elitist attempt at a celibate priesthood which was never advocated by Jesus. Encourage family life, establishment and maintenance of the home which is the structural basis of society.
- Accept its spiritual mission. Cease being distracted by social and material matters. No excuse for church involvement in commerce and politics.
- Teach the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it.
Nice start! Agree with your “big picture” list as presented in Papers 99 – 103….Here is my cut and paste contribution because this was the “revelation” of TRUTH – for ME PERSONALLY
(after a lifetime of “religion” and after watching the CHAOS created among TUB readers with “disruptive technology” that was basically a savage knifing of “messengers” of the future on the senate floor akin to that scene in the HBO series “Rome” where they all stab Caesar)
that never gets cut and pasted by the local pint of TUB jingoists:
Page 1088 – “The great weakness of all this unrecognized and unconscious type of religious activity is that it is unable to profit from open religious criticism and thereby attain to profitable levels of self-correction. It is a fact that religion does not grow unless it is disciplined by constructive criticism, amplified by philosophy, purified by science, and nourished by loyal fellowship.”
“unrecognized and unconscious”
Now that it is as clear to me as the cloudless desert blue sky that the same cut and paste jobs that MAra and Bradley supply us with OVER AND OVER AND OVER again are only the ones that, taken out of context, can be used for knifing anyone who DARES to actually READ THE BOOK – it is a “spiritually” vile and incessant GAME of the politics of personal destruction – so yes Mara and Bradley, I HAVE lost my patience with both of you because I NEVER did anything to you to hurt you financially morally spiritually ethically and psychologically – so thanks for providing the CONTRAST of how many times you have done that here for all to see and I am just getting started on where you were the snakes in the grass in my backyard – LITERALLY.
Here is the OPENING LINE in Paper 99 – “Religion achieves its highest social ministry when it has least connection with the secular institutions of society.”
CHRISTIANITY has been infiltrated – NOT BY SABINATU talking “politics”- but by non-CHristians and that is CLEAR from the way the CATHOLIC CHURCH is conducting its “social ministry” – as a schill for godless conniving thieving tyrants and despots that well-meaning religionist souls like Teobeck do not want to go there – on record. PROVE ME WRONG. You can’t. All you can do is cut and paste from TUB to continue your jingoism – laughable to sell the “personal” angle as the new PRESSURE to conform at the very time when the SECULAR technopsycho world has robbed everyone of their PRIVACY….philosophic mayhem – the rotten fruit….I spit it out…
I am flipping through Papers 99 -103 looking for the “peace mandate”, as I call it, and this popped up – just for you, Mara:
page 1094 – “While religion produces growth of meanings and enhancement of values, evil always results when purely personal evaluations are elevated to the levels of absolutes.”
The stool of “religion” needs to be kicked out from under the Global War Drug and Slave Lords. NOW.
Urantia HAS an evolutionary experientially EARNED and revelatory supplied INSTITUTE for Peace that must confine itself to that role especially when it is perfectly clear to everyone with half a brain cell still operational that WAR is the one and only cause, TODAY, of all those “social” ills that PC-ism is laying at the feet of “religion”.
Page 1088 – “….The institutionalized church may have appeared to sere society in the past by glorifying the established political and economic orders, but it must speedily cease such action if it is to survive. Its only proper attitude consists in the teaching of nonviolence, the doctrine of peaceful evolution in the place of violent revolution – peace on earth and good will among men.”
Survival – always step one 
All options on the table against the predators of idealists operating from the “churches”.
Lordy, how can anyone read Papers 99 – 103 and still come on here with snippets used for psychobabble?!
Only thing I can think off as a valid excuse is the LACK of the right stuff – genetically. That major default of a Material Son and Daughter that left humanity with the tragic weakness that has been exploited into an iniquitous for-profit health care “ministry” – More misery for others = More $$$$ for ME ME ME
I already had 20 years of Bible study prior to discovering the UB (and a degree in Philosophy), so PART IV was a revelation to me. It filled in all the blanks about God, Jesus, John the Baptist and the Apostles in the Bible, and provided me with a logical cohesiveness to the structure of my entire belief system. It gave me a chance to know the family of God on a personal basis, without any church doctrine, which is primarily based upon the letters of Paul. It makes sense of seeking the will of God as a Father, and having truth, beauty and goodness as the ideals of God and Jesus.
I will admit that other parts of the UB are difficult to understand, even more difficult than Kant and Hegel, but I attribute that to language difficulties, especially after reading Matt Block’s source studies, as the common usage of language used by authors in the 20’s and 30’s was much different than today.
The upshot is that I arrived at a peace from the UB that is priceless. If you see Jesus, you see the Father. The love of Jesus in the UB is incredible. It will convert anger to forgiveness and love.
The transition from church doctrine to a comprehension of the UB was tedious, and took time, but for me it happened. I do however, understand that the churches are all that is left for those who desire to find God, if they can’t deal with a body of thought like the UB. That is why there are the Angels of the Churches, IMO.
On the way to the UB I studied Rudolph Steiner, Ouspensky and Gurdjeff, Edgar Cayce, Emmanuel Swedenborg and more. These were heavy dudes. So the UB is the very best I have ever found.
And the foregoing was not cut and paste.
Bradly wrote: Institutional religion is now caught in the stalemate of a vicious circle. It cannot reconstruct society without first reconstructing itself; and being so much an integral part of the established order, it cannot reconstruct itself until society has been radically reconstructed.
Hello Bradly, thanks for including this quote which goes directly to the necessity of living to the full, the life being lived right now, with all of the challenges confronting society at present. In the 60s when I was a teen it was called “be here now.”
As a group of religionists we have the benefit of a long term vision which embraces the goal of destiny, in this respect we number among the idealists of the world because our reality is based on faith. The challenge for religionists is achieving fearlessness with grace. Being fully grounded in the practicalities of living while living as in the presence of the Father.
Greetings Vern, my friend – there’s lots of ground to cover in your questions above and I am uncertain I can adequately address them.
First, on the issue of Christians and Christianity – I am a Jesusonian, a small (but growing) sect within Christiandom that rejects the wrathful God of the OT and the blood atonement doctrine in the NT – and I was that prior to ever having or reading the UB. I found the gospel OF Jesus not so hard to find or differentiate from the rest of the good book by age 14. I have found loving, forgiving, patient, and wise peace makers in Christianity and also impatient fools and war mongers and haters….and on every point of the spectrum in between. I and many have been in the trenches and streets of political and social reform; as you say, I too am a child of the 60’s and well know the horrors of injustice and indignity that both governments and citizens can muster by weapons of mass destruction and the empty allures of greed, pleasure, consumption, materialism, etc. I don’t find the causes of such effects mysterious or difficult to identify.
As to Jesus’ example and teachings…..his times and ours are not so dissimilar and offer much for us to consider. I think it important to remember that the gift of love and the gospel may not be imposed upon any other but only offered and demonstrated. I think all who believe the gospel of paternal creator and family of God have a duty, as citizens in both the heavenly family and the world upon which we reside, to actively work in service to others – each other as we pass by and all others as we are able. And I don’t think anyone filled with blame, anger, hate, impatience, intolerance, and a shrill voice offers any light or example or truth or value to that love driven service ministry that lies before every man and woman of every generation.
The transformation of the all will always require the transformation of the each or nothing is transformed at all….as goes the parts…so goes the whole. Our role as believers is an infectious one…an art of attraction and light presented…..not slogans and politicisms and rantings and ravings. I work to change the world in many ways and on many levels….as I know you do Vern and as I know so many, many others do so too. From prayer to action every day. There are billions of moments every day where love shines forth from the hearts of so many of our fellows. I am hopeful the light of love will come to transform all people and I know of a certainty that this destiny of Light and Life will come….one soul at a time. Peace.
34:6.13 (381.7) The consciousness of the spirit domination of a human life is presently attended by an increasing exhibition of the characteristics of the Spirit in the life reactions of such a spirit-led mortal, “for the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.” Such spirit-guided and divinely illuminated mortals, while they yet tread the lowly paths of toil and in human faithfulness perform the duties of their earthly assignments, have already begun to discern the lights of eternal life as they glimmer on the faraway shores of another world; already have they begun to comprehend the reality of that inspiring and comforting truth, “The kingdom of God is not meat and drink but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” And throughout every trial and in the presence of every hardship, spirit-born souls are sustained by that hope which transcends all fear because the love of God is shed abroad in all hearts by the presence of the divine Spirit.
Me: Let us be joyful in this friendly universe of certain destiny and give thanks for the God of love as we serve and love one another.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
It is my belief that we today witness a great personalization of religion and that this is no accident (indeed has been accelerating in power and effect for 2000 years) and that it will eventuate into far more religionists and far more effective religionists who do not “use” religion as a tool to bludgeon one another by our differences but come to love one another….takes time though as the infectious, evolutionary force of the spirit within.
99:4.3 (1089.11) True religion is a meaningful way of living dynamically face to face with the commonplace realities of everyday life. But if religion is to stimulate individual development of character and augment integration of personality, it must not be standardized. If it is to stimulate evaluation of experience and serve as a value-lure, it must not be stereotyped. If religion is to promote supreme loyalties, it must not be formalized.
99:4.4 (1089.12) No matter what upheavals may attend the social and economic growth of civilization, religion is genuine and worth while if it fosters in the individual an experience in which the sovereignty of truth, beauty, and goodness prevails, for such is the true spiritual concept of supreme reality. And through love and worship this becomes meaningful as fellowship with man and sonship with God.
3. Instruction for Teachers and Believers
159:3.1 (1765.3) At Edrei, where Thomas and his associates labored, Jesus spent a day and a night and, in the course of the evening’s discussion, gave expression to the principles which should guide those who preach truth, and which should activate all who teach the gospel of the kingdom. Summarized and restated in modern phraseology, Jesus taught:
159:3.2 (1765.4) Always respect the personality of man. Never should a righteous cause be promoted by force; spiritual victories can be won only by spiritual power. This injunction against the employment of material influences refers to psychic force as well as to physical force. Overpowering arguments and mental superiority are not to be employed to coerce men and women into the kingdom. Man’s mind is not to be crushed by the mere weight of logic or overawed by shrewd eloquence. While emotion as a factor in human decisions cannot be wholly eliminated, it should not be directly appealed to in the teachings of those who would advance the cause of the kingdom. Make your appeals directly to the divine spirit that dwells within the minds of men. Do not appeal to fear, pity, or mere sentiment. In appealing to men, be fair; exercise self-control and exhibit due restraint; show proper respect for the personalities of your pupils. Remember that I have said: “Behold, I stand at the door and knock, and if any man will open, I will come in.”
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
– I am a Jesusonian, a small (but growing) sect within Christiandom that rejects the wrathful God of the OT and the blood atonement doctrine in the NT –
How does one join such a Religion? What is its doctrin? Can anyone join? Who leads this religion?
Bradly didn’t refer to Jesusonian as a religion. But following Jesus could be a wonderful personal religion. I understand we join in spirit as we increase our liking of Jesus and his teachings. It is the Spirit within that transforms us from humanness to divine like living. There is no known certificate; no doctrine. Anyone who accepts sonship and desires to live like God as modeled by Jesus is joining the Jesusonian way of life, living in “heaven” while we are yet human mortals. The leader is Jesus in Spirit presence. One’s mind can recognize his values, and desire his ways and therefore join a world-wide spirit family of Jesusonians. The UB authors call this the Brotherhood of Mankind of Urantia. This is what Michael of Nebadon came to establish and model for all his inhabited spheres!
Each person could ask of self, “What does it mean for me to truly follow him?” Answering that to self could be a contributing factor in relating to Him.
Hahahaahaha!! Good one Midi. By definition and by name….Jesusonians follow Michael and his spirit gifted to all and all who will may enter and join in…the leader would be the pilot of the soul. Still pretty much like herding cats I imagine when considering the all rather than the each…..very funny indeed. Thanks for the levity.
Seriously, though, I think the title of this thread misses the point of the teachings on religion….religious experience is personal and unique if it is true. Christianity, or any other religion, can only be reinvented by individual believers, not by any authority or doctrine or creed. The printing press accelerated this personalization and the internet propels it and in between were centuries of the deconstruction of centralized, humanistic, authority….this is a good thing, an evolutionary process of progress. Humpty Dumpty will not be put back together, nor should it.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
By definition and by name….Jesusonians follow Michael and his spirit gifted to all and all who will may enter and join in…the leader would be the pilot of the soul.
I see, then if the soul is associated to the individual, then the individual is the “pilot”? If “Jesusonians follow Michael” why not call this religion, Michaelsonian? Or, as a personalized religion, Bradlysonian?
111:1.9 (1217.4) Mind is your ship, the Adjuster is your pilot, the human will is captain. The master of the mortal vessel should have the wisdom to trust the divine pilot to guide the ascending soul into the morontia harbors of eternal survival. Only by selfishness, slothfulness, and sinfulness can the will of man reject the guidance of such a loving pilot and eventually wreck the mortal career upon the evil shoals of rejected mercy and upon the rocks of embraced sin. With your consent, this faithful pilot will safely carry you across the barriers of time and the handicaps of space to the very source of the divine mind and on beyond, even to the Paradise Father of Adjusters.
It is Jesusonian as it derives by the Gospel OF Jesus as delivered and lived by him in the 4th Epochal Revelation of God and his love to all humanity. Call it what you will.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
111:1.9 (1217.4) Mind is your ship, the Adjuster is your pilot, the human will is captain. The master of the mortal vessel should have the wisdom to trust the divine pilot to guide the ascending soul into the morontia harbors of eternal survival. Only by selfishness, slothfulness, and sinfulness can the will of man reject the guidance of such a loving pilot and eventually wreck the mortal career upon the evil shoals of rejected mercy and upon the rocks of embraced sin. With your consent, this faithful pilot will safely carry you across the barriers of time and the handicaps of space to the very source of the divine mind and on beyond, even to the Paradise Father of Adjusters.
It is Jesusonian as it derives by the Gospel OF Jesus as delivered and lived by him in the 4th Epochal Revelation of God and his love to all humanity. Call it what you will.
I understand the quote you provided, so as you indicated above “the leader would be the pilot”, the thought adjuster? Whoes, thought adjuster? If the thought adjuster is the real spiritual devine self, then the leader is the morontia self, correct? Or, am I mistaken? Can you explain further?
Here is a question that I don’t think has been asked. The atonement doctrine is sentral to Christianity. As I read before, some theologans (mostly from the liberal camp) I know that’s misspelled but I’m not going to correct it, no longer believe in it, but facts are facts. It is the core of Christianity as practiced buy the majority of Christians, no matter what the denomination. If you take that away, then they would no longer be Christian. It has been the core of that faith for the past 2000 years. If you take the core away, then the faith no longer exists.
Putting that aside for the moment, how would you do it? How would you essentially destroy a faith that has been practiced for two thousand years? For that is what you would be doing if you took that doctrine away from it.
A follow up question would be what would you replace Christianity with? Most people are not ready for the Urantia Book. Let’s be honest about it. Its’ sheer length is to much for most and the deep thinking required to study it does not interest most people.
page 1094 – “While religion produces growth of meanings and enhancement of values, evil always results when purely personal evaluations are elevated to the levels of absolutes.”
@Bradley who just HAD to get this not-subtle-at-all dig in, “….And I don’t think anyone filled with blame, anger, hate, impatience, intolerance, and a shrill voice offers any light or example or truth or value to that love driven service ministry that lies before every man and woman of every generation…..”
I am not going to tolerate your personal crap anymore, Bradley. I have ALWAYS LIVED what I believe because USA protected my RIGHT to “go with God”. I recently ministered, as a public transportation driver, to 600 people, on average, a month. There was a camera rolling inside the vehicle the entire time. The corporation only keeps the footage needed to understand accidents or other cases involving violence, robbery, drugs, etc. It is the second most dangerous job after police work. So I have PERSONALLY experienced how I land with people in random 8 minute “speed-dating” situations and it is overwhelming the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you so muscularly want to paint me as, along with the horse biting on the bit that Mara threw in. You are both LYING about my character and what makes it fall into the bat-sht crazy category for me (my judgement of THIS situation at THIS point in time) is that I am NOT aware of knowing either of you in the flesh, but for all I know you just might have a secret position of authority to collect info off my laptop or phone or access IRS and bank and payroll records or god-knows-what-else! I see who the personalities are in TUBs self-proclaimed leadership positions and there is an overabundance of Psycho-logicians, with most of the females being some kind of “human resource” mavens in multi-national corps. I already have more than enough evidence to proceed with a civil case of consistent character assassination since 1991. Consider this your last and final warning before the Just War kicks in.
Back to “religion”. Considering how DEEPLY rooted TUB, such as it is with its infitesimally small cadre of self-proclaimed leaders and teachers, IS, in ONLY the secular world – (do you guys even use Roberts Rules or are you still going with the “voices in her head” – conduct of the business of publishing and distributing a BOOK) – your mantra of “personal” growth is a solar system without gravity so how dare you judge how any one “person” is doing?
THIS time around I will NOT be providing “inspiration” that ends up coming out of the mouths of your hand picked POLITICAL sycophants. I LIVE as an “inspiration”, mano et mano, off the virtual reality grid.
What I have learned from LISTENING to 600+ people a month, is that WE have “changed” far beyond what TUB readers in their ivory towers can imagine. But, guess what the FACTS are, NOW. My parish, built by steelworkers on their days off from 12 hour shifts during the Depression, was robbed by a foreign “visiting” Monsignor – coffers COMPLETELY emptied out – which meant that the grammar school was closed, the property seized, and the church was saved only because Verizon leased the church steeple to put up a cell phone tower. There is a lot more to this story and I might just be the one to put it all together – just the facts, Ma’am. It is a story that deserves to be told as CONTRAST to all the RICH mega-church, TV preaching “god wants you to be rich” stuff that certainly does not depend on Atonement Doctrines – for THEMSELVES.
So where are all the changed through affliction religionists supposed to gather NOW? And can not one question why the only re-inventing my parish went through was to become a cell tower for Verizon?
Nihilism changes the world one individual at a time, right? But it does so by going after the COLLECTIVE. What is WRONG with loving your country when that love is the natural social progression from love in the home?
So here we are critically examining the jingoism – “It is personal”. Indeed it is and was. Major secular force was applied to MY parish to drive the spiritual brotherhood into navel-gazing instead of letting us do bold and beautiful things, as a group, like what was done in the 1920s when people had the FREEDOM to make their lives less miserable through HONEST WORK which, lo and behold, flowered into a CHURCH for the followers of Jesus.
Let em apply some “science” here – when you look at the chain of events – HISTORY – of that parish – on the concrete time/space continuum, or what science calls the temporal data (A happened then B happened then C happened), how was the “personal religion” DOCTRINE implemented? By Nihilism. Destroy where they LIVE.
I am in wonderment that you all want to “go there” to the full tilt on this one. The metadata of temporal facts is such a clear CONTRAST to the LIES of my lack of “personal growth”.
I have the right, always did, to stop MY car that you jumped into as a PREDATOR, and say “Get the _____ out”.
With TUB, the TAs have a lot more to work with, no? What could they do with someone who gets and gives unconditional love to their cat, watching them lick themselves clean for hours? Not much.
“Religion” as a mind endowment is what reaches out to the TA – a frequency, if you will. And if a TA is assigned to a woman, it is not becoming one with her as a man. SPIRIT is PRIMAL – First Source and Center fragment. In any case, I will probably always be the “negative” charge when coupled with a “positive” partner in the adventures of time and space all the way to Paradise.
Sorry, Vern, will get back to the REAL conversation later, had to clean things up first with some heavy lifting. Divorce from PREDATORS is a very nasty business when all one is supposed to use is “a personal religion”, and they can use everything else to make sure you stick to their agenda for you.
Here is a question that I don’t think has been asked. The atonement doctrine is sentral to Christianity. As I read before, some theologans (mostly from the liberal camp) I know that’s misspelled but I’m not going to correct it, no longer believe in it, but facts are facts. It is the core of Christianity as practiced buy the majority of Christians, no matter what the denomination. If you take that away, then they would no longer be Christian. It has been the core of that faith for the past 2000 years. If you take the core away, then the faith no longer exists. Putting that aside for the moment, how would you do it? How would you essentially destroy a faith that has been practiced for two thousand years? For that is what you would be doing if you took that doctrine away from it. A follow up question would be what would you replace Christianity with? Most people are not ready for the Urantia Book. Let’s be honest about it. Its’ sheer length is to much for most and the deep thinking required to study it does not interest most people.
Greetings Chuck….good points. Reminds me of new wine in old skins. I think the cocoon is but a bridge and will at some time delivered its purpose which has been but to “hold” the Jesusonian gospel within its crude and primitive atonement doctrine. The cocoon will wither as the gospel emerges. Did Jesus try to fit the gospel into the Jewish traditions and falsehoods? Christians must abandon atonement for the true gospel as delivered by their namesake. Well said.
147:7.2 (1655.4) On Tuesday evening Jesus was conducting one of his customary classes of questions and answers when the leader of the six spies said to him: “I was today talking with one of John’s disciples who is here attending upon your teaching, and we were at a loss to understand why you never command your disciples to fast and pray as we Pharisees fast and as John bade his followers.” And Jesus, referring to a statement by John, answered this questioner: “Do the sons of the bridechamber fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as the bridegroom remains with them, they can hardly fast. But the time is coming when the bridegroom shall be taken away, and during those times the children of the bridechamber undoubtedly will fast and pray. To pray is natural for the children of light, but fasting is not a part of the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. Be reminded that a wise tailor does not sew a piece of new and unshrunk cloth upon an old garment, lest, when it is wet, it shrink and produce a worse rent. Neither do men put new wine into old wine skins, lest the new wine burst the skins so that both the wine and the skins perish. The wise man puts the new wine into fresh wine skins. Therefore do my disciples show wisdom in that they do not bring too much of the old order over into the new teaching of the gospel of the kingdom. You who have lost your teacher may be justified in fasting for a time. Fasting may be an appropriate part of the law of Moses, but in the coming kingdom the sons of God shall experience freedom from fear and joy in the divine spirit.” And when they heard these words, the disciples of John were comforted while the Pharisees themselves were the more confounded.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
@Bradley – You have no point to make, no authority, and no MORAL or ethical standing for your JUDGMENTS in the light of all other evidence YOU have presented.
At least everyone now also knows you do not have the genetic INTELLECT or any sincere desire to “know thy enemy.”
Once again you provided proof that you are a PREDATOR.
Typical PREDATOR response, Bradley – “….Me here: Nuff said. Thanks for proving my point….”
Hi Chuck, you wrote, “Here is a question that I don’t think has been asked. The atonement doctrine is sentral to Christianity. As I read before, some theologans (mostly from the liberal camp) I know that’s misspelled but I’m not going to correct it, no longer believe in it, but facts are facts. It is the core of Christianity as practiced buy the majority of Christians, no matter what the denomination. If you take that away, then they would no longer be Christian. It has been the core of that faith for the past 2000 years. If you take the core away, then the faith no longer exists.”
Can you help me out and clarify where you got this information from….?
