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What steps can Christianity take to re-invent itself?

197 posts · 15 participants · started May 31, 2015, 1:16 AM

  1. Sabinatu wrote:  In spiritual brotherhood with you for the Peace Doctrine replacement of the Atonement Doctrine – all things are possible with God…
    Great! We’re on a unity ticket with this one. The kind of Peace Doctrine that results in the heroism of the “God-knowing man” (God-knowing woman too).

    “Today, the unbelievers may taunt you with preaching a gospel of nonresistance and with living lives of nonviolence, but you are the first volunteers of a long line of sincere believers in the gospel of this kingdom who will astonish all mankind by their heroic devotion to these teachings. No armies of the world have ever displayed more courage and bravery than will be portrayed by you and your loyal successors who shall go forth to all the world proclaiming the good news — the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of men. The courage of the flesh is the lowest form of bravery. Mind bravery is a higher type of human courage, but the highest and supreme is uncompromising loyalty to the enlightened convictions of profound spiritual realities. And such courage constitutes the heroism of the God-knowing man. And you are all God-knowing men; you are in very truth the personal associates of the Son of Man.”  [Paper 143:1.7 page 1608:4]

    Interesting the scale of value attributed to courage in actually living and actively promoting nonviolence.

  2. MAD (mutually assured destruction) is still working as a negative incentive for “peace”…the “greed is good” factor is not…

  3. Sabinatu wrote:  …incentive for “peace”
    Fear is ever an unworthy reason to invoke action. Love of doing good must supplant fear of doing wrong. The positive should be accentuated over the negative as the sure way of making lasting progress. The mind that can appreciate long term benefits of peace will be more deeply impressed with its value than by the short term fear-induced avoidance of the pain of war which has repeatedly failed.

     Belief may not be able to resist doubt and withstand fear, but faith is always triumphant over doubting, for faith is both positive and living. The positive always has the advantage over the negative, truth over error, experience over theory, spiritual realities over the isolated facts of time and space. The convincing evidence of this spiritual certainty consists in the social fruits of the spirit which such believers, faithers, yield as a result of this genuine spiritual experience. Said Jesus: “If you love your fellows as I have loved you, then shall all men know that you are my disciples.” [Paper 102:6.7, page 1125.2]

    Jesus method of teaching was to accentuate the positive over the negative and it behooves us to do likewise.

    Jesus had little to say about the social vices of his day; seldom did he make reference to moral delinquency. He was a positive teacher of true virtue. He studiously avoided the negative method of imparting instruction; he refused to advertise evil. He was not even a moral reformer. He well knew, and so taught his apostles, that the sensual urges of mankind are not suppressed by either religious rebuke or legal prohibitions. His few denunciations were largely directed against pride, cruelty, oppression, and hypocrisy. [Paper 140:8.21, page 1582.2]

  4. USA has never been in worse shape, financially, than it is now because of the fact that the military industrial complex has taken the last egg-laying chicken from it citizens to MATCH the bullying power of a couple of other players on the world’s stage. So if 93 million people no longer have a “job” because of such massive financial support to maintain MAD, and MAD is not working, how can normal minded people no get all negative-y ??!!

    Get rid of that habit of killing the messenger. I agree, how hard is it to figure out when the CONTRAST is so clear.

    Look, we agreed on a course of action for Christianity – the replacement of that bankrupt Atonement Doctrine because that doctrine created a FALSE religion and that kind of faux “be nice-y nice-y to iniquitors or we will crucify you” religion just adds to the MORAL chaos of transition times.

    RELIGION (Papers 99 – 103) needs to come alive and that happens when there is a course of action to take. It is CLEARLY stated as a one-liner in TUB that the main job of religion is to carry the banner of PEACE for all the peoples.

    Done and done ;-)

  5. His few denunciations were largely directed against pride, cruelty, oppression, and hypocrisy. [Paper 140:8.21, page 1582.2]

    I am not wasting my time hunting for those few denunciations to use as a gracious slap – suffice it to say even Jesus could not shut up about certain things in his earth time NOW in the flesh.

    Maybe I am delusional, but I do believe that if some of the long time TUB readers who rehash the same issues over and over and over again with fewer and fewer people in the conversation over the decades were to defend my sour grapes, negativity and ungraciousness as vociferously as they defend Lucifer when he attempted to take away my rights for a Finaliter career – I believe God would still find as much love in his heart for me as Lucifer’s defenders insist God has for Lucifer.

    Door is open for the Peace Train…truly ALL aboard…

  6. I agree…..maybe you are delusional…..who has defended Lucifer that now discourses with you?  Who would want to defend bitterness and sour grapes….except he who delivers them?

    Incomprehensible.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  7. Sabinatu wrote:  …His few denunciations were largely directed against pride, cruelty, oppression, and hypocrisy.
    Sab my friend, I’m keenly concerned as you are at the evidence of “pride,” “cruelty,” “oppression,” and “hypocrisy” which abounds in the society to which we belong. A society that has lost its moral compass by willful resistance to spirit leading.
    I, like you, think the “ever nice-nice” “boiled frog” position of my fellow religionists is reality avoidance. Patience is a virtue but doing right is advocated when confronted by obvious wrong. I’m sure Christianity can begin to act more in accordance with the principles it proclaims as virtuous. Christianity must cease its ambitious grasp at power, rather, by virtue of its acts of loving service in promoting peace, prove itself worthy.
    Ambition is dangerous until it is fully socialized. You have not truly acquired any virtue until your acts make you worthy of it. [Paper48:7.19, page 557.3]
    It is said “pride goes before the fall” there are many clever people in the world and that is evidence of an intelligent and educated society, however, cleverness is no substitute for true character.
    A display of specialized skill does not signify possession of spiritual capacity. Cleverness is not a substitute for true character. [Paper48:7.3, page 556.3]
    The lessons of history and the loving spirit ministry of our Though Adjuster patiently instructs and lovingly warns each one of us respecting critical tendencies and the subtle development of pride-of-self and its associated “exaggeration” of the feeling of self-importance. So sad to witness in today’s society, it seems this loving inner counsel is not being as fully heeded as it could be.

    The world is experiencing characteristics already anticipated, and described to us as a stage of the “Material Comfort Era.”

    The material-comfort era. After food problems have been partially solved and some degree of security has been attained, the additional leisure is utilized to promote personal comfort. Luxury vies with necessity in occupying the center of the stage of human activities. Such an age is all too often characterized by tyranny, intolerance, gluttony, and drunkenness. The weaker elements of the races incline towards excesses and brutality. Gradually these pleasure-seeking weaklings are subjugated by the more strong and truth-loving elements of the advancing civilization. [Paper 50:5.6, page 577.1]

    We are certainly seeing manifestation of excesses and brutality even in the most civilized of nations. However, it’s better to focus on what is worth striving for and work with every ounce of strength towards it. Excess of godlessness is most contrastive and instructive, focusing the resolve of the strong and truth-loving elements of society to act.

    To enjoy privilege without abuse, to have liberty without license, to possess power and steadfastly refuse to use it for self-aggrandizement — these are the marks of high civilization. [Paper 48:7.8, page 556.8]

    Cruelty is incompatible with the advancing ideals of a high civilization which aim to advance the nobility of the person, militarism is already being replaced by industrialism as a peaceful means of achieving harmonious human relations. Christianity could do more to promote peace by disassociating itself from all forms of militarism.

    Militarism is autocratic and cruel — savage. It promotes social organization among the conquerors but disintegrates the vanquished. Industrialism is more civilized and should be so carried on as to promote initiative and to encourage individualism. Society should in every way possible foster originality. [Paper 70:2.18, page 786:9]

    …Old-fashioned war did select the innately great men for leadership, but modern war no longer does this. To discover leaders society must now turn to the conquests of peace: industry, science, and social achievement.  [Paper 70:2.21, page 786:12]

    Institutionalized Christianity once could turn a deaf ear to the plight of the “oppressed,” but no longer, for these same oppressed have now become the beneficiaries of the struggles for emancipation and are now the informed members of a democratic society enfranchised with the legitimacy of voting rights under law.

    A godless humanitarianism is, humanly speaking, a noble gesture, but true religion is the only power which can lastingly increase the responsiveness of one social group to the needs and sufferings of other groups. In the past, institutional religion could remain passive while the upper strata of society turned a deaf ear to the sufferings and oppression of the helpless lower strata, but in modern times these lower social orders are no longer so abjectly ignorant nor so politically helpless. [Paper 99:1.5, page 1087:2]

    Christianity has betrayed its spiritual mission when it is seen to favour the wealthy and ignore the rest. That is the height of hypocrisy. The Father “loathes hypocrisy” so we are well instructed to actively differentiate ourselves from it, in full confidence it is the right thing to do.

    “You do well to be meek before God and self-controlled before men, but let your meekness be of spiritual origin and not the self-deceptive display of a self-conscious sense of self-righteous superiority. The prophet spoke advisedly when he said, ‘Walk humbly with God,’ for, while the Father in heaven is the Infinite and the Eternal, he also dwells ‘with him who is of a contrite mind and a humble spirit.’ My Father disdains pride, loathes hypocrisy, and abhors iniquity. And it was to emphasize the value of sincerity and perfect trust in the loving support and faithful guidance of the heavenly Father that I have so often referred to the little child as illustrative of the attitude of mind and the response of spirit which are so essential to the entrance of mortal man into the spirit realities of the kingdom of heaven.”  [Paper 149:6.11, page 1676:5]

    Sab my friend, I see you more as a rough diamond than a negative disrupter, it seems you are a practitioner of the principle that “truth never suffers from honest enquiry,” however, it would do no harm to be “soothed by the milk of human kindness” every now and then.

  8. @Vern – Cruelty is incompatible with the advancing ideals of a high civilization which aim to advance the nobility of the person, militarism is already being replaced by industrialism as a peaceful means of achieving harmonious human relations. Christianity could do more to promote peace by disassociating itself from all forms of militarism.

    I agree.  But as you know, USA “spends” more of it’s “industrialism” on “militarism” than all the other countries of the planet combined.

    There is no milk of human kindness in the top-down pressure – the organization of government and rule of law – in current USA.  Look at how easily character is attacked and damaged by people holding the least of a little power over others – like the acting censors on TUB readership forums!!

    “Religion” as an innate part of the COSMIC MIND we were given access to – the human mind – is really under vicious pre-emptive attack worldwide.

    This forcing underground of “religion” through The Patriot Act which is the targeted economic genocide operation will not succeed in erradicating “religion” from the human mind and nature.

    I am stunned by how much SPIRITUAL TRUTH people have discovered with just the Spirit of Truth and TAs (which they do not know exist as such). It is a pleasure and an honor that they feel free to discuss these discoveries with me.  Their spiritual freedom increases mine – I can share with as much enthusiasm as possible the best book I ever read without worry.

    Okay, so they are also intrigued by the fact that no one knows about the book because of “national security” issues CIA has with Midwayers and visitors from other planets ;-)

    The only political reason I can think of – in USA – why the CHristian priesthoods of dogma thongma and doctrinal authority do not confine themselves to promoting the ways of PEACE is because their goal IS to repel all but those personality types that will continue to support traditions that are impotent in marshalling spiritual power and insight.

    Just like in Mother Russia, when “communism” demanded atheism ala their “patriot act”, REAL religion was driven underground where it was purified from the cosmically insane “ism” political entaglement.

    Same is happening in USA, at least among the “submerged violet blood”….but because of the problems with the overpopulation of the “markedly unfit”, it is imperative that SOMEWHERE on this planet be made safe again for an EXPERIENTIALLY EARNED RULE OF LAW to protect the “idealists”.

    Might be Australia ;-)

  9. Sabinatu, you sound suspiciously like nameless until fused from a previous incarnation of this forum.  Are you one and the same person, a woman from USA?  Just curious.

    Don’t worry folks, I’m not coming back.  There’s just no way of finding out this information without coming on the forum.  Still no PM’s available for this kind of thing.

    Sorry to interrupt.  Would love to know though.

  10. Bonita wrote:  Sabinatu, you sound suspiciously like nameless until fused
    .
    Bonita!  I miss you!
    .
    You might be onto something here.
    .
    Thanks for popping up for a second.
  11. —

    The eternal God is our refuge.
    He is a faithful Creator.

  12. Sabinatu wrote:  protect the “idealists”.
    Love it!
  13. Here’s a quick refresher on “idealists”

    Havona natives are “idealists,” but they were born that way; they are wholly ignorant of the ecstasy of becoming such by exhilarating choice.

    The creatures of Havona are naturally brave, but they are not courageous in the human sense. They are innately kind and considerate, but hardly altruistic in the human way. They are expectant of a pleasant future, but not hopeful in the exquisite manner of the trusting mortal of the uncertain evolutionary spheres. They have faith in the stability of the universe, but they are utter strangers to that saving faith whereby mortal man climbs from the status of an animal up to the portals of Paradise. They love the truth, but they know nothing of its soul-saving qualities. They are idealists, but they were born that way; they are wholly ignorant of the ecstasy of becoming such by exhilarating choice. They are loyal, but they have never experienced the thrill of wholehearted and intelligent devotion to duty in the face of temptation to default. They are unselfish, but they never gained such levels of experience by the magnificent conquest of a belligerent self. They enjoy pleasure, but they do not comprehend the sweetness of the pleasure escape from the pain potential. [Paper3:5.17. page 52:3]

    Like Jesus, “idealists” are practitioners of non-violence, pragmatism necessitates adequate defenses, only religious idealism can ensure the requisite restraint to prevent a regression into aggression. Idealists do need to be fostered…..protected even.

    Idealism can never survive on an evolving planet if the idealists in each generation permit themselves to be exterminated by the baser orders of humanity. And here is the great test of idealism: Can an advanced society maintain that military preparedness which renders it secure from all attack by its war-loving neighbors without yielding to the temptation to employ this military strength in offensive operations against other peoples for purposes of selfish gain or national aggrandizement? National survival demands preparedness, and religious idealism alone can prevent the prostitution of preparedness into aggression. Only love, brotherhood, can prevent the strong from oppressing the weak. [Paper 71:4.17. page 804:17]

    The circumstances of life and the immediate practical requirements of responsibility are a challenge for “idealists” who must put their dreams on hold or have them dimmed by the passing of the moment of highest inspiration.

    Apparently all Jesus’ plans for a career were thwarted. The future did not look bright as matters now developed. But he did not falter; he was not discouraged. He lived on, day by day, doing well the present duty and faithfully discharging the immediate responsibilities of his station in life. Jesus’ life is the everlasting comfort of all disappointed idealists. [Paper 126:5.4. page 1393:1]

    There are scientists and “idealists” who share a common standard of high moral values and spiritual test levels. Both are on trial before the bar of human need.

    The materialistic scientist and the extreme idealist are destined always to be at loggerheads. This is not true of those scientists and idealists who are in possession of a common standard of high moral values and spiritual test levels. In every age scientists and religionists must recognize that they are on trial before the bar of human need. They must eschew all warfare between themselves while they strive valiantly to justify their continued survival by enhanced devotion to the service of human progress. If the so-called science or religion of any age is false, then must it either purify its activities or pass away before the emergence of a material science or spiritual religion of a truer and more worthy order. [Paper 132:1.4, page 1457:3]

    Rather than allowing themselves to drift in the currents of popular opinion, “idealists” dare to row an original course through the prevailing tide.

    Mechanists — humanists — tend to drift with the material currents. Idealists and spiritists dare to use their oars with intelligence and vigor in order to modify the apparently purely material course of the energy streams. [Paper 195:7.4, page 2080:4]

  14. Bonita wrote:  Don’t worry folks, I’m not coming back.
    Why not?
    BTW I’m glad to see you too, it’s been a while.
  15. More information in support of the case for Christianity to rid itself of the primitive atonement doctrine. The notion that every person is born into spiritual debt slavery is perpetuation of soul hopelessness and attempts to nullify the fact of sonship status and high spirit destiny of the person as Jesus taught. Atonement runs counter to the liberating proclamation “the kingdom is within you” where entrance is simply acceptance of the fact of sonship by faith, without any prior conditions necessary.

    The doctrine of original sin, or racial guilt, started every person out in serious debt to the spirit powers

    The earliest idea of the sacrifice was that of a neutrality assessment levied by ancestral spirits; only later did the idea of atonement develop. As man got away from the notion of the evolutionary origin of the race, as the traditions of the days of the Planetary Prince and the sojourn of Adam filtered down through time, the concept of sin and of original sin became widespread, so that sacrifice for accidental and personal sin evolved into the doctrine of sacrifice for the atonement of racial sin. The atonement of the sacrifice was a blanket insurance device which covered even the resentment and jealousy of an unknown god. [Paper 89:4.5, page 978:2]

    Atonement is a man-made, fear-motivated, blanket spiritual insurance policy.

    Surrounded by so many sensitive spirits and grasping gods, primitive man was face to face with such a host of creditor deities that it required all the priests, ritual, and sacrifices throughout an entire lifetime to get him out of spiritual debt. The doctrine of original sin, or racial guilt, started every person out in serious debt to the spirit powers. [Paper 89:4.6, page 978:3]

  16. Vern wrote: Why not?
    I left so BB can come back.  I don’t want to be the cause of anyone’s bad feelings, as I’ve been told by many here that I am.  Also, it seems to me that most of the contributors and moderators on this forum have bad feelings toward me and I don’t like being in a negative environment. Besides, it seems like people mostly talk to themselves here.  Nevertheless, I continue to read when I can.  I’m mostly interested to know about nameless until fused.  I think she lives, used to live, somewhere near me.  There aren’t many readers in my area.
  17. Bonita wrote:  I left so BB can come back.
    Hi Bonita,
    I Really appreciate you taking a moment to reply, thanks. I gather BB is Brooklynborn. I know that a group of posters that once came when the previous Forum was in place, do get together in another forum. I’ve had emails from Menno who is part of that group who comprise Alina, Kookaburra, Pike and Brooklynborn who have become good friends and can discuss ideas and experiences openly.
  18. Vern,

    Are you saying that BB is not interested in coming back? That my absence is in vain?  BTW, I miss Pike and Alina.  They were deep thinkers and good conversationalists.  Nevertheless, I continue to feel unwelcome here.  Moderator 2 got on my last nerve. I don’t see it as a friendly place of discourse at all, but rather an arena for essayists.  Perhaps that is a better way of proceeding?  Writing essays, that is.

    Thanks for the kind reply though.  Carry on.

  19. Bonita wrote:  BTW, I miss Pike and Alina.
    Yes, so do I.
    Menno tells me he thinks Alina has a very deep knowledge of The Urantia Book and she is a fluent Spanish speaker. I’ve just sent a message to him saying you dropped by, hope that’s OK. I’m hoping some of the gang will come by and post here again, this place sure could do with a bit of life, I agree with you.

    I know Nigel misses you, he mentioned you last week at our Canberra Study Group.

    Well with regard to a friendly atmosphere we can make it that way. Not everyone is a typist, for some a cut and paste approach works to present an idea or make a point. I can understand that you might seek a bit more depth other than seeing paragraphs of what you already have read and are familiar with. I guess it takes time to have the concepts living inside the mind ready to be discussed creatively as personal experiences.

    I guess that’s your issue with the essayists. I’m probably one of them. I get a idea and then go hunting and gathering and see what I come up with, if others join in, all the better. My latest escapade is “face to face” and then there’s this ongoing project on “what Christianity can do to re-invent itself?” That one is a response to the fact the last part of the book focuses so specifically on Christianity. We are informed after all, that the angels of the Churches have got the first watch of the revelation and I think their tenure is the first hundred years after which the angels of progress kick in. Well, 60 years has already passed, that’s the 1st generation of readers essentially and the spirit is moving among the people to get the spiritual brotherhood hooked up. It would be great if existing Christian believers could come alive with the religion of Jesus and the organic spiritual brotherhood ranks could swell substantially, God knows the book has lots of references about that.

    Anyway Bonita, I think you are most welcome here. You are as far as I’m concerned. And, you must have seen Mara’s welcoming message also.  I daresay that Moderator 2 is quite a charming person and would willingly allay your concerns with a “virtual” smile in your direction.

    Anyway, keep buzzing around this garden and see if any blossoms pop up worth landing on.

  20. Thanks for the gracious reply Vern. I think you misunderstood what I said about essayists.  I don’t have an issue with them.  I love to write essays myself.  I wish there was a place on this forum just for essays.  I think your essays on the discussion side of the forum is a form of thinking out loud, where it’s okay to have others help you develop your thoughts.  Essays are about already developed thoughts, or so I think.

    As for Menno and the gang, tell them I said hi.  As for Nigel, tell him that I’m still waiting for a response from an email conversation we started over a year and half ago.  Since he never replied, I take that as an unfriendly gesture.  And as for Moderator 2, I will not accept a virtual smile from a person who refuses to divulge his/her identity.  If you’re going to use my personal email account to contact me, then identify yourself and speak to me person to person, not moralizing automaton to person.  I’m highly offended by it. Highly.  No smiling here.

    Okay, it was nice having a chat and clearing the air.  Incidentally, while I’m at it, all of you sided with Moderator 2, as I recall.  And you all agreed with BB who called me a bully, among other nasty things.  Group justice reigns as they say. So, I’ll just read and keep my ideas to myself for now hoping that BB and his rebellion obsession will return as you folks and Moderator 2 obviously desire.

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