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What steps can Christianity take to re-invent itself?

197 posts · 15 participants · started May 31, 2015, 1:16 AM

  1. Vern wrote:  More than that, believers must be united and held together by the love they have in common.
    I belong to a non-denominational prayer circle in my community.  We meet once a week for an hour.  The basic religion is Christian, though one member always mentions she was raised Catholic and converted to Judaism.  In general participants recognize that each one of us is religiously imbued with the traditions of one of the mainstream religions, though Islam is not represented.  The person who leads the group assumed leadership right off the bat when we (she and I) formed the group about six months ago.  She is a natural leader.
    A few weeks ago she assigned someone to lead in her stead, as she was unable to attend that week.  The new leader prepared a plan in advance.  She had an idea and a plan.  Undaunted by what happened that morning, she carried out her plan most lovingly.  She brought three candles, a rose, a bell, a stopwatch and short script.  She said we are going to pray for each other today; we are going to go around the circle and the person on your left will stand behind you and put a hand on your shoulder; together we will silently pray for healing for you for two minutes; when I  ring the bell we will say together “Thank you God for your mercy and healing love.”
    Immediately, one one the members balked and staunchly refused to participate in the praying.  Her husband did participate – good for him.  She was free to leave the room, but stayed throughout, though she would not participate in any part of what took place then or later.  There was a cloud of tension and agitation over our small group that morning, because of the overt reactions of one person.  The tension is now a part of our group memory, and it is an unpleasant memory.
    In the aftermath, emails of criticism went around and among several participants.  The end result was that the brave leader who dared to do something different in our prayer circle bowed out and she no longer attends.  It is a great loss to us and I miss her deeply.
    195:10:14   It is all too true that such a church would not have survived unless there had been men in the world who preferred such a style of worship. Many spiritually indolent souls crave an ancient and authoritative religion of ritual and sacred traditions. Human evolution and spiritual progress are hardly sufficient to enable all men to dispense with religious authority. And the invisible brotherhood of the kingdom may well include these family groups of various social and temperamental classes if they are only willing to become truly spirit-led sons of God. But in this brotherhood of Jesus there is no place for sectarian rivalry, group bitterness, nor assertions of moral superiority and spiritual infallibility.
  2. Mara wrote: I belong to a non-denominational prayer circle in my community. We meet once a week for an hour.
    Thanks for sharing the experiences you’ve had with this group of friends. Sad that the harmony has been disrupted in the instance you’ve described. Tolerance grows as friendships do.
    We are attempting to convey to our fellow Christian believers, the significance of the drawing power of “spiritual unity” where it is not necessary to think alike to be kindred spirits. Recognition of brotherhood under the Fatherhood of God is inclusive of diversity.

    SPIRITUAL UNITY

    One of the most eventful of all the evening conferences at Amathus was the session having to do with the discussion of spiritual unity. James Zebedee had asked, “Master, how shall we learn to see alike and thereby enjoy more harmony among ourselves?” When Jesus heard this question, he was stirred within his spirit, so much so that he replied: “James, James, when did I teach you that you should all see alike? I have come into the world to proclaim spiritual liberty to the end that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God. I do not desire that social harmony and fraternal peace shall be purchased by the sacrifice of free personality and spiritual originality. What I require of you, my apostles, is spirit unity — and that you can experience in the joy of your united dedication to the wholehearted doing of the will of my Father in heaven. You do not have to see alike or feel alike or even think alike in order spiritually to be alike. Spiritual unity is derived from the consciousness that each of you is indwelt, and increasingly dominated, by the spirit gift of the heavenly Father. Your apostolic harmony must grow out of the fact that the spirit hope of each of you is identical in origin, nature, and destiny.” [Paper141:5.1, page 1591:6]

    We are family, our social harmony must grow out of the fact of sonship, our spiritual hopes are identical. All of us share the same origin and are striving to achieve the same destiny. Before God there is equal opportunity, freedom of choice is a universe reality. The door is open, let all who will, come.

  3. Vern wrote:“spiritual unity”
    You point is well taken, but spiritual unity lost in Christianity’s formalism, overorganization, intellectualism, and I would include materialism and ironically, the denial of some discoveries of science.  Spiritual unity is lost in sectarianism.  Christianity looses in it’s fear of other great religions, and looses in it’s prediction of the end of the world when Jesus comes back and makes the world a paradise place.
    (P.2083 – §5)  Christianity has dared to lower its ideals before the challenge of human greed, war-madness, and the lust for power; but the religion of Jesus stands as the unsullied and transcendent spiritual summons, calling to the best there is in man to rise above all these legacies of animal evolution and, by grace, attain the moral heights of true human destiny.
    (P.2083 – §6)  Christianity is threatened by slow death from formalism, overorganization, intellectualism, and other nonspiritual trends. The modern Christian church is not such a brotherhood of dynamic believers as Jesus commissioned continuously to effect the spiritual transformation of successive generations of mankind.
    P.2083 – §7 So-called Christianity has become a social and cultural movement as well as a religious belief and practice. The stream of modern Christianity drains many an ancient pagan swamp and many a barbarian morass; many olden cultural watersheds drain into this present-day cultural stream as well as the high Galilean tablelands which are supposed to be its exclusive source.
    Even some non-Christians believe the end-times are here and happening now.  But these ideas are not new.
    (P.1500 – §2) About one hundred years before the days of Jesus and John a new school of religious teachers arose in Palestine, the apocalyptists. These new teachers evolved a system of belief that accounted for the sufferings and humiliation of the Jews on the ground that they were paying the penalty for the nation’s sins.  They fell back onto the well-known reasons assigned to explain the Babylonian and other captivities of former times. But, so taught the apocalyptists, Israel should take heart; the days of their affliction were almost over; the discipline of God’s chosen people was about finished; God’s patience with the gentile foreigners was about exhausted. The end of Roman rule was synonymous with the end of the age and, in a certain sense, with the end of the world. These new teachers leaned heavily on the predictions of Daniel, and they consistently taught that creation was about to pass into its final stage; the kingdoms of this world were about to become the kingdom of God. To the Jewish mind of that day this was the meaning of that phrase–the kingdom of heaven–which runs throughout the teachings of both John and Jesus. To the Jews of Palestine the phrase “kingdom of heaven” had but one meaning: an absolutely righteous state in which God (the Messiah) would rule the nations of earth in perfection of power just as he ruled in heaven–“Your will be done on earth as in heaven.”
  4. Mara wrote:  P.2083 – §7 So-called Christianity has become a social and cultural movement as well as a religious belief and practice.
    What will it take for so-called Christianity to lower its volume to a whisper in the social, political, economic and cultural arenas of human life?  Why doesn’t so-called Christianity look to Jesus and the life he lived that we each become inspired by his life and aim for the best which always pertains to “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.” (1:0:3)
    196:1:3   To “follow Jesus” means to personally share his religious faith and to enter into the spirit of the Master’s life of unselfish service for man. One of the most important things in human living is to find out what Jesus believed, to discover his ideals, and to strive for the achievement of his exalted life purpose. Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it.
    Just the other day in prayer circle the general consensus was that we are in end-times.  To these sincere Christians and one convert-to-Judaism, the concept of end-times explains all the turmoil, the wars, the  diseases, the problems and afflictions of the world today.  Period.  One person said, “We know who is behind ll of it,” meaning the devil by implication.  Someone asked, ” Where did wars start?”  I said, well, look at Cain and Able.  I then asked this: Cain went to the land of Nod and got himself a wife – Who were those people?  One person said she always wondered about that.  Were there people here before Adam and Eve?
  5. Mara wrote: Christianity looses in its fear of other great religions, and looses in its prediction of the end of the world when Jesus comes back and makes the world a paradise place.
    Christians are suffering the same delusion as the Jews with their endless search for a Messiah in this fairy story of rescue without need to do anything except pray and sway with arms extended.
    To make spiritual progress entails display of fruits of the spirit, sincerity and tolerance manifested in loving service to our fellows.
    That said, I wanted to draw attention to one conceptual step that is required to take Christianity to the next level and is is somewhat related to the prevailing attitude of miracle-mindedness surrounding Jesus’ promise to return.
    Just as there have been evolutionary steps to move from an angry God of vengeance to a fatherly God of love, we still tend to athropomorphise deity. What Christianity has achieved is the highest anthropomorphism that man can ever conceive.

    The concept of a semihuman and jealous God is an inevitable transition between polytheism and sublime monotheism. An exalted anthropomorphism is the highest attainment level of purely evolutionary religion. Christianity has elevated the concept of anthropomorphism from the ideal of the human to the transcendent and divine concept of the person of the glorified Christ. And this is the highest anthropomorphism that man can ever conceive. [Paper5:4.9, page 67:7]

    Christianity must discover the religion of Jesus to move beyond its present indulgence in the super-person of “the glorified Christ.”

    The Christian concept of God is an attempt to combine three separate teachings:

    1. The Hebrew concept — God as a vindicator of moral values, a righteous God.

    2. The Greek concept — God as a unifier, a God of wisdom.

    3. Jesus’ concept — God as a living friend, a loving Father, the divine presence.

    It must therefore be evident that composite Christian theology encounters great difficulty in attaining consistency. This difficulty is further aggravated by the fact that the doctrines of early Christianity were generally based on the personal religious experience of three different persons: Philo of Alexandria, Jesus of Nazareth, and Paul of Tarsus. [Paper5:4.14, page 68:2]

    Into this composite Christian theology the “glorified Christ” has  become a liability, a barrier to progress, a stigma of divisiveness, a source of spiritual pride, the height of human arrogance, a root of human selfishness in generating misguided notions of smug superiority in those considering themselves “saved.”

    Christianity can be humble. A virtue sure to reap benefits as it turns to the Religion of Jesus in place of the religion about Jesus.

     In the study of the religious life of Jesus, view him positively. Think not so much of his sinlessness as of his righteousness, his loving service. Jesus upstepped the passive love disclosed in the Hebrew concept of the heavenly Father to the higher active and creature-loving affection of a God who is the Father of every individual, even of the wrongdoer. [Paper 5:4.15, page 68:3]

  6. Vern wrote:  .Christianity must discover the religion of Jesus. . .
    Isn’t Christianity satisfied with its status quo?  Have you any ideas how “Christianity” can discover the religion of Jesus?
    Our world is disadvantaged due to Lucifer’s folly and to Eve’s impatience.  And the adjudication of Lucifer’s machinations only recently have begun,  (67:4:7)   The missteps of Adam and Eve were errors of judgment, not the sin of conscious and deliberate rebellion. (76:5:1)  They were demoted to the status of mortals on Urantia.  But our world is tremendously advantaged by the fact and truth of the self-bestowal on our world of Michael, the Creator Son of our universe! and his subsequent bestowing of his Spirit of Truth, the Comforter, the spirit of Michael on Urantia.  Wow!  What an advantage we have!  Is our world now more difficult than ever in its history?  Do the problems and obstacles now seem more insuperable and beyond our solution in our time in history?  Adam and Eve were certainly discouraged by what they found when they got here about 38,000 years ago. (74:0:1)  Their knowledge and experience was superior to the primitives with whom they were to help uplift.  They were superior beings.
    We, who are trying to promote the teachings of the UB, are of the same cloth as our fellows on our planet.  We are not of the same cloth as the Material Sons and Daughters.  But Jesus is of the same cloth as are we, as he was born of a woman and lived as one of us.  The Creator of our universe who lived a human life 2,000 years ago! Wow!  Now we have the teachings of the UB – 60 years old – the teachings of Jesus.  But we are informed in the UB that we are a full dispensation behind, and we can learn more about this by studying post Adamic man in Paper 52.  For example:
    52:3:10   The post–Adamic epoch is the dispensation of internationalism. With the near completion of the task of race blending, nationalism wanes, and the brotherhood of man really begins to materialize. Representative government begins to take the place of the monarchial or paternal form of rulership. The educational system becomes world-wide, and gradually the languages of the races give way to the tongue of the violet people. Universal peace and co-operation are seldom attained until the races are fairly well blended, and until they speak a common language.
    They say, “Your world is a full dispensation and more behind the average planetary schedule.” ( 52:3:6) We’re behind, even though our Creator Son bestowed himself here!  But his bestowal was to the benefit the individual to inspire him to go in partnership with his fellows to help solve social, economic and political problems, but not in the name of one’s religion.
    (99:3:3) The religionist is not unsympathetic with social suffering, not unmindful of civil injustice, not insulated from economic thinking, neither insensible to political tyranny. Religion influences social reconstruction directly because it spiritualizes and idealizes the individual citizen. Indirectly, cultural civilization is influenced by the attitude of these individual religionists as they become active and influential members of various social, moral, economic, and political groups.
    99:3:15   Religionists, as a group, must never concern themselves with anything but religion, albeit any one such religionist, as an individual citizen, may become the outstanding leader of some social, economic, or political reconstruction movement.
    Is there such a critter as a religious reconstructionist?
  7. Mara wrote:Is there such a critter as a religious reconstructionist?
    Are we speaking of the next John the Baptist? Perhaps not, for such a title would imply an exclusively spiritual mission.
    The leadership of individual religionists in pivotal positions of social influence seem to be the realm of the Seraphic Planetary Government in the co-ordinate activities of the United Midwayers of Urantia in their activities related to the Reserve Corps of Destiny.
    Religionists, as a group, must never concern themselves with anything but religion, albeit any one such religionist, as an individual citizen, may become the outstanding leader of some social, economic, or political reconstruction movement. [Paper 99:3:15, page 1089:7]
    We have within our ranks the potential movers and shakers of the future, religionists, rightly must remain spiritually focussed on values, this leaves them primed to accept practical social evolution when is it presented by those individuals who articulate reform based on ideals, vision and values.
    Consider the power of musician to transform a planet?
    …But be not discouraged; some day a real musician may appear on Urantia, and whole peoples will be enthralled by the magnificent strains of his melodies. One such human being could forever change the course of a whole nation, even the entire civilized world. It is literally true, “melody has power a whole world to transform.” Forever, music will remain the universal language of men, angels, and spirits. Harmony is the speech of Havona. [Paper 44:1.15, page 500:6]
  8. In these accelerated times of applied reason and scientific discovery, thinking men and women are no longer satisfied by religion which is philosophically inconsistent. Faith is totally compatible with scientific enquiry, perfectly reasonable.

    Modern man is adequately self-conscious of religion, but his worshipful customs are confused and discredited by his accelerated social metamorphosis and unprecedented scientific developments. Thinking men and women want religion redefined, and this demand will compel religion to re-evaluate itself. [Paper 92:7.13, page 1013:8]

    The pace of change has accelerated in this Material Comfort Era which we inhabit, therefore greater is the need to seek the stability of enduring spiritual values, the province of religion.

    Modern man is confronted with the task of making more readjustments of human values in one generation than have been made in two thousand years. And this all influences the social attitude toward religion, for religion is a way of living as well as a technique of thinking. [Paper 92:7.14, page 1013.9]

    Faith does not shackle the creative imagination,

    neither does it maintain an unreasoning prejudice

    towards the discoveries of scientific investigation

     

     

  9. Humiliation and renunciation are debasing and at odds with the dignity of sonship as taught by Jesus. Christianity would do well to extoll the virtue of self mastery in place of demeaning self denial.

    …it became the custom to forgo many forms of physical pleasure, especially of a sexual nature. ([Paper 89:3.1, page 976:3]  

    Property was regarded as a spiritual handicap. These notions of the spiritual dangers of material possession were widespreadly entertained in the times of Philo and Paul, and they have markedly influenced European philosophy ever since.

    However, in these modern secular times where material comfort has become the goal of life more value is placed on earning capacity and unfortunately, has given rise to a culture of greed.

    Poverty was just a part of the ritual of the mortification of the flesh which, unfortunately, became incorporated into the writings and teachings of many religions, notably Christianity. Penance is the negative form of this ofttimes foolish ritual of renunciation. But all this taught the savage self-control, and that was a worth-while advancement in social evolution. Self-denial and self-control were two of the greatest social gains from early evolutionary religion. Self-control gave man a new philosophy of life; it taught him the art of augmenting life’s fraction by lowering the denominator of personal demands instead of always attempting to increase the numerator of selfish gratification. [Paper 89:3.3, page 976:5]

    Materialistic society without the stabilising influence of religion has made a run on increasing “the numerator of selfish gratification.”

    Life is meant to be enjoyable with rewards both physical and spiritual, “moderation eventuates in charm.”

    Someday man should learn how to enjoy liberty without license, nourishment without gluttony, and pleasure without debauchery. Self-control is a better human policy of behavior regulation than is extreme self-denial. [Paper 89:3.7, page 977:2]

     

  10. Woman is the moral standard bearer, spiritual leader, of society and Christianity would benefit greatly by elevating women to a equal status with men. To repair the lowly estate that Paul initially, and Christianity subsequently, unfortunately placed women in.

    …Woman, however, has always been the moral standard-bearer and the spiritual leader of mankind.… [Paper 84:6.4, page 938:8]

    We are informed Paul belonged to a cult which renounced sexual relations with women and as a result of his own self-denial his personal views became attached to Christian doctrine. We are aware of the sad legacy that has resulted from this the male dominated “celibate” clergy with little appreciation of the importance of marriage and consequent family life.

     It was only natural that the cult of renunciation and humiliation should have paid attention to sexual gratification. The continence cult originated as a ritual among soldiers prior to engaging in battle; in later days it became the practice of “saints.” This cult tolerated marriage only as an evil lesser than fornication. Many of the world’s great religions have been adversely influenced by this ancient cult, but none more markedly than Christianity. The Apostle Paul was a devotee of this cult, and his personal views are reflected in the teachings which he fastened onto Christian theology: “It is good for a man not to touch a woman.” “I would that all men were even as I myself.” “I say, therefore, to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them to abide even as I.” Paul well knew that such teachings were not a part of Jesus’ gospel, and his acknowledgment of this is illustrated by his statement, “I speak this by permission and not by commandment.” But this cult led Paul to look down upon women. And the pity of it all is that his personal opinions have long influenced the teachings of a great world religion. If the advice of the tentmaker-teacher were to be literally and universally obeyed, then would the human race come to a sudden and inglorious end. Furthermore, the involvement of a religion with the ancient continence cult leads directly to a war against marriage and the home, society’s veritable foundation and the basic institution of human progress. And it is not to be wondered at that all such beliefs fostered the formation of celibate priesthoods in the many religions of various peoples.[Paper89:3.6, page 977:1] 

    I smile when I think of Paul and read about the compensation for deficiencies experienced in a mortal life on the first mansion world. Was Paul a person of low sex drive or was he simply more comfortable in the company of men?

    Biological deficiencies were largely made up on the first mansion world. There defects in planetary experiences pertaining to sex life, family association, and parental function were either corrected or were projected for future rectification among the Material Son families on Jerusem. [Paper 47:4.7, page 535.3]

  11. We are informed the world has never seriously applied the teachings of Jesus.

    This world has never seriously or sincerely or honestly tried out these dynamic ideas and divine ideals of Jesus’ doctrine of the kingdom of heaven. But you should not become discouraged by the apparently slow progress of the kingdom idea on Urantia. Remember that the order of progressive evolution is subjected to sudden and unexpected periodical changes in both the material and the spiritual worlds. The bestowal of Jesus as an incarnated Son was just such a strange and unexpected event in the spiritual life of the world. Neither make the fatal mistake, in looking for the age manifestation of the kingdom, of failing to effect its establishment within your own souls. [Paper170:4.14, page 1863:12]

    Take note, progressive evolution is subject to sudden and unexpected periodical changes in both the material and the spiritual worlds, this is dependent on the rate of personal spiritual growth of people  individually, which manifests collectively.

    Had Jesus’ teachings been left as he presented them, the world would speedily have embraced the gospel of the kingdom. This potential for sudden change is still a potential to be realized.

    Jesus understood the minds of men. He knew what was in the heart of man, and had his teachings been left as he presented them, the only commentary being the inspired interpretation afforded by his earth life, all nations and all religions of the world would speedily have embraced the gospel of the kingdom. The well-meant efforts of Jesus’ early followers to restate his teachings so as to make them the more acceptable to certain nations, races, and religions, only resulted in making such teachings the less acceptable to all other nations, races, and religions. [Paper149:2.1, page 1670:2]

    The appeal to populism for acceptance was counter productive as history has clearly demonstrated, this has resulted in making such teachings the less acceptable to all other nations, races, and religions. Christianity as it stands is a hybrid religion, an amalgamation of Greek philosophy, Persian mysteries and more of Jesus’ gospel than any other religion. However, two great mistakes were made which need to be redressed:

    1. the atonement doctrine
    2. the religion of the glorified Christ displacing the religion of Jesus

    The Apostle Paul, in his efforts to bring the teachings of Jesus to the favorable notice of certain groups in his day, wrote many letters of instruction and admonition. Other teachers of Jesus’ gospel did likewise, but none of them realized that some of these writings would subsequently be brought together by those who would set them forth as the embodiment of the teachings of Jesus. And so, while so-called Christianity does contain more of the Master’s gospel than any other religion, it does also contain much that Jesus did not teach. Aside from the incorporation of many teachings from the Persian mysteries and much of the Greek philosophy into early Christianity, two great mistakes were made:  [Paper149:2.2, page 1670:3]

    1. The effort to connect the gospel teaching directly onto the Jewish theology, as illustrated by the Christian doctrines of the atonement — the teaching that Jesus was the sacrificed Son who would satisfy the Father’s stern justice and appease the divine wrath. These teachings originated in a praiseworthy effort to make the gospel of the kingdom more acceptable to disbelieving Jews. Though these efforts failed as far as winning the Jews was concerned, they did not fail to confuse and alienate many honest souls in all subsequent generations. [Paper149:2.3, page 1670:4]

    The tendency of humans to anthropomorphize deity is a primitive legacy, God does not display wrath or anger, nor jealousy. The ministry of the Eternal Son and the Creator Sons is to reveal the Father who is love. This divine Son is not engaged in the ignoble task of trying to persuade his gracious Father to love his lowly creatures and to show mercy to the wrongdoers of time. How wrong to envisage the Eternal Son as appealing to the Universal Father to show mercy to his lowly creatures on the material worlds of space! Such concepts of God are crude and grotesque.

    2. The second great blunder of the Master’s early followers, and one which all subsequent generations have persisted in perpetuating, was to organize the Christian teaching so completely about the person of Jesus. This overemphasis of the personality of Jesus in the theology of Christianity has worked to obscure his teachings, and all of this has made it increasingly difficult for Jews, Mohammedans, Hindus, and other Eastern religionists to accept the teachings of Jesus. We would not belittle the place of the person of Jesus in a religion which might bear his name, but we would not permit such consideration to eclipse his inspired life or to supplant his saving message: the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. [Paper149:2.4, page 1670:5]

    Christianity must discover the religion of Jesus to move beyond its present indulgence in the super-person of “the glorified Christ.”

    Each major religion has the concept of a Supreme being and man owes his existence to the outworking of the greater universe purpose of which man is a part. Universal identification of the part with the whole, is common to all religions. The truth of personal experience as validated by sonship with God would find ready acceptance within the tenets of existing world religions.

    The teachers of the religion of Jesus should approach other religions with the recognition of the truths which are held in common (many of which come directly or indirectly from Jesus’ message) while they refrain from placing so much emphasis on the differences. [Paper149:2.5, page 1670:6]

    There is much to learn in the wisdom of every culture of the world, Jesus method of teaching was to seek out the pearls of wisdom in the ancient writings and elevate them to reflect the higher concepts consistent with the Father’s divine nature and parental attitude. Surely we can do likewise.

    Thought Adjusters have flocked to Urantia since the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth there is a mighty spiritual fulcrum at work to effect positive spiritual and social outcomes. All religion and social consciousness are predicated on the consciousness of other-mindness.

    Because of the presence in your minds of the Thought Adjuster, it is no more of a mystery for you to know the mind of God than for you to be sure of the consciousness of knowing any other mind, human or superhuman. Religion and social consciousness have this in common: They are predicated on the consciousness of other-mindness. The technique whereby you can accept another’s idea as yours is the same whereby you may “let the mind which was in Christ be also in you.” [Paper 102:4.1, page 1123:1]

    In dealing with each other, in conversions with our fellows, ever is the appeal to spirit the wisest course of action. The God in you is actively responsive to the God within your neighbour if you are genuinely motivated by love………..desire to do good to others.

     

  12. Woman is the moral standard bearer, spiritual leader, of society and Christianity would benefit greatly by elevating women to a equal status with men. To repair the lowly estate that Paul initially, and Christianity subsequently, unfortunately placed women in.

    …Woman, however, has always been the moral standard-bearer and the spiritual leader of mankind.… [Paper 84:6.4, page 938:8]

    We are informed Paul belonged to a cult which renounced sexual relations with women and as a result of his own self-denial his personal views became attached to Christian doctrine. We are aware of the sad legacy that has resulted from this the male dominated “celibate” clergy with little appreciation of the importance of marriage and consequent family life.

    It was only natural that the cult of renunciation and humiliation should have paid attention to sexual gratification. The continence cult originated as a ritual among soldiers prior to engaging in battle; in later days it became the practice of “saints.” This cult tolerated marriage only as an evil lesser than fornication. Many of the world’s great religions have been adversely influenced by this ancient cult, but none more markedly than Christianity. The Apostle Paul was a devotee of this cult, and his personal views are reflected in the teachings which he fastened onto Christian theology: “It is good for a man not to touch a woman.” “I would that all men were even as I myself.” “I say, therefore, to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them to abide even as I.” Paul well knew that such teachings were not a part of Jesus’ gospel, and his acknowledgment of this is illustrated by his statement, “I speak this by permission and not by commandment.” But this cult led Paul to look down upon women. And the pity of it all is that his personal opinions have long influenced the teachings of a great world religion. If the advice of the tentmaker-teacher were to be literally and universally obeyed, then would the human race come to a sudden and inglorious end. Furthermore, the involvement of a religion with the ancient continence cult leads directly to a war against marriage and the home, society’s veritable foundation and the basic institution of human progress. And it is not to be wondered at that all such beliefs fostered the formation of celibate priesthoods in the many religions of various peoples.[Paper89:3.6, page 977:1]

    I smile when I think of Paul and read about the compensation for deficiencies experienced in a mortal life on the first mansion world. Was Paul a person of low sex drive or was he simply more comfortable in the company of men?

    Biological deficiencies were largely made up on the first mansion world. There defects in planetary experiences pertaining to sex life, family association, and parental function were either corrected or were projected for future rectification among the Material Son families on Jerusem. [Paper 47:4.7, page 535.3]

    Paul , schmaul.  Look at poor Abner – what “racial” trait nipped that in the bud? Do we not have a new grave danger with the compromises being made to get the red man of the Americas into the fold by appealing to their “blood cults”?

    I am all for the EASIEST “markedly unfit” aspect being relegated to the dust bin of unreal history – the whole “atonement” thing.  Symbolically and artistically it is just a powerful VISUAL – taking Jesus down off the cross, ourselves, because that is NOT where he resides….Mormon temples do not display that visual, however, I am not clear on why they chose not to hang a crucified Jesus over their altar…?

    Basically, we continue to have re-inventions that are just as bad of an influence as was Paul and his issues with SPIRITUAL equality between man and woman.  Many of modern women, worldwide, embrace the “material girl” philosophy and are not even remotely interested in being the spiritual leader because it is impossible to take on Paul, schmaul, and everyone else on that religion of authority boat in this era of extremism – the MONO issue, the partial and premeditated twist of truth – texting you on your gizmo.

    Imagine the avalanche of snark if you take on this cult: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ralph-nader/why-the-future-doesnt-nee_b_8021740.html

    Yup – easiest one is atonement – only residual savagery neither the spiritual or the material is going to miss as a philosophy for living.

  13. Sabinatu wrote:  wrote………..Yup – easiest one is atonement.
    I gather by that you mean it’s the most obvious error which can be corrected by re-statement of the essential teachings of Jesus. Salvation is a fact of sonship, no sacrifice needed……..only acceptance of this pre-existent status….fact of existence as a sentient being…….required to experience the surety of salvation.
    The light of truth is the best antiseptic.
    As to your other item of reference from the Huffington Post on the consequences of industrial automation to society, that is a matter of adaptation to the inevitable technological inventiveness of these times. Modern society must apply ethics to the task of transition, consequent to the advent of labour saving devices to replace the menial (soul destroying) work of the unskilled.
    The whitegoods industry, agitation of the washing machine, has liberated women more significantly than one hundred years of social agitation.

    Science, not religion, really emancipated woman; it was the modern factory which largely set her free from the confines of the home. Man’s physical abilities became no longer a vital essential in the new maintenance mechanism; science so changed the conditions of living that man power was no longer so superior to woman power. [Paper84:5.7, page 937:4]

    Progressive civilization eventually puts an end to all forms of bondage that act as an inhibitor to the manifestation of the fullness of human potential. Industry has enabled women to be valued as valid contributors to the social economy, their equality with men is yet to be fully integrated spiritually as well as factually.

    These changes have tended toward woman’s liberation from domestic slavery and have brought about such a modification of her status that she now enjoys a degree of personal liberty and sex determination that practically equals man’s. Once a woman’s value consisted in her food-producing ability, but invention and wealth have enabled her to create a new world in which to function — spheres of grace and charm. Thus has industry won its unconscious and unintended fight for woman’s social and economic emancipation. And again has evolution succeeded in doing what even revelation failed to accomplish. [Paper84:5.8, page 937:5]

    Finding a balance takes time and it is especially challenging in times of accelerated change as we are now experiencing when material values are transitioning to spiritual ones. Women have been significant beneficiaries of the advent of the material comfort era.

    The reaction of enlightened peoples from the inequitable mores governing woman’s place in society has indeed been pendulumlike in its extremeness. Among industrialized races she has received almost all rights and enjoys exemption from many obligations, such as military service. Every easement of the struggle for existence has redounded to the liberation of woman, and she has directly benefited from every advance toward monogamy. The weaker always makes disproportionate gains in every adjustment of the mores in the progressive evolution of society. [Paper84:5.9, page 937:6]

    We do well to safeguard the greatest of human evolutionary achievements……the home.

    I lived and worked in Singapore in the early 80s, the government was concerned that female university graduates were putting off marriage and consequent family life, till after they had established a career. This was a worrying trend because it resulted in the educated demographic in Singapore having fewer children and having them later, Not good for future national prosperity. Meanwhile, the less educated women continued to have children when young and have many of them. Another very significant gender behaviour differentiation was confirmed. While an educated man will willingly marry an uneducated woman, an educated woman will not marry an uneducated man. The selection of the suitability of the prospective father of her children is uppermost in women. Knowing that the power of the destiny of the next generation resides with choices made by women, women increasingly are being more discerning. There is compelling evidence in the USA that women in black communities are turning away from the men in their neighbourhoods who are wasting their lives with indulgence in drugs, crime and idleness. Women have won dignity, independence, equality, education, this presents a wonderful opportunity for women to rise to enhance the society which has enabled them to achieve expression of their unique spiritual potential as the moral standard bearers of society.

    In the ideals of pair marriage, woman has finally won recognition, dignity, independence, equality, and education; but will she prove worthy of all this new and unprecedented accomplishment? Will modern woman respond to this great achievement of social liberation with idleness, indifference, barrenness, and infidelity? Today, in the twentieth century, woman is undergoing the crucial test of her long world existence! [Paper84:5.10, page 937:7]

    Women are equal partners with man in race reproduction, choice of life partner is vital in this ongoing important task, women are pivotal in the course of human destiny. Yes, that includes the progress of Christianity, for human progress is fundamentally based on spiritual realities.

    Woman is man’s equal partner in race reproduction, hence just as important in the unfolding of racial evolution; therefore has evolution increasingly worked toward the realization of women’s rights. [Paper84:5.11, page 938:1]

    Jesus made very clear the importance of equality of man and woman. That man has no rightful authority over woman.

    …Jesus said: “My brother, always remember that man has no rightful authority over woman unless the woman has willingly and voluntarily given him such authority. Your wife has engaged to go through life with you, to help you fight its battles, and to assume the far greater share of the burden of bearing and rearing your children; and in return for this special service it is only fair that she receive from you that special protection which man can give to woman as the partner who must carry, bear, and nurture the children. The loving care and consideration which a man is willing to bestow upon his wife and their children are the measure of that man’s attainment of the higher levels of creative and spiritual self-consciousness. “Do you not know that men and women are partners with God in that they co-operate to create beings who grow up to possess themselves of the potential of immortal souls? The Father in heaven treats the Spirit Mother of the children of the universe as one equal to himself. It is Godlike to share your life and all that relates thereto on equal terms with the mother partner who so fully shares with you that divine experience of reproducing yourselves in the lives of your children. If you can only love your children as God loves you, you will love and cherish your wife as the Father in heaven honors and exalts the Infinite Spirit, the mother of all the spirit children of a vast universe.”  [Paper 133:2.2, page 1471:1] 

    The experience of parenthood is mandatory for evolving mortals, either in this initial animal-origin life or on the mansion worlds, with the families of the material sons and daughters, it is the means by which mortals can gain the creator viewpoint. It must be experienced to be known. If you can only love your children as God loves you, you will love and cherish your wife as the Father in heaven honors and exalts the Infinite Spirit.

    By recognizing the spirit of equality in deity relationships, Christianity, can make a great positive step in re-inventing itself by accepting fully, this one crucial factual truth of gender equality.

  14. @Vern, in comparison and contrast with others, this section makes note that the only contribution that Christianity made in regards to women was by imposing more stringent sex obligations on the MEN.  The safety of the home hearth is more in secular hands globally.

    Yes, Jesus made it 1000000% clear that man and woman are SPIRITUAL EQUALS.  So I think that a “church” of spiritually equal men and women who want to be about the RELIGION of Jesus needs to re-invent itself, easily, by getting rid of the need for “faith” in the atonement doctrine.

    5. Woman Under the Developing Mores

    84:5.1 (936.5) In self-perpetuation woman is man’s equal, but in the partnership of self-maintenance she labors at a decided disadvantage, and this handicap of enforced maternity can only be compensated by the enlightened mores of advancing civilization and by man’s increasing sense of acquired fairness.

    84:5.2 (936.6) As society evolved, the sex standards rose higher among women because they suffered more from the consequences of the transgression of the sex mores. Man’s sex standards are only tardily improving as a result of the sheer sense of that fairness which civilization demands. Nature knows nothing of fairness — makes woman alone suffer the pangs of childbirth.

    84:5.3 (936.7) The modern idea of sex equality is beautiful and worthy of an expanding civilization, but it is not found in nature. When might is right, man lords it over woman; when more justice, peace, and fairness prevail, she gradually emerges from slavery and obscurity. Woman’s social position has generally varied inversely with the degree of militarism in any nation or age.

    84:5.4 (937.1) But man did not consciously nor intentionally seize woman’s rights and then gradually and grudgingly give them back to her; all this was an unconscious and unplanned episode of social evolution. When the time really came for woman to enjoy added rights, she got them, and all quite regardless of man’s conscious attitude. Slowly but surely the mores change so as to provide for those social adjustments which are a part of the persistent evolution of civilization. The advancing mores slowly provided increasingly better treatment for females; those tribes which persisted in cruelty to them did not survive.

    84:5.5 (937.2) The Adamites and Nodites accorded women increased recognition, and those groups which were influenced by the migrating Andites have tended to be influenced by the Edenic teachings regarding women’s place in society.

    84:5.6 (937.3) The early Chinese and the Greeks treated women better than did most surrounding peoples. But the Hebrews were exceedingly distrustful of them. In the Occident woman has had a difficult climb under the Pauline doctrines which became attached to Christianity, although Christianity did advance the mores by imposing more stringent sex obligations upon man. Woman’s estate is little short of hopeless under the peculiar degradation which attaches to her in Mohammedanism, and she fares even worse under the teachings of several other Oriental religions.

    84:5.7 (937.4) Science, not religion, really emancipated woman; it was the modern factory which largely set her free from the confines of the home. Man’s physical abilities became no longer a vital essential in the new maintenance mechanism; science so changed the conditions of living that man power was no longer so superior to woman power.

    84:5.8 (937.5) These changes have tended toward woman’s liberation from domestic slavery and have brought about such a modification of her status that she now enjoys a degree of personal liberty and sex determination that practically equals man’s. Once a woman’s value consisted in her food-producing ability, but invention and wealth have enabled her to create a new world in which to function — spheres of grace and charm. Thus has industry won its unconscious and unintended fight for woman’s social and economic emancipation. And again has evolution succeeded in doing what even revelation failed to accomplish.

    84:5.9 (937.6) The reaction of enlightened peoples from the inequitable mores governing woman’s place in society has indeed been pendulumlike in its extremeness. Among industrialized races she has received almost all rights and enjoys exemption from many obligations, such as military service. Every easement of the struggle for existence has redounded to the liberation of woman, and she has directly benefited from every advance toward monogamy. The weaker always makes disproportionate gains in every adjustment of the mores in the progressive evolution of society.

    84:5.10 (937.7) In the ideals of pair marriage, woman has finally won recognition, dignity, independence, equality, and education; but will she prove worthy of all this new and unprecedented accomplishment? Will modern woman respond to this great achievement of social liberation with idleness, indifference, barrenness, and infidelity? Today, in the twentieth century, woman is undergoing the crucial test of her long world existence!

    84:5.11 (938.1) Woman is man’s equal partner in race reproduction, hence just as important in the unfolding of racial evolution; therefore has evolution increasingly worked toward the realization of women’s rights. But women’s rights are by no means men’s rights. Woman cannot thrive on man’s rights any more than man can prosper on woman’s rights.

    84:5.12 (938.2) Each sex has its own distinctive sphere of existence, together with its own rights within that sphere. If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man’s rights, then, sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men.

    84:5.13 (938.3) Civilization never can obliterate the behavior gulf between the sexes. From age to age the mores change, but instinct never. Innate maternal affection will never permit emancipated woman to become man’s serious rival in industry. Forever each sex will remain supreme in its own domain, domains determined by biologic differentiation and by mental dissimilarity.

    84:5.14 (938.4) Each sex will always have its own special sphere, albeit they will ever and anon overlap. Only socially will men and women compete on equal terms.

  15. 84:5.12 (938.2) Each sex has its own distinctive sphere of existence, together with its own rights within that sphere. If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man’s rights, then, sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men.

    also from same section in Paper 84 – “Woman’s social position has generally varied inversely with the degree of militarism in any nation or age.”

    I really do not see any evidence that woman is starting out in the 21st Century in any progressive “moral standard bearer” direction at all because of the current saturation of “militarism” as the governing IDEOLOGY.  The majority of women want the Kardashian lifestyle as a spiritual ideal of “grace and charm”, others found a “specialized” role in government like this story – “….In late April, a 60-page report entitled ‘All the President’s Psychologists’ pointed to Susan Brandon as the White House architect behind the policies regulating the legality of an interrogator’s actions – something that goes against the APA’s own rulebook, which prohibits psychologists from making such judgments…..” and the massive takeover of the education system by women who are teaching only what a “personhood” corporation wants the kids to know – oh, and the women in “high” finance who made that education available only as a debt instrument, the pay to play game….

    The “Christian” women , ONE nun and ONE mother, who were gaining many followers as anti-war LEADERS were cynically picked out of the media-feed Patriot Act ethers to serve as comedy fodder for the Jon Stewart Show…

    Seriously, it is inexplicable how much damage has been made to women’s ability to be the moral standard bearer since every institution that protected women’s rights are completely devoted to a 21st century militarism stood up and protected by “policies” born out of the bowels of Nihilism, Hedonism and Anarchy – the godless takeover of 20th century’s godless humanitarianism.

    Just an opinion, I could be seeing it all wrong, right…?  LOL

    So let me test my prejudices – will rent a limo today, collect as many “outdoor people” off the street as I can find in half the city and drop them off at the powerful female’s fashionable animal shelters as “homeless” animals that deserve sympathy and empathy as much as any other animal….gee, would I get bundled up, arrested and sent to the psyche ward for 24 hour observation if I tried such a “love thy neighbor” move without a permit even though the technicality is that the outdoor people are no one’s neighbor….

  16. Sabinatu wrote:  Just an opinion, I could be seeing it all wrong, right…?
    The revelation of truth is a positive force for good in the world, Jesus urges us to be informed, not blind to imperfection but to seek the higher that the lower is elevated thereby. The positive spirit of love and friendship has great drawing power.
    There are no problems only solutions. To a mountain climber a steep rise is a welcome adventure, met with enthusiasm.
  17. @Bradly – hmmmm. they are losing their popularity as “moral standard bearers”, so glory be, progress among 21st century women!

     

    http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/12/kardashian-reality-tv-show-on-a-downward-spiral-lost-1-million-viewers/

     

    I hope your PERSONAL attack post is deleted, btw.

  18. Sabinatu wrote:  …popularity as “moral standard bearers”
    Experience teaches that popularity is a fickle arbiter of what is really happening.
    With good reason we are cautioned that slavery to public opinion is one of the dangers of democracy “…Slavery to public opinion; the majority is not always right.”

    Public opinion, common opinion, has always delayed society; nevertheless, it is valuable, for, while retarding social evolution, it does preserve civilization.… [Paper 71:2.7, page 802:1]

    The measure of the advance of society is directly determined by the degree to which public opinion can control personal behavior and state regulation through nonviolent expression.… [Paper 71:2.8, page 802:2]

    I maintain that the joy of life embraces having fun as well as achieving the socially progressive task of preserving family life and consolidating the “home.”

    The home is basically a sociologic institution. Marriage grew out of co-operation in self-maintenance and partnership in self-perpetuation, the element of self-gratification being largely incidental. Nevertheless, the home does embrace all three of the essential functions of human existence, while life propagation makes it the fundamental human institution, and sex sets it off from all other social activities. [Paper 84:0.3, page 931:3]

    …The home is the natural social arena wherein the ethics of blood brotherhood may be grasped by the growing children. The family is the fundamental unit of fraternity in which parents and children learn those lessons of patience, altruism, tolerance, and forbearance which are so essential to the realization of brotherhood among all men.  [Paper 84:7.28, page 941:9]

    The Urantia Book is even so bold as to say that Christianity, seeped in the personal anti-women views of Paul, as it is, is fundamentally destructive of the home. Christianity has failed to recognize the equality of the sexes and has made the great error of attempting to attribute greater value to males in an effort to maintain privilege and control…….power over others……women especially. By establishing a celibate priesthood the Church has attempted to put itself above the common people as if by denying themselves normal family life they were somehow elevated “more saintly” than the average man and woman…………how conceited and prideful. Between God and man there are no intermediaries……….Jesus’ pronouncement,“the kingdom is within you” is confirmation of that. Christianity must face up to itself and change if it is to have any social relevance. The recent exposure of sexual abuse of children by priests has destroyed any moral credibility it may previously have had. The fact the church has actively worked to suppress the truth of the pedophile activities becoming known, is even more damning.

    It was only natural that the cult of renunciation and humiliation should have paid attention to sexual gratification. The continence cult originated as a ritual among soldiers prior to engaging in battle; in later days it became the practice of “saints.” This cult tolerated marriage only as an evil lesser than fornication. Many of the world’s great religions have been adversely influenced by this ancient cult, but none more markedly than Christianity. The Apostle Paul was a devotee of this cult, and his personal views are reflected in the teachings which he fastened onto Christian theology: “It is good for a man not to touch a woman.” “I would that all men were even as I myself.” “I say, therefore, to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them to abide even as I.” Paul well knew that such teachings were not a part of Jesus’ gospel, and his acknowledgment of this is illustrated by his statement, “I speak this by permission and not by commandment.” But this cult led Paul to look down upon women. And the pity of it all is that his personal opinions have long influenced the teachings of a great world religion. If the advice of the tentmaker-teacher were to be literally and universally obeyed, then would the human race come to a sudden and inglorious end. Furthermore, the involvement of a religion with the ancient continence cult leads directly to a war against marriage and the home, society’s veritable foundation and the basic institution of human progress. And it is not to be wondered at that all such beliefs fostered the formation of celibate priesthoods in the many religions of various peoples. [Paper 89:3.6, page 977:1]

    The home is the basic institution of human progress, what credibility does an institution comprised bunch of misogynist, arrogant, bachelors, have in determining normal personal experiences of home life, which they attempt to “virtuously” flout, having denied themselves?  The celibate priesthood is a nonsense and should be abandoned as Martin Luther so forcefully made clear in 1513 at the time of the protestant reformation. Job half done should now be completed.

     

    Let man enjoy himself; let the human race find pleasure in a thousand and one ways; let evolutionary mankind explore all forms of legitimate self-gratification, the fruits of the long upward biologic struggle. Man has well earned some of his present-day joys and pleasures. But look you well to the goal of destiny! Pleasures are indeed suicidal if they succeed in destroying property, which has become the institution of self-maintenance; and self-gratifications have indeed cost a fatal price if they bring about the collapse of marriage, the decadence of family life, and the destruction of the home — man’s supreme evolutionary acquirement and civilization’s only hope of survival.[Paper 84:8.6, page 943:1]

    In the section on “Seraphic Planetary Government” we are in formed of a whole group of seraphim devoted to strengthening the home that it indeed guarantees civilization’s survival.

    The home seraphim. Urantia now enjoys the services of the fifth group of angelic ministers dedicated to the preservation and advancement of the home, the basic institution of human civilization.  [Paper 114:6.13, page 1256:3]

    In natural surroundings and the home is where a child usually has initial worshipful experiences.

    …The child should be introduced to worship in nature’s outdoors and later accompany his parents to public houses of religious assembly which are at least as materially attractive and artistically beautiful as the home in which he is daily domiciled. [Paper 167:6.6, page 1840:5]

    The home life sets the pattern for the remaining course of a person’s life. This is extremely important and should be valued as such.

    For more than an hour Jesus and John continued this discussion of home life. The Master went on to explain to John how a child is wholly dependent on his parents and the associated home life for all his early concepts of everything intellectual, social, moral, and even spiritual since the family represents to the young child all that he can first know of either human or divine relationships. The child must derive his first impressions of the universe from the mother’s care; he is wholly dependent on the earthly father for his first ideas of the heavenly Father. The child’s subsequent life is made happy or unhappy, easy or difficult, in accordance with his early mental and emotional life, conditioned by these social and spiritual relationships of the home. A human being’s entire afterlife is enormously influenced by what happens during the first few years of existence. [Paper 177:2.5, page 1922:3]

    Here is the admonition appropriate to the times in which we live. Home life must be loving and wise, they must be good places in which to nurture boys and girls. Acceptance of the teaching of the fatherhood of  God and subsequent brotherhood of man will result in the immediate improvement of home life. Genuine religion always glorifies the home.

    It is our sincere belief that the gospel of Jesus’ teaching, founded as it is on the father-child relationship, can hardly enjoy a world-wide acceptance until such a time as the home life of the modern civilized peoples embraces more of love and more of wisdom. Notwithstanding that parents of the twentieth century possess great knowledge and increased truth for improving the home and ennobling the home life, it remains a fact that very few modern homes are such good places in which to nurture boys and girls as Jesus’ home in Galilee and John Mark’shome in Judea, albeit the acceptance of Jesus’ gospel will result in the immediate improvement of home life. The love life of a wise home and the loyal devotion of true religion exert a profound reciprocal influence upon each other. Such a home life enhances religion, and genuine religion always glorifies the home. [Paper 177:2.6, page 1922:4]

    Secular society has indeed freed itself from the restriction of traditional religious observances but there remains the responsibility of parents to administer love with wisdom and intelligent discipline. The concept of God as a loving father should be well founded on the positive experience gained from each earthly father. The word “father” needs to be enshrined with worthy concepts of love and wisdom in the minds and hearts of all growing children.

    It is true that many of the objectionable stunting influences and other cramping features of these olden Jewish homes have been virtually eliminated from many of the better-regulated modern homes. There is, indeed, more spontaneous freedom and far more personal liberty, but this liberty is not restrained by love, motivated by loyalty, nor directed by the intelligent discipline of wisdom. As long as we teach the child to pray, “Our Father who is in heaven,” a tremendous responsibility rests upon all earthly fathers so to live and order their homes that the word father becomes worthily enshrined in the minds and hearts of all growing children. [Paper 177:2.7, page 1923:1]

    The word “father” needs to be enshrined with worthy concepts of love and wisdom in the minds and hearts of all growing children.

    By elevating the value of the father idea will Christianity make positive steps to re-invent itself.

    Thanks Sab, for initiating in my mind, this discourse on the value of home life in relation to this topic thread.

     

  19. @Vern, you asked, “what credibility does an institution comprised bunch of misogynist, arrogant, bachelors, have in determining normal personal experiences of home life, which they attempt to “virtuously” flout, having denied themselves?”

    Answer, “Uh, they’re gay, living in gorgeous real estate surrounded by priceless art and with personal same sex relationships – so no one has ever bought that they are holy holy holy.  Look, I was on the internet early enough when the whole back door was open, so I know that the Catholic Church was infiltrated by people meant to destroy it from within.  USA is HEDONISTIC – look at Jared, the Subway Sandwich spokesman being recently arrested for pedophilia – is Subway Sandwiches going to be the next threat to the “home”?

    Plenty of ways to re-invent – I’m sticking with shedding the atonement doctrine. It’s a purely spiritual problem in understanding who God is.  I would prefer the current “church” and “state”, for that matter, to focus on what their sphere of work SHOULD be, every time they meddle in “home”, it’s with some “ism” in hand that is worse that the “ism” before…no one wants either team in the home because they continue to prove themselves unworthy of trust and absurdly incompetent to judge, imho.

    Are you, in any way, not free to make your home hearth just as you want it to be, Vern?

  20. I thought I’d make a comment on this subject as I was raised in the church. Yes, to a point, in the more conservative denominations, woman is not equal with man. In the denominations that consider themselves moderate to liberal, that is not the case. I myself attend a United Methodist church that has a woman pastor… even though, for the most part, it appears that the members are conservative to moderate in their views. The pastor herself is very conservative however. (and surprisingly, she has both heard of and read TUB. She is not a believer in it though.)

    As for the denominations as a whole, it is, for the most part, the older generation that is ultra conservative. Yes, the younger generation is still conservative, to a point, but, for the most part, they are at least willing to listen to new ideas.

    Think of the issue of slavery as an example. After the civil war, the slave owners were still alive. They still taught their values to the next generation. The next generation however, while still seeing the black man as an inferior, didn’t believe that they should be enslaved as their fathers did. Skip forward a few generations and you have the civil rights movement.

    My point is that change takes time and might require the previous generation to simply die off before real progress can be made. Yes, there will be a few throwbacks to the previous values. Example, the KKK. But, for the most part, we’ve moved beyond that now.

    Change, real change, true change, takes something that we as humans don’t have as much as we need of: two things to see it to its end: patience and time. To much change to fast can be distructive.

    As an example, look at the ultra liberals. An example of change to fast is the Supreme Courts’ decision regarding homosexuality. The ultra liberals pushed for it, and got it. Now. However, if they would have had the patience to wait until the generation that didn’t agree with homosexuality for various reasons (either religious or moral) died off, their views would have been excepted as a matter of natural evalution. (as they are in the younger generation)

    As it stands now however, there may be backlash as a result of impatience. To much change to soon.

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