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"Resume their lives just where they left off when overtaken by death"

254 posts · 11 participants · started Aug 19, 2017, 7:09 PM

Brooklyn_bornParticipant
Sep 16, 2017, 7:54 PM
No one is telling you to abandon your belief, Bonita and I don’t think my ideas are superior. Also, I don’t think you presented any revelation that contradicts my ideas. We all have opinions and that is EXACTLY what we are sharing on this board. I definitely agree with you on that fact!

Bonita wrote:

Brooklyn_born wrote:

Bonita, you argued that even in rebellion, the archrebels remain in service to Michael in his domain. You used a spurious argument that being a celestial son of Michael qualifies as serving in his domain. The revelation I posted contradicts your position.

BB, I’m not arguing. I’m not even debating. I am stating my opinions, ideas and thoughts on the matter, and I have no wish to convince you or anyone else as to their rightness or wrongness. Personally I cannot find anything you’ve written so far that will change my opinions, ideas and thoughts, nor have you provided anything yet from TUB that contradicts them. However, you continue to argue, you continue to attempt to coerce me to change my mind. Why is that? Isn’t it permissible for me to have my opinions? I don’t have to abandon my position just because you don’t like it or don’t agree with it. But that is what it looks like you’re trying to do from my perspective. It looks like you want to dominate me and my ideas with your own, which you seem to think are superior. At least it seems that way to me, which I view as hostile and threatening. So please stop.

BB
BonitaParticipant
Sep 16, 2017, 8:40 PM

Brooklyn_born wrote:

No one is telling you to abandon your belief, Bonita and I don’t think my ideas are superior.

Then stop harassing me.
Brooklyn_bornParticipant
Sep 16, 2017, 8:46 PM
I am harassing in a thread I authored. Bonita, go and complain to the admins, then. This is silly.

Bonita wrote:

Brooklyn_born wrote:

No one is telling you to abandon your belief, Bonita and I don’t think my ideas are superior.

Then stop harassing me.

BB
AnonymousInactive
Sep 16, 2017, 9:08 PM

Bonita wrote:

This is my position: Lucifer is both servile to, and in the service of, Michael. If he resumes loyalty relations and accepts rehab, he can be given his duties back. But whether or not he is reinstated to his assigned duties, for which he was created, does not alter the fact that as long as he exists he is in service to and of Michael.

BB, I must agree with Bonita’s first statement above where by her using “servile to” indicates the following: “when postpositive, followed by to – submitting or obedient”, then being “in the service of,” would indicate “an act of helpful activity; help; aid”. Being that Michael, would not be able to pursue, in his position, that which Lucifer was able to do, would indicate that Lucifer’s actions were in service to Michael’s wishes, like being under-cover or in this case functioning as intelligence, where Michael waited and observed.

Although, I disagree with her interpretation or implication of Michael using the “personality circuit”, to be able to know what was or is in Lucifer’s mind, where it is generally used to commune with Paradise Sons, yet it would stand to reason that Michael knew what was going on with Lucifer, because he was in service to Michael, not to mention that the System Circuits had been disrupted at the time of the Rebellion, although, as Bradly mentioned that “it was known that not all was well in Lucifer’s mind”, was prior to that period, and passed on as general conjecture, without specifics.
BonitaParticipant
Sep 16, 2017, 9:15 PM

Brooklyn_born wrote:

I am harassing in a thread I authored. Bonita, go and complain to the admins, then. This is silly.

So you think harassment is silly? I don’t. But I don’t go crying to administration every time someone hassles me. I’m not like that. I’m a grown up. I deal with my own problems. The issue is between you and me and no one else. If you don’t want me to contribute to your thread then I think there’s a problem. This is an open forum. There are no segregated or invitation-only study groups on this forum, although that would be a nice addition. It might be your thread, but it is not your forum. You can lead discussion on your thread, but you cannot constrain or pressure anyone with your opinion. And if you do, it’s called harassment, which is what you did when you said this:

Brooklyn_born wrote:Do you see, Bonita? “REINSTATEMENT IN SOME FORM OF UNIVERSE SERVICE” Get it, now?
BonitaParticipant
Sep 16, 2017, 9:21 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

Although, I disagree with her interpretation or implication of Michael using the “personality circuit”, to be able to know what was or is in Lucifer’s mind, . . .

, I never said that. The quote in question states that Michael uses the spirit-gravity circuit (spiritual drawing power). The personality circuit is utilized by the Universal Father, not the universe father. Please correct your statement above because it is wrong. Here’s the quote again for your convenience.

20:1.13The Creator Sons seem to possess a spiritual endowment centering in their persons, which they control and which they can bestow, as did your own Creator Son when he poured out his spirit upon all mortal flesh on Urantia. Each Creator Son is endowed with this spiritual drawing power in his own realm; he is personally conscious of every act and emotion of every descending Son of God serving in his domain. Here is a divine reflection, a local universe duplication, of that absolute spiritual drawing power of the Eternal Son which enables him to reach out to make and maintain contact with all his Paradise Sons, no matter where they may be in all the universe of universes.
AnonymousInactive
Sep 16, 2017, 9:47 PM

Bonita wrote:

It might be your thread, but it is not your forum. You can lead discussion on your thread, but you cannot constrain or pressure anyone with your opinion. And if you do, it’s called harassment, which is what you did when you said this:

Brooklyn_born wrote: Do you see, Bonita? “REINSTATEMENT IN SOME FORM OF UNIVERSE SERVICE” Get it, now?

Yes it would seem that by BB’s use of all caps, he was yelling but who else uses all caps to make a point?

Being that the post went like this:

53:9.1 Early in the days of the Lucifer rebellion, salvation was offered all rebels by Michael. To all who would show proof of sincere repentance, he offered, upon his attainment of complete universe sovereignty, forgiveness and reinstatement in some form of universe service. None of the leaders accepted this merciful proffer. But thousands of the angels and the lower orders of celestial beings, including hundreds of the Material Sons and Daughters, accepted the mercy proclaimed by the Panoptians and were given rehabilitation at the time of Jesus’ resurrection nineteen hundred years ago…Do you see, Bonita? “REINSTATEMENT IN SOME FORM OF UNIVERSE SERVICE” Get it, now?

It would also indicate that “FORGIVENESS” was also offered, but then all of this was conditional “upon his [Michaels] attainment of complete universe sovereignty”.

How does attempting to make a point become “harassment”? If that were the case I’m sure there are others who would fall under this terminology, and or definition?
AnonymousInactive
Sep 16, 2017, 9:57 PM

Bonita wrote:

The quote in question states that Michael uses the spirit-gravity circuit (spiritual drawing power).

If this is the case, and with the UB quote you posted, siting (spiritual drawing power), does not define this as being “spirit-gravity circuit”. Where the “spirit-gravity circuit” is associated to the “Eternal Son”, the “Second Source and Center on Paradise.”

Even with the following:

(366.4) 33:1.3 Our Creator Son exerts the same spiritual drawing power, spirit gravity, from the headquarters of the local universe that the Eternal Son of Paradise would exert if he were personally present on Salvington, and more; this Universe Son is also the personification of the Universal Father to the universe of Nebadon. Creator Sons are personality centers for the spiritual forces of the Paradise Father-Son. Creator Sons are the final power-personality focalizations of the mighty time-space attributes of God the Sevenfold.

Where in this case it would not necessarily apply to Lucifer? Then if I’m not mistaken it is in reference to “the Spirit of Truth” which would be after the fact?
BonitaParticipant
Sep 17, 2017, 12:07 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

Then if I’m not mistaken it is in reference to “the Spirit of Truth” which would be after the fact?

But you are mistaken. The spirit-gravity circuit is not the same as the Spirit of Truth. And, since you haven’t corrected your mistake in your previous post, I’ll repeat, the spirit-gravity circuit is also not the same as the personality circuit. If you’re interested in an essay on these matters let me know, otherwise I won’t waste my time.
AnonymousInactive
Sep 18, 2017, 6:07 PM

Bonita wrote:

MidiChlorian wrote: Although, I disagree with her interpretation or implication of Michael using the “personality circuit”, to be able to know what was or is in Lucifer’s mind, . . .

The personality circuit is utilized by the Universal Father, not the universe father. Please correct your statement above because it is wrong. Here’s the quote again for your convenience.

My reference to “personality circuit”, above was in your post number #27821, where in your statement and mixing the term God with the Universal Father, and indicating the reference to Lucifer personality, implied that Michael also could utilize this type of circuit, where it is my understanding that you perceive Michael as God. Nevertheless, the full quote which you referenced, in that previously you used a portion only, states “Creator Sons seem to possess a spiritual endowment”, but does not state a finite possession.

Bonita wrote:

MidiChlorian wrote: Then if I’m not mistaken it is in reference to “the Spirit of Truth” which would be after the fact?

But you are mistaken. The spirit-gravity circuit is not the same as the Spirit of Truth. And, since you haven’t corrected your mistake in your previous post, I’ll repeat, the spirit-gravity circuit is also not the same as the personality circuit. If you’re interested in an essay on these matters let me know, otherwise I won’t waste my time.

My reference to “the Spirit of Truth” above was in reference to the quote (33:1.3) also in question because of the inclusion of “spiritual drawing power, spirit gravity,” where it states (20:1.13) “which they can bestow, as did your own Creator Son when he poured out his spirit upon all mortal flesh on Urantia”, which occurred after the fact of resurrection, and return. Where as I mentioned above, the quote stated, “seem to”, not does, therefore it implies likened too.

I cannot make corrections to your opinions or implications as I read them or understand them. Also your indication where I am wrong and or mistaken, is based on your assumption of what I meant, not what I said, where if what I said was confusing then a question should have been in order, rather then a presentation of error? And, I’m not “interested in an essay on these matters” because my time is worth more to me then to waste your time, and my own. I’ve read portions of your essays that you have presented on this forum. Sorry. Also, as a point of order, this response is not intended as harassment, only a response to your preclusion of error.
BradlyParticipant
Sep 18, 2017, 7:05 PM

Bonita wrote:

MidiChlorian wrote:

Then if I’m not mistaken it is in reference to “the Spirit of Truth” which would be after the fact?

But you are mistaken. The spirit-gravity circuit is not the same as the Spirit of Truth. And, since you haven’t corrected your mistake in your previous post, I’ll repeat, the spirit-gravity circuit is also not the same as the personality circuit. If you’re interested in an essay on these matters let me know, otherwise I won’t waste my time.

It seems obvious enough Midi that you asked a question which was directly answered. You asked if “….I’m not mistaken…?” which was answered…”But you are mistaken.” And so you are. Your reference to 33:1.3 has nothing to do with the Son’s Spirit or Spirit of Truth (same thing) and so is a faulty reference in context to Bonita’s posts and points on the Son’s Drawing Power.

The Spirit of Truth is given material world by material world and is not bestowed generally or universally. Also, as I understand, this Spirit is exclusively for mortal ascenders (and not Lucifer, etc.) who retain the ministry of this gift even beyond the Local and Super Universe levels, once gifted. I wonder if mortals who survive to the Mansion Worlds gain this ministry upon awakening….or not until their world of origin receives this gift?

It is unfortunate you do not wish to improve your knowledge and understanding of the Papers….per Bonita’s generous offer. I would be thrilled to look forward to such a study. Perhaps we should, if we haven’t already, begin a topic on the Son’s Spirit?

Word search for “Spirit of Truth”:

https://urassoc.arko.nyc/search/?zoom_sort=2&zoom_query=%22spirit+of+truth%22&zoom_per_page=100&zoom_and=0&zoom_cat%5B%5D=-1

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Sep 18, 2017, 8:51 PM
It’s interesting that I have to defend myself. Isn’t defense necessary only when under assault. Am I under assault? Seems so.

Thanks Bradly for understanding my point, and thank you for engaging in non-combative discussion. There’s a lot to unpack in quote 20:1.13, which is the quote I’m talking about. I reproduced it below for everyone’s convenience.

20:1.13The Creator Sons seem to possess a spiritual endowment centering in their persons, which they control and which they can bestow, as did your own Creator Son when he poured out his spirit upon all mortal flesh on Urantia. Each Creator Son is endowed with this spiritual drawing power in his own realm; he is personally conscious of every act and emotion of every descending Son of God serving in his domain. Here is a divine reflection, a local universe duplication, of that absolute spiritual drawing power of the Eternal Son which enables him to reach out to make and maintain contact with all his Paradise Sons, no matter where they may be in all the universe of universes.

It’s a valid question to ask just what the spiritual endowment Creator Sons have which is centered in their persons. There are many quotes which explain that it is a subabsolute focalization of the spirit-gravity circuit. But before discussing that, I think it would be wise to remind everyone that the Spirit of Truth is more than the spiritual endowment of the Creator Son. The Spirit of Truth is really a dual Spirit in substance and a triune Spirit in function. The Spirit of Truth consists of both the spirit of the Universal Father and the spirit of the Creator Son. In function, the Spirit of Truth is always accompanied by the Holy Spirit (to abate the time-space issue). Consider the following quotes:

194:2.3 In a certain sense, this Spirit of Truth is the spirit of both the Universal Father and the Creator Son.

194:2.16 4. The spirit of the Universal Father and the Creator Son–the Spirit of Truth, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Son.

34:4.7 The Universe Mother Spirit acts as the universe focus and center of the Spirit of Truth as well as of her own personal influence, the Holy Spirit.

Spirit gravity is a type of pure spirit power. Spirit gravity is not a person or a personification. However, the Spirit of Truth IS a person, a personifcation of Michael, an actual spirit presence of his personality. A subabsolute focalization of spirit gravity is centered in the person of Michael; it is a force or power which draws spirit values and spiritualized persons to him. How does Michael use this power to know the emotions and actions of all his descending Sons? That is a mystery, I think. But I can say that it is seems doubtful that any of those Sons interact directly with the Spirit of Truth. They have no souls, which is where the Spirit of Truth sojourns. The Spirit of Truth is a teacher for faith-sons and ascending sons. I’m still looking for a reference indicating that the Spirit of Truth ministers to descending Sons . . . can’t seem to find one.

Anyway, there’s lots to be said about this, lots to study. I’m sure there’s a ton of things to learn, if one has mind to. So, if you want to start a new thread Bradly, I’m certainly open to the idea.
BradlyParticipant
Sep 18, 2017, 9:59 PM
Greetings Bonita…and all!!

I hadn’t thought of my post as a form of defending you at all….like you need such! I was merely pointing out the obvious – a direct question asked with a direct answer provided, followed by a claim that such a direct question was misunderstood and your answer not applicable. Confusing. Oh well…you can only lead a horse to water, as they say, the drinking is up to them.

So, regarding the Spirit of Truth and the topic of this thread….according to the text, the Spirit of Truth would be included for us when we “Resume their/our lives just where they/we left off….”. I asked a question which would be relevant to the topic….If a survivor hails from a world that is pre-Son’s Spirit gift, do they THEN acquire the soul ministry of the Son’s Spirit? Or would they only receive it once their own world does during the Mortal Epochs? I surmise the Son’s Spirit is immediately engaged with the soul of such mortal ascenders….but it is pure supposition. But I do know we keep the Spirit of Truth for all our adventure time in our time and space experience! The gift that keeps on giving.

To the drawing power issue….I think the UB teaches that the individual’s response to all the gravity circuits is greater or lesser depending on the spiritual “mass” of the individual….and that response mass or attraction-response might itself be an indicator of the mind/soul who is growing in experiential wisdom and love response and also those who are receding or diminishing in such response? Again, pure speculation but I’ll see if I can find the quotes which indicate forms of gravity-circuit-responsiveness….the “drawing power” of spirit, mind, and personality circuits.

The center(s) of these gravity circuits and their drawing power do not change…but only reality responds to these circuits I think. The more realitized a being is, the more responsive (and perhaps even reflective?) and the less realitized a being, the lesser the effect of the universal drawing powers (and perhaps less to reflect)? This is true relative to physical gravity I believe if such a pattern holds true for these other gravity circuits…I don’t know.

A topic on the Son’s Spirit and its transformative influence to the each and the all, and it’s co-gift of the flood of TA’s to a world and the unorthodox lack of normal sequencing of Urantia’s mortal epochs would make a wonderful study. I’ll start within a couple of days unless you or another beats me to it!

As always, thanks for the ever interesting and educational sharing you give us all here….quite a gift itself, that!

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Sep 18, 2017, 11:04 PM

Bradly wrote:

I hadn’t thought of my post as a form of defending you at all….like you need such!

Oh no, I was referring to claim that I need to defend myself. Defense is only necessary if you’re being attacked, which is what he is doing. He’s also attacking you, so I reported him. Now, moving on.

Bradly wrote:

I asked a question which would be relevant to the topic….If a survivor hails from a world that is pre-Son’s Spirit gift, do they THEN acquire the soul ministry of the Son’s Spirit?

I don’t think they mention it. But it seems logical that such a person would enjoy the same ministry everyone else has. Obviously such a person would have been, at minimum, in the seventh psychic circle, and that’s where the Spirit of Truth comes in.

Bradly wrote:

The center(s) of these gravity circuits and their drawing power do not change

The original center never changes, the absolute source stays absolute. But we are living in a subabsolute reality so the various gravity circuits (except personality), have “substations,” for lack of a better word. But that doesn’t mean they change, they are just routed through the local universe Creator. (Recall the quote comparing it to the human nervous system.) For spirit gravity at the local universe level it is the Creator Son. for, mind gravity it is the Creative Spirit, for physical gravity it’s local linear gravity.

7:1.5 The Son’s spiritual drawing power is inherent to a lesser degree in many Paradise orders of sonship. For there do exist within the absolute spirit-gravity circuit those local systems of spiritual attraction that function in the lesser units of creation. Such subabsolute focalizations of spirit gravity are a part of the divinity of the Creator personalities of time and space and are correlated with the emerging experiential overcontrol of the Supreme Being.

Sin and rebellion cannot affect the spirit gravity circuit. So Lucifer cannot stop Michael from utilizing this power to know his emotions and actions. Michael has complete control over it at the local universe level.

7:1.7 Like the material gravity of Paradise, the spiritual gravity of the Eternal Son is absolute. Sin and rebellion may interfere with the operation of local universe circuits, but nothing can suspend the spirit gravity of the Eternal Son. The Lucifer rebellion produced many changes in your system of inhabited worlds and on Urantia, but we do not observe that the resultant spiritual quarantine of your planet in the least affected the presence and function of either the omnipresent spirit of the Eternal Son or the associated spirit-gravity circuit.

Bradly wrote:

but only reality responds to these circuits I think.

Only qualitative reality responds to the spirit gravity circuit. Perhaps that’s how Michael knows what’s going on? I’m sure he must be conscious of qualitative reality as it waxes or wanes.

7:1.8 There is an unvarying response of the Son’s spirit to all spirit things, beings, and persons, and this response is always in accordance with the degree of actuality (the qualitative degree of reality) of all such spiritual values.

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