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Undying Hope

112 posts · 9 participants · started Oct 9, 2017, 2:36 PM

BonitaParticipant
Oct 22, 2017, 8:16 PM

Mara wrote:Over the years I’ve been interested in ALL the help we have to assist us in our mortal struggles. I never got around to making a list, but I’ll bet Bonita has a list. If you do, will you share it?

No, I’m sorry, I don’t have such a list. I think it would cover the contents of the entire book, no? There are basically four presence circuits: personality gravity; spirit gravity; mind gravity and cosmic gravity. Within each of those presence circuits there are additional ministries. But I’m not sure that’s what you’re talking about. Are you referring to the circuits (which are a force) or to the various personalities who minister? There is a list of circuits in Paper 15 section 9. Also this:

9:2.3-4 There are many untrammeled lines of spiritual force and sources of supermaterial power linking the people of Urantia directly with the Deities of Paradise. There exist the connection of the Thought Adjusters direct with the Universal Father, the widespread influence of the spiritual-gravity urge of the Eternal Son, and the spiritual presence of the Conjoint Creator. There is a difference in function between the spirit of the Son and the spirit of the Spirit. The Third Person in his spiritual ministry may function as mind plus spirit or as spirit alone.

In addition to these Paradise presences, Urantians benefit by the spiritual influences and activities of the local and the superuniverse, with their almost endless array of loving personalities who ever lead the true of purpose and the honest of heart upward and inward towards the ideals of divinity and the goal of supreme perfection

Mara wrote:What forces can we harness to combat our struggles during our life in the flesh?

By using the word force I’m guessing you mean a source of energy and the sovereignty of power? If that’s what you mean, I think the answer is soul powers chosen by the power of personality, all of which are accessed by prayer. The prayer of faith is a mighty force (91:6.3).

91:6.4 Prayer, even as a purely human practice, a dialogue with one’s alter ego, constitutes a technique of the most efficient approach to the realization of those reserve powers of human nature which are stored and conserved in the unconscious realms of the human mind. Prayer is a sound psychologic practice, aside from its religious implications and its spiritual significance. It is a fact of human experience that most persons, if sufficiently hard pressed, will pray in some way to some source of help.

100:4.3 But the great problem of religious living consists in the task of unifying the soul powers of the personality by the dominance of LOVE.

5:3.7 Sincere worship connotes the mobilization of all the powers of the human personality under the dominance of the evolving soul and subject to the divine directionization of the associated Thought Adjuster.
GeneParticipant
Oct 22, 2017, 9:07 PM
More hair splitting:

If I think about “undying hope” it can easily become an oxymoron

does undying connect with the eternal? Will the assumed undying hope die with our mortal self or survive to morontia?

Undying hope should therefore be connected with the eternal?? Of adjuster origin and destiny??

dying hope stays here.
AndréParticipant
Oct 23, 2017, 10:16 AM
Hi,

What forces can we harness to combat our struggles during our life in the flesh?

In #28154

… I answered the question in such a way because didn’t think “those spiritual forces” must be approach to master them.

Def. harnest
- To bring under control and direct the force of ….
- close association
- ability to work in harness with others
Do we harness these *forces*?

In my point of view … no need.

Those forces are diffuse from spirituals ministrie.

Leading, helping us , as you said to harness, bring under control the animal/human self … divinely bestowed freedom of choice. 13:4.5

… personnality is one of those forces

The personality is the unifier of these components of experiential individuality. 9:4.6

André
BonitaParticipant
Oct 23, 2017, 11:43 AM
Then there’s what Rodan said:

160:3.1 How best can I awaken these latent powers for good which lie dormant in your souls? One thing I am sure of: Emotional excitement is not the ideal spiritual stimulus. Excitement does not augment energy; it rather exhausts the powers of both mind and body. Whence then comes the energy to do these great things? Look to your Master. Even now he is out in the hills taking in power while we are here giving out energy. The secret of all this problem is wrapped up in spiritual communion, in worship. From the human standpoint it is a question of combined meditation and relaxation. Meditation makes the contact of mind with spirit; relaxation determines the capacity for spiritual receptivity. And this interchange of strength for weakness, courage for fear, the will of God for the mind of self, constitutes worship. At least, that is the way the philosopher views it.
BonitaParticipant
Oct 23, 2017, 11:56 AM

Mara wrote:

Do we harness these *forces*?

What do you mean by harness? Do you mean control them or make use of them? Obviously we don’t control anything but our own selves, that’s the power of free will. But making use of God’s will by our will, giving the power of our will to do his will, might be more like it. Using our free will power of personality to make God’s potentials actual is part of the power-personality synthesis of the Supreme.

Then there’s the image of staying connected to the vine. The life force is in the vine, but we don’t control it and it doesn’t control us. Yes, we latch on through the prayer of faith and we hold on to it with trust. The life force within the vine is what produces the fruit of spiritual living, but only if we allow it, if we will that his will be done. I think it’s more of a willingness than a harnessing, don’t you? But as Gene says, it might be just semantics.
MaraParticipant
Oct 23, 2017, 2:58 PM
Re: What forces can we harness, I like what you said about soul powers, Bonita:

Bonita wrote:

5:3.7 Sincere worship connotes the mobilization of all the powers of the human personality under the dominance of the evolving soul and subject to the divine directionization of the associated Thought Adjuster.

. . . and further,

[. . .] During life the mortal will, the personality power of decision-choice, is resident in the material mind circuits; as terrestrial mortal growth proceeds, this self, with its priceless powers of choice, becomes increasingly identified with the emerging morontia-soul entity. . . . (111:3.2)

. . . and what you said about freedom of choice, andré.

andré wrote:

Leading, helping us , as you said to harness, bring under control the animal/human self … divinely bestowed freedom of choice. 13:4.5

What about this interesting reference pointing to “the mightly forces” of moral power and spiritual energy?

156:5.10 Religion is the exclusively spiritual experience of the evolving immortal soul of the God-knowing man, but moral power and spiritual energy are mighty forces which may be utilized in dealing with difficult social situations and in solving intricate economic problems. These moral and spiritual endowments make all levels of human living richer and more meaningful.

What is spiritual energy?
MaraParticipant
Oct 23, 2017, 3:21 PM

Bonita wrote:

Mara wrote: Over the years I’ve been interested in ALL the help we have to assist us in our mortal struggles. I never got around to making a list, but I’ll bet Bonita has a list. If you do, will you share it?

No, I’m sorry, I don’t have such a list.

I decided to start out to compile one. Looks like it is going to be a lengthy one. Here is one I’d like to share:

9:2.3 There are many untrammeled lines of spiritual force and sources of supermaterial power linking the people of Urantia directly with the Deities of Paradise. There exist the connection of the Thought Adjusters direct with the Universal Father, the widespread influence of the spiritual-gravity urge of the Eternal Son, and the spiritual presence of the Conjoint Creator. There is a difference in function between the spirit of the Son and the spirit of the Spirit. The Third Person in his spiritual ministry may function as mind plus spirit or as spirit alone.
BonitaParticipant
Oct 23, 2017, 7:37 PM
Mara, I already shared quote 9:2.3 six panels back when answering your direct question to me. Here is my post again. ????

Bonita wrote:

Mara wrote:Over the years I’ve been interested in ALL the help we have to assist us in our mortal struggles. I never got around to making a list, but I’ll bet Bonita has a list. If you do, will you share it?

No, I’m sorry, I don’t have such a list. I think it would cover the contents of the entire book, no? There are basically four presence circuits: personality gravity; spirit gravity; mind gravity and cosmic gravity. Within each of those presence circuits there are additional ministries. But I’m not sure that’s what you’re talking about. Are you referring to the circuits (which are a force) or to the various personalities who minister? There is a list of circuits in Paper 15 section 9. Also this:

9:2.3-4 There are many untrammeled lines of spiritual force and sources of supermaterial power linking the people of Urantia directly with the Deities of Paradise. There exist the connection of the Thought Adjusters direct with the Universal Father, the widespread influence of the spiritual-gravity urge of the Eternal Son, and the spiritual presence of the Conjoint Creator. There is a difference in function between the spirit of the Son and the spirit of the Spirit. The Third Person in his spiritual ministry may function as mind plus spirit or as spirit alone. In addition to these Paradise presences, Urantians benefit by the spiritual influences and activities of the local and the superuniverse, with their almost endless array of loving personalities who ever lead the true of purpose and the honest of heart upward and inward towards the ideals of divinity and the goal of supreme perfection
BradlyParticipant
Oct 23, 2017, 10:02 PM
Just wanted to say what a lovely and inspiring conversation this is.

Upon much reflection and study, I am convinced that improper, misplaced, misguided, and misdirected prayer, love, and hope do demonstrate faith and do deliver fruits of the Spirit….if one can get beyond the disappointments which attend them and remain faithful and, perhaps, learn something that gains in experience, wisdom, and trust. Can we discover the foolishness or folly of self interest we might imbed into our prayers, love, and hopes? If so….then experiential wisdom is achieved and some immaturity is outgrown. For some such an insight might be gloriously illuminating and profound….for others, perhaps, it is only incremental in its more painful and slower acquirement.

However, eventually, all prayer, love, and hope is more reality oriented than the object or objective or agenda. There can only be one source and motive for reaching outside one’s self for help and solution…God Within. Or so I think.

So….I take back my….of course there’s false hope declaration. There are only faulty objects and objectives rather than anything at all that might be called false within prayer, love, and hope. We should feed those in ourselves and all others whenever and however we can. God will see to the education, maturity, and eventual wisdom that all those will deliver in time.

Thanks everyone.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Oct 24, 2017, 9:50 AM

Bradly wrote:

There can only be one source and motive for reaching outside one’s self for help and solution…God Within. Or so I think.

Don’t forget about the adjutants and the angels. We’re told the angels are frequently the source of the urge to pray.

p1245:4 113:4.4 The impulse of worship largely originates in the spirit promptings of the higher mind adjutants, reinforced by the leadings of the Adjuster. But the urge to pray so often experienced by God-conscious mortals very often arises as the result of seraphic influence. The guarding seraphim is constantly manipulating the mortal environment for the purpose of augmenting the cosmic insight of the human ascender to the end that such a survival candidate may acquire enhanced realization of the presence of the indwelling Adjuster and thus be enabled to yield increased co-operation with the spiritual mission of the divine presence.

Also, I agree that false hope is still hope imperfectly executed. The urge to hope seems to come from the same place, what makes it true or false is its relation to reality. Only truth can be acted out in reality. False hope is incompletely attuned hope. The incomplete, the immature, the imperfect, the evil, (other words for false) will always have difficulty being acted out . . . it’s the square circles kind of thing. Which makes me wonder why so many people put so much energy into forcing false hopes to come true, and why, when they fail, do people need to find scapegoats to punish for their own evil? It’s weird.

(1299.1) 118:5.1 The omnipotence of Deity does not imply the power to do the nondoable. Within the time-space frame and from the intellectual reference point of mortal comprehension, even the infinite God cannot create square circles or produce evil that is inherently good. God cannot do the ungodlike thing. Such a contradiction of philosophic terms is the equivalent of nonentity and implies that nothing is thus created. A personality trait cannot at the same time be Godlike and ungodlike. Compossibility is innate in divine power. And all of this is derived from the fact that omnipotence not only creates things with a nature but also gives origin to the nature of all things and beings.
MaraParticipant
Oct 24, 2017, 3:10 PM

Bonita wrote:

By using the word force I’m guessing you mean a source of energy and the sovereignty of power? If that’s what you mean, I think the answer is soul powers chosen by the power of personality. . . .

The word forces was the word used by the presenter of the topic. We did not analyze it, because face-to-face discussions are designed for the whole group where occurs free flowing comments from participants, rather than diving deep into definitons, as they appear in the UB. The group consists of new and seasoned readers. But deeper discussions can happen in this format.

The soul powers part is interesting and this is something in which an individual participates, whether known or not. I am not aware of any soul powers I have or do not have. Cooperating with the Adjuster happens when the person chooses the best over the less than best. Getting (adjutant) wisdom is a continuous process. “From the third circle onward the adjutant influence progressively diminishes.” (110:6.20 ) “The mastery of the first cosmic circle signalizes the attainment of premorontia mortal maturity and marks the termination of the conjoint ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits as an exclusive influence of mind action in the human personality.” (110:6.21 )

But, is there an end to wisdom?

55:6.5 [. . .] But concerning wisdom: While we do not really know, we conjecture that there can never be a limit to intellectual evolution and the attainment of wisdom. On a seventh-stage world, wisdom can exhaust the material potentials, enter upon mota insight, and eventually even taste of absonite grandeur.
MaraParticipant
Oct 24, 2017, 3:35 PM
A “practical method of discovering the degree to which you have yielded the control of your soul powers to the teaching and guidance” of your TA:

146:3.6[Part IV]

“While you cannot observe the divine spirit at work in your minds, there is a practical method of discovering the degree to which you have yielded the control of your soul powers to the teaching and guidance of this indwelling spirit of the heavenly Father, and that is the degree of your love for your fellow men. This spirit of the Father partakes of the love of the Father, and as it dominates man, it unfailingly leads in the directions of divine worship and loving regard for one’s fellows. At first you believe that you are sons of God because my teaching has made you more conscious of the inner leadings of our Father’s indwelling presence; but presently the Spirit of Truth shall be poured out upon all flesh, and it will live among men and teach all men, even as I now live among you and speak to you the words of truth. And this Spirit of Truth, speaking for the spiritual endowments of your souls, will help you to know that you are the sons of God. It will unfailingly bear witness with the Father’s indwelling presence, your spirit, then dwelling in all men as it now dwells in some, telling you that you are in reality the sons of God.”

Ahhh, yes, the Spirit of Truth that sojourns with the human soul (0:12.13), the “. . .new teacher as the guide and counselor of the soul.” (181:1.4)
BonitaParticipant
Oct 24, 2017, 4:36 PM

Mara wrote:

I am not aware of any soul powers I have or do not have.

You are aware, but you probably call it something else. The process of shifting identity dominance involves the personality mobilizing the powers within the soul for daily living.

p1097:7 100:4.3 But the great problem of religious living consists in the task of unifying the soul powers of the personality by the dominance of LOVE.
MaraParticipant
Oct 24, 2017, 7:48 PM

Gene wrote:

8: How can we know we are responding to our Thought Adjuster, and not just hearing voices in our head, in other words really being spirit-led?

i think the hearing voices thing is related to mysticism type efforts to contact spirit. Somewhere in paper 100 it talks about how dangerous this can be. As opposed to effort to contact the adjuster, simple prayer of thanksgiving and worship is more beneficial. i also think real contact with adjuster followed by real effort to respond equals growth and realizing growth may not happen immediately, maybe not for weeks or months. Remember we do not cause growth, we are grown by spirit. also, wgnhen we crave righteousness it is a clue that the adjuster is in there and functioning.

Thanks Gene. I don’t hear any voices, except sometimes I talk to myself. (Now, where did I put those keys?)

Seems like question 8 boils down to this: How do we really know we are being spirit-led? Your point about craving righteousness is well taken.

34:6.6 [. . .] The seed of theoretical truth is dead, the highest moral concepts without effect, unless and until the divine Spirit breathes upon the forms of truth and quickens the formulas of righteousness.

169:2.6 “I affirm that he who is faithful in little will also be faithful in much, while he who is unrighteous in little will also be unrighteous in much.”

Here is one of the references in answer to #8 the presenter provided, again referring to spirit guidance and communion.

34:6.12 And when such a life of spirit guidance is freely and intelligently accepted, there gradually develops within the human mind a positive consciousness of divine contact and assurance of spirit communion; sooner or later “the Spirit bears witness with your spirit (the Adjuster) that you are a child of God.” Already has your own Thought Adjuster told you of your kinship to God so that the record testifies that the Spirit bears witness “with your spirit,” not to your spirit.
BonitaParticipant
Oct 25, 2017, 12:05 PM

Mara wrote:

What happens if we disobey our Thought Adjuster’s admonitions?

Does the Adjuster admonish?
MaraParticipant
Oct 25, 2017, 4:05 PM

Bonita wrote:

Does the Adjuster admonish?

I think this is an interesting question in retrospect. At first I said no, the Adjuster does not admonish, based on the reference provided, “The Spirit never drives, only leads.” (34:6.11 ) And this,

108:6.7 The Adjusters are the eternal ancestors, the divine originals, of your evolving immortal souls; they are the unceasing urge that leads man to attempt the mastery of the material and present existence in the light of the spiritual and future career. The Monitors are the prisoners of undying hope, the founts of everlasting progression. And how they do enjoy communicating with their subjects in more or less direct channels! How they rejoice when they can dispense with symbols and other methods of indirection and flash their messages straight to the intellects of their human partners!

I wonder if it is mortal conscience that admonishes?

110:5.5 [. . .] Likewise, it is hazardous to attempt the differentiation of the Adjusters’ concept registry from the more or less continuous and conscious reception of the dictations of mortal conscience.

More to say later….Gotta go….

BonitaParticipant
Oct 25, 2017, 4:24 PM

I could only find one reference to the Adjuster admonishing and that was one time in regards to Jesus awaiting for his hour to come:

134:9.3 He burned to give vent to the declaration of the real truth about his Father’s loving character and merciful conduct in the universe, but his faithful Monitor admonished him that his hour had not yet come. But that night, at Bethany, Jesus did drop numerous remarks which greatly disturbed John; and John never fully understood the real significance of what Jesus said in their hearing that evening.

It looks like Jesus loosely interpreted his Adjuster’s admonishment though, since he did end up making remarks about it. Nothing untoward happened because of it.

The dictionary definition of admonish has mostly to do with warning in an advisory way. It can also mean to reprimand, rebuke or chastise. I’m quite sure the Adjuster does none of that, but does the Adjuster give warnings and advice, and if he does, is it all the time or only when asked?

There is this record of an Adjuster’s “appealing admonition” which i think is more of a counseling than an admonishment.

110:7.10 During the making and breaking of a contact between the mortal mind of a destiny reservist and the planetary supervisors, sometimes the indwelling Adjusteris so situated that it becomes possible to transmit a message to the mortal partner. Not long since, on Urantia, such a message was transmitted by a self-acting Adjuster to the human associate, a member of the reserve corps of destiny. This message was introduced by these words: “And now, without injury or jeopardy to the subject of my solicitous devotion and without intent to overchastise or discourage, for me, make record of this my plea to him.” Then followed a beautifully touching and appealing admonition. Among other things, thee Adjuster pleaded “that he more faithfully give me his sincere co-operation, more cheerfully endure the tasks of my emplacement, more faithfully carry out the program of my arrangement, more patiently go through the trials of my selection, more persistently and cheerfully tread the path of my choosing, more humbly receive credit that may accrue as a result of my ceaseless endeavors — thus transmit my admonition to the man of my indwelling. Upon him I bestow the supreme devotion and affection of a divine spirit. And say further to my beloved subject that I will function with wisdom and power until the very end, until the last earth struggle is over; I will be true to my personality trust. And I exhort him to survival, not to disappoint me, not to deprive me of the reward of my patient and intense struggle. On the human will our achievement of personality depends. Circle by circle I have patiently ascended this human mind, and I have testimony that I am meeting the approval of the chief of my kind. Circle by circle I am passing on to judgment. I await with pleasure and without apprehension the roll call of destiny; I am prepared to submit all to the tribunals of the Ancients of Days.”

MaraParticipant
Oct 25, 2017, 5:13 PM
I am curious about this reference about the Adjusters receiving admonitions of “spiritual intelligences”.

108:5.1The Adjusters accept a difficult assignment when they volunteer to indwell such composite beings as live on Urantia. But they have assumed the task of existing in your minds, there to receive the admonitions of the spiritual intelligences of the realms and then to undertake to redictate or translate these spiritual messages to the material mind; they are indispensable to the Paradise ascension.

If Adjusters receive admonitions, do they admonish us? Hmmm.

.

But, Adjusters are not interested in making life easy. (108:5.5 )
MaraParticipant
Oct 25, 2017, 5:22 PM
What about this admonishment? “He [Jesus] recounted how the Adjuster had warned him about the inability of any power or personality to deprive him of the creator prerogative of independence of time.” (137:4.12 )
Mark KurtzParticipant
Oct 25, 2017, 6:11 PM
Consider: Our human experiences, receiving or giving admonishment, includes facial expression, voice inflection and volume, emotional restraint or dynamics, body language and perhaps clever adaption of concepts (word choices). Powerful or easy, we know what admonishment is at our material life level. Is it possible the TA’s and other celestial beings know of other factors besides material utilized during admonishment? What other ways or techniques are likely?

Hmmmmmmm.

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