Undying Hope

112 posts · 9 participants · started Oct 9, 2017, 2:36 PM

1. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Oct 18, 2017, 11:12 AM

   Gene wrote:

   the urge to find God is so fundamental to most of humanity. other Adjuster mind impressions are apparently not so ubiquitous and easy to respond to

   I would think that the basic urge to find God, which comes from the Adjuster himself, can also be called hope.  Think about it . . . God is living in our heads, he has found us, and because he has found us we’re all atwitter with hope to find him too.  That feeling of hope is because somewhere inside of us (the soul) there is a consciousness of his actual presence. Our meager little material minds keep hoping to cut through its dense fog in order to see him better.  But to do so requires a willingness to accept the existence of the soul which feels the divine presence, that higher consciousness which is capable of eternal existence in the direct company of God.

   God’s presence is so powerful, it naturally leaves an impression on consciousness, but material intellect has no idea what to do with it, for the most part.  That’s the zone of uncertainty where some folks, maybe most folks, get tangled up and confused.  There’s little to go on in the dense fog until you find that light . . . that glorious light  . . . which may come and go, but does give you hope . . .  hope you might find it again; hope for the moment you can hold onto it and never let it go.

   That’s when you realize you’re looking and hoping for a person, not just an idea, and persons relate to one another best through trust.  The best relationships are based on trust. At first it’s mostly faith, then when you finally grab that light and hold on, when you reach that first jubilee of intention, it becomes mostly trust from thereout . . . still faith, but now it’s a real personal relationship with the Adjuster and trust is paramount.  And . . . as you move higher in the psychic circles, the fog begins to clear, the light shines ever brighter, the joy ever greater . . . and still there’s hope, because the adventure never ends.

2. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Oct 18, 2017, 11:53 AM

   Bradly wrote:

   Undying hope should lead to faith and hope and ideals worthy of striving for and toward, and those deliver inspiration….motivation, intention, direction, purpose, objectives!  All fed in an endless but growing-in-power feedback loop of energy and results and experience and wisdom!  Such hope is endlessly rewarded and reinforced.

   Isn’t that what the ministry of grace is all about?  You know, that which so few of us draw upon as part of our personality credits?

   (53.6) 3:6.8 God the Father loves men; God the Son serves men; God the Spirit inspires the children of the universe to the ever-ascending adventure of finding God the Father by the ways ordained by God the Sons through the ministry of the grace of God the Spirit.

    

3. G

   GeneParticipant
   Oct 18, 2017, 2:00 PM

   Bonita wrote:

   Gene wrote:

   the urge to find God is so fundamental to most of humanity. other Adjuster mind impressions are apparently not so ubiquitous and easy to respond to

   I would think that the basic urge to find God, which comes from the Adjuster himself, can also be called hope. Think about it . . . God is living in our heads, he has found us, and because he has found us we’re all atwitter with hope to find him too. That feeling of hope is because somewhere inside of us (the soul) there is a consciousness of his actual presence. Our meager little material minds keep hoping to cut through its dense fog in order to see him better. But to do so requires a willingness to accept the existence of the soul which feels the divine presence, that higher consciousness which is capable of eternal existence in the direct company of God. God’s presence is so powerful, it naturally leaves an impression on consciousness, but material intellect has no idea what to do with it, for the most part. That’s the zone of uncertainty where some folks, maybe most folks, get tangled up and confused. There’s little to go on in the dense fog until you find that light . . . that glorious light . . . which may come and go, but does give you hope . . . hope you might find it again; hope for the moment you can hold onto it and never let it go. That’s when you realize you’re looking and hoping for a person, not just an idea, and persons relate to one another best through trust. The best relationships are based on trust. At first it’s mostly faith, then when you finally grab that light and hold on, when you reach that first jubilee of intention, it becomes mostly trust from thereout . . . still faith, but now it’s a real personal relationship with the Adjuster and trust is paramount. And . . . as you move higher in the psychic circles, the fog begins to clear, the light shines ever brighter, the joy ever greater . . . and still there’s hope, because the adventure never ends.

   and the human Jesus demonstrated the possibilities for us in regard to more direct communication with our adjusters.

4. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Oct 18, 2017, 2:23 PM

   Gene wrote:

   and the human Jesus demonstrated the possibilities for us in regard to more direct communication with our adjusters.

   He not only showed us the possibilities, he showed us how to get the job done.  Then, in case that wasn’t enough, he sent the spirit of himself and his Father to live in our souls.  This is HUGE!  The Adjuster is a pre-personality and as such it is hard for the foggy material mind to make LIGHT of it.  I say IT, because that’s what God’s light seems like without a personality to relate to.  Jesus’ presence as a personality in our minds makes the light personal.  Not just any old generalized personal, but personal in the way that God relates to each individual person, one-at-a-time.  It’s the one-at-a-time thing that’s so HUGE.  That’s the face-to-face thing we all crave!

   In a way, it’s Jesus who makes it possible to have direct communication with the Adjuster.  How many times did he say that if we live in him and his words live in us that we will be able to commune freely with him?(180:2.1)  We live in him and the Word (and its meanings) lives in us.  I can’t tell you how HUGE that is! The mind of Jesus is right there within a tiny faith-leap of trust.  We already know the guy intimately, why not live with him and IN him?  It’s a no-brainer.  He’s in the soul . . . no brain necessary (said tongue-in-cheek).  All we have to do is talk to him, beginning with that alter-ego approach we’ve been told about. Communicating eventually becomes the norm, the continuous fruitful connection to the vine becomes the only way of living, the WAY that makes sense, that makes joy, that is stable, that is filled with hope and bursting with love.  HUGE!  Can’t tell you how HUGE! And you don’t have to be a first-circler to do it either; a caveman can do it.

5. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Oct 19, 2017, 12:55 PM

   Mara wrote:

   How has religion historically addressed this struggle between human desires and uncertainty, and faith in the unseen God?

   Primitive thinking portrayed God as the great punisher, which gave rise to the doctrine of original sin. We’re still suffering from this myth. Apparently we don’t get what we want because we don’t deserve it.  Therefore, it’s best not to want anything and to suffer whatever comes. It’s a negative way to look at life, I think.  It’s definitely not positive. Hope is positive which gives it the advantage.  If organized religion is to succeed, I would think it should fill folks with hope.

   (1125.2) 102:6.7 Belief may not be able to resist doubt and withstand fear, but faith is always triumphant over doubting, for faith is both positive and living. The positive always has the advantage over the negative, truth over error, experience over theory, spiritual realities over the isolated facts of time and space.

    

6. M

   MaraParticipant
   Oct 19, 2017, 8:49 PM

   Bonita wrote:

   If organized religion is to succeed, I would think it should fill folks with hope.

   Organized religions are still doing what they do.  Don’t religions have to offer enticements to get new people in?  Does the spilling of Jesus’ blood at Golgotha entice people? Fill them with hope?

   Just yesterday I heard a woman repeat, “Jesus died on the cross for my sins! It says so in the bible.” Maybe some people get *hope* from believing it. I don’t know. Never was I able to believe it.

   ^(60.2)4:5.3 The people of Urantia continue to suffer from the influence of primitive concepts of God. The gods who go on a rampage in the storm; who shake the earth in their wrath and strike down men in their anger; who inflict their judgments of displeasure in times of famine and flood — these are the gods of primitive religion; they are not the Gods who live and rule the universes. Such concepts are a relic of the times when men supposed that the universe was under the guidance and domination of the whims of such imaginary gods. But mortal man is beginning to realize that he lives in a realm of comparative law and order as far as concerns the administrative policies and conduct of the Supreme Creators and the Supreme Controllers.

   ^(60.3)4:5.4 The barbarous idea of appeasing an angry God, of propitiating an offended Lord, of winning the favor of Deity through sacrifices and penance and even by the shedding of blood, represents a religion wholly puerile and primitive, a philosophy unworthy of an enlightened age of science and truth. Such beliefs are utterly repulsive to the celestial beings and the divine rulers who serve and reign in the universes. It is an affront to God to believe, hold, or teach that innocent blood must be shed in order to win his favor or to divert the fictitious divine wrath.

   ^(60.4)4:5.5 The Hebrews believed that “without the shedding of blood there could be no remission of sin.” They had not found deliverance from the old and pagan idea that the Gods could not be appeased except by the sight of blood, though Moses did make a distinct advance when he forbade human sacrifices and substituted therefor, in the primitive minds of his childlike Bedouin followers, the ceremonial sacrifice of animals.

   ^(60.5)4:5.6 The bestowal of a Paradise Son on your world was inherent in the situation of closing a planetary age; it was inescapable, and it was not made necessary for the purpose of winning the favor of God. This bestowal also happened to be the final personal act of a Creator Son in the long adventure of earning the experiential sovereignty of his universe. What a travesty upon the infinite character of God! this teaching that his fatherly heart in all its austere coldness and hardness was so untouched by the misfortunes and sorrows of his creatures that his tender mercies were not forthcoming until he saw his blameless Son bleeding and dying upon the cross of Calvary!

   Where’s the hope in this history?

7. B

   BradlyParticipant
   Oct 19, 2017, 9:26 PM

   I wonder what scripture the lady might quote from the Bible that “…says so.”  Many a preacher has said so.  My youthful ears heard that Jesus LIVED for us and died only to show us that death has no grip upon God’s children.  Original sin and atonement and eternal damnation were reserved to scare the wicked into salvation….none of those could I find in the words of the Master himself in the Bible.

   Although I grew up in a fundamentalist congregation, still did the teachings of Jesus hold the center of belief…if not the pulpit, where John’s revelation and Paul’s Romanization/Mithraic paganisms hold center court.  Some people seem to think that whatever a preacher/revivalist says is “in the Bible”.  Not so.  I became a preacher boy in my early teens….and left the church by that which I learned there and by the obvious hypocrisies upon the pulpit.

   I found hope in the teachings of the Master….and his resurrection and his fearlessness in the face of mortal abuse and hate.  Many others have also been so inspired over time as demonstrated by their own faith in God’s love and mercy and gift of heaven above.

   I think today more religions are getting more focused on the namesake of their professed religion – Christianity.

   The Spirit of Truth speaks truth to all.  I see more and more hearing and listening to this teacher of truth within and responding more and more to the Good Shepherd and to the story of the good Samaritan.   Hope grows on our world…..every day and everywhere, one more soul at a time.

   Undying Hope….is very much alive.  The new testament quote most often recited by believers is:

   John 3:16 16

   For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

   

   "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

8. M

   MaraParticipant
   Oct 20, 2017, 12:07 AM

   Bradly wrote:

   I found hope in the teachings of the Master. . . .

   Thanks for sharing.

   I remember some of my experiences before I was saved – born again. I remember seeing the word JESUS here and there out in public places where people were advertising him. I remember the feeling of attraction when I saw that word, before salvation. I went to the Holy Land after a stint in the Peace Corps, before salvation. I walked the Via Dolorosa. I went to Gethsemane. I looked inside the Garden Tomb. I went to the church of the Holy Sepulchre. I went to Bethlehem and climbed down some stairs going into the roomy cave reputed to be the stable where he was born. I walked the winding maze of alleys and byways in Old Jerusalem. There was a definite something in that land and in that air, and I felt it and I sensed it, like the attractiveness of the word JESUS. I think that word has drawing power. And while I do not agree with the woman’s interpretation of the death of Jesus, I do think Jesus draws people to himself, as she is drawn to him – the true shepherd – and both she and I and millions of others do hear his voice, in spite of the teachings of clerics, priests, prophets and holy books and fabricated interpretations.   I do think erroneous ideas and interpretations, even my own, will eventually give way to better spiritual insight over time. That’s my hope.

9. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Oct 20, 2017, 12:13 PM

   Is there such a thing as false hope?

10. G

    GeneParticipant
    Oct 20, 2017, 1:46 PM

    Bonita wrote:

    Is there such a thing as false hope?

    no

11. M

    MaraParticipant
    Oct 20, 2017, 2:23 PM

    Bonita wrote:

    Is there such a thing as false hope?

    False hope seems to me to be an oxymoron: contradictory and incongruous. Isn’t it like saying false victory or cruel kindness? Hope is a positive attitude of some possibly future or present outcome expectation, even if such outcome expectation is completely immature or material in nature.  I thought of this reference:

    7:3.6   Conversely, if your supplications are purely material and wholly self-centered, there exists no plan whereby such unworthy prayers can find lodgment in the spirit circuit of the Eternal Son. The content of any petition which is not “spirit indited” can find no place in the universal spiritual circuit; such purely selfish and material requests fall dead; they do not ascend in the circuits of true spirit values. Such words are as “sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal.”

     

12. M

    MaraParticipant
    Oct 20, 2017, 3:10 PM

    The word *undying* qualifies the word *hope*. What are other synonyms for undying? Inextinguishable is one I like. How about unending or imperishable? Or unfathomable or measureless. And there is a bunch more. But the revelators use the word *undying* and I think they use this word specifically for a reason. Anyone care to comment?

13. MK

    Mark KurtzParticipant
    Oct 20, 2017, 3:28 PM

    Undying because the person does not give up, continues in faith, and never stops reaching in one’s thoughts for something better. Hope is the fulfillment of that undying feature of mind capability.

    Ya think?

14. B

    BonitaParticipant
    Oct 20, 2017, 5:16 PM

    What if somebody is hoping for the nondoable?

15. G

    GeneParticipant
    Oct 20, 2017, 6:05 PM

    Bonita wrote:

    What if somebody is hoping for the nondoable?

    then it’s wishing

16. T

    tasParticipant
    Oct 20, 2017, 6:30 PM

    Judas had his hopes, which didn’t turn out to be true hopes:

    “Every time Judas allowed his hopes to soar high and Jesus would do or say something to dash them to pieces, there was always left in Judas’s heart a scar of bitter resentment; and as these scars multiplied, presently that heart, so often wounded, lost all real affection for the one who had inflicted this distasteful experience upon a well-intentioned but cowardly and self-centered personality.” (177:4.11)

    Jesus warned not to entertain false hope:

    “But do not entertain false hope; the world will stumble at my words. Even you, my friends, do not fully perceive what I am unfolding to your confused minds.” (137:6.5)

17. G

    GeneParticipant
    Oct 20, 2017, 6:43 PM

    If hope springs from the Adjuster, how could it be false?

18. A

    AndréParticipant
    Oct 20, 2017, 6:48 PM

    ---

    Bonita,

    What if somebody is hoping for the nondoable?

    3:3.5 (49.4) Omnipotence does not imply the power to do the nondoable, the ungodlike act. Neither does omniscience imply the knowing of the unknowable. But such statements can hardly be made comprehensible to the finite mind. The creature can hardly understand the range and limitations of the will of the Creator.

    Nondoable, unknowable,nonpresent/absent

    … all those statements are synonym of “ungodlike act”.

    Satan was hoping and act ungodlikely for the nondoable.

    Ungodlikely acts are unreal. Unrealistic. Not part of Reality. As you quoted earlier Bonita

    #28266

       48:6.22 Law is life itself and not the rules of its conduct. Evil is a transgression of law, not a violation of the rules of conduct pertaining to life.

    …then it’s unrealistic.

    Have a nice w-end,

    André

19. B

    BradlyParticipant
    Oct 20, 2017, 7:14 PM

    Of course there is ‘false hope’….hope for the sun to come up in the west or hope to be an astronaut or an Olympic gold medalist or fame and fortune and a life of ease?  False hope, like unreasonable expectations, delivers disappointment.  Hope and yearning may come from and by the TA….but not the object of immature or impatient hope….that’s pure mortal mind.  People also love stuff they shouldn’t.  Can’t blame love….or hope….for the errors of mortal mind.  False hope delivers disappointment and suffering…..another little lesson in growing up and getting our priorities and motives straight.  Don’t you think there’s also prayers that are foolish and self centered?

    Didn’t the mother of James and John hope for them to be at the Master’s left and right that last week in Jerusalem?

    The world is filled with false hopes…..part of growing up.

     

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

20. G

    GeneParticipant
    Oct 20, 2017, 7:45 PM

    Bradly wrote:

    Of course there is ‘false hope’….hope for the sun to come up in the west or hope to be an astronaut or an Olympic gold medalist or fame and fortune and a life of ease? False hope, like unreasonable expectations, delivers disappointment. Hope and yearning may come from and by the TA….but not the object of immature or impatient hope….that’s pure mortal mind. People also love stuff they shouldn’t. Can’t blame love….or hope….for the errors of mortal mind. False hope delivers disappointment and suffering…..another little lesson in growing up and getting our priorities and motives straight. Don’t you think there’s also prayers that are foolish and self centered? Didn’t the mother of James and John hope for them to be at the Master’s left and right that last week in Jerusalem? The world is filled with false hopes…..part of growing up.

    if I may split a couple of hairs here: as hope springs from the Adjuster it’s real and has definite value. Our mind and free will and personality can change it into something else. Hope cannot therefore be false but we can certainly give hope a different word if it’s for silly stuff that has little or no real value. That’s why I call it wishing.

    also, as Jesus mentioned false hope, remember he is the 4th epochal revelation and the concept of Adjuster origin hope is part of the 5th. We’ve been upgraded.

    also, I find that sometimes the same words are used by the authors with differing meanings or context and other times they are very specific and it’s up to us to figure that one out.

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