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Religion In Human Experience – Paper 100

235 posts · 9 participants · started Jan 7, 2018, 4:53 PM

BonitaParticipant
Jan 26, 2018, 6:42 PM

George Park wrote:

These two concepts do create a paradox, which is difficult to comprehend, so I take your point. However, the original question was if both concepts are essential to religion, not whether or not logic and reason can comprehend how both can be true. Clearly, in the religion of Jesus it is faith-insight which discerns that the personality of the Father is transcendently present in the universe on Paradise and his spirit is immanently present within us, even though the intellect cannot really comprehend how this is so.

Yes, I think both concepts are part of religion but I’m not sure the essential qualities of either concept matter much because religion evolves. Religion is a natural phenomenon. Religion will happen and it will evolve regardless of concepts. The concept of a transcendental God was already part of most religions at the time Jesus taught. It was the concept of fatherhood and the concept of God being within each individual that was so revelational. I think religion begins its evolution with fear of the unknown and that fear becomes a Great Fear, one that can be bargained with, awed, reverenced and finally trusted. The evolution of religion is to make this Great Fear personable and friendly. Isn’t that what Jesus taught, the Creator-creature connection? how the creature reaches up because the Creator is reaching down? Didn’t he teach sonship which connects the transcendent with the immanent and unifies it all in the Supreme?

(1262.1) 115:3.4 It is only man’s distance from infinity that causes this concept to be expressed as one word. While infinity is on the one hand UNITY, on the other it is DIVERSITY without end or limit. Infinity, as it is observed by finite intelligences, is the maximum paradox of creature philosophy and finite metaphysics. Though man’s spiritual nature reaches up in the worship experience to the Father who is infinite, man’s intellectual comprehension capacity is exhausted by the maximum conception of the Supreme Being. Beyond the Supreme, concepts are increasingly names; less and less are they true designations of reality; more and more do they become the creature’s projection of finite understanding toward the superfinite.

Not to belabor the function of the soul here, but isn’t the soul our personal maximum conception of the Supreme? And, isn’t that where Jesus lives, the fella who reveals the potential of the Supreme to us, the fella who already attained the level of Supremacy? Isn’t his Spirit of Truth really the Spirit of the Father and the Son? Personally, I’m not all that concerned about the transcendence of God, I take that for granted. What I don’t take for granted is the evolution of my own soul which involves the immanence of God. My surviving identity is totally dependent upon the growth of my soul, and that growth also depends on God partnering with me, his lowly critter.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 27, 2018, 1:50 PM

George Park wrote:

At his baptism he had perfected the will of his temporal identity until it was in complete harmony with the will of his eternal identity.

I’ve been thinking about this, and I want you to know that I understand what you mean here and I essentially agree. But, I would describe the evolution of dominance in a slightly different way; it’s a transfer.

First, I don’t think humans can perfect their own will. I think they can control it, or master it. Perfecting is the job of the Adjuster, no? The human will desires perfection, identifies with perfection and then makes a volitional response to it (once discovered, recognized and interpreted). In the process, identity is slowly transferred from the material mind to the morontial soul. The temporal, material identity eventually vanishes and the morontia soul becomes the new identity. This is not a harmonization of identity. It is rather a transfer of identity from material to supermaterial and this is accomplished by the personality. The personality is the pattern of identity; it chooses its dominating power and expands its identity accordingly (power-personality synthesis).

112:2.15 The purpose of cosmic evolution is to achieve unity of personality through increasing spirit dominance, volitional response to the teaching and leading of the Thought Adjuster. Personality, both human and superhuman, is characterized by an inherent cosmic quality which may be called “the evolution of dominance,” the expansion of the control of both itself and its environment.

112:2.20 But selfhood of survival value, selfhood that can transcend the experience of death, is only evolved by establishing a potential transfer of the seat of the identity of the evolving personality from the transient life vehicle — the material body — to the more enduring and immortal nature of the morontia soul and on beyond to those levels whereon the soul becomes infused with, and eventually attains the status of, spirit reality. This actual transfer from material association to morontia identification is effected by the sincerity, persistence, and steadfastness of the God-seeking decisions of the human creature.
George ParkParticipant
Jan 27, 2018, 10:02 PM

Bonita wrote:

George Park wrote: At his baptism he had perfected the will of his temporal identity until it was in complete harmony with the will of his eternal identity.

I’ve been thinking about this, and I want you to know that I understand what you mean here and I essentially agree. But, I would describe the evolution of dominance in a slightly different way; it’s a transfer. First, I don’t think humans can perfect their own will. I think they can control it, or master it. Perfecting is the job of the Adjuster, no? The human will desires perfection, identifies with perfection and then makes a volitional response to it (once discovered, recognized and interpreted). In the process, identity is slowly transferred from the material mind to the morontial soul. The temporal, material identity eventually vanishes and the morontia soul becomes the new identity. This is not a harmonization of identity. It is rather a transfer of identity from material to supermaterial and this is accomplished by the personality.

This is such a hard issue to address, because it goes right to the mystery at the heart of religious experience. But I’m willing to share a few of my thoughts on it, with the proviso that this represents my limited understanding of this mystery. I don’t believe the material identity vanishes as the seat of identity is transferred to the soul; at least, not exactly. Instead, I think the spiritualizing intellectual identity of the adjutant mind determines the identity and character of the morontia soul.

This evolving soul does, however, possess a continuing character derived from the decisions of its former associated adjutant mind, and this character becomes active memory when the patterns thereof are energized by the returning Adjuster. (112:6.7)

The soul faithfully reflects the character of the spiritualizing material intellect. Death adds nothing to it. Those protoplasmic memories of the material life with survival value are duplicated and retained by the Adjuster.

The pre-existent Thought Adjuster, with the memory transcription of the mortal career, proceeds to Divinington; (112:3.5)

The pattern of memory persists in the soul, but this pattern requires the presence of the former Adjuster to become immediately self-realizable as continuing memory. (112:6.8)

The material mind is no more, but the spiritualizing character of the intellectual identity once resident in this adjutant mind, along with all of its worthwhile material memories, survives. The material mind has vanished, but the spiritualizing identity of this material mind endures forever. And this is how I understand something the Divine Counselor tells us about the unified personality of Michael of Nebadon and Jesus of Nazareth.

Even God and man can coexist in a unified personality, as is so exquisitely demonstrated in the present status of Christ Michael—Son of Man and Son of God. (0:5.3)
BonitaParticipant
Jan 27, 2018, 11:20 PM

George Park wrote:

Instead, I think the spiritualizing intellectual identity of the adjutant mind determines the identity and character of the morontia soul.

Granted, thoughts get spiritized, but that is something that happens within the soul, not the material mind, as I understand it. Once something gets spiritualized it transmutes from material to morontial and resides in the soul. This is a superadjutant process. Anything that contributes to the growth of a noble character is captured by the spirit gravity circuit and resides in the soul, where it stays. In fact, I think the whole business of character growth actually happens within the soul, not the material mind. Plus, the psychic circles are part of the process of weaning the mind off of adjutant mind influence and relying more on superadjutant influence (Holy Spirit).

p1211:5 110:6.20 From the seventh to the third circle there occurs increased and unified action of the seven adjutant mind-spirits in the task of weaning the mortal mind from its dependence on the realities of the material life mechanisms preparatory to increased introduction to morontia levels of experience. From the third circle onward the adjutant influence progressively diminishes.

p1211:6 110:6.21 The seven circles embrace mortal experience extending from the highest purely animal level to the lowest actual contactual morontia level of self-consciousness as a personality experience. The mastery of the first cosmic circle signalizes the attainment of premorontia mortal maturity and marks the termination of the conjoint ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits as an exclusive influence of mind action in the human personality. Beyond the first circle, mind becomes increasingly akin to the intelligence of the morontia stage of evolution, the conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit of a local universe.

Something must take over for the adjutants as they diminish. That would be the supermind of the soul, which is described in the above quote as the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit. All of this happens as a result of soul growth, or spiritual growth, and involves the entire personality, not just the intellect. So, I’m not really certain what you mean by spiritualizing intellectual identity unless you mean the soul. In this next quote the spiritualized intellect is capable of discerning true values.

130:4.10 The eye of the material mind perceives a world of factual knowledge; the eye of the spiritualized intellect discerns a world of true values. These two views, synchronized and harmonized, reveal the world of reality, wherein wisdom interprets the phenomena of the universe in terms of progressive personal experience.

We know that true values can only be discerned in the soul and that true character transformation also takes place in the soul. So, I’m pretty sure this has nothing to do with the adjutants. They play no role other than opening the gateway to the soul.

152:6.4 Jesus taught the appeal to the emotions as the technique of arresting and focusing the intellectual attention. He designated the mind thus aroused and quickened as the gateway to the soul, where there resides that spiritual nature of man which must recognize truth and respond to the spiritual appeal of the gospel in order to afford the permanent results of true character transformations.
George ParkParticipant
Jan 28, 2018, 2:42 PM

Bonita wrote:

Granted, thoughts get spiritized, but that is something that happens within the soul, not the material mind, as I understand it. Once something gets spiritualized it transmutes from material to morontial and resides in the soul.

I can appreciate this interpretation, but I have a somewhat different understanding of spiritualization. The material mind is not entirely material; it contains spiritual potentials. The adjutant mind-spirits of worship and wisdom are included in the spiritual circuits of the local universe.

This ministry of the sixth and seventh adjutants indicates mind evolution crossing the threshold of spiritual ministry. And immediately are such minds of worship- and wisdom-function included in the spiritual circuits of the Divine Minister. (34:5.3)

This labor of the Spirit is largely effected through the seven adjutants, the spirits of promise, the unifying and co-ordinating spirit-mind of the evolving planets, ever and unitedly leading the races of men towards higher ideas and spiritual ideals. (34:5.2)

It is by virtue of these two adjutants that we make our first moral choice around the age of six, at which time the Adjuster is dispatched from Divinington. This initial choice between spiritual values is made in the consciousness of material mind and spiritualizes a thought in the adjutant mind. And this happens before the creation of the morontia soul by the Adjuster. This spiritualized thought in the material mind is not transmuted to a morontia reality. Rather, the Adjuster creates a morontia pattern of this thought in the soul and retains a spirit duplicate of this memory. This morontia pattern and spirit memory overlay the spiritualized thought in adjutant mind; in some sense, they are added to it. We may be aware of the soul to a greater or lesser degree, but we live, think and are conscious in the adjutant mind. We are never fully conscious of the morontia soul in this life.

During the life in the flesh the evolving soul is enabled to reinforce the supermaterial decisions of the mortal mind. The soul, being supermaterial, does not of itself function on the material level of human experience…. During life the mortal will, the personality power of decision-choice, is resident in the material mind circuits; (111:3.2)

Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. (111:1.5)

The attainment of the first psychic circle marks the termination of “the adjutant mind-spirits as an exclusive influence of mind action in the human personality,” but their influence does not end; the influence of the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit is added to it and presumably becomes dominant. The influence of the adjutant mind-spirits does not end until physical death.

While I find this particular interpretation of spiritualization personally helpful, I am not certain that someone else does not have a better one. Interpretations can change with the evidence, or at least they should be able to, if they’re not dogmatic. What I am certain about is the potential for personality to realize and unify three levels of conscious experience.

Man’s greatest adventure in the flesh consists in the well-balanced and sane effort to advance the borders of self-consciousness out through the dim realms of embryonic soul-consciousness in a wholehearted effort to reach the borderland of spirit-consciousness—contact with the divine presence. (196:3.34)
BonitaParticipant
Jan 28, 2018, 5:05 PM
I want to thank you George for the conversation. I’m enjoying it very much.

George Park wrote:

I can appreciate this interpretation, but I have a somewhat different understanding of spiritualization. The material mind is not entirely material; it contains spiritual potentials. The adjutant mind-spirits of worship and wisdom are included in the spiritual circuits of the local universe.

I’m of the understanding that spiritual potential only comes from the Adjuster. The adjutants of worship and wisdom are superanimal but subspiritual. The adjutant of worship provides an awareness of the promise of spiritual potential; it is merely the impulse which prompts the mind to seek for it. The adjutant of wisdom directs that impulse toward the soul, the higher phase of men’s minds, where the Adjuster provides the potential of all attributes of Deity.

110:1.2 These Monitors are efficient ministers to the higher phases of men’s minds; they are wise and experienced manipulators of the spiritual potential of the human intellect.

107:4.1 To say that a Thought Adjuster is divine is merely to recognize the nature of origin. It is highly probable that such purity of divinity embraces the essence of the potential of all attributes of Deity which can be contained within such a fragment of the absolute essence of the universal presence of the eternal and infinite Paradise Father.

The reason why the two higher adjutants are in the spiritual circuits of the universe is because of the overlapping function of mind. These two adjutants are the bridge up to the superadjutant level of the soul. The adjutant of wisdom makes contact with the Holy Spirit, who is the superadjutant level, and it’s this supermind level which is part of the spirit circuits of the universe (36:5.15). The two higher adjutants are considered part of the spirit circuits because of this overlap with the soul.

92:02-3 The adjutant of worship — the appearance in animal consciousness of superanimal potentials for reality perception. This might be termed the primordial human instinct for Deity. The adjutant of wisdom — the manifestation in a worshipful mind of the tendency to direct its adoration in higher channels of expression and toward ever-expanding concepts of Deity reality.

196:3.25 Morality is the essential pre-existent soil of personal God-consciousness, the personal realization of the Adjuster’s inner presence, but such morality is not the source of religious experience and the resultant spiritual insight. The moral nature is superanimal but subspiritual. Morality is equivalent to the recognition of duty, the realization of the existence of right and wrong. The moral zone intervenes between the animal and the human types of mind as morontia functions between the material and the spiritual spheres of personality attainment.

65:7.7 The adjutants function exclusively in the evolution of experiencing mind up to the level of the sixth phase, the spirit of worship. At this level there occurs that inevitable overlapping of ministry – the phenomenon of the higher reaching down to co-ordinate with the lower in anticipation of subsequent attainment of advanced levels of development. And still additional spirit ministry accompanies the action of the seventh and last adjutant, the spirit of wisdom. Throughout the ministry of the spirit world the individual never experiences abrupt transitions of spirit co-operation; always are these changes gradual and reciprocal.

36:5.15 Living mind, prior to the appearance of capacity to learn from experience, is the ministry domain of the Master Physical Controllers. Creature mind, before acquiring the ability to recognize divinity and worship Deity, is the exclusive domain of the adjutant spirits. With the appearance of the spiritual response of the creature intellect, such created minds at once become superminded, being instantly encircuited in the spirit cycles of the local universe Mother Spirit.

I have more to say, but in another post. These posts get too long when all the quotes are included. Thanks.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 28, 2018, 6:46 PM
George Park wrote:

It is by virtue of these two adjutants that we make our first moral choice around the age of six, at which time the Adjuster is dispatched from Divinington. This initial choice between spiritual values is made in the consciousness of material mind and spiritualizes a thought in the adjutant mind. And this happens before the creation of the morontia soul by the Adjuster.

I don’t see it that way, but it’s probably a matter of word choice. For instance, I believe it is only the Adjuster who can spiritize a thought, or spiritualize the mind ( 2:0.3; 101:6.7; 110:2.3; 110:4.2; 111:7.3). And that is because spiritization and spiritualization are soul level phenomenon; the Adjuster is the Spirit Source for spiritization.

Also, don’t forget that the Adjuster is not dispatched until the mind is encircuited by the Holy Spirit. The Adjuster cannot arrive until this happens. The Holy Spirit is the supermind of the soul, the arena or dwelling place so to speak. Within the soul is the cosmic fabric on which they Adjuster threads spirit patterns of character (111:2.2). It is the arrival of the Holy Spirit who signalizes the birth of the soul, not the arrival of the Adjuster.

103:0.1 Man’s first supermind endowment is that of personality encircuitment in the Holy Spirit of the Universe Creative Spirit; and long before either the bestowals of the divine Sons or the universal bestowal of the Adjusters, this influence functions to enlarge man’s viewpoint of ethics, religion, and spirituality. Subsequent to the bestowals of the Paradise Sons the liberated Spirit of Truth makes mighty contributions to the enlargement of the human capacity to perceive religious truths.

So, the order of things is:
1. The human mind responds to the urge of the spirit of worship and awakens to the need for superhuman guidance.
2. The human mind then responds to the direction provided by the spirit of wisdom as to where to find that superhuman guidance.
3. The human personality consciously chooses to submit to that directionalization.
4. Instantly the human mind becomes encircuited by the Holy Spirit who prepares the mind for the reception of both the Spirit of Truth and the Adjuster.
108:2.2 The Adjusters cannot invade the mortal mind until it has been duly prepared by the indwelling ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits and encircuited in the Holy Spirit. And it requires the co-ordinate function of all seven adjutants to thus qualify the human mind for the reception of an Adjuster.

110:6.13 The seventh circle. This level is entered when human beings develop the powers of personal choice, individual decision, moral responsibility, and the capacity for the attainment of spiritual individuality. This signifies the united function of the seven adjutant mind-spirits under the direction of the spirit of wisdom, the encircuitment of the mortal creature in the influence of the Holy Spirit, and, on Urantia, the first functioning of the Spirit of Truth, together with the reception of a Thought Adjuster in the mortal mind. Entrance upon the seventh circle constitutes a mortal creature a truly potential citizen of the local universe.

A lot can be understood about this if you look at what happen with Andon and Fonta. When they were 10 years old the spirit of worship made contact first with Fonta, then Andon. This is when there was that sudden appearance of the worshipful group of human feelings: awe, reverence, humility and gratitude (62:5.4). The spirit of worship awakened need in them. When, after a year of many secret conferences between the two of them, it occurred to them to flee north (62:5.8). This is the directionalization provided by the spirit of wisdom, and when the twins made a purposeful decision based on meditative thought, the spirit of wisdom first functioned on this planet.(62:6.5). At that point there was a mobilization of all seven adjutants, which is required for the coming of the Holy Spirit. There was no spiritization of thinking mentioned in this story. Interestingly, the one thing they don’t tell us is when personality arrived, since that was necessary for decision making. I would think it had to arrive after, or concomitant with, the spirit of worship contact which elevated them to superanimal status.

36:5.11 The spirit of worship forever distinguishes the animal of its association from the soulless creatures of mind endowment. Worship is the badge of spiritual-ascension candidacy.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 28, 2018, 8:07 PM

George Park wrote:

This spiritualized thought in the material mind is not transmuted to a morontia reality. Rather, the Adjuster creates a morontia pattern of this thought in the soul and retains a spirit duplicate of this memory. This morontia pattern and spirit memory overlay the spiritualized thought in adjutant mind; in some sense, they are added to it.

I’ve heard of this line of thinking before and it has never satisfied me. One reason is that I see a difference between a morontia pattern and a morontia reality. A pattern is a design which configures reality that may consist of multiple energy components. I’m pretty sure patterns themselves do not evolve. They are duplications, reproductions. (11:9.5)

The soul consists of a real substance, not just a pattern of a substance. If the soul were just a collection of pattern duplicates, how would it be able to evolve and grow on its own, “in and of itself”? (117:3.6) If the soul can grow all by itself, it must be alive. If it isn’t alive, why would it’s appearance be called a birth? I think the word is meant more than metaphorically. I am convinced that the soul is alive, if it were not how could we kill it with iniquity? If the soul weren’t alive, how could it initiate worship? Why would it? I can’t envision a collection of patterns worshipping.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 28, 2018, 8:36 PM

George Park wrote:

We may be aware of the soul to a greater or lesser degree, but we live, think and are conscious in the adjutant mind. We are never fully conscious of the morontia soul in this life.

I agree that we can never be completely conscious of our souls, but aren’t we told the greatest adventure in life is to advance our consciousness to the borderlands of the soul where the superconscious overlaps it? Doesn’t that mean we’re supposed to actually find our way into the soul and through to the other side?

196:3.3 The great challenge to modern man is to achieve better communication with the divine Monitor that dwells within the human mind. Man’s greatest adventure in the flesh consists in the well-balanced and sane effort to advance the borders of self-consciousness out through the dim realms of embryonic soul-consciousness in a wholehearted effort to reach the borderland of spirit-consciousness—contact with the divine presence. Such an experience constitutes God-consciousness, an experience mightily confirmative of the pre-existent truth of the religious experience of knowing God. Such spirit-consciousness is the equivalent of the knowledge of the actuality of sonship with God. Otherwise, the assurance of sonship is the experience of faith.

Also, why would they tell us that truth is only experienced on the supermaterial level of consciousness? Isn’t that the soul? And I don’t think we are told to experience truth with a pattern, but with a person who lives in the soul, the Spirit of Truth. Surely the Spirit of Truth is alive, and I cannot imagine him living within something that is inert, a collection of patterns.

180:5.3 Truth is a spiritual reality value experienced only by spirit-endowed beings who function upon supermaterial levels of universe consciousness, and who, after the realization of truth, permit its spirit of activation to live and reign within their souls.

Our hope for divinity attainment involves the discovery, recognition, interpretation and conscious fruitful embrace of truth, beauty and goodness. If these things are experienced only on supermaterial levels of consciousness, is there somewhere else this can happen other than the soul? What other arena is available to us that is supermaterial?

No, I think many of us are very conscious of our souls. Of course, not fully or completely, but definitely conscious on at least an elementary level. The most exciting thing is the coming of the Spirit of Truth to dwell there. It makes the soul so much more approachable and experienceable because we know Jesus, we have been introduced to him and his mind while living on earth. He is now living in the soul, well within reach, especially since he is always reaching out. In my own experience, he never stops knocking at the door of the gateway, hoping we will open it and connect. The vine idea is meant to help us find our way to the soul so we can experience all these wonderful things with our friend and partner, and also strive for that borderland contact with our real and genuine alter ego, the Adjuster.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 28, 2018, 8:57 PM

George Park wrote:

The attainment of the first psychic circle marks the termination of “the adjutant mind-spirits as an exclusive influence of mind action in the human personality,” but their influence does not end; the influence of the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit is added to it and presumably becomes dominant. The influence of the adjutant mind-spirits does not end until physical death.

I agree that the adjutant mind ministry doesn’t just vanish from the scene as we climb to the higher psychic circles. What happens is it’s urges and prodding are not responded to, primarily because the personality has transferred its attention to a more dominant urging and prodding. Spirit is always dominant.

The superadjutant endowment of the Creative spirit is added in the seventh psychic circle, not the first. She works in concert, as one, with the Spirit of Truth and the Adjuster as the source of spirit guidance, which becomes ever dominant in circle progress. Also, there is another thing that happens probably after the third circle, and that is the soul’s own contribution to the evolution of spirit dominance. The soul itself begins to foster a mind function that seeks coordination with spirit realities. One of the fine nuances of this next quote is the fact that soul consciousness belongs to the soul, not the material mind. The soul has its own consciousness, it knows what it wants and figures out how to get it, hence it grows in and of itself.

111:3.4 Both the human mind and the divine Adjuster are conscious of the presence and differential nature of the evolving soul—the Adjuster fully, the mind partially. The soul becomes increasingly conscious of both the mind and the Adjuster as associated identities, proportional to its own evolutionary growth. The soul partakes of the qualities of both the human mind and the divine spirit but persistently evolves toward augmentation of spirit control and divine dominance through the fostering of a mind function whose meanings seek to co-ordinate with true spirit value.

I also want to clarify a point I made earlier about the Adjuster being the one who spiritizes. By saying that I’m referring to an Adjuster indwelt mind. It is possible to have a soul without an Adjuster, in which case the Holy Spirit would do the spiritizing. A personal spirit presence in the soul is required for this I believe.
George ParkParticipant
Jan 28, 2018, 9:13 PM
Bonita, if you are satisfied with your interpretation, then by all means stick with it. The only thing which really matters is how useful this interpretation is to you personally in discovering the ultimate source of all spirit reality for yourself. Perhaps you will allow that not everyone must have exactly the same intellectual interpretation of these things in order to set out upon “man’s greatest adventure in the flesh.” Peace, friend.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 28, 2018, 9:30 PM

George Park wrote:

Bonita, if you are satisfied with your interpretation, then by all means stick with it. The only thing which really matters is how useful this interpretation is to you personally in discovering the ultimate source of all spirit reality for yourself. Perhaps you will allow that not everyone must have exactly the same intellectual interpretation of these things in order to set out upon “man’s greatest adventure in the flesh.” Peace, friend.

Oh of course. I don’t insist at all that anyone adopt my understanding. I get the impression you’re upset with me for sharing my thoughts. Sorry about that. I thought we were having a conversation. Oh well! No animus intended, I just love to write about the soul. I’m very inspired by it all and want to share my thoughts. If you don’t like them, it’s fine by me. By all means, carry on and be happy!
BonitaParticipant
Jan 28, 2018, 10:31 PM
This is not directed at George who is clearly no longer interested in my ideas. I just want to say something else about spiritization and spiritualization for anyone who might be interested.

The reason I don’t think the material mind can spiritize a thought is because there is no spirit source to do so. The adjutants are not spirit ministry, they are mind ministry. Even though the higher adjutants are considered to be within the spirit circuits, they are still mind ministry, not spirit ministry. They are part of mind gravity, not spirit gravity.

I think spiritized thoughts are those which can be potentially captured by spirit gravity. Although I’m not certain of this, it is my working theory that a spiritized thought is one with the potential of becoming spiritualized once acted upon. An Adjuster spiritized thought alone doesn’t quite make it until acted upon at which time it becomes actually spiritualized and immediately transmuted to the morontia soul as a bona fide experience contributory to the Supreme.

(1288.3) 117:6.4 The act of the creature’s choosing to do the will of the Creator is a cosmic value and has a universe meaning which is immediately reacted to by some unrevealed but ubiquitous force of co-ordination, probably the functioning of the ever-enlarging action of the Supreme Being.

Whenever TUB mentions the spiritualized mind, I think they are referring to the soul (117:5.4 below). They tell us the only way we can experience the spiritualized mind is with faith-vision, spiritual insight, or what Jesus described as spiritual eyes. We’re also told that our minds cannot create value, which is a spirit reality. The only thing our material minds can do is discover, recognize, interpret and choose. One might wonder just what it is we’re supposed to be discovering with faith vision if it is not a glimpse of the soul and the spiritual values presented there by the value sorter.

(1286.2) 117:5.4 In the eternal future, God the Supreme will be actualized — creatively expressed and spiritually portrayed — in the spiritualized mind, the immortal soul, of ascendant man, even as the Universal Father was so revealed in the earth life of Jesus.

(2094.9) 196:3.10 The human mind does not create real values; human experience does not yield universe insight. Concerning insight, the recognition of moral values and the discernment of spiritual meanings, all that the human mind can do is to discover, recognize, interpret, and choose.

(2095.1) 196:3.17 Moral evaluation with a religious meaning — spiritual insight — connotes the individual’s choice between good and evil, truth and error, material and spiritual, human and divine, time and eternity. Human survival is in great measure dependent on consecrating the human will to the choosing of those values selected by this spirit-value sorter — the indwelling interpreter and unifier.
GeneParticipant
Jan 29, 2018, 1:05 AM
Been following you and George with interest. Sorry I can’t add much.
This quote below makes me play on words, like “spiritualized” it’s an effect, something that happens after a cause and the cause is us, who are spititual-izing.
And I think that faith vision is the entry level and taken a step farther to “trust” is when our choosing to do gods will becomes part of the spiritual-izing process.
That’s what we do, spiritualize.
I think this has more meaning and value than trying to figure out what becomes spiritualized after the fact.
Isn’t it reasonable to assume if we are exercising faith and trusting god that our minds souls are becoming spiritualized?
Spiritualizing, progressing, rationalizing, praying, reaching up, asking etc – all imply process of doing something, causing something maybe even creating something.
It’s what we do.

Whenever TUB mentions the spiritualized mind, I think they are referring to the soul (117:5.4 below). They tell us the only way we can experience the spiritualized mind is with faith-vision, spiritual insight, or what Jesus described as spiritual eyes. We’re also told that our minds cannot create value, which is a spirit reality. The only thing our material minds can do is discover, recognize, interpret and choose. One might wonder just what it is we’re supposed to be discovering with faith vision if it is not a glimpse of the soul and the spiritual values presented there by the value sorter.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 29, 2018, 12:42 PM

Gene wrote:

And I think that faith vision is the entry level and taken a step farther to “trust” is when our choosing to do gods will becomes part of the spiritual-izing process.

That’s it exactly. But the question is what becomes spiritualized, the adjutant mind or the soul? I would think that spiritualization requires the entire selfhood to participate, not just the adjutant mind. I also think that spiritualization is an actualized reality captured by the spirit gravity circuit which is more than just a pattern or memory. I think it’s a new morontia reality, and the only place it can exist is in the soul. The soul, being alive, will cause repercussions in the Supreme. And as our personalities realitize (become more real) in the psychic circles, they rely more and more on the soul for their identity, because the personality knows it to be more real. There are lots of ways to say this, obviously.

So, the question I have is how do you do God’s will without becoming conscious of your soul? Isn’t that the place where you discover and recognize his will? If that’s not the arena, if God’s will is something the adjutants can urge you to do, then it would only be the upper two, and they are merely the “entry level” as you say. They are the beginning of faith-vision. And we’re told this in the next quote, that the adjutants of worship and wisdom make it possible to experience the superconscious, which is where the Adjuster lives on the borderland of the soul. They are the “entry level,” the gateway to faith-vision or spiritual insight.

130:4.9 Therefore animals (not having worship and wisdom) cannot experience superconsciousness, consciousness of consciousness.

I think you discover God’s will by making it all the way to the soul and there recognize the fact that there’s a person living there. And, the only way to know what that person’s will is, is to love him and get to know him . . . a personal relationship with God, who lives within. It doesn’t matter that the person living in your head/soul is a preperson because Jesus is there too, and when you’ve seen him, you’ve seen the Father. They work as one. The Spirit of Truth is the spirit of both the Father and the Son. And they do tell us it’s easy to exchange our minds for his . . . that would be in the soul, because that’s where he lives.

But I do see a difference between the words spiritize and spiritualize. I explained in earlier posts what I think the difference is. Another way to think of it might be spiritized thoughts are those that are pulled from the material gravity circuit of material mind into the mind gravity circuit awaiting spiritualization by choice-action and inclusion in the spirit gravity circuit. Not sure that is accurate though, just playing with ideas. Wondering if anyone has other ideas to share.
BradlyParticipant
Jan 29, 2018, 11:03 PM

Bonita wrote:

But I do see a difference between the words spiritize and spiritualize. I explained in earlier posts what I think the difference is. Another way to think of it might be spiritized thoughts are those that are pulled from the material gravity circuit of material mind into the mind gravity circuit awaiting spiritualization by choice-action and inclusion in the spirit gravity circuit. Not sure that is accurate though, just playing with ideas. Wondering if anyone has other ideas to share.

There must be a difference or the new terms of spiritized and spiritization would not be introduced. Below are the links to the key word searches for – spiritized OR spiritization – and then – spiritized – and then – spiritualize OR spiritualization – and then – spiritualize – which might help consider “the difference”. Personally….I’m still studying and considering……

https://urassoc.arko.nyc/search/?zoom_sort=2&zoom_query=spiritization+OR+spiritize&zoom_per_page=100&zoom_and=0&zoom_cat%5B%5D=-1 (5 uses)

https://urassoc.arko.nyc/search/?zoom_sort=2&zoom_query=+spiritized&zoom_per_page=100&zoom_and=0&zoom_cat%5B%5D=-1 (5 uses)

https://urassoc.arko.nyc/search/?zoom_sort=2&zoom_query=+spiritualized+OR+spiritualization&zoom_per_page=100&zoom_and=0&zoom_cat%5B%5D=-1 (46 uses)

https://urassoc.arko.nyc/search/?zoom_sort=2&zoom_query=spiritualize&zoom_per_page=100&zoom_and=0&zoom_cat%5B%5D=-1 (7 uses)

Important concepts in our religious experience and the transfer of the seat of our personal identity….we both spiritize and spiritualize. What’s the differences and how are those important? And how might those terms all apply to meaning and value?

100:3.3 (1096.8) In the contemplation of values you must distinguish between that which is value and that which has value. You must recognize the relation between pleasurable activities and their meaningful integration and enhanced realization on ever progressively higher and higher levels of human experience.

100:3.4 (1097.1) Meaning is something which experience adds to value; it is the appreciative consciousness of values. An isolated and purely selfish pleasure may connote a virtual devaluation of meanings, a meaningless enjoyment bordering on relative evil. Values are experiential when realities are meaningful and mentally associated, when such relationships are recognized and appreciated by mind.

100:3.5 (1097.2) Values can never be static; reality signifies change, growth. Change without growth, expansion of meaning and exaltation of value, is valueless — is potential evil. The greater the quality of cosmic adaptation, the more of meaning any experience possesses. Values are not conceptual illusions; they are real, but always they depend on the fact of relationships. Values are always both actual and potential — not what was, but what is and is to be.

100:3.6 (1097.3) The association of actuals and potentials equals growth, the experiential realization of values. But growth is not mere progress. Progress is always meaningful, but it is relatively valueless without growth. The supreme value of human life consists in growth of values, progress in meanings, and realization of the cosmic interrelatedness of both of these experiences. And such an experience is the equivalent of God-consciousness. Such a mortal, while not supernatural, is truly becoming superhuman; an immortal soul is evolving.

I appreciate the discussion of soul and the differences in what happens to create soul, evolve soul, and what happens IN or BY soul. The transfer of our personal identity does indeed appear to be a weaning process, by growth and maturity of soul, from the material mind circuits to the spirit circuit….the spiritization of our very being. And the TA appears inherently engaged in that process. I wonder if spiritualization, like faith, might be something that is less conscious in our mind – a natural response function – while spiritization must be more conscious and self chosen – similar in difference to being born in the spirit (birth of soul) and being reborn by an act of conscious will and purpose? Still studying……

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Mark606Participant
Jan 30, 2018, 12:27 AM

Bonita wrote:

But I do see a difference between the words spiritize and spiritualize.

I like to think the UB narrators attempt to adhere to standard dictionary meanings, except in those cases where they try to portray new concepts with new words.

spiritize – to imbue with a spirit : to implant a spirit in.

spiritualize – to elevate to a spiritual level: to make spiritual: to give a spiritual meaning to or understand in a spiritual sense.
GeneParticipant
Jan 30, 2018, 3:00 AM

Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote:

And I think that faith vision is the entry level and taken a step farther to “trust” is when our choosing to do gods will becomes part of the spiritual-izing process.

That’s it exactly. But the question is what becomes spiritualized, the adjutant mind or the soul?

“I don’t think the Adjutant mind can become more or less spititualized than it is.”

I would think that spiritualization requires the entire selfhood to participate, not just the adjutant mind.

“I think the Mother Spirit engagement is also necessary as well as the spirit of truth working with the adjuster. But the trust our personality gives allows it all to function.”

I also think that spiritualization is an actualized reality captured by the spirit gravity circuit which is more than just a pattern or memory. I think it’s a new morontia reality, and the only place it can exist is in the soul. The soul, being alive, will cause repercussions in the Supreme.

“How would you distinguish an actualized spirit reality from the soul?”

And as our personalities realitize (become more real) in the psychic circles, they rely more and more on the soul for their identity, because the personality knows it to be more real. There are lots of ways to say this, obviously.

So, the question I have is how do you do God’s will without becoming conscious of your soul?

“Not certain about that but maybe this sort of awareness of the soul and doing Gods will is more like a super additive to our existing consciousness? A super consciousness sort of.”

Isn’t that the place where you discover and recognize his will? If that’s not the arena, if God’s will is something the adjutants can urge you to do, then it would only be the upper two, and they are merely the “entry level” as you say. They are the beginning of faith-vision. And we’re told this in the next quote, that the adjutants of worship and wisdom make it possible to experience the superconscious, which is where the Adjuster lives on the borderland of the soul. They are the “entry level,” the gateway to faith-vision or spiritual insight.

“Interesting to think about exactly where the Adjuster really lives: let’s say as an entity it lives above the mind while it’s influence happens in the mind associated with the 6th level of meaning and the 3rd cosmic intuition? Something we need to transcend, use the highest part of our spiritized mind, above the mind in order to communicate effectively.”

“And how about spiritualizing as compared to spiritize and spiritized? It describes what we are trying to do.”

130:4.9 Therefore animals (not having worship and wisdom) cannot experience superconsciousness, consciousness of consciousness.

I think you discover God’s will by making it all the way to the soul and there recognize the fact that there’s a person living there. And, the only way to know what that person’s will is, is to love him and get to know him . . . a personal relationship with God, who lives within. It doesn’t matter that the person living in your head/soul is a preperson because Jesus is there too, and when you’ve seen him, you’ve seen the Father. They work as one. The Spirit of Truth is the spirit of both the Father and the Son. And they do tell us it’s easy to exchange our minds for his . . . that would be in the soul, because that’s where he lives.

But I do see a difference between the words spiritize and spiritualize. I explained in earlier posts what I think the difference is. Another way to think of it might be spiritized thoughts are those that are pulled from the material gravity circuit of material mind into the mind gravity circuit awaiting spiritualization by choice-action and inclusion in the spirit gravity circuit. Not sure that is accurate though, just playing with ideas. Wondering if anyone has other ideas to share.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 30, 2018, 8:39 AM

Gene wrote:

“How would you distinguish an actualized spirit reality from the soul?”

I think an actualized spirit reality is the soul. It’s the fruits of the spirit which are the character traits of divinity we take with us into eternity.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 30, 2018, 9:00 AM

Bradly wrote:

I wonder if spiritualization, like faith, might be something that is less conscious in our mind – a natural response function – while spiritization must be more conscious and self chosen – similar in difference to being born in the spirit (birth of soul) and being reborn by an act of conscious will and purpose?

Yeah, I think spiritualization is the process of spiritual growth, and it would be unconscious. But I don’t know if the process of spiritization is conscious. I don’t think so, because it’s done by the Adjuster. But I do think we have to consciously choose the spiritized option whenever faced with a decision. Which means we’re supposed to learn how to discover and recognize the option deputized with the most spiritual power, the spiritized option. They describe that as spiritual insight, I think. Still working on it.

p1112:3 101:6.7 Revelation teaches mortal man that, to start such a magnificent and intriguing adventure through space by means of the progression of time, he should begin by the organization of knowledge into idea-decisions; next, mandate wisdom to labor unremittingly at its noble task of transforming self-possessed ideas into increasingly practical but nonetheless supernal ideals, even those concepts which are so reasonable as ideas and so logical as ideals that the Adjuster dares so to combine and spiritize them as to render them available for such association in the finite mind as will constitute them the actual human complement thus made ready for the action of the Truth Spirit of the Sons, the time-space manifestations of Paradise truth—universal truth. The co-ordination of idea-decisions, logical ideals, and divine truth constitutes the possession of a righteous character, the prerequisite for mortal admission to the ever-expanding and increasingly spiritual realities of the morontia worlds.

Anyway, we’re supposed to be organizing all our knowledge into ideas and ideals, which is why it’s so nice to be able to share ideas. Thanks.

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