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Judgement

100 posts · 8 participants · started Jan 20, 2015, 1:07 AM

  1. Your ideas about anger are misplaced.  Anger is a mental poison.

    Yes. Anger is a mental poison. Are lowly humans the only ones capable of anger? Anyone with a mind is at risk.

    At which order of being is anger no longer able to enter a mind? We are told that God is not angry or wrathful but how far down do we go until anger is a possibility? Does wisdom and majesty preclude anger?

    My best guess is that parental sensibilities is a safeguard against the kind of anger that is wrathful. Somehow, we can strike out at a brother but are not quick against a son or daughter. Cain killed Abel and Eve forgave Cain.

    110:1:5    All physical poisons greatly retard the efforts of the Adjuster to exalt the material mind, while the mental poisons of fear, anger, envy, jealousy, suspicion, and intolerance likewise tremendously interfere with the spiritual progress of the evolving soul.

    Gabriel has no Adjuster. Gabriel is a father to no one.

    149:4:2   “Anger is a material manifestation which represents, in a general way, the measure of the failure of the spiritual nature to gain control of the combined intellectual and physical natures. Anger indicates your lack of tolerant brotherly love plus your lack of self-respect and self-control. Anger depletes the health, debases the mind, and handicaps the spirit teacher of man’s soul. Have you not read in the Scriptures that ‘wrath kills the foolish man,’ and that man ‘tears himself in his anger‘? That ‘he who is slow of wrath is of great understanding,’ while ‘he who is hasty of temper exalts folly’? You all know that ‘a soft answer turns away wrath,’ and how ‘grievous words stir up anger.’ ‘Discretion defers anger,’ while ‘he who has no control over his own self is like a defenseless city without walls.’ ‘Wrath is cruel and anger is outrageous.’ ‘Angry men stir up strife, while the furious multiply their transgressions.’ ‘Be not hasty in spirit, for anger rests in the bosom of fools.’” Before Jesus ceased speaking, he said further: “Let your hearts be so dominated by love that your spirit guide will have little trouble in delivering you from the tendency to give vent to those outbursts of animal anger which are inconsistent with the status of divine sonship.”

    Jesus spoke these words as Michael to an entire Universe of all Local universe orders of beings. He spoke as Michael, Sovereign of Nebadon. He stuck around for some time after technically completing his bestowal. He spoke to all of his flock in a vast universe.

    Michael well knew that Gabriel had plans to prosecute the rebels and showed his concern in many things that he admonished the Apostles for. “Judge not…”, the parable of the prodigal son, and the statement above (149:4.2) regarding anger and wrath.

    Anger is the failure of the spiritual nature. Anger is inconsistent with the status of divine sonship. Although inconsistent with divine sonship, anger is the failure of the spiritual nature, and none of the divine sons are totally escaping of it. It is a mystery to me that you place the celestials on such high pedestals that they somehow cannot experience anger. Jesus was to experience anger as part of being human. He overcame it in his spiritual nature. But it served Michael to recognize anger in his children. Gabriel is Michael’s first born. In Gabriel, Michael recognized the disdain he had for the rebels and the eagerness he displayed for their eventual annihilation. Michael’s concern for his first born was real and touching.

  2. emanny3003 wrote:  At which order of being is anger no longer able to enter a mind?
    Have you read this:
    “Do you not know it is from the heart that there come forth evil thoughts, wicked projects of murder, theft, and adulteries, together with jealousy, pride, anger, revenge, railings, and false witness? And it is just such things that defile men . . . .” 153:3:5
    Anger, among other things, defiles men.  Fortunately, anger isn’t a terminal problem. A soft answer turns away wrath.  Wrath kills the foolish man.  Old Testament, but cogent.  Anger is like a stone hurled into a hornet’s nest.
    But iniquity?
    The very conflicting presence of truth and untruth, fact and falsehood, constitutes the potentiality of error. The deliberate choice of evil constitutes sin; the willful rejection of truth is error; the persistent pursuit of sin and error is iniquity. 54:0:2
    Error suggests lack of intellectual keenness; evil, deficiency of wisdom; sin, abject spiritual poverty; but iniquity is indicative of vanishing personality control.    67:1:5

    The greatest punishment (in reality an inevitable consequence) for wrongdoing and deliberate rebellion against the government of God is loss of existence as an individual subject of that government. The final result of wholehearted sin is annihilation. In the last analysis, such sin-identified individuals have destroyed themselves by becoming wholly unreal through their embrace of iniquity. The factual disappearance of such a creature is, however, always delayed until the ordained order of justice current in that universe has been fully complied with. 2:3:2

  3. (36.7) 2:3.2

    How futile to make puerile appeals

    to such a God to modify his changeless decrees so that we can avoid the just consequences of the operation of his wise natural laws and righteous spiritual mandates!

    “Be not deceived; God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap.”

    53:8.4 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding

    >the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction

    of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.

    53:9.4Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabrielvs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations. when there occurred the first hearing of

    Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation

    of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.

  4. That is why I fear for Gabriel for the anger I sense in the following quotes….

     

    Not getting the anger or hate angle here at all.  Nor the mistrust of universe administration and its multi-dimensional approach to fairness, mercy, and justice.  The Divine Counselor is the final determiner of truth, intent, loyalty, and capacity for mercy reception, not Gabriel.  And Gabriel followed protocol as this was not the first “rodeo” of rebellion, even in Nebadon – Michael’s second bestowal was also during a system rebellion…so there is a form of standardized procedure for such responses.  As to a swift response by an angry Gabriel or “mob” mentality:

    (604.3) 53:4.1 The Lucifer manifesto was issued at the annual conclave of Satania on the sea of glass, in the presence of the assembled hosts of Jerusem, on the last day of the year, about two hundred thousand years ago, Urantia time. Satan proclaimed that worship could be accorded the universal forces — physical, intellectual, and spiritual — but that allegiance could be acknowledged only to the actual and present ruler, Lucifer, the “friend of men and angels” and the “God of liberty.”

    (605.1) 53:4.4 While there had been two previous rebellions in Nebadon, they were in distant constellations. Lucifer held that these insurrections were unsuccessful because the majority of the intelligences failed to follow their leaders. He contended that “majorities rule,” that “mind is infallible.” The freedom allowed him by the universe rulers apparently sustained many of his nefarious contentions. He defied all his superiors; yet they apparently took no note of his doings. He was given a free hand to prosecute his seductive plan without let or hindrance.

    (605.2) 53:4.5 All the merciful delays of justice Lucifer pointed to as evidence of the inability of the government of the Paradise Sons to stop the rebellion. He would openly defy and arrogantly challenge Michael, Immanuel, and the Ancients of Days and then point to the fact that no action ensued as positive evidence of the impotency of the universe and the superuniverse governments.

    (605.3) 53:4.6 Gabriel was personally present throughout all these disloyal proceedings and only announced that he would, in due time, speak for Michael, and that all beings would be left free and unmolested in their choice; that the “government of the Sons for the Father desired only that loyalty and devotion which was voluntary, wholehearted, and sophistry-proof.”

    (605.4) 53:4.7 Lucifer was permitted fully to establish and thoroughly to organize his rebel government before Gabriel made any effort to contest the right of secession or to counterwork the rebel propaganda. But the Constellation Fathers immediately confined the action of these disloyal personalities to the system of Satania. Nevertheless, this period of delay was a time of great trial and testing to the loyal beings of all Satania. All was chaotic for a few years, and there was great confusion on the mansion worlds.

     

    After this initial period of patience and forbearance, only Lucifer “administrative” authority was removed and by due process and not by Gabriel.  Gabriel acted on behalf of Michael and all others in authority and did nothing rash or hateful.  This distrust by you of Divinely organized and managed administrative response to rebellion just seems so blind and arrogant considering how calm and even handed and patient the response.  Gabriel seems only to have acted with great wisdom….and it is his position to appeal for all administrative and judicial remedies as are available to him in the situation, and again, not a new situation at all, but the third for him (at least).  To me it is dangerous to doubt and fear our very safety and the motives and behaviors of our celestial friends who live to serve Universe Reality.

     

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  5. Not getting the anger or hate angle here at all.  Nor the mistrust of universe administration and its multi-dimensional approach to fairness, mercy, and justice.

    I refer you to my last post in “Loyalty”. You are not getting the anger angle because you have placed Gabriel above anger. I most certainly trust the safeguard mechanisms of the Universe administrations because they effectively curtailed Gabriel’s attempted hasty action against the rebels at the start of the rebellion.

    Gabriel seems only to have acted with great wisdom….

    If you read carefully you will see that Gabriel attempted to unwisely act when Michael stood aloof, as advised by Immanuel. Gabriel went against the wisdom of Michael and Immanuel in his disloyalty to them. The fact that Gabriel acted at all is evidence of his disloyalty. Wisdom would have mandated INACTION, as Michael and Immanuel advised.

  6. What “hasty” action?  He calmly stood by for YEARS while allowing loyalties to be self determined by each.  The removal of administrative authority from Lucifer was not by Gabriel, not the isolation or quarantine either.  Nothing rash or personal or summary about it.  Your fears are well demonstrated but not at all substantiated.  I find such suspicion of Gabriel misplaced as well as your fears.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  7. If you read carefully you will see that Gabriel attempted to unwisely act when Michael stood aloof, as advised by Immanuel. Gabriel went against the wisdom of Michael and Immanuel in his disloyalty to them. The fact that Gabriel acted at all is evidence of his disloyalty. Wisdom would have mandated INACTION, as Michael and Immanuel advised.

     

    Your interpretation is up to you….but your claim that Gabriel is disloyal to Michael and acted against his wishes is absurd to me and according to the same text.  You accuse Gabriel, not the UB.  Dangerous stuff, such fears and anxieties and distrust, dangerous.  This says otherwise about Gabriel’s standing and full authority and patience and forbearance:

    (605.3) 53:4.6 Gabriel was personally present throughout all these disloyal proceedings and only announced that he would, in due time, speak for Michael, and that all beings would be left free and unmolested in their choice; that the “government of the Sons for the Father desired only that loyalty and devotion which was voluntary, wholehearted, and sophistry-proof.”

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  8. Mara wrote:  It’s a mystery to me why you would attribute human emotion – anger- to Gabriel.

    BINGO! and SPOT ON!!

    Anger is an animal emotion.  The Bright and Morning Star is not of animal origin.  He is of divine origin and is therefore only capable of divine emotions.  What are divine emotions? They are:

    Loving service, unselfish devotion, courageous loyalty, sincere fairness, enlightened honesty, confiding trust, merciful ministry, unfailing goodness, forgiving tolerance, enduring peace, love, joy, long suffering, gentleness, faith, meekness and temperance.

     

  9. Bradly wrote: Gabriel seems only to have acted with great wisdom . . .
    Amen to that.  Not only great wisdom, but divine wisdom.  Gabriel is of singular majesty and wisdom.
    33:4.2  Only one such being of wisdom and majesty is brought forth in each local universe.
  10. Bradly wrote: Your fears are well demonstrated but not at all substantiated.  I find such suspicion of Gabriel misplaced as well as your fears.

    And let us not forget that fear is an animal emotion and a mental poison (110:1.5).  Those who live in fear are mentally unbalanced and animalistic because it leads to “anger, envy, jealousy, suspicion, and intolerance”. Humans are the only ones who suffer from fear.  Not even angels, who are so very close to us, experience fear.

    113:2.5 The only emotion actuating you which is somewhat difficult for them to comprehend is the legacy of animal fear that bulks so large in the mental life of the average inhabitant of Urantia. The angels really find it hard to understand why you will so persistently allow your higher intellectual powers, even your religious faith, to be so dominated by fear, so thoroughly demoralized by the thoughtless panic of dread and anxiety.

  11. The attitude of fear regarding our safety or fairness in God’s creation is disturbing to me.  The accusation that Gabriel is, was, or is even capable of anger, revenge, etc. is the seed of doubt whose harvest will not be good and can only serve to feed the fear regarding fairness and safety.  The suggestion that the response to this rebellion is subject to any one individual, even Michael’s first born, is inaccurate to say the least.  It might be interesting to outline the entire administrative “response team” that is charged with the application of mercy and justice just to identify how many different beings of how many different orders and that hierarchy engaged in that response.

    It appears to me that Van may have been the first to defy the claims of Lucifer and Caligastia that they were now God and subject to the worship of their wards and their associates.  And the Most Highs were involved from the first utterance of rebellion and the actual claim that there is no God.  I see only process….slow and steady and restrained and evolved by an entire staff of organized celestials to consider how best to respond.  Notice the role of the Most Highs here regarding our planetary situation:

    (755.4) 67:2.2 The presentation of this astounding demand was followed by the masterly appeal of Van, chairman of the supreme council of co-ordination. This distinguished administrator and able jurist branded the proposed course of Caligastia as an act bordering on planetary rebellion and appealed to his conferees to abstain from all participation until an appeal could be taken to Lucifer, the System Sovereign of Satania; and he won the support of the entire staff. Accordingly, appeal was taken to Jerusem, and forthwith came back the orders designating Caligastia as supreme sovereign on Urantia and commanding absolute and unquestioning allegiance to his mandates. And it was in reply to this amazing message that the noble Van made his memorable address of seven hours’ length in which he formally drew his indictment of Daligastia, Caligastia, and Lucifer as standing in contempt of the sovereignty of the universe of Nebadon; and he appealed to the Most Highs of Edentia for support and confirmation.

    (755.7) 67:2.5 Seraphim and cherubim and other celestial beings were involved in the decisions of this bitter struggle, this long and sinful conflict. Many superhuman groups that chanced to be on Urantia at the time of its isolation were detained here and, like the seraphim and their associates, were compelled to choose between sin and righteousness — between the ways of Lucifer and the will of the unseen Father.

    (756.1) 67:2.6 For more than seven years this struggle continued. Not until every personality concerned had made a final decision, would or did the authorities of Edentia interfere or intervene. Not until then did Van and his loyal associates receive vindication and release from their prolonged anxiety and intolerable suspense.

    And the Most Highs continued in their hands on administrative role:

    (605.8) 53:5.4 Since Michael elected to remain aloof from the actual warfare of the Lucifer rebellion, Gabriel called his personal staff together on Edentia and, in counsel with the Most Highs, elected to assume command of the loyal hosts of Satania. Michael remained on Salvington while Gabriel proceeded to Jerusem, and establishing himself on the sphere dedicated to the Father — the same Universal Father whose personality Lucifer and Satan had questioned — in the presence of the forgathered hosts of loyal personalities, he displayed the banner of Michael, the material emblem of the Trinity government of all creation, the three azure blue concentric circles on a white background.

    (181.6) 15:13.6 The administrators of the minor sector governments are under the immediate jurisdiction of the major sector rulers. The Recents of Days receive all reports of observations and co-ordinate all recommendations which come up to a superuniverse from the Unions of Days who are stationed as Trinity observers and advisers on the headquarters spheres of the local universes and from the Faithfuls of Days who are similarly attached to the councils of the Most Highs at the headquarters of the constellations. All such reports are transmitted to the Perfections of Days on the major sectors, subsequently to be passed on to the courts of the Ancients of Days. Thus the Trinity regime extends from the constellations of the local universes up to the headquarters of the superuniverse. The local system headquarters do not have Trinity representatives.

    Of Uversa:

    (182.1) 15:14.2 Orvonton, the seventh superuniverse, the one to which your local universe belongs, is known chiefly because of its tremendous and lavish bestowal of merciful ministry to the mortals of the realms. It is renowned for the manner in which justice prevails as tempered by mercy and power rules as conditioned by patience, while the sacrifices of time are freely made to secure the stabilization of eternity. Orvonton is a universe demonstration of love and mercy.

    And while there are multiple levels of beings and decision makers and process between Van, the Most Highs, and Gabriel, there are many more between Gabriel and the Divine Counselor…..the end of the line so to speak:

    (218.2) 19:4.4 Whenever and wherever a Universal Censor is present, then and there is the judgment of Deity. And since the Censors always render their verdicts in liaison with Perfectors of Wisdom and Divine Counselors, such decisions embrace the united wisdom, counsel, and judgment of the Paradise Trinity. In this juridical trio the Perfector of Wisdom would be the “I was,” the Divine Counselor the “I will be,” but the Universal Censor is always “I am.”

    (218.3) 19:4.5 The Censors are universe totaling personalities. When a thousand witnesses have given testimony — or a million — when the voice of wisdom has spoken and the counsel of divinity has recorded, when the testimony of ascendant perfection has been added, then the Censor functions, and there is immediately revealed an unerring and divine totaling of all that has transpired; and such a disclosure represents the divine conclusion, the sum and substance of a final and perfect decision. Therefore, when a Censor has spoken, no one else may speak, for the Censor has depicted the true and unmistakable total of all that has gone before. When he speaks, there is no appeal.

    The first 5 Papers are authored by such a one:

    (32.1) 1:7.9 [Presented by a Divine Counselor, a member of a group of celestial personalities assigned by the Ancients of Days on Uversa, the headquarters of the seventh superuniverse, to supervise those portions of this forthcoming revelation which have to do with affairs beyond the borders of the local universe of Nebadon. I am commissioned to sponsor those papers portraying the nature and attributes of God because I represent the highest source of information available for such a purpose on any inhabited world. I have served as a Divine Counselor in all seven of the superuniverses and have long resided at the Paradise center of all things. Many times have I enjoyed the supreme pleasure of a sojourn in the immediate personal presence of the Universal Father. I portray the reality and truth of the Father’s nature and attributes with unchallengeable authority; I know whereof I speak.]

    Paper 1 – The Universal Father
    Paper 2 – The Nature of God
    Paper 3 – The Attributes of God
    Paper 4 – God’s Relation to the Universe
    Paper 5 – God’s Relation to the Individual

    (71.7) 5:6.12 Concerning those personalities who are not Adjuster indwelt: The attribute of choice-liberty is also bestowed by the Universal Father, and such persons are likewise embraced in the great circuit of divine love, the personality circuit of the Universal Father. God provides for the sovereign choice of all true personalities. No personal creature can be coerced into the eternal adventure; the portal of eternity opens only in response to the freewill choice of the freewill sons of the God of free will.

    (72.1) 5:6.13 And this represents my efforts to present the relation of the living God to the children of time. And when all is said and done, I can do nothing more helpful than to reiterate that God is your universe Father, and that you are all his planetary children.

    (72.2) 5:6.14 [This is the fifth and last of the series presenting the narrative of the Universal Father by a Divine Counselor of Uversa.]

     

    To suspect, to doubt, to fear…..is to disconnect oneself from reality and from truth.  Are we done here yet?  ;-)

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  12. Are we done here yet?

     

    Apologies Bonita…I did not mean done with the topic which I find very interesting, even compelling; I meant with the rebellion adjudication process only.  Our need to discern and measure and gain wisdom requires judgment to be sure.  I look forward to more discussion on the topic at hand.  Thank you all.

    :good:

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  13. To suspect, to doubt, to fear…..is to disconnect oneself from reality and from truth.  Are we done here yet?

    No we are not. Gabriel took action against the rebels and was stopped. He knew that Michael and Immanuel wanted to have the Local universe administration to remain aloof. Gabriel defied Michael and Immanuel and was reigned in.

    (605.8) 53:5.4 Since Michael elected to remain aloof from the actual warfare of the Lucifer rebellion, Gabriel called his personal staff together on Edentia and, in counsel with the Most Highs, elected to assume command of the loyal hosts of Satania. Michael remained on Salvington while Gabriel proceeded to Jerusem, and establishing himself on the sphere dedicated to the Father — the same Universal Father whose personality Lucifer and Satan had questioned — in the presence of the forgathered hosts of loyal personalities, he displayed the banner of Michael, the material emblem of the Trinity government of all creation, the three azure blue concentric circles on a white background.

    Since Michael would not act, and for good reason, Gabriel went around Michael and spoke with the Vorondadeks. He “elected to assume command”. Gabriel then displayed the banner of Michael, and this was to “falsely proclaim” that he had Michael’s and Immanuel’s blessing, when he did NOT.

    Read you own post, Bradly, and read it more carefully. Remove those shades you wear in order to see more clearly.

  14. Bradly wrote:  The attitude of fear regarding our safety or fairness in God’s creation is disturbing to me.

    Me too. Michael petitioned to have the lunatics locked up in order to make sure we are safe.  He sent his Spirit of Truth to protect us from their sophistry.  He is busy working on stabilizing his universe by eliminating confusion.  That which will not coordinate with cosmic reality will be destroyed.  That is the way of the universe and it is ultimately fair.

    p241:1 21:5.4  The elevation of a sevenfold bestowal Son to the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe means the beginning of the end of agelong uncertainty and relative confusion. Subsequent to this event, that which cannot be sometime spiritualized will eventually be disorganized; that which cannot be sometime co-ordinated with cosmic reality will eventually be destroyed. When the provisions of endless mercy and nameless patience have been exhausted in an effort to win the loyalty and devotion of the will creatures of the realms, justice and righteousness will prevail. That which mercy cannot rehabilitate justice will eventually annihilate.

  15. Since Michael would not act, and for good reason, Gabriel went around Michael and spoke with the Vorondadeks. He “elected to assume command”. Gabriel then displayed the banner of Michael, and this was to “falsely proclaim” that he had Michael’s and Immanuel’s blessing, when he did NOT.

    Just as a thought experiment, let’s assume you are correct (I don’t personally think so, but for the sake of enhancing our understanding of one anothers perspectives).  What is your agenda in posting these beliefs?  What do you hope will happen?  Are you trying to win over readers/participants on this forum to a particular belief about Gabriel?  To what end?

  16. Me too. Michael petitioned to have the lunatics locked up in order to make sure we are safe.  He sent his Spirit of Truth to protect us from their sophistry.  He is busy working on stabilizing his universe by eliminating confusion.  That which will not coordinate with cosmic reality will be destroyed.  That is the way of the universe and it is ultimately fair.

    Answer this for me then Bonita. Why was the “lunatic” Satan allowed to roam free until recently?

    Is it at all possible that the others were interned for their own protection? This is known as protective custody. Is it possible that Michael was keeping his warring children apart so that no harm will come till full mercy and adjudication is completed?

    Is it possible that Satan was the only one of the rebels that did not accept mercy? Is it possible that Satan was used to test the remainder of the rebel planets that were on the fence? Perhaps Satan found himself alone in the end and that is why Christ Michael said “Get thee behind me Satan”. Perhaps he did not mention the others because he triumphant at bringing them back to the fold.

  17. Just as a thought experiment, let’s assume you are correct (I don’t personally think so, but for the sake of enhancing our understanding of one anothers perspectives).  What is your agenda in posting these beliefs?  What do you hope will happen?  Are you trying to win over readers/participants on this forum to a particular belief about Gabriel?  To what end?

    My only agenda is to search out truth.

    I hope and know that God’s will be done.

    I am selling nothing, not even TUB. TUB is perfectly honest. No Urantia Book author is a liar. I can only state that all persons, save absolute persons, have biases and point out this fact.

    To what end? There is no end to truth. The search for God is endless in eternity.

  18. Bradly wrote:  Apologies Bonita…I did not mean done with the topic which I find very interesting, even compelling; I meant with the rebellion adjudication process only.

    Hey, no problem.  I’ve been done for a while now.  The doors of my soul are completely sealed to such sophistry. It amazes me how close it comes to the Manifesto ideology.  Remarkable, actually. One wonders what the consequences of such erroneous thinking might be.  They say that it is experienced only on the level of actual performance (p761:3 67:7.4).  That would be this forum, right?

  19. Keryn wrote:Just as a thought experiment, let’s assume you are correct (I don’t personally think so, but for the sake of enhancing our understanding of one anothers perspectives).  What is your agenda in posting these beliefs?  What do you hope will happen?  Are you trying to win over readers/participants on this forum to a particular belief about Gabriel?  To what end?
    Great question Keryn.  Really great.  I’ve been wondering the same thing.  It seems to me that whenever the rebellion comes up chaos ensues.  Sometimes I wonder if that’s the plan, as if Lucifer’s minions are still wreaking havoc.  At least only one rebellion addict has been swayed by the sophistry; the rest seem pretty solidly closed to it.
  20. Sometimes I wonder if that’s the plan, as if Lucifer’s minions are still wreaking havoc.

    I think they would be pleased to have the UB fail.  I am sure they would be pleased to have key people stumble and fail, entertain doubts or go off the rail.  They are probably happy when others stumble too.  But things have to be very dire in a person’s mind I think to where  they have willfully and persistently pursued sin and error and when they have rejected truth or twisted it.  Remember this one concerning  the shadow of a hair’s turning:

    :

    48:6:33   Law is life itself and not the rules of its conduct. Evil is a transgression of law, not a violation of the rules of conduct pertaining to life, which is the law. Falsehood is not a matter of narration technique but something premeditated as a perversion of truth. The creation of new pictures out of old facts, the restatement of parental life in the lives of offspring — these are the artistic triumphs of truth. The shadow of a hair’s turning, premeditated for an untrue purpose, the slightest twisting or perversion of that which is principle — these constitute falseness. But the fetish of factualized truth, fossilized truth, the iron band of so-called unchanging truth, holds one blindly in a closed circle of cold fact. One can be technically right as to fact and everlastingly wrong in the truth.

     

    Regarding justice:

    104:2:5   For example: The Master, when on earth, admonished his followers that justice is never a personal act; it is always a group function. Neither do the Gods, as persons, administer justice. But they perform this very function as a collective whole, as the Paradise Trinity.

     

     

     

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