I think we should get back to the question: What is judgment?
The dictionary tells us that judgment is merely the ability to make decisions, and to form opinions. It is not an accident that the second adjutant mind spirit, the spirit of understanding, provides us with the gift of rapid judgment. It appears to be essential to the coordination and association of ideas. The lower animals make such judgments based upon experience, but with the presence of personality and the indwelling spirit, humans are capable of making rapid judgments concerning morality, meanings and values. It is a fundamental part of our psyche.36:5.7 2. The spirit of understanding – the impulse of co-ordination, the spontaneous and apparently automatic association of ideas. This is the gift of the co-ordination of acquired knowledge, the phenomenon of quick reasoning, rapid judgment, and prompt decision.
Jesus said, “Judge not.” He did not say, “Judgment not.” The admonition against judging is akin to the golden rule, which instructs us to treat others as Jesus would treat them. He explained that the spirit with which we judge others is the same spirit with which we will be judged; so, we should only judge as we would like to be judged ourselves. Or better yet, as a loving Father, would judge. Likewise, we are told to forgive others as Jesus would forgive them. The UB explains in the following quotes how forgiveness relates to the golden rule.
Judgement
100 posts · 8 participants · started Jan 20, 2015, 1:07 AM
It’s time you grow some ‘limbs’, tadpole.
It is true I have much to learn in this stage of my infancy and my clumsiness well demonstrates my lack of grace in that effort to become that which is my potential to be. And your lash may sting for a moment but only serves to encourage me further in my efforts to identify with spirit and allow such attacks on my character to teach me how better to respond, a more replete response-ability to all that comes my way. I always found this quote inspiring to a tadpole:
(1931.5) 178:1.14 You are not to be passive mystics or colorless ascetics; you should not become dreamers and drifters, supinely trusting in a fictitious Providence to provide even the necessities of life. You are indeed to be gentle in your dealings with erring mortals, patient in your intercourse with ignorant men, and forbearing under provocation; but you are also to be valiant in defense of righteousness, mighty in the promulgation of truth, and aggressive in the preaching of this gospel of the kingdom, even to the ends of the earth.
May the valiant never shrink from their loyalties to truth, beauty, and goodness (despite confusions, errors, and failure along the way).
Bradly aka fanofVan
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
- tas wrote: Bradly – you’re a gem!
Ditto that!
(1096.4) 100:2.7 Jesus portrayed the profound surety of the God-knowing mortal when he said: “To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?” Temporal securities are vulnerable, but spiritual sureties are impregnable. When the flood tides of human adversity, selfishness, cruelty, hate, malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit, which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal God.
(1096.5) 100:2.8 After such spiritual attainment, whether secured by gradual growth or specific crisis, there occurs a new orientation of personality as well as the development of a new standard of values. Such spirit-born individuals are so remotivated in life that they can calmly stand by while their fondest ambitions perish and their keenest hopes crash; they positively know that such catastrophes are but the redirecting cataclysms which wreck one’s temporal creations preliminary to the rearing of the more noble and enduring realities of a new and more sublime level of universe attainment.
Even tadpoles may enjoy faith in God’s power, purpose, plan, and love and find great joy in this life.
(1094.6) 100:1.4 …Loyal persons are growing persons, and growth is an impressive and inspiring reality. Live loyally today — grow — and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
- Bradly wrote: May the valiant never shrink from their loyalties to truth, beauty, and goodness (despite confusions, errors, and failure along the way).
I love that quote too Bradly, which is why I get myself into so many debates. Someone’s got to do it. I also really like this quote:
p1140:2 103:8.2 The confusion about the experience of the certainty of God arises out of the dissimilar interpretations and relations of that experience by separate individuals and by different races of men. The experiencing of God may be wholly valid, but the discourse about God, being intellectual and philosophical, is divergent and oftentimes confusingly fallacious.
I would think that the ability to recognize fallaciousness is a developmental achievement since we know that confusional attitudes are evidence of a lack of cooperation with the Adjuster (110:3.5). The more we learn to cooperate, the less confused we become; or, the more assured we become. Truth is inconcussible (118:3.3).
- Bradly wrote: The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole.
Should we start a thread on what it means to live loyally? That could be fun, no?
101:7.4 The fourth level of philosophy attains freedom from all conventional and traditional handicaps and dares to think, act, and live honestly, loyally, fearlessly, and truthfully.
Hypocrisy is the hallmark of the hypocrite. Such as carrying on and on and making such noise about “judging not” and then turning around to dump judgments on others about their inner life and motivations. IMO, very absurd judgments. Bradly – you’re a gem!
I suggest that you take it up with the Queen Bee, drone. (I refer you to Bonitas words in the previous post)
Some of you have highjacked TUB to become elitists snobs. It is shameful and pitiful that some of you have made an idol of such a gift. You use it for your self ambitions of snobbery and self aggrandizement.
To Bonita and Bradly, your spots are showing, Perdy and Pongo. Tas, as one of the puppies, your spots are soon to come.
BTW Pongo, is it not precious to be worshiped by tas?
I understand that this reply has been reported for inappropriate content. Can I offer mitigating circumstances? Bonita and Bradly say that I am mentally ill and crazy. They say that I need help. Can this excuse some of my atrocious commentary? Will this give me special treatment? My dog ate my medication. Funny thing, he hasn’t barked in a week.
Bradly, you fail to see anyones perspective but your own, or possibly Bonita’s. You don’t listen and you bear false witness. You are a faker and a phony. You are afraid of your own shadow. Keep hiding in your obfuscations. Your hypocrisy is overwhelming. Your idolatry of self ambitions is now legendary. You cannot discuss anything without parroting TUB. Your entire mind has been taken over with slogans and creeds and quotes. You cannot think for yourself and that is a real pity. You cannot recognize the hypocrisy in almost every statement you write that is not a repetition or a quote of TUB.
Your “concern” for my well being and opinion of my character is rather self evident Louis and this is but one example of it. I find your justifications telling and insincere both. And I find much of your posts here on “Judgement” and “..the era immediately to follow” quite an example of one being judgmental. I think this tadpole will look elsewhere for any personal advice…or character assessment….thanks anyway.
(1571.4) 140:3.17 “You are commissioned to save men, not to judge them. At the end of your earth life you will all expect mercy; therefore do I require of you during your mortal life that you show mercy to all of your brethren in the flesh. Make not the mistake of trying to pluck a mote out of your brother’s eye when there is a beam in your own eye. Having first cast the beam out of your own eye, you can the better see to cast the mote out of your brother’s eye.
I’ll tend to my own beams, whilst you look after yours……..
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
It’s time you grow some ‘limbs’, tadpole.
It is true I have much to learn in this stage of my infancy and my clumsiness well demonstrates my lack of grace in that effort to become that which is my potential to be. And your lash may sting for a moment but only serves to encourage me further in my efforts to identify with spirit and allow such attacks on my character to teach me how better to respond, a more replete response-ability to all that comes my way. I always found this quote inspiring to a tadpole:
(1931.5) 178:1.14 You are not to be passive mystics or colorless ascetics; you should not become dreamers and drifters, supinely trusting in a fictitious Providence to provide even the necessities of life. You are indeed to be gentle in your dealings with erring mortals, patient in your intercourse with ignorant men, and forbearing under provocation; but you are also to be valiant in defense of righteousness, mighty in the promulgation of truth, and aggressive in the preaching of this gospel of the kingdom, even to the ends of the earth.
May the valiant never shrink from their loyalties to truth, beauty, and goodness (despite confusions, errors, and failure along the way).
Bradly aka fanofVan
Bradly, Bradly, Bradly. How long must I strive with you? It is fine and good to humble yourself before God, but wholly unbecoming to humble yourself before your brothers. You continue this self referencing and that is inappropriate.
God is no respecter of persons, yet you insist that you are special. Why do you sell yourself short when not even God presumes to do it. Are you a better judge of yourself than God? Can you not see that I do not lash out at you, but only throw cold glasses of water at your face so that you awake? You are so concerned about your character that you forget that character grow without any attention from you. Why must you insist on self flagellation?
Lets cut a deal, Bradly. I will stop striving with you if you stop striving with yourself. Stop worrying about your status as a tadpole. You do not determine your status.
I find these comments to be helpful in pondering a better method of instruction.
P.1456 – §0 [Jesus] spent much of his spare time for almost six months in intimate association with these religious teachers [on his sojourn at Rome]. And this was his method of instruction: Never once did he attack their errors or even mention the flaws in their teachings. In each case he would select the truth in what they taught and then proceed so to embellish and illuminate this truth in their minds that in a very short time this enhancement of the truth effectively crowded out the associated error; and thus were these Jesus-taught men and women prepared for the subsequent recognition of additional and similar truths in the teachings of the early Christian missionaries. It was this early acceptance of the teachings of the gospel preachers which gave that powerful impetus to the rapid spread of Christianity in Rome and from there throughout the empire.
My highlight is on how error is crowded out. Build up what rings true to you, and forget the rest because it will be crowded out in due time. Slings and arrows aren’t helpful. Fighting with your brother or sister aren’t helpful.
Peace, be still in your soul.
Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who have trespassed against us.
Mortal man 3:5:13 must live “. . .face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor.” Conquer the incessant clamoring.
Thanks Mara. Here’s a paradox for us all to consider:
(1134.2) 103:5.4 But man’s interpretation of these early conflicts between the ego-will and the other-than-self-will is not always dependable. Only a fairly well unified personality can arbitrate the multiform contentions of the ego cravings and the budding social consciousness. The self has rights as well as one’s neighbors. Neither has exclusive claims upon the attention and service of the individual. Failure to resolve this problem gives origin to the earliest type of human guilt feelings.
(1134.3) 103:5.5 Human happiness is achieved only when the ego desire of the self and the altruistic urge of the higher self (divine spirit) are co-ordinated and reconciled by the unified will of the integrating and supervising personality. The mind of evolutionary man is ever confronted with the intricate problem of refereeing the contest between the natural expansion of emotional impulses and the moral growth of unselfish urges predicated on spiritual insight — genuine religious reflection.
(1134.4) 103:5.6 The attempt to secure equal good for the self and for the greatest number of other selves presents a problem which cannot always be satisfactorily resolved in a time-space frame. Given an eternal life, such antagonisms can be worked out, but in one short human life they are incapable of solution. Jesus referred to such a paradox when he said: “Whosoever shall save his life shall lose it, but whosoever shall lose his life for the sake of the kingdom, shall find it.”
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
There was once a young journalist that got the scoop of the millennium. He got an interview with God. Being quite nervous he prepared ahead of time for just the right questions to ask God. He got advise of all kind from all he knew. Being confused, he decided to stick to the basics of what he learned in journalism school. He decides on: Who? What? Where? When? and How? When I came time to interview God he was ready.
He asked God, who am I? God said, you are family. You are my son and a brother to all of my other children.
What shall I do, God? Serve your brothers and you serve me.
Where shall I do this, God? Where ever you happen to be, and in no other place.
When shall I do this, God? Now.
How shall I do this, God? With Love.
“Well God, any closing remarks before we end this interview?” “Yes, for God’s sake, maintain a sense of humor!”
I’d still like to have a serious discussion about judgment. Whether it’s judgment of others or judgment of oneself, it’s got to be relative. Even when it comes to the concepts of right and wrong there is relativity. Isn’t good judgment commensurate with wisdom? And can we ever accurately judge ourselves since we cannot have complete objectivity?
Mortal man 3:5:13 must live “. . .face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor.” Conquer the incessant clamoring.
KISS Keep it simple… I like the succinctness of this statement. Stop the self absorption and constant self evaluation.
This keeps us free of hypocrisy, idolatry and the error of identifying with the unreality of evil and sin.
I find this quote from Jesus fascinating when it comes to the issue of judging others:
133:1.4 Ganid, I can well understand how some of these problems perplex you, and I will endeavor to answer your question. First, in all attacks which might be made upon my person, I would determine whether or not the aggressor was a son of God–my brother in the flesh–and if I thought such a creature did not possess moral judgment and spiritual reason, I would unhesitatingly defend myself to the full capacity of my powers of resistance, regardless of consequences to the attacker. But I would not thus assault a fellow man of sonship status, even in self-defense. That is, I would not punish him in advance and without judgment for his assault upon me. I would by every possible artifice seek to prevent and dissuade him from making such an attack and to mitigate it in case of my failure to abort it.
Jesus is saying that he DOES evaluate, or judge, whether or not another individual is capable of moral judgment. He would NOT defend himself if the individual was capable of it. But Jesus WOULD defend himself, with his full capacity regardless of the consequences, if he thought the creature was incapable of moral judgment. I’m guessing that he used the word creature because an individual without moral judgment would be nothing more than that.
Bottom line is that even Jesus used moral judgment and he taught that moral judgment is a critical feature of sonship. Jesus said that he would not punish without judgment.
What you have failed to realize and distinguish here is that Jesus is talking of his “brother in the flesh”. Jesus is speaking here while still attached to his TA. He had not as yet gained his Supreme Sovereignty. This talk with Ganid happened before the baptism.
After the baptism, Jesus’ TA took leave of him and there was fully manifest the twofold personality of Christ Michael.
When speaking as father Christ Michael of Nebadon, he spoke of “judge not…”
You must distinguish between brother Jesus and father Christ Michael. So far as we know, Gabriel has never been a brother in the flesh.
Moral judgment and spiritual reason are manifestations of the higher mind adjutants. Jesus calls an aggressor functioning without these adjutants a “creature”, which suggests that the person is functioning at an subhuman level, since “sonship” requires the capacity for the functioning of the higher adjutants. Whether this means that some individuals are genetically incapable of it or that they have refused to develop it, I don’t know.
What is sonship, one might ask? Sonship is the capacity to recognize personality ancestry in the Fathership of God. Surely, sonship cannot exist without fathership. In order to recognize the Father, one must be indwelt with the presence of Deity. The Holy Spirit gives us the ability to recognize our Deity parentage, consciously or unconsciously (34:5.4), and the faith-fact of sonship (34:5.7). The Holy Spirit is present within the minds of those individuals who have made contact with all seven adjutants (110:6.13)
Summarizing the quote below, we are all entitled to be called faith-sons of God because a Creator Son, our elder brother, became one of us and left us with his Spirit of Truth which enables us all to receive a fragment of God the Father himself – a true parental inheritance.
40:6.3-8 All evolutionary worlds of mortal habitation harbor these faith sons of God, sons of grace and mercy, mortal beings belonging to the divine family and accordingly called the sons of God. Urantia mortals are entitled to regard themselves as being the sons of God because:
1. You are sons of spiritual promise, faith sons; you have accepted the status of sonship. You believe in the reality of your sonship, and thus does your sonship with God become eternally real.
2. A Creator Son of God became one of you; he is your elder brother in fact; and if in spirit you become truly related brothers of Christ, the victorious Michael, then in spirit must you also be sons of that Father which you have in common—even the Universal Father of all.
3. You are sons because the spirit of a Son has been poured out upon you, has been freely and certainly bestowed upon all Urantia races. This spirit ever draws you toward the divine Son, who is its source, and toward the Paradise Father, who is the source of that divine Son.
4. Of his divine free-willness, the Universal Father has given you your creature personalities. You have been endowed with a measure of that divine spontaneity of freewill action which God shares with all who may become his sons.
5. There dwells within you a fragment of the Universal Father, and you are thus directly related to the divine Father of all the Sons of God.
Moral judgment and spiritual reason are manifestations of the higher mind adjutants. Jesus calls an aggressor functioning without these adjutants a “creature”, which suggests that the person is functioning at an subhuman level, since “sonship” requires the capacity for the functioning of the higher adjutants. Whether this means that some individuals are genetically incapable of it or that they have refused to develop it, I don’t know.
Does Gabriel of Salvington morally judge his brothers? Are any of his brothers in heaven subhuman? Why does Gabriel defend himself or take offense from brothers he knows to be faith-sons of God? The Creator Son is Gabriel’s creator as well as ours.
We have TAs and can recognize the Father. Gabriel does not have a TA so he must recognize the Father in the Creator Son.
Jesus also told us that we must judge our fellows by their deeds, whereas the God judges them by their intent (140:6.4). What he means is that we shouldn’t judge the person, but we MUST judge a person’s behavior.
How do you judge deeds and behavior, what are the criteria? Some truly evil deeds and behavior are easy to recognize, others not so much. Plus, there are cultural factors in play. Some behaviors and deeds are accepted in some cultures, but are wrong in others. According to Jesus, even if you’re just angry with someone you’re in danger, presumably because anger generally expresses itself in evil behavior and deeds.
140:6.4 Then said Simon Peter: “Master, if you have a new commandment, we would hear it. Reveal the new way to us.” Jesus answered Peter: “You have heard it said by those who teach the law: ‘You shall not kill; that whosoever kills shall be subject to judgment.’ But I look beyond the act to uncover the motive. I declare to you that every one who is angry with his brother is in danger of condemnation. He who nurses hatred in his heart and plans vengeance in his mind stands in danger of judgment. You must judge your fellows by their deeds; the Father in heaven judges by the intent.
Jesus also told us that we must judge our fellows by their deeds, whereas the God judges them by their intent (140:6.4). What he means is that we shouldn’t judge the person, but we MUST judge a person’s behavior.
How do you judge deeds and behavior, what are the criteria? Some truly evil deeds and behavior are easy to recognize, others not so much. Plus, there are cultural factors in play. Some behaviors and deeds are accepted in some cultures, but are wrong in others. According to Jesus, even if you’re just angry with someone you’re in danger, presumably because anger generally expresses itself in evil behavior and deeds.
140:6.4 Then said Simon Peter: “Master, if you have a new commandment, we would hear it. Reveal the new way to us.” Jesus answered Peter: “You have heard it said by those who teach the law: ‘You shall not kill; that whosoever kills shall be subject to judgment.’ But I look beyond the act to uncover the motive. I declare to you that every one who is angry with his brother is in danger of condemnation. He who nurses hatred in his heart and plans vengeance in his mind stands in danger of judgment. You must judge your fellows by their deeds; the Father in heaven judges by the intent.
Indeed, I could not agree with you more, Bonita. That is why I fear for Gabriel for the anger I sense in the following quotes.
53:8.4 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.
Praying for the destruction of the rebels is vengeance. Gabriel is not above judgement for this apparent anger.
53:9.4Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabrielvs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations. when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.
Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels is apparent anger that God only knows.
Even of this anger is justified, there is danger of judgement.
That is why I fear for Gabriel for the anger I sense in the following quotes. [53:8.4; 53:9.4]
Again, I think you are conflating two different orders of created being – Gabriel, 33:4:2 a being of wisdom and majesty brought forth by our Creator Son and Daughter Spirit – “a being like themselves and partaking freely of their combined natures but not of their creative prerogatives”, and, us finite mortals. Your ideas about anger are misplaced. Anger is a mental poison.
Do you recall this:
110:1:5 All physical poisons greatly retard the efforts of the Adjuster to exalt the material mind, while the mental poisons of fear, anger, envy, jealousy, suspicion, and intolerance likewise tremendously interfere with the spiritual progress of the evolving soul.It’s a mystery to me why you would attribute human emotion – anger- to Gabriel. What is anger? Jesus said this:149:4:2 “Anger is a material manifestation which represents, in a general way, the measure of the failure of the spiritual nature to gain control of the combined intellectual and physical natures. Anger indicates your lack of tolerant brotherly love plus your lack of self-respect and self-control. Anger depletes the health, debases the mind, and handicaps the spirit teacher of man’s soul. Have you not read in the Scriptures that ‘wrath kills the foolish man,’ and that man ‘tears himself in his anger‘? That ‘he who is slow of wrath is of great understanding,’ while ‘he who is hasty of temper exalts folly’? You all know that ‘a soft answer turns away wrath,’ and how ‘grievous words stir up anger.’ ‘Discretion defers anger,’ while ‘he who has no control over his own self is like a defenseless city without walls.’ ‘Wrath is cruel and anger is outrageous.’ ‘Angry men stir up strife, while the furious multiply their transgressions.’ ‘Be not hasty in spirit, for anger rests in the bosom of fools.’” Before Jesus ceased speaking, he said further: “Let your hearts be so dominated by love that your spirit guide will have little trouble in delivering you from the tendency to give vent to those outbursts of animal anger which are inconsistent with the status of divine sonship.”
