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another mind thing

143 posts · 7 participants · started Oct 9, 2016, 9:13 PM

  1. This appears to be a universal truth….we will never stop learning until we close our minds and cling to our “opinion” which defy reality.

    Bradly, I’m not sure that that is a “universal truth” however, it may be your truth?  Besides, are you saying that you have “closed” your mind and are clinging to your “opinion” which defies your “reality”?

    I did not say “I” “know” everything at all. And our experience does not determine what is written…only our appreciation, understanding, application, and usefulness of what is written.

    Yes, maybe, but you did indicate that you know what the UB says and what it don’t say.  Therefore, you are saying that you “know”, what? but then you say that it is our experience that determines how we, or you, have “appreciation, understanding, application, and usefulness of what is written.”  Then, these attributes come from your experiences? and if one does not know what your experiences are, then they also could not understand how it is that you know what you know?  Yet, it appears that you seem to expect others to know what you know or don’t know to be true as you know it?  Thereby, everyone’s experiences changes how they understand what is written, “opinion” as it relates to them self, not you.

    VA/nod’s “opinion” is inaccurate and contradicts the UB.

    There is a problem with what you seem to be saying here?  How is it that you know that ‘VA/nod’s “opinion” is inaccurate’, if his opinion is based on your “opinion”, as you see it?  From my experience in reading the UB, I have found many contradictions in the UB but, this may only be that they only seem to be contradistinctions because there are so many different subjects being presented in the UB and the authors chose to use similar wording in their narration which seems to be linked together but in actuality are different within each section where they are presented?  By your indication that you know or don’t know, are you taking all these differences into consideration, or are you lumping them all together as one, all having the same plot, so to speak?

    VA/nod seems to think perfecting is a race and is a dangerous pursuit in a dangerous universe fraught with perils and has claimed that the UB is a DANGEROUS book. I find it is his anxieties and prejudice and disappointment in others that continue to be displayed, none of which might find support in the UB itself.

    How is it that you can say that you “find it is his anxieties and prejudice and disappointment in others …”?  What qualifications do you have to be able to make this kind of statement if you are not presenting this as your opinion?  Whereby it would seem that you are making a judgment against another, based on what you do not know about another, where it would appear that you are making an accusation but by who’s authority do you imply this? yours, or what you may understand to be supported in the UB, as you believe it or have been taught to think about it through your experiences?

    A book can only be dangerous if it is misinterpreted as fact and truth without the support of experience as might be associated to our own understanding of reality?

     

  2. There is a crowd of TUB’ers out there who are constantly screaming about their right to interpret the revelation any way they want. Yes, they are totally free to interpret any which way they desire, but they are not free to teach their interpretation unless it is in line with reality. If it doesn’t ping with the three reality reflexes, then it’s poppycock and no one has to listen to it. Lucifer taught poppycock.

    Can one assume that you are also subject to this statement or are you the only one who is “free to teach their interpretation” to others because you are “in line with reality”?  From my reading of the UB, I do not recall that “Lucifer taught” anything, only was presented as having exercised his opinion, as others understood it to be?  Can you present any direct quotes attributed to Lucifer which were not opinion or third party narration?  What is or are “the three reality reflexes”?

  3. POPPYCOCK ALERT: The Lucifer Manifesto is a teaching.  It is a mission statement instructing all members of the mission on how to think and act. It was written by Lucifer, not a third party. A manifesto is not an opinion.  A manifesto is a declaration of policy, a program to be carried out.

    POPPYCOCK ALERT: Revelation is not dangerous.  Truth is not dangerous.  But, there is great danger in “. . . succumbing to the error of the circumscribed viewpoint, to the evil inherent in a segmentalized conception of reality and divinity.” (19:1.4)

    EDUCATIONAL ALERT:  A segmented conception of reality is due to the failure to utilize the three cosmic mind reality recognition reflexes, or reality sensitivity responses, which are:

    16:6.4-8  There exists in all personality associations of the cosmic mind a quality which might be denominated the “reality response.” It is this universal cosmic endowment of will creatures which saves them from becoming helpless victims of the implied a priori assumptions of science, philosophy, and religion. This reality sensitivity of the cosmic mind responds to certain phases of reality just as energy-material responds to gravity. It would be still more correct to say that these supermaterial realities so respond to the mind of the cosmos.

    The cosmic mind unfailingly responds (recognizes response) on three levels of universe reality. These responses are self-evident to clear-reasoning and deep-thinking minds. These levels of reality are:

    1. Causation — the reality domain of the physical senses, the scientific realms of logical uniformity, the differentiation of the factual and the nonfactual, reflective conclusions based on cosmic response. This is the mathematical form of the cosmic discrimination.

    2. Duty — the reality domain of morals in the philosophic realm, the arena of reason, the recognition of relative right and wrong. This is the judicial form of the cosmic discrimination.

    3. Worship — the spiritual domain of the reality of religious experience, the personal realization of divine fellowship, the recognition of spirit values, the assurance of eternal survival, the ascent from the status of servants of God to the joy and liberty of the sons of God. This is the highest insight of the cosmic mind, the reverential and worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination.

  4. Bradly wrote:  I have always found that the more one comes to know, the more you discover how much more there is to learn.  This appears to be a universal truth….we will never stop learning until we close our minds and cling to our “opinion” which defy reality.

    102:2.4  Knowledge is an eternal quest; always are you learning, but never are you able to arrive at the full knowledge of absolute truth.

    The use of the words eternal and always kinda make this a universal truth, if universal means affecting all persons capable of questing and learning.  Absolute truth is something only God is privy to.  None of us will ever become God, so we will never have full knowledge of absolute truth.  However, it is an eternal quest which we will always be doing.

    I admire Bradly for always questing and learning.  And, he is always willing to change his views if he learns something new.  The problem with some people here is that they get upset if he is not learning from them, not choosing to accept what it is they are teaching or sharing (i.e., their interpretation).  The good thing about truth is that it’s never illogical.  It makes sense, it pings with reality, it clicks into place.  Much of what I read from the complainers is illogical.  Not all of it, I don’t mean to be casting aspersions, but most of the logic and reasoning is despairingly tortured, so much so that it is unintelligible and unusable.

    Wait . . .  that reminds me of a Van/nodism:

    What I’m saying is that the idea that being or thinking in the middle, between true and false never results in quality. Although it seems like it’s okay, gray falls in the realm of the nondoable. Sat Jul 16, 2016

    Yeah, it’s something like that.  In other words, if the note you’re singing falls in the crack between two keys on the keyboard, it’s not a true tone.  It’s a crack-tone, a made up note. That’s what I’m talking about . . .  falling in the crack between true and false.  It’s wrong.  It’s error.  It’s not perfect.  Oh . . .  and since Van/nod is always talking about pitching perfect games . . . falling in the crack between notes is not perfect pitch . . . Ah . . . I love tortured metaphors. Soooooo, Bradly doesn’t tolerate crack-tones, gray nodoable thinking or anything that doesn’t ring true to his reality recognition responses. Way to go Bradly!  You’re a maestro, or is it an ace?  Eh, whatever . . .

    They do say that the higher your education, the more respect you have for other people’s knowledge.  Education is the business of life, so someone like Bradly, who has been dedicated to the business of life for a long time can surely recognize real knowledge when he sees it.  If he doesn’t see it, then there’s little he can do except attempt to enlighten if he can, which he does.

    25:3.12 The higher a creature’s education, the more respect he has for the knowledge, experience, and opinions of others.

    71.7.5  Education is the business of living; it must continue throughout a lifetime so that mankind may gradually experience the ascending levels of mortal wisdom, which are: 1. The knowledge of things. 2. The realization of meanings. 3. The appreciation of values. 4. The nobility of work — duty. 5. The motivation of goals — morality. 6. The love of service — character. 7. Cosmic insight — spiritual discernment.

  5. It is difficult to use “POPPYCOCK” to prove that something is “POPPYCOCK”?

    The Lucifer Manifesto is a teaching. It is a mission statement instructing all members of the mission on how to think and act. It was written by Lucifer, not a third party. A manifesto is not an opinion. A manifesto is a declaration of policy, a program to be carried out.

    First of all the “Lucifer Manifesto” is not “teaching.” As you state latter above, in part, that it is “a public declaration of intentions, opinions, objectives, or motives, as one issued by a government, sovereign, or organization.” Where the UB presents a summary of what this “Manifesto” implies but later on in the UB it presents additional implications as to what this “declaration” proposed, however there are no exact quotations as to specific narration, therefore can only be assume as “opinion” either from the authors or Lucifer.  Thereby, in order to bring this so called “Manifesto” to action, it would require as certain amount of authority, which was eventually striped from those who presented the “declaration”.  Also, the UB presents another example of a “manifesto” which was declared and put to action in Jesus’ time, which would imply that Jesus’ presentation was similar to what Lucifer presented to be proved through action.

     (1718.2) 154:2.1 Sunday, May 8, A.D. 29, at Jerusalem, the Sanhedrin passed a decree closing all the synagogues of Palestine to Jesus and his followers. This was a new and unprecedented usurpation of authority by the Jerusalem Sanhedrin. Theretofore each synagogue had existed and functioned as an independent congregation of worshipers and was under the rule and direction of its own board of governors. Only the synagogues of Jerusalem had been subject to the authority of the Sanhedrin. This summary action of the Sanhedrin was followed by the resignation of five of its members. One hundred messengers were immediately dispatched to convey and enforce this decree. Within the short space of two weeks every synagogue in Palestine had bowed to this manifesto of the Sanhedrin except the synagogue at Hebron. The rulers of the Hebron synagogue refused to acknowledge the right of the Sanhedrin to exercise such jurisdiction over their assembly. This refusal to accede to the Jerusalem decree was based on their contention of congregational autonomy rather than on sympathy with Jesus’ cause. Shortly thereafter the Hebron synagogue was destroyed by fire.

    Revelation is not dangerous. Truth is not dangerous. But, there is great danger in “. . . succumbing to the error of the circumscribed viewpoint, to the evil inherent in a segmentalized conception of reality and divinity.” (19:1.4)

    I’m glad that you used a portion of the UB, to make your argument here, (19:1.4), which is as I implied to Bradly in the use of certain section of the UB which may not apply to a specific scenario being attempted for an example.  Where the following is the a more complete representation:

    (215.1) 19:1.4 In this connection, however, it may be noted that Teacher Sons are the supreme co-ordinating personalities of Trinity origin. In such a far-flung universe of universes there is always great danger of succumbing to the error of the circumscribed viewpoint, to the evil inherent in a segmentalized conception of reality and divinity.

    (215.2) 19:1.5 For example: The human mind would ordinarily crave to approach the cosmic philosophy portrayed in these revelations by proceeding from the simple and the finite to the complex and the infinite, from human origins to divine destinies. But that path does not lead to spiritual wisdom. Such a procedure is the easiest path to a certain form of genetic knowledge, but at best it can only reveal man’s origin; it reveals little or nothing about his divine destiny.

    (215.3) 19:1.6 Even in the study of man’s biologic evolution on Urantia, there are grave objections to the exclusive historic approach to his present-day status and his current problems. The true perspective of any reality problem — human or divine, terrestrial or cosmic — can be had only by the full and unprejudiced study and correlation of three phases of universe reality: origin, history, and destiny. The proper understanding of these three experiential realities affords the basis for a wise estimate of the current status.

    (215.4) 19:1.7 When the human mind undertakes to follow the philosophic technique of starting from the lower to approach the higher, whether in biology or theology, it is always in danger of committing four errors of reasoning:

    (215.5) 19:1.8 1. It may utterly fail to perceive the final and completed evolutionary goal of either personal attainment or cosmic destiny.

    (215.6) 19:1.9 2. It may commit the supreme philosophical blunder by oversimplifying cosmic evolutionary (experiential) reality, thus leading to the distortion of facts, to the perversion of truth, and to the misconception of destinies.

    (215.7) 19:1.10 3. The study of causation is the perusal of history. But the knowledge of how a being becomes does not necessarily provide an intelligent understanding of the present status and true character of such a being.

    (215.8) 19:1.11 4. History alone fails adequately to reveal future development — destiny. Finite origins are helpful, but only divine causes reveal final effects. Eternal ends are not shown in time beginnings. The present can be truly interpreted only in the light of the correlated past and future.

    (215.9) 19:1.12 Therefore, because of these and for still other reasons, do we employ the technique of approaching man and his planetary problems by embarkation on the time-space journey from the infinite, eternal, and divine Paradise Source and Center of all personality reality and all cosmic existence.

    A segmented conception of reality is due to the failure to utilize the three cosmic mind reality recognition reflexes, or reality sensitivity responses, which are:

    I’m not sure how your explanation refers to your use of “the three reality reflexes” but I can understand where you may have associated this to the presentation you used, which is viable but does not seem to explain your original use of the phrase in question?  Where as you indicate is more associated to the “cosmic mind”, which one could only assume that in its reference that you have access too, and if it is not exclusive then all others have the same access, making any exclusivity common.

  6. As I stated before, some posts are so entirely illogical that there is no reasonable response.  What Jesus presented is similar to what Lucifer presented??  Sigh.  A manifesto closing the synagogues to Jesus’ teaching is the same as the Lucifer Manifesto??? Yet a manifesto is not a public teaching or guideline to action???? Another sigh. And the Lucifer Manifesto is just an opinion of what Lucifer meant, not actually what he said or wrote?????   Many more sighs.  Ahhhh . . . .   I think I’ll just let irrationality be seen for what it is and move on.  Best to get out of the way and let the train that’s jumped the tracks come to its own stop.  Which it will.

     

     

     

  7. In other words, if the note you’re singing falls in the crack between two keys on the keyboard, it’s not a true tone. It’s a crack-tone, a made up note. That’s what I’m talking about . . . falling in the crack between true and false. It’s wrong. It’s error. It’s not perfect.

    If I’m not mistaken Bonita, that you have had some formal musical training, but what you seem to be referring to is called a semitone, or half step and half tone, where not all instruments are designed to be able to play, without specific tuning.  One of which is a piano, but may be represented by playing two keys together, to create a combination tone or frequency.  This can also be achieved by playing out of key which the music has been written but then there are specific notation in which the composer may use to note differences, which is the prerogative of the composer.  So, yes there are semitones between true and false notes but to the trained ear, and the understanding of the entire composition, will no one be able to determine what is perfect, from the standpoint of the composer, only interpret it like a conductor who puts their own emphasis on the composition in question.  Not all conductors have the same skills or abilities.

  8. As I stated before, some posts are so entirely illogical that there is no reasonable response. What Jesus presented is similar to what Lucifer presented?? Sigh. A manifesto closing the synagogues to Jesus’ teaching is the same as the Lucifer Manifesto??? Yet a manifesto is not a public teaching or guideline to action???? Another sigh. And the Lucifer Manifesto is just an opinion of what Lucifer meant, not actually what he said or wrote????? Many more sighs. Ahhhh . . . . I think I’ll just let irrationality be seen for what it is and move on. Best to get out of the way and let the train that’s jumped the tracks come to its own stop. Which it will.

    Okay, then prove me wrong, if you can? Present your argument, and lets pick it apart, or is your position that weak that you must relate to assumptions on what I present as illogical — “convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.”?  Or, is this an area of the UB, where it doesn’t say something in the way it has been narrated?

  9. POPPYCOCK ALERT:  Semitones are one-half of a whole tone, the smallest interval in traditional Western music.  Smaller intervals are called microtones.  Microtones are a feature of Asian music, which is why it often sounds dissonant to Western ears.

  10. Semitones are one-half of a whole tone, the smallest interval in traditional Western music. Smaller intervals are called microtones. Microtones are a feature of Asian music, which is why it often sounds dissonant to Western ears.

    Thanks for proving my point.  I didn’t want to go that fare but proof that what you have presented is illogical as well as inaccurate.

    Microtonal music – “Microtonal music can refer to any music containing microtones, therefore it is important to comprehend what a “microtone” is. The words “microtone” and “microtonal” were coined before 1912 by Maud MacCarthy Mann in order to avoid the misnomer “quarter tone” when speaking of the srutis of Indian music (Mann 1912, 44). Prior to this time the term “quarter tone” was used, confusingly, not only for an interval actually half the size of a semitone, but also for all intervals (considerably) smaller than a semitone (Ellis 1877, 665; Meyer 1903). It may have been even slightly earlier, perhaps as early as 1895, that the Mexican composer Julián Carrillo, writing in Spanish or French, coined the terms microtono/micro-ton and microtonalismo/micro-tonalité (Donval 2006, 119).”

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Partial_accidentals.svg/500px-Partial_accidentals.svg.png

    Note the symbols used to express these tones.

    As a side note, the UB has, in the past, interpreted the atomic scale as having divisions in octaves, where these octaves have sub-divisions where even light can be inclusive.  Therefore, light can be represented through musical or tonal notation.

     (474.5) 42:5.1 In the superuniverse of Orvonton there are one hundred octaves of wave energy. Of these one hundred groups of energy manifestations, sixty-four are wholly or partially recognized on Urantia. The sun’s rays constitute four octaves in the superuniverse scale, the visible rays embracing a single octave, number forty-six in this series. The ultraviolet group comes next, while ten octaves up are the X rays, followed by the gamma rays of radium. Thirty-two octaves above the visible light of the sun are the outerspace energy rays so frequently commingled with their associated highly energized minute particles of matter. Next downward from visible sunlight appear the infrared rays, and thirty octaves below are the radio transmission group. *

    Just a side note for the science buffs, and what is not presented in the UB unless one knows?

  11. 86:2.4 Man naturally tends to believe that which he deems best for him, that which is in his immediate or remote interest; self-interest largely obscures logic.

    I would think that when you try to convert someone to your way of thinking there must be some level of self-interest involved.  I also think this is why Jesus said that the extent you have to go to get your message across is a measure of your ability to live a truth-coordinated life.  I would think that the more truth there is in a message, the easier it is to get the message across. On the flip side, the less susceptible to truth you are, the less likely you’ll be willing to receive a truthful message.  Then there is the other danger TUB warns us about that can happen once distorted thinking takes hold (66:8.2), the reprehensible habit of judging others by your own selfish motives, which defies all logic.

     

     

  12. I would think that when you try to convert someone to your way of thinking there must be some level of self-interest involved.

    Why is your thought pattern in the mood of assuming that everyone should think the same way, or as might be reflected by their incessant alternate assumption?  It is a fact that you will not be able to think the same way as I do because of different experiences or abilities but, even though one does not comprehend different ways of thinking, it should be noted that there are different ways of thinking.  I care not to change another to my way of thinking, which would be difficult, nevertheless to present a different way of thinking is a motive to stimulate thought.  Therefore, there is no attempt to convert thought but to stimulate thought to open the cosmic mind to enhance creativity though imagination.

  13. Been reading all of this and my opinion is Midi-your defending a troll.

    cant say much of it was worth reading. Sorry.

    on the bright side the German piano maker Sauter makes a microtonal piano.

    Mr Sauter at a convention asked me to tune it and I did. It is 97 notes that spans one octave in the mid range A3 to A4. So the upper note was 440hz standard pitch in America anyway and the lower 220hz. The way I figured the tuning was that whole tones are divided into cents – one hundred to the whole tone so for an octave there would be 1200 cents divided by 97 notes – you can do the math for cents per note. The tuning fit the octave and no two adjacent notes sounded the same and the chromatic progression was even so I figure it was right enough. Can’t play a third, fourth or fifth with one hand-weird.

    problem was that there only a handful of these instruments and even less people that write music for them and even less that play them. The artist performed, his technique was awesome but the music made no musical sense at all.

    an exercise in futility imho.

  14. POPPYCOCK ALERT: One does not open the cosmic mind.  The cosmic mind is already open and readily available.  However, one might attempt to more fully open their own personal consciousness to the reality responses of the cosmic mind.   This results from reflective thinking.

    TUB is not dangerous but uncontrolled creative imagination can be quite dangerous.  What controls the creative imagination?  Sensitivity to reality, i.e. ability to utilize the three cosmic reality responses.  They are openly available to all.  The experience of living never fails to to develop them in all those who engage in reflective thinking.  What is reflective thinking?  It is thought seeking alignment with spirit.

    16:9.1 The cosmic-mind-endowed, Adjuster-indwelt, personal creature possesses innate recognition-realization of energy reality, mind reality, and spirit reality. The will creature is thus equipped to discern the fact, the law, and the love of God. Aside from these three inalienables of human consciousness, all human experience is really subjective except that intuitive realization of validity attaches to the unification of these three universe reality responses of cosmic recognition.

    Trying to stimulate other people to open their cosmic consciousness doesn’t seem as important as opening your own.  Just sayin’.

  15. Trying to stimulate other people to open their cosmic consciousness doesn’t seem as important as opening your own. Just sayin’.

    Speaking for yourself, I see that you are. “Do. Or do not. There is no try.”  If what you say is backwards and upside-down, then have you found yourself to be in a place which is right for you.  For me, have I found my place, with Father as a guide. To progress in confusion is inherent to the law – life everlasting within the pockets of time.

  16. Haha!  That is hilarious!!!  I think I’ll start collecting  too.

    To progress in confusion is inherent to the law – life everlasting within the pockets of time. Thur. Oct. 20, 2016

    That’s very similar to this Van/nodism:

    Life is dangerous. The Urantia Book is a part of life. Sun Sep. 18, 2016

    Phew . . . everlasting life in the pockets of time.  That sounds eerily similar to Louis’ cracks in time where God rushes in.  Now that was outrageously  funny.

    Confusion is inherent to the law – life?  Yes, the law is life, but life itself is not inherently confusing.  The problem of learning how to coordinate reality can be confusing to personalities while they transfer their identity from material to spiritual, which is another way to say, traverse the psychic circles.  The closer one’s identity is to spirit, the less confusing reality is.  Confusion is a mind problem, a problem of adjusting to life.  But never mind, who knows what really goes on in those pockets and cracks of time created by the uncontrolled creative imagination . . . what a hoot!

  17. an exercise in futility imho.

    That may be true but there also can be a correlation between audio tones and light frequencies which can be associated with human cellular harmonics which could be used to identify various biological cells and how they may be altered to either enhance them or eradicate them, like cancer cells etc.  This concept was introduced by “Royal Raymond Rife” however, no one was able to follow his work, for various reasons but, also was a viable theory.  Notwithstanding that the method used in the human brain to register thought, memory and various other functions is or can be encoded within a chemical harmonic resonance which should be common to everyone.  This would allow for a better knowledge of how specific types of communication is deciphered by the brain even though a person may understand different languages, the common frequency would be the same yet interpreted differently.  This could be associated to Bible stories where many people who understood different languages received the same message, thereby being a universal language.  This would be a fundamental need to understanding how the brain functions and how we think.  Thanks for the information regarding the microtonal piano, where there have been additional advancements to new types of electronic audio synthesizers.

  18. Thanks for all the kind words Bonita….and right back at you!!!  = )

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  19. Sauter only makes acoustic pianos

    and you lost me.

  20. Sauter only makes acoustic pianos and you lost me.

    I understand but the fundamental theory can be expanded in other areas, of acoustics and frequency mathematics.  I’ve been studying in an area which is beyond singular areas and attempting to combine multiple areas of study into a more productive area.  There are many similarities between subject material that may produce a combined theory that may work better for finding out detailed information.  I have found similarities in the text of the UB which seems to link several areas of study together because they seem to be related.  But, I don’t expect anyone to understand what I have found because for the most part people are generally mean natured when they cannot understand new concepts.  If everyone took on this same attitude there would be no advancements in science or medicine today.

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