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What is spiritual brotherhood?

234 posts · 7 participants · started Jun 18, 2015, 9:25 PM

VernParticipant
Jul 22, 2015, 6:49 AM

Mara wrote: The godless person can behave in ways that seem “spiritual” to others who know him or her, but such is not the case, as only social fruits, not the divine fruits of the spirit, are forthcoming.

Mara, imperfect mortals as we are, are in no position to determine who is godless and who is not.

In my previous post I specifically drew attention to the largely unconscious work of the Thought Adjuster in the mind of the indwelt person. Accordingly, I maintain most people are responding co-operatively to inner spirit leading but do not have words sufficient to define such an intimate and personal experience. Current religious terminology, justifiably questioned and duly found wanting, and consequently rejected by spiritually motivated people, does not qualify them as godless.

Anyway, it is not for you or I to judge on the worth of any soul.

…The nearest he came to making sociological pronouncements was to say, “Judge not, that you be not judged.” ^[Paper ^{140:8.12, page 1580:7]}

^…it was the practice of Jesus always to say, “Be as wise as serpents but as harmless as doves.” It seemed to be his purpose in all social situations to teach patience, tolerance, and forgiveness. ^[Paper ^{140:8.13, page 1580:8]}

Have we not been instructed of the spiritual value of love in human relationships? Fruits of the spirit selflessly given are evidence of the Father’s leading irrespective of stated beliefs. We even have the example in The Urantia Book of Cymboyton who never disclosed his beliefs and kept this to himself all his life. If you have faith, have it to yourself.

…“Have you faith? Then have it to yourself.” ^[Paper ^{99:5.7, page 1091.6]}

Mara, I read again that section you quoted and know social fruits have spiritual antecedents. Ignorance of God is not so great a problem as active denial of him. Many of our fellows probably fall more into the category of ignorance rather than rebellious denial.

Those who would invent a religion without God are like those who would gather fruit without trees, have children without parents. You cannot have effects without causes; only the I AM is causeless. The fact of religious experience implies God, and such a God of personal experience must be a personal Deity. ^[Paper ^{102:7.3, page 1126.3]}

Mara, most people who are sincerely led by the Spirit of Truth have already found what they are seeking, the….. God of personal experience and have no need to invent a religion, nor belong to a traditional one which is spiritually dead. In this way what Jesus said, “the Truth shall set you free” has come to pass. Between God and man there are no intermediaries—the connection is direct, Pre-person to person.

“…But I have come to show you that, while you are seeking to find God, God is likewise seeking to find you.” ^[Paper ^{169:1.2, page 1850:9]}

Up to Pentecost, religion had revealed only man seeking for God; since Pentecost, man is still searching for God, but there shines out over the world the spectacle of God also seeking for man and sending his spirit to dwell within him when he has found him. ^[Paper ^{194:3.13, page 12065:1]}

…Pentecost obliterated all religious discrimination founded on racial distinction, cultural differences, social caste, or sex prejudice. No wonder these believers in the new religion would cry out, “Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.” ^[Paper^{194:3.14, page 12065:2]}

Co-operation with the Thought Adjuster is being in harmony with cosmic mind and testifies, that in actively seeking, the Father has already found you.

Freedom or initiative in any realm of existence is directly proportional to the degree of spiritual influence and cosmic-mind control; that is, in human experience, the degree of the actuality of doing “the Father’s will.” And so, when you once start out to find God, that is the conclusive proof that God has already found you. ^[Paper ^{195:6.16, page 2078:2]}

It is not required that believers of the invisible spiritual brotherhood declare themselves, for by fruits of the spirit of selfless service are they known. Jesus said “let not the left hand know what the right hand does.”

“…Do your good deeds in secret; when you give alms, let not the left hand know what the right hand does. …for the service of the kingdom, lay not up for yourselves treasures on earth, but by your unselfish service lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, for where your treasures are, there will your hearts be also.” ^[Paper ^{140:6.11, page 1577:5]}

Doing good to others is the unconscious action of a generous soul.

Jesus knew men were different, and he so taught his apostles. He constantly exhorted them to refrain from trying to mold the disciples and believers according to some set pattern. He sought to allow each soul to develop in its own way, a perfecting and separate individual before God. In answer to one of Peter’s many questions, the Master said: “I want to set men free so that they can start out afresh as little children upon the new and better life.” Jesus always insisted that true goodness must be unconscious, in bestowing charity not allowing the left hand to know what the right hand does. ^[Paper ^{140:8.26, page 1582:7]}

It is good to extend help to our fellows without thought of reward.

…Always remember that God does not reward man for what he does but for what he is; therefore should you extend help to your fellows without the thought of rewards. Do good without thought of benefit to the self.^[Paper^{131:8.5, page 1452:3]}

Surely any person who shows the qualities of a “great soul” is an active member of the spiritual brotherhood, irrespective of group affiliations.

…Tact is the fulcrum of social leverage, and tolerance is the earmark of a great soul.… ^[Paper ^{156:5.18, page 1740:5]}

Mara, when you highlighted the section in red please take into account, the word “atheist” was intentionally in inverted commas to bring attention that such a superficial label is not an accurate measure of the deeper inner spiritual life of the person. To know a person you have to spend time with them. As readers of The Urantia Book we are well informed regarding the flaws of materialism, the inherent weakness of such an attitude, that a self stated label as “atheist” is in reality a confession of ignorance, a plea for help, one which invokes a sympathetic response in accord with Jesus’ intercession for forgiveness. Believers know the validity of “personal experience” and the keys to the kingdom are sincerity, and all men and women have these keys.

The keys of the kingdom of heaven are: sincerity, more sincerity, and more sincerity. All men have these keys. Men use them — advance in spirit status — by decisions, by more decisions, and by more decisions. The highest moral choice is the choice of the highest possible value, and always — in any sphere, in all of them — this is to choose to do the will of God. If man thus chooses, he is great, though he be the humblest citizen of Jerusem or even the least of mortals on Urantia. ^[Paper ^{39:4.14, page 435:7]}

A sincere person is a spiritually fragrant person.
MaraParticipant
Jul 22, 2015, 4:03 PM

Vern wrote:

Mara, imperfect mortals as we are, are in no position to determine who is godless and who is not.

The word “godless” is a word of your choice. It is not a word I have used in this discussion. You brought up the “atheist” term as well, and claim such people are “Vern wrote: . . . in reality long time members of the spiritual brotherhood because they bear much spiritual fruit already in the way they care for one another, often, way more than professed believers. They are in fact, living the golden rule already.” It seems to me you believe everyone, even the atheist, is a member of the spiritual brotherhood! I disagree. I think the spiritual brotherhood is very specific. Faith is the price of admission. The atheist, the secularist, the humanist, the materialist, and others who frankly say God does not exist are not members of the spiritual brotherhood.

Vern wrote:In my previous post I specifically drew attention to the largely unconscious work of the Thought Adjuster in the mind of the indwelt person. Accordingly, I maintain most people are responding co-operatively to inner spirit leading but do not have words sufficient to define such an intimate and personal experience.

It is unreasonable to assume people don’t have the words for such an intimate experience. And how do you know whether or not they are responding to spirit leading? You make an assumption on this point.

Vern wrote:Current religious terminology, justifiably questioned and duly found wanting, and consequently rejected by spiritually motivated people, does not qualify them as godless.

By your way of thinking the whole lot of humanity is in the spiritual brotherhood. I do not agree with this. I do think the potential exists for all humanity to fellowship in the kingdom of heaven. This does not now exist in actuality. It is for the distant future when the actuality of the spiritual brotherhood will prevail. I think spiritual brotherhood is a specific concept. A new concept. A new revelation. I ask this question again to those of you who are following along in this discussion: Does the spiritual brotherhood consist only of “believers”?
MaraParticipant
Jul 22, 2015, 5:49 PM

Mara wrote: I think spiritual brotherhood is a specific concept. A new concept. A new revelation.

The new gospel of the kingdom:

( 140:6:2 ) When he had entered the garden, he gathered the apostles around him and taught them further, saying: “You find it difficult to receive my message because you would build the new teaching directly upon the old, but I declare that you must be reborn. You must start out afresh as little children and be willing to trust my teaching and believe in God. The new gospel of the kingdom cannot be made to conform to that which is. You have wrong ideas of the Son of Man and his mission on earth. But do not make the mistake of thinking that I have come to set aside the law and the prophets; I have not come to destroy but to fulfill, to enlarge and illuminate. I come not to transgress the law but rather to write these new commandments on the tablets of your hearts.

(141:2:2 ) “When you are the subjects of this kingdom, you indeed are made to hear the law of the Universe Ruler; but when, because of the gospel of the kingdom which I have come to declare, you faith-discover yourselves as sons, you henceforth look not upon yourselves as law-subject creatures of an all-powerful king but as privileged sons of a loving and divine Father. Verily, verily, I say to you, when the Father’s will is your law, you are hardly in the kingdom. But when the Father’s will becomes truly your will, then are you in very truth in the kingdom because the kingdom has thereby become an established experience in you. When God’s will is your law, you are noble slave subjects; but when you believe in this new gospel of divine sonship, my Father’s will becomes your will, and you are elevated to the high position of the free children of God, liberated sons of the kingdom.”

(138:5:2 ) […] Always would they [the apostles] make the mistake of trying to fit Jesus’ new gospel into their old forms of religious belief. They could not grasp the idea that Jesus had come to proclaim a new gospel of salvation and to establish a new way of finding God; they did not perceive that he was a new revelation of the Father in heaven.

159:5:7 And this is illustrative of the way Jesus, day by day, appropriated the cream of the Hebrew scriptures for the instruction of his followers and for inclusion in the teachings of the new gospel of the kingdom. Other religions had suggested the thought of the nearness of God to man, but Jesus made the care of God for man like the solicitude of a loving father for the welfare of his dependent children and then made this teaching the cornerstone of his religion. And thus did the doctrine of the fatherhood of God make imperative the practice of the brotherhood of man. The worship of God and the service of man became the sum and substance of his religion. Jesus took the best of the Jewish religion and translated it to a worthy setting in the new teachings of the gospel of the kingdom.
SabinatuBlocked
Jul 23, 2015, 1:24 AM
This has been a very interesting thread.

I wanted to introduce a different perspective on the atheist question – whether they are in the spiritual brotherhood, or not – based on the Andon and Fonta story, one of the unique revelations of human history that has been lost to us until now…here is some of the story as presented in TUB:

“6. Evolution of the Human Mind

^62:6.1 ^(709.2) We, the Life Carriers on Urantia, had passed through the long vigil of watchful waiting since the day we first planted the life plasm in the planetary waters, and naturally the appearance of the first really intelligent and volitional beings brought to us great joy and supreme satisfaction.

^62:6.2 ^(709.3) We had been watching the twins develop mentally through our observation of the functioning of the seven adjutant mind-spirits assigned to Urantia at the time of our arrival on the planet. Throughout the long evolutionary development of planetary life, these tireless mind ministers had ever registered their increasing ability to contact with the successively expanding brain capacities of the progressively superior animal creatures.

^62:6.3 ^(709.4) At first only the spirit of intuition could function in the instinctive and reflex behavior of the primordial animal life. With the differentiation of higher types, the spirit of understanding was able to endow such creatures with the gift of spontaneous association of ideas. Later on we observed the spirit of courage in operation; evolving animals really developed a crude form of protective self-consciousness. Subsequent to the appearance of the mammalian groups, we beheld the spirit of knowledge manifesting itself in increased measure. And the evolution of the higher mammals brought the function of the spirit of counsel, with the resulting growth of the herd instinct and the beginnings of primitive social development.

^62:6.4 ^(709.5) Increasingly, on down through the dawn mammals, the mid-mammals, and the Primates, we had observed the augmented service of the first five adjutants. But never had the remaining two, the highest mind ministers, been able to function in the Urantia type of evolutionary mind.

^62:6.5 ^(709.6) Imagine our joy one day — the twins were about ten years old — when the spirit of worship made its first contact with the mind of the female twin and shortly thereafter with the male. We knew that something closely akin to human mind was approaching culmination; and when, about a year later, they finally resolved, as a result of meditative thought and purposeful decision, to flee from home and journey north, then did the spirit of wisdom begin to function on Urantia and in these two now recognized human minds.

^62:6.6 ^(709.7) There was an immediate and new order of mobilization of the seven adjutant mind-spirits. We were alive with expectation; we realized that the long-waited-for hour was approaching; we knew we were upon the threshold of the realization of our protracted effort to evolve will creatures on Urantia.”

So is atheism a biologic retrogression of the human mind, or is it a choice? The answer might be different for each atheist, but we should all be concerned if it is a biologic retrogression that is erasing an evolutionary achievement made about a million years ago.
VernParticipant
Jul 23, 2015, 1:53 AM

Mara wrote: The word “godless” is a word of your choice. It is not a word I have used in this discussion.

Hi Mara, “godless” was the word you used, see below.

Mara wrote: The godless person can behave in ways that seem “spiritual” to others who know him or her…

Anyway, no worries. Each person works things out as best they can. The once rebellious teenager becomes a stable respectable citizen, home-maker and parent of the next generation.
MaraParticipant
Jul 23, 2015, 5:12 AM

Vern wrote: Hi Mara, “godless” was the word you used

Ah, you are right! It’s an oops on my part.! Tonight at study group we read about a private meeting arranged by Andrew to be held at the home of Flavuis between Jesus and Nicodemus, an elderly and wealthy member of the Sanhedrin. He had a sincere interest in Jesus’ teachings regarding the coming kingdom and plied Jesus with questions. He was also guarded about being seen with Jesus in public and that’s why he wanted this private meeting. At one point Nicodemus asks:

(142:6:7 ) […] “But how can I begin to lay hold upon this spirit which is to remake me in preparation for entering into the kingdom?” Jesus answered: “Already does the spirit of the Father in heaven indwell you. If you would be led by this spirit from above, very soon would you begin to see with the eyes of the spirit, and then by the wholehearted choice of spirit guidance would you be born of the spirit since your only purpose in living would be to do the will of your Father who is in heaven. And so finding yourself born of the spirit and happily in the kingdom of God, you would begin to bear in your daily life the abundant fruits of the spirit.”

Getting into the kingdom of heaven, kingdom of God, the spiritual brotherhood, and so on, requires a wholehearted choice of spirit guidance, becoming born of the spirit in which the chief desire in life is to do the will of our Father in heaven.

Jesus explained to Nicodemus the kingdom of heaven was an evolutionary experience. I thought I already knew this, but in reading it again it stands out to me.

( 142:7:3 ) Very plainly Jesus explained that the kingdom of heaven was an evolutionary experience, beginning here on earth and progressing up through successive life stations to Paradise. In the course of the evening he definitely stated that at some future stage of kingdom development he would revisit this world in spiritual power and divine glory.
VernParticipant
Jul 23, 2015, 5:13 AM

Mara wrote: It seems to me you believe everyone, even the atheist, is a member of the spiritual brotherhood! I disagree. I think the spiritual brotherhood is very specific. Faith is the price of admission. The atheist, the secularist, the humanist, the materialist, and others who frankly say God does not exist are not members of the spiritual brotherhood.

Mara, great that we have this wonderful opportunity to honestly examine what each of us thinks on the subject. I’m of the view all are called to accept the gift of sonship and agree with you that membership within the spiritual brotherhood is by faith. However, in my estimation from what you say, you seem to be placing a premium on “informed” faith validated by personal experience of knowing God.

Let me give you and example in The Urantia Book of a group who I think, both, you and I, would agree are members of the spiritual brotherhood—The Reserve Corps of Destiny. Reservists we are told are competent and have qualities of dependability—trustworthiness—which qualify their membership. Regarding requisite spirituality, reservists all have self-acting Thought Adjusters. I suggest, if we want to know more about what qualifies membership of spiritual brotherhood, a revision of the work of self-acting Adjusters would be worthwhile.

…It is the general practice in the conduct of the affairs of the ascension plans to begin this liaison utilization of mortal will creatures immediately they are competent and trustworthy to assume such responsibilities. Accordingly, as soon as men and women appear on the stage of temporal action with sufficient mental capacity, adequate moral status, and requisite spirituality, they are quickly assigned to the appropriate celestial group of planetary personalities as human liaisons, mortal assistants. ^[Paper ^{114:7.1, page 1257:1]}

Reservists manifest characteristics of balanced personalities, most have attained the higher psychic circles. They have mental capacity, morality and spirituality.

…All reservists have self-conscious Adjusters, and most of them function in the higher cosmic circles of intellectual achievement and spiritual attainment. ^[Paper^{114:7.2, page 1257:2]}

Interestingly, basis of selection is not necessarily related to spiritual activities, rather practical service to their fellows.

Wholehearted dedication to some special social, economic, political, spiritual, or other cause, coupled with willingness to serve without human recognition and rewards. ^[Paper^{114:7.5, page 1257:5]}

Willingness to serve without human recognition is a quality of selflessness that characterises brotherly love, an attribute of spiritual brotherhood. Just as in my previous post I highlighted that sincerity, sincerity and more sincerity, are the keys to the kingdom, which all people have in varying measure. If The Urantia Book states “sincerity” is a key to the kingdom, I would sincerely question the motive of a person who would dispute this. Why?

The spiritual brotherhood is characterised by unity. The kind of unity that was evident shortly after Pentecost prior to the formalisation into the Christian religion and resulting confusion and erroneous teaching that membership of the church was synonymous with the spiritual brotherhood, it is not. The spiritual brotherhood is invisible and evidenced by the fruit of faith.

…The true church — the Jesus brotherhood — is invisible, spiritual, and is characterized by unity, not necessarily by uniformity. Uniformity is the earmark of the physical world of mechanistic nature. Spiritual unity is the fruit of faith union with the living Jesus. The visible church should refuse longer to handicap the progress of the invisible and spiritual brotherhood of the kingdom of God. And this brotherhood is destined to become a living organism in contrast to an institutionalized social organization. It may well utilize such social organizations, but it must not be supplanted by them. ^[Paper^{195:10.11, page 2085:3]}

A living organism cannot be confined by arbitrary boundaries of pre-existant groupings for it encompasses the whole family of man. Jesus may have been born into Jewish culture but his religion was for the inhabitants of the whole planet. Our brotherly affection is intended to be, likewise, boundless.

Knowing the bloody history of Christianity should be an inspiration, not a hinderance, to appreciating the hard won victories of combined moral genius of the God-knowing men of many races during many ages. The society in which we live is the result of this heroism. To continue as one of the greatest powers for good on earth, Christianity still has more to do. It still moves minds with reflective capacity and depth of moral feeling.

But the Christianity of even the twentieth century must not be despised. It is the product of the combined moral genius of the God-knowing men of many races during many ages, and it has truly been one of the greatest powers for good on earth, and therefore no man should lightly regard it, notwithstanding its inherent and acquired defects. Christianity still contrives to move the minds of reflective men with mighty moral emotions. ^[Paper^{195:10.12, page 2085:4]}

The spiritual purpose must be uppermost, the Gospel truth freely given, is to be freely shared, with all truth seekers irrespective of where they come from. How dare an institution which has betrayed its purpose attempt to smother the very faith it proclaims when a truth bearer appears in a form that does not match a standard pre-conception.

But there is no excuse for the involvement of the church in commerce and politics; such unholy alliances are a flagrant betrayal of the Master. And the genuine lovers of truth will be slow to forget that this powerful institutionalized church has often dared to smother newborn faith and persecute truth bearers who chanced to appear in unorthodox raiment. ^[Paper^{195:10.13, page 2085:5]}

Believers who still crave an ancient and authoritative religion of ritual and sacred traditions, those who find it hard to dispense with religious authority are included within the greater family of spiritual brotherhood. The requisite is willingness to become truly spirit-led sons of God.

It is all too true that such a church would not have survived unless there had been men in the world who preferred such a style of worship. Many spiritually indolent souls crave an ancient and authoritative religion of ritual and sacred traditions. Human evolution and spiritual progress are hardly sufficient to enable all men to dispense with religious authority. And the invisible brotherhood of the kingdom may well include these family groups of various social and temperamental classes if they are only willing to become truly spirit-led sons of God. But in this brotherhood of Jesus there is no place for sectarian rivalry, group bitterness, nor assertions of moral superiority and spiritual infallibility. ^[Paper ^{195:10.14, page 2085.6]}

Mara, I am convinced the spiritual brotherhood is invisible and open to anyone who, by faith, accepts sonship with God.

Mara, If you look at all the references of “winning souls for the Kingdom” at the time of Jesus and the apostles, those souls were being welcomed into the spiritual brotherhood, a group of religionists that has varied in number and been active throughout history (…combined moral genius of the God-knowing men of many races during many ages). Surely, knowing of the role of seraphic ministry in shaping human affairs, it’s consistent with the fact the spiritual brotherhood has been in place for a long time. I’m thinking, with the advent of the Fifth Epochal Revelation those numbers are bound to increase exponentially. The next hundred years are going to be exciting and probably turbulent, as Michael’s sovereignty over Urantia assures itself through dynamic service action of the truth motivated, spiritually sustained, Jesus brotherhood.
MaraParticipant
Jul 23, 2015, 5:54 AM

Sabinatu wrote: So is atheism a biologic retrogression of the human mind, or is it a choice? The answer might be different for each atheist, but we should all be concerned if it is a biologic retrogression that is erasing an evolutionary achievement made about a million years ago.

Actually, the mobilization of the adjutant kind-spirits in Andon and Fonta was a huge leap forward, not a retrogression, at least as far a mind was concerned. They made an elaborate plan and decision, a choice, to flee their tribe. Theirs was the very first appearance of “man-mind”. (63:0:2 ) To go with God or to reject him is always a choice. Mind is the arena where such a choice is made. (111:1:0 ) the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, but it is the gateway to it. (155:6:1 )

When the highest level of biologic evolution is attained on a world, a Material Son and Daughter is sent.

52:3:1 When the original impetus of evolutionary life has run its biologic course, when man has reached the apex of animal development, there arrives the second order of sonship, and the second dispensation of grace and ministry is inaugurated. This is true on all evolutionary worlds. When the highest possible level of evolutionary life has been attained, when primitive man has ascended as far as possible in the biologic scale, a Material Son and Daughter always appear on the planet, having been dispatched by the System Sovereign.

Our physical organism (0:5:7) was upstepped with the addition of the contributions of the violet race. By my way of thinking atheism is not a biologic retrogression. It’s a decision a person makes.
SabinatuBlocked
Jul 23, 2015, 6:13 AM
I am confused, Mara. I thought I provided text from the TUB that clearly said it was a great mind achievement, not a retrogression…?

Moving on in agreement that Andon and Fonta were the apex of biologic achievement of mind, I am speculating that maybe for some current atheists, their atheism IS a biologic regression of mind

and not a choice?

Neither humans nor Life Carriers are the reason there is so much “wrong” with the human species, which is why much care needs to be taken in judging the causes of retrogressions, whether material or spiritual. The tragic defaults of our biologic uplifters did introduce much into human health that is definitely not God’s Will for his children.

I also agree with you that stating that ALL atheists show better fruits than “believers” is going too far.
MaraParticipant
Jul 23, 2015, 6:17 AM

Vern wrote:. . . what you say, you seem to be placing a premium on “informed” faith validated by personal experience of knowing God.

Yes, it is the personal experience of knowing God. A person can personally experience God anytime, anywhere, whether the person is affiliated with a religious institution or not. What I am wondering is whether or not the kingdom of heaven as envisioned and promulgated by Jesus, not as promulgated by the church, exceeds by leaps and bounds every other monotheistic religion on the face of the earth, and if it does, then is the invisible spiritual brotherhood exclusive to those who have born again of the spirit or who have naturally been raised from childhood knowing Jesus?
SabinatuBlocked
Jul 23, 2015, 6:28 AM

Mara wrote:

Vern wrote:. . . what you say, you seem to be placing a premium on “informed” faith validated by personal experience of knowing God.

Yes, it is the personal experience of knowing God. A person can personally experience God anytime, anywhere, whether the person is affiliated with a religious institution or not. What I am wondering is whether or not the kingdom of heaven as envisioned and promulgated by Jesus, not as promulgated by the church, exceeds by leaps and bounds every other monotheistic religion on the face of the earth, and if it does, then is the invisible spiritual brotherhood exclusive to those who have born again of the spirit or who have naturally been raised from childhood knowing Jesus?

Why should it be an either/or situation when the Spirit of Truth is not denied to anyone – it flows like sunshine.
MaraParticipant
Jul 23, 2015, 6:30 AM

Sabinatu wrote: I am confused, Mara. I thought I provided text from the TUB that clearly said it was a great mind achievement, not a retrogression…? Moving on in agreement that Andon and Fonta were the apex of biologic achievement of mind, I am speculating that maybe for some current atheists, their atheism IS a biologic regression of mind and not a choice?

I’m sorry if I misunderstood you. I thought you were asking if it was a retrogression or a choice.
SabinatuBlocked
Jul 23, 2015, 6:41 AM
The inability to “know” God as a person might well be a biologic retrogression, a spiritual “autism”, if you will. Not the person’s fault.

But choosing NOT to know God becomes that person’s personal religion and that is the paradox of “religion” – everyone is going to construct a personal religion sooner or later
VernParticipant
Jul 23, 2015, 9:46 AM

Sabinatu wrote:…an immediate and new order of mobilization of the seven adjutant mind-spirits. We were alive with expectation; we realized that the long-waited-for hour was approaching; we knew we were upon the threshold of the realization of our protracted effort to evolve will creatures on Urantia.

Hello Sabinatu really good to have you participate in this topic thread on spiritual brotherhood, greetings.

Sabinatu wrote: This has been a very interesting thread.

I’m glad you find it so.

Sabinatu wrote: I wanted to introduce a different perspective on the atheist question – whether they are in the spiritual brotherhood, or not – based on the Andon and Fonta story…

What you are putting forward for consideration as I see it, is the “default” mind-scape setting resulting from the combined Adjutant mind spirit ministry. Before delving further, I think you are going too far back when you attempt to go almost a million years back in time and evolution, a lot has happened spiritually since then which I think also needs to be considered when appraising the human unit and what motivates the average person. As you well know we share the first five of the seven Adjutants with our animal cousins. These five are considered nonspiritual energy systems—material mind systems—the last two, wisdom and worship are what differentiate us from animals because of the transcending creative capacity of spirit identification with the activation of the full seven. This signalled the existence on Urantia of mind of will dignity. Registered Urantia as an inhabited world, 606 of Satania.

Here is the message of the chief of the archangel corps at the time, transmitted over the mind circuit automatically established with the first decision of human mind:

“To the Life Carriers on Urantia — Greetings! We transmit assurance of great pleasure on Salvington, Edentia, and Jerusem in honor of the registration on the headquarters of Nebadon of the signal of the existence on Urantia of mind of will dignity. The purposeful decision of the twins to flee northward and segregate their offspring from their inferior ancestors has been noted. This is the first decision of mind — the human type of mind — on Urantia and automatically establishes the circuit of communication over which this initial message of acknowledgment is transmitting.” ^[Paper ^{62:7.3, page 710.2]}

From that first decision the mind circuits have been humming ever since, as spirit has increasingly made contact with teachable human mind. In a mortal the lowest will creature.

…man — the lowest will creature. ^{(297.2)[Paper} ^{26:11.5, page 297:2]}

The functioning of the seven Adjutant mind spirits happens to correspond with the seventh psychic circle of spiritual individuality. Remember that it’s not possible to consider a person living today as beneficiary of only the Adjutant mind spirits, we have in fact the full compliment of seven sprit influences which I will detail further.

The seventh circle. This level is entered when human beings develop the powers of personal choice, individual decision, moral responsibility, and the capacity for the attainment of spiritual individuality. This signifies the united function of the seven adjutant mind-spirits under the direction of the spirit of wisdom, the encircuitment of the mortal creature in the influence of the Holy Spirit, and, on Urantia, the first functioning of the Spirit of Truth, together with the reception of a Thought Adjuster in the mortal mind. Entrance upon the seventh circle constitutes a mortal creature a truly potential citizen of the local universe. ^[Paper ^{110:6.13, page 1210:8]}

Of course, we must include the functioning of the additional spirit helpers, Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth and the Thought Adjuster. The process of weaning the mortal mind from its dependence on the realities of the material life mechanisms involves unified action of the seven adjutant mind-spirits.

From the seventh to the third circle there occurs increased and unified action of the seven adjutant mind-spirits in the task of weaning the mortal mind from its dependence on the realities of the material life mechanisms preparatory to increased introduction to morontia levels of experience. From the third circle onward the adjutant influence progressively diminishes. ^[Paper^{110:6.20, page 1211:5]}

Seventh circle mortals would be functioning in realms of highest purely animal levels and move inward as moral decisions are made.

The seven circles embrace mortal experience extending from the highest purely animal level to the lowest actual contactual morontia level of self-consciousness as a personality experience. The mastery of the first cosmic circle signalizes the attainment of premorontia mortal maturity and marks the termination of the conjoint ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits as an exclusive influence of mind action in the human personality. Beyond the first circle, mind becomes increasingly akin to the intelligence of the morontia stage of evolution, the conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit of a local universe. ^[Paper^{110:6.21, page 1211:6]}

In relation to the spiritual brotherhood, I’m thinking any person who has broken through into the third psychic circle has made the supreme decision to participate in the eternal life adventure and their soul is bearing witness with the Adjuster in mutually co-operative spiritual growth.

The great days in the individual careers of Adjusters are: first, when the human subject breaks through into the third psychic circle, thus insuring the Monitor’s self-activity and increased range of function (provided the indweller was not already self-acting); then, when the human partner attains the first psychic circle, and they are thereby enabled to intercommunicate, at least to some degree; and last, when they are finally and eternally fused. ^[Paper^{110:6.22, page 1212:1]}

Sabinatu wrote: So is atheism a biologic retrogression of the human mind, or is it a choice?

Sabinatu, based on what I’ve shared so far, my thinking is that a materialistically minded, God denying atheist would be working very hard resisting the spiritual call of the divine lover that indwells him or her.

Unless a divine lover lived in man, he could not unselfishly and spiritually love.… ^[Paper ^{196:3.16, page 2094:15]}

Attitudes of spiritual nonprogression cannot long persist because of the presence and influence of the indwelling Thought Adjusters. Since Pentecost, Adjusters have flocked to Urantia.

Moral evaluation with a religious meaning — spiritual insight — connotes the individual’s choice between good and evil, truth and error, material and spiritual, human and divine, time and eternity. Human survival is in great measure dependent on consecrating the human will to the choosing of those values selected by this spirit-value sorter — the indwelling interpreter and unifier. Personal religious experience consists in two phases: discovery in the human mind and revelation by the indwelling divine spirit. Through oversophistication or as a result of the irreligious conduct of professed religionists, a man, or even a generation of men, may elect to suspend their efforts to discover the God who indwells them; they may fail to progress in and attain the divine revelation. But such attitudes of spiritual nonprogression cannot long persist because of the presence and influence of the indwelling Thought Adjusters. ^[Paper^{196:3.17, page 2095:1]}

The subjective religious experience of loving and being loved in return is fundamental to personality reality. A moral choice constitutes a divine invasion in the soul of the chooser.

Every time man makes a reflective moral choice, he immediately experiences a new divine invasion of his soul. Moral choosing constitutes religion as the motive of inner response to outer conditions. But such a real religion is not a purely subjective experience. It signifies the whole of the subjectivity of the individual engaged in a meaningful and intelligent response to total objectivity — the universe and its Maker. ^[Paper^{196:3.20, page 2095:4]}

Contact with highest objective reality, God, is only through subjective experience of knowing him.

The exquisite and transcendent experience of loving and being loved is not just a psychic illusion because it is so purely subjective. The one truly divine and objective reality that is associated with mortal beings, the Thought Adjuster, functions to human observation apparently as an exclusively subjective phenomenon. Man’s contact with the highest objective reality, God, is only through the purely subjective experience of knowing him, of worshiping him, of realizing sonship with him. ^[Paper^{196:3.21, page 2095:5]}

Sabinatu, with this reply to your question which was specifically about the Adjutant mind spirits, I have expanded to include the full complement of spiritual endowments which we now enjoy the benefit of, the Spirit of Truth was the the last, designed to aid in the ascending search for God. To be accurate we must assess what we have motivating each and every one of us as we live, now.

Since the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth, man is subject to the teaching and guidance of a threefold spirit endowment: the spirit of the Father, the Thought Adjuster; the spirit of the Son, the Spirit of Truth; the spirit of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit. ^[Paper^{194:2.11, page 2061:9]}

From the times of Andon and Fonta there has been progressive contact of the seven adjutant mind-spirits of the local universe Mother Spirit. Progress over time has resulted in movement upward in the scale of intelligence and spiritual perception. Hovering over us and dwelling within us are seven higher spirit influences which need to be taken into account.

In a way, mankind is subject to the double influence of the sevenfold appeal of the universe spirit influences. The early evolutionary races of mortals are subject to the progressive contact of the seven adjutant mind-spirits of the local universe Mother Spirit. As man progresses upward in the scale of intelligence and spiritual perception, there eventually come to hover over him and dwell within him the seven higher spirit influences. And these seven spirits of the advancing worlds are: ^[Paper^{194:2.12, page 2062:1]}

1. The bestowed spirit of the Universal Father — the Thought Adjusters. ^[Paper^{194:2.13, page 2062:2]}

2. The spirit presence of the Eternal Son — the spirit gravity of the universe of universes and the certain channel of all spirit communion. ^[Paper^{194:2.14, page 2062:3]}

3. The spirit presence of the Infinite Spirit — the universal spirit-mind of all creation, the spiritual source of the intellectual kinship of all progressive intelligences. ^[Paper^{194:2.15, page 2062:4]}

4. The spirit of the Universal Father and the Creator Son — the Spirit of Truth, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Son. ^[Paper^{194:2.16, page 2062:5]}

5. The spirit of the Infinite Spirit and the Universe Mother Spirit — the Holy Spirit, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Spirit. ^[Paper^{194:2.17, page 2062:6]}

6. The mind-spirit of the Universe Mother Spirit — the seven adjutant mind-spirits of the local universe. ^[Paper^{194:2.18, page 2062:7]}

7. The spirit of the Father, Sons, and Spirits — the new-name spirit of the ascending mortals of the realms after the fusion of the mortal spirit-born soul with the Paradise Thought Adjuster and after the subsequent attainment of the divinity and glorification of the status of the Paradise Corps of the Finality. ^[Paper^{194:2.19, page 2062:8]}

And so did the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth bring to the world and its peoples the last of the spirit endowment designed to aid in the ascending search for God. ^[Paper^{194:2.20, page 2062:9]}

Interesting to note that the spirit presence of the Infinite Spirit is the universal spirit-mind of all creation, the spiritual source of the intellectual kinship of all progressive intelligences. Intellectual kinship is the unifying spirit of brotherhood.
MaraParticipant
Jul 23, 2015, 3:27 PM

Sabinatu wrote: The inability to “know” God as a person might well be a biologic retrogression, a spiritual “autism”, if you will. Not the person’s fault.

Or is the inability to know God a physical or mental situation, not a spiritual one? If the individual doesn’t have the equipment, physically or mentally, it’s considered among the animals of the realm, as neither the mind-spirit adjutants of worship or wisdom could register.

P.1468 – §3 One day while resting at lunch, about halfway to Tarentum, Ganid asked Jesus a direct question as to what he thought of India’s caste system. Said Jesus: “Though human beings differ in many ways, the one from another, before God and in the spiritual world all mortals stand on an equal footing. There are only two groups of mortals in the eyes of God: those who desire to do his will and those who do not. As the universe looks upon an inhabited world, it likewise discerns two great classes: those who know God and those who do not. Those who cannot know God are reckoned among the animals of any given realm. Mankind can appropriately be divided into many classes in accordance with differing qualifications, as they may be viewed physically, mentally, socially, vocationally, or morally, but as these different classes of mortals appear before the judgment bar of God, they stand on an equal footing; God is truly no respecter of persons. Although you cannot escape the recognition of differential human abilities and endowments in matters intellectual, social, and moral, you should make no such distinctions in the spiritual brotherhood of men when assembled for worship in the presence of God.”
MaraParticipant
Jul 23, 2015, 3:56 PM

Vern wrote:[Paper194:2.12, page 2062:1] In a way, mankind is subject to the double influence of the sevenfold appeal of the universe spirit influences. The early evolutionary races of mortals are subject to the progressive contact of the seven adjutant mind-spirits of the local universe Mother Spirit. As man progresses upward in the scale of intelligence and spiritual perception, there eventually come to hover over him and dwell within him the seven higher spirit influences. And these seven spirits of the advancing worlds are . . . .

Thanks for sharing this. It’s amazing how much help humankind is given! The gifts are truly jaw-dropping when they are laid out end-to-end as presented in your reference! And in reviewing the list of these divine spiritual ministries, I am reminded that to us as individuals they are experienced as one and cannot be segregated.

( 8:5:4 ) There are many spiritual influences, and they are all as one. Even the work of the Thought Adjusters, though independent of all other influences, unvaryingly coincides with the spirit ministry of the combined influences of the Infinite Spirit and a local universe Mother Spirit. As these spiritual presences operate in the lives of Urantians, they cannot be segregated. In your minds and upon your souls they function as one spirit, notwithstanding their diverse origins. And as this united spiritual ministration is experienced, it becomes to you the influence of the Supreme, “who is ever able to keep you from failing and to present you blameless before your Father on high.”
SabinatuBlocked
Jul 23, 2015, 9:58 PM

Sabinatu wrote:

This has been a very interesting thread. I wanted to introduce a different perspective on the atheist question – whether they are in the spiritual brotherhood, or not – based on the Andon and Fonta story, one of the unique revelations of human history that has been lost to us until now…here is some of the story as presented in TUB: ““6. Evolution of the Human Mind ^62:6.1 ^(709.2) We, the Life Carriers on Urantia, had passed through the long vigil of watchful waiting since the day we first planted the life plasm in the planetary waters, and naturally the appearance of the first really intelligent and volitional beings brought to us great joy and supreme satisfaction. ^62:6.2 ^(709.3) We had been watching the twins develop mentally through our observation of the functioning of the seven adjutant mind-spirits assigned to Urantia at the time of our arrival on the planet. Throughout the long evolutionary development of planetary life, these tireless mind ministers had ever registered their increasing ability to contact with the successively expanding brain capacities of the progressively superior animal creatures. ^62:6.3 ^(709.4) At first only the spirit of intuition could function in the instinctive and reflex behavior of the primordial animal life. With the differentiation of higher types, the spirit of understanding was able to endow such creatures with the gift of spontaneous association of ideas. Later on we observed the spirit of courage in operation; evolving animals really developed a crude form of protective self-consciousness. Subsequent to the appearance of the mammalian groups, we beheld the spirit of knowledge manifesting itself in increased measure. And the evolution of the higher mammals brought the function of the spirit of counsel, with the resulting growth of the herd instinct and the beginnings of primitive social development. ^62:6.4 ^(709.5) Increasingly, on down through the dawn mammals, the mid-mammals, and the Primates, we had observed the augmented service of the first five adjutants. But never had the remaining two, the highest mind ministers, been able to function in the Urantia type of evolutionary mind. ^62:6.5 ^(709.6) Imagine our joy one day — the twins were about ten years old — when the spirit of worship made its first contact with the mind of the female twin and shortly thereafter with the male. We knew that something closely akin to human mind was approaching culmination; and when, about a year later, they finally resolved, as a result of meditative thought and purposeful decision, to flee from home and journey north, then did the spirit of wisdom begin to function on Urantia and in these two now recognized human minds. ^62:6.6 ^(709.7) There was an immediate and new order of mobilization of the seven adjutant mind-spirits. We were alive with expectation; we realized that the long-waited-for hour was approaching; we knew we were upon the threshold of the realization of our protracted effort to evolve will creatures on Urantia.” So is atheism a biologic retrogression of the human mind, or is it a choice? The answer might be different for each atheist, but we should all be concerned if it is a biologic retrogression that is erasing an evolutionary achievement made about a million years ago.”

Thank you for the personal hello, Vern. I felt the need to repost my first post because there seems to be some confusion – not sure what device you and Mara are using, but on my device, it is as clear as it can be that I cut and pasted a section from The Urantia Book where the Life Carrier author was speaking….hope that is finally cleared up?

It was a BIG DEAL, for the Life Carriers, to succeed at evolving a free will human being BEFORE the appearance of the colored races and that happened about a million years ago. It is scientifically valid to go back that far when speculating today about whether self-proclaimed atheists have embraced their beliefs with human free will, or whether they lack the biology to connect to the wisdom and worship mind adjutants. Not all of Andon and Fonta’s progeny became human.

And I am not the only one who has looked around me at the “diversity” of humanity operating in a “greed is good” environment here in USA and wondered about the spiritual differentials…I am trying to wrestle with the ambitious question proposed here for discussion – “What is spiritual brotherhood?” – and I went back to the baseline data – Andon and Fonta.

Following is a cut and paste from the Urantia Book:

^110:4.6 ^(1207.6) For many thousands of years, so the records of Jerusem show, in each generation there have lived fewer and fewer beings who could function safely with self-acting Adjusters. This is an alarming picture, and the supervising personalities of Satania look with favor upon the proposals of some of your more immediate planetary supervisors who advocate the inauguration of measures designed to foster and conserve the higher spiritual types of the Urantia races.

-end of Urantia Book quote-

So why are we trying to figure out who is in or out of the spiritual brotherhood – is it in order to CONSERVE the higher spiritual types of the Urantia races or is it to round them up and diminish their numbers? Thinking about Stalin and his atheist Russia….not as if the “greed is good” gang in USA is any better – spiritually speaking – than Mr. Stalin and his merry band of atheists.
AnonymousInactive
Jul 24, 2015, 2:35 AM

Sabinatu wrote:

So why are we trying to figure out who is in or out of the spiritual brotherhood – is it in order to CONSERVE the higher spiritual types of the Urantia races or is it to round them up and diminish their numbers? Thinking about Stalin and his atheist Russia….not as if the “greed is good” gang in USA is any better – spiritually speaking – than Mr. Stalin and his merry band of atheists.

Interesting thought, “Sabinatu” where in my opinion, I believe the theme of the “Spiritual Brotherhood” in this topic is for the individuals understanding as to their recognition or acknowledgement as to whether they can ascertain the signs of the working of that spiritual brotherhood, and its, so called membership, therein? These sign’s, if you will, are of an individual personal nature or recognition, in that many have wondered as to any ability to being connected to a cosmic mind which can be recognized, and in what way’s these signs might manifest themselves? However, indirectly if by understanding that one is among the spiritual brotherhood, they would not acknowledge themselves as such, therefore not having anything to be worried about, by being included in this brother- sister-hood, from others who through the fruits of their actions or thoughts would not be subjected to that which you have mentioned above.
VernParticipant
Jul 24, 2015, 3:36 AM

Sabinatu wrote: planetary supervisors who advocate the inauguration of measures designed to foster and conserve the higher spiritual types of the Urantia races.

Sabinatu, I detect from your response to my reply to your original post you have justifiable concerns at the manifestation of greed in our current competitive capitalist society. With the gift of revelation and the comfort such information brings, it is my conviction that we should be strengthened in our faith to that extent that we are sustained by confident inner peace. No matter that around us is a growing social crisis, we live in a society not an economy. To the God knowing believer, what does it matter if things earthly crash?

Remember, Michael has already won the prize of sovereignty of his own creation and we are beneficiaries of the rewards of that victory. The plan to conserve the higher spiritual types of the Urantia races is ongoing you can rest assured of that. The worst of the material age is over, we are at the dawn of a better understanding.

At the time of this writing the worst of the materialistic age is over; the day of a better understanding is already beginning to dawn. The higher minds of the scientific world are no longer wholly materialistic in their philosophy, but the rank and file of the people still lean in that direction as a result of former teachings. But this age of physical realism is only a passing episode in man’s life on earth.… ^[Paper ^{195:6.4, page 2076:9]}

Well you remind us of the tragic loss to the human gene pool—Adamic life plasm—by the senseless slaughter of war and violent oppression. Unfortunately these harsh lessons are still to be learned by mankind. With an attitude that there are no problems, only solutions, just like house-cleaning, we can work to put things right, one room at a time. Social evolution is slow but it is the surest way to progress—there are no short cuts.

Relax, fear not, be of good cheer, we live in a friendly universe and help is within each one of us and around us, to take us to that place of self-mastery where we take delight in bearing each other’s burdens—the spiritual brotherhood—faith sons and faith daughters of the Father.

The appearance of genuine brotherhood signifies that a social order has arrived in which all men delight in bearing one another’s burdens; they actually desire to practice the golden rule.… ^[Paper ^{71:4.16, page 804:16]}

Sabinatu, in my response to your original question regarding the retrogressive attempt of the “atheist” to live at a materialistic/animalistic level, I was attempting to communicate that because of the combined spirit ministry which includes the seven Adjutants, he/she cannot do it. The fact of this largely unconscious spirit ministry with which each person functions, the “atheist” as person, uses the very substance that makes personhood valid to deny himself/herself, in all honesty, it can’t be done.

The sincere effort of man to become a mechanist represents the tragic phenomenon of that man’s futile effort to commit intellectual and moral suicide. But he cannot do it. ^([Paper ^{195:7.10, page 2079.5]}

In all this, the certainty of the believer, stands in stark contrast to the insecurity of the unbeliever. Informed faith is fearless and mightily challenges the fearful doubts of the ignorant unbeliever. Loving service is the soothing balm to quell the storm of confusion that swirls in the mind of the unbeliever—lost soul seeking safe harbour. There is great satisfaction in guiding a lost brother or sister to the safe harbour of sonship with God.

Sabinatu, seeing you mentioned the animal level of existence in your original post, I will finish with some words arising from that realm of the senses. Animals respond to life in nature humans respond to life in society, animals share the Adjutant mind ministry with humans yet humans have the benefit of additional spirit ministry which differentiates them from animals—qualifies them as ascending sons of God. It is the task of combined experiential evolution and revelation to achieve acceptance of the fact of sonship with God. To get mankind to that stage of social evolution where we cease to resist spirit guidance.

If we are to elevate ourselves above animal existence we must respond to the “lure of maturity,” which is another way of responding to the divine call of the Thought Adjuster imprisoned in the mind who is yearning for contact with the beckoning call; “be you perfect as God is perfect.”

…If the evolution of the art of living fails to keep pace with the technique of existence, humanity will quickly revert to the simple urge of living — the attainment of the satisfaction of present desires. Thus will humanity remain immature; society will fail in growing up to full maturity. ^[Paper ^{160:1.3, page 1772:4]}

We live in a increasingly complex and confused world where the art of living needs to be remastered in less time than previously, perhaps every single generation. This requires maturity sufficient to choose superior longings over present desires.

Social maturity is equivalent to the degree to which man is willing to surrender the gratification of mere transient and present desires for the entertainment of those superior longings the striving for whose attainment affords the more abundant satisfactions of progressive advancement toward permanent goals.… ^[Paper ^{160:1.4, page 1773:1]}

By gaining insight into origins and destiny can the lure of maturity achieve the goal of progressive society. Animals are naturally noble, man must use the essence of that nobility within himself, courage, intuition, counsel, to elevate himself to the nobility of sonship with the Creator of it all, men and animals.

Animals respond nobly to the urge of life, but only man can attain the art of living, albeit the majority of mankind only experience the animal urge to live. Animals know only this blind and instinctive urge; man is capable of transcending this urge to natural function. Man may elect to live upon the high plane of intelligent art, even that of celestial joy and spiritual ecstasy. Animals make no inquiry into the purposes of life; therefore they never worry, neither do they commit suicide. Suicide among men testifies that such beings have emerged from the purely animal stage of existence, and to the further fact that the exploratory efforts of such human beings have failed to attain the artistic levels of mortal experience. Animals know not the meaning of life; man not only possesses capacity for the recognition of values and the comprehension of meanings, but he also is conscious of the meaning of meanings — he is self-conscious of insight. ^[Paper ^{160:1.5, page 1773.2]}

Mature people view immature people with the affection of a parent.

The mature human being soon begins to look upon all other mortals with feelings of tenderness and with emotions of tolerance. Mature men view immature folks with the love and consideration that parents bear their children. ^[Paper ^{160:1.6, page 1773.3]}

From this example you can pretty well conclude that the spiritual brotherhood is comprised of mature people who appreciate the nobility their animal legacy, have mastery over raw courage and quick reflex and wisely interpret keenness of intuition, delight in the insight of being alive and what it signifies. The reason for living is the experience of life itself—the joy of life. Jesus came to teach us this simple fact.

…He came that we all might have life and have it more abundantly. ^[Paper ^{157:6.2, page 1749:1]}

I would go further and say the spiritual brotherhood comprises individuals who love life.
MaraParticipant
Jul 24, 2015, 6:00 AM

Sabinatu wrote: So why are we trying to figure out who is in or out of the spiritual brotherhood – is it in order to CONSERVE the higher spiritual types of the Urantia races or is it to round them up and diminish their numbers?

I started this thread as a study topic, because I was interested in it. It is a sincere question with no hidden agenda, such as the two ideas you mention: neither the conservation of the higher types you mention nor the diminution of their numbers. It’s not a political or economic issue. It isn’t a temporal issue. We don’t own it. We don’t control it. We don’t say who is in or who is out. And we can’t see it. We can talk to each other about it though, and discover new things about it via study of the UB, and share with each other our thoughts and insights. As likely as not, other themes of interest crop up, such as your ideas/questions about atheism.

.

Your original post ( #16214 ) appeared on my screen perfectly clearly with each UB reference showing the paper, section and paragraph for each sequential paragraph under the section you selected titled “6. Evolution of the Human Mind”. I don’t think anyone was confused about it visually. I, however, apparently didn’t understand your question relative to section 6. After citing the reference you asked, “So is atheism a biologic retrogression of the human mind, or is it a choice?” Then you expressed a concern you have when you said this: “The answer might be different for each atheist, but we should all be concerned if it is a biologic retrogression that is erasing an evolutionary achievement made about a million years ago.” Personally, I am not concerned about a biologic retrogression that is erasing an evolutionary achievement made about a million years ago, but I am willing to talk to you about it, if you could elaborate on your ideas. Maybe you could start a different thread on the topic. In general I do not subscribe to the idea of it, since the watchword of the universe is progress. Through long ages the human race has struggled to reach its present position. ( 4:1:2 )

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