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What is spiritual brotherhood?

234 posts · 7 participants · started Jun 18, 2015, 9:25 PM

SabinatuBlocked
Aug 4, 2015, 9:19 PM
@Bradley – I also entered my posts for analysis, did you enter yours?

But thanks for the opportunity to clear up misunderstandings…

1. I only entered the ONE post of Mara’s that addressed me directly, and you seem to be smart enough to figure out which one that is….temporally…

2. Since I joined the conversation, it has been MOSTLY Mara and Vern chiming in and now Mara admits that ignoring me going forward works for her the best.

Like everything else in this life – you’ll know it when you are in it….especially when it is “invisible” like the spiritual brotherhood…
BradlyParticipant
Aug 4, 2015, 9:43 PM
Mara wrote:

I have trouble understanding some of your remarks. I “get” the UB references. I often do not “get” your comments concerning the way you are thinking as related to those references. Sorry to be so dense. Maybe I’m just going to have to adjust to the fact that I’m not going to understand you, and move on.

Sabinatu wrote:

2. Since I joined the conversation, it has been MOSTLY Mara and Vern chiming in and now Mara admits that ignoring me going forward works for her the best.

Me here: I read no such admission. She apologized for being so “dense” (hahaha…) and confesses her inability to understand what you say (or truly, parts of what you say). I found her statement to be humble and tolerant myself and didn’t say anything approaching “ignoring” you going forward. But I am confident she will ignore such a clumsy and unfriendly claim.

I agree with your proposed solution to our world’s ills….spiritualization and personal religious experience. This re-prioritization will eventually lead us forward into greater mortal epochal progression. I do not think the mechanism of capitalism is the culprit for greed; that lies with the capitalist. Capitalism is the mechanical system of labor and craft specialization within an exchange mechanism which has resulted in rapid progress into a leisure class that delivers desirable opportunities for each world citizen. Unfortunately so far, that mechanism is dominated by a few very self centered people whose greed surpasses compassion and altruism. But the poor and working class themselves are demonstrating an increasing selflessness and philanthropy I find compelling and inspiring. And some very wealthy individuals are changing the face of generosity by wealth as well…..far fewer self named halls of self worship and more misquito nets and medicine and self sufficient ag and education, etc.

This planetary progress thing is very slow to tadpoles who live but a “moment” in epochal time frames. I am confident the Most Highs are quite successful in bringing the kingdom and the brotherhood into full fruition.

Peace and best wishes.

Yes, I ran two tests from two forums on myself….pretty consistent from one to the next….and interesting.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
SabinatuBlocked
Aug 4, 2015, 11:29 PM
Mara wrote, “I disagree. The conclusion you have reached is neither obvious, nor is your belief correct that no one else is going to do it. Let the Pope do his thing. Let science do its thing. I don’t understand why you are all wigged out about the Pope and our “biology” and the 6th and 7th adjutant mind-spirits. We are in a era of religion becoming a private matter. It is my opinion that private individuals like you and me who are motivated by the will to loving service are the ones who are going to do it and be it – the tide that lifts all boats.”

Ok, let’s get into it, Bradley. EVERYONE can follow along in this thread, so far…

quick topic change – PLEASE, site Admins, stop downloading malware and also messing with my ability to post something I spent too much time on that I should know better than bother, but at some point, enough is enough…. so here is the first SCHTICK where I was CLEARLY talking about the JOB the Pope when I said that if HE does not do it, no one else will BECAUE THAT IS THE JOB OF THE POPE.
SabinatuBlocked
Aug 4, 2015, 11:57 PM
@Bradley – Mara’s conversation – directly with ME – consists of a series of posts where she was certain that I was WRONG, talking about stuff she was not interested in and or I was just spewing “poppycock” and finally where I fined tuned the “logic” enough to where neither one of those schticks was going to work, it was the internet equivalent of dismissing everything about the person – the person themselves as well as what they wrote – as being NOT understandable. When are you people going to stop doing THAT to people?

Face to face – if you say to a person, “I do NOT understand you”, Miss Manners even in today’s age, would tell you that that could only be a sane thing to say to another person’s face is if the next step in the interaction is “THIS is what I do not understand, can you clarify THIS point specifically…?”

In re-reading the entire thread, I apologize to midi for not getting into what would have been a much more interesting conversation with a person who did get where I was going and asked specific questions about the little piece of the post that s/he found interesting….

You, Bradley, seem to believe that you can elevate Mara to a status of sainthood that even SHE is not claiming to have and that is way too much pressure for her to continue to live up to and especially if she can only achieve it when someone else comes along to knock down another person for her to stay on the soap box. She is not perfect and neither am I – we had the conversation we had and it was, OBVIOUSLY, not what she was expecting but I certainly hope that she grasped the TRUTH that it will never be up to her, you, midi, Vern, even the Pope, or ME to decide who is in or out of the “spiritual brotherhood”.
SabinatuBlocked
Aug 5, 2015, 12:03 AM
@Larry Watkins – talk about being too high-maintenance….scheesh….
VernParticipant
Aug 5, 2015, 1:37 AM
Hello mara, thanks for initiating this topic and thanks to all who have participated in it. I have learned the following:
1. I had an erroneous view that people who claimed to be “atheists” could be of the spiritual brotherhood. Thanks for challenging me on that one mara. By definition, the spiritual brotherhood comprises belivers who are God knowing and are actively doing his will. A sincere moral person can be unconsciously co-operting with Adjuster leading by manifesting fruits of the spirit, however, it is my view now, that consciousness of sonship with the Father is that added factor of informed faith which enables the power fulcrum of the Spirit of Truth as a dynamic living experience of the believing personality.
2. Participation in this forum is small, its potential for good—wider appeal—is yet to be determined. If slow growth is the aim, that aim has been fully realised. However, slow growth must mean some growth. Yes, I know patience is a virtue, we are in for the long haul. I also know, if you love people they will draw near you.
3. Knowing also, spiritual brotherhood is characterised by unity, it does not reflect well when misunderstandings arise, rather than debating the idea, the character of participants is challenged. This teaches me, unity is still an ideal worth aiming for. Just as, while one of us is in chains, none is free.
Rather than getting into areas which are divisive, I was thinking of Shakespeare’s play “All’s well that ends well.”

A distraction (a change is as good as a holiday)

Play Summary

Helena, the low-born ward of a Spanish countess, is in love with the countess’s son Bertram, who is indifferent to her. Bertram goes to Paris to replace his late father as attendant to the ailing King of France. Helena, the daughter of a recently deceased doctor, follows Bertram, ostensibly to offer the King her services as a healer. The King is skeptical, and she guarantees the cure with her life: if he dies, she will be put to death, but if he lives, she may choose a husband from the court. The King is cured and Helena chooses Bertram, who rejects her, owing to her poverty and low status. The King forces him to marry her, but after the ceremony Bertram immediately goes to war in Italy without so much as a goodbye kiss. He says that he will only marry her after she has borne his child and wears his family ring. In Italy, Bertram is a successful warrior and also a successful seducer of local virgins. Helena follows him to Italy, befriends Diana, a virgin with whom Bertram is infatuated, and they arrange for Helena to take Diana’s place in bed. Diana obtains Bertram’s ring in exchange for one of Helena’s. In this way Helena, without Bertram’s knowledge, consummates their marriage and wears his ring. Helena returns to the Spanish countess, who is horrified at what her son has done, and claims Helena as her child in Bertram’s place. Helena fakes her death, and Bertram, thinking he is free of her, comes home. He tries to marry a local lord’s daughter, but Diana shows up and breaks up the engagement. Helena appears and explains the ring swap, announcing that she has fulfilled Bertram’s challenge; Bertram, impressed by all she has done to win him, swears his love to her. Thus all ends well. There is a subplot about Parolles, a disloyal associate of Bertram’s. A recurring theme throughout the play is the similarity between love and war – conquering/seducing/betraying/outmaneuvering.
BradlyParticipant
Aug 5, 2015, 1:12 PM
Bradly wrote:

I’ve known Mara for years and her patience and kindness and inclusion are rather legendary around the Forum and the Association.

I did not intend flattery by this acknowledgement of my perception of Mara’s character and qualities gained over the past years and I’ve never witnessed her on any soap box when studying the UB and exploring its lessons together. The machine “reading” was by the machine, not by me and I remain dubious as to the depth and quality of its character assessments (although it is fascinating in its perceptions). I have much to learn about friendliness I suppose but that was my only intent – not claiming sainthood for anyone.

I agree that the spiritual brotherhood is a corp of self selected ones, the whole group known only to those on-high, whose faith in God activates them in their motives, intentions, priorities, thoughts, choices and acts by the power of love into service to others. Often, such ones find others in the brotherhood and work in collaborations of mutual purpose and process bringing forth even more energy and power into service ministry. To the degree that they combine their sincerity with discernment, experience, and wisdom, this group assists in the elevation of our world and one another by such efforts of noble intention.

159:3.12 (1766.8) When my children once become self-conscious of the assurance of the divine presence, such a faith will expand the mind, ennoble the soul, reinforce the personality, augment the happiness, deepen the spirit perception, and enhance the power to love and be loved.

159:3.13 (1767.1) Teach all believers that those who enter the kingdom are not thereby rendered immune to the accidents of time or to the ordinary catastrophes of nature. Believing the gospel will not prevent getting into trouble, but it will insure that you shall be unafraid when trouble does overtake you. If you dare to believe in me and wholeheartedly proceed to follow after me, you shall most certainly by so doing enter upon the sure pathway to trouble. I do not promise to deliver you from the waters of adversity, but I do promise to go with you through all of them.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BradlyParticipant
Aug 5, 2015, 1:38 PM
99:7.5 (1093.3) Economic interdependence and social fraternity will ultimately conduce to brotherhood. Man is naturally a dreamer, but science is sobering him so that religion can presently activate him with far less danger of precipitating fanatical reactions. Economic necessities tie man up with reality, and personal religious experience brings this same man face to face with the eternal realities of an ever-expanding and progressing cosmic citizenship.

39:3.7 (433.1) 4. Ethical Sensitizers. It is the mission of these seraphim to foster and to promote the growth of creature appreciation of the morality of interpersonal relationships, for such is the seed and secret of the continued and purposeful growth of society and government, human or superhuman. These enhancers of ethical appreciation function anywhere and everywhere they may be of service, as volunteer counselors to the planetary rulers and as exchange teachers on the system training worlds. You will not, however, come under their full guidance until you reach the brotherhood schools on Edentia, where they will quicken your appreciation of those very truths of fraternity which you will even then be so earnestly exploring by the actual experience of living with the univitatia in the social laboratories of Edentia, the seventy satellites of the Norlatiadek capital.

117:4.5 (1284.1) Any isolated action of the personal parts of the finite is comparatively irrelevant to the eventual appearance of the Supreme Whole, but the whole is nonetheless dependent on the total acts of the manifold parts. The personality of the individual mortal is insignificant in the face of the total of Supremacy, but the personality of each human being represents an irreplaceable meaning-value in the finite; personality, having once been expressed, never again finds identical expression except in the continuing existence of that living personality.

117:4.6 (1284.2) And so, as we strive for self-expression, the Supreme is striving in us, and with us, for deity expression. As we find the Father, so has the Supreme again found the Paradise Creator of all things. As we master the problems of self-realization, so is the God of experience achieving almighty supremacy in the universes of time and space.

117:4.7 (1284.3) Mankind does not ascend effortlessly in the universe, neither does the Supreme evolve without purposeful and intelligent action. Creatures do not attain perfection by mere passivity, nor can the spirit of Supremacy factualize the power of the Almighty without unceasing service ministry to the finite creation.

117:4.8 (1284.4) The temporal relation of man to the Supreme is the foundation for cosmic morality, the universal sensitivity to, and acceptance of, duty. This is a morality which transcends the temporal sense of relative right and wrong; it is a morality directly predicated on the self-conscious creature’s appreciation of experiential obligation to experiential Deity. Mortal man and all other finite creatures are created out of the living potential of energy, mind, and spirit existent in the Supreme. It is upon the Supreme that the Adjuster-mortal ascender draws for the creation of the immortal and divine character of a finaliter. It is out of the very reality of the Supreme that the Adjuster, with the consent of the human will, weaves the patterns of the eternal nature of an ascending son of God.

117:4.9 (1284.5) The evolution of Adjuster progress in the spiritualizing and eternalizing of a human personality is directly productive of an enlargement of the sovereignty of the Supreme. Such achievements in human evolution are at the same time achievements in the evolutionary actualization of the Supreme. While it is true that creatures could not evolve without the Supreme, it is probably also true that the evolution of the Supreme can never be fully attained independent of the completed evolution of all creatures. Herein lies the great cosmic responsibility of self-conscious personalities: That Supreme Deity is in a certain sense dependent on the choosing of the mortal will. And the mutual progression of creature evolution and of Supreme evolution is faithfully and fully indicated to the Ancients of Days over the inscrutable mechanisms of universe reflectivity.

Me here: I think the brotherhood is those minds who purposefully live and strive to become ever more capable servants and citizens and cooperate with the Spirit within.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
SabinatuBlocked
Aug 5, 2015, 5:50 PM
@Vern wrote, “Knowing also, spiritual brotherhood is characterised by unity, it does not reflect well when misunderstandings arise, rather than debating the idea, the character of participants is challenged. This teaches me, unity is still an ideal worth aiming for. Just as, while one of us is in chains, none is free.”

Indeed.

Discerning and doing God’s Will on a planet seared with rebellion is WHY Michael of Nebadon chose Urantia for his last bestowal. Urantia provided the MAXIMUM CONTRAST between “what is God’s will” and what is NOT. A one liner REVEALED TRUTH in TUB oft forgotten/ignored and trotted out in the most cynical and perverse way by the people committing iniquity against others as “you need problems otherwise you would not become a better person”. Psychotic reasoning “interpreting” TUB?! That’s the new “Paul” leadership?

There had to be something about the opportunity in the USA for a “spiritual brotherhood” to function safely, as far as Midwayer Contact was concerned, otherwise TUB would not have landed in Chicago.

I speculate it was the CONTEXT, the philosophy, the SPIRIT, around which law and order was establishing itself in the rugged frontiers – my modern re-phrasing is this – EVERY human being has the GOD GIVEN RIGHT to make their life less miserable through honest work.

Here is the CONTEXT of “spiritual brotherhood” unity that still is the LIGHT and I am trotting it out because the list of “inexcusable” sins arising from “Greed is Good” is far longer than what people were fed up with in the “colonies”:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

cut and pasted from the CONTEXT for the “constitution” – “Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.”

Indeed, let FACTS be submitted to a candid world. “Greed is good” was crap – yes crap – heaved upon the “spiritual brotherhood”.

Just substitute “to throw off such a Government” with to “throw off these isms – Nihilism, Hedonism and their guiding spirit of Anarchy”.

BTW, this is not even remotely about “revenge”, or “karma” or about being the dutiful little sycophant wondering about just how much mayhem and misery will be enough for the committed capitalist “boss” who worships his math formula every day because it is factually true: “More misery for others = more $$$$ for ME ME ME”.

This is about REALITY.

Kind regards and peace out – message delivered, the time has come to be about the Father’s Business….
SabinatuBlocked
Aug 5, 2015, 7:15 PM
@Vern – one more thing – LOL

Never had to work that hard at catching and keeping a “man” in MODERN times as ambitious women had to struggle to do in the times of the Bard in England, for starters. A woman was elected King in the 15th century in the country of my ancestor pool, go figure.

Considering that the “quality” of the gene pool of refugees from WWII war torn Europe that was saved by seemingly miraculous events and landed in USA had no problem raising themselves and their children through education and merit and honest work EXPERIENCE in research fields – ie. the law, order and self-governance of “the greatest generation” who did NOT have a “greed is good” motto – it is a crying shame that there is not a work of fiction that immortalizes what that recent REALITY was.

There was no problem in finding someone new every day to “love” – and I am not talking about “sex”.

Who can you “love” in a “greed is good” absolutism driven society?! What is the psychology profile of people who DO fit in and find considerable material success in THAT kind of society? Would not generosity, sympathy, empathy, kindness, grace and charm Jesus-channeling be nothing other a game of wits used to hide the motives of iniquity? Rhetorical questions… things have gone way too far away from sanity and that seems to have been the motive all along – change the baseline of “sane” – no 6th and 7th Adjutant functioning needed.

OK, now I’m done.
BradlyParticipant
Aug 5, 2015, 9:12 PM
Sabinatu wrote:

Who can you “love” in a “greed is good” absolutism driven society?! What is the psychology profile of people who DO fit in and find considerable material success in THAT kind of society? Would not generosity, sympathy, empathy, kindness, grace and charm Jesus-channeling be nothing other a game of wits used to hide the motives of iniquity? Rhetorical questions…

Me here: While the questions may be rhetorical, they do fit into the topic at hand and we are given much instruction in the Urantia Book related to them by the Master and in his time. The UB describes many epochs of humanity’s progress through layer after layer of primitivism and fear based living (greed, hate, anger, and anxiety all being fear based and associated). I do not agree that there is less love or sincerity today than 80 years ago or 800. The profit motive is but another level of primitivism that delivers progressive opportunity for transcendence to an improved version of still more primitivism to still overcome….again and again – this is the nature of evolution.

But regardless of which view is the more accurate, we live when we live and where we live and must meet the challenge presented to our daily walk and material life to not just get along and “fit in”, but to live exemplary lives. Poverty and material success both deliver adequate hurdles and temptations for all to overcome by spiritization and transferring the seat of identity. Happiness eludes the self serving materialist, yet all yearn for happiness and peace of mind which is only derived as a fruit of the spirit.

Says the Master:

156:5.15 (1740.2) As the days pass, every true believer becomes more skillful in alluring his fellows into the love of eternal truth. Are you more resourceful in revealing goodness to humanity today than you were yesterday? Are you a better righteousness recommender this year than you were last year? Are you becoming increasingly artistic in your technique of leading hungry souls into the spiritual kingdom?

156:5.16 (1740.3) Are your ideals sufficiently high to insure your eternal salvation while your ideas are so practical as to render you a useful citizen to function on earth in association with your mortal fellows? In the spirit, your citizenship is in heaven; in the flesh, you are still citizens of the earth kingdoms. Render to the Caesars the things which are material and to God those which are spiritual.

156:5.17 (1740.4) The measure of the spiritual capacity of the evolving soul is your faith in truth and your love for man, but the measure of your human strength of character is your ability to resist the holding of grudges and your capacity to withstand brooding in the face of deep sorrow. Defeat is the true mirror in which you may honestly view your real self.

156:5.18 (1740.5) As you grow older in years and more experienced in the affairs of the kingdom, are you becoming more tactful in dealing with troublesome mortals and more tolerant in living with stubborn associates? Tact is the fulcrum of social leverage, and tolerance is the earmark of a great soul. If you possess these rare and charming gifts, as the days pass you will become more alert and expert in your worthy efforts to avoid all unnecessary social misunderstandings. Such wise souls are able to avoid much of the trouble which is certain to be the portion of all who suffer from lack of emotional adjustment, those who refuse to grow up, and those who refuse to grow old gracefully.

156:5.19 (1740.6) Avoid dishonesty and unfairness in all your efforts to preach truth and proclaim the gospel. Seek no unearned recognition and crave no undeserved sympathy. Love, freely receive from both divine and human sources regardless of your deserts, and love freely in return. But in all other things related to honor and adulation seek only that which honestly belongs to you.

156:5.20 (1740.7) The God-conscious mortal is certain of salvation; he is unafraid of life; he is honest and consistent. He knows how bravely to endure unavoidable suffering; he is uncomplaining when faced by inescapable hardship.

156:5.21 (1740.8) The true believer does not grow weary in well-doing just because he is thwarted. Difficulty whets the ardor of the truth lover, while obstacles only challenge the exertions of the undaunted kingdom builder.

178:1.4 (1930.1) Sonship in the kingdom, from the standpoint of advancing civilization, should assist you in becoming the ideal citizens of the kingdoms of this world since brotherhood and service are the cornerstones of the gospel of the kingdom. The love call of the spiritual kingdom should prove to be the effective destroyer of the hate urge of the unbelieving and war-minded citizens of the earthly kingdoms. But these material-minded sons in darkness will never know of your spiritual light of truth unless you draw very near them with that unselfish social service which is the natural outgrowth of the bearing of the fruits of the spirit in the life experience of each individual believer.

178:1.5 (1930.2) As mortal and material men, you are indeed citizens of the earthly kingdoms, and you should be good citizens, all the better for having become reborn spirit sons of the heavenly kingdom. As faith-enlightened and spirit-liberated sons of the kingdom of heaven, you face a double responsibility of duty to man and duty to God while you voluntarily assume a third and sacred obligation: service to the brotherhood of God-knowing believers.

178:1.17 (1932.2) Throughout the vicissitudes of life, remember always to love one another. Do not strive with men, even with unbelievers. Show mercy even to those who despitefully abuse you. Show yourselves to be loyal citizens, upright artisans, praiseworthy neighbors, devoted kinsmen, understanding parents, and sincere believers in the brotherhood of the Father’s kingdom. And my spirit shall be upon you, now and even to the end of the world.

Those of us who claim to be believers and members of the spiritual brotherhood cannot despise others nor abandon our duty to shine the light of love as we walk by. We are ambassadors of the kingdom of God in the kingdoms of mortals. Those who are lost amid the darkness of fear need us…..the Most Highs and the Supreme depend upon us. Those ones caught up in pleasures and distractions and those victims of the hate and greed of others are, after all, children of God and abide in the family of God. It is difficult to love those who do not love. Still working on that challenge!

191:4.3 (2041.6) “Peace be upon you. You all know that we have one Father in heaven, and that there is but one gospel of the kingdom — the good news of the gift of eternal life which men receive by faith. As you rejoice in your loyalty to the gospel, pray the Father of truth to shed abroad in your hearts a new and greater love for your brethren. You are to love all men as I have loved you; you are to serve all men as I have served you. With understanding sympathy and brotherly affection, fellowship all your brethren who are dedicated to the proclamation of the good news, whether they be Jew or gentile, Greek or Roman, Persian or Ethiopian. John proclaimed the kingdom in advance; you have preached the gospel in power; the Greeks already teach the good news; and I am soon to send forth the Spirit of Truth into the souls of all these, my brethren, who have so unselfishly dedicated their lives to the enlightenment of their fellows who sit in spiritual darkness. You are all the children of light; therefore stumble not into the misunderstanding entanglements of mortal suspicion and human intolerance. If you are ennobled, by the grace of faith, to love unbelievers, should you not also equally love those who are your fellow believers in the far-spreading household of faith? Remember, as you love one another, all men will know that you are my disciples.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
SabinatuBlocked
Aug 6, 2015, 2:03 AM
Bradley opined, “Those of us who claim to be believers and members of the spiritual brotherhood cannot despise others nor abandon our duty to shine the light of love as we walk by. We are ambassadors of the kingdom of God in the kingdoms of mortals. Those who are lost amid the darkness of fear need us…..the Most Highs and the Supreme depend upon us. Those ones caught up in pleasures and distractions and those victims of the hate and greed of others are, after all, children of God and abide in the family of God. It is difficult to love those who do not love. Still working on that challenge!”

Jesus told his apostles to make sure to get out of Dodge to avoid the Roman march. Adam and Eve carefully selected “higher spiritual” people….you FLOOR me with the quotes you pluck out, Bradley, hopefully to lecture YOURSELF because the presumption of setting up such challenges for the “poor” is “inexcusable” in TODAY’S economic situation where the parade of people going to jail marches on and is the visual study aide to your sanguine acceptance of, and I quote, “The profit motive is but another level of primitivism that delivers progressive opportunity for transcendence to an improved version of still more primitivism to still overcome….again and again – this is the nature of evolution.”

Maybe consider how much of your interpretations of Jesus et al in the Urantia Book is heavily influenced by Nihilism?

http://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism/

The Declaration of Independence was, in essence, a divorce from the King – irreconcilable differences. The “spiritual brotherhood” has the same kind of “right” to separate themselves from “primitivism” as Israel reminds the world every day that THEY have that right to separate from “primitivism”, no matter how expensive (blood and treasure) it is getting for the rest of the world to let Israel have that “right”.

Isn’t divorce – the loss of “love” among former “lovers” – the best option? What a misread of Jesus’s mission to suggest we not enjoy the reciprocal DIVINE love between God and God-knowing “man” amongst ourselves! We became a HUMAN race because Andon and Fonta left the tribe…

And I speak from recent experience, a year’s worth. Over 2000 hours of videotape submitted for “judgment” and about 7000 people in my car where the conversation could go in any direction – and get this – ONE incident where I played rough with a “mouth” who was leaving the airport to go to a WalMart and then wanted to be dropped off back into the terminal without going through security, and THAT is the only footage on record proving my “unprofessionalism” in that situation – 1999 hours of good footage to prove there is more to me, NOT STORED.

Also, what is not in that “record” is the finding of a spot check of how airport security was working conducted within two weeks of my “unprofessional” conduct found that guns were smuggled into the airport over 90% of the time – a BIG FAIL. Everyone got sent to training….the JOB is always important, the ego (politics) is not…right?

So, Bradley, no matter how bright I can turn on the spirit light, only the dog responds to it these days by worshipping me

BTW, things are markedly worse this summer than last – that solar system without gravity in YOUR greed is good social system is a “wrong direction” everyone SANE is seeing…and as you admitted, and I am not holding it against you by mentioning this, you just do not have the right amount of divine love for every situation of primitivism. My recent INTENSE EXPERIENCE – over 2000 hours of footage recorded of me interacting with 7000 people (random global humanity on vacation from their daily routines) moves me to instruct you to consider that you need a Plan B to deal with those who do NOT know God, for whatever reason (choice or biology).
VernParticipant
Aug 6, 2015, 3:55 AM

Sabinatu wrote: …public seem to accept this modern form of debt-bondage…

Sabinatu reading back through some of your recent posts I see that you have a keen understanding of the problems of our materialistic secular society and I share a concern at where all this is heading. We are seeing evidence of extreme positions as the fabric of democratic society is put under enormous stress. With the concentration of global wealth being confined to the machinations of the elite corporate “club” the average man and woman in the street is exchanging one form of slavery for another.

A quote from the link on “debt slavery” you provided, is shown below:

…dictatorship is by the aristocracy, against the public. It’s just like the U.S. dictatorship — competing parties, both or all of which represent the aristocracy, against the public; none representing the public, against the aristocracy. Conservatives support it, because they support the aristocracy. (A reader replied to this, “it isn’t just the doctrinaire conservatives that support the new aristocracy it is the majority of the public”; but the majority of the public is conservative, they’re devoted to myths…

This is why the “myths” that the general public respond to need a spiritual renewal that gives life its meaning.

The ideal state undertakes to regulate social conduct only enough to take violence out of individual competition and to prevent unfairness in personal initiative. Here is a great problem in statehood: How can you guarantee peace and quiet in industry, pay the taxes to support state power, and at the same time prevent taxation from handicapping industry and keep the state from becoming parasitical or tyrannical? ^[Paper ^{71:5.2, page 805:2]}

Corporations have made an art form of avoiding tax, they have a budget for an army of lawyers engaged to ensure this.

Ethical awareness is required to ensure fairness in personal initiative. Wealth sharing must be the next phase after wealth generation.

Even though the current manifestation of the wealthy elite is social divisiveness, rather than social unity, it cannot last, for such a course is inherently destructive of even the means by which it grew. Representative government with its universal structure of the separation of powers into executive, legislative, judiciary, has within itself the mechanisms of self correction.

The average man and woman are more inclined to accept the gospel message because of natural humility and sincerity, unaffected by the dictates of status.

Jesus continued to teach, saying: “The unbelievers will not at first listen to the teachings of this spirit, but the sons of light will all receive him gladly and with a whole heart. And you shall know this spirit when he comes even as you have known me, and you will receive this gift in your hearts, and he will abide with you. You thus perceive that I am not going to leave you without help and guidance. I will not leave you desolate. Today I can be with you only in person. In the times to come I will be with you and all other men who desire my presence, wherever you may be, and with each of you at the same time. Do you not discern that it is better for me to go away; that I leave you in the flesh so that I may the better and the more fully be with you in the spirit? ^[Paper ^{180:4.1, page 1948:2]}

…you will be indwelt by the Son as well as by the Father. And these gifts of heaven will ever work the one with the other even as the Father and I have wrought on earth and before your very eyes as one person, the Son of Man. And this spirit friend will bring to your remembrance everything I have taught you.” ^[Paper ^{180:4.3, page 1948:4]}

It was for the “common people” Jesus came, for the average person is the backbone of society and will gladly hear the saving message of sonship with God and consequent dignity of brotherhood within the universe family of mortals and angels—all personalities of creation.

The common people heard Jesus gladly, and they will again respond to the presentation of his sincere human life of consecrated religious motivation if such truths shall again be proclaimed to the world. The people heard him gladly because he was one of them, an unpretentious layman; the world’s greatest religious teacher was indeed a layman. ^[Paper ^{196:1.4, page 2090:5]}

We can all relate to Jesus because he was one of us. This appeal to the “common people” has given me thought that it would be a good topic of conversation, worthy of consideration on its own merits.
VernParticipant
Aug 6, 2015, 5:06 AM

Sabinatu wrote: …This is about REALITY.

Creative persons willing to face reality fearlessly and with honesty, have the capacity to effect lasting change for good.

That which the enlightened and reflective human imagination of spiritual teaching and leading wholeheartedly and unselfishly wants to do and be, becomes measurably creative in accordance with the degree of mortal dedication to the divine doing of the Father’s will. When man goes in partnership with God, great things may, and do, happen. ^[Paper ^{132:7.9, page 1467:5]}

Sabinatu well met my brother, I salute the spirit in you as we walk together with God.
VernParticipant
Aug 6, 2015, 5:17 AM

Sabinatu wrote: …gene pool of refugees from WWII war torn Europe…

BTW my family wading pool—Latvia.
MaraParticipant
Aug 6, 2015, 4:51 PM

Bradly wrote: But regardless of which view is the more accurate, we live when we live and where we live and must meet the challenge presented to our daily walk and material life to not just get along and “fit in”, but to live exemplary lives.

Thanks for bringing your thoughts, references and warmth to the discussion.

.

Vern wrote: Creative persons willing to face reality fearlessly and with honesty, have the capacity to effect lasting change for good.

And thank you Vern for staying the course and for lifting the discussion up. I’m glad you both picked up where I left off several days ago. Both of you have a calming effect on the discussion, and I very much appreciate your work.
BradlyParticipant
Aug 6, 2015, 5:56 PM

Sabinatu wrote:

Maybe consider how much of your interpretations of Jesus et al in the Urantia Book is heavily influenced by Nihilism?

Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.

Sorry but I don’t understand. None of my philosophy or interpretations of anything at all is so “influenced”. My loyalties are clear, even for a tadpole. And I believe in much and have full confidence in the Most Highs on this Shrine of Nebadon!! Never have been a pessimist or fatalist either. Met plenty though. The text posted is not my lecture, it is the Master’s instructions to all kingdom believers and the brotherhood of the spirit.

178:1.5 (1930.2) As mortal and material men, you are indeed citizens of the earthly kingdoms, and you should be good citizens, all the better for having become reborn spirit sons of the heavenly kingdom. As faith-enlightened and spirit-liberated sons of the kingdom of heaven, you face a double responsibility of duty to man and duty to God while you voluntarily assume a third and sacred obligation: service to the brotherhood of God-knowing believers.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
AnonymousInactive
Aug 6, 2015, 6:41 PM

Bradly wrote:

Sorry but I don’t understand. None of my philosophy or interpretations of anything at all is so “influenced”. My loyalties are clear, even for a tadpole. And I believe in much and have full confidence in the Most Highs on this Shrine of Nebadon!! Never have been a pessimist or fatalist either. Met plenty though. The text posted is not my lecture, it is the Master’s instructions to all kingdom believers and the brotherhood of the spirit.

Bradly, one can understand in your beliefs, where you indicate that above (as highlighted) in red, that it is your belief but, one must also keep in mind that many read the Urantia Book and take note of the authors statements which have indicated that the words found within have been modified to serve to the modern reader and that which has been modified for that purpose can also take on variations of understanding, where much has been redirected from the third epochal revelation and emphasized to make for better reading, to be sure. However, to take verbatim that which has been modified and assumed that the “Most Highs” are in total control of the circumstances which befall Urantia, would need more validation as to the actions behind, what would be considered, as confidence in current event, where if these events were the results of the “Most Highs” then there should be more discussion on the circumstances surrounding these events, other than to assume that all is well on Urantia. Also, assuming that the Master has presented instructions through the UB without taking into consideration the admitted modifications to text, by the revelators, which you have in the past indicated as possibly being Midwayer’s, should we not reevaluate all possible circumstances as to the reasoning for such modifications and examine the roots as to their newly presented format, other than to just believe, in the verbatim presented without additional meanings being that the time from the Masters original instructions, although possible relevant to current times, may need to be slightly modified based on events from then to now?

The written word can have many meanings depending on one’s ability to match the times being presented, therefore what you may understand from reading this text, could be different to others, albeit your interpretation, is yours in faith to believe but may be different to others based on their own experiences which may have taken on different paths?

However, in your reply, you failed to site the entire quote regarding “Nihilism” as presented and only presented your immediate take from the quote. which I present below:

Nihilism
“Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history. In the 20th century, nihilistic themes–epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness–have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Mid-century, for example, the existentialists helped popularize tenets of nihilism in their attempts to blunt its destructive potential. By the end of the century, existential despair as a response to nihilism gave way to an attitude of indifference, often associated with antifoundationalism.”
SabinatuBlocked
Aug 6, 2015, 8:34 PM
“^43:3.4 ^(488.6) Down through the ages there has been great confusion on Urantia regarding the various universe rulers. Many later teachers confused their vague and indefinite tribal deities with the Most High Fathers. Still later, the Hebrews merged all of these celestial rulers into a composite Deity. One teacher understood that the Most Highs were not the Supreme Rulers, for he said, “He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.” In the Urantia records it is very difficult at times to know exactly who is referred to by the term “Most High.” But Daniel fully understood these matters. He said, “The Most High rules in the kingdom of men and gives it to whomsoever he will.””

Okay, can we take a minute here to make sure no one believes that they are reporting, as a tadpole, DIRECTLY to “The Most Highs” as those beings are introduced to us in The Urantia Book.

“Someone” could introduce themselves as a “Most High” as a nom de plume on Urantia Forums, but that is a puerile “identity theft” schtick….no one will believe it is “real” – LOL

I understand that because the REAL “Most Highs” are involved in maintaining the operations, if you will, of the wheel of “Absolute” in time and space, the free will choices of us “tadpoles” do not impact what they do, so if they had DIRECT contact with us, it will be perceived by us as an experience of Absolute “power” that negates our free-will choice….not sure I am getting this across correctly in one try – how us “tadpoles”, if you will, do NOT report directly to the Most Highs, nor do they DIRECTLY assign tasks to a tadpole – they work, directly, mostly through the Seraphim…willing to explore better understanding about the Most Highs….

In the meantime, I agree that an absolute-power noose on the material lives of tadpoles through a “greed is good” global economy that is now, basically, as crazy as a solar system without gravity, would invite a Most High to take hold of the keel through the agencies in place for the delegation of the tasks involved in HOW the ship gets back on course. Jesus quipped that it’s a problem with “distribution”. No kiddin’

Just because GRAVITY is a free energy source does not mean that human labor is the financial equivalent in a “global” market – meaning human labor needs to be done for “free” for the benefit of – which? – Most Highs, Bradley?
BradlyParticipant
Aug 6, 2015, 9:57 PM
MidiChlorian wrote:

However, to take verbatim that which has been modified and assumed that the “Most Highs” are in total control of the circumstances which befall Urantia, would need more validation as to the actions behind, what would be considered, as confidence in current event, where if these events were the results of the “Most Highs” then there should be more discussion on the circumstances surrounding these events, other than to assume that all is well on Urantia.

Me here: Greetings Midi! While I am reluctant to take the discussion away from the topic, I do want to be responsive. First let me say that I did not say, or mean to say or infer, that “the “…Most Highs” are in total control of the circumstances which befall Urantia…”. The Most Highs are charged with epochal progress and eventuation of planetary destiny, Light and Life. The “circumstances” are the lemons provided by the passing generations of mortals and our free will choices, which the agents of the Most Highs, must then make lemonade out of over time through the slow process of social evolution. Also I do not think that “…. all is well on Urantia.” Social and epochal progress is a pretty ugly business from any tadpole’s perspective… and mighty slow too!! I only meant to say I have “confidence” in the ultimate destiny of our world and in the plan, the power, the purpose, and the ability of those in charge of the process.

As to the accuracy of the UB and my belief system: I understand the text to clearly state that the authors wrote purposefully, specifically, and accurately, to the best of their ability given the caveats of translation and the mortal mind’s abilities to understand, a text book of knowledge to reduce confusions and errors and I accept that claim. But my core beliefs come by way of the Gospel and my experience with the spirit within – I believe in a paternal and personal creator who loves me and this results in the family of all creation according to God’s purpose and plan which provides for an eternity of adventure in a universe that is based on love. The rest of the details provided in the UB confirm this and add significant comfort by such additional descriptions of the vastness of the universe of universes. I love studying the text and making connections of new context for my expanding perspective but my faith is in God and my experience says such faith is well founded and rewarded.

Sabinatu wrote:

Okay, can we take a minute here to make sure no one believes that they are reporting, as a tadpole, DIRECTLY to “The Most Highs” as those beings are introduced to us in The Urantia Book. “Someone” could introduce themselves as a “Most High” as a nom de plume on Urantia Forums, but that is a puerile “identity theft” schtick….no one will believe it is “real” – LOL I understand that because the REAL “Most Highs” are involved in maintaining the operations, if you will, of the wheel of “Absolute” in time and space, the free will choices of us “tadpoles” do not impact what they do, so if they had DIRECT contact with us, it will be perceived by us as an experience of Absolute “power” that negates our free-will choice….not sure I am getting this across correctly in one try – how us “tadpoles”, if you will, do NOT report directly to the Most Highs, nor do they DIRECTLY assign tasks to a tadpole – they work, directly, mostly through the Seraphim…willing to explore better understanding about the Most Highs….

Me here: Very funny!! I am neither reporting to or receiving instructions from any party….except by and through the spirit within and my poor TA is having issues with my receptivity regarding any clarity of instruction or communication!! Nonetheless, the spiritual brotherhood is tasked with service and love in our daily walk here and now….and always. Love is the power that creates, propels, preserves, and perpetuates creation. My job is to get into that slipstream of divine current….and enjoy the ride!!

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

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