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Problematic revelation on Celestial Guardians…

69 posts · 5 participants · started Aug 19, 2017, 3:05 PM

Brooklyn_bornParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 3:05 PM
According to revelation 22:9.5, Celestial Guardians have never been Adjuster indwelt:

22:9.5 The Celestial Guardians and their associates, the High Son Assistants, have never been indwelt by Adjusters. Neither are they Spirit nor Son fused. The embrace of the Paradise Trinity does, however, compensate for the nonfused status of the Trinitized Sons of Perfection. The Trinity embrace may act solely upon the idea which is personified in a creature-trinitized son, leaving the embraced son otherwise unchanged, but such a limitation occurs only when so planned.

However, the Revelator introduces us to Celestial Guardians with the following revelation:

18:4.4 … But much of the routine work of major sector affairs is carried on by the Celestial Guardians and the High Son Assistants. These two groups are drawn from among the trinitized offspring of either Paradise-Havona personalities or glorified mortal finaliters. Certain of these two orders of creature-trinitized beings are retrinitized by the Paradise Deities and then are dispatched to assist in the administration of the superuniverse governments.

Question: How does the Revelator declare in a later revelation that Celestial Guardians are drawn from the ranks of glorified mortal finaliters, yet in an earlier revelation states that they have never been Adjuster indwelt? When trinitized or retrinitized, are events of previous lives stricken from universal archives ? What are your thoughts?

BB
BradlyParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 4:38 PM
I believe its your understanding that’s “problematic” and not the Revelation. I don’t understand your confusion when reading 18 & 22. The Guardians are trinitized offspring of ascending and descending Sons which include fused finaliters and they are born/created in Havona. Similar in some ways to the midwayers creation process I think…but much higher order of being…a Paradise being.

Interesting inference in the wording of this topic….problematic indeed.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 4:42 PM
Quote 18:4.4 clearly states Celestial Guardians are either Paradise-Havona personalities (no Adjusters) OR glorified mortal finaliters (yes Adjusters). Quote 22:9.5 is referring to the Paradise-Havona personalities without Adjusters, aka the Trinitized Sons of Perfection who are twice-trinitized. Adjuster indwelt creatures are only trinitized once. Paradise-Havona creatures can be trinitized more than once.

22:7.3 The glorified creatures who engage in such adventures of trinitization may participate in only one such experience, whereas with the Paradise Deities there seems to be no limit to the continued enactment of trinitization episodes.

22:9.2 When these unique beings have been Trinity embraced, they become valuable adjuncts to the superuniverse governments. They are versed in the affairs of the ascendant career, not by personal ascension, but as a result of their service with the Trinity Teacher Sons on the worlds of space.

22:9.6 These twice-trinitized sons are marvelous beings, but they are neither as versatile nor dependable as their ascendant associates; they lack that tremendous and profound personal experience which the rest of the sons belonging to this group have acquired by actually climbing up to glory from the dark domains of space.
Brooklyn_bornParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 5:12 PM
Bonita, thanks for your response. Please, consider the below quote as I believe it puts yours in perspective regarding “twice-trinitized” sons…

22:1.5 The Trinitized Sons of Perfection. The Celestial Guardians and their co-ordinates, the High Son Assistants, comprise a unique group of twice-trinitized personalities. They are the creature-trinitized sons of Paradise-Havona personalities or of perfected ascendant mortals who have long distinguished themselves in the Corps of the Finality. Some of these creature-trinitized sons, after service with the Supreme Executives of the Seven Master Spirits and after serving under the Trinity Teacher Sons, are retrinitized (embraced) by the Paradise Trinity and then commissioned to the courts of the Ancients of Days as Celestial Guardians and as High Son Assistants. Trinitized Sons of Perfection are assigned directly to the superuniverse service without further training.

According to the above mortals also can be mustered into the ranks of “twice-trinitized” sons. So the revelation you posted I think does not explain the issue raised in this thread.

Bonita wrote:

Quote 18:4.4 clearly states Celestial Guardians are either Paradise-Havona personalities (no Adjusters) OR glorified mortal finaliters (yes Adjusters). Quote 22:9.5 is referring to the Paradise-Havona personalities without Adjusters, aka the Trinitized Sons of Perfection who are twice-trinitized. Adjuster indwelt creatures are only trinitized once. Paradise-Havona creatures can be trinitized more than once.

22:7.3 The glorified creatures who engage in such adventures of trinitization may participate in only one such experience, whereas with the Paradise Deities there seems to be no limit to the continued enactment of trinitization episodes. 22:9.2 When these unique beings have been Trinity embraced, they become valuable adjuncts to the superuniverse governments. They are versed in the affairs of the ascendant career, not by personal ascension, but as a result of their service with the Trinity Teacher Sons on the worlds of space. 22:9.6 These twice-trinitized sons are marvelous beings, but they are neither as versatile nor dependable as their ascendant associates; they lack that tremendous and profound personal experience which the rest of the sons belonging to this group have acquired by actually climbing up to glory from the dark domains of space.

BB
BonitaParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 5:56 PM
22:9.5 The Celestial Guardians and their associates, the High Son Assistants, have never been indwelt by Adjusters. Neither are they Spirit nor Son fused. The embrace of the Paradise Trinity does, however, compensate for the nonfused status of the Trinitized Sons of Perfection. The Trinity embrace may act solely upon the idea which is personified in a creature-trinitized son, leaving the embraced son otherwise unchanged, but such a limitation occurs only when so planned.

They are talking about the Trinitized Sons of Perfection. The Trinitized Sons of Perfection are not indwelt by Adjusters. The Celestial Guardians who are ascenders indwelt by Adjusters are called the Trinitized Sons of Attainment.

22:1.10 The Trinitized Sons of Attainment – the Mighty Messengers, Those High in Authority, and Those without Name and Number – are all Adjuster-fused ascendant mortals who have attained Paradise and the Corps of the Finality. But they are not finaliters; when they have been Trinity embraced, their names are removed from the finaliter roll call. The new sons of this order pass through specific courses of training, for comparatively short periods, on the circuit headquarters planets of the Havona circuits under the direction of the Eternals of Days. Thereafter they are assigned to the services of the Ancients of Days in the seven superuniverses.
BradlyParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 6:06 PM
Not in agreement here; the Guardians are the offspring, children, sons of trinitized beings, including ascendant finaliters. They are not ascenders themselves.

9. The Celestial Guardians
22:9.1 (252.3) Creature-trinitized sons are embraced by the Paradise Trinity in classes of seven thousand. These trinitized offspring of perfected humans and of Paradise-Havona personalities are all equally embraced by the Deities…..

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
Brooklyn_bornParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 6:09 PM
Bonita, please reread the reference (emphasis, boldface):

22:1.5 The Trinitized Sons of Perfection. The Celestial Guardians and their co-ordinates, the High Son Assistants, comprise a unique group of twice-trinitized personalities. They are the creature-trinitized sons of Paradise-Havona personalities or of perfected ascendant mortals who have long distinguished themselves in the Corps of the Finality. Some of these creature-trinitized sons, after service with the Supreme Executives of the Seven Master Spirits and after serving under the Trinity Teacher Sons, are retrinitized (embraced) by the Paradise Trinity and then commissioned to the courts of the Ancients of Days as Celestial Guardians and as High Son Assistants. Trinitized Sons of Perfection are assigned directly to the superuniverse service without further training.

See where it says “or of perfected ascendant mortals…“?

Bonita wrote:

22:9.5 The Celestial Guardians and their associates, the High Son Assistants, have never been indwelt by Adjusters. Neither are they Spirit nor Son fused. The embrace of the Paradise Trinity does, however, compensate for the nonfused status of the Trinitized Sons of Perfection. The Trinity embrace may act solely upon the idea which is personified in a creature-trinitized son, leaving the embraced son otherwise unchanged, but such a limitation occurs only when so planned.

They are talking about the Trinitized Sons of Perfection. The Trinitized Sons of Perfection are not indwelt by Adjusters. The Celestial Guardians who are ascenders indwelt by Adjusters are called the Trinitized Sons of Attainment.

22:1.10 The Trinitized Sons of Attainment – the Mighty Messengers, Those High in Authority, and Those without Name and Number – are all Adjuster-fused ascendant mortals who have attained Paradise and the Corps of the Finality. But they are not finaliters; when they have been Trinity embraced, their names are removed from the finaliter roll call. The new sons of this order pass through specific courses of training, for comparatively short periods, on the circuit headquarters planets of the Havona circuits under the direction of the Eternals of Days. Thereafter they are assigned to the services of the Ancients of Days in the seven superuniverses.

BB
BonitaParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 6:35 PM
Yes BB, I see that. What I don’t think I’m getting across clearly is the fact that they are NOT referring to the perfected ascendent mortals when they mention the Celestial Guardians who NEVER had Adjusters. They are referring to the Paradise-Havona personalities. I don’t think retrinitized trinitized is the same as twice-trinitized, but I’m not sure. However, I am sure that the reference to NEVER having been Adjuster, Son or Spirit fused is NOT about ascending mortals. There’s no way an ascendent mortal can get to Paradise finality without one of the three. (not yelling with my caps)

22:10.1 The High Son Assistants are the superior group of the retrinitized trinitized sons of glorified ascendant beings of the Mortal Corps of the Finality and of their eternal associates, the Paradise-Havona personalities. They are assigned to the superuniverse service and function as personal aids to the high sons of the governments of the Ancients of Days. They might fittingly be denominated private secretaries. They act, from time to time, as clerks for special commissions and other group associations of the high sons. They serve Perfectors of Wisdom, Divine Counselors, Universal Censors, Mighty Messengers, Those High in Authority, and Those without Name and Number.
AnonymousInactive
Aug 19, 2017, 6:36 PM

Bradly wrote:

Not in agreement here; the Guardians are the offspring, children, sons of trinitized beings, including ascendant finaliters. They are not ascenders themselves.

9. The Celestial Guardians 22:9.1
(252.3) Creature-trinitized sons are embraced by the Paradise Trinity in classes of seven thousand. These trinitized offspring of perfected humans and of Paradise-Havona personalities are all equally embraced by the Deities…..

I am somewhat in agreement here with Bradly, however I’m not sure as to exactly where he is attempting to go with his statement above? Nevertheless, I’m not sure that they are “not ascenders themselves”, but I do agree that they are mortal “offspring, children” of finaliters, which has its own definition or understanding in the UB.

I believe that there is or are key words which are associated in the text being “embrace” and “embraced”, where there are two distinct meanings that differ in meaning as indicated here: “http://www.dictionary.com/browse/embrace?s=t“, where in the second meaning “embrace-2”, it can be linked to UB text as described in the beginning of Paper 22. However, the meaning seems to change throughout this text to also include the meaning as described in “embrace-1”.

Therefore, in some cases the word “embrace” or “embraced” might indicate a joining of sorts, between these beings creating a “trinity” or “tri-union”, where fusion would not be necessary, because of that persons heritage or parents finaliter status?
Brooklyn_bornParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 6:44 PM
But were some of the Celestial Guardians once mortal, Midi, before trinitization?

MidiChlorian wrote:

Bradly wrote:

Not in agreement here; the Guardians are the offspring, children, sons of trinitized beings, including ascendant finaliters. They are not ascenders themselves.

9. The Celestial Guardians 22:9.1 (252.3) Creature-trinitized sons are embraced by the Paradise Trinity in classes of seven thousand. These trinitized offspring of perfected humans and of Paradise-Havona personalities are all equally embraced by the Deities…..

I am somewhat in agreement here with Bradly, however I’m not sure as to exactly where he is attempting to go with his statement above? Nevertheless, I’m not sure that they are “not ascenders themselves”, but I do agree that they are mortal “offspring, children” of finaliters, which has its own definition or understanding in the UB. I believe that there is or are key words which are associated in the text being “embrace” and “embraced”, where there are two distinct meanings that differ in meaning as indicated here: “http://www.dictionary.com/browse/embrace?s=t“, where in the second meaning “embrace-2”, it can be linked to UB text as described in the beginning of Paper 22. However, the meaning seems to change throughout this text to also include the meaning as described in “embrace-1”. Therefore, in some cases the word “embrace” or “embraced” might indicate a joining of sorts, between these beings creating a “trinity” or “tri-union”, where fusion would not be necessary, because of that persons heritage or parents finaliter status?

BB
BonitaParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 6:46 PM

Bradly wrote:

Not in agreement here; the Guardians are the offspring, children, sons of trinitized beings, including ascendant finaliters. They are not ascenders themselves. 9. The Celestial Guardians 22:9.1 (252.3) Creature-trinitized sons are embraced by the Paradise Trinity in classes of seven thousand. These trinitized offspring of perfected humans and of Paradise-Havona personalities are all equally embraced by the Deities…..

I’m sorry Bradly, I missed this. By using the word offspring, they are not referring to brand new creatures. The word offspring is being used to mean the product or result of trinitization.
Brooklyn_bornParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 6:53 PM
Agreed.

Bonita wrote:

Bradly wrote:

Not in agreement here; the Guardians are the offspring, children, sons of trinitized beings, including ascendant finaliters. They are not ascenders themselves. 9. The Celestial Guardians 22:9.1 (252.3) Creature-trinitized sons are embraced by the Paradise Trinity in classes of seven thousand. These trinitized offspring of perfected humans and of Paradise-Havona personalities are all equally embraced by the Deities…..

I’m sorry Bradly, I missed this. By using the word offspring, they are not referring to brand new creatures. The word offspring is being used to mean the product or result of trinitization.

BB
BonitaParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 7:02 PM
You know what? I just reviewed some other quotes about trinitized offspring and I’ve changed my mind. I think you might be right Bradly. I hadn’t thought about it that way before. This will take some thought though. Thanks for highlighting it. Brand spanking new personalities who benefit from all the ascension trials without having gone through them personally? That’s new.
AnonymousInactive
Aug 19, 2017, 7:04 PM

Brooklyn_born wrote:

But were some of the Celestial Guardians once mortal, Midi, before trinitization?

I’m not sure but I assume that the “Celestial Guardians” are composed within an actual mortal being who does not have an adjuster, and an offspring of finaliters, something like secondary midwayers being mortal beings and can choose to take on a adjuster in order to follow the ascension path. However, in this case the offspring has been breed as a unique being with the conjoined abilities or functionality of his or her parents.

252.4) 22:9.2 When these unique beings have been Trinity embraced, they become valuable adjuncts to the superuniverse governments. They are versed in the affairs of the ascendant career, not by personal ascension, but as a result of their service with the Trinity Teacher Sons on the worlds of space.

As indicated above, although not specific, it indicates “on the worlds of space”, which may indicate that their function is as a mortal being.
BonitaParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 7:10 PM
Interesting quote which confirms that at least some trinitized offspring are progeny of finaliters and Paradise Citizens.

31:9.13 All beings produced by the union of the children of time and eternity, such as the trinitized offspring of the finaliters and the Paradise Citizens, become wards of the Master Architects. But of all other creatures or entities revealed as functioning in the present organized universes, only Solitary Messengers and Inspired Trinity Spirits maintain any organic association with the Transcendentalers and the Architects of the Master Universe.
Brooklyn_bornParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 7:17 PM
So then it goes back to my initial query, that is, does the transformative properties of trinitization expunge the records of a previous life, thus creating a new being? We know, based on what Revelators tell us, all mortals, since Pentecost, are Adjuster indwelt while on Urantia.

MidiChlorian wrote:

Brooklyn_born wrote:

But were some of the Celestial Guardians once mortal, Midi, before trinitization?

I’m not sure but I assume that the “Celestial Guardians” are composed within an actual mortal being who does not have an adjuster, and an offspring of finaliters, something like secondary midwayers being mortal beings and can choose to take on a adjuster in order to follow the ascension path. However, in this case the offspring has been breed as a unique being with the conjoined abilities or functionality of his or her parents.

252.4) 22:9.2 When these unique beings have been Trinity embraced, they become valuable adjuncts to the superuniverse governments. They are versed in the affairs of the ascendant career, not by personal ascension, but as a result of their service with the Trinity Teacher Sons on the worlds of space.

As indicated above, although not specific, it indicates “on the worlds of space”, which may indicate that their function is as a mortal being.

BB
Brooklyn_bornParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 7:27 PM

I don’t think you initially understood the quote because your statement about it was incorrect. This is what you said, which prompted me to ask you to re-read the revelation:

Bonita: “They are talking about the Trinitized Sons of Perfection. The Trinitized Sons of Perfection are not indwelt by Adjusters. The Celestial Guardians who are ascenders indwelt by Adjusters are called the Trinitized Sons of Attainment.”

Clearly, your statement misrepresents the revelation as we are told Trinitized Sons of Perfection ARE composed of indwelt by Adjusters in the following:

22:1.5 The Trinitized Sons of Perfection… They are… perfected ascendant mortals who have long distinguished themselves in the Corps of the Finality.

As you can see, TSP comprises Adjuster indwelt beings, ie., mortals.

Bonita wrote:

You know what? I just reviewed some other quotes about trinitized offspring and I’ve changed my mind. I think you might be right Bradly. I hadn’t thought about it that way before. This will take some thought though. Thanks for highlighting it. Brand spanking new personalities who benefit from all the ascension trials without having gone through them personally? That’s new.

Yes BB, I see that. What I don’t think I’m getting across clearly is the fact that they are NOT referring to the perfected ascendent mortals when they mention the Celestial Guardians who NEVER had Adjusters. They are referring to the Paradise-Havona personalities. I don’t think retrinitized trinitized is the same as twice-trinitized, but I’m not sure. However, I am sure that the reference to NEVER having been Adjuster, Son or Spirit fused is NOT about ascending mortals. There’s no way an ascendent mortal can get to Paradise finality without one of the three. (not yelling with my caps)

22:10.1 The High Son Assistants are the superior group of the retrinitized trinitized sons of glorified ascendant beings of the Mortal Corps of the Finality and of their eternal associates, the Paradise-Havona personalities. They are assigned to the superuniverse service and function as personal aids to the high sons of the governments of the Ancients of Days. They might fittingly be denominated private secretaries. They act, from time to time, as clerks for special commissions and other group associations of the high sons. They serve Perfectors of Wisdom, Divine Counselors, Universal Censors, Mighty Messengers, Those High in Authority, and Those without Name and Number.

BB
BonitaParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 7:36 PM

22:9.5 The Celestial Guardians and their associates, the High Son Assistants, have never been indwelt by Adjusters. Neither are they Spirit nor Son fused. The embrace of the Paradise Trinity does, however, compensate for the nonfused status of the Trinitized Sons of Perfection. The Trinity embrace may act solely upon the idea which is personified in a creature-trinitized son, leaving the embraced son otherwise unchanged, but such a limitation occurs only when so planned.

So, with this new information, thanks to Bradly, if all the Celestial Guardians are brand spanking new personalities, it makes sense that none have been indwelt by an Adjuster or Spirit/Son fused.

But not all trinitized Sons are brand spanking new, if I’m reading this right. Nothing in this next quotes suggests that the Mighty Messengers, etal. are offspring. So, not all trinitization results in a brand spanking new being. Right?

22:1.10 The Trinitized Sons of Attainment – the Mighty Messengers, Those High in Authority, and Those without Name and Number – are all Adjuster-fused ascendant mortals who have attained Paradise and the Corps of the Finality. But they are not finaliters; when they have been Trinity embraced, their names are removed from the finaliter roll call. The new sons of this order pass through specific courses of training, for comparatively short periods, on the circuit headquarters planets of the Havona circuits under the direction of the Eternals of Days. Thereafter they are assigned to the services of the Ancients of Days in the seven superuniverses.

I have always thought that trinitization simply means the ability to represent the Trinity. I’m guessing retrinitizing and twice trinitizing has something to do with offspring/progeny, but I haven’t found a quote to support it.
Brooklyn_bornParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 7:51 PM
Trinitization is a transformative process or being “born-again” so to speak; it is also referred to as the “technique of trinitization.” And in that regard is a being brand spanking new. But these beings in the literal sense (except for the High Son Assistants which I believe are born into it but I have to double check) are not brand new. They are transformed beings. Please consider the following revelations:

3:1.13 Nontrinitized beings do not fully understand the technique of trinitization by either two or three Creators or by certain creatures. You will never fully understand such a phenomenon unless, in the far-distant future of your glorified career, you should essay and succeed in such an adventure, because otherwise these secrets of Vicegerington will always be forbidden you. But to me, a high Trinity-origin being, all sectors of Vicegerington are open. I fully understand, and just as fully and sacredly protect, the secret of my origin and destiny.

22:7.1 I cannot fully unfold to the material mind the experience of the supreme creative performance of perfect and perfected spiritual beings — the act of trinitization. The techniques of trinitization are among the secrets of Vicegerington and Solitarington and are revealable to, and understandable by, none save those who have passed through these unique experiences. Therefore is it beyond the possibility of any being successfully to portray to the human mind the nature and purport of this extraordinary transaction.

Trinity embrace is experiential in nature.

Bonita wrote:

22:9.5 The Celestial Guardians and their associates, the High Son Assistants, have never been indwelt by Adjusters. Neither are they Spirit nor Son fused. The embrace of the Paradise Trinity does, however, compensate for the nonfused status of the Trinitized Sons of Perfection. The Trinity embrace may act solely upon the idea which is personified in a creature-trinitized son, leaving the embraced son otherwise unchanged, but such a limitation occurs only when so planned.

So, with this new information, thanks to Bradly, if all the Celestial Guardians are brand spanking new personalities, it makes sense that none have been indwelt by an Adjuster or Spirit/Son fused. But not all trinitized Sons are brand spanking new, if I’m reading this right. Nothing in this next quotes suggests that the Mighty Messengers, etal. are offspring. So, not all trinitization results in a brand spanking new being. Right?

22:1.10 The Trinitized Sons of Attainment – the Mighty Messengers, Those High in Authority, and Those without Name and Number – are all Adjuster-fused ascendant mortals who have attained Paradise and the Corps of the Finality. But they are not finaliters; when they have been Trinity embraced, their names are removed from the finaliter roll call. The new sons of this order pass through specific courses of training, for comparatively short periods, on the circuit headquarters planets of the Havona circuits under the direction of the Eternals of Days. Thereafter they are assigned to the services of the Ancients of Days in the seven superuniverses.

I have always thought that trinitization simply means the ability to represent the Trinity. I’m guessing retrinitizing and twice trinitizing has something to do with offspring/progeny, but I haven’t found a quote to support it.

BB
BonitaParticipant
Aug 19, 2017, 7:59 PM
22:1.12 The Trinitized Sons of Perfection. The Celestial Guardians and their co-ordinates, the High Son Assistants, comprise a unique group of twice-trinitized personalities. They are the creature-trinitized sons of Paradise-Havona personalities or of perfected ascendant mortals who have long distinguished themselves in the Corps of the Finality. Some of these creature-trinitized sons, after service with the Supreme Executives of the Seven Master Spirits and after serving under the Trinity Teacher Sons, are retrinitized (embraced) by the Paradise Trinity and then commissioned to the courts of the Ancients of Days as Celestial Guardians and as High Son Assistants. Trinitized Sons of Perfection are assigned directly to the superuniverse service without further training.

In light of this new information the Celestial Guardians start out as sons of (progeny) ascendant mortals who are in the Corps of the Finality, or of Paradise-Havona persons. (It makes sense that they use the lower case s for son in this circumstance.) These new persons are creature-trinitized first, then after service under the Trinity Teacher Sons, they get retrinitized. So I guess retrinitized and twice-trinitized are indeed the same thing. It’s all fascinatingly new. TUB, the gift that keeps on giving. Thanks Bradly.

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