Personality and Gender Identity

113 posts · 11 participants · started Nov 8, 2017, 9:33 PM

1. M

   MaraParticipant
   Nov 11, 2017, 6:06 PM

   Bonita wrote: . . .  what set of RIGHTS and which DOMAIN do homosexuals have? Do they have their own. . . . Since TUB tells us that these domains can and will overlap. . . .

   It’s not hard to figure this out when you look in your mind’s eye at the world and see what the domains of men and women are. Rights, per se, are societal and cultural.

   Mating is an instinct, but childbirth is the domain of woman, due to biologic specialization.   Home building is a big deal because the home is the basic social unit of society, among other things. Homosexuals engage in home building. They make families and have children.

   84:7.28  The family is the fundamental unit of fraternity in which parents and children learn those lessons of patience, altruism, tolerance, and forbearance which are so essential to the realization of brotherhood among all men.

   The rights of homosexuals vary in accordance with the societal and cultural norms. Over time these norms change. Childbirth is available to some homosexuals. The gonad issues are planetary.  Who knows what science will come up with next?

   The domains of homosexuals will vary in accordance to preferences and proclivities, which is also true of heteros.

   Who knows what the mental dissimilarities are between maleness and femaleness? It’s not biologic, because the revelators already said “. . . domains determined by biologic differentiation and by mental dissimilarity.”

2. B

   BradlyParticipant
   Nov 11, 2017, 6:08 PM

   Bonita wrote:

   Bradly wrote:

   America’s greatness, what there is of that, comes specifically and directly from those who were persecuted here or elsewhere over religion, race, culture, color, and sexual orientation, etc.

   That’s a curious statement. Isn’t America’s greatness due to the fact that she tolerates all religions, races, cultures, colors and sexual orientations? I think it’s called freedom? Granted, freedom is relative, there is no such thing as absolute freedom, but if greatness is equivalent to the ability to keep your tongue, it would seem that tolerance is what makes America great, the willingness to tolerate the relative freedom of others who are different. That being said, there is way too much tongue wagging these days and disrespect for the law, but that’s a different topic.

   134:6.1 If one man is to be absolutely free, then another must become an absolute slave. And the relative nature of freedom is true socially, economically, and politically. Freedom is the gift of civilization made possible by the enforcement of LAW.

   Me:  To the degree that we actually deliver such tolerance….YES!  The suffering of persecution has led all Americans to America or brought them here as slaves…even the native Americans were fleeing racist based and genocidal persecutions.  Prejudice does not deliver our potential or our greatness….it is an obstacle to both….IMO.

   I’ve always found it interesting that a group of white men…slave owners some and before suffrage gave women the vote (if not equality), delivered the world a document of such promise, potential, and idealism.  The ideal that all people should have equal standing/protection under the law and equal opportunity for personal growth/expression remains an ideal.  But we progress toward such idealism.  No one is or can be ‘equal’ per se…..but ideally they can all enjoy equal protection and opportunity to achieve their own potential.

    

   "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

3. VA

   Van AmadonParticipant
   Nov 11, 2017, 6:22 PM

    

   Bonita wrote:

   That’s not what I asked. I asked who said, or where did you get the idea that homosexuals and transgenders have a different destiny?

   I don’t think transgenders and homosexuals have a different destiny than anyone Bonita. Like Bradly said, “The response of resolve and love in triumph builds great character.” So they have as great an opportunity as anyone else. They’re going through the same thing everybody is going through, by the choices that are made.

   What I’m trying to emphasize is that the revelators don’t reference abnormal sexual identification as a differential of destiny circumstance, like the circumstances that lead to Son fusion.

   This indicates to me that homosexuality and transgenderism is not something that’s special, and that it’s not a distinction people are “born with.”

   If it is special in the circumstance of it predetermining how a person is somehow limited in free will chosing how to behave, I’m certain the revelation would have included an explanation of why this is true. That being born in a way that isn’t normal sexually would be something that would affect an inability to choose an action. To choose a sex act.

   If transgenderism and homosexuality has things to do with the sex act that is.

   To me, some of the most important distinctions of what the book says is what it doesn’t say, because from the standpoint of things needing to be mentioned, some things aren’t important apparently.

   Like not mentioning the Mormon religion in regard to the morontia appearances of the Master.

   It’s a non-issue for Mormons to work out, the same way with transgenders and homosexuals.

    

    

    

4. G

   GeneParticipant
   Nov 11, 2017, 6:43 PM

   For what it’s worth, to pidgeon hole my beliefs and opinions into the bigotry racism intolerance cesspool is just another form of intolerance with the added benefit of avoiding reality and valid opposition; make me out to be horrible in order to divert attention from what is receiving valid criticism. That’s ok, I get it quite a bit for lots of stuff above and beyond sexual deviants. Like I said, I get along with lots of people and sometimes getting along can be misinterpreted as tolerance of deviant or destructive behavior and getting along can in itself precipitate destructive results if we think with the wrong head!

   non sexual example: my daughters heroin use – I can’t recall how many times I was duped into doing things for her that only turned out to enable her destructive behavior and I really knew better but because I loved her without reservation, I did it thinking it may help, better said-not really thinking as a father should – that is where the term “tough love” originates and it is my weakness.

   loving someone as brother/sister transcends even the most destructive behaviors and should not be part of tolerance for such behaviors. That’s where the difficult challenge lies if we are to remove the destructive degenerate species. It’s not a subject for this generation.

    

    

5. M

   MaraParticipant
   Nov 11, 2017, 6:52 PM

   andré wrote:

   84:5.13. Forever each sex will remain supreme in its own domain, domains determined by biologic differentiation and by mental dissimilarity.

   Regarding mental dissimilarities between males and females, I wonder what part the source of mind plays in imparting the impersonal and individualized circuit. Does it play a part in maleness and femaleness?

   9:5.4   Since the Third Person of Deity is the source of mind, it is quite natural that the evolutionary will creatures find it easier to form comprehensible concepts of the Infinite Spirit than they do of either the Eternal Son or the Universal Father. The reality of the Conjoint Creator is disclosed imperfectly in the very existence of human mind. The Conjoint Creator is the ancestor of the cosmic mind, and the mind of man is an individualized circuit, an impersonal portion, of that cosmic mind as it is bestowed in a local universe by a Creative Daughter of the Third Source and Center.

6. M

   MaraParticipant
   Nov 11, 2017, 7:05 PM

   Gene wrote:,

   For what it’s worth, to pidgeon hole my beliefs and opinions into the bigotry racism intolerance cesspool is just another form of intolerance with the added benefit of avoiding reality and valid opposition; make me out to be horrible in order to divert attention from what is receiving valid criticism.

   Hi Gene,

   You have every right to your beliefs and opinions.  No one has made you out to be horrible.  I see no evidence of that.  We are, however, having a good conversation about personality and gender issues, as well as other related issues.  It’s hard being a father.  Your situation with your daugther is sorrowful.  It’s hard being a mother too.  No two ways about it.

    

7. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Nov 11, 2017, 7:09 PM

   Mara wrote:Regarding to mental dissimilarities between males and females, I wonder what part the source of mind plays in imparting the impersonal and individualized circuit. Does it play a part in maleness and femaleness?

   I thought we established that it is personality which determines male or female type.  Personality unifies mind.  Right?

   Incidentally, I just read in the paper that they are going to attempt a uterus transplant. Paper didn’t say what sex the recipient will be.

    

8. B

   BonitaParticipant
   Nov 11, 2017, 7:43 PM

   Gene wrote:

   For what it’s worth, to pidgeon hole my beliefs and opinions into the bigotry racism intolerance cesspool is just another form of intolerance with the added benefit of avoiding reality and valid opposition; make me out to be horrible in order to divert attention from what is receiving valid criticism.

   That’s a strong indictment.  Nevertheless I stand by my statement that labeling homosexuals as degenerates crosses the line because it paints every homosexual as immoral. There’s nothing immoral about loving another person of the same sex.  Having sex with a person you love, if consensual, is not immoral and not a sin regardless of gender.  Having sex with a child, on the other hand, a child who cannot make an informed decision on the subject, is horribly immoral.   If you want to be outraged about something, be outraged about that and leave loving consensual same-sex couples to their own business.  Of course you are permitted to have your opinion on the subject, as am I, but opinions are subject to being right or wrong.  None of us know why this happens on earth.  Perhaps it’s because we’re a decimal, experimental sphere . . . there’s just not enough info to nail this down yet.  Until then, I side with mercy.

   If you recall, the midwayers defined friendship in this way:

   “Friendship is the first and basic human conviction. It is more than an emotion, it is greater than an impulse, it transcends a sentiment. There is something profound about friendship at its best. It is undoubtedly based on the sentiment of love, and has in association with it many other emotions, including, no doubt, both sympathy and respect. Friendship is the equivalent of love plus loyalty and more or less of the sex-element. It is so influential in human experience that there appear to be no lengths to which it will not go to assert itself and to justify its existence.”

   A homosexual relationship is a friendship with more of the sex-element.

9. M

   MaraParticipant
   Nov 11, 2017, 7:48 PM

   Bradly wrote:

   I’m sorry….but your opinion is definitely defective and degenerate…..and is only your opinion….definitely.  Careful of such poison.

   People have a right to have an opinion different from yours, Bradly.  Tolerance is the earmark of a great soul. (156:5.18 )

10. G

    GeneParticipant
    Nov 11, 2017, 8:01 PM

    Bonita wrote:

    Gene wrote:

    For what it’s worth, to pidgeon hole my beliefs and opinions into the bigotry racism intolerance cesspool is just another form of intolerance with the added benefit of avoiding reality and valid opposition; make me out to be horrible in order to divert attention from what is receiving valid criticism.

    That’s a strong indictment. Nevertheless I stand by my statement that labeling homosexuals as degenerates crosses the line because it paints every homosexual as immoral. There’s nothing immoral about loving another person of the same sex. Having sex with a person you love, if consensual, is not immoral and not a sin regardless of gender. Having sex with a child, on the other hand, a child who cannot make an informed decision on the subject, is horribly immoral. If you want to be outraged about something, be outraged about that and leave loving consensual same-sex couples to their own business. Of course you are permitted to have your opinion on the subject, as am I, but opinions are subject to being right or wrong. None of us know why this happens on earth. Perhaps it’s because we’re a decimal, experimental sphere . . . there’s just not enough info to nail this down yet. Until then, I side with mercy. If you recall, the midwayers defined friendship in this way:

    “Friendship is the first and basic human conviction. It is more than an emotion, it is greater than an impulse, it transcends a sentiment. There is something profound about friendship at its best. It is undoubtedly based on the sentiment of love, and has in association with it many other emotions, including, no doubt, both sympathy and respect. Friendship is the equivalent of love plus loyalty and more or less of the sex-element. It is so influential in human experience that there appear to be no lengths to which it will not go to assert itself and to justify its existence.”

    A homosexual relationship is a friendship with more of the sex-element.

    im ok with crossing this line

    its a behavior that cannot help progressive evolution. But again, I have stated before that I really do not know what degenerate destructive types that Adam and Eve were responsible for getting rid of. I only know that their feelings and realization of failure and being left alone especially when denied council from the Melchizedeks is something I can identify with and I also feel that we have inherited this same responsibility. I don’t have the wisdom to sort it out and I don’t know anybody that does. That don’t mean we don’t work on it and try to figure it out.

    i can identify many behaviors that id like to get rid of but that’s just me with my limited mentality lacking real wisdom – like most people. Yes, mercy is good but it’s not an excuse to do nothing.

11. K

    KerynMember
    Nov 11, 2017, 8:16 PM

    Gene wrote:

    im ok with crossing this line

    its a behavior that cannot help progressive evolution. But again, I have stated before that I really do not know what degenerate destructive types that Adam and Eve were responsible for getting rid of. I only know that their feelings and realization of failure and being left alone especially when denied council from the Melchizedeks is something I can identify with and I also feel that we have inherited this same responsibility. I don’t have the wisdom to sort it out and I don’t know anybody that does. That don’t mean we don’t work on it and try to figure it out.

    i can identify many behaviors that id like to get rid of but that’s just me with my limited mentality lacking real wisdom – like most people. Yes, mercy is good but it’s not an excuse to do nothing.

     

    How does disrespecting an entire group of human beings, just based on their sexual activity and choice of partner, help with progressive evolution?  What good does it do?  Where is the truth, beauty or goodness in it?

    You say ‘mercy is not an excuse to do nothing’.  What is the something that is being done or can be done by those who regard homosexuality with intolerance?

12. B

    BradlyParticipant
    Nov 11, 2017, 8:31 PM

    Mara wrote:

    Bradly wrote:

    I’m sorry….but your opinion is definitely defective and degenerate…..and is only your opinion….definitely. Careful of such poison.

    People have a right to have an opinion different from yours, Bradly. Tolerance is the earmark of a great soul. (156:5.18 )

    Indeed Mara….if one expresses their ‘opinion’ as such.  Enno wrote:  “I’m sorry but homosexuality is definitely defective and degenerate sexually.  It’s abnormal and defies nature.”

    Enno did not express an opinion….he declared a fact…..which  is a falsehood and not a fact.  Enno has quite a history of making such declarative statements of fact (falsehood).  We are all entitled to our opinions….but not our own facts.  My opinion is that Enno’s declaration is defective….and degenerate….and a contradiction to the UB in so many ways.

    And thanks for the topic….lots of illumination here.

    

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

13. G

    GeneParticipant
    Nov 11, 2017, 8:36 PM

    Keryn wrote:

    Gene wrote:

    im ok with crossing this line

    its a behavior that cannot help progressive evolution. But again, I have stated before that I really do not know what degenerate destructive types that Adam and Eve were responsible for getting rid of. I only know that their feelings and realization of failure and being left alone especially when denied council from the Melchizedeks is something I can identify with and I also feel that we have inherited this same responsibility. I don’t have the wisdom to sort it out and I don’t know anybody that does. That don’t mean we don’t work on it and try to figure it out.

    i can identify many behaviors that id like to get rid of but that’s just me with my limited mentality lacking real wisdom – like most people. Yes, mercy is good but it’s not an excuse to do nothing.

    How does disrespecting an entire group of human beings, just based on their sexual activity and choice of partner, help with progressive evolution? What good does it do? Where is the truth, beauty or goodness in it? You say ‘mercy is not an excuse to do nothing’. What is the something that is being done or can be done by those who regard homosexuality with intolerance?

    disrespect precieved is an assumption on your part.

    progressive evolution requires successful families and homo bi or trans sexuals cannot do family and cannot contribute to successful family.

    something to do is determine if these degenerate destructive behaviors are genetic and either get rid of the gene or stop producing children and spreading the defect.

    Stop teaching our kids and stop the media’s attempts to indoctrinate the public to believe these behaviors are normal.

    Just a start

    we can all make an effort to take responsibility for the human race and it’s success.

    what do you suggest? Maybe get rid of people like me?

14. K

    KerynMember
    Nov 11, 2017, 8:43 PM

    I’m against ‘getting rid’ of people.

15. B

    BonitaParticipant
    Nov 11, 2017, 8:48 PM

    Gene wrote:

    what do you suggest? Maybe get rid of people like me?

    I’m pretty sure that the people we need to get rid of are antisocial and their sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.  I’m confident they will find the gene for antisocial behavior, which does seem to run in families.  The Las Vegas shooter and his family come to immediate mind.  These are loveless people who cannot have a meaningful relationship with anyone, same sex or otherwise. If a person is capable of and desirous of maintaining a loving relationship with another person, that individual is a keeper.  I think you’re a keeper Gene.

16. B

    BradlyParticipant
    Nov 11, 2017, 9:28 PM

    I find it interesting that the Adamic eugenics plan includes two functions:  infusion of violet genes and isolation/prevention of undesirable traits…a proactive and positive form of breeding with results coming after many generations…all managed lovingly.

    And yet all gay people are born in and by hetero couples!  Demographic statistics are unreliable and don’t determine concrete estimates, but I did read that the number seems to be 1-4% depending on how the questions are asked and if bisexuality is included or not.  It is theorized that the percentage may fluctuate but appears relatively steady….neither declining nor increasing significantly….and recently (decades).

    Evidently….homosexuality is not being bred-out by heterosexual breeding and home culture.  Further evidence that it is nature and not nurture….people are born gay….and it is not difficult to discover such truth in youth without any exposure to gay culture or homosexuality.  Seems an odd thing to fear.  It’s not an infection one catches.  And it’s not a culture of conversion either.

    I studied some today on X and Y chromosones….so many combinations now known.  Interesting but inconclusive related to forming any personal opinion for me.  Gender identification is a mystery.

    Gene….I also think you’re a keeper….if we disagree on this one!  All God’s children are keepers and none should be gotten ‘rid’ of.  Not part of any divine or celestial delivered eugenics plan….ever.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

17. M

    MaraParticipant
    Nov 11, 2017, 9:44 PM

    Bradly wrote:

    ….if one expresses their ‘opinion’ as such.

    Bradly wrote:  Enno did not express an opinion….he declared a fact….

    You agreed that what he said was an opinion when you wrote:

    Bradly wrote:  I’m sorry….but your [VanAmadon] opinion is definitely defective and degenerate…..and is only your opinion….definitely.  Careful of such poison.

    And I, too, agree that he expressed an opinion.

    The topic delves into areas that people feel emotional about.  Let’s talk about the subject with dignity and in the manner we discuss other topics.

18. G

    GeneParticipant
    Nov 11, 2017, 10:07 PM

    Well the good news is that (as we are instructed) man did not fall from the Garden as was precieved in old bible translations. We have made evolutionary progress for thousands of years since the fall of the Garden in spite of so many setbacks from degenerate species, power hungry powerful people, crime, selfishness-the list is long.

    There is a big picture that is not very easy to observe and it confirms my knowing that the positive trend will continue and things that have real meanings and values will survive where things that don’t have meaning and value will not.

    we can all have some small part of this process if our goals, ambitions and actions are aligned with things that have real meaning and value. Amen

19. T

    tasParticipant
    Nov 12, 2017, 6:35 PM

    Gene wrote:

    progressive evolution requires successful families and homo bi or trans sexuals cannot do family and cannot contribute to successful family.

    ….

    Stop teaching our kids and stop the media’s attempts to indoctrinate the public to believe these behaviors are normal.

    That’s right about the importance of family, but The Urantia Book itself specifically and plainly says two people of the same sex can be bonded together in personal affection and be effective parents heading a family:

    “The most effective of all social groups is the family, more particularly the two parents. Personal affection is the spiritual bond which holds together these material associations. Such an effective relationship is also possible between two persons of the same sex” (160:2.4)

20. G

    GeneParticipant
    Nov 12, 2017, 7:36 PM

    160:2.4
    Symbolic communication between human beings predetermines the bringing into existence of social groups. The most effective of all social groups is the family, more particularly the two parents. Personal affection is the spiritual bond which holds together these material associations. Such an effective relationship is also possible between two persons of the same sex, as is so abundantly illustrated in the devotions of genuine friendships.
    160:2.5
    These associations of friendship and mutual affection are socializing and ennobling because they encourage and facilitate the following essential factors of the higher levels of the art of living:

    Lets not cherrypick the papers and copy the whole thing:

    there are examples of effective relationships given and friendly seems to me to be more the emphasis as opposed to same sex parents. Two people of the same sex can be friendly and socializing and ennobling.

    Devious minds can justify just about anything and the truth is it really don’t matter what I think

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