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Living Loyally

143 posts · 9 participants · started Jan 29, 2015, 6:43 PM

BonitaParticipant
Feb 15, 2015, 6:19 PM
Liberty must be restrained by love, motivated by loyalty and directed by wisdom.

177:2.7 It is true that many of the objectionable stunting influences and other cramping features of these olden Jewish homes have been virtually eliminated from many of the better-regulated modern homes. There is, indeed, more spontaneous freedom and far more personal liberty, but this liberty is not restrained by love, motivated by loyalty, nor directed by the intelligent discipline of wisdom.

Restrained by love is a concept foreign to many modern thinkers, and certainly a huge stumbling block for the disloyal.

54:4.6 This restraint of justice by mercy proves that God is love, and that such a God of love dominates the universes and in mercy controls the fate and judgment of all his creatures.
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 15, 2015, 11:24 PM
Please explain to me why liberty must be restrained by love when speaking in general. There the reference pertains to the home where children must be guided.

Bonita wrote:

54:4.6 This restraint of justice by mercy proves that God is love, and that such a God of love dominates the universes and in mercy controls the fate and judgment of all his creatures.

This says restraint of justice, not liberty.

Bonita wrote:

Restrained by love is a concept foreign to many modern thinkers, and certainly a huge stumbling block for the disloyal.

Explain yourself because you attempt to cause others to stumble. Who are you loyal to, Bonita? This is an outrage.
MaraParticipant
Feb 16, 2015, 12:17 AM

Bonita wrote: Restrained by love . . . .

I relate to this on the level of my personal family, and when I enlarge my perspective to include friends, associates, neighbors, the neighborhood, my social circles, clients, employees and so on, where the relationships are personal, not business, in nature, I am very alert to set boundaries, restrained by love, to prevent me from enabling the other party – the I-need-you-to-need-me sort of thing.. In other words I’m not a pushover, a patsy. And I do not spoon feed. To be good at this takes tact and diplomacy.
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 16, 2015, 12:40 PM

Mara wrote:

Bonita wrote: Restrained by love . . . .

I relate to this on the level of my personal family, and when I enlarge my perspective to include friends, associates, neighbors, the neighborhood, my social circles, clients, employees and so on, where the relationships are personal, not business, in nature, I am very alert to set boundaries, restrained by love, to prevent me from enabling the other party – the I-need-you-to-need-me sort of thing.. In other words I’m not a pushover, a patsy. And I do not spoon feed. To be good at this takes tact and diplomacy.

But this is not the “restraning” of love, this is more and more love. It is “tough” love.
BonitaParticipant
Feb 16, 2015, 3:01 PM

Mara wrote: To be good at this takes tact and diplomacy.

I agree. It takes a lot of faith and a lot of courage to lovingly prevent the chaos that comes from false liberty. Loyal living is a constant readjustment to the environment of both people and things. Relationships really matter and relationships must be restrained by love. I like to think that restrain means to keep in balance. The false liberty proponents think the word means to wield control over another person. But putting a baby in a crib is a loving act of restraint, not a power play of containment. Even some adults need cribs, as I see it.
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 17, 2015, 12:47 AM

Bonita wrote:

It takes a lot of faith and a lot of courage to lovingly prevent the chaos that comes from false liberty

What is false liberty? Define it and give examples.

Bonita wrote:

Even some adults need cribs, as I see it.

They are called prisons. Are you to be the warden?
BonitaParticipant
Feb 17, 2015, 5:10 PM
Living loyally is nothing more than the art of religious living. The art of religious living requires that you apply a spiritual desire to all levels of your being, including that part which exists in the material world. Many times this is where people put the brakes on, desiring to maintain a level of purity untainted by materiality. They want to keep their passions pure. Although a worthy goal, it can lead to perversions – recall Paul’s obsession with continence.

I think the purity of one’s passions and desires must spill over into the material world if they are true. And therein lies a paradox. The divine lies not only in lofty places but in the lowly ones as well. I think this is one of the hardest lessons for modern man to learn, how to sanctify a materialistic world; how to take the animal urge and purify it without losing its material value. This is where our current life dilemma lies, in determining how to sanctify our material life. It is not always a simple thing to do. I think it is important not to squelch desire on the physical level, but to learn how to elevate desire as it functions on a material level. You can do this by seeking truth beauty and goodness in all things.
MaraParticipant
Feb 17, 2015, 6:18 PM

Bonita wrote:

Living loyally is nothing more than the art of religious living. The art of religious living requires that you apply a spiritual desire to all levels of your being, including that part which exists in the material world.

This reminded me of on one of the morontia Master’s visits with the Apostles, two by two, at the lake when he spoke with the Alpheus twins.

192:2:13 Then he walked and talked with the Alpheus twins, James and Judas, and speaking to both of them, he asked, “James and Judas, do you believe in me?” And when they both answered, “Yes, Master, we do believe,” he said: “I will soon leave you. You see that I have already left you in the flesh. I tarry only a short time in this form before I go to my Father. You believe in me — you are my apostles, and you always will be. Go on believing and remembering your association with me, when I am gone, and after you have, perchance, returned to the work you used to do before you came to live with me. Never allow a change in your outward work to influence your allegiance. Have faith in God to the end of your days on earth. Never forget that, when you are a faith son of God, all upright work of the realm is sacred. Nothing which a son of God does can be common. Do your work, therefore, from this time on, as for God. And when you are through on this world, I have other and better worlds where you shall likewise work for me. And in all of this work, on this world and on other worlds, I will work with you, and my spirit shall dwell within you.”
BonitaParticipant
Feb 17, 2015, 6:34 PM
Then there’s also this one about applying spiritual desire to all aspects of one’s being, including the material:

34:7.7 The normal urges of animal beings and the natural appetites and impulses of the physical nature are not in conflict with even the highest spiritual attainment except in the minds of ignorant, mistaught, or unfortunately overconscientious persons.
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 18, 2015, 12:09 AM
No one here knows what is FALSE LIBERTY.
BonitaParticipant
Feb 18, 2015, 3:43 PM
I’m not sure why some people cannot stay on topic. It’s a mystery. The title of this thread is LIVING LOYALLY. It’s about doing God’s will, it’s about the living God, it’s about faith, trust and loyalty in God. This is a thread about GOD and man’s relationship with GOD and with TRUTH.

Truth is a person and therefore requires a relationship, and such a relationship depends upon loyalty and trust. Loyalty is meaningless without a person to be loyal to. One can be loyal to an idea or to a thing, but it is meaningless. Loyalty to a person engenders trust, and we know that faith and trust go together. When they say that faith alone is all you need to enter the kingdom of heaven, that is because faith also brings along with it loyalty and trust.

Have you ever wondered why Jesus asked James and Andrew so many times if they trusted him? To both of them he answered that if they trust him, they should trust their brethern more. That means being more loyal to the relationships, but all relationships begin with trusting Jesus first. The most important relationship of all is our relationship with Jesus as the Spirit of Truth, and this takes precedence over all human relationships. It is this relationship with Jesus which leads us to treat others as he treats us, now, today; and then, after we establish this relationship with Jesus, we can extend the same level of fellowship to others. Until we learn how to relate to Jesus, we cannot effectively relate to others. And it is this relationship with TRUTH that sets you free.

p1593:6 141:7.5 Jesus made it plain that he had come to establish personal and eternal relations with men which should forever take precedence over all other human relationships. And he emphasized that this intimate spiritual fellowship was to be extended to all men of all ages and of all social conditions among all peoples.
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 19, 2015, 12:29 AM

Bonita wrote:

I’m not sure why some people cannot stay on topic. It’s a mystery. The title of this thread is LIVING LOYALLY. It’s about doing God’s will, it’s about the living God, it’s about faith, trust and loyalty in God. This is a thread about GOD and man’s relationship with GOD and with TRUTH.

Liberty has nothing to do with GOD and man’s relationship with GOD? The most important gift God gives to creation is free will.

Can you relate that to LIBERTY?

Can you define and give examples of FALSE LIBERTY? Please!
BonitaParticipant
Feb 19, 2015, 1:42 PM
Living loyally is religious living. Religious living has the potential to turn a mediocre person into a personality of idealistic power (100:0.1). I think many people try to give the impression that they are personalities of idealistic power without actually living the religious life. And some of these charismatic people actually fool other people into idolizing them for their idealistic power, but it is an entirely empty and spiritually impotent life, doomed to fail. We’ve seen this over and over again throughout history. The hallmarks of religious living are described in Paper 100. We should strive for them in our own lives and look for them in other’s lives.
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 19, 2015, 2:15 PM

Bonita wrote:

The hallmarks of religious living are described in Paper 100.

Be good and do good.
BonitaParticipant
Feb 19, 2015, 2:35 PM
There are different levels of religious living: apostleship and discipleship. Not everyone is meant to be an apostle of the gospel.

140:6.9 If you find the requirements of apostleship too hard, you may return to the less rigorous pathway of discipleship.”
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 19, 2015, 2:38 PM

Bonita wrote:

There are different levels of religious living: apostleship and discipleship. Not everyone is meant to be an apostle of the gospel.

140:6.9 If you find the requirements of apostleship too hard, you may return to the less rigorous pathway of discipleship.”

Yes, but volunteers are always welcomed.
BonitaParticipant
Feb 19, 2015, 2:44 PM
I don’t think disciple and apostle are interchangeable, otherwise Christ himself would not have made a distinction between the two. Undoubtedly, the apostles were individuals who had an intimate and personal relationship with Jesus, their teacher, and apostles today must also have an intimate and personal relationship with Jesus. There were rigorous requirements and expectations for this family of his that were not demanded of disciples and the same holds true today.
emanny3003Blocked
Feb 19, 2015, 9:57 PM

Bonita wrote:

I don’t think disciple and apostle are interchangeable, otherwise Christ himself would not have made a distinction between the two.

Correction, volunteer disciples. The apostle Paul was…?
BonitaParticipant
Feb 20, 2015, 1:51 PM
Living loyally, or religious living, is a mode of living in which one gives wholehearted devotion to supreme values with an unquestioning loyalty. A sincere religionist is aware of universe citizenship and is also conscious of contact with superhuman powers.

Loyal living results in the ego surrendering to self-discipline which results in less emotional conflict and thus an ease of living. There is an intense striving for supermortal goals and ideals characterized by patience, fortitude and tolerance.

True religion is a living love which adds meaning to life, generates enthusiasm, courage and sublime peace. A sincere religionist maintains his sense of humor, exhibits cosmic poise due to his/her lack of doubt and inner turmoil. One who lives loyally enjoys a sense of security due to an ultimate confidence and trust in God.
MaraParticipant
Feb 20, 2015, 5:09 PM
What is “courageous loyalty” – one of the fruits of the divine spirit we are to immediately show forth, to live and to produce, once we’ve become born again?

193:2:2 “Salvation is the free gift of God, but those who are born of the spirit will immediately begin to show forth the fruits of the spirit in loving service to their fellow creatures. And the fruits of the divine spirit which are yielded in the lives of spirit-born and God-knowing mortals are: loving service, unselfish devotion, courageous loyalty, sincere fairness, enlightened honesty, undying hope, confiding trust, merciful ministry, unfailing goodness, forgiving tolerance, and enduring peace. If professed believers bear not these fruits of the divine spirit in their lives, they are dead; the Spirit of Truth is not in them; they are useless branches on the living vine, and they soon will be taken away. My Father requires of the children of faith that they bear much spirit fruit. If, therefore, you are not fruitful, he will dig about your roots and cut away your unfruitful branches. Increasingly, must you yield the fruits of the spirit as you progress heavenward in the kingdom of God. You may enter the kingdom as a child, but the Father requires that you grow up, by grace, to the full stature of spiritual adulthood. And when you go abroad to tell all nations the good news of this gospel, I will go before you, and my Spirit of Truth shall abide in your hearts. My peace I leave with you.”

The Apostle Thomas had a form of it. 139:8:1

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