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Is Beauty Really Necessary? What Is Beauty? Who Says What Is Beautiful?

100 posts · 13 participants · started Feb 16, 2016, 11:28 AM

  1. Abstraction admonitions:

    …Philosophers commit their gravest error when they are misled into the fallacy of abstraction, the practice of focusing the attention upon one aspect of reality and then of pronouncing such an isolated aspect to be the whole truth…. (42.6) 2:7.5

    …Your science is engaged in the agelong contest between truth and error while it fights for deliverance from the bondage of abstraction, the slavery of mathematics, and the relative blindness of mechanistic materialism…. (141.6) 12:9.5

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    Richard E Warren

  2. Well at least our science is fighting for deliverance from abstraction bondage – at least at the time of this revelation.

    the implication being that science has a goal that transcends itself?

  3. Well at least our science is fighting for deliverance from abstraction bondage – at least at the time of this revelation. the implication being that science has a goal that transcends itself?

    We can only hope, Gene. A true, beautiful, good science should never be satisfied with its status until it attains Absolute Truth, that place where science, philosophy and religion meet and agree on God.

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    Richard E Warren

  4. This Wikipedia article is germane here. It well reflects our current collective thinking on beauty. It starts off:

    Beauty is a characteristic of a person, animal, place, object, or idea that provides a perceptual experience of pleasure or satisfaction. Beauty is studied as part of aesthetics, sociology, social psychology, and culture. An “ideal beauty” is an entity which is admired, or possesses features widely attributed to beauty in a particular culture, for perfection.

    The experience of “beauty” often involves an interpretation of some entity as being in balance and harmony with nature, which may lead to feelings of attraction and emotional well-being. Because this can be a subjective experience, it is often said that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

    There is evidence that perceptions of beauty are evolutionarily determined, that things, aspects of people and landscapes considered beautiful are typically found in situations likely to give enhanced survival of the perceiving human’s genes.

    The “evidence” they cite is in these:

    The Oxford Handbook for Aesthetics

    Denis Dutton: A Darwinian theory of beauty | Video on TED.com

    Anyone here read the Oxford book?

    The TED video is 15 minutes of beauty dissection by a science oriented mind, without the least mention or question of the source of Beauty. The presenter does make a good case for the utility of beauty in evolution (mate selection), but nothing of Beauty’s power to arouse spiritual interest, to induce curiosity about the quintessential intangibles of life, to aid in effecting the worshipful state. Rather clinical and narrow I thought.

     

     

    Rayonnant rose window in Notre Dame de Paris. In Gothic architecture, light was considered the most beautiful revelation of God.

    Image and Article Source

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    Richard E Warren

  5. .

    Is math beautiful?? From Wikipedia:

    ANCIENT GREEK

    The earliest Western theory of beauty can be found in the works of early Greek philosophers from the pre-Socratic period, such as Pythagoras. The Pythagorean school saw a strong connection between mathematics and beauty. In particular, they noted that objects proportioned according to the golden ratio seemed more attractive. Ancient Greek architecture is based on this view of symmetry and proportion.

    Plato considered beauty to be the Idea (Form) above all other Ideas. Aristotle saw a relationship between the beautiful and virtue, arguing that “Virtue aims at the beautiful.”

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    Richard E Warren

  6. .i
    Is math beautiful to you?? From Wikipedia:

    Ancient Greek

    The earliest Western theory of beauty can be found in the works of early Greek philosophers from the pre-Socratic period, such as Pythagoras. The Pythagorean school saw a strong connection between mathematics and beauty. In particular, they noted that objects proportioned according to the golden ratio seemed more attractive. Ancient Greek architecture is based on this view of symmetry and proportion.

    Plato considered beauty to be the Idea (Form) above all other Ideas. Aristotle saw a relationship between the beautiful and virtue, arguing that “Virtue aims at the beautiful.”

     

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    Richard E Warren

  7. .
    Is math beautiful?? From Wikipedia:

    Ancient Greek
    The earliest Western theory of beauty can be found in the works of early Greek philosophers from the pre-Socratic period, such as Pythagoras. The Pythagorean school saw a strong connection between mathematics and beauty. In particular, they noted that objects proportioned according to the golden ratio seemed more attractive. Ancient Greek architecture is based on this view of symmetry and proportion.

    Plato considered beauty to be the Idea (Form) above all other Ideas. Aristotle saw a relationship between the beautiful and virtue, arguing that “Virtue aims at the beautiful.”

    .

    Richard E Warren

  8. . Is math beautiful?? From Wikipedia:

    Ancient Greek The earliest Western theory of beauty can be found in the works of early Greek philosophers from the pre-Socratic period, such as Pythagoras. The Pythagorean school saw a strong connection between mathematics and beauty. In particular, they noted that objects proportioned according to the golden ratio seemed more attractive. Ancient Greek architecture is based on this view of symmetry and proportion. Plato considered beauty to be the Idea (Form) above all other Ideas. Aristotle saw a relationship between the beautiful and virtue, arguing that “Virtue aims at the beautiful.”

    Yet more on that:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_beauty

    The mathematician Paul Erdős was a real character and one of the greatest mathematicians since Euler, he had this take on it:

    “Hungarian mathematician Paul Erdős spoke of an imaginary book, in which God has written down all the most beautiful mathematical proofs. When Erdős wanted to express particular appreciation of a proof, he would exclaim “This one’s from The Book!””

    This even inspired an actual book to be compiled with candidate proofs from “The Book”:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proofs_from_THE_BOOK

  9.  .
    The mathematician Paul Erdős was a real character and one of the greatest mathematicians since Euler, he had this take on it: “Hungarian mathematician Paul Erdős spoke of an imaginary book, in which God has written down all the most beautiful mathematical proofs. When Erdős wanted to express particular appreciation of a proof, he would exclaim “This one’s from The Book!””
     .
    This even inspired an actual book to be compiled with candidate proofs from “The Book”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proofs_from_THE_BOOK
     .

    Fascinating. Thanks tas! Here’s more from your link on the beauty of math, from philosopher, logician, mathematician, historian, writer, social critic and political activist Bertrand Russel:

    Mathematics, rightly viewed, possesses not only truth, but supreme beauty — a beauty cold and austere, like that of sculpture, without appeal to any part of our weaker nature, without the gorgeous trappings of painting or music, yet sublimely pure, and capable of a stern perfection such as only the greatest art can show. The true spirit of delight, the exaltation, the sense of being more than Man, which is the touchstone of the highest excellence, is to be found in mathematics as surely as poetry.

    More on “The Book” and Erdos:

    He had his own idiosyncratic vocabulary: Although an agnostic atheist, he spoke of “The Book”, a visualization of a book in which God had written down the best and most elegant proofs for mathematical theorems. Lecturing in 1985 he said, “You don’t have to believe in God, but you should believe in The Book.” He himself doubted the existence of God, whom he called the “Supreme Fascist” (SF). He accused SF of hiding his socks and Hungarian passports, and of keeping the most elegant mathematical proofs to himself. When he saw a particularly beautiful mathematical proof he would exclaim, “This one’s from The Book!” This later inspired a book titled Proofs from the Book.

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    Interesting that both Erdos and Russell were not believers in the Source of Beauty. Cold and austere indeed.

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    Richard E Warren

  10. . Interesting that both Erdos and Russell were not believers in the Source of Beauty. Cold and austere indeed.

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    Ha, well, I wouldn’t pin “cold and austere” on him…  Here he is introducing himself, Paul Erdös PGOM LD AD LD CD:

  11. .

    Ha, well, I wouldn’t pin “cold and austere” on him… Here he is introducing himself, Paul Erdös PGOM LD AD LD CD:

    Ok, not cold, tas. Austere we might have to disagree on :)  To me romancing numbers is like kissing a fencepost, unaffectionate and there is the danger of splinters. But I can appreciate that some do enjoy a jaunt in the land of math. And mathematics can reveal certain aspects of beauty, logic certainly. This video combines art and logic, it asks and answers the question: Is the world a work of art?

    https://youtu.be/sPbwki0qpQ4

    [PS: Skip to minute 44 for the connection to beauty.]

     

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    Richard E Warren

  12. .

    Have you thought much about the actual experience of Beauty? Don’t you first have to separate types of beauty, at least between the object and the feeling? Is Beauty a feeling, an experience, both maybe? And why should Beauty be a universe value? God must value Beauty or it would not be central to God’s being.

    So, apparently we have been endowed with this ability to both perceive and create Beauty, the so called aesthetic sense. Here’s a bit on the nature of this little talked about sensibility:

    Aesthetics, or the philosophy of art, is the study of beauty and taste. It is about interpreting works of art and art movements or theories. The term aesthetic is also used to designate a particular style, for example the “chess aesthetics”, or the “Japanese aesthetic”.

    As well as being applied to art, aesthetics can also be applied to cultural objects. Aesthetic design principles include ornamentation, edge delineation, texture, flow, solemnity, symmetry, color, granularity, the interaction of sunlight and shadows, transcendence, and harmony.

    The word aesthetic is also an adjective and adverb relating to cosmetology and medicine, as in aesthetic medicine.

    Also spelt æsthetics and esthetics, the word is derived from the Ancient Greek αἰσθητικός (aisthetikos, meaning “esthetic, sensitive, sentient, pertaining to sense perception”), which in turn was derived from αἰσθάνομαι (aisthanomai, meaning “I perceive, feel, sense”).

    Source/more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetics

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    Richard E Warren

  13. I’ll take a dip into your beauty topic Rick!

    If atheism (materialism) is defined as the maximation of ugliness, then I would say that the sliding scale of ugliness-beauty is a mental construct (that I just constructed!) where on one end God-does-not-exist, and at the other end exists God-in-his-glory.  When I think of materialism, vanity comes to mind.   I’m not suggesting vanity is to be abhorred.  Not at all.  After all my professional work is of a type of a very lucrative vanity industry.  People, men and women, do care about how their hair looks and spend a lot of money getting it right.  There is a place for vanity in our emotional life.

    68:2:10  If vanity be enlarged to cover pride, ambition, and honor, then we may discern not only how these propensities contribute to the formation of human associations, but how they also hold men together, since such emotions are futile without an audience to parade before. Soon vanity associated with itself other emotions and impulses which required a social arena wherein they might exhibit and gratify themselves. This group of emotions gave origin to the early beginnings of all art, ceremonial, and all forms of sportive games and contests.
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    Everyone wants to be beautiful, pretty, or handsome. (Well, maybe not everyone.)  Everyone wants the prefect body, according to one’s internal standards of perfection, in conjunction with one’s social and cultural standards.  But where do those internal perfection standards come from?  Any human standard of perfection fails, in my opinion, if it does not put in first place the unutterable aspirations of the human soul to be perfect, even as our Father in heaven is perfect. The maximation of ugliness is atheism, because God is denied by the mind of the individual who thinks God does not exist and who professes atheism.
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    A sliding scale of finite-cosmic beauty, might be expressed as: “Beauty, art, is largely a matter of the unification of contrasts. . . ”  man finding God and God finding man, also known as the apex of cosmic art.
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    56:10:3  Philosophy you somewhat grasp, and divinity you comprehend in worship, social service, and personal spiritual experience, but the pursuit of beauty–cosmology–you all too often limit to the study of man’s crude artistic endeavors. Beauty, art, is largely a matter of the unification of contrasts. Variety is essential to the concept of beauty. The supreme beauty, the height of finite art, is the drama of the unification of the vastness of the cosmic extremes of Creator and creature. Man finding God and God finding man–the creature becoming perfect as is the Creator–that is the supernal achievement of the supremely beautiful, the attainment of the apex of cosmic art.
  14. I’ll take a dip into your beauty topic Rick!

    If atheism (materialism) is defined as the maximation of ugliness, then I would say that the sliding scale of ugliness-beauty is a mental construct (that I just constructed!) where on one end God-does-not-exist, and at the other end exists God-in-his-glory. When I think of materialism, vanity comes to mind. I’m not suggesting vanity is to be abhorred. Not at all. After all my professional work is of a type of a very lucrative vanity industry. People, men and women, do care about how their hair looks and spend a lot of money getting it right. There is a place for vanity in our emotional life.

    68:2:10 If vanity be enlarged to cover pride, ambition, and honor, then we may discern not only how these propensities contribute to the formation of human associations, but how they also hold men together, since such emotions are futile without an audience to parade before. Soon vanity associated with itself other emotions and impulses which required a social arena wherein they might exhibit and gratify themselves. This group of emotions gave origin to the early beginnings of all art, ceremonial, and all forms of sportive games and contests.
    .
    Everyone wants to be beautiful, pretty, or handsome. (Well, maybe not everyone.) Everyone wants the prefect body, according to one’s internal standards of perfection, in conjunction with one’s social and cultural standards. But where do those internal perfection standards come from? Any human standard of perfection fails, in my opinion, if it does not put in first place the unutterable aspirations of the human soul to be perfect, even as our Father in heaven is perfect. The maximation of ugliness is atheism, because God is denied by the mind of the individual who thinks God does not exist and who professes atheism.
    .
    A sliding scale of finite-cosmic beauty, might be expressed as: “Beauty, art, is largely a matter of the unification of contrasts. . . ” man finding God and God finding man, also known as the apex of cosmic art.
    .
    56:10:3 Philosophy you somewhat grasp, and divinity you comprehend in worship, social service, and personal spiritual experience, but the pursuit of beauty–cosmology–you all too often limit to the study of man’s crude artistic endeavors. Beauty, art, is largely a matter of the unification of contrasts. Variety is essential to the concept of beauty. The supreme beauty, the height of finite art, is the drama of the unification of the vastness of the cosmic extremes of Creator and creature. Man finding God and God finding man–the creature becoming perfect as is the Creator–that is the supernal achievement of the supremely beautiful, the attainment of the apex of cosmic art.

    Thanks much for chiming in Mara,

    Good thoughts all.

    Since human physical beauty is so fleeting, I more and more disregard it, looking instead to the inner light shining out of the eyes, mind and heart. But you make an excellent and germane point about the value and history of vanity.

    In the human mind, the word beauty almost always evokes the human face. Especially the female face. For proof just google “beauty images”, you’ll see pages and pages of airbrushed female faces, virtually no male faces.

    The words “beautiful images” when googled bring far different photos, diverse and natural mostly, seldom does a male or female face appear. That’s a good sign.

    But, not until the Urantia Book do we find beauty permanently associated with the splendor of the cosmos. The stupendous living mechanism of the universe, integrated as it is on physical, intellectual and spiritual levels, is moving along to the rhythm and beat of The Creator. The magnificence of the Universe is ever changing, as The Great Orchestrator and Architect of the Cosmos rings out the harmonies of a compelling love that keeps the great family of Daughters and Sons busy building something else altogether Beautiful, the Supreme Being. How beautiful will the Supreme be, constructed of all the divine values that have been wrought and accumulated from time and space, lowly creatures’ values that continually drift into God’s project, our project, building an Experiential God whose substance is Truth, Beauty and Goodness, according to this:

    …God the Supreme is truth, beauty, and goodness, for these concepts of divinity represent finite maximums of ideational experience. The eternal sources of these triune qualities of divinity are on superfinite levels, but a creature could only conceive of such sources as supertruth, superbeauty, and supergoodness…. (1279:5) 117:1.7

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    Hmmm…Superbeauty!

    Richard E Warren

  15. Speaking of “beautiful” bodies. The Hindus teach this:

    “…When the end of mortal life comes, hesitate not to forsake this body for a more fit and beautiful form and to awake in the realms of the Supreme and Immortal, where there is no fear, sorrow, hunger, thirst, or death.” (1449.2) 131:4.7

    Now, that’s a beautiful vision. Altho I wonder about sorrow. What if on Mansonia one you love deeply, a child or a parent say, outright rejects God’s lavishly beautiful offer of eternal life and service as God’s offspring?

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    Richard E Warren

  16. Rick Warren wrote: Altho I wonder about sorrow.

    Well, if once we get to the mansion worlds we’re no higher than angels, then we’d probably have something akin to their emotions, and angels do have disappointment.  I’m guessing that would include some level of sorrow as well.  Just a guess.

    48:6.36 Even as mortals, so have these angels been father to many disappointments, and they will point out that sometimes your most disappointing disappointments have become your greatest blessings. Sometimes the planting of a seed necessitates its death, the death of your fondest hopes, before it can be reborn to bear the fruits of new life and new opportunity. And from them you will learn to suffer less through sorrow and disappointment, first, by making fewer personal plans concerning other personalities, and then, by accepting your lot when you have faithfully performed your duty.

  17. Rick Warren wrote: Altho I wonder about sorrow.

    Well, if once we get to the mansion worlds we’re no higher than angels, then we’d probably have something akin to their emotions, and angels do have disappointment. I’m guessing that would include some level of sorrow as well. Just a guess.

    48:6.36 Even as mortals, so have these angels been father to many disappointments, and they will point out that sometimes your most disappointing disappointments have become your greatest blessings. Sometimes the planting of a seed necessitates its death, the death of your fondest hopes, before it can be reborn to bear the fruits of new life and new opportunity. And from them you will learn to suffer less through sorrow and disappointment, first, by making fewer personal plans concerning other personalities, and then, by accepting your lot when you have faithfully performed your duty.

    Thanks Bonita. The panoply of emotions available to us is astonishingly rich and diverse, isn’t it?! And they probably increase with each life. But I can think of no way to relate sorrow to beauty, unless sorrow is seen as the fire that tempers us for fusion and eternity. If that is allowed, then all things incline to being fuel for the triune flame of Beauty, Goodness and Truth.

     

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    Richard E Warren

  18. Rick Warren wrote: But I can think of no way to relate sorrow to beauty, unless sorrow is seen as the fire that tempers us for fusion and eternity.

    I think sorrow and disappointment are necessities to growth and growth is beauty in progress, isn’t it?  If supreme beauty is the ” . . .  drama of the unification of the vastness of the cosmic extremes of Creator and creature,” (56:10.3) then the drama of sorrow must be part of it.  That is, if it can be unified somehow with the will of God.  Sorrow and suffering are related, and we know that God experiences our sorrow along with us as part of that drama of unification.  I don’t know if it’s a fire or an incentive to seek resolution and balance, but I do know that none of us escape it. We know that, “Health, sanity, and happiness are integrations of truth, beauty, and goodness as they are blended in human experience.”  I think in order to have happiness, you have to experience the opposite, then integrate it into reality in a beautiful way.  They do say that beauty always triumphs.

    p51:13  9. Is pleasure–the satisfaction of happiness–desirable? Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities.

  19. I think sorrow and disappointment are necessities to growth and growth is beauty in progress, isn’t it?

    Apparently. This echoes the teaching about goodness. To be known and appreciated goodness needs the potential and choice of evil. How many times did the authors mention that contrast?

    …The full appreciation of truth, beauty, and goodness is inherent in the perfection of the divine universe. The inhabitants of the Havona worlds do not require the potential of relative value levels as a choice stimulus; such perfect beings are able to identify and choose the good in the absence of all contrastive and thought-compelling moral situations…. (52.2) 3:5.16

    …The infinite goodness of the Father is beyond the comprehension of the finite mind of time; hence must there always be afforded a contrast with comparative evil (not sin) for the effective exhibition of all phases of relative goodness…. (58.4) 4:3.6

    …Perfection of divine goodness can be discerned by mortal imperfection of insight only because it stands in contrastive association with relative imperfection in the relationships of time and matter in the motions of space…. (58.4) 4:3.6

    …Goodness is found in the recognition of the positive truth-values of the spiritual level, which must, in human experience, be contrasted with the negative counterpart–the shadows of potential evil…. (1458.4) 132:2.7

    And there are others.

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    Richard E Warren

  20. .

    Another aspect of beauty, one that hasn’t been cited in this thread, is the bias around it. Although Mara did touch on it, alluding to vanity.  Let’s be totally honest about this, people who are considered attractive get the best jobs, the handsomest mates, a better education, better housing, and a free pass for so many of life’s hurdles, minor and major. They get the highest pay, most attention, and are given the most slack.

    It is not a coincidence that physically attractive people are actors, TV news presenters, and salesmen.  Humans consciously and unconsciously trust and usually want to be close to a beautiful individual, often regardless of their inner spiritual condition. Especially is this true of attractive young women.

    Is this beauty bias a good thing? Why is it that people discriminate in favor of beauty in the first place? Is there a way to see past a beautiful facade and discern whether it is skin deep or soul deep? And if Urantia had not gone off the rails into rebellion and we were in the first stage of Light and Life, would all humans be beautiful?

    Googling “The Beauty Bias” brings over 7 million hits! It’s real.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=the+beauty+bias&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

     

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    Richard E Warren

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