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Is Beauty Really Necessary? What Is Beauty? Who Says What Is Beautiful?

100 posts · 13 participants · started Feb 16, 2016, 11:28 AM

Richard E WarrenParticipant
Feb 18, 2016, 10:02 PM

Bonita wrote:

…Good thing for this little guy that wombats are marsupials, huh?

~Yeah, or get some sun glasses.

And yeah, I agree all divine values are beautiful.

So the mercy thing . . . here’s what I’m thinking. If the Spirit of Truth is also the spirit of idealistic beauty, then mercy has to be related to beauty too. The Son is concerned with mercy ministry (6:3-1-5). Divinity is comprehensible as TBG and correlated in personality as love, mercy and ministry (0:1.17). I think they’re all interrelated, but I think mercy is especially beautiful. If supreme beauty is the unification of extremes, particularly the vast extreme between creature and Creator (56:10.3), then mercy surely plays a role in this level of cosmic beauty. If it were not for mercy, the beauty of such an imponderable relationship could hardly come to fruition. Mercy is a beautiful personality characteristic of Deity, one which is worthy of striving to achieve.

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Just watching an act of kindness can bring a beautiful feeling of Godlikeness, which I gather has value, for God, actor and watcher.

Another thing we can talk about is the relationship between beauty and the attainment of cosmological levels of thought as explained in 56:10.5-8.

Oh, and by the way, the things Scruton was saying about the desire to get rid of both art and religion . . . we’re told in 56:10.4 that materialism (cult of utility) and atheism (cult of ugliness) is the antithesis of beauty. He nailed it.

Agree, give that man more hammers!

Ok. Cosmological thinking, it must mean thinking with your head in the sky and your feet on the ground?

And the author said:

The attainment of cosmologic levels of thought includes:

1. Curiosity. Hunger for harmony and thirst for beauty. Persistent attempts to discover new levels of harmonious cosmic relationships.

2. Aesthetic appreciation. Love of the beautiful and ever-advancing appreciation of the artistic touch of all creative manifestations on all levels of reality.

3. Ethic sensitivity. Through the realization of truth the appreciation of beauty leads to the sense of the eternal fitness of those things which impinge upon the recognition of divine goodness in Deity relations with all beings; and thus even cosmology leads to the pursuit of divine reality values — to God-consciousness. ^(646.6) ^56:10.5

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Richard E Warren
Nigel NunnParticipant
Feb 19, 2016, 2:04 AM
With regard to “the pursuit of beauty — cosmology” (646:4, 56:10.3), the original Greek concept involved “harmonious ordering”, to be contrasted with chaos. Harmonious ordering implies exquisite design, hence the connection with beauty. “Cosmetics” comes from the same root. Quite a word!

What a pale shadow the so-called cosmology of current science has become. But on this, we’re working

Nigel
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Feb 19, 2016, 11:54 AM

Nigel Nunn wrote:

With regard to “the pursuit of beauty — cosmology” (646:4, 56:10.3), the original Greek concept involved “harmonious ordering”, to be contrasted with chaos. Harmonious ordering implies exquisite design, hence the connection with beauty. “Cosmetics” comes from the same root. Quite a word! What a pale shadow the so-called cosmology of current science has become. But on this, we’re working Nigel

Good to hear it is being worked on, Nigel. Maybe someday evolved science will harmonize with the ‘exquisite design’. Too bad cosmetics has been reduced to face painting, improving the human appearance. I once mentioned to a reader on Facebook, that the authors associate cosmology with beauty. He opined there must have been a misunderstanding, a typo. The authors probably meant cosmetology instead of cosmology. I couldn’t convince him otherwise, since physical beauty is so often associated with make up and the human body.

As an astrophysicist you must surely have a deep appreciation for the infinite and diverse beauty of the cosmos, even to the point of saturation! Thanks for the input.

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Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Feb 19, 2016, 12:35 PM

The attainment of cosmologic levels of thought includes:

1. Curiosity. Hunger for harmony and thirst for beauty. Persistent attempts to discover new levels of harmonious cosmic relationships.

2. Aesthetic appreciation. Love of the beautiful and ever-advancing appreciation of the artistic touch of all creative manifestations on all levels of reality.

3. Ethic sensitivity. Through the realization of truth the appreciation of beauty leads to the sense of the eternal fitness of those things which impinge upon the recognition of divine goodness in Deity relations with all beings; and thus even cosmology leads to the pursuit of divine reality values — to God-consciousness. ^(646.6) ^56:10.5

Thanks for bringing the quote above to the fore, Bonita. It’s perfect grist for this thread.

Is it a good exercise to compare one’s thinking with the three points? The first one begs the question: How many of us: ‘Hunger for harmony and thirst for beauty’? Most I’d say. But not so much with the last part of point 1. Most may not discover new levels, for no other reason than most people aren’t aware of the existence or need of ‘cosmic relationships’. This must be where revelation and beauty intersect.

And on point two, don’t we all possess some measure of ‘aesthetic appreciation’? Maybe not ALL humans have a love of the beautiful. Indeed, the ‘artistic touch’ is still too rare. Is that because we don’t love beauty as much as we should? Because there is a shortage of creativity? Because we are lazy? Or is it simply that remoteness from God equals remoteness from beauty? Somewhere I remember reading that worship is a source of creative inspiration.

Ethics doesn’t seem like it would be directly associated with beauty. But ethics and beauty share common ground, they both represent cosmic value. Everyone lives by some code of ethics, but we, as a planet, haven’t yet made a solid connection from ethics to God, the source of all values divine.

So, Urantia is slowly, gradually coming to the realization of divine values, cosmic beauty, truth and goodness, but as usual, by the most circuitous route possible! If we could all somehow embrace the idea that beautiful thinking is the parent of beauty realized, more effort could and would be invested in curiosity about beauty, appreciation for it, and sensitivity to it.

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Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Feb 19, 2016, 3:09 PM

Rick Warren wrote: Ethics doesn’t seem like it would be directly associated with beauty. But ethics and beauty share common ground, they both represent cosmic value.

I was just thinking about this . . . great minds think alike, huh? It has something to do with what I was saying before about mercy. In order to show mercy, first you have to be just, fair, patient and kind, in that specific order (28:6.8). All of those qualities are ethical and moral in nature; they’re all characteristics of a beautiful nature; they all involve striving to be Godlike in nature. Attempting to be Godlike is beautiful.

So . . . if cosmology is the pursuit of beauty, then would cosmological thinking be the pursuit of beautiful thinking? Curiosity, aesthetic appreciation and ethic sensitivity are all part of beautiful thinking. I’ve spent a lot of time studying spiritualized thinking which is thinking with the soul. But beautiful thinking is probably a material mind level of thought that opens the mind to the soul, a way to train the mind to keep the gateway open.

A persistent desire to find harmonious relationships, a growing appreciation of creativity on all levels of reality and the recognition of Deity values in relationships reminds me of the quote about spiritual insight which states all we can do is discover, recognize, interpret and choose. Cosmological levels of beautiful thinking seems to be a door opener into spiritual insight.

We know that ethics can never rise higher than one’s faith. So beautiful, cosmological thinking might be a way to stimulate faith and broaden ethics; particularly if “Faith is the inspiration of the spiritized creative imagination. (132:3.5)” Also, we know that the supermind (Holy Spirit) of the soul, a circuit of the Creative Spirit, functions to enlarge viewpoints of ethics in the domain of human and divine relationships (103:0.1).

p1127:8 102:8.4 Ethics is the eternal social or racial mirror which faithfully reflects the otherwise unobservable progress of internal spiritual and religious developments.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Feb 19, 2016, 6:18 PM

Bonita wrote:

I was just thinking about this . . . great minds think alike, huh? It has something to do with what I was saying before about mercy. In order to show mercy, first you have to be just, fair, patient and kind, in that specific order (28:6.8). All of those qualities are ethical and moral in nature; they’re all characteristics of a beautiful nature; they all involve striving to be Godlike in nature. Attempting to be Godlike is beautiful. So . . . if cosmology is the pursuit of beauty, then would cosmological thinking be the pursuit of beautiful thinking? Curiosity, aesthetic appreciation and ethic sensitivity are all part of beautiful thinking. I’ve spent a lot of time studying spiritualized thinking which is thinking with the soul. But beautiful thinking is probably a material mind level of thought that opens the mind to the soul, a way to train the mind to keep the gateway open. A persistent desire to find harmonious relationships, a growing appreciation of creativity on all levels of reality and the recognition of Deity values in relationships reminds me of the quote about spiritual insight which states all we can do is discover, recognize, interpret and choose. Cosmological levels of beautiful thinking seems to be a door opener into spiritual insight. We know that ethics can never rise higher than one’s faith. So beautiful, cosmological thinking might be a way to stimulate faith and broaden ethics; particularly if “Faith is the inspiration of the spiritized creative imagination. (132:3.5)” Also, we know that the supermind (Holy Spirit) of the soul, a circuit of the Creative Spirit, functions to enlarge viewpoints of ethics in the domain of human and divine relationships (103:0.1).

p1127:8 102:8.4 Ethics is the eternal social or racial mirror which faithfully reflects the otherwise unobservable progress of internal spiritual and religious developments.

Thanks Bonita, I can’t improve on that.

To your question: “So . . . if cosmology is the pursuit of beauty, then would cosmological thinking be the pursuit of beautiful thinking?”

Pursuit could imply a chase. Can we ever catch beauty? Or beautiful thinking? But pursuit is also a laudable thing, to pursue a college education is good. This ties closely to another unforgettable line, this one from an Archangel:

…At first life was a struggle for existence; now, for a standard of living; next it will be for quality of thinking, the coming earthly goal of human existence…. 81:6:28

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If we have the power to control the quality of our thinking, why would we not want to cultivate beautiful thinking? Have you noticed how the mind has to be trained?! And a Solitary Messenger talks about that too:

…you do not spiritually develop and discipline your minds to the point of favorable liaison with the divine Adjusters…. 110:7:6

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Beautiful thoughts surely resonate with our Indweller.

P.

Richard E Warren
AnonymousInactive
Feb 19, 2016, 7:51 PM

Rick Warren wrote:

To your question: “So . . . if cosmology is the pursuit of beauty, then would cosmological thinking be the pursuit of beautiful thinking?”

Pursuit could imply a chase. Can we ever catch beauty? Or beautiful thinking? But pursuit is also a laudable thing, to pursue a college education is good. [. . .]

If we have the power to control the quality of our thinking, why would we not want to cultivate beautiful thinking? Have you noticed how the mind has to be trained?! [. . .]

Rick, I understand your implication but in the one which implies to “pursue a college education” which by definition is only good if one has a purpose to achieve a required education to that or a pursuit of a specific profession, which sometimes does not foster “the pursuit of beautiful thinking?”, and only mimics that which may only be beautiful to others, and not for the desire or need of self?

I have seen to many persons spend time in pursuit of a degree, only to end up using that degree in an unrelated field or profession, supervising those who have, from experience, acquired true knowledge of this associated profession, only to be either belittled or detoured from that profession by those with worthless degrees or papers, which then degrades that profession. As has been said: “Those who can’t do, teach. And those who can’t teach, teach gym.” Notwithstanding, that those who teach are required to retain some experience and knowledge, but when those who teach, teach to produce images of themselves, do not produce beautiful thinkers, but only that which is considered as beautiful by others, like “monkey see, monkey do”.

Therefore, can you elaborate on you mention of “…to pursue a college education is good…”, or is this your actual thinking? Where in order to become a plumber or electrician, etc., would require an education of sorts, and could be benefitted by college courses which are related to that pursuit, depending on the desire of profession, but is it necessary therefore “to cultivate beautiful thinking?”
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Feb 20, 2016, 1:02 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

…Therefore, can you elaborate on you mention of “…to pursue a college education is good…”, or is this your actual thinking?

Seems like a well rounded education is good for all ‘normal minded’ humans. How can people live wisely and successfully without first knowing the local conditions, the state of the world, the enveloping universe, and their place in it all? But I get your point, not all are suited for college, vocational education is also good. That is your point, or did I miss it?

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Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Feb 20, 2016, 4:15 PM

Rick Warren wrote: Have you noticed how the mind has to be trained?!

Yes, regularly. The untrained mind seems to be a rather annoying problem, wouldn’t you say? Since an untrained mind often results in an untrained mouth. And an untrained mouth is a constant source of trouble, especially here on this forum. Just ask moderator 2. I appear to be most guilty. It’s my downfall. Alas, I’ll never be great.

28:6.20 And the manifestation of greatness on a world like Urantia is the exhibition of self-control. The great man is not he who “takes a city” or “overthrows a nation,” but rather “he who subdues his own tongue.”

I think it’s interesting how the words disciple and discipline are so closely related. They both have learning and knowledge as the meaning of their latin base. I see disciplining the mind as a form of discipleship; it involves learning God’s way to think and act. And that’s pretty beautiful when tried. But it is a work in progress. The revelators give a list of ways to discipline our thinking:

100:1.8 Religious habits of thinking and acting are contributory to the economy of spiritual growth. One can develop religious predispositions toward favorable reaction to spiritual stimuli, a sort of conditioned spritual reflex. Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one’s spiritual life with one’s fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.

Do you think this list includes curiosity, aesthetic appreciation and ethic sensitivity? I do.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Feb 20, 2016, 4:53 PM

Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote: Have you noticed how the mind has to be trained?!

Yes, regularly. The untrained mind seems to be a rather annoying problem, wouldn’t you say? Since an untrained mind often results in an untrained mouth. And an untrained mouth is a constant source of trouble, especially here on this forum. Just ask moderator 2. I appear to be most guilty. It’s my downfall. Alas, I’ll never be great.

It’s annoying the way it jumps around without my permission! I must have trained it that way. Why don’t these minds come to us already trained? :)

28:6.20 And the manifestation of greatness on a world like Urantia is the exhibition of self-control. The great man is not he who “takes a city” or “overthrows a nation,” but rather “he who subdues his own tongue.”

I think it’s interesting how the words disciple and discipline are so closely related. They both have learning and knowledge as the meaning of their latin base. I see disciplining the mind as a form of discipleship; it involves learning God’s way to think and act. And that’s pretty beautiful when tried. But it is a work in progress. The revelators give a list of ways to discipline our thinking:

Interesting point.

100:1.8 Religious habits of thinking and acting are contributory to the economy of spiritual growth. One can develop religious predispositions toward favorable reaction to spiritual stimuli, a sort of conditioned spritual reflex. Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one’s spiritual life with one’s fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.

Do you think this list includes curiosity, aesthetic appreciation and ethic sensitivity? I do.

Agreed, and in cosmic proportions

And thanks, that’s a very instructive (and beautiful) paragraph from Melechizedek. The authors also use the word meditation a couple of dozen times, and how the Master spent “long hours” at it.

…The results of this momentous season of meditation demonstrated conclusively that the divine mind has triumphantly and spiritually dominated the human intellect. The mind of man has become the mind of God from this time on, and though the selfhood of the mind of man is ever present, always does this spiritualized human mind say, “Not my will but yours be done.” 136:4:4

.

Rodan declared:

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…But the greatest of all methods of problem solving I have learned from Jesus, your Master. I refer to that which he so consistently practices, and which he has so faithfully taught you, the isolation of worshipful meditation…. 160:1:10

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The Master, talking to Peter:

“…Let experience teach you the value of meditation and the power of intelligent reflection.” 192:2:2

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Richard E Warren
BradlyParticipant
Feb 20, 2016, 5:26 PM
Hey Gang!! What a marvelous study…thanks to all. As to curiosity:

14:5.7 (159.3) Not until you traverse the last of the Havona circuits and visit the last of the Havona worlds, will the tonic of adventure and the stimulus of curiosity disappear from your career. And then will the urge, the forward impulse of eternity, replace its forerunner, the adventure lure of time.

14:5.8 (159.4) Monotony is indicative of immaturity of the creative imagination and inactivity of intellectual co-ordination with the spiritual endowment. By the time an ascendant mortal begins the exploration of these heavenly worlds, he has already attained emotional, intellectual, and social, if not spiritual, maturity.

14:5.9 (159.5) Not only will you find undreamed-of changes confronting you as you advance from circuit to circuit in Havona, but your astonishment will be inexpressible as you progress from planet to planet within each circuit. Each of these billion study worlds is a veritable university of surprises. Continuing astonishment, unending wonder, is the experience of those who traverse these circuits and tour these gigantic spheres. Monotony is not a part of the Havona career.

14:5.10 (159.6) Love of adventure, curiosity, and dread of monotony — these traits inherent in evolving human nature — were not put there just to aggravate and annoy you during your short sojourn on earth, but rather to suggest to you that death is only the beginning of an endless career of adventure, an everlasting life of anticipation, an eternal voyage of discovery.

14:5.11 (160.1) Curiosity — the spirit of investigation, the urge of discovery, the drive of exploration — is a part of the inborn and divine endowment of evolutionary space creatures. These natural impulses were not given you merely to be frustrated and repressed. True, these ambitious urges must frequently be restrained during your short life on earth, disappointment must be often experienced, but they are to be fully realized and gloriously gratified during the long ages to come.

Me here: Learning is beautiful in and of itself, indeed! Wonder and curiosity propel the mind forward while uncertainty is required for adventure!! We reside in a near-endless education in the universe-ity of creation! What a blessing that there is to be no monotony for the pilgrims of time and space….from tadpole to fusion (frogdom) to agondontor/finaliter. Glorious! And when we get to the next level of being and service, new adventures and education and experience still await….education is an eternal adventure. We are to embrace it. We can never know enough or love enough…but there is an endless supply of both knowledge to acquire and love to give.

The Revelation makes me so glad to be a happy and joyful child in the creation and family of God. It makes me smile and laugh in my wonder and my uncertainties….it’s all such an adventure! The process itself has its own beauty as well as its beautiful result I think…..unifying is as beautiful as unification to the earnest student.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
BonitaParticipant
Feb 20, 2016, 6:16 PM

Rick Warren wrote:

Why don’t these minds come to us already trained? :)

Because the gods want us to realize how stupid we are, otherwise we’d have giant egos like the great trained mind of Lucifer himself. But thank the gods that we have access to the mind of Jesus. Now there’s a beautiful mind. So peaceful. No conflict whatsoever. Just kindness and caring.

So why aren’t more people curious about the mind of Jesus? Why don’t more people appreciate its aesthetic beauty and ethic sensitivity? Eh, what do you expect from the cult of ugliness, those folks who threw Jesus under the bus along with the religion started about him. Remember Piss Christ by Andres Serrano? Sigh. Modern culture is in such a state of decay. No wonder so few are happy. No wonder there are so many HUGE egos around, so many untrained minds.
GeneParticipant
Feb 20, 2016, 8:06 PM
I pray and plead almost daily for Jesus’ mind to take hold and get in there and get working.

just don’t seem to happen.

me is dominant

but there is hope, me will step aside when least expected.
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Feb 22, 2016, 1:01 PM

Bradly wrote:

Hey Gang!! What a marvelous study…thanks to all. As to curiosity: 14:5.7 (159.3) Not until you traverse the last of the Havona circuits and visit the last of the Havona worlds, will the tonic of adventure and the stimulus of curiosity disappear from your career. And then will the urge, the forward impulse of eternity, replace its forerunner, the adventure lure of time. 14:5.8 (159.4) Monotony is indicative of immaturity of the creative imagination and inactivity of intellectual co-ordination with the spiritual endowment. By the time an ascendant mortal begins the exploration of these heavenly worlds, he has already attained emotional, intellectual, and social, if not spiritual, maturity. 14:5.9 (159.5) Not only will you find undreamed-of changes confronting you as you advance from circuit to circuit in Havona, but your astonishment will be inexpressible as you progress from planet to planet within each circuit. Each of these billion study worlds is a veritable university of surprises. Continuing astonishment, unending wonder, is the experience of those who traverse these circuits and tour these gigantic spheres. Monotony is not a part of the Havona career. 14:5.10 (159.6) Love of adventure, curiosity, and dread of monotony — these traits inherent in evolving human nature — were not put there just to aggravate and annoy you during your short sojourn on earth, but rather to suggest to you that death is only the beginning of an endless career of adventure, an everlasting life of anticipation, an eternal voyage of discovery. 14:5.11 (160.1) Curiosity — the spirit of investigation, the urge of discovery, the drive of exploration — is a part of the inborn and divine endowment of evolutionary space creatures. These natural impulses were not given you merely to be frustrated and repressed. True, these ambitious urges must frequently be restrained during your short life on earth, disappointment must be often experienced, but they are to be fully realized and gloriously gratified during the long ages to come. Me here: Learning is beautiful in and of itself, indeed! Wonder and curiosity propel the mind forward while uncertainty is required for adventure!! We reside in a near-endless education in the universe-ity of creation! What a blessing that there is to be no monotony for the pilgrims of time and space….from tadpole to fusion (frogdom) to agondontor/finaliter. Glorious! And when we get to the next level of being and service, new adventures and education and experience still await….education is an eternal adventure. We are to embrace it. We can never know enough or love enough…but there is an endless supply of both knowledge to acquire and love to give. The Revelation makes me so glad to be a happy and joyful child in the creation and family of God. It makes me smile and laugh in my wonder and my uncertainties….it’s all such an adventure! The process itself has its own beauty as well as its beautiful result I think…..unifying is as beautiful as unification to the earnest student.

You are an adventurer, Bradley. Equipped with abundant curiosity and enthusiasm evidently. Even way out here on Urantia, those billion beautiful worlds of Havona await us curious tadpoles. Shed tail, grow legs strong enough to jump from one world to the next.

Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Feb 22, 2016, 1:13 PM

Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote:

Why don’t these minds come to us already trained? :)

Because the gods want us to realize how stupid we are, otherwise we’d have giant egos like the great trained mind of Lucifer himself. But thank the gods that we have access to the mind of Jesus. Now there’s a beautiful mind. So peaceful. No conflict whatsoever. Just kindness and caring. So why aren’t more people curious about the mind of Jesus? Why don’t more people appreciate its aesthetic beauty and ethic sensitivity? Eh, what do you expect from the cult of ugliness, those folks who threw Jesus under the bus along with the religion started about him. Remember Piss Christ by Andres Serrano? Sigh. Modern culture is in such a state of decay. No wonder so few are happy. No wonder there are so many HUGE egos around, so many untrained minds.

We created this culture, and it is always evolving, therefore it can improve. How best to train the mind for beautiful thinking? Personally speaking, it’s a matter of taking the reins of mind, saying let’s go over here. Mind itself is a beautiful gift, and a big mystery to most I think. What to do to entreat our siblings into seeking the mind of God? Couldn’t hurt to build more and better parks, appealing architecture, excellent gardens, love saturated souls.

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Richard E Warren
Richard E WarrenParticipant
Feb 22, 2016, 1:18 PM

Gene wrote:

I pray and plead almost daily for Jesus’ mind to take hold and get in there and get working. just don’t seem to happen. me is dominant but there is hope, me will step aside when least expected.

Thanks. A beauty of an insight shared. That ‘when least expected’ thing is also beautiful when it happens, isn’t it?!

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Richard E Warren
BonitaParticipant
Feb 22, 2016, 2:53 PM

Rick Warren wrote:

How best to train the mind for beautiful thinking? Personally speaking, it’s a matter of taking the reins of mind, saying let’s go over here. Mind itself is a beautiful gift, and a big mystery to most I think. What to do to entreat our siblings into seeking the mind of God? Couldn’t hurt to build more and better parks, appealing architecture, excellent gardens, love saturated souls.

I think the best way to train the mind is to pray without ceasing. We should entreat our siblings to pray. But I’ve been saying that for years and years now and getting nowhere with it. I supposed the modern world prefers the word “meditate,” which has been corrupted to mean attend a yoga class.

I agree that the mind is a big mystery. I find it fascinating that TUB arrived during the era when psychiatry became a fad. Everyone was curious about how the mind worked, including Sadler. Today we have a burgeoning interest in neuroscience and cognitive science which are cousins to psychology and psychiatry. Also interesting is TUB’s definition of psychology- the study of someone else’s religion. But funny how religion is rarely mentioned by these scientists.

103:6.1 Theology is always the study of your religion; the study of another’s religion is psychology.
GeneParticipant
Feb 22, 2016, 3:07 PM
. I find it fascinating that TUB arrived during the era when psychiatry became a fad

that said: contrast Freud who studied degenerates to Maslow who studied success.

no timing connections there eh?
BonitaParticipant
Feb 22, 2016, 4:13 PM

Gene wrote: . . . that said: contrast Freud who studied degenerates to Maslow who studied success. no timing connections there eh?

Not sure where you’re going with that Gene. Freud studied the unconscious mind and how it motivates behavior. Maslow studied the conscious mind and how it motivates behavior. Both are valid. Freud mostly studied sick people and tried to make them better. Maslow studied healthy people to understand why they are better. Maslow was a humanist (anti-spirituality), Freud was agnostic, or possibly atheistic. That makes them equal in that regard. They overlapped one another time wise: Maslow 1908-1970; Freud 1856-1939. TUB dates: 1924-1955.

What’s your point?
BradlyParticipant
Feb 22, 2016, 10:57 PM
Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote:

How best to train the mind for beautiful thinking? Personally speaking, it’s a matter of taking the reins of mind, saying let’s go over here. Mind itself is a beautiful gift, and a big mystery to most I think. What to do to entreat our siblings into seeking the mind of God? Couldn’t hurt to build more and better parks, appealing architecture, excellent gardens, love saturated souls.

(Bonita responds)

I think the best way to train the mind is to pray without ceasing. We should entreat our siblings to pray. But I’ve been saying that for years and years now and getting nowhere with it. I supposed the modern world prefers the word “meditate,” which has been corrupted to mean attend a yoga class. I agree that the mind is a big mystery. I find it fascinating that TUB arrived during the era when psychiatry became a fad. Everyone was curious about how the mind worked, including Sadler. Today we have a burgeoning interest in neuroscience and cognitive science which are cousins to psychology and psychiatry. Also interesting is TUB’s definition of psychology- the study of someone else’s religion. But funny how religion is rarely mentioned by these scientists.

103:6.1 Theology is always the study of your religion; the study of another’s religion is psychology.

Me here: That quote puzzled me for a long time and I’d be interested in reflections on it. Psychology, by human definition, entails much in mind I would not define as “religious or religion”. So what’s being said here? Is “the study of another’s religion” all of psychology or just an element of psychology? I think the psychology of the happy mind vs. the unhappy mind would be most useful and an incentive to train the mind in happiness……as opposed to the pursuit of pleasure as a hollow and false substitute for that specific fruit of the Spirit. Can one be happy without religious experience and progress and that transcendent perspective outside one’s own self importance?

Is this definition more universal and less mortal in its application? For all who survive the world of birth must be religious and have religion. Do all mortal minds attended to by the Spirits of the Father, Mother, and Son have “religion” inherently? Thanks.

"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

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