65:2.8 He who is a hireling, when danger arises, will flee and allow the sheep to be scattered and destroyed; but the true shepherd will not flee when the wolf comes; he will protect his flock and, if necessary, lay down his life for his sheep.
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Has the Lucifer rebellion been adjudicated?
114 posts · 10 participants · started Jun 11, 2016, 5:10 PM
- MidiChlorian wrote:it would seem that there also has not been a decisive presentation as to what “rebellion” actually is
(53:2.5) It is very difficult to point out the exact cause or causes which finally culminated in the Lucifer rebellion. We are certain of only one thing, and that is: Whatever these first beginnings were, they had their origin in Lucifer’s mind. There must have been a pride of self that nourished itself to the point of self-deception, so that Lucifer for a time really persuaded himself that his contemplation of rebellion was actually for the good of the system, if not of the universe. By the time his plans had developed to the point of disillusionment, no doubt he had gone too far for his original and mischief-making pride to permit him to stop. At some point in this experience he became insincere, and evil evolved into deliberate and willful sin.
Normally, when the point of disillusionment is reached, that’s when we admit that we’re wrong. Otherwise, we’ll be contributing to the presentation of what “rebellion” actually is.
(184:2.12) It requires a great and noble character, having started out wrong, to turn about and go right. All too often one’s own mind tends to justify continuance in the path of error when once it is entered upon.
Thanks so much for this insight and to both you and Bonita for the very relevant quotes (and the POPPYCOCK Alert too!). I agree there is no “hive mind”. For mortals, it is true that our TAs are fully connected to many other mind-ministers and to one another as I recall and then there is “reflectivity” to consider – but this is far different than collective mind. All mind circuits are circuits, not a shared singular mind or a super-mind or controlling mind – this would falsify free will I think and prevent the very real results of potential and realization and expression of free will. The mind’s ability to freely experience and express that experience results in individuation and uniqueness that is at the core of free will.
Thanks Bonita for the supporting text on the “limits” of free will related to the limits applied to the consequences or repurcussions of free will based on the authority, experience, wisdom, and ascendant status or created status of every mind, which supports earlier points and text. There are circuit breakers or governors if you will which place practical “result-limits” on evil/error and sin/iniquity. The free will is unlimited, but its repurcussions on others is limited indeed until such a time error is unattended by intentional sin and iniquity. The universes appear to have such a “line” for the creatures of time and space. We must remember, that no Lanonandeks have actually yet ascended to Paradise like mortal ascenders/finaliters have. Such created beings await the jubilees of their System, Constellation, and Local Universe (or so I recall….but am eager for correction on this point!). Truly, mortal borns have a much quicker route to Paradise, along with our Seraphim Guardians and, of course our TA which becomes one with us upon that journey.
I wonder if this might be a source of impatience in the other Sons of the Michael’s creation? They see all these lowly mortal born ascenders travel to Paradise along with their angels and even come back long before others even begin this ultimate (actually only “next”) leg of the adventure? We are told impatience, like self importance, leads to all manner of evil/error and misjudgment. We have more than one such example right here in our own planetary history!
Lucifer’s folly was not initially iniquity….it was error which became sin when all counsel and patience was refused and denied which became a personal embrace of iniquity….when sincerity departs the equation of experience becoming wisdom, the mind begins to warp and fold in upon itself in self importance and denial of reality – loving service to others (the will of God and the way of Michael and the universe of universes is reality itself). So I find the quotes above important in finding that line of debarkation from sanity and loyalty to insanity and betrayal of trust that Lucifer and all rebels crossed sometime during their treason.
But, according to earlier text posted, that many other Lanonandeks who crossed this line had sufficient “character” to face their failure (failure is the mirror of our true self we are told) and repent and re-embrace reality, love, truth, beauty, and goodness. It is unfortunate for others that the longer and tighter a warped mind grips their own self importance, the less and less real they become. This may make the way back harder to be sure…..but still is mercy available….and still, perhaps, it may yet yield contrition, repentance, and a return to the fold of Michael for those holdouts who hide in their self constructed un-realities.
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."
- Bradly wrote: The free will is unlimited,
Free will is not unlimited. Free will is relative.
118.6.4All volition is relative. In the originating sense, only the Father-I AM possesses finality of volition; in the absolute sense, only the Father, the Son, and the Spirit exhibit the prerogatives of volition unconditioned by time and unlimited by space. Mortal man is endowed with free will, the power of choice, and though such choosing is not absolute, nevertheless, it is relatively final on the finite level and concerning the destiny of the choosing personality.
118.8.1 In the time-space creations, free will is hedged about with restraints, with limitations. Material-life evolution is first mechanical, then mind activated, and (after the bestowal of personality) it may become spirit directed. Organic evolution on the inhabited worlds is physically limited by the potentials of the original physical-life implantations of the Life Carriers.
118.9.2 Mechanisms produced by higher minds function to liberate their creative sources but to some degree unvaryingly limit the action of all subordinate intelligences. To the creatures of the universes this limitation becomes apparent as the mechanism of the universes. Man does not have unfettered free will; there are limits to his range of choice, but within the radius of this choice his will is relatively sovereign.
(151:2.5) That I am right is fully proved by the fact that, whereas we were all of one mind an hour ago, now are we divided into two separate groups who hold different opinions
Silly humans.
192:2.4 Then said Jesus: “Feed my sheep. Do not forsake the flock. Be an example and an inspiration to all your fellow shepherds. Love the flock as I have loved you and devote yourself to their welfare even as I have devoted my life to your welfare. And follow after me even to the end.”
(196:0.13) Jesus does not require his disciples to believe in him but rather to believe with him, believe in the reality of the love of God and in full confidence accept the security of the assurance of sonship with the heavenly Father. The Master desires that all his followers should fully share his transcendent faith. Jesus most touchingly challenged his followers, not only to believe what he believed, but also to believe as he believed. This is the full significance of his one supreme requirement, “Follow me.”
It’s all so easy to talk about
doing it is that wholehearted commitment to do Gods will.
doing it is not so easy – for me anyway.
131:2.7 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures; he leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in the paths of righteousness. Yes, even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for God is with me. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
It’s all so easy to talk about doing it is that wholehearted commitment to do Gods will. doing it is not so easy – for me anyway.
Might it be that you are too hard on yourself? And might expecting perfection of oneself have something to do with perfection hunger? (102:1:6) I think all of us have shortcomings of one kind or another. For me some days are better than others. We’re human! But the Spirit of Truth always shows us the way. (34:7:8)
I’ve had to curb the tendency to overthink things. Having a friend/s to talk over these Urantia topics helps, because by having their viewpoint or interpretation of concepts in the book, I get more balanced in what I might be thinking. What I might be thinking could be partially or completely wrong! I am committed to right thinking as much as possible. The body (my brain) might be weak, but my spirit is always trying to help me.
111:1:5 […] Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.
155:6:13 […] While the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, it is indeed the gateway thereto.Lucifer, we’re informed, had a brilliant mind. But he began to exalt his own mind (53:2:3) In his own mind he conceived his traitorous ideas against God and developed his plans of rebellion as an attempt to short-circuit the plans of the Universal Father by swinging all of Satania over to his theories of “home-rule” and the delusion of self–assertion – his so-called “personal liberty” – completely in opposition to the will of Michael and to the plans of the Universal Father. He promulgated his theories. He thought he could accomplish his goal. He attempted to do the nondoable. But neither he, nor you, nor I can do the nondoable. God does not do the ungodlike act. (3:3:5)But, according to earlier text posted, that many other Lanonandeks who crossed this line had sufficient “character” to face their failure (failure is the mirror of our true self we are told) and repent and re-embrace reality, love, truth, beauty, and goodness. It is unfortunate for others that the longer and tighter a warped mind grips their own self importance, the less and less real they become. This may make the way back harder to be sure…..but still is mercy available….and still, perhaps, it may yet yield contrition, repentance, and a return to the fold of Michael for those holdouts who hide in their self constructed un-realities.
Bradly, I am intrigued by your presentation and use of “reality” and its variations, but could there be a different reality depending on position or location within the universe(s), in that we as humans on Urantia would define reality differently based on our location in time and space or from experiences which we may have encountered? So, by your use of “re-embrace reality”, in reference to “Lanonandeks” as to “failure”, can we really understand how they would perceive reality? Would, this reality be truth as they see or understand it, based on their experiences? Also, can you expand on your notation above presenting “those holdouts who hide in their self constructed un-realities”, where how would they construct un-realities? I mention this based on your use of “the longer and tighter a warped mind grips their own self importance,” whereby are you implying that someone with self-respect of them self, with confidence that what they believe is correct or right, has a “warped mind”? This may be coming across wrong as I am reading?
Lucifer, we’re informed, had a brilliant mind. But he began to exalt his own mind (53:2:3) In his own mind he conceived his traitorous ideas against God and developed his plans of rebellion as an attempt to short-circuit the plans of the Universal Father by swinging all of Satania over to his theories of “home-rule” and the delusion of self–assertion – his so-called “personal liberty” – completely in opposition to the will of Michael and to the plans of the Universal Father.
Mara, I take some exception to your statement above, more so in its use of various words which may be presented out of context? But, I understand your pretense; although “home-rule”, “self-assertion” and “personal liberty” are really not that far out of line with Michael’s plan, where his is the interpreter of God’s plans, in his universe, and if we can assume that what Jesus taught is what Michael would also present, based on a so called plan, then, I can only assume, that Lucifer pushed the issue, that Michael actualize his last bestowal with do haste? Also, as a side note, if Lucifer was actually as “brilliant” as was mentioned, it would be possible that from my own experience, working with these type of individuals, that often their concepts are not well understood, by lesser minds, which makes for a tendency to become frustrated when not understood by those they believe cannot understand their concepts, based on the reception of said concepts? As an example, in Einstein’s early days, his theories’ were conceived as non-believable or non-true, but as time went on and his theories were extrapolated, sometimes differently, they started to make sense and were proved accurate, by some and not others? Therefore, in some cases something which comes from brilliance cannot be presented without presenting an example or working model where which it can be visualized or experienced differently be others? If we remember that Lucifer also took part, or was aware of two previous failed rebellions, why would he attempt to activate another, unless he had some other information which we are not aware of, or able to understand because we assume it is non-doable, where these other rebellion attempts might indicate that there is or was a problem which others felt were of need of correction? Being that these other rebellion attempts were put down, what makes this rebellion different, that it has lasted so long?
can we really understand how they would perceive reality?
How someone else perceives reality can’t ever be known. However, perceiving reality ourselves is what we’re being tested to do. Failure of perception is ok, because we’re designed to fail. It’s how perception grows.
(160:4.13) But life will become a burden of existence unless you learn how to fail gracefully. There is an art in defeat which noble souls always acquire; you must know how to lose cheerfully; you must be fearless of disappointment. Never hesitate to admit failure. Make no attempt to hide failure under deceptive smiles and beaming optimism. It sounds well always to claim success, but the end results are appalling. Such a technique leads directly to the creation of a world of unreality and to the inevitable crash of ultimate disillusionment.
can we really understand how they would perceive reality?
How someone else perceives reality can’t ever be known. However, perceiving reality ourselves is what we’re being tested to do. Failure of perception is ok, because we’re designed to fail. It’s how perception grows.
(160:4.13) But life will become a burden of existence unless you learn how to fail gracefully. There is an art in defeat which noble souls always acquire; you must know how to lose cheerfully; you must be fearless of disappointment. Never hesitate to admit failure. Make no attempt to hide failure under deceptive smiles and beaming optimism. It sounds well always to claim success, but the end results are appalling. Such a technique leads directly to the creation of a world of unreality and to the inevitable crash of ultimate disillusionment.
VanAmadon: Your presentation of the UB narration above, would be appropriate to your statements, and I concur that “How someone else perceives reality can’t ever be known.” Nevertheless, in my specific quote above, which you used, references “they” which was intended to indicate that we, may not be able to understand how those not present on Urantia, may perceive reality, based on our or personal understanding of reality because of failure to comprehend reality as we perceive it to be.
Nevertheless, it is because of the UB narration which is presented prior to your selection that I can better understand my reality, even as I recognize my failures but through my memories can validate the differences as they appear as reality as it changes.
(1779.4) 160:4.12 Train your memory to hold in sacred trust the strength-giving and worth-while episodes of life, which you can recall at will for your pleasure and edification. Thus build up for yourself and in yourself reserve galleries of beauty, goodness, and artistic grandeur. But the noblest of all memories are the treasured recollections of the great moments of a superb friendship. And all of these memory treasures radiate their most precious and exalting influences under the releasing touch of spiritual worship.
It would seem that many personalities pay attention to detail less than others, and I would suspect that this is do to a lack of memory which can be do to age or being preoccupied in more specific things which are required for living from one day to another, but because my memories are most detailed and extensive, going back to my infancy, makes recollection easier but I must also admit that when I attempt to take memories in different time-line directions, I have difficulty in making synchronous recalls but in only one direction. Being that my memories are visually based – eidetic – I have experienced visual differences of experiences which followed along the same path but with different pictures. This is only relevant to my perception but I’m sure others have had similar experiences.
Although, the UB narration which follows your specific presentation seems to indicate that “failure” as presented is not necessarily defined as one might expect?
(1779.6) 160:4.14 Success may generate courage and promote confidence, but wisdom comes only from the experiences of adjustment to the results of one’s failures. Men who prefer optimistic illusions to reality can never become wise. Only those who face facts and adjust them to ideals can achieve wisdom. Wisdom embraces both the fact and the ideal and therefore saves its devotees from both of those barren extremes of philosophy — the man whose idealism excludes facts and the materialist who is devoid of spiritual outlook. Those timid souls who can only keep up the struggle of life by the aid of continuous false illusions of success are doomed to suffer failure and experience defeat as they ultimately awaken from the dream world of their own imaginations.
(1780.1) 160:4.15 And it is in this business of facing failure and adjusting to defeat that the far-reaching vision of religion exerts its supreme influence. Failure is simply an educational episode — a cultural experiment in the acquirement of wisdom — in the experience of the God-seeking man who has embarked on the eternal adventure of the exploration of a universe. To such men defeat is but a new tool for the achievement of higher levels of universe reality.
(1780.2) 160:4.16 The career of a God-seeking man may prove to be a great success in the light of eternity, even though the whole temporal-life enterprise may appear as an overwhelming failure, provided each life failure yielded the culture of wisdom and spirit achievement. Do not make the mistake of confusing knowledge, culture, and wisdom. They are related in life, but they represent vastly differing spirit values; wisdom ever dominates knowledge and always glorifies culture.
As we attempt to perceive our reality, many failures that seem to be difficult to comprehend as to why did this happen to me or use, can be better comprehended when one asks them self, whether one would change anything in the past that they may have experienced, or failed at, to bring them to this present point in time?
- POPPYCOCK ALERT: Self-importance, or self-admiration, is not the same as self-respect. In fact, self-respect can be way overdone by a “warped mind”.159:3.3 While overmuch self-respect may destroy proper humility and end in pride, conceit, and arrogance, . . .156:5.14 But self–respect is not self-admiration.
(1765.5) 159:3.3 In bringing men into the kingdom, do not lessen or destroy their self-respect. While overmuch self-respect may destroy proper humility and end in pride, conceit, and arrogance, the loss of self-respect often ends in paralysis of the will. It is the purpose of this gospel to restore self-respect to those who have lost it and to restrain it in those who have it. Make not the mistake of only condemning the wrongs in the lives of your pupils; remember also to accord generous recognition for the most praiseworthy things in their lives. Forget not that I will stop at nothing to restore self-respect to those who have lost it, and who really desire to regain it.
(1765.6) 159:3.4 Take care that you do not wound the self-respect of timid and fearful souls. Do not indulge in sarcasm at the expense of my simple-minded brethren. Be not cynical with my fear-ridden children. Idleness is destructive of self-respect; therefore, admonish your brethren ever to keep busy at their chosen tasks, and put forth every effort to secure work for those who find themselves without employment.
(1740.1) 156:5.14 Spiritual living mightily increases true self-respect. But self-respect is not self-admiration. Self-respect is always co-ordinate with the love and service of one’s fellows. It is not possible to respect yourself more than you love your neighbor; the one is the measure of the capacity for the other.
(614.1) 54:1.6 True liberty is the associate of genuine self-respect; false liberty is the consort of self-admiration. True liberty is the fruit of self-control; false liberty, the assumption of self-assertion. Self-control leads to altruistic service; self-admiration tends towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual as is willing to sacrifice righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust power over his fellow beings.
But, I understand your pretense;
You do? Tell me what I am pretending. Tell me where I am not being honest. Tell me where I am making a false impression or a false claim. Tell me where I am being dishonest. Better yet: Show me. Pull out your references in support of your claims and theories about the Lucifer rebellion. The example of comparing Einstein’s theories to the theories of Lucifer is a wrongful comparison. Not even close. Einstein put his mind to work to discover something. Lucifer premeditated and perverted truth by deliberately rebelling against the government of God – the law of God.
48:6:33 Law is life itself and not the rules of its conduct. Evil is a transgression of law, not a violation of the rules of conduct pertaining to life, which is the law. Falsehood is not a matter of narration technique but something premeditated as a perversion of truth. […] The shadow of a hair’s turning, premeditated for an untrue purpose, the slightest twisting or perversion of that which is principle — these constitute falseness.To me the rebellion is not difficult to understand. Are the righteous spiritual mandates and wise natural laws of God confusing?
2:3:2 How futile to make puerile appeals to such a God to modify his changeless decrees so that we can avoid the just consequences of the operation of his wise natural laws and righteous spiritual mandates! “Be not deceived; God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap.” True, even in the justice of reaping the harvest of wrongdoing, this divine justice is always tempered with mercy. Infinite wisdom is the eternal arbiter which determines the proportions of justice and mercy which shall be meted out in any given circumstance. The greatest punishment (in reality an inevitable consequence) for wrongdoing and deliberate rebellion against the government of God is loss of existence as an individual subject of that government. The final result of wholehearted sin is annihilation. In the last analysis, such sin-identified individuals have destroyed themselves by becoming wholly unreal through their embrace of iniquity. The factual disappearance of such a creature is, however, always delayed until the ordained order of justice current in that universe has been fully complied with.- POPPYCOCK ALERT: Michael’s plan for his universe has nothing to do with self-assertion. Self-assertion is egotism. Self-assertion is the promotion of oneself, one’s personal desires at the expense of others. Michael’s plan is for spiritualization of his universe. Spiritualization has to do with progression towards divinity. Divinity is the nature of Deity and comprehended by mortals as truth, beauty and goodness, the manifestations of love, which is about selflessness, the complete opposite of self-assertiveness.
2:3.6 The rule of the Creator Sons in the local universes is one of creation and spiritualization. These Sons devote themselves to the effective execution of the Paradise plan of progressive mortal ascension, to the rehabilitation of rebels and wrong thinkers, but when all such loving efforts are finally and forever rejected, the final decree of dissolution is executed by forces acting under the jurisdiction of the Ancients of Days.
21:5.4 The elevation of a sevenfold bestowal Son to the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe means the beginning of the end of agelong uncertainty and relative confusion. Subsequent to this event, that which cannot be sometime spiritualized will eventually be disorganized; that which cannot be sometime co-ordinated with cosmic reality will eventually be destroyed. When the provisions of endless mercy and nameless patience have been exhausted in an effort to win the loyalty and devotion of the will creatures of the realms, justice and righteousness will prevail. That which mercy cannot rehabilitate justice will eventually annihilate.
(54:3.1) The free will of evolving man or exquisite angel is not a mere philosophic concept, a symbolic ideal. Man’s ability to choose good or evil is a universe reality. This liberty to choose for oneself is an endowment of the Supreme Rulers, and they will not permit any being or group of beings to deprive a single personality in the wide universe of this divinely bestowed liberty
Of sanity, there’s only one type. It is the foundation of strength, and its burdens are light. It’s the most REAL estate, to possess.
Of insanity, there are two types:
– The first type is cruel, deliberate, self-inflicted, the result of extreme shortsightedness, incarnate selfishness, and it always results in the distortion of disillusionment, error forever cast in place and its aim is to take from another, their estate and possession.
– The second type results from the presence in the world of individuals of the first type, who oppress those who are weighed down and burdened with confusion and weakness which triggers dread and the feeling that something or somebody is wanting them to be possessed.I wonder if this might be a source of impatience in the other Sons of the Michael’s creation? They see all these lowly mortal born ascenders travel to Paradise along with their angels and even come back long before others even begin this ultimate (actually only “next”) leg of the adventure?
I think it is due to the failure to see, or more likely the unwillingness to see, the invisible Father in the visible Creator Son. It’s a breakdown in faith. Lucifer thought that the invisible Father didn’t exist and the need for faith in his actual existence was a fraud foisted by the Creator Sons in order to stay in power. Lucifer was power hungry. He wanted to be in control, wield power rather than yield to a higher power. He wanted his whole share of his inheritance to do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted, just like the prodigal son. He wanted to take his toys and isolate himself from the rest of the family so he wouldn’t have to share. What a spoiled brat! Lucifer wanted his own kingdom, and he wanted it NOW! And he wanted to be the boss of it NOW! How immature! He was a big baby, a terrible two, “I want it, I want it NOW, it’s mine, all mine, wa wa wa!” Disgusting. I’m surprised he didn’t cry for his mommy too.
p361:1 32:3.6 The farther down the scale of life we go, the more difficult it becomes to locate, with the eye of faith, the invisible Father. The lower creatures—and sometimes even the higher personalities—find it difficult always to envisage the Universal Father in his Creator Sons. And so, pending the time of their spiritual exaltation, when perfection of development will enable them to see God in person, they grow weary in progression, entertain spiritual doubts, stumble into confusion, and thus isolate themselves from the progressive spiritual aims of their time and universe. In this way they lose the ability to see the Father when beholding the Creator Son. The surest safeguard for the creature throughout the long struggle to attain the Father, during this time when inherent conditions make such attainment impossible, is tenaciously to hold on to the truth-fact of the Father’s presence in his Sons. Literally and figuratively, spiritually and personally, the Father and the Sons are one. It is a fact: He who has seen a Creator Son has seen the Father.
But, I understand your pretense;
You do? Tell me what I am pretending. Tell me where I am not being honest. Tell me where I am making a false impression or a false claim. Tell me where I am being dishonest.
Mara, I don’t mean to speak for MidiChlorian, and I could be wrong, but when I read that phrase in his post, I took it to mean that he was trying to say ‘I understand your premise’ but perhaps autocorrect or some other error caused it to be typed out as ‘pretense’. I noticed that Midi’s post also often has the word “do” when the word is actually ‘due’, so perhaps there are some autocorrect or other issues happening with his posts in terms of the words that show up.
