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Growth part 3

88 posts · 7 participants · started Dec 17, 2016, 9:44 PM

GeneParticipant
Dec 29, 2016, 4:13 PM

Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote:

but it makes me wonder exactly what my brain does control – Especially thinking about Bonitas comment about our functioning organs after brain death and outside the body with mechanical help.

The brain, along with the pituitary gland within the brain, regulates some of the activities of those organs; it is not responsible for their over-control. In life they are automatic as long as the necessary substrates are provided for their electro-chemical health. When the brain dies, organs continue living as long as someone feeds them, which is how we get all our organ donations for transplant. Brain dead people are put on ventilators so the lungs can provide oxygen to the blood, and chemical substrates, which would normally be consumed, are given intravenously in order to keep all the organs alive until they can be harvested. Then, they are placed in a bath of substrate and chilled for transport.

seems I have overcome a roadblock in my thinking about this:

im now thinking that this overcontrol does not discriminate based on organ type. For me this is a very different way to think about all of this, thx.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 29, 2016, 4:21 PM

Gene wrote:

im now thinking that this overcontrol does not discriminate based on organ type.

Also, each organ is made up of billions of specialized cells, each of which is functioning, more or less, on a mechanical level.
GeneParticipant
Dec 29, 2016, 5:02 PM

Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote:

im now thinking that this overcontrol does not discriminate based on organ type.

Also, each organ is made up of billions of specialized cells, each of which is functioning, more or less, on a mechanical level.

and these specialized cells receive overcontrol similar to any single cell organism

maybe even similar to that strand of RNA that flu researchers chase annually.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 29, 2016, 5:42 PM

Gene wrote: . . . and these specialized cells receive overcontrol similar to any single cell organism maybe even similar to that strand of RNA that flu researchers chase annually.

Not exactly. Single cell organisms are more likely to be receive their “over-control” from the Physical Controllers, especially if they are considered plants. Bacteria are vegetable organisms (65:2.3). It’s my opinion that human cells are subject to adjutant mind control, beginning at the lowest level of the first adjutant which also ministers to mechanical mind under the control of the Physical Controllers. The other thing pertinent to this discussion is that mind and life go together. The energy spark of life which comes from the Creative Spirit, “enlivens the body and presages the mind” (36:3.4). I’ve been looking, and so far, I can’t find anything in TUB which says that mind exists without life. I know you can have mind without personality, but I think mind is always living . . . could be wrong . . . still looking.

Some related quotes:

36:5.6 1. The spirit of intuition – quick perception, the primitive physical and inherent reflex instincts, the directional and other self-preservative endowments of all mind creations; the only one of the adjutants to function so largely in the lower orders of animal life and the only one to make extensive functional contact with the nonteachable levels of mechanical mind.

36:6.2 Things material may enjoy an independent existence, but life springs only from life. Mind can be derived only from pre-existent mind.

36:2.18 Mind such as man comprehends is an endowment of the seven adjutant mind-spirits superimposed on the nonteachable or mechanical levels of mind by the agencies of the Infinite Spirit.

36:5.15 Living mind, prior to the appearance of capacity to learn from experience, is the ministry domain of the Master Physical Controllers.

PS: DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO GET RID OF THAT HORRIBLY ANNOYING BLUE HIGHLIGHT ON SEARCH WORDS?
GeneParticipant
Dec 29, 2016, 11:47 PM
More mind stuff

could not help but notice this and hope I see it clearly and can state it ok:

here goes:

cut this from an early post and got to thinking about it as a process.

“The first moral choice of the human child is automatically indicated in the seventh mind- adjutant and registers instantly, by way of the local universe Creative Spirit, over the universal mind-gravity circuit of the Conjoint Actor in the presence of the Master Spirit of superuniverse jurisdiction, who forthwith dispatches this intelligence to Divinington.”

we are told if I remember right that our creative mother is creating life or ministering mind but not both at the same time (I think I got that right)

the bestowal of the spirit of truth comes to mind here because prior to its bestowal acquiring an Adjuster was a slightly different process than described above and appears the mother spirit is not directly involved possibly because she is busy creating new species. and we are also told our mother spirit finished creating new species coincident with the bestowal of the comforter.

I notice that after the bestowal of the comforter the child’s moral choice is registered with the 7th adjutant by way of our creative spirit.

Interesting stuff I never picked up on before.

also, wouldn’t it be interesting to know what her last life form creation was?? Only 2000 years ago???

also I am humbled trying to fully understand and appreciate the significance and impact and meaning of the bestowal of the spirit of truth.
AnonymousInactive
Dec 30, 2016, 12:18 AM

Bonita wrote:

PS: DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO GET RID OF THAT HORRIBLY ANNOYING BLUE HIGHLIGHT ON SEARCH WORDS?

Yes, but you will need to click on the “text” mode prior to submitting your post after copying from the search results. Or go back and edit your post, and switch to the “text mode” and edit out the highlight code as mentioned below. You can submit after editing even while in “text” mode.

77:2.5 [Part III]

These mutant traits appearing in the first Nodite generation resulted from certain changes which had been wrought in the configuration and in the chemical constituents of the inheritance factors of the Andonic germ plasm. These changes were caused by the presence in the bodies of the staff members of the powerful life-maintenance circuits of the Satania system. These life circuits caused the chromosomes of the specialized Urantia pattern to reorganize more after the patterns of the standardized Satania specialization of the ordained Nebadon life manifestation. The technique of this germ plasm metamorphosis by the action of the system life currents is not unlike those procedures whereby Urantia scientists modify the germ plasm of plants and animals by the use of X rays.

The copied text above where I searched on “chromosomes” will produce codes before and behind that search word(s). I have presented the code below, but have replaced “<” with “{” and “>” with “}”, because if I left it as presented in the “text mode” it would also be highlighted.

{span class=”highlight”}chromosomes{/span}

Therefore while in the “text” mode located at the top right of the edit screen, next to “Visual”, you can switch back and forth. But while in the “text” mode you can edit out the starting {span class=”highlight”} and the {/span} ending code, and then switch back to Visual” mode.

This should remove the “highlight” code.
AnonymousInactive
Dec 30, 2016, 1:45 AM

Bonita wrote:

36:6.2 Things material may enjoy an independent existence, but life springs only from life. Mind can be derived only from pre-existent mind.

Bonita presented the UB narration above which kind-of leads into what I wanted to present as an association to this topic where the UB quotes prior to and after the narration posted above seem to point to reproduction and cells also reproduce themselves in the human body, even after the initial creation of the individual prior to birth.

(403.6) 36:6.1 Life is both mechanistic and vitalistic — material and spiritual. Ever will Urantia physicists and chemists progress in their understanding of the protoplasmic forms of vegetable and animal life, but never will they be able to produce living organisms. Life is something different from all energy manifestations; even the material life of physical creatures is not inherent in matter.

(403.7) 36:6.2 Things material may enjoy an independent existence, but life springs only from life. Mind can be derived only from pre-existent mind. Spirit takes origin only from spirit ancestors. The creature may produce the forms of life, but only a creator personality or a creative force can supply the activating living spark.

(404.1) 36:6.3 Life Carriers can organize the material forms, or physical patterns, of living beings, but the Spirit provides the initial spark of life and bestows the endowment of mind. Even the living forms of experimental life which the Life Carriers organize on their Salvington worlds are always devoid of reproductive powers. When the life formulas and the vital patterns are correctly assembled and properly organized, the presence of a Life Carrier is sufficient to initiate life, but all such living organisms are lacking in two essential attributes — mind endowment and reproductive powers. Animal mind and human mind are gifts of the local universe Mother Spirit, functioning through the seven adjutant mind-spirits, while creature ability to reproduce is the specific and personal impartation of the Universe Spirit to the ancestral life plasm inaugurated by the Life Carriers.

(404.2) 36:6.4 When the Life Carriers have designed the patterns of life, after they have organized the energy systems, there must occur an additional phenomenon; the “breath of life” must be imparted to these lifeless forms. The Sons of God can construct the forms of life, but it is the Spirit of God who really contributes the vital spark. And when the life thus imparted is spent, then again the remaining material body becomes dead matter. When the bestowed life is exhausted, the body returns to the bosom of the material universe from which it was borrowed by the Life Carriers to serve as a transient vehicle for that life endowment which they conveyed to such a visible association of energy-matter.

Therefore, it would seem that we need to look at Chromosomes and gamete which are part of the reproductive system where their interaction contain the components of life itself along with birth, and the activation thereof, through the “breath of life”. So, there must be an “energy” force contained in the sperm and egg, which when combined activates the “matter” process, whereby cytogenetics may play an important part.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 30, 2016, 12:37 PM

Gene wrote:

we are told if I remember right that our creative mother is creating life or ministering mind but not both at the same time (I think I got that right)

I don’t think that’s right. If you can provide a quote that supports that, I’d like to see it because I’ve been looking for all quotes that have to do with life and mind. You might be thinking of the restriction against producing new types of creatures placed upon the Master Michaels and their consorts after they gain sovereignty, as explained in 21:6.2.

It’s my understanding (and I confess that I’m not 100% sure on this) that there is no such thing as life without mind involvement on some level, and there’s no such thing as mind without life. Even the most primitive mechanical mind is alive as far as I can tell. Both life and mind come from the same source, and in our universe it is the Creative Spirit of Nebadon who would have to be able to do both at the same time, otherwise there would be life without mind and mind without life, which I don’t see happening. So, if you’ve found evidence to refute my understanding, I need to see it so I can recant everything I just wrote.

Gene wrote: the bestowal of the spirit of truth comes to mind here because prior to its bestowal acquiring an Adjuster was a slightly different process than described above and appears the mother spirit is not directly involved possibly because she is busy creating new species. and we are also told our mother spirit finished creating new species coincident with the bestowal of the comforter.

I’ve read this a few times and I’m still not sure I understand what you’re saying. Yes, I agree that before Pentecost acquiring an Adjuster was not guaranteed, but there’s no difference in the process before or after that event. The mind must be prepared for the coming of the Adjuster by all seven adjutants and the Holy Spirit, who is the supermind presence of the Creative Spirit. That had to happen before Pentecost and after; it also happens regardless of whether or not an Adjuster arrives, and whether or not the Spirit of Truth arrives. Recall that even after Pentecost, the Spirit of Truth does not come to all souls; there are prerequisites. Also, the seven psychic circles have always existed since the first humans, Andon and Fonta and the seventh circle requires the presence of the Holy Spirit, way back then as it does today.

108:2.2-3 The Adjusters cannot invade the mortal mind until it has been duly prepared by the indwelling ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits and encircuited in the Holy Spirit. And it requires the co-ordinate function of all seven adjutants to thus qualify the human mind for the reception of an Adjuster. Thus is the stage of the human mind set for the reception of Adjusters, but as a general rule they do not immediately appear to indwell such minds except on those worlds where the Spirit of Truth is functioning as a spiritual co-ordinator of these different spirit ministries.

110:6.13 The seventh circle. . . . This signifies the united function of the seven adjutant mind-spirits under the direction of the spirit of wisdom, the encircuitment of the mortal creature in the influence of the Holy Spirit, and, on Urantia, the first functioning of the Spirit of Truth, together with the reception of a Thought Adjuster in the mortal mind.

92:0.4 3. The Holy Spirit – this is the initial supermind bestowal, and it unfailingly appears in all bona fide human personalities. This ministry to a worship-craving and wisdom-desiring mind creates the capacity to self-realize the postulate of human survival, both in theologic concept and as an actual and factual personality experience.

103:0.1 All of man’s truly religious reactions are sponsored by the early ministry of the adjutant of worship and are censored by the adjutant of wisdom. Man’s first supermind endowment is that of personality encircuitment in the Holy Spirit of the Universe Creative Spirit; and long before either the bestowals of the divine Sons or the universal bestowal of the Adjusters, this influence functions to enlarge man’s viewpoint of ethics, religion, and spirituality. Subsequent to the bestowals of the Paradise Sons the liberated Spirit of Truth makes mighty contributions to the enlargement of the human capacity to perceive religious truths. As evolution advances on an inhabited world, the Thought Adjusters increasingly participate in the development of the higher types of human religious insight. The Thought Adjuster is the cosmic window through which the finite creature may faith-glimpse the certainties and divinities of limitless Deity, the Universal Father.

34:5.5 Though the Spirit of Truth is poured out upon all flesh, this spirit of the Son is almost wholly limited in function and power by man’s personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of the bestowal Son. The Holy Spirit is partly independent of human attitude and partially conditioned by the decisions and co-operation of the will of man. Nevertheless, the ministry of the Holy Spirit becomes increasingly effective in the sanctification and spiritualization of the inner life of those mortals who the more fully obey the divine leadings.

Gene wrote:

I notice that after the bestowal of the comforter the child’s moral choice is registered with the 7th adjutant by way of our creative spirit.

No, I don’t think so. The Spirit of Truth cannot come unless there is a soul and it’s not possible for him to exist in the soul without the Creative Spirit’s presence. First of all, the soul is not born until the Creative Spirit personally experiences the functioning of the seventh adjutant and then registers that event on Divinington via Master Spirit number seven. At that point, she provides the Holy Spirit as the substrate of the soul. The Spirit of Truth cannot enter the soul without the supermind presence of the Holy Spirit, which is the personality presence of the Creative Spirit. The Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Truth exist together as part of the consciousness of the Creative Spirit.

34:4.6-7 The Creator Son may come and go; his personal presence may be in the local universe or elsewhere; yet the Spirit of Truth functions undisturbed, for this divine presence, while derived from the personality of the Creator Son, is functionally centered in the person of the Divine Minister. The Universe Mother Spirit, however, never leaves the local universe headquarters world. The spirit of the Creator Son may and does function independently of the personal presence of the Son, but not so with her personal spirit. The Holy Spirit of the Divine Minister would become nonfunctional if her personal presence should be removed from Salvington. Her spirit presence seems to be fixed on the universe headquarters world, and it is this very fact that enables the spirit of the Creator Son to function independently of the whereabouts of the Son. The Universe Mother Spirit acts as the universe focus and center of the Spirit of Truth as well as of her own personal influence, the Holy Spirit.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 30, 2016, 12:41 PM

MidiChlorian wrote:

Yes, but you will need to click on the “text” mode prior to submitting your post after copying from the search results.

Great tip. Thanks
GeneParticipant
Dec 31, 2016, 4:10 AM
1. The first couple paragraphs of paper 34 led me to think about this idea that our mother spirit was creating and not necessarily involved with the technique of acquiring Adjuster prior to Pentecost.
WHEN a Creator Son is personalized by the Universal Father and the Eternal Son, then does the Infinite Spirit individualize a new and unique representation of himself to accompany this Creator Son to the realms of space, there to be his companion, first, in physical organization and, later, in creation and ministry to the creatures of the newly projected uni- verse. A Creative Spirit reacts to both physical and spiritual realities; so does a Creator Son; and thus are they co-ordinate and associate in the administration of a local universe of time and space. These Daughter Spirits are of the essence of the Infinite Spirit, but they cannot function in the work of physical creation and spiritual ministry simul- taneously. In physical creation the Universe Son provides the pattern while the Universe Spirit initiates the materialization of physical realities. The Son oper- ates in the power designs, but the Spirit transforms these energy creations into physical substances. Although it is somewhat difficult to portray this early uni- verse presence of the Infinite Spirit as a person, nevertheless, to the Creator Son the Spirit associate is personal and has always functioned as a distinct individual

ill try to find and post the part about the creative spirit ending her creative efforts after Pentecost/ the bestowal of the spirit of truth.

and the last 2 sentence of above qquote leads me to believe that at the same time Jesus was doing his Urania incarnation work he was simultaneously doing power designs that the mother spirit was transforming into living physical substance??
BonitaParticipant
Dec 31, 2016, 11:50 AM
Gene, mind ministry and spiritual ministry are NOT the same thing. Likewise, physical creation is NOT the same as life creation and its evolution.The Creator Son is involved in spiritual ministry, to which the Creative Spirit is responsive, and the reason why they work so well together. The Creative Spirit is first involved in creating physical matter, then she provides life, guided by mind ministry. I believe they’re saying that she can’t provide and minister to life at the same time she’s creating the initial matter in the universe that begets solar systems on which life will be implanted. Obviously, there would be no life there to minister to on physical matter that is just being created. And even then, she does not provide spiritual ministry. That’s the job of the Creator Son. She’s in charge of mind ministry, but because spiritual ministry requires mind, they work as a pair.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 31, 2016, 11:58 AM

Gene wrote:

our mother spirit was creating and not necessarily involved with the technique of acquiring Adjuster prior to Pentecost.

I thought I provided all the quotes in the book which, I think, clearly state that the mind cannot receive an Adjuster without being prepared by the Holy Spirit, who is the “mother spirit” as you call her. Obviously, people had Adjusters before Pentecost. Jesus had an Adjuster. Do you think he didn’t have the “mother spirit” in his soul? If so, why does TUB say that long before Pentecost the Holy Spirit functioned to “enlarge man’s viewpoint of ethics, religion, and spirituality” (103:01). How could that happen if the “mother spirit” was not actively involved in mind ministry. Remember, the Holy Spirit is super adjutant. Why would she provide mind ministry in the form of the adjutants and then suddenly abandon mind ministry when someone was ready to enter the seventh psychic circle and deny them a soul? It makes no sense. You can’t have a soul without the “mother spirit” or Holy Spirit. It’s impossible.
GeneParticipant
Dec 31, 2016, 2:12 PM
Got it

thx
GeneParticipant
Jan 7, 2017, 3:49 PM
Still here:

still uncertain exactly what the human brain actually does and think I found something:

fear

Unreasoned fear is a master intellectual fraud practiced upon the evolving mortal soul. [ [Paper 48:7.4, page 556.4]

cant imagine any mind ministries involved with this.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 7, 2017, 5:02 PM

Gene wrote:

still uncertain exactly what the human brain actually does and think I found something: fear Unreasoned fear is a master intellectual fraud practiced upon the evolving mortal soul. [ [Paper 48:7.4, page 556.4] cant imagine any mind ministries involved with this.

Well, of course the adjutants are involved with fear. Fear is a built-in mechanism of self-preservation. It’s absolutely necessary for evolution, so it’s definitely a mind ministry. What would we be without fear playing a role in our physical, mindal and spiritual evolution. Perhaps a topic dedicated to studying the effect of fear on evolution would be in order?

The quote says that fear is an intellectual fraud practiced upon the evolving soul. What that means is that the human (superanimal) mind uses its self-preserving fear instincts to influence the morontia (superhuman) soul, which is useless. Fear is not necessary for soul-preservation, yet the lower mind is accustomed to relying on it for survival. That’s the fraud. Survival of the soul is based on trust, which is the opposite of fear. That is why, as we make our way through the psychic circles, we wean ourselves off of such frauds. But these frauds were put there for a purpose, they are essential for animal and human life; they’re just not essential to superhuman life, which we are supposed to transfer our identity to.
GeneParticipant
Jan 7, 2017, 6:06 PM
Beautiful explaination

I’m still thinking about that s thread
BonitaParticipant
Jan 8, 2017, 12:05 PM
Thanks Gene. Your quote is also the reason why it is so easy to identify perpetrators of fraud when it comes to so-called “channeling” of celestials. Celestials don’t have a human mind, so when threats and fears are found in their messages, you can be absolutely guaranteed of a human origin. Consider the message from the Thought Adjuster to the reservist. There is nothing fearful or threatening in it at all. It is filled with compassion and devotion. You can boil down that long paragraph into two words: “trust me”.

The soul is very trusting, but few are wholly conscious of their soul and how it thinks. A soul is like a child, trusting and open to truth, eagerly growing and progressing. Fear is retardant to soul growth, whereas it it is an impulse for safety and security when it comes to the material mind. The soul feels safe and secure in the arms of God. The mind feels safe and secure in familiar places with familiar people whom it can keep a firm eye on . . . watch every move with suspicion and doubt. Trust is not a part of human nature; it’s part of the soul’s nature and humans have to learn how to identify with it in order to rise up from their primitive origins.

39:5.7 4. The Spirits of Trust. Suspicion is the inherent reaction of primitive men; the survival struggles of the early ages do not naturally breed trust. Trust is a new human acquisition brought about by the ministry of these planetary seraphim of the Adamic regime. It is their mission to inculcate trust into the minds of evolving men. The Gods are very trustful; the Universal Father is willing freely to trust himself – the Adjuster – to man’s association.
GeneParticipant
Jan 8, 2017, 12:53 PM

Bonita wrote:

Thanks Gene. Your quote is also the reason why it is so easy to identify perpetrators of fraud when it comes to so-called “channeling” of celestials. Celestials don’t have a human mind, so when threats and fears are found in their messages, you can be absolutely guaranteed of a human origin. Consider the message from the Thought Adjuster to the reservist. There is nothing fearful or threatening in it at all. It is filled with compassion and devotion. You can boil down that long paragraph into two words: “trust me”. The soul is very trusting, but few are wholly conscious of their soul and how it thinks. A soul is like a child, trusting and open to truth, eagerly growing and progressing. Fear is retardant to soul growth, whereas it it is an impulse for safety and security when it comes to the material mind. The soul feels safe and secure in the arms of God. The mind feels safe and secure in familiar places with familiar people whom it can keep a firm eye on . . . watch every move with suspicion and doubt. Trust is not a part of human nature; it’s part of the soul’s nature and humans have to learn how to identify with it in order to rise up from their primitive origins.

39:5.7 4. The Spirits of Trust. Suspicion is the inherent reaction of primitive men; the survival struggles of the early ages do not naturally breed trust. Trust is a new human acquisition brought about by the ministry of these planetary seraphim of the Adamic regime. It is their mission to inculcate trust into the minds of evolving men. The Gods are very trustful; the Universal Father is willing freely to trust himself – the Adjuster – to man’s association.

i might have referred to this as the “reality response” described in paper 16 as a personality association of the cosmic mind, or possession of innate recognition-realization of energy reality, mind reality, and spirit reality.

This trust idea and seraphim seems part of the concept except that the cosmic mind ministry predates the Adamic mission.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 8, 2017, 2:49 PM

Gene wrote:

i might have referred to this as the “reality response” described in paper 16 as a personality association of the cosmic mind, or possession of innate recognition-realization of energy reality, mind reality, and spirit reality. This trust idea and seraphim seems part of the concept except that the cosmic mind ministry predates the Adamic mission.

The cosmic mind reality response has nothing to do with angels. It is a built-in, innate, automatic reflex response present at all levels of mind from the adjutants up to the Infinite Spirit. The response which recognizes and validates reality is essentially mind-gravity. Cosmic mind is not a specialized form of mind, it is the totality of mind in our superuniverse, its source being the seventh Master Spirit, who is in charge of a particular sub-absolute type of the absolute mind of the Third Source and Center. The cosmic mind we have in Orvonton is not the same “flavor” of cosmic mind in other superuniverses . . . hence God the Sevenfold . . . yet responsive to the same mind-gravity.

16:6.4 This reality sensitivity of the cosmic mind responds to certain phases of reality just as energy-material responds to gravity. It would be still more correct to say that these supermaterial realities so respond to the mind of the cosmos.

16:6.1 The Master Spirits are the sevenfold source of the cosmic mind, the intellectual potential of the grand universe. This cosmic mind is a subabsolute manifestation of the mind of the Third Source and Center and, in certain ways, is functionally related to the mind of the evolving Supreme Being.
BonitaParticipant
Jan 8, 2017, 3:03 PM
I might also point out that trust on its own is not reality. It only becomes a reality when it is experienced as a reality. In other words, trust is just an idea until it becomes an actual part of one’s experience. That’s when the reality recognition response kicks in on the third level, which is the worship level (16:6.8). This level requires insight in conjunction with the Adjuster (and other Spirit influences in the soul).

It’s my guess that the angels of trust inculcate the idea in the minds of men by manipulating environmental stimuli. It is then up to the minds of men to discover, recognize, interpret and choose such an idea, give it meaning, make it an ideal, then act on it, making it an actual value worth carrying into eternity as part of personal experience.

The cosmic mind reflex on the level of causation may recognize the reality of the intellectual idea of trust; the cosmic mind reflex on the level of duty may recognize the reality of the meaning of trust and wisdom of embracing the ideal; the cosmic mind reflex on the level of worship may recognize the reality of the ideal and with the help of Spirit teachers within, figure out how to utilize it, make its potential an actual, and hence an experience which is a personal reality and a contribution to the Supreme.

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