Preview: a read-only copy of the forum. To post or reply, use the current forum.

Growth part 3

88 posts · 7 participants · started Dec 17, 2016, 9:44 PM

GeneParticipant
Dec 17, 2016, 9:44 PM
Ok, here goes:

when we enter that 7th psychic circle it appears that simultaneous with this, other spiritual influences become available or bestowed.

this takes me to paper 34 on the local universe mother and the last paragraph in part 5 34:5.7 summarizes: The presence of the Holy Spirit of the Universe Daughter of the Infinite Spirit, of the Spirit of Truth of the Universe Son of the Eternal Son, and of the Adjuster-spirit of the Paradise Father in or with an evolutionary mortal, denotes symmetry of spiritual endowment and ministry and qualifies such a mortal con- sciously to realize the faith-fact of sonship with God. It appears the worship adjutant is coordinating this and deeply involved with our personalities.

it all seems to happen with that first moral decision. Heck of a load for a 6 year old eh?

these are the influences that will grow us if we create favorable conditions.

this opens lots of stuff to talk about.

the very next paragraph in 34:6 As mortals progress in mind control and spirit per- ception, these multiple spirit ministries become more and more co-ordinate in function; they become increasingly blended with the overministry of the Para- dise Trinity

and now I can skip around without direction to stuff like: the three cosmic intuitions or paper 16:6 about the cosmic mind that provides us a wonderful check on reality – the reality response.

another key word in the quote is “symmetry ” lots and to discuss about that.

well this is my attempt to start a conversation on growth and mind. It is an enormous subject in the book that covers much ground and many beings.

please feel free to help me out here.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 17, 2016, 10:47 PM
Gene wrote: please feel free to help me out here.

Will do, but I have places to go and things to do. Here’s what I wrote about the seventh psychic circle in my treatise on the Holy Spirit.

The trigger for the arrival of the Holy Spirit in the human mind is the appearance of the craving for worship and the desire for wisdom (the two highest adjutant mind spirits). This indicates that the personality has attained the ability to evolve an eternal soul and the universe responds with assistance from the Father, Son and Spirit. At this point, a personality enters the seventh psychic circle and begins an ascension career as an individual. Prior to entering the seventh psychic circle the personality of a child is spiritually attached to its parents.

Urantia, having been the home of our Sovereign Creator Son’s final bestowal, has the privilege of his personal ministry as the Spirit of Truth. Therefore, all Urantians receive the capacity to recognize this Spirit upon entering the seventh psychic circle. In addition, those entering the seventh psychic circle are blessed to receive a fragment from the Universal Father himself, the Thought Adjuster.

Just as the joint ministry of all seven of the adjutant mind spirits are required in order for the Holy Spirit to function within the mind, so too is the presence of the Holy Spirit required in order for the Spirit of Truth and Thought Adjuster to function. One might wonder why this is so. The Holy Spirit is a supermind endowment which expands and improves the capacity of mind to recognize spirit beyond the level of the adjutants through a more personal coordination and unification of mind ministries. And, while the Holy Spirit is a coordinator of mind ministries, the Spirit of Truth is a coordinator of spirit ministries (108:2.3). Together they enhance the success of the Thought Adjuster in the growth of the potentially eternal soul. (Reproductions only upon request.)
GeneParticipant
Dec 17, 2016, 11:03 PM
Request
GeneParticipant
Dec 17, 2016, 11:10 PM
Nicely stated and may be a lead in for me to part four of this growth thing:

if I had a talent for comprehensive research and presenting related treatise on this enormous (to me anyway) subject at a post doctorate level, of what value would it be?

it really comes down to our every day choices and decisions choosing not only good over evil but the absolute best of all possible good choices and acting on it.

Doing, as opposed to thinking Gods will.
GeneParticipant
Dec 17, 2016, 11:14 PM
More research needed but we are told that this process of growth being talked about is not entirely intellectual, likely because our individual personalities are steering the ship.

possibly this is a better part 4.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 18, 2016, 2:55 PM

Gene wrote:

Doing, as opposed to thinking Gods will.

Nah, it’s both. Remember it’s our thoughts that lead us Godward,(101:1.3). First you have to think about what is best and then you do it. Otherwise, we’d be machines that keep doing things until they hit on the right option by dumb luck.

Gene wrote:

we are told that this process of growth being talked about is not entirely intellectual,

Right. Growth requires all the parts of the self to act in a unified manner according to the decisions of the personality guided by Spirit. The direction is supposed to be Spiritward. If growth was totally intellectual, then there would only be need for mind. There would be no need for body, spirit, soul or personality. Mind alone would progress, and although that would make for great science fiction, it’s not how it works. Mind all by itself does not have the power of choice. That power belongs to personality, end of story.
George ParkParticipant
Dec 19, 2016, 5:24 PM

Gene wrote:

we are told that this process of growth being talked about is not entirely intellectual

This is so right, it seems to me. Most of us have a decent idea of what intellectual growth entails. We acquire new and refined religious knowledge about God from a sincere study of the Book. But this intellectual growth in understanding the nature of God is not necessarily related to spiritual growth – the evolution of the soul.

Man’s realization of the reality of the worship experience is chiefly determined by the developmental status of his evolving immortal soul. The spiritual growth of the soul takes place wholly independently of the intellectual self-consciousness. (5:3.7)

The soul may stagnate even while religious knowledge continues to increase, because intellectual growth and spiritual growth are two entirely separate but related dimensions of personal experience. Progress in one dimension does not necessarily lead to progress in the other. The difference between these two experiential dimensions is not always obvious in the heat of the moment. However, there is a fairly clear difference in the types of personal effort required for growth in these two dimensions. The labor of willing study and contemplation is required to bring forth the intellectual fruits of knowledge; intellectual growth does not come without effort. Spiritual growth is no different in this respect. We must be willing to labor in the spiritual dimension in order to bring forth the fruits of the spirit.

No human being will ever be spiritualized by a divine Monitor against his will; survival is a gift of the Gods which must be desired by the creatures of time. (110:2.2)

We are told and may choose to believe that the insight of faith is freely given by the grace of God. Faith is the inspiration for spiritual growth.

There is but one struggle for those who enter the kingdom, and that is to fight the good fight of faith. The believer has only one battle, and that is against doubt—unbelief. (159:3.8)

The “good fight of faith” is fought in the spiritual realms of worship and prayer, and this fight is a labor of faith. The tender faith of the soul must constantly struggle against the powerful doubts produced by the naturally suspicious material intellect. The farseeing wisdom of spiritual realities must ever contend with the material wisdom of the world. Undying spiritual hope must continually fight against the despair provoked by the hard and cruel things of this world.

It seems to me that it is in this “good fight of faith” that the difference between the intellectual and spiritual dimensions of experience and growth are most clearly revealed. The intellect grows its ideas about the probable nature of God. The soul grows in its spiritual attitudes toward the true nature of God. Progress through the psychic circles apparently depends upon a certain balance and association between intellectual and spiritual growth.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 21, 2016, 5:07 PM

Gene wrote:

well this is my attempt to start a conversation on growth and mind. It is an enormous subject in the book that covers much ground and many beings.

I’m wondering if you’ve lost interest in this Gene, or have other pressing issues to attend. I’ve been writing tons of essays on this subject for so long, I don’t know which one would interest you the most, so until you let me know, I’ll just post what I think is relative to the discussion.

I’ve been writing a book on the soul for years. It’s a work in progress and still needs considerable editing; but despite that, I’ll share some of it. Please don’t copy or reproduce it, but do make comments or corrections on this forum, as you see fit. Here are a few paragraphs to start:

Spiritual growth is multifaceted. Don’t forget that the soul has two parents, the material mind and the spiritual Adjuster, the offspring of that union being a morontial entity that exists in its own right (0:5.10). Once the soul comes into existence, it begins to grow in and of itself (117:3.6). I find that fact amazing. What I take from it is that the soul itself has self-preservation instincts of some kind, so leaving the soul out of a discussion on spiritual growth is really not possible. To get a grasp of the whole gamut of the growth process, I think it wise to put the morontia soul at the very center of it. The material level of existence is on one side, the spiritual level on the other, yet all overlapping with one another and connected by mind ministry (12:8.13).

Humans, during their material life in the flesh, do not function on either the spiritual or morontia level; however, mind ministry overlaps all three levels: material, morontial and spiritual (16:9.1). Our material minds are designed to function on the material level while at the same time, because of mind ministry, capable of experiencing consciousness of both material and supermaterial levels. This is why we are called dual-natured beings (34:6.9; 196:3.6).

We have capacity for both material intellect and supermaterial intellect. Growth is part of the process of expanding consciousness of both of these levels of intellect. We expand consciousness of the material level primarily by reason and wisdom (16:6.10), but expansion of consciousness of the supermaterial level requires superintellect, also known as the supermind of the soul, the Holy Spirit (92:0.4). This level of consciousness is accessed through insight (16:6.8) and expanded by prayer, prayer being defined as a desire for intercourse with supermaterial reality its Source (144:4.9).
BonitaParticipant
Dec 22, 2016, 11:47 AM
So, I’m guessing this thread is dead. I’ll just finish what I started above and then let the funeral begin. Again, please no reproductions without consent. I’m hoping to publish at some time.

We’re told that the greatest adventure in the flesh is to expand our consciousness to the soul level and eventually the spiritual level which borders it (196:3.34). But does spiritual growth result from expanding consciousness alone? I think it is much more dynamic than that, otherwise naval gazing would be the answer to all our problems. Firstly, the best way to expand consciousness is prayer (143:7.4) and the stimulus for prayer often comes from angels who do their best to expose us to life situations rife with opportunities for growth (113:4.4). This stimulus comes from the material level of our lives. Problem solving results when we search all levels of consciousness for answers. We are told that prayer is capable of accessing both the subconscious and superconscious levels of mind for solutions to problems (91:3.5). Practical solutions come from material levels while moral solutions require higher levels of thought.

Higher levels of thought are approached in a very specific way. The highest levels of thought are at the superconscious level of the Adjuster. TUB explains that this level of thought is an adventure, not something that should be taken lightly and without some perils, yet we are urged to attempt it. Because the attempt involves another presence within the inner world, we are told that the best approach is called enlightened prayer, which is the alter-ego approach as young children are wont to do ( 91:3.1-7). As the soul grows, the experience of enlightened prayer is transformed from the human-like alter ego to the Divine alter ego. We know that our capacity and ability to recognize Divinity expands as the soul grows, and this is the process of circle progress.

We begin life being taught by the lower five adjutants until the sixth makes contact due to a desire for Deity, called the spiritual response (36:5.15). Once wisdom directs the mind to recognize divinity and the personality chooses to act upon that recognition, the mind is instantly invaded (extreme word, I know) by higher spiritual presences (110:6.13). These are not the nonpersonal forces or spirit adjutant circuits the personality has been raised on. These spirits provide a personal presence within the higher mind, a relatable focus of Deity and Divinity (34:5.4).

Personality has a built in ability to recognize other personalities (16:8.6; 16:9.7). The spirits resident in the mind of a seventh circler are distinctly personal and divinly intimate with the soul. Barring any deviant resistance, personality naturally partakes of a relationship with other personalities, particularly within its own inner world. Recognition of this “other-than-self” within one’s mind is the beginning of the relationship which has all the potential to propel the personality toward divinity attainment and self-realization (making the self more real). Reality recognition is a level of consciousness (0:2.2; 16:9.1; 195:7.12). On the supermaterial level, it is an awareness or feeling of presence within, a higher level of God-consciousness, of which there are three: material, morontial and spiritual (5:5.11). This expansion of awareness begins in the seventh circle and progresses to God-knowingness and finally the consummation of God-attunement.

Progress in the psychic circles results in a gradual emergence of the morontia soul until a time when the material mind begins to recognize its existence as an adjunct to its own consciousness (111:3.4). This expansion of consciousness is called soul-consciousness. It does mean that the material mind is fully aware of the morontia level, but having discovered its existence, it now recognizes it and begins to endeavor to work with it with increasing desire. This is accomplished through faith-insight, also known as spiritual intuition (101:3.2)

Faith insight results in discovery of new meanings for values. Recognition of the worth of pursuing a given value (truth, beauty and goodness) and searching for a way to interpret the value within one’s life circumstances requires effort which is mostly desire. I am defining desire as a mental attitude of truthseeking. Truthseeking occurs on three levels of reality, and this is where the cosmic mind reality reflexes come in play. The third level of worship is the highest insight of the cosmic mind (16:6.8), it means; God consciousness; “mind of the spirit”; moral evaluation with a religious meaning; recognition of moral values; the discernment of spiritual meanings; the ability to see God by faith; that faculty of human personality which accrues as a consequence of the presence of the God-revealing Thought Adjuster in the God-hungry mortal mind (6:6.4;16:7.8;91:7.12;101:1.5) It is a gift (101:4.2).
Nigel NunnParticipant
Dec 22, 2016, 7:44 PM
Bonita wrote:

“… requires effort which is mostly desire.”

From a baby-sitter’s view, we humans might almost be defined as bundles of curiosity and desire. So isn’t it neat that curiosity and desire are the leavers actually designed and embedded for moving us along?

Bonita, looking forward to the book

Nigel
GeneParticipant
Dec 23, 2016, 6:17 AM
Hey Bonita, sorry about my absence, but no way I have lost interest in this thread.

You mentioned two times about that desire for deity, that spirit response that brings on entrance to the 7 the psychic circle – that is so curious. Maybe this happens just prior to that first moral decision that ushers in our Adjuster? All at such a very young age and I do not believe that any of us has memory of the event. I don’t recall my first cravings for deity.

Also “recognizing other personalities” you got into in above post- brings to mind that concept that is what revelation and s all about – the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. I have it in my mind that spiritual growth cannot be separated from this. I believe that soul growth can be recognizable when we realize that we have actually contributed to the brotherhood of man. It must be part of our growth.

got to think more about that idea of soul growing all by itself after getting started.
GeneParticipant
Dec 23, 2016, 6:20 AM
I installed upgrade and have had nothing but problems. Lost passwords, lost functions like copy paste and much more-being computer illiterate don’t help.

part of reason for absence, so sorry.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 23, 2016, 1:01 PM

Gene wrote:

I do not believe that any of us has memory of the event. I don’t recall my first cravings for deity.

Well, I don’t know the exact first time, but I do have a distinct memory of craving deity. My parents and I moved into a house just before my first birthday and left just before my sixth birthday. I have distinct memories from living at that house. The earliest was a little golden book called The Story of Jesus. It had intriguing pictures that made me fall in love with Jesus, he seemed so kind and loving. My parents read it to me because I insisted and they told me I had learned to read it myself sometime in my third year. There were other Bible story books as well that I also cherished, but the Jesus book was the best. I distinctly remembering a fierce desire to meet Jesus, I wanted him in the worst way. He was more important to me than my own father, heck, even Santa. And incidentally, my parents were not religious; they never went to church. These books were gifts from other people.

It was also in that house, sometime before we left, that I have a vivid memory of realizing that I was not alone in my mind. The specific memory centered around a strong desire to be alone with whatever this was. I climbed onto a ledge in my bedroom closet and sat by myself looking out the window into the treetops sharing the moment with this inner feeling. I now know it was the budding of my alter-ego, but was it also the budding of a relationship with deity? Looking back, I think it was, but of course I cannot know for sure. It’s just a supposition, but it is a powerful memory even today.

Again at the age of eight, I suddenly became aware that this inner friend was alive and able to see the world through my eyes and share it with me. It was extremely comforting. But then again, I was going through troubling times with a sick and crazy mother. So . . . it could have all been my imagination. But why would I have the same inner feelings now into my golden years if it were a just a child’s dream? I tend to think something about it was and is very real since the feeling is still there. I don’t think I’m delusional (but then again, crazy people never do).
BonitaParticipant
Dec 23, 2016, 1:04 PM

Gene wrote:

I installed upgrade and have had nothing but problems. Lost passwords, lost functions like copy paste and much more-being computer illiterate don’t help.

Well . . . you’re not alone. My computer’s been yelling at me for a week to install a system upgrade but I’ve been putting it off until I can figure out how to back everything up. I’m afraid the same will happen to me, so I procrastinate . . .

Good luck with it. Time to call the grandkids who can do that stuff in their sleep.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 23, 2016, 3:50 PM

Nigel Nunn wrote: From a baby-sitter’s view, we humans might almost be defined as bundles of curiosity and desire. So isn’t it neat that curiosity and desire are the leavers actually designed and embedded for moving us along?

Interesting point Nigel. I have to give it a bit more study, but I’m under the impression that curiosity is mostly tied up with growth involving the first cosmic insight of causality. Although I admit, the word does have a rather broad meaning. When it comes to duty and worship I think there are better words to describe the urge for growth. Are philosophers curious about morality or desirous for moral solutions? Are religionists curious about the indwelling Adjuster or desirous of his presence? I don’t know, maybe it’s a mixture of both. They say that scientific curiosity, moral intuition and spiritual insight are inalienables of human nature (16:7.1). Are moral intuition and spiritual insight forms of curiosity? Maybe in a broad sense. We definitely have a natural desire for these inalienables though, thanks to mind ministry.
GeneParticipant
Dec 23, 2016, 3:55 PM

Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote:

I do not believe that any of us has memory of the event. I don’t recall my first cravings for deity.

Well, I don’t know the exact first time, but I do have a distinct memory of craving deity. My parents and I moved into a house just before my first birthday and left just before my sixth birthday. I have distinct memories from living at that house. The earliest was a little golden book called The Story of Jesus. It had intriguing pictures that made me fall in love with Jesus, he seemed so kind and loving. My parents read it to me because I insisted and they told me I had learned to read it myself sometime in my third year. There were other Bible story books as well that I also cherished, but the Jesus book was the best. I distinctly remembering a fierce desire to meet Jesus, I wanted him in the worst way. He was more important to me than my own father, heck, even Santa. And incidentally, my parents were not religious; they never went to church. These books were gifts from other people. It was also in that house, sometime before we left, that I have a vivid memory of realizing that I was not alone in my mind. The specific memory centered around a strong desire to be alone with whatever this was. I climbed onto a ledge in my bedroom closet and sat by myself looking out the window into the treetops sharing the moment with this inner feeling. I now know it was the budding of my alter-ego, but was it also the budding of a relationship with deity? Looking back, I think it was, but of course I cannot know for sure. It’s just a supposition, but it is a powerful memory even today. Again at the age of eight, I suddenly became aware that this inner friend was alive and able to see the world through my eyes and share it with me. It was extremely comforting. But then again, I was going through troubling times with a sick and crazy mother. So . . . it could have all been my imagination. But why would I have the same inner feelings now into my golden years if it were a just a child’s dream? I tend to think something about it was and is very real since the feeling is still there. I don’t think I’m delusional (but then again, crazy people never do).

thx for sharing, what a beautiful memory.

i would call it deity craving and be good with it

my mom was a devout Mormon and brought me into the church at birth according to her journal. Baptism at 7 meant more to everyone else but me sorry to say. All I remember is hating it but complying because I had no choice. Deity craving happened in Southeast Asia at 18. At least it happened.
BonitaParticipant
Dec 23, 2016, 3:59 PM

Gene wrote: I have it in my mind that spiritual growth cannot be separated from this. I believe that soul growth can be recognizable when we realize that we have actually contributed to the brotherhood of man. It must be part of our growth.

I think you nailed it when you say spiritual growth cannot be separated from the concept of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. I don’t think we actually have to consciously realize our contribution however. True growth is unconscious, right?
BonitaParticipant
Dec 23, 2016, 4:00 PM

Gene wrote: At least it happened.

Right on!
GeneParticipant
Dec 23, 2016, 5:05 PM
Bonita wrote:

Gene wrote: I have it in my mind that spiritual growth cannot be separated from this. I believe that soul growth can be recognizable when we realize that we have actually contributed to the brotherhood of man. It must be part of our growth.

I think you nailed it when you say spiritual growth cannot be separated from the concept of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. I don’t think we actually have to consciously realize our contribution however. True growth is unconscious, right?

well this is what we are told. But we can recognize the presence of the soul. That is not unconscious. If we at least realize that our personality is cooperating with the spirit influences mentioned, we can at least assume we can recognize the soul above and beyond just simply static existence ??

When we do something completely unselfish for someone with zero expectation of anything in return there is a very unique feeling of satisfaction that only happens when this happens. I’ll call it soul growth recognition
BonitaParticipant
Dec 23, 2016, 6:24 PM

Gene wrote: But we can recognize the presence of the soul.

Yes, but that’s because there is someone living there other than yourself. What you recognize is presence. Soul consciousness is a consciousness of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Truth who live there, as well as a marginal conscious of the Adjuster presence who is associated with it. This sense of presence grows as the soul grows as does consciousness of a relationship with the Supreme. Soul growth increases the consciousness of Deity presence.

102:4.3 Man very early becomes conscious that he is not alone in the world or the universe. There develops a natural spontaneous self-consciousness of other-mindness in the environment of selfhood. Faith translates this natural experience into religion, the recognition of God as the reality — source, nature, and destiny — of other-mindness. But such a knowledge of God is ever and always a reality of personal experience. If God were not a personality, he could not become a living part of the real religious experience of a human personality.

Other related quotes: 0:6.8; 8:5.4; 9:2.5; 76:5.2; 117:6.5; 117:6.27; 110:6.16; 194:2.4

Gene wrote: If we at least realize that our personality is cooperating with the spirit influences mentioned, we can at least assume we can recognize the soul above and beyond just simply static existence ??

Are you aware of cooperating with the spirit within you? I’m not always sure myself. I am very aware and sure of the presence of God within me. I am also aware of a constant desire to cooperate and deep hunger for succeeding in cooperating so I keep up a constant conversation with the Spirit presence within me. (By conversation I’m not suggesting that we’re actually talking words back and forth. I am not getting messages!) But despite that, I really don’t know with certainty that I am cooperating or just trying to cooperate. I know that my life is a happy one and I feel at peace with everything. So, what I am conscious of is striving to be Godlike. And that’s all I expect to be conscious of besides a friendly presence working on the same goal.

I do believe that we often don’t know what is Godlike (God’s will), but our attempts at discovering it gets translated by the Spirit of Truth for us and he presents it to the Father on our behalf. So, any transformations made by the Spirit of Truth on my behalf may not be 100% conscious to my material mind. I think these are the little gems of wholehearted and fully conscious desire that get registered in the soul (supermind) and then worked on while we sleep, as in this quote:

110:5.3 During the slumber season the Adjuster attempts to achieve only that which the will of the indwelt personality has previously fully approved by the decisions and choosings which were made during times of fully wakeful consciousness, and which have thereby become lodged in the realms of the supermind, the liaison domain of human and divine interrelationship.

Whether or not we recognize these spiritualized thoughts after the Adjuster works on them is another issue. Not all of them make their way into full conscious, but lie in wait for the opportune time for fruition. At least that’s how I understand it, and I can see it working this way in my life. I really don’t immediately know God’s way for everything in my life, but I know that if I keep the effort up (discovery, recognition, interpretation and choice), I will get closer and closer, which is all I think I can hope for. Trying to make measurements and assessments along the way I think is useless. At least it has never been useful to me.

Reply on the current forum