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Entropy – who says!

77 posts · 7 participants · started Sep 27, 2014, 3:05 PM

emanny3003Blocked
Nov 13, 2014, 12:21 AM
Hi Bonita,

Bonita wrote:

Are you telling me that the space within my cells is the same space I was born with?

No, of course not. There is not a molecule in your body that was there when you were born. When TUB states that space is a property of matter, that is a proprietary relationship. Decay is a continuous process in space-time creations and that alone would interfere with this relationship between matter and space. Disintegration is a final divorce and the assets are divided and transferred.

Bonita wrote:

Furthermore, Havona is not absolute; it is subabsolute, or absonite. So why wouldn’t it also be filled with non-absolute space?

I agree with a qualification. Even though I understand your point about the absonite, you have convinced me that non-absolute space is the space that the spheres of Havona move through, but I question whether Triata materialization acually contain space as a property. Just a hunch.

Bonita wrote:

Yet nowhere does it say that the Havona day-year is fixed, at least I can’t find anything to support that claim. Time cannot be fixed, it is always relative. Havona time is relative to Paradise, which is motionless, or fixed.

You are tenacious and you have convinced me on this also. Though they do tell us indirectly that the Havona spheres do not rotate, only revolve, bases on the Day-year being one and the same.

emanny3003 wrote:

You’ve based your assumption concerning the volume of space upon something that cannot exist – fixed time. You’ve also linked growth and decay to space volume, something that I find no evidence of being factual. The total volume of space is finite. When one area expands another area contracts but it does not necessarily affect density. Density is a dimensionless ratio. When space expands and contracts it does not change the ratio. Therefore, expansion does not equal growth and contraction does not equal decay of matter. I don’t know where you get that idea from. Do you think that space is squeezed out of matter during the contraction phase of space respiration? I’m not following that. I’m quite sure that the same amount of space will be within any given piece of matter regardless of space respiration.
As I said, I believe that space can move through matter since it is unresponsive to gravity. I do not think that the movement of space changes the ratios between space and mass making up any individual body. If those ratios changed with space respiration wouldn’t each of us be expanding right now along with space?

I never thought time was fixed and I did not think through the orbit of Havona spheres. However, density is mass/volume. Although the totality of space is finite, being pervaded plus unpervaded space, but pervaded space has matter-energies and forces not present in unpervaded space. Therefore, pervaded space does experience changes in density. Expansion is associated with decay and contraction with growth. During contraction there is increasing density due to the same matter-enregy per unit volume. I am specking about the matter content of space, not the space content of matter. The fact that the ultimaton (matter) has Paradise as its nucleus, tells me that the smallest unit of measurable energy also has respiration of its proprietary space.

(1155.4)105:2.11 7. The Universal One of Infinity. I AM as I AM. This is the stasis or self-relationship of Infinity, the eternal fact of infinity-reality and the universal truth of reality-infinity. In so far as this relationship is discernible as personality, it is revealed to the universes in the divine Father of all personality — even of absolute personality. In so far as this relationship is impersonally expressible, it is contacted by the universe as the absolute coherence of pure energy and of pure spirit in the presence of the Universal Father. In so far as this relationship is conceivable as an absolute, it is revealed in the primacy of the First Source and Center; in him we all live and move and have our being, from the creatures of space to the citizens of Paradise; and this is just as true of the master universe as of the infinitesimal ultimaton, just as true of what is to be as of that which is and of what has been.

Bonita wrote:

So you love your son despite the fact that he is an anesthesiologist, huh? I generally did not have differences with the species surgeon.

Actually, most of my close friends were anesthesiologists. I’ll be the first to admit that too many fellow surgeons were anal sphincters. I am pleased my son chose anesthesiology. He gets to sit down and save his dogs.
emanny3003Blocked
Nov 13, 2014, 3:14 AM

Bonita wrote:

Yet nowhere does it say that the Havona day-year is fixed, at least I can’t find anything to support that claim. Time cannot be fixed, it is always relative. Havona time is relative to Paradise, which is motionless, or fixed.

I have changed my thinking in the two hours since my last post. Time is relative but that can only be said of space-time creations that undergo space respirations. The orbits of the earth and moon are not fixed. The moon is moving away presently in its orbit around the earth and will eventually move closer to the point of tidal disruption. At that time the earth will become a ringed planet. Every orbit must do the same in space-time, expand and contract.

However, Havona is not a time creation. The Havona circuits move in space but do not change in time. Havona time cannot be relative to Paradise because because Paradise is timeless. Eternity is the absolute of time, Havona transcends time.

Bonita wrote:

Although they recognize that the length of time for the inner Havona circuit to complete one revolution around Paradise is just seven minutes, three and 1/8th seconds less that 1000 years of our time, they do not say that this is a fixed time. It is merely a statement of what that time represented when the text was written.

You almost had me convinced of this but if this were true then you must assume that the Havona day-year is fluctuating as the orbit of the moon is doing. I don’t have a direct quote about this Havona year being constant, but they do not say that it is not. They give a specific time period as it relates to the changing orbit of Urantia to a fraction of a second. Does that not seem odd if it were not a clue of some sort?

Bonita wrote:

When one area expands another area contracts but it does not necessarily affect density. Density is a dimensionless ratio. When space expands and contracts it does not change the ratio. Therefore, expansion does not equal growth and contraction does not equal decay of matter. I don’t know where you get that idea from.

41:4.2 Gaseous, liquid, and solid states are matters of atomic-molecular relationships, but density is a relationship of space and mass. Density varies directly with the quantity of mass in space and inversely with the amount of space in mass, the space between the central cores of matter and the particles which whirl around these centers as well as the space within such material particles.

This is where I get the idea regarding density. I never said that expansion equals growth and contract decay. I said the exact opposite. This is called entropy and enthalpy by science. These are well observed and data confirmed realities of nature. The dimensions of density are Kg/meters^3. In expanding space, the denominator is increasing and density decreases. In contracting space the reverse is true. But take note in the above quote where they make a distinction between mass in space and space in mass.

I do not think that Havona experiences density changes. This is because it does not experience decay. Decay is a result of decreasing density. If there is no increase in mass in Havona because it is a completed eternal creation then the amount of space in Havona must also not increase. This is the only way density in Havona will not vary and, therefore, decay is not possible.

You have made me think in depth on this Bonita and I am thankful. But I have dug in my heals on this one and still think that Havona is excluded from space respirations. Let me know if you dig up any more. I’ll keep looking for anything that will refute my theories. I have no problems changing my mind when confronted with expanding truth.
BonitaParticipant
Nov 16, 2014, 3:21 PM

emanny3003 wrote:

But I have dug in my heals on this one and still think that Havona is excluded from space respirations.

Okeydokey then. I wholeheartedly disagree though. If Havona is excluded from space respirations, then it means that Havona has NO space since ALL space respires . . . so the authors claim, that is. And who am I to argue with celestials? But it has indeed been an interesting discussion, so thanks for persevering.

11:6.1 We do not know the actual mechanism of space respiration; we merely observe that all space alternately contracts and expands.
nelsongParticipant
Nov 16, 2014, 9:51 PM
When one area expands another area contracts but it does not necessarily affect density. Density is a dimensionless ratio. When space expands and contracts it does not change the ratio. Therefore, expansion does not equal growth and contraction does not equal decay of matter.

In my mind this refers only to space, not the matter that exists within it?? How else could density as a dimensionless ratio exist? Kg/M^3 is not dimensionless.

For us space is nothing and has no mass – nothing/nothing is dimensionless.

Who’s measuring this respiration anyway, somebody knows space is more than nothing but it aint me.
emanny3003Blocked
Nov 17, 2014, 1:56 AM
Hi Nelsong,

nelsong wrote:

When one area expands another area contracts but it does not necessarily affect density. Density is a dimensionless ratio. When space expands and contracts it does not change the ratio. Therefore, expansion does not equal growth and contraction does not equal decay of matter.

When one area expands another contract, but one are has mass and the other does not. This is significant. It most certainly affects the density of pervaded space.

41:4.2 Gaseous, liquid, and solid states are matters of atomic-molecular relationships, but density is a relationship of space and mass. Density varies directly with the quantity of mass in space and inversely with the amount of space in mass, the space between the central cores of matter and the particles which whirl around these centers as well as the space within such material particles.

It clearly states in this quote that density varies. Density is a relationship of space and mass. Or, Mass/space, and space is not nothing, it is real.

I am not sure what you are getting at with our post.

Manny
emanny3003Blocked
Nov 18, 2014, 12:23 AM

Bonita wrote:

emanny3003 wrote:
But I have dug in my heals on this one and still think that Havona is excluded from space respirations.
Okeydokey then. I wholeheartedly disagree though. If Havona is excluded from space respirations, then it means that Havona has NO space since ALL space respires . . . so the authors claim, that is. And who am I to argue with celestials? But it has indeed been an interesting discussion, so thanks for persevering.

11:6.1 We do not know the actual mechanism of space respiration; we merely observe that all space alternately contracts and expands.

Hi Bonita, I certainly can agree to disagree but I did leave the door open to further discussion should either of us find more to support our respective positions on space respiration and Havona. I had fun and was enjoying our friendly jousting. Please consider the following quotes and my interpretation of them.

12:4.12
You fail to recognize the present outward and uniform expansion of the physical creations of all pervaded space. Your own local creation (Nebadon) participates in this movement of universal outward expansion. The entire seven superuniverses participate in the two-billion-year cycles of space respiration along with the outer regions of the master universe.

Your view was that the celestials failure to mention Havona in the last sentence was an oversight. I disagreed.

42:2.16 5. Havona energy. In concept this narrative has been moving Paradiseward as transmuting space-force has been followed, level by level, to the working level of the energy-power of the universes of time and space. Continuing Paradiseward, there is next encountered a pre-existent phase of energy which is characteristic of the central universe. Here the evolutionary cycle seems to turn back upon itself; energy-power now seems to begin to swing back towards force, but force of a nature very unlike that of space potency and primordial force. Havona energy systems are not dual; they are triune. This is the existential energy domain of the Conjoint Actor, functioning in behalf of the Paradise Trinity.

In the central universe the evolutionary cycle seems to turn back upon itself. The triune energy systems of Havona are very different. Energy-power swings back to force but of a nature unlike that of space potency. Perhaps the space of Havona is different somehow.

29:2.14 All energy is circuited in the Paradise cycle, but the Universe Power Directors direct the force-energies of nether Paradise as they find them modified in the space functions of the central and superuniverses, converting and directing these energies into channels of useful and constructive application. There is a difference between Havona energy and the energies of the superuniverses. The power charge of a superuniverse consists of three phases of energy of ten segregations each. This threefold energy charge spreads throughout the space of the grand universe; it is like a vast moving ocean of energy which engulfs and bathes the whole of each of the seven supercreations.

There is a difference between the Havona energy and the energies of the superuniverses. Here the term ‘grand universe’ excludes Havona. Coincidence or just another oversight or does it represent a little sloppiness on the part of the celestials?

14:3.6 The planetary construction of the Havona spheres is entirely unlike that of the evolutionary worlds and systems of space.

“Systems of space” also excludes Havona. Is this more sloppiness or just a lack of precise qualified language?

15:9.1 The universal circuits of Paradise do actually pervade the realms of the seven superuniverses. These presence circuits are: the personality gravity of the Universal Father, the spiritual gravity of the Eternal Son, the mind gravity of the Conjoint Actor, and the material gravity of the eternal Isle.

Are the universal circuits of Paradise pervading Havona? I thought Havona is directly affected by these gravities by its presence within the central universe and proximity to Paradise and, therefore, not requiring of these ‘circuits’.

12:6.13 The Unqualified Absolute pervades all space.

Is this “all space” unqualified or does it include unpervaded space and the unique space between the dark gravity bodies?
Does it include the space of Havona? What would the Unqualified Absolute be doing in the hourglass space reservoirs of unpervaded space? I think they are referring to the pervaded space of the superuniverses and the outer space levels. But how can we be sure if these spaces are ALL lumped together in some statements and not others? More sloppiness?

12:5.1 Like space, time is a bestowal of Paradise, but not in the same sense, only indirectly. Time comes by virtue of motion and because mind is inherently aware of sequentiality. From a practical viewpoint, motion is essential to time, but there is no universal time unit based on motion except in so far as the Paradise-Havona standard day is arbitrarily so recognized. The totality of space respiration destroys its local value as a time source.

“There is no universal time based on motion EXCEPT in so far as the Paradise-Havona standard day is arbitrarily so recognized.”

A STANDARD DAY seems very fixed to me especially in a perfect universe. The orbits of the perfect spheres of Havona should, by definition, be standard and fixed.

12:2.1 …but from the larger viewpoint the space regions extending beyond the outer borders of the seven superuniverses are generally recognized as constituting the domains of the Unqualified Absolute.

It seems that the Unqualified Absolute has a domain.

3:1.7 Likewise is the First Source and Center potentially present in the Unqualified Absolute, the repository of the uncreated universes of the eternal future.

This statement seems to be inconsistent with The Unqualified Absolute being in unpervaded space and therefore pervading ALL space. Sloppiness or just an oversight? Is there any wiggle room or are all statements literal?

11:6.1 We do not know the actual mechanism of space respiration; we merely observe that all space alternately contracts and expands.

Again we have the phrase “ALL SPACE”. Are we to take this literally or qualify it as we see fit? Perhaps the celestials want us to include the space that is within matter and simultaneously a property of matter. That space should also experience space respirations. The ultimaton contains space and the ultimaton respires. I would agree with that if it excluded matter in Havona, Triata. I do not think that Triata contains space but I do believe the planets of Havona move through space in their orbits around Paradise. This is a difference with a distinction.

42:1.2 Matter — energy — for they are but diverse manifestations of the same cosmic reality, as a universe phenomenon is inherent in the Universal Father. “In him all things consist.” Matter may appear to manifest inherent energy and to exhibit self-contained powers, but the lines of gravity involved in the energies concerned in all these physical phenomena are derived from, and are dependent on, Paradise. The ultimaton, the first measurable form of energy, has Paradise as its nucleus.

I take this entire quote as literally literal, especially the last sentence.
nelsongParticipant
Nov 18, 2014, 9:59 PM
The ultimaton, the first measurable form of energy, has Paradise as its nucleus.

Sorry, I know Emanny3003 and Bonita are discussing this but this statement has always intrigued me – so sorry if this seems to be a silly question:

If the ultimaton is the first form of measurable energy I ask by who’s yard stick? If Paradise is its nucleus then this nucleus has timeless and spaceless properties that we cannot measure and implies the ultimaton incircles whatever aspect/s of Paradise may make up this nucleus – implying a relationship between the two and something that can be measured in relation to Paradise???. Kind of like one more construct similar to the classical atomic structure but much more elusive.

Do you think the revelator is telling us that his measurements are objective?? or do you think he has similar idealist issues to deal with that we have???
emanny3003Blocked
Nov 18, 2014, 11:43 PM

nelsong wrote:

The ultimaton, the first measurable form of energy, has Paradise as its nucleus.
Sorry, I know Emanny3003 and Bonita are discussing this but this statement has always intrigued me – so sorry if this seems to be a silly question:

If the ultimaton is the first form of measurable energy I ask by who’s yard stick? If Paradise is its nucleus then this nucleus has timeless and spaceless properties that we cannot measure and implies the ultimaton incircles whatever aspect/s of Paradise may make up this nucleus – implying a relationship between the two and something that can be measured in relation to Paradise???. Kind of like one more construct similar to the classical atomic structure but much more elusive.

Do you think the revelator is telling us that his measurements are objective?? or do you think he has similar idealist issues to deal with thast we have???

Hi nelsong, no question are silly and I welcome them, after all, this is your thread.

The ultimaton is a particle that is spinning and has respiratory motions just as the Master Universe rotates and respires in 2 billion year cycles. The ultimaton has Paradise as its nucleus just as the Master Universe. All motions must have a center and every center is the same center. The First Source and Center is at the center of ALL things.

Only things can be measured. All measurements are objective. Absolutes are knowable only by Absolute Deity.

Classical atomic structure is inconsistent with TUB. There is even objective evidence that science overlooks because it just does not fit. For instance, The nuclear angular momentum of the electron, proton and neutron are all the same. This tells me that either they are not particles or that the three are all one particle. One particle at different phases of expansion and contraction. This is only possible if the radius of the particles is variable. Science cannot settle on the shifting measurements of the radius of these particles. The radius of the Master Universe is variable and just now growing. Do you see the pattern as it goes from the micro to macrocosmos?

If this structure seems more elusive to the physicist it is because they have made themselves immune to revelation. A particle that spirals in and out is difficult to handle and much more difficult to track.

(1155.4)105:2.11 7. The Universal One of Infinity. I AM as I AM. This is the stasis or self-relationship of Infinity, the eternal fact of infinity-reality and the universal truth of reality-infinity. In so far as this relationship is discernible as personality, it is revealed to the universes in the divine Father of all personality — even of absolute personality. In so far as this relationship is impersonally expressible, it is contacted by the universe as the absolute coherence of pure energy and of pure spirit in the presence of the Universal Father. In so far as this relationship is conceivable as an absolute, it is revealed in the primacy of the First Source and Center; in him we all live and move and have our being, from the creatures of space to the citizens of Paradise; and this is just as true of the master universe as of the infinitesimal ultimaton, just as true of what is to be as of that which is and of what has been.

Manny
nelsongParticipant
Nov 19, 2014, 5:37 PM
All measurements are objective.

Isnt this the old Einstein/Bohr dissagrement?

TUB states the Ultamaton is a measurable form of energy. To me it is the revealators choice of the word “Ultamaton” that implies particle. Our assumptions follow because we are not given much info about the Ultamaton in regard to field, charge, spin, rotation, mass, etc – all the classic descriptions that we have come to be familiar with. The implied particle then fits into this category with what we already know about particles as a concept that we then believe will be understood in the future more clearly. Then with Paradise as its nucleus this adds weight to the particle implication. I can live with that.

For me, the 5th revelation makes the Ultamaton objective but leaves much to the imagination.
emanny3003Blocked
Nov 20, 2014, 12:57 AM
Hi nelsong.

nelsong wrote:

All measurements are objective.

Isnt this the old Einstein/Bohr dissagrement?

TUB states the Ultamaton is a measurable form of energy. To me it is the revealators choice of the word “Ultamaton” that implies particle. Our assumptions follow because we are not given much info about the Ultamaton in regard to field, charge, spin, rotation, mass, etc – all the classic descriptions that we have come to be familiar with. The implied particle then fits into this category with what we already know about particles as a concept that we then believe will be understood in the future more clearly. Then with Paradise as its nucleus this adds weight to the particle implication. I can live with that.

For me, the 5th revelation makes the Ultamaton objective but leaves much to the imagination.

All measurement being objective is part of the arguments between Bohr and Einstein, although the letters written between Born and Einstein are even more revealing of the conflict in the first 30 years of physics in the 20th century. Measurement cannot be anything but objective by definition. The object is what is measurable. You cannot measure the subjective. It is the discussion about quantity and quality.

The microcosmos and attempts to accurately measure it was and is frustrating to scientists. Objects, particles in this micro world behaved very strangely. The Copenhagen Interpretation won out and Einstein soon became a venerated dinosaur. Everything became fuzzy and particle positions become a matter of probabilities. Einstein famously said that “God does not play dice”.

The Ultimaton is indeed a particle. But we are to earn our understanding of what a particle is. TUB tells us exactly how to proceed. TUB tells us how space moves and that space is a property of matter. These are two tremendous clues but we cannot stop there. More thinking leads us to many new consequences to this revelation. These motions are “spiral”. I have been saying this for some time now but I have facing the blows of a brick wall.

One of the central problems in quantum mechanics for over 100 years has been the mystery of superposition. In a nut shell, superposition is the riddle of how a particle can spin in three axes simultaneously. How can a particle exhibit counter rotational motion simultaneously to these spins. Normally, our mind set tells us that if the earth rotates along its axis and we call it the x axis, that it cannot at the same time rotate in a perpendicular y or z axis. The measurements and data found that particle did just that, but how? We could not decide whether light was a wave or a particle or a “wavacle”, a hybrid. Particle physicists were stumped and still are.

TUB came to the rescue but nobody seems to want to believe me. The spiral motion described by space motions is the only motion of a spheroid particle that rotates in three axes simultaneously! The Master Universe rotates in three axes simultaneously. How else could the Holy Trinity project motion if not orthogonally and equally? Picture the particle as a sphere spinning and rapidly growing and shrinking. Its radius rapidly and, in quantum fashion, increasing and decreasing as the sphere spins.

Charge is very misunderstood. Charge comes by way of polarity and space-time energies are dual, thus, north and south poles. This creates a charge which is merely a separation of counter motions. Spheres of space created charge by spinning. The hemispheres have differential masses and a charge is created. The more imbalance of mass across hemispheres the grater the charge “field”. Some planets have greater or lesser magnetic fields depending on mostly the differential masses above and below their equators.

This spiral motion is the only motion that is possible for it allow for superposition. Spiral motions can be superimposed by other spiral motion without interference. You can layers and layers of energy shells to a particle and they spin around each other because of the sinusoidal nature of their waveforms. They just bend around each other with ease.

TUB tells us all of this we just must dig and think!

Triata in Havona energy systems is not dual. The perfect spheres of Havona are not polarized. They do not rotate, by virtue of their day and year being one and the same. They do no breath as our planet does, they do not spiral. They are counterbalanced by the dark gravity bodies and the Paradise presence. Our planets in time-space are dual and they wobble. This is is called precession. Earth’s precession cycle is about 26 years. Dual energy systems are two legged stools. They wobble so there must be a balancing act. This balancing act involves counter rotations and rotations in three axes simultaneously. In Havona, there is stability because they have three legged stools, Triata. Three poles cannot rotate.

Mass is related to inertial rotation which is dependent of the radius of the particle and it angular momentum. Science has failed to realize spiral motion which requires a quantum jump in radius at every orthogonal turn as the particle breaths in and out. I have exposed Bohr’s first mistake in canceling out radius altogether in his first equation. He did unwittingly excluded radius in a false substitution. He would have been far better off if he had included it but he would have never realized that the radius of a particle is continuously and discretely changing. Just as the radius of the Master universe in continuously changing, currently increasing.

These changes in radius of a particle produce a wave phenomenon that is measurable. So far science only recognizes spin. The Earth and all evolutionary worlds and blazing Suns expand and contract. Witness the crustal consequences of this imperceptible breathing of our planet. Earthquakes and volcanic eruptions due to the friction of breathing. The tides as the earth’s volume slightly alternates. Continental drifts and ocean currents. Much of the “breathing” is in the atmosphere and atmospheric currents. These expand and contract more easily than solids or liquids. The is also breathing of the magnetosphere. I can only estimate the breathing cycles of the Earth but would estimate it to be on the order of of days to a week or two. We are revealed that the Sun’s cycles are 11 years. The Master Universe 2 Billion years.

We are only scratching the surface here. Let us discuss this. I welcome questions and comments.

Manny
nelsongParticipant
Nov 20, 2014, 6:06 PM
Hey Manny, I believe you.

You have obviously taken much time and effort to dig these descriptions of the Ultimaton out of TUB. As for me so much goes over my head so it takes quite a bit of effort to keep up.

I must say that because of this I tend to lag and have difficulty evolving out of the dinosaur way of thinking. Going back to those differences between Bohr and Einstein old Albert was legitimately concerned with what is real in quantum mechanics. I dont think this questioning represents a desire on his part to go back in time to the more comfrotable classical concepts, do you?? He asked bluntly: What, in the theory, can be considered real or treated as if it were real? Has this question ever really been answered? I think Bohr side stepped it.

To move on: Maybe you can add another component to the model that you are building up and that goes back in time a bit as well and that is the “principle of locality” such that the interaction between objects gets weaker when the distances separating them get larger.

With Paradise as nucleus to the Ultimaton – do you think this idea has meaning (probably another jurassic idea) with Paradise gravity in mind, and you can throw in timeless and spaceless too???

Do you think the Ultimaton may be the Higgs – the God Particle???
BonitaParticipant
Nov 20, 2014, 7:56 PM

emanny3003 wrote:12:4.12 You fail to recognize the present outward and uniform expansion of the physical creations of all pervaded space. Your own local creation (Nebadon) participates in this movement of universal outward expansion. The entire seven superuniverses participate in the two-billion-year cycles of space respiration along with the outer regions of the master universe.

Your view was that the celestials failure to mention Havona in the last sentence was an oversight. I disagreed.

I don’t remember using the word oversight and I’m pretty sure I didn’t say that. My opinion is that Havona participates in space respiration, and it does so because there is nothing to suggest that there is an absence of space in Havona, and we are told that ALL space respires. Therefore, as long as there is space in Havona, it respires. I have found that the various authors of the UB are very consistent in their presentation. They don’t say something is a fact and then later say it isn’t. If there is an exception, they generally tell us if we are permitted to know.

I don’t think that the revelators have to include Havona in the above quote because they are not talking about Havona. They’re talking about the illusion of the solar system being comparatively stationary in space because of the inability of astronomers to appreciate the outward expansion of space as it respires. The paragraph is about motion within the superuniverses, so why should they include Havona in their explanation? It has nothing to do with the topic, so it is NOT an oversight. I don’t think the celestials would commit an oversight, frankly.
emanny3003Blocked
Nov 21, 2014, 12:14 AM

Bonita wrote:

I don’t remember using the word oversight and I’m pretty sure I didn’t say that.

Hi Bonita,

You are correct that you did not say “oversight” and I apologize that I ascribed it to you. I also do not believe that the celestial authors are subject to oversights or deceit but they are certainly able to make it possible for interesting discussions in forums.

Bonita wrote:

If there is an exception, they generally tell us if we are permitted to know.

Or if we can figure it out for ourselves.

Bonita wrote:

12:4.12 You fail to recognize the present outward and uniform expansion of the physical creations of all pervaded space. Your own local creation (Nebadon) participates in this movement of universal outward expansion. The entire seven superuniverses participate in the two-billion-year cycles of space respiration along with the outer regions of the master universe.

Bonita wrote:

I don’t think that the revelators have to include Havona in the above quote because they are not talking about Havona.

If they are not talking about Havana then they are also not including it in “all prevaded space” either.
emanny3003Blocked
Nov 21, 2014, 1:16 AM

nelsong wrote:

I dont think this questioning represents a desire on his part to go back in time to the more comfrotable classical concepts, do you?? He asked bluntly: What, in the theory, can be considered real or treated as if it were real? Has this question ever really been answered? I think Bohr side stepped it.

Hi nelsong,

I agree that Einstein was never to go back to the classical because he was was the destroyer of it. Einstein was certainly the leading critic of The Copenhagen Interpretation (CI), mostly because he claimed that it was incomplete. The CI claimed that a system is completely described by a wave function but then denies that the wave function is anything more than a theoretical concept, or is at least non-committal about being a discrete entity or a discernable component of some discrete entity. Einstein had some physicist on his side, including Planck and Schrodinger, but Bohr won out because he had many more one his side and he was the more charming of the two.

Bohr did indeed side step many things but he could not explain how light behaved like a wave and a particle at the same time, depending on how one was looking at it. QM turned to probabilities but was bold to proclaim that it completely described the system. He found that nature was no easily fathomable.

You must remember that both Einstein and Bohr were both working in a space-time of 4 dimensions. Nature cannot be described in the framework of 4 dimensions. TUB revealed nature to to built on a framework of 7 dimensions of space-time, not 4.

Space is a 3 dimensional box. A space in primary motion is the box expanding and contracting in discrete jumps called quanta. These quantum discrete jumps occur in instants and ,therefore, outside space and time. (Bohr was right about the “quantum jumps”) Imagine the box instantly becoming bigger or smaller in a flash. You do not actually see it growing or shrinking, it just suddenly happens. This is a 4 dimensional space or hyper-cube. Then you combine this with what TUB calls secondary space motion which is rotation. The box is now turning. It suddenly gets bigger at each quarter turn or smaller if it is contracting. This combinations of motions are accelerated accelerations or time to the power 3. These discrete changes are not perceivable because the nature of the spiral motion makes there continuous by the use of the instants. See a Phi spiral and see how discrete changes in radius produce a smooth continuous curve.

So you see that space-time is 7 dimensions, 4 of space and 3 of time. This is very different from Einstein’s space-time of space 3 and time one. His time was linear and one dimensional. TUB tell us time is circular and 3 dimensional.

Einstein’s space-time has very limited degrees of freedom and cannot describe nature to this day.

TUB revealed a 7 dimensional space-time that has infinite degrees of freedom and does describe the nature we see. So you see, “its about time its about space, about two men in the strangest place”. I little humor if that’s OK.

The reason I know this is because I asked. It came to me (praise God) that the two motions of space were describing a logarithmic spiral. This spiral motion, if applied to a particle, explains the unexplained in QM. With four dimensions of space-time it is impossible for a particle to have more than one axis of rotation. In 7 dimensional space-time it is possible to have axes of rotations in an infinite number of axes. Infinite degrees of freedom. Counter rotational motions are also permitted. I have correlated the logarithmic spiral to the eternal ellipse and am waitin for the right time to explain it.

Paradise must center all things because it must center all motion. Motion of which I have described must “utilize” the eternity of Paradise to “perform” the quantum leaps necessary to maintain the universes as ongoing concerns.

This infinite degrees of freedom can and does allow for the infinite diversity potential in nature.

nelsong wrote:

Do you think the Ultimaton may be the Higgs – the God Particle???

No, I do not think so. The Higgs Boson is a money pit. Paradise is the source of all mass in the universe. I seriously doubt that they will find Paradise in a supercollider.

Manny
BonitaParticipant
Nov 21, 2014, 2:25 PM

emanny3003 wrote:

If they are not talking about Havana then they are also not including it in “all prevaded space” either.

I’m pretty sure we established that Havana is part of pervaded space by the following quote:

12:1.3 Proceeding outward from Paradise through the horizontal extension of pervaded space, the master universe is existent in six concentric ellipses, the space levels encircling the central Isle: 12:1.4 1. The Central Universe – Havona. 12:1.5 2. The Seven Superuniverses. 12:1.6 3. The First Outer Space Level. 12:1.7 4. The Second Outer Space Level. 12:1.8 5. The Third Outer Space Level. 12:1.9 6. The Fourth and Outermost Space Level.

It seems as though I’ve reproduced this quote several times now and I don’t think I will change my mind about it. It clearly says that there is a horizontal extension of PERVADED SPACE proceeding outward from Paradise and it includes six SPACE levels, the first one being HAVONA. I don’t see how you can read it any other way than that Havona is part of pervaded space and it is a space level.

Now . . . if Havona is part of pervaded space and is an actual space level, it has to respire. ALL space participates in space respiration.

11:6.1 We do not know the actual mechanism of space respiration; we merely observe that all space alternately contracts and expands.

I don’t think it can be any clearer than that. You’re certainly free to have other opinions, but I can’t see how you could possibly justify them given the clarity provided by the above quotes.
BonitaParticipant
Nov 21, 2014, 2:44 PM

emanny3003 wrote: 42:2.16 5. Havona energy. In concept this narrative has been moving Paradiseward as transmuting space-force has been followed, level by level, to the working level of the energy-power of the universes of time and space. Continuing Paradiseward, there is next encountered a pre-existent phase of energy which is characteristic of the central universe. Here the evolutionary cycle seems to turn back upon itself; energy-power now seems to begin to swing back towards force, but force of a nature very unlike that of space potency and primordial force. Havona energy systems are not dual; they are triune. This is the existential energy domain of the Conjoint Actor, functioning in behalf of the Paradise Trinity.

In the central universe the evolutionary cycle seems to turn back upon itself. The triune energy systems of Havona are very different. Energy-power swings back to force but of a nature unlike that of space potency. Perhaps the space of Havona is different somehow.

The quote is about ENERGY swinging back towards force (Unqualified Absolute). Space is NOT energy. Space respires but energy does not respire. Energy goes along for the ride but does not, in and of itself, respire. It doesn’t matter what kind of energy is in space. It can be this energy or that energy, in this space level or that space level; but, the type of energy and the level of space it is in does not affect space respiration at all. Space respiration is independent of the energy and matter that happens to be residing inside of it. And, if it is true that the space inside of Havona is different from all other space (which we are never told), it would still respire, since ALL space respires.

As a reference, here are the definitions of energy, power and force from the Foreword:

0:6.2-7 Energy we use as an all-inclusive term applied to spiritual, mindal, and material realms. Force is also thus broadly used. Power is ordinarily limited to the designation of the electronic level of material or linear-gravity-responsive matter in the grand universe. Power is also employed to designate sovereignty. We cannot follow your generally accepted definitions of force, energy, and power. There is such paucity of language that we must assign multiple meanings to these terms.

Physical energy is a term denoting all phases and forms of phenomenal motion, action, and potential.

In discussing physical-energy manifestations, we generally use the terms cosmic force, emergent energy, and universe power. These are often employed as follows:

1. Cosmic force embraces all energies deriving from the Unqualified Absolute but which are as yet unresponsive to Paradise gravity.

2. Emergent energy embraces those energies which are responsive to Paradise gravity but are as yet unresponsive to local or linear gravity. This is the pre-electronic level of energy-matter.

3. Universe power includes all forms of energy which, while still responding to Paradise gravity, are directly responsive to linear gravity. This is the electronic level of energy-matter and all subsequent evolutions thereof.
tasParticipant
Nov 21, 2014, 3:43 PM

nelsong wrote:

Do you think the Ultimaton may be the Higgs – the God Particle???

It doesn’t work out that the Higgs would be an ultimaton, since the Higgs is a very massive particle and the ultimaton is described as 1/100th part of an electron, which itself is a very light particle. If an ultimaton is like a grain of sand the Higgs is like a boulder at least.

Or to put numbers to it, a Higgs is about 250,000 times more massive than an electron. If you’d consider an ultimaton about 1/100 the mass of an electron, the Higgs is 25 million times more massive than an ultimaton.
emanny3003Blocked
Nov 21, 2014, 4:55 PM
Hi Bonita,

I will agree to disagree. You provide good arguments but consider this.

11:9.2 Paradise is the geographic center of infinity; it is not a part of universal creation, not even a real part of the eternal Havona universe. We commonly refer to the central Isle as belonging to the divine universe, but it really does not. Paradise is an eternal and exclusive existence.

The celestials admitted that they commonly refer to the central Isle as belonging to the divine universe, but it really does not.

I don’t not consider this to be deceitful or an oversight or sloppy in any way.

Is it possible that they commonly refer to the Havona as belong to the grand universe, but it really does not?

I know that you no longer participate in that, “other forum”, but please look at a diagram that Tigran posted today and challenged me to interpret it. I invite all to do this. It is quite revealing.

Space-time creations are hyperbolic, the “V-shaped” pervaded space.

Havona is exclusive and its space is not hyperbolic but PARABOLIC! This type of space cannot participate in space respiration. In analyzing the conic sections, there are infinite ellipses and infinite hyperbolas but only one parabola. There is only one Havana. There is only one Paradise and only one perfect proportion of that singular ellipse.

Please read my interpretation of Tigran’s diagram.

Manny

PS Manny aka loucol (Louis) Emmanuel is my middle name and my mother calls me Manny.
BonitaParticipant
Nov 21, 2014, 5:48 PM

emanny3003 wrote:

Is it possible that they commonly refer to the Havona as belong to the grand universe, but it really does not?

Why would they make a list then? It seems rather deliberate to me. Six space levels with the first being the Central Universe. Also, the phrase “Divine Universe” is referring to that other than the non-divine universes, aka, seven superuniverses. Both Havona and Paradise are Divine, and that is why they are sometimes lumped together.

emanny3003 wrote:

Havona is exclusive and its space is not hyperbolic but PARABOLIC! This type of space cannot participate in space respiration.

But who says that parabolic space cannot respire? It doesn’t matter what shape space takes, it respires. All space respires, even hyperbolicparaboloid space. And no, I will not go to that other forum. I’ve been kicked off it three times, my account was eliminated and I’m done with it; I want nothing to do with it thanks very much.
emanny3003Blocked
Nov 21, 2014, 7:24 PM

Bonita wrote:

emanny3003 wrote:
Havona is exclusive and its space is not hyperbolic but PARABOLIC! This type of space cannot participate in space respiration.

But who says that parabolic space cannot respire? It doesn’t matter what shape space takes, it respires. All space respires, even hyperbolicparaboloid space. And no, I will not go to that other forum.

Hi Bonita,

At least I got you to consider the possibility of parabolic space.

Hyperbolic space can respire because there are an infinite number of hyperbolas. This gives them “breathing room”. Furthermore, hyperbolas can sit orthogonal to circles. This is space-time.

The parabola is alone, unique and has a focus outside the center. The focus of a hyperbola (space) is the center, Paradise.

A parabola cannot be orthogonal to the circle. That is why Havona is not a time creation. Havona lies in a nonmoving parabolic space.

I’ll try to get a visual to assist in my explanation.

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