↗ Live site
Preview: a read-only copy of the forum. To post or reply, use the current forum.

Architectural Worlds

86 posts · 6 participants · started Aug 15, 2022, 6:09 PM

  1. If the celestial object we know as “The Moon” really is a very small architectural world, this quote may be relevant.

    Excuse me?  Hmmmm…..

    Burroughs Pellucidar fantasy!  An old favorite of mine.  And pure fiction.

    So, a study and review of the UB should certainly dispel any such notion or “theory” I would think.

    https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/search?keys=Architectural+&op=Search

    Architectural Spheres are quite rare (compared to suns, planets, and moons), and specifically for universe administration, training of celestials and ascenders, power centers, and headquarters worlds.  They are huge in scale and highly functional in their purposes.

    Those in Nebadon were completed billions of years prior to our own solar system was formed and stabilized as a solar system with planets and moons, as I understand the Papers to teach.

    Perhaps human science has actually managed to postulate the moon’s likely origin and geological formation and the mass required for its gravitational effects, as with so many trillions of other evolutionary moons, planets, etc.?  A review of our own geological and astronomical origins can be found in Paper 57.

    I also doubt architectural worlds are hollow either.  Such engineering is intriguing to ponder but I rather think such spheres, designed and constructed by minds, science, engineering, materials, life forces, and physics we cannot imagine are also organic biospheres (not evolutionary, but interactive and interdependent) systems of life and living energies/systems that are quite ‘organic’.

    Fantastic spheres of glorious gardens and living architectural splendor.  Nothing like we might imagine I think.

    Just my own speculation of course.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  2. If I told you there is scientific evidence to suggest the moon is hollow, would you believe it? Or would you prefer to read about it in The Sixth Epochal Revelation because a very small architectural world may be a lot closer than we realize. If this is true, it may explain where The Urantia Book really came from and we probably won’t be allowed to leave our sandbox unless or until we learn to let go of our war-like tendencies.

    Me here: So…please share with us the “scientific evidence” you insinuate, but do not offer or post, before we are asked to believe or not such a claim/challenge.

    “...where the Urantia Book really came from...”

    Seriously?

    Holy Moly…

    Oh dear.

    So…the Urantia Papers do not come from whence the authors claim?

     

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  3. Peace Brother. I will not argue or strive with you because the Spirit of God dwelling in me honors and respects the Spirit of God dwelling in you. And that’s no speculation.

    Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.

  4. Insinuation and innuendo are the primary tools of yellow journalism (and gossip), not speculation.

    Not conducive to the serious discussion and consideration of any text, certainly not the UB.

    It causes strife.  Indeed, so.

     

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  5. This issue is very troublesome for me.  Comparative analysis is always welcome when presented as opinion or as inquiry, especially with evidence claimed actually being submitted from its source for evaluation and comparison to the Papers.

    Random rumors from unnamed sources which contradict the UB and have no relevance to the topic are an unfortunate intrusion.  Far worse than mere distraction and irrelevancy.

    Or perhaps I only grow cranky and even more dense as I age….

    From Weezer in Steal Magnolias:

    “….I’m not as sweet as I used to be.”

     

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  6. Affirmative may be justified Take from one, give to another The goal is to be unified Take my hand, be my brother The payment silenced the masses Sanctified by oppression Unity took a back seat Sliding further into regression
    One, oh one The only way is one One, oh one The only way is one
    I feel angry, I feel helpless Want to change the world, yeah I feel violent, I feel alone Don’t try and change my mind, no
    Society blind by color Why hold down one to raise another? Discrimination now on both sides Seeds of hate blossom further The world is heading for mutiny When all we want is unity We may rise and fall But in the end we meet our fate together
    One, oh one The only way is one One, oh one The only way is one
    I feel angry, I feel helpless Want to change the world, yeah I feel violent, I feel alone Don’t try and change my mind, no
    Songwriters: Scott A. Stapp, Mark T. Tremonti. For non-commercial use only.
    These are the lyrics to the song “One” by Creed. Individually, we have the power to change ourselves. Collectively, we have the power to change our civilization. We have it within us to succeed. If this weren’t true, Christ Michael would not have chosen our world for His final bestowal.
    Me here: Michael had 10,000,000 worlds (potentially) like Urantia to choose from.  He did not choose our world due to any mortal potential or destiny unavailable to the other millions of inhabited worlds of Nebadon or 7 trillion such worlds in the 7 Super Universes.
    All mortals “…have the power to change ourselves. Collectively, we have the power to change our civilization.”
    Truly it can be said that, collectively, the tadpoles of time have the power to change eternity and even Deity by our ascendence and experiential perfecting in time.
    All tadpoles, everywhere.
    Same is true for our celestial cousins who likewise attain experiential wisdom and contribute to the destiny of potential.
    There are specific reasons our world was so blessed by that choice.  Indeed.  Michael has a long reputation for seeking out the most needy and desperate of worlds for his bestowals, often in the grip of those few, even so very rare, rebellions within Nebadon’s borders.
    It seems Urantia may well have been selected due to its difficulty of assignment and local need primarily.   A universe example, perhaps, of the power of love to stop iniquity and overwhelm the effects of sin.  The Way of Faith.
    The tadpoles way???  I think so, yes.
    Perhaps we might return to the topic of Architectural Worlds…and their nature and purpose in the perfecting of the imperfect in time.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  7. I also doubt architectural worlds are hollow either.  Such engineering is intriguing to ponder but I rather think such spheres, designed and constructed by minds, science, engineering, materials, life forces, and physics we cannot imagine are also organic biospheres (not evolutionary, but interactive and interdependent) systems of life and living energies/systems that are quite ‘organic’.

    Me here:  So…I really need to reconsider the definition(s) of and my assumptions about “hollow” and “organic”.

    Certainly the architectural worlds don’t have the same construction or contents or ingredients or geological or gravitational limitations of any evolutionary material world.  So what is hollow?

    Do we mean emptiness surrounded by a spherical shell, like an eggshell?  But the egg is not hollow.  Or like a balloon which is?  Or, is it?  Hollow…but not empty?

    And organic?  I think so, yes.  These worlds took a long, long time to create/organize/construct.  Ages we are told.  The manipulation of elements combined in stable relationships of function and form.

    Architectural does not mean inert or mechanical or inorganic.

    32:2.3 (358.5)The first completed act of physical creation in Nebadon consisted in the organization of the headquarters world, the architectural sphere of Salvington, with its satellites. From the time of the initial moves of the power centers and physical controllers to the arrival of the living staff on the completed spheres of Salvington, there intervened a little over one billion years of your present planetary time. The construction of Salvington was immediately followed by the creation of the one hundred headquarters worlds of the projected constellations and the ten thousand headquarters spheres of the projected local systems of planetary control and administration, together with their architectural satellites. Such architectural worlds are designed to accommodate both physical and spiritual personalities as well as the intervening morontia or transition stages of being.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  8. Certainly the architectural worlds don’t have the same construction or contents or ingredients or geological or gravitational limitations of any evolutionary material world.  So what is hollow?

    I don’t know what you mean by gravitational limitations. The spheres do have double the number of elements of the material worlds.

    48:1.3 [Part II]
    All of these worlds are architectural spheres, and they have just double the number of elements of the evolved planets. Such made-to-order worlds not only abound in the heavy metals and crystals, having one hundred physical elements, but likewise have exactly one hundred forms of a unique energy organization called morontia material. The Master Physical Controllers and the Morontia Power Supervisors are able so to modify the revolutions of the primary units of matter and at the same time so to transform these associations of energy as to create this new substance.
    Paul wrote of this enduring substance.
    48:1.7 [Part II]
    Paul learned of the existence of the morontia worlds and of the reality of morontia materials, for he wrote, “They have in heaven a better and more enduring substance.” And these morontia materials are real, literal, even as in “the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.” And each of these marvelous spheres is “a better country, that is, a heavenly one.”
  9. 45:0.1[Part II]

    THE administrative center of Satania consists of a cluster of architectural spheres, fifty-seven in number — Jerusem itself, the seven major satellites, and the forty-nine subsatellites. Jerusem, the system capital, is almost one hundred times the size of Urantia, although its gravity is a trifle less. Jerusem’s major satellites are the seven transition worlds, each of which is about ten times as large as Urantia, while the seven subsatellites of these transition spheres are just about the size of Urantia.
    Okay. I find this bit rather intriguing: ” Jerusem, the system capital, is almost one hundred times the size of Urantia, although its gravity is a trifle less.” Anyone reading along care to explain this?
  10. I don’t know what you mean by gravitational limitations. The spheres do have double the number of elements of the material worlds.

    I meant formed by the aggregation of matter and held in an orbital gravitational grip by a star/sun.  But at best I think I may only be half right (or less!):  architectural worlds do not orbit stars but may very well be formed in part by aggregation due to gravitational effects.

     

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  11. Mara,

    Jerusem was constructed with vastly different morontia material with 100 elements. Even though much larger than Urantia, it weighs less? Who is measuring planetary and sphere weights?

  12. 45:0.1[Part II]

    THE administrative center of Satania consists of a cluster of architectural spheres, fifty-seven in number — Jerusem itself, the seven major satellites, and the forty-nine subsatellites. Jerusem, the system capital, is almost one hundred times the size of Urantia, although its gravity is a trifle less. Jerusem’s major satellites are the seven transition worlds, each of which is about ten times as large as Urantia, while the seven subsatellites of these transition spheres are just about the size of Urantia.
    Okay. I find this bit rather intriguing: ” Jerusem, the system capital, is almost one hundred times the size of Urantia, although its gravity is a trifle less.” Anyone reading along care to explain this?
    I look forward to a more educated perspective than my own.  Planets have a gravitational effect based on mass and density, each being different from all others, size being less of an influence I think.
    If true, then Jerusem would be much larger but have less density and/or mass to have lower surface gravity.  So a 175 lb. person on Urantia would weigh a “trifle less” on Jerusem.
    Such information makes me more certain architectural worlds are not “hollow”.  If mass and density create surface gravity on architectural worlds, I should think such spheres would have both mass and density.
    But that is an uneducated presumption.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  13. Mara, Jerusem was constructed with vastly different morontia material with 100 elements. Even though much larger than Urantia, it weighs less? Who is measuring planetary and sphere weights?

    Haha LOL!!  Celestial scientists have even greater curiosity and far better instruments than us mortals.  And we measure everything!

    The surface gravity, or relative weight of an object on the surface of different spheres is not the same as the weight of the sphere itself.

    I think a relevant question is if surface gravity on architectural worlds is achieved similarly to evolutionary worlds?  Size, mass, density?

    If so, then Jerusem being 100X bigger than Urantia and the satellites being 10X bigger with similar surface gravity as Urantia means those worlds have different densities relative to size.  This is common even in our own solar system.

    I imagine everything is measured and calculated throughout all of creation to the infinitesimal degree, to further perfect the causes and effects in time and space!

    Minutiae matters big time in physics!

    Consider the time frames the creators and creation managers work with.  And the forces and evolutionary time requirements.

    41:4.2 (459.6)Gaseous, liquid, and solid states are matters of atomic-molecular relationships, but density is a relationship of space and mass. Density varies directly with the quantity of mass in space and inversely with the amount of space in mass, the space between the central cores of matter and the particles which whirl around these centers as well as the space within such material particles.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  14. Regarding the creation of a local universe and therefore the creation of architectural worlds, for review, consider this: “When energy-matter has attained a certain stage in mass materialization, a Paradise Creator Son appears upon the scene, accompanied by a Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit.”

     

    32:1.5 [Part II]
    . . . Simultaneously with the arrival of the Creator Son, work is begun upon the architectural sphere which is to become the headquarters world of the projected local universe. For long ages such a local creation evolves, suns become stabilized, planets form and swing into their orbits, while the work of creating the architectural worlds which are to serve as constellation headquarters and system capitals continues.
    32:2.3 [Part II]
    The first completed act of physical creation in Nebadon consisted in the organization of the headquarters world, the architectural sphere of Salvington, with its satellites. From the time of the initial moves of the power centers and physical controllers to the arrival of the living staff on the completed spheres of Salvington, there intervened a little over one billion years of your present planetary time. The construction of Salvington was immediately followed by the creation of the one hundred headquarters worlds of the projected constellations and the ten thousand headquarters spheres of the projected local systems of planetary control and administration, together with their architectural satellites. Such architectural worlds are designed to accommodate both physical and spiritual personalities as well as the intervening morontia or transition stages of being.
    It took a little over one billion years of our time to get the architectural worlds and their satellites built out.  “And then, when such a universe has been so completely organized and so repletely manned, does the Creator Son enter into the Father’s proposal to create mortal man in their divine image.” 32:2.8   To us a  billion years is a  very long time. Cosmically, it’s probably quick.
    [I forgot I posted some of these references previously.]
  15. Ok. It’s taken awhile to find this. Is it controversial? Yes, it is. But it does analyze the scientific evidence I have mentioned in this discussion.

    I recommend a book called:

    Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA

    by Richard C. Hoagland and Mike Bara

    Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.

  16. Gaseous, liquid, and solid states are matters of atomic-molecular relationships, but density is a relationship of space and mass. Density varies directly with the quantity of mass in space and inversely with the amount of space in mass, the space between the central cores of matter and the particles which whirl around these centers as well as the space within such material particles. 41:4.2 (459.6)

    I am trying so hard to explain this, but it’s difficult to do with words alone. Also, I have not thought in scientific terms for many years. The matter we know as part of our everyday mortal experience is very dense. It has a relatively high amount of mass for the amount of space it takes up. The easiest way is to call it “quantum state” of matter. As a point of reference, normal matter is quantum state N=1.

    The celestial objects native science calls white dwarf stars, black dwarf stars, neutron stars, and pulsars are even more dense having a quantum state N<1. Native science calls this degenerate matter. Take, for example, an object the size and mass of the sun then condense it down to the size of Urantia. It would have intense gravity on the surface. This might give you some idea of what I’m trying to describe.

    Morontia matter is more diffuse. It takes up much more space for a given amount of mass. Take something the size and mass of Urantia and expand it to the size of the sun. It would have much less gravity at the surface. Point of reference quantum state N=2 or even higher. But this is not a function of protons, neutrons, or electrons. It’s all about the ultimaton and how it is arranged as the basic unit of matter.

    My understanding of particle physics is mediocre at best. But I will make the attempt, even though I will probably get it wrong.

    One ultimaton by itself is just that: 1 ultimaton. [like a single musical note]

    2 ultimatons huddled together by harmonic resonance [like a power chord or musical fifth] is called (I believe) a tau neutrino.

    3 ultimatons huddled together [like a major or minor chord] is called a neutrino.

    7 ultimatons huddled together is called a photon. [like seven whole notes in one specific octave of the musical scale]

    100 ultimatons huddled together in a very specific arrangement is called an electron.

    183,600 ultimatons huddled together is called a proton. [the arrangement of an electron repeated 1836 times within the same space]

    210,000 ultimatons huddled together is called a neutron. [the arrangement of an electron repeated 2100 times within the same space]

    But all of these arrangements are a function of the manner in which the ultimaton achieves harmonic resonance by the velocity it rotates on its axis and the velocity it revolves around other ultimatons. At the smallest possible size, it becomes a complex symphony of energy which could be described as an orchestra.

    What if gravity on architectural worlds is generated by artificial means? They could be hollow or any size required by the “unseen” spiritual administration of a far-flung universe. For example, a Planetary Prince might be given a very small architectural world as the location of his administration orbiting the world of his assignment.

    Where is Jerusem relative to Urantia according to The Urantia Book? It’s difficult to describe “location” of morontia objects because matter is so diffuse compared to ours in that realm. On other threads, I use a “hotel” analogy to describe it.

    The point where the ultimaton becomes real is the First Floor of The Orvonton Hotel. [the first dimension]

    The point where ultimatons fit together forming atoms and molecules is The Second Floor of The Orvonton Hotel. [the second dimension]

    The point where atoms and molecules fit together forming solids, liquids, and gases making our everyday reality is The Third Floor of The Orvonton Hotel. [the third dimension]

    From our present level of reality, Jerusem is on The Fourth Floor of The Orvonton Hotel. [the fourth dimension]

    Edentia is on The Fifth Floor. [the fifth dimension]

    Salvington is on The Sixth Floor. [the sixth dimension]

    Uversa is on The Seventh Floor. [the seventh dimension]

    At each successively higher level of reality, the universe looks vastly different. As mortal beings of the third dimension, we are constrained to view reality from The Third Floor of The Nebadon Suite of The Orvonton Hotel. The arrangement is similar to concentric rings where the highest level envelopes or encompasses all the lower ones.  All of this is just my opinion. Nothing more.

     

    Anyone with a mind has an opinion and that opinion is a reflection of that mind.

  17. Ok. It’s taken awhile to find this. Is it controversial? Yes, it is. But it does analyze the scientific evidence I have mentioned in this discussion. I recommend a book called:

    Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA

    by Richard C. Hoagland and Mike Bara

    See:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_C._Hoagland

    It’s interesting what some people come to believe.   Like some of us UB readers for example! Reality is fascinating and surprising.

    But these particulier beliefs about origins and history certainly contradict the presentations in the Papers.  Clearly.

    Reality is not defined by anyone’s beliefs about or perspective of reality.  Reality is actually indifferent to all beliefs and cosmology constructs about reality.

     

    We may choose what we believe, but we cannot choose what is real.  Even the tadpole’s mind is wired to be inherently curious and to speculate and conjecture and create explanations for everything, no matter how fanciful or superstitious or illogical or even irrational.

    Thankfully, it is our faith response to our Deity Connections that assures our destiny, and not our beliefs or our ignorance.  Praise God for that reality!

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  18. But these particulier beliefs about origins and history certainly contradict the presentations in the Papers.

    Sincere students of the Urantia Papers each have a very personal and unique experience as they digest the text.  Some come to believe the claims the book makes about it’s origins and content and authority.  Certainly not all do so.  Not all students agree as to the meaning of some text and not all agree as to the value and importance of the UB.

    But all students should be able to agree on its contents.  It says what it says and it doesn’t say what it doesn’t say.  What the UB teaches is the focus of any UB study group.  Any other reality perspective or cosmologies must be compared and contrasted to the Papers for those to have any relevance in a UB study group.

    There are so many examples of mortal, historical and current science, religion, and philosophy which support and confirm the text or disagree in general or in detail.  And then there is that which is but a contradiction to the reality perspective presented by the UB.

    57:6.1 (657.4)Subsequent to the birth of the solar system a period of diminishing solar disgorgement ensued. Decreasingly, for another five hundred thousand years, the sun continued to pour forth diminishing volumes of matter into surrounding space. But during these early times of erratic orbits, when the surrounding bodies made their nearest approach to the sun, the solar parent was able to recapture a large portion of this meteoric material.

    57:6.2 (657.5)The planets nearest the sun were the first to have their revolutions slowed down by tidal friction. Such gravitational influences also contribute to the stabilization of planetary orbits while acting as a brake on the rate of planetary-axial revolution, causing a planet to revolve ever slower until axial revolution ceases, leaving one hemisphere of the planet always turned toward the sun or larger body, as is illustrated by the planet Mercury and by the moon, which always turns the same face toward Urantia.

    57:6.3 (657.6)When the tidal frictions of the moon and the earth become equalized, the earth will always turn the same hemisphere toward the moon, and the day and month will be analogous—in length about forty-seven days. When such stability of orbits is attained, tidal frictions will go into reverse action, no longer driving the moon farther away from the earth but gradually drawing the satellite toward the planet. And then, in that far-distant future when the moon approaches to within about eleven thousand miles of the earth, the gravity action of the latter will cause the moon to disrupt, and this tidal-gravity explosion will shatter the moon into small particles, which may assemble about the world as rings of matter resembling those of Saturn or may be gradually drawn into the earth as meteors.

    57:6.4 (658.1)If space bodies are similar in size and density, collisions may occur. But if two space bodies of similar density are relatively unequal in size, then, if the smaller progressively approaches the larger, the disruption of the smaller body will occur when the radius of its orbit becomes less than two and one-half times the radius of the larger body. Collisions among the giants of space are rare indeed, but these gravity-tidal explosions of lesser bodies are quite common.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  19. So…to be clear…the UB teaches that our moon is an evolutionary sphere formed by and during the astrophysical and geological local solar system origination and not a Nebadon architectural sphere, all of which were formed billions of years prior to our solar system creation cycle.  And neither are any other moons or planets in our solar system architectural spheres.  Urantia’s moon is also not hollow.

    And no aliens have inhabited our solar system or our planet.  Or not any aliens defined or described as mortals from other material, evolutionary worlds arriving by mechanical space craft.

    Celestials are not “aliens” by definition.  And the Prince’s staff of 100 volunteers were also morontial and did not arrive in spaceships.

    There are (or will eventually be) 7 trillion evolutionary worlds with mortals on them.  Every such world is inhabited by our tadpole cousins who might be considered “aliens”.  None of those populations have inhabited our world or solar system.

    Caveat:  The Urantia Papers do tell us of a world of “non-breathers” whose proximity might surprise us.  Lots for speculation there!  See Paper 49, Section 3.

    49:3.6 (564.2)You would be more than interested in the planetary conduct of this type of mortal because such a race of beings inhabits a sphere in close proximity to Urantia.

    "Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."

  20. Sincere students of the Urantia Papers each have a very personal and unique experience as they digest the text.

    I’m glad you pointed this out.

    141:5.1 [Part IV]
    One of the most eventful of all the evening conferences at Amathus was the session having to do with the discussion of spiritual unity. James Zebedee had asked, “Master, how shall we learn to see alike and thereby enjoy more harmony among ourselves?” When Jesus heard this question, he was stirred within his spirit, so much so that he replied: “James, James, when did I teach you that you should all see alike? I have come into the world to proclaim spiritual liberty to the end that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God. I do not desire that social harmony and fraternal peace shall be purchased by the sacrifice of free personality and spiritual originality. What I require of you, my apostles, is spirit unity — and that you can experience in the joy of your united dedication to the wholehearted doing of the will of my Father in heaven. You do not have to see alike or feel alike or even think alike in order spiritually to be alike. Spiritual unity is derived from the consciousness that each of you is indwelt, and increasingly dominated, by the spirit gift of the heavenly Father. Your apostolic harmony must grow out of the fact that the spirit hope of each of you is identical in origin, nature, and destiny.

     

Reply on the current forum

↑ Back to top